Will the pause continue?

Great piece from Citylab this morning:

This Housing Price Spike Is Different

Housing prices are cooking. Across the nation, the price of homes is rising faster than the rate of inflation—in some places by a factor of three. That’s true of high-cost cities such as Seattle and San Francisco and lower-cost cities such as Charlotte and Tampa alike. And the overheated market for homes is costing the middle class the American dream.

Nationwide, the price for homes is approaching the zenith seen in 2006, just before the market fell into a foreclosure crisis and the economy sank into the Great Recession. No major city appears to be spared from these rising temperatures. New highs or near highs in Los Angeles and Washington, D.C., are mirrored by similar (relative) highs for Cleveland and Chicago.

But there are key differences between the housing peak in 2006 and the housing peak today. This surge in housing prices is not necessarily evidence for a bubble—much less any indication that a bubble is about to burst. Understanding the difference is critical to knowing how high housing costs may affect the economy going forward.

Late in July, the S&P CoreLogic Case–Shiller U.S. National Home Price NSA Index tracked a 6.4 percent annual gain in home prices for May 2018. This index has recorded year-over-year increases of at least 5 percent every month since August 2016—a sign of the strength of the recovery. Len Kiefer, deputy chief economist for Freddie Mac, shared a visualization for these data; in Seattle, which saw a year-over-year price increase of 13.6 percent for May, home prices are already well above the 2006 high-water mark.

But since most workers aren’t earning 6 percent raises year after year, eventually this party has to come to an end. (Indeed, for four-fifths of privately employed workers, wages are actually falling.) Housing prices will stabilize or soften because they have nowhere else to go. The prevailing trend is unsustainable. “If something can’t go on forever, sooner or later it will end,” says David Blitzer, managing director for S&P Dow Jones Indices. With mortgage rates and prices rising, sales in both new homes and existing homes are starting to slow. “Either buyers have gone for the summer, because it’s too hot to look at housing, or they’re pausing to see what’s going on,” Blitzer says. “If the pause continues, you’ll see sales go down.”

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, Employment, Housing Bubble, Housing Recovery. Bookmark the permalink.

129 Responses to Will the pause continue?

  1. Yo! says:

    Demand for housing is accelerating. Millenialls are aging into household formation. More renters aspire to be owners. Problem is not enough housing is being built in the neighborhoods where people want to liv today. Expect outsized home price growth to last, especially on West Coast and in Sunbelt. Not a lot of houses getting built in N.J. burbs but doesn’t matter because not a lot of people want to live in these towns.

  2. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I think I just figured out this second what this is Alex Jones cross-platform ban is all about!!!

    This is an attempt, a lure, to draw in Trump to Alex Jones’ defense and than bang the fuc.k out of Trump on MSM when he does, tying him to Alex Jones forever. Alex Jones is the new David Duke, if they can just get Trump to take the bait. Probably would work the same way against Fox News, but they aren’t taking the bait either.

  3. grim says:

    We’re still seeing big infill across Northeastern NJ:

    https://www.nj.com/data/2018/04/the_11_towns_leading_njs_rebound_in_new_home_construction.html

    Morris County, Middlesex, Bergen – these are not gold coast areas, yet they are seeing relatively strong building.

    You can not compare these to markets with massive amounts of easily developable space, and very low land costs.

  4. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    How much will NJ benefit if Cuomo signs that stupid bereavement leave bill? Hell, that might cause a bunch of small NY businesses along I-84 to move to Sussex, bringing new resident workers in tow?

  5. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Newark Gets Ready to Pitch Amazon a $1 Billion Tax Package for HQ2

    As the battle to land Amazon.com Inc.’s second headquarters comes down to the wire, one of the less glamorous contenders is poised to add as much as $1 billion in tax breaks to its pitch.

    Newark, New Jersey, is expected to approve the big bag of cash, part of a $7 billion package the state is dangling in front of Amazon to capture HQ2, as it’s called. A trio of ordinances up for adoption at a city council meeting Wednesday would give the payroll-tax exemptions to any company that creates 30,000 jobs and invests $3 billion in New Jersey’s largest city over the next 20 years. The ordinances passed the council unanimously when they came up for first consideration last month.

    The inducements would be applicable to other companies should Amazon decide to build its $5 billion campus elsewhere, said Aisha Glover, president of the Newark Community Economic Development Corp., which oversees business opportunities.

    “This is not Amazon legislation,” Glover said in an interview. “This is for transformative projects.”

    It is certainly one of the largest known subsidy packages offered by the 20 places on Amazon’s shortlist, which include Los Angeles, Denver, Miami, New York, Boston, three parts of the Washington, D.C., region and, outside the U.S., Toronto. Most of the candidates haven’t disclosed their offers.

  6. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Maybe Bezos will buy the Star Ledger too?

  7. grim says:

    NJ democrats already bought the media by passing their newspaper subsidy legislation. The Star Ledger has been renamed to новый джерси товарищ.

  8. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Money is money. I can’t stand this “real wealth” crap. If you are living a lifestyle that 90% of the population in the country can only dream about, you are wealthy! You can’t take the money with you when you die, so why do people have a problem with people who like to enjoy it? Should they be saving and investing everything at the expense of life?

    Why do some people idolize the millionaire that live like they only earn 50,000 a year. They accrue massive wealth, which is cool, but then they die. Wtf make all that money if you never enjoy it?

    “Real wealth creates time and space. Not a 3200 sq ft contractor special that needs two 1%er paychecks derived from 12 hour door-to-door days and de minimis savings in hour long traffic jams wallowing in the masses.

    But ask our resident genius on wealth. You know, the twit who self admittedly isn’t there but will tell you everything you need to know based on his watching Robin Leach between ADHD episodes when he was a teenager.”

  9. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Nj is going through a major transition…here is your evidence.

    “The inducements would be applicable to other companies should Amazon decide to build its $5 billion campus elsewhere, said Aisha Glover, president of the Newark Community Economic Development Corp., which oversees business opportunities.

    “This is not Amazon legislation,” Glover said in an interview. “This is for transformative projects.””

  10. Mike S says:

    Real wealth is never having to work another day in your life and you can still maintain your current lifestyle.
    Time = wealth.

  11. grim says:

    “This is not Amazon legislation,” Glover said in an interview. “This is for transformative projects.””

    They passed the legislation in such a way that pretty much excludes any other company.

    A trio of ordinances up for adoption at a city council meeting Wednesday would give the payroll-tax exemptions to any company that creates 30,000 jobs and invests $3 billion in New Jersey’s largest city over the next 20 years.

    It’s arguable that even Amazon wouldn’t qualify for this. Invest $150 million a year for 20 years? Right.

  12. homeboken says:

    This says a lot about the motivation of the person, sometimes the money isn’t the motivating factor.

    “They accrue massive wealth, which is cool, but then they die. Wtf make all that money if you never enjoy it?”

  13. grim says:

    Amazon would be better off buying a large section of Newark and incorporating their own municipality.

    Jersey loves that kinda shit.

  14. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I just heard something scary. There is a projected need of 625,000 airline pilots over the next two decades. Can you imagine when these glass touchers are flying planes?

  15. grim says:

    Can you imagine when these glass touchers are flying planes?

    You clearly do not personally know any commercial pilots, because that’s basically how you fly planes today.

  16. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    That’s FU money. Adam Carolla has a great bit where he says he wants to have F Me money. That’s where you can do and say stupid shit that costs you a bundle, and still never reduce your lifestyle. I guess some people call that Kanye money.

    Real wealth is never having to work another day in your life and you can still maintain your current lifestyle.

  17. Fast Eddie says:

    Can you imagine when these glass touchers are flying planes?

    I have the motto: “You text, you fly, you lose.”

  18. grim says:

    What are you going to think when pilots aren’t even on the plane anymore, and when planes are flown by remote drone pilots in Mumbai, because airline executives realized you could fit 4 more first class seats in the fore cabin if you removed the cockpit, and charge a premium to look out the front of the plane.

  19. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I haven’t stepped foot on a commercial aircraft since 2003, so why would I care? I only worry about them flying into wherever I’m staying.

    You clearly do not personally know any commercial pilots, because that’s basically how you fly planes today.

  20. The Great Pumpkin says:

    This guy is missing a big point. 60% of the population owns homes, a portion of those homeowners only own due to inheritance. So right there, almost half of the population has no impact on the housing market through purchases, they only impact pricing through their competition over rentals.

    So let’s dig even further. Is the gdp rising? That means the economy is growing, so someone is making more money. Four-fifths of worker’s wages are falling, but why should this stall housing prices if the top 20% are growing their incomes dramatically (income inequality). Meaning, this 20% of the population is responsible for driving a good portion of the housing market now with their home purchase to live in, and through their investment dollars in the real estate market. You read the article the other day with the guy from sf buying 8 homes in Texas to rent out.

    Maybe I’m totally off, but how do you explain current run up in stocks and housing under the conditions of most workers not seeing wage gains except for the top 20% over the past 10 years?

    “But since most workers aren’t earning 6 percent raises year after year, eventually this party has to come to an end. (Indeed, for four-fifths of privately employed workers, wages are actually falling.) Housing prices will stabilize or soften because they have nowhere else to go.”

  21. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Same as I think now. See above. (btw, there is some blacklist stuff in your future of flying post, grim).

  22. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    LOL! It’s c0ckpit

  23. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Grim – you are such a misogynist. I might not know any commercial pilots, but I know nice people aren’t so stupid that they don’t call it a flight deck. You’re probably a racist too.

  24. 3b says:

    Workers have not been getting 6 percent wages for years and yet prices have been rising. Did they just wake up now and realize they have not been getting 6 percent raises so the prices are slowing?

  25. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^ I keeeed!

  26. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yet, they keep working. Go ask Buffet. It’s nice to dream that you will just stop working because you have so and so amount of money, but truth is that you will never stop. So work and enjoy your money. Work hard to live a good lifestyle, don’t work hard your entire life to live a peasant lifestyle and die rich. It’s idiotic. No need to work so hard and make so much money if you enjoy living the life of a low income worker.

    “Real wealth is never having to work another day in your life and you can still maintain your current lifestyle.”

  27. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I told you the raises my wife and I had been receiving. The top 20% have been doing good. The top 10% great. The top 5% fabulous. The top 1% extraordinary. The rest have seen stagnating or 1%-2% raises. This is income inequality, buddy. Glad I’m on the right side of it.

    3b says:
    August 8, 2018 at 9:13 am
    Workers have not been getting 6 percent wages for years and yet prices have been rising. Did they just wake up now and realize they have not been getting 6 percent raises so the prices are slowing?

  28. 3b says:

    Yo millenials can age in all they want but does not mean they are buying houses. The ones that are are going to be in their 60s and 70s with mortgages. Another topic not being addressed.

  29. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    3b – We have not had any really significant price inflation in a long time. I still agree that wages haven’t kept up with prices in at least 16 years. A lot of people, particularly adults under 45, don’t really know price inflation. Price inflation is when everything goes up all the effing time, and that hasn’t happened in a long time. People spend cash as fast as they get it because they inherently know that it is worth less the next day. Health Care and College costs have been out of control for a long time, but it’s not inflation. Those costs are offset by declines in real costs of other things. In 2002 you could buy a pretty nice car for $25K and you can still buy a pretty nice car for $25K today. Food, gas, air travel – not ridiculously more expensive either. All the crazy cheap Chinese shit also offsets the costs of the stuff that’s run away from us with high prices. When we have real inflation, I guarantee everyone will know it and feel it…and curse it.

  30. 3b says:

    Grim is right tons of in full in Bergen but appears to Be mostly multi family. The one in my town is all framed out and is three stories tall. It’s the largest residential structure in my town. Another massive one in Hackensack on the old Bergen Co D p w site. Another massive one in Paramus under construction by Paramus Park mall. And 5 more multi family projects have been approved. Bergen co won’t be the ideal surburban area anymore like some want it to be. It’s changing everyday!

  31. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Pumpkin is on the right side of delusion. Otherwise his wife would be home and they would have more than one kid, and none of them would be sucking exhaust in the front yard.

  32. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    New York Republican congressman Chris Collins to be indicted on insider trading charges

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/08/gop-congressman-chris-collins-to-be-indicted-on-insider-trading-charge.html

  33. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Congress can’t be prosecuted for insider trading, personally. That’s why they are all multi-millionaires. I suspect he tipped off his son, and that’s how he’ll be taken down.

  34. 3b says:

    Inflation has to kick in at some point I believe. Nevertheless all the cheap crap gets canceled out by the high housing costs and property taxes and day care. Meanwhile we are to believe that the guy who is in finance but not in a revenue producing area is getting big raises!!

  35. Fast Eddie says:

    ExPat,

    Omg…

  36. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Right?

  37. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    And an education. A very, very, secret, secret, hush, hush, 3 degree education from PolskiUski.

    Meanwhile we are to believe that the guy who is in finance but not in a revenue producing area is getting big raises!!

  38. Fast Eddie says:

    How is that Russian collusion thing working out, by the way? Is Stormy Daniels still in the news? Do the bleeding hearts still care about illegal children or did they drop that issue since it seems to have run its course?

  39. Fast Eddie says:

    We need a tweet from p.ussy moana to clear things up here.

  40. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Truth is, my wife is career oriented. That’s why I only have one kid. Love my wife, and not forcing a kid on her if that’s not what she wants.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    August 8, 2018 at 9:25 am
    Pumpkin is on the right side of delusion. Otherwise his wife would be home and they would have more than one kid, and none of them would be sucking exhaust in the front yard.

  41. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I’m sure she is not so hot on the first one either.

    Truth is, my wife is career oriented. That’s why I only have one kid. Love my wife, and not forcing a kid on her if that’s not what she wants.

  42. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    At least half bad genes, and all;-)

  43. 1987 Condo says:

    “Real wealth is never having to work another day in your life and you can still maintain your current lifestyle.”

    I stopped last Fall at 56…I think my lifestyle is going up!

    I still don’t have enough time to spend on this blog as some of you working (supposedly?)

    Truth is wife still works and has benefits. But she is younger.

    Time > Money

  44. No One says:

    I guess the angry Dems cannot add. The green votes didn’t cost them the election according to the vote counts I saw.

  45. JustAsking says:

    Bunch of parents opting to have only Kid due to financial, career reasons…
    I feel for them.. My house feels empty when either my son or daughter is not home.. Same when we go for travel or long road trips.. Its nice to see them play and fight together.

    Pumps, you have a single point of failure..

  46. Provocateur says:

    Punkin will be very happy to learn that I celebrated joining the 7 figure income club in recent years by joining an expensive country club and sending my kid to a fancy school. Yet I’m still saving lots of money for the future – oh no! Still unwilling to buy business class tickets, or cars over $100k, so far…
    And no amount of money would ever make me want to give an incompetent “financial analyst” a raise. That would be unfair to all those people who learned how to calculate NPVs.

  47. Bystander says:

    Who here would hire “extraordinary Blumpkin” over “stagnating Stu” for anything other than sweeping landmines?

  48. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’m doing well. I’m not the one crying about no raises for myself. I’m just fighting to fix the income inequality problem that has been growing at an ever faster rate. I only care about the health of the economy. So when I’m fighting for wage inflation, I’m not fighting for myself. I’m the one making out. Blowing past most of my generation.

    You are a clown. Making 7 figures and won’t buy a 100,000 car? Who do you think that car market is made for? Get a life! Stop working so much if you are afraid to purchase a 100,000 car when you are making 7 figures. For a man of logic, it seems you lack using it in your life.

    Provocateur says:
    August 8, 2018 at 11:30 am
    Punkin will be very happy to learn that I celebrated joining the 7 figure income club in recent years by joining an expensive country club and sending my kid to a fancy school. Yet I’m still saving lots of money for the future – oh no! Still unwilling to buy business class tickets, or cars over $100k, so far…
    And no amount of money would ever make me want to give an incompetent “financial analyst” a raise. That would be unfair to all those people who learned how to calculate NPVs.

  49. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Love the characters that make 7 figures and brag about the used Camry they drive, and how only idiots spend their money on material things. Why are you so obsessed with making money if you don’t enjoy spending it? What a waste of an opportunity to really live life like a king.

  50. The Great Pumpkin says:

    No one is saying to blow your money like a poor individual winning the lottery, but set aside a percentage of your earnings to enjoy life. Stop obsessing with saving and investing every penny. It’s a disease to live like this.

  51. Bart says:

    For all the families that will never own homes and be forced to move more frequently due to being renters, will that have adverse impact on kids due to less stability? I know guy close to 50, two kids <7 and has had 3 addresses in 5 years.

    Since people are more leveraged, is mortgage default rate any higher for the last 5-6 years or is there not enough data to compare this time frame with say 2000-06 or 2004 – 2010?

    Anyone been back to the KHov project on the old Honeywell campus? Selling the stuff left and right and the development goes all the way back to nearly where NJT tracks are. Prices high and quality low.

  52. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Someone making 50,000 a year, is expected to be able to afford a 20,000 new car, yet the guy making 7 figures is afraid to buy a 100,000 dollar car. Lmao. Your type cracks me up. Why in the world are you racing ahead to have millions unspent when you die? You spent all this time to accrue money that you will never ever use. You are holding off on enjoying driving a drop top Porsche 911 to die with another 200,000 in your bank account….priceless.

  53. The Great Pumpkin says:

    My god, income inequality is out of control. If you can’t see anything wrong with this, no one can help you.

    “Last month, Bloomberg reported that Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon and owner of the Washington Post, has accumulated a fortune worth $150 billion. That is the biggest nominal amount in modern history, and extraordinary any way you slice it. Bezos is the world’s lone hectobillionaire. He is worth what the average American family is, nearly two million times over. He has about 50 percent more money than Bill Gates, twice as much as Mark Zuckerberg, 50 times as much as Oprah, and perhaps 100 times as much as President Trump. (Who knows!) He has gotten $50 billion richer in less than a year. He needs to spend roughly $28 million a day just to keep from accumulating more wealth.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/08/the-problem-with-bezos-billions/566552/?utm_source=feed

  54. JustAsking says:

    Pumps, Just because someone makes a 7 figure salary and doesn’t buy a 100K car, doesn’t mean people will laugh at them or there is a need to really go for a 100K+ car..

    I wouldn’t buy a 911 because I just like SUVs and hate cars… So i drive a RRS..
    ofcourse i don’t make anywhere near 7 figure but people have different reasons..

    You being caught up in this feeling that driving a 911 is cool, means you ain’t seen nothing yet.

  55. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “Bezos and Amazon are in many ways ideal exemplars of the triumph of capital over labor, like the Waltons and Walmart and Rockefeller and Standard Oil before them. That the gap between executives at top companies and employees around the country is so large is in and of itself shocking. Bezos has argued that there is not enough philanthropic need on earth for him to spend his billions on. (The Amazon founder, unlike Gates or Zuckerberg, has given away only a tiny fraction of his fortune.) “The only way that I can see to deploy this much financial resource is by converting my Amazon winnings into space travel,” he said this spring. “I am going to use my financial lottery winnings from Amazon to fund that.””

  56. Juice Box says:

    Billionaire tech boys club all have rockets. Musk, Besos and Allen…

  57. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Just asking,

    The point of my post is to mock people making a million a year that strive to make even more when they absolutely don’t need it. They don’t enjoy the millionaire lifestyle, so why waste so much time and energy on making a huge income you clearly don’t need. These are your Mr. Burns type, always looking to make more money when their life is boring and miserable.

  58. JustAsking says:

    Pumpkin,
    Depends.. Why do you buy house in nowhere in Wayne and commute for hours instead of staying close to work ??. You make enough $$$ to buy a 650K house with 18K tax, but compromised only to have 1 Kid..

    See life choices??

  59. Topper says:

    Would agree that time = wealth and space. More that wealth = time and space. Time as in doing what you want to do, when you want to do it, or, the luxury of doing nothing at all. Space, not in terms of the size of your house, but as in having the luxury of being around the company of those you want, and not around those because you have to.

  60. Topper says:

    Pumps – not everyone has to show off their purchasing power or the size of their wallet to be content. You won’t catch me paying $500/head to eat at Masa’s (even on cleint’s money). I’m fine drinking Costco vodka (the cheaper one) and blended whiskey. I seem to always end up at a dive after a night of drinks at high end bars – much prefer that than having to take a shower to wash of the slime. Doesn’t mean I splurge at times – mostly to avoid lines and the crowd. Have bought several $100K+ cars (never a Benz or Range Rover) and more modest level cars. It’s whatever and however the person chooses to live – some people are very content not living the aspirational life and seeking validation or status through those means.

    Live a little.

  61. Topper says:

    Grim – tried to repost an article and went into mod again. What is it about that post that keeps going into mod?

  62. Topper says:

    Lib,

    What’s your best guess for the weather at the shores next weekend? Two services show entirely different forecasts!

  63. Topper says:

    JustAsking,

    “My house feels empty when either my son or daughter is not home.. Same when we go for travel or long road trips.. Its nice to see them play and fight together.”

    Well said my man, well said! It’s really nice to have a few around.

  64. Provocateur says:

    Looks like I provoked Punkin into jumping to conclusions. If there was a great car that suited my needs for 100k, I might buy one. Instead I own a couple of 70k vehicles. Above that level I have diminishing returns. Most $100k cars will have bigger engines and lower profile tires and more unforgiving suspensions that could make life harder on NJ’s potholed roads. I guess the Panamera is the one 100k+ car that would be fast yet practical – can hold back seat passengers, golf clubs, tennis ball machine. But the marginal improvement over a supercharged A6 isn’t much, for 50k more money. A 911 would be fun for a while but it’s impractical.
    Anyway, I got to drive $150k BMWs and Audis on German autobahns and race tracks over the years. Cars that are fun for an afternoon there aren’t necessarily the best for commuting/shuttling kids in NJ.

    And Topper is right. The super rich just buy what they like – sometimes they like expensive things, and sometimes they like inexpensive things. People I know with 9-figure net worths don’t feel a need to buy luxury stamps of approval on everything they buy. They buy stuff for themselves, not to impress others. It’s well known within the luxury goods industry that most purchases are “aspirational,” i.e. people who want to look rich, rather than actually being rich (except amongst the very highest-end products).

    As for billionaires “hoarding” money. They aren’t. They own large stakes in businesses they founded. You cannot spend a stake in a company – you’d have to sell the stake, and then spend that money. They mostly hold on to their ownership, eventually transferring it to trusts and family members. Balmer converted some of his Microsoft into another business, a sports team, that’s more fun to own. Good for him.

  65. Xolepa says:

    You guys are missing one of the most important parts of the time/wealth equation….Without health, there is no wealth, the old saying goes. Well, maybe not in the English form. Either way, my brother retired in his early fifties. Now in his mid 60s. He spent time all over in his homes and properties, from NY to NJ to SC. Went on endless metal detector missions that started in his 30s. Liked to do physical stuff around the house, like myself and our father.

    Now he has 4th stage cancer. That was from his lifestyle choice. He lives in a 6000 sqft house in Colts Neck. His wife says not to worry, they don’t need to sell anything or downsize. She is fine for the rest of her life.

  66. The Great Pumkin Hypocrite says:

    “My god, income inequality is out of control. If you can’t see anything wrong with this, no one can help you.”

    What do you want to do to fix it? Tax him at 90%? It won’t work.

    Do you realize even if we took all his wealth and divided it evenly across all us citizens it would only come out to about 468 bucks each? You think that will fix the problem? Do some basic math Pumkin.

  67. NJDepartment says:

    I think pumps is a troll deployed by Grim to make this forum going… LOL

  68. Topper says:

    NJD – I think so too! ;) Expat – can you look into this?

  69. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    I just remember driving an 88 mustang that was running a turbo tuned to about 700 hp. Smoked some dude in a 911 with his girl in it. Mustang felt like shit to lose tona rusty old car.

  70. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Must have

  71. leftwing says:

    you don’t buy euro performance cars for the straightaway….throw a curve or two in there see who wins, assuming of course the pony car actually stays on the road….

  72. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Pumps is like the cowardly lion, the brainless scarecrow, and the heartless tin man rolled into one Polack. He just can’t fathom having any of the things he never will without being an ostentatious braggart. Look how he acts without any of accomplishments or education right now. It probably all boils down to issues with his criminal absentee dad and dropping out of HS.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/21/why-these-5-billionaires-still-drive-these-cheap-cars.html

  73. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You guys are missing my point. Live how you want, I’m just questioning the logic behind it. Living your entire life working for money you don’t need or won’t spend is just as stupid as someone that goes into debt to support a lifestyle they can’t afford. Both moves are illogical and make absolutely no sense.

    If you are okay with the modest lifestyle, why work so hard? I don’t get it.

    If I didn’t enjoy the finer lifestyle, I would quit my job right now and live off investments. Even though I wouldn’t have to work and would live off my investments, I would feel poor. I like going on nice vacations, driving nice cars, experiencing great restaurants, and being able to have the freedom to buy or do whatever I want (realistically speaking, can’t live the 1%er lifestyle). That’s why I keep working and striving for more money.

    My first car was a 1999 civic si. At 25, I bought my first new bmw. Nothing against cars like Honda, great product, but I don’t want to ever go below a bmw now. Just like I don’t want to go back to eating ramen noodles. Have one life to live, and want to enjoy my hard work.

    Bottom line, I will never understand why someone that spends maybe 30,000 a year wants to make 200k a year. What a complete waste of time. If you are making 7 figures and driving a Camry, you have major issues.

    Topper says:
    August 8, 2018 at 1:06 pm
    Pumps – not everyone has to show off their purchasing power or the size of their wallet to be content. You won’t catch me paying $500/head to eat at Masa’s (even on cleint’s money). I’m fine drinking Costco vodka (the cheaper one) and blended whiskey. I seem to always end up at a dive after a night of drinks at high end bars – much prefer that than having to take a shower to wash of the slime. Doesn’t mean I splurge at times – mostly to avoid lines and the crowd. Have bought several $100K+ cars (never a Benz or Range Rover) and more modest level cars. It’s whatever and however the person chooses to live – some people are very content not living the aspirational life and seeking validation or status through those means.

    Live a little.

  74. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Buying the finer things in life is not about showing off, it’s about enjoying the finer things in life and living the good life.

    Buying to show off? Makes no sense. People will hate you for having the nice lifestyle. They get so jealous, so this showing off thing flies right over my head.

  75. NJDepartment says:

    Pumps,

    What would below ‘bmw’ mean ?? Like you can have a BWM for 30K and a honda pilot may cost 35…

    I once in a while have Ramen noodles when I’m busy at work and need to grab something from the vending machine… and have no time. What is wrong with it

    get what you want, don’t buy because it has a name on it.. Just shows what happens to someone who saw a lot of money all of a sudden…

  76. NJDepartment says:

    It also seems to me that you have too much peer pressure, to prove something to your friends that you are good and wealthy.. Unnecessary pressure and stress. Once you start competing, there is no end.

    If you are confident yourself inside, all these stress will go away.. So do what you like and don’t live for others. This is America.

  77. The Great Pumkin Hypocrite says:

    I love to go on and on and on and on writing nonsense. I write nonsense when I can’t handle hearing the truth. It is part of my mental disorder. Pumkinitis?

    Do some basic math Pumkin and stop trying to justify what you want to steal from other people.

  78. Desks says:

    Pumpkin,

    when it was time for me to upgrade my car, I promised myself never to get a BMW because a bunch of wannabes drive one in NJ..

  79. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    The difference between a BMW and a porcupine?

    Porcupines have the pricks on the outside.

  80. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I bought my house last week of 2011. My wife wanted a turn key center hall colonial. At that time, was almost impossible to find. We didn’t want the apartment/condo lifestyle. So we weren’t moving to Hoboken. We looked at every nice town in Bergen, southern Morris, passic (wayne), and West Essex. We knew the key with housing was to try and stay in place for as long as possible, so we were skipping the starter home and trying to find something that could be our forever home. We finally found our home after 3 years. I don’t ever want to go through that hell of going house to house again. This December, it’s 7 years. So the plan worked.

    Some other things that played into staying in the Wayne area….family. Never underestimate the draw of family. That’s why I call bs on people claiming they will leave jersey due to property taxes. Are you really going to leave your family over 10,000-20,000 a year. Leaving all your family and friends for a location with no connections is a very costly move. I won’t touch it.

    JustAsking says:
    August 8, 2018 at 12:48 pm
    Pumpkin,
    Depends.. Why do you buy house in nowhere in Wayne and commute for hours instead of staying close to work ??. You make enough $$$ to buy a 650K house with 18K tax, but compromised only to have 1 Kid..

    See life choices??

  81. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I bought my house last week of 2011. My wife wanted a turn key center hall colonial, with highway access at the end of the driveway.

  82. leftwing says:

    Topper, “real wealth = time and space” was my original quote, before the twit mangled it.

    Your analysis is entirely correct. I’m not talking uber-wealthy (nine figures), even just high sevens works (liquid).

    The ability to fly private out of Morristown and have 1:30hr of flight time be 2 hours car door to car door, not 4 hours….and not be crushed with the masses

    Summer home with a buffer that you chopper to, not canal front in Loveladies that takes five hours of roundtrip car travel and crossing four lanes of major thoroughfare to get oceanfront

    Etc, you get it.

  83. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You clearly have never driven a bmw. Ultimate driving machine indeed. It’s one of the funnest practical cars to drive around.

    30,000? Listen, if you are going to cheap out and just get a base model to get the name, save your money. If you aren’t getting upgraded rims and a basic package, you should not be buying a bmw. You clearly just want the name. To each and their own, I just don’t understand people sometimes.

    Are you seriously questioning what’s wrong with ramen noodles? Unless you are trying to save money, why are you poisoning yourself? I guess once in while is fine, but living off it is not healthy.

    NJDepartment says:
    August 8, 2018 at 3:02 pm
    Pumps,

    What would below ‘bmw’ mean ?? Like you can have a BWM for 30K and a honda pilot may cost 35…

    I once in a while have Ramen noodles when I’m busy at work and need to grab something from the vending machine… and have no time. What is wrong with it

    get what you want, don’t buy because it has a name on it.. Just shows what happens to someone who saw a lot of money all of a sudden…

  84. grim says:

    God I hate helicopters

  85. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Extremist Muslim father arrested at New Mexico compound housing 11 starving children was ‘training them to commit school shootings’ and had set up target practice area on the site

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6040727/Extremist-Muslim-father-New-Mexico-compound-training-kids-carry-school-shootings.html

  86. leftwing says:

    Guys, again why do you even try?

    In the twit’s world you work for money. Most people with real wealth ‘work’ because the activity they do brings them great pleasure and later great success, manifested by money.

    Money was not the endpoint. That’s why so many of them don’t change their lifestyles appreciably. They just keep living in many ways the same they always have. They just have a bigger brokerage account, and create some marginal time and space.

    Best quote ever illustrative of this mindset…
    Years ago we were trying to entice a founder to sell his company. Relatively modest lifestyle, 60+ years old. Still ran the company after about three decades, came in every day. Easy sale if he would let it go, maker of specialty healthcare products, $1B+ valuation. He just didn’t want to stop doing what he was doing, enjoyed it so much. What did he express?

    “What am I going to do if I sell, become just some billionaire walking the shores of Lake Geneva?”. Priceless.

  87. Russian Bot says:

    “Extremist Muslim father arrested at New Mexico compound housing 11 starving children was ‘training them to commit school shootings’ and had set up target practice area on the site”

    They would still have a long, long way to go to catch up to the middle class white Christian boys who’ve had a monopoly on that.

  88. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You do the math. Are you really going to sit here and tell me that if we divided the wealth of the 1%, it will barely put money into the hands of the rest of the participants in the economy.

    I’m not advocating to attack the rich and divide up all their money. I’m advocating for them to stop taking advantage of the labor pool to the point that it’s hurting long term economic growth. Why can’t you understand this? I’m going to be in the 1% one day, why would I want to attack them and take their money? I simply don’t want them to crash the economy and ruin it for everyone.

    “The wealthiest 1 percent of American households own 40 percent of the country’s wealth, according to a new paper by economist Edward N. Wolff. That share is higher than it has been at any point since at least 1962, according to Wolff’s data, which comes from the federal Survey of Consumer Finances.”

    The Great Pumkin Hypocrite says:
    August 8, 2018 at 3:13 pm
    I love to go on and on and on and on writing nonsense. I write nonsense when I can’t handle hearing the truth. It is part of my mental disorder. Pumkinitis?

    Do some basic math Pumkin and stop trying to justify what you want to steal from other people.

  89. NJDepartment says:

    Pumps, Not going to tell you what I drive.. Doesn’t matter but I got something which is bigger than x5 and 20K more…( Requirement – I needed something bigger than an x5) I have 3 kids so they won’t fit in your 2 door BMW..

    Anyway,

    As far as ramen noodles, I bet the poison is less than the amount of pollution that you inhale everyday from the highway traffic.. See just to get a center hall colonial, you put your entire family at risk..

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6021667/How-living-near-busy-road-cause-heart-problems.html

  90. Fast Eddie says:

    And you all think it’s a real poster doing nothing all… day… long. It’s an attempt at satire. I still can’t believe any of you respond.

  91. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If this is the case, why doesn’t he cut some of his profit and give out some raises? He has no intention of living like a billionaire, correct?

    “Best quote ever illustrative of this mindset…
    Years ago we were trying to entice a founder to sell his company. Relatively modest lifestyle, 60+ years old. Still ran the company after about three decades, came in every day. Easy sale if he would let it go, maker of specialty healthcare products, $1B+ valuation. He just didn’t want to stop doing what he was doing, enjoyed it so much. What did he express?

    “What am I going to do if I sell, become just some billionaire walking the shores of Lake Geneva?”. Priceless.”

  92. Topper says:

    Don’t be knocking ramen. I had my fair share of college ramen in my days (10/$1!) but really didn’t “get” ramen until about 20 years ago when my wife and I went to Key West with a few couples. One of the couples who was Asian brought some ramen for the trip which I thought was strange. Who would want to eat hot noodles in the heat? Well, they invited us to the room and gave each of us a bowl of ramen (these were not the same ones from college) and, man!, to this day, I remember how soothing and delicious it was slurping that baby looking out at the ocean in an air conditioned room. From then on, we have taken ramen with us on every trip to the beach (even overseas, cruises, etc.). Try it for an afternoon snack when you come off the beach … amazing! … and you will pack it every time!

    Another food that we eat every chance we have is the halal food from the carts in the city. I turned my wife onto it when we were living in the city and I would bring it home late at night. Our halal guy was on the corner of my block (51st & 6th) and served enormous plates for like $5-6. We were in Washington Heights a few months ago so went in search of this halal cart that had excellent Yelp reviews. Turned out to be pretty good but not as good as our good and much smaller and more expensive. Then, last week, spotted a ‘Halal Guys’ store so of course we had to try. Very disappointed – small portions, salty, for $10! So, we made a promise we are going to go back in search of our halal guy very soon.

    In other cuisine, we ended up at a Caribbean joint near the Hackensack hosiptal a few months ago that I would highly recommend! I think it was Parish or something like that (next to a Carribean market type of place). Try everything – especially the ox tail (runs out quickly at lunch) – it’s like $7-8 (with a drink) for servings you can’t finish. We brought a lot of food home and some Jamaican patties for good measure (excellent as well!). Be warned, it’s divey place so not for everyone – just the way I like it.

  93. 3b says:

    Another day on the blog dominated by the one and only!!

  94. Topper says:

    BTW, the ramen bowls are not the ones you get at the supermarket (or got in college) – you have to go an Asian mart. They are larger and you just pour hot water. The Cup O’ Noodles can work if that’s the only option.

  95. NJDepartment says:

    Topper,

    In pumps world, you would be treated as an untouchable because you ate noodles and a $5 halal food from the street.. Also you didn’t buy a BMW so you aren’t qualified to be his friend or considered as wealthy.

    This is typical mindset of wannabes who saw a bunch of cash yesterday..

  96. 3b says:

    Fast maybe you are right. But grim
    Says I believe that he does exist. If it is satire how can someone keep this level of drivel up for years!!

  97. leftwing says:

    Something to play with, if you have nothing else to do….

    From Ex, this morning:
    “How much will NJ benefit if Cuomo signs that stupid bereavement leave bill?”

    Let’s start by calculating the damage of the bill.

    Here goes….awaiting signature is 12 weeks paid leave for an individual with a death in the family. Family is broadly defined, includes parents, mother/fathers-in-law, and others.

    Let’s assume an individual takes this benefit four times over a 25 year period. Once every six years.

    12 weeks over six years equals two weeks per year.
    Two weeks over 52 weeks equals 4% annually.

    Passing the bereavement bill is economically equivalent from the employer’s perspective to giving each employee a 4% raise, annually.

    Does anyone believe that an economically rationale employee would make that trade if presented to them? Good thing we have the government to ram this down the throats of employers and employees, involuntarily. Isn’t s0cia1ism grand?

    I would truly like to see an academic study on the costs to an employee of all the regulatory burden and ’employee protection’ laws.

    4% per annum employee wage increases foregone due to one regulation, yet wage stagnation is somehow the fault of buybacks….astounding logic.

  98. Topper says:

    NJD,

    I think I may prefer it that way. “Untouchable” … kinda like the way it sounds. Perhaps that may be my new handle!

  99. grim says:

    Didn’t expat already cyberstalk him and out him?

  100. Topper says:

    LW,

    The mandated sick leave cost employers plenty as is! And, I’m not talking $15-25/hr level. Try 3x – 5x that. It hurts.

  101. Topper says:

    NJD – and get this … I ask for ice with my wine at times (gasp)! And a splash of soda with my scotch. I enjoy the looks from some of the people. The veteran sommeliers understand.

    I am truly an untouchable. Good thing I don’t live in India.

  102. NJDepartment says:

    My Indian friends think you are cheap if you don’t drink single malt.. WTF..

  103. Topper says:

    My first car was a used rusty Honda. I was the senior analyst and the half dozen analysts/jr. analysts working for me were mostly driving brand new BMWs. We would go out to happy hour (and then 2nds/3rds) every Friday – did this for a little over a year – guess who picked up the tab? I guess it was all going into the car … but, hey – at least they looked good in the car!

  104. make money says:

    If this is the case, why doesn’t he cut some of his profit and give out some raises? He has no intention of living like a billionaire, correct?

    LMAO. Grasshopper.

  105. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’m sounding like a prick, and that’s not me.

    I pointed out ramen, not to sound stuck up, but because no 38 year old should be eating that to survive. It’s not real ramen, but the fake stuff that costs a penny.

    Bmw was never about showing off money. I loved it for its aggressive styling and beautiful curves. I’m young. Bmw isn’t about luxury, it’s about the drive. It’s a damn fun car brand and I hate how it has become stigmatized in our culture.

    This whole conversation started today on a simple premise. “Living your entire life working for money you don’t need or won’t spend is just as stupid as someone that goes into debt to support a lifestyle they can’t afford. Both moves are illogical and make absolutely no sense.”

    I’m a down to earth guy that’s not the prick this blog makes me out to be. It’s a blog, people are going to get confrontational and catch feelings on these issues. In real life, these conversations we have on this blog break up friends and family, so I rather discuss here than have friends or family hate me.

    NJDepartment says:
    August 8, 2018 at 4:22 pm
    Topper,

    In pumps world, you would be treated as an untouchable because you ate noodles and a $5 halal food from the street.. Also you didn’t buy a BMW so you aren’t qualified to be his friend or considered as wealthy.

    This is typical mindset of wannabes who saw a bunch of cash yesterday..

  106. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I have to keep in mind that this blog is filled with some of the biggest cheepos out there.

  107. The Great Pumpkin says:

    That better not be good scotch!! Lol. You def are an untouchable. Lol

    Topper says:
    August 8, 2018 at 4:49 pm
    NJD – and get this … I ask for ice with my wine at times (gasp)! And a splash of soda with my scotch. I enjoy the looks from some of the people. The veteran sommeliers understand.

    I am truly an untouchable. Good thing I don’t live in India.

  108. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    RB – Reading in between the lines, I guess your anti-middle class, anti-white, anti-Christian stance is…“So, let them.”?

    Here’s hoping your kids die first. That’s a genetic line that needs to be turned off.

    They would still have a long, long way to go to catch up to the middle class white Christian boys who’ve had a monopoly on that.

  109. NJDepartment says:

    Pump,

    Sometimes I eat Cheetos. Is that allowed to be qualified as an elite? or no?

  110. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I got way too drunk at a September dorm party when I was a barely 17 year old Freshman at Rutgers. I never touched hard liquor again for years, beer only. In my mid 20’s I told a friend that I wished I had some other drink I could order, especially when I was out on dates. My friend advised Scotch. His reasoning was that it would seem sophisticated, and it would taste like battery acid to me, so I would get out of the restaurant cheaper and more sober. I took his advice. I used to do scotch and soda on the rocks, later I switched to scotch rocks. I remember hearing many years ago that the only “correct” way was neat or a splash of water. I don’t care. I also will have white wine with ice sometimes. I have these 2.5″ diameter ice spheres that go great with un-chilled Chardonnay. The ice cube sphere melts so slow that it is good for several glasses without diluting the wine too much.

    Topper says:
    August 8, 2018 at 4:49 pm
    NJD – and get this … I ask for ice with my wine at times (gasp)! And a splash of soda with my scotch. I enjoy the looks from some of the people. The veteran sommeliers understand.

  111. grim says:

    There is no right or wrong way with whiskey.

    Whatever the hell you like, don’t let someone tell you how to drink it, or in what glass.

    Nonsense.

  112. Mike S says:

    Pumps is an idiot.
    200K+ income, I drive a 8 year old car worth less than 5K

  113. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Unfortunately, you guys are unable to see my point. Maybe I’m really bad at explaining myself.

    Btw, I used to be called cheap by friends and family, but a lot of posters here have a much worse case of the disease than I did. I remember how much it used to hurt when I would go make a bigger purchase, just couldn’t let go of the money because I was so cheap. Thank god I got over that disease and opened my eyes. My brother kept telling me…live while you are young. You will never get another chance and when you are old sitting here with all this money, you will be so far gone that you won’t find any pleasure in spending it. This was my brother that was two years younger than me, but understood the value of living in the now and didn’t want to see me waste it. Thank god, he got me to see the light. He saved me from a life of worrying about nickels and dimes, and I can’t thank him enough.

    Now I spend money on things without regret and still have more money than I know what to do with. No need for millions, just a 200k or higher income in the USA and you are more than good (what my wife and I started with in 2009 when we first married…a little over 200k and have never had to worry about money). I’m being honest, with 7 figures, I wouldn’t even know what to do with it. There’s a limit on how much you can spend, unless you want to buy 200k cars and 2 million dollar homes. My 650,000 house is more than enough room for me. It’s not some shack, and it’s not some 7000sq ft mansion. I actually clean my own house and would not want anything bigger(we are clean freaks and no one is going to clean it like us).

    Mike s,

    My bmw is 13 years old and I can’t let it go yet. It’s in primo shape (I wax a car four times a year) and if I sell, I will just be giving someone a fabulous deal on a car(no one is going to pay extra because you took care of a car). So I’m keeping till 40 bday and getting probably an M3. Keep that for two years and then try the Porsche. These were impossible dreams of mine as a kid, and hope to make those dreams come true.

  114. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s like the poster making 7 figures. How much better is his life than mine? He might have a hell of a lot more money in his accounts and his net worth might blow mine out the door. His income is triple mine. Does he have a much better life than me? Nope. Almost same quality of life(based on what he stated), but he has more zeros in his net worth. He will never spend it. After he dies, some family member will disrespect his hard work and piss it all away. Good luck!

  115. 3b says:

    I know whiskey snobs pooh pooh it but I do like my Jameson s once in a while. Although I do love a good bourbon. And I love Port!

  116. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Wow, Missouri voters have spoken. Red state voting for labor rights. Not so stupid after all.

    “With the defeat of Prop A in Missouri, the U.S. labor movement has passed its first major test since the Janus decision in June, in which the Supreme Court’s conservative majority essentially imposed “right-to-work” on the nation’s entire public sector.

    “The timing of this is essential. I think everyone wants to write the labor movement’s obituary,” AFL-CIO Secretary-Treasurer Liz Shuler recently said. “It’s going to energize and activate us and show that we fight back.”

    “It’s going to be the shot heard round the world,” AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka said last month, anticipating Prop A would lose. “It’ll make waves in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and Ohio and Washington D.C. And it will provide a powerful rebuke of the Supreme Court’s disgraceful ruling in Janus.””

  117. The Great Pumpkin says:

    They need to stop referring to these laws as “right to work”. That is a right-wing fabrication term used to deceive the ill-informed of the true intention of these laws: to reduce workers’ freedoms and right to collectively bargain. Just like “pro-life” is really just anti-abortion, “right to work” is really just anti-union and anti-blue collar citizen.

  118. The Great Pumpkin says:

    To defeat Prop A, union members and allies waged an aggressive get-out-the-vote campaign across the state, reaching some 500,000 voters through door-to-door canvassing and phone banking. They got help from actor and Missouri native John Goodman, who narrated a radio ad declaring that RTW “will not give you the right to work. Instead, it gives big business and out-of-state corporations the right to pay you less than they do now.”

  119. NJdepartment says:

    Pump, all the cows went home. You need to post this tomorrow AM when grim has a new article..

  120. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    The Janus decision gives union members a choice. Either the union can actually negotiate for its membership, or they can stop voluntarily contributing dues. Members were always forced to contribute, even when the union actively restricts their wages.

    My previous union actually negotiated a raise for teachers this past contract. As a concession, all aides, secretaries, and non-teaching non-counseling staff had a 3 year wage freeze. So they threw dues paying members under the bus for the other members. Of course, they still have to contribute their dues.

  121. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’ll repost tomorrow if Grim doesn’t use this as his lead article. God, I love my town. Best value within commuting distance to nyc. The value comes from being in Passaic County. If Wayne was in Essex, Morris, or Bergen….it would not be such a value.

    Wayne, N.J.: Good Schools, Water Views and Retail Vacancies
    https://nyti.ms/2MatxqJ?smid=nytcore-ios-share

  122. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Blue,

    Are you kidding me? Janus was an attack on unions by anti union individuals. It’s not even a question. The Janus dude quitting his job the minute he won the case and getting hired by a conservative think tank for prob a no show job says it all.

    Blue, if you don’t want to pay union dues, don’t work for a union job. It’s not rocket science. Not many union jobs left in America, so why pick a fight with them over this?

  123. NJDepartment says:

    Wayne is a great town to retire. I love the backyards in Wayne.. Great town to retire but the taxes don’t make sense. There is so much space in Wayne, they will just keep building.

    I don’t know what your idea of great commute is..

  124. NJDepartment says:

    Pumps,
    also don’t believe paid articles.. Look at this.. North Arlington is rated as the best town in the whole damn USA…by Time magazine. School ratings below 5.. You can get a nice house. 15 mins from NYC.. You went too far.. LOL

    https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/bergen/north-arlington/2017/12/12/north-arlington-named-best-place-raise-family-time/944379001/

  125. 3b says:

    And he doesn’t even work in NYC.

  126. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Eventually they’ll catch you peeping and wacking it.

    Wayne is a great town to retire. I love the backyards in Wayne

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