Now Open, Part II!
Prior weekend thread closed due to comment overflow.
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Save the Date!
We’ll be meeting up on Saturday, February 9th in Morristown NJ.
6pm Sharp!
Grasshopper off the Green
41-43 Morris Street, Morristown NJ
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From BusinessWeek:
Housing Meltdown
As Washington policymakers struggle to keep the U.S. out of recession, the swirling confusion over the housing market is making their job a lot tougher. Will American consumers keep shopping or be forced to pull back? Will banks lend freely or be hamstrung by mortgage defaults? What are the best policy options right now? Those and other important questions simply can’t be answered without a good idea of whether home prices will rise, flatten out, or keep dropping.
Some experts have begun to suggest that a bottom is in sight. Pali Research analyst Stephen East wrote in a research note to his firm’s clients on Jan. 25 that “the sun is not shining very brightly, but at least the worst of the storm has likely passed.” With optimism budding, Standard & Poor’s beaten-down index of homebuilder stocks soared 49% from Jan. 15 through Jan. 29.
But it’s considerably more likely that the storm is still gathering force. On Jan. 30 the government said annual economic growth slowed to just 0.6% in the fourth quarter as home construction plunged at a 24% annual rate. The Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller 20-city home price index fell 7.7% in November from the year before, the biggest decline since the index was created in 2000.
And that could be just the start. Brace yourself: Home prices could sink an additional 25% over the next two or three years, returning values to their 2000 levels in inflation-adjusted terms. That’s even with the Federal Reserve’s half-percentage-point rate cut on Jan. 30.
While a 25% decline is unprecedented in modern times, some economists are beginning to talk about it. “We now see potential for another 25% to 30% downside over the next two years,” says David A. Rosenberg, North American economist for Merrill Lynch (MER), who until recently had expected a much smaller slide.
From the WSJ:
The Subprime Cleanup Intensifies
Did UBS Improperly
Book Mortgage Prices?
Several Probes Expand
By KARA SCANNELL, ANITA RAGHAVAN and AMIR EFRATI
February 2, 2008
Federal criminal prosecutors in New York are investigating whether UBS AG misled investors by booking inflated prices of mortgage bonds it held despite knowledge that the valuations had dropped, according to people familiar with the matter.
The investigation, by the U.S. attorney in New York’s Eastern District in Brooklyn, is preliminary. The U.S. attorney’s office frequently works closely with the Securities and Exchange Commission to coordinate efforts to gather information. The New York prosecutors haven’t issued subpoenas, according to people familiar with the matter.
The SEC, deepening its own set of investigations into whether Wall Street firms improperly mispriced mortgage securities, recently upgraded probes of UBS and Merrill Lynch & Co. into formal investigations, people familiar with the matter say. This step, which requires approval of the full commission, gives the SEC broad subpoena power, or the authority to require firms and individuals to produce information.
Spokesmen for both UBS and Merrill declined to comment.
America’s Most Overpriced Suburbs
Matt Woolsey, Forbes.com
Jan. 31, 2008
While many of the nation’s homeowners are worried about falling home prices, others would argue they’re not falling fast enough.
You might find them in Santa Monica, Calif. There, it takes just over 17 years of total earned salary for the median-income household to afford the median-priced home. In Berkeley, Calif., it takes almost 15 years and for Passaic, N.J. households, it’s a more reasonable 13 years.
http://promo.realestate.yahoo.com/americas_most_overpriced_suburbs.html
3. Renting
Interesting paridigm change that 13 years gross salary is a reasonable price for an average house in Passaic. No wonder I’m confused.
Next Saturday night: Hope to chat [will flirt with any woman who does not have a ring on the designated left hand finger] and hope to hit the WMTR sock hop for some 50’s music after – and yes again, Mr Methodist here, no alcohol will be spilled during my animated discussions.
Talked to the financial adviser today. We’re looking at houses in the 400k range (i posted on here in 2006 that i was looking at 600k houses because i felt they would fall to 400k when i was ready to buy. Some of you laughed.).
Here’s the great news – a year ago, mortgage rates for 30 yr fixed were hovering in the 6.5 area. They are more in the 5% area now.
Using a $350k loan as an example … the rate dropping from 6.5-5.0 has shaved off approx. $350 a month (not including taxes/insurance) on the payment we WOULD have made and approx 100k over the duration of the loan.
We all know the dumba** FED is going to cut rates in March and then April. We will continue to rent while the rates go lower, and research the heck out of the real estate ‘game.’ In the meantime, the house prices keep plunging and the over-extended types walk away from nice houses. (I won’t lie – we’re looking for an acre, a pool, and 2500 sq feet. We will find it. But in Bucks County, PA … no way we’re doing NJ.)
If you have the patience, and you can, wait it out, people.
* Clot, bummer – im going to pass on gold. My dad called me about a week ago talking about gold. Now i know the ship has sailed. BUT, i do still have the email i sent my boys wayyyyyy back after you were pumping up gold on here. You know your s**t, man.
Interesting paridigm change that 13 years gross salary is a reasonable price for an average house in Passaic. No wonder I’m confused.
I think they are being facetious. Passaic county and Paterson were listed as the 1st & 3rd most overpriced markets in the Northeast
Biv (5)-
No alcohol will be spilled during mine, either. :)
Bath (6)-
There will be plenty of dips to buy into gold and/or the miners. That ship has not fully sailed, because the PPT is pulling every trick in the book to depress the price.
BTW, watch those mortgage rates. They are not going to react well to repeated Fed cuts. Witness this week and last Wed, after the 75 bps emergency cut.
From the same articls in BW.
There’s even uncertainty about where prices are right now, since many would-be sellers are refusing to cut them enough to make a sale. A Harris Interactive (HPOL) survey for Zillow.com in December found that 36% of homeowners thought their homes had increased in value over the past year, vs. 23% who thought they had decreased. That willful optimism translates directly into the record overhang of unsold existing homes: more than 4 million.
For a truer picture of the market, look at sales by banks and builders, which don’t have the luxury to wait things out because they have to worry about cash flow. Deutsche Bank (DB), among other banks, has been slashing prices on repossessed homes to get rid of them. In a recent transaction mentioned on BusinessWeek’s Hot Property blog, Deutsche Bank sold a house in Woodbridge, Va., in December for $150,000, less than half its last sale price of $315,000 in the spring of 2005. In November, Lennar (LEN), the big builder, sold 11,000 home sites to a joint venture it formed with Morgan Stanley Real Estate for $525 million, 60% below what they were valued on Lennar’s books. That’s capitulation, and it’s likely to occur more often as sellers get the idea that waiting won’t solve their problems
I tried your trick of the dead cat bounce on gold (not to feed your ego, but i read all your posts) and the financial adviser wouldn’t bite.
His logic is that we dont have enough in the IRA/401k at this point to be tinkering with a slippery bitach like gold.
Remember – im a young cat, just married, and we dont have millions like you do. And at 915 a pop … im far too (for lack of better word) afraid to go more than 3 ounces, which, frankly, is nothing.
im not a watch-the-market daily guy, either. more a buy and hold. c’est la vie. (But, i have taken Grim’s advice and the wife and i will both be reading the Black Swan on our impending vacation.)
just keep an ear to the ground for the ‘next big thing.’ lol.
dinra (10)-
Let Fred & Ethel think what they will. This bus is headed in one direction right now, and nobody’s gonna stop the momentum until that bus hits a brick wall.
Clot (or any other Realtor out there),
It seems like there so many overpriced houses (probably the majority of listings) out there just sitting on the market month after month with only the occasional piddley little $5K-$10k price reduction after a few months on the market.
Can you offer any insight on how listing prices, for the most part, are set these days? Are they, again for the most part, mostly driven by the Realtor’s suggestion or by the seller’s “need” to get to a certain price or by their “divine right’ to get whet their neighbor got in ’05?
How are Realtors arriving at suggested listing prices? Comps (even if stale or include other concessions) or looking at where similar houses are currently listed?
Bath (11)-
I don’t have millions. However, I’d still suggest allocating a small percentage of your portfolio (maybe a little of the f-you stash) to tinkering in the yellow metal.
The way you get to millions is by tinkering with the “slippery byatch”. I’m not talking about going to an overweight position…just a cut that might be a little more than a classic “defensive” allocation.
Besides, when we all go Mad Max, you can easily launder your physical gold by using ducats in barter. Shake and bake, baby!
All disclaimers.
rent (13)-
Pretty much all the methods you mentioned are currently used in pricing. The one constant among them is that they don’t work. That’s how you get record-low sales and over 2 million vacant homes on the market.
The good news is, legitimate buyers can wait longer than sellers can stay solvent. The market will correct…it always does.
BTW, in a market like this, the only pricing method that does work is pricing-to-trend. Basically, you have to assess the current value of a property, then apply a deflator to account for the anticipated drop in value during the marketing phase.
Even after that, an agent might need to shave off a few more bucks, just to position a property as a clear value against its direct competitors.
Two pieces of anecdotal evidence before I hit the hay: A colleague’s grad school buddy is trying to sell a condo at Governor’s Pointe in North Brunswick. He received 5 offers. 4 fell through because the buyers couldn’t get mortgages. The 5th offer fell through because the bank felt the property was overpriced and would not issue the loan.
A friend and his wife bought a dining room set off craigslist. They paid a grand for a one year old, barely used set worth 4 grand new. The sellers were a mortgage broker and his wife who can no longer afford the payments on their McMansion in South Jersey. They had to let their cleaning lady go, and they’re moving to an apartment because the wife isn’t going to clean an entire house by herself.
The tide is changing. I’m glad I saved.
“While a 25% decline is unprecedented in modern times, some economists are beginning to talk about it. “We now see potential for another 25% to 30% downside over the next two years,” says David A. Rosenberg, North American economist for Merrill Lynch (MER), who until recently had expected a much smaller slide.”
Like I’ve been saying for a long time – ain’t buying before 2010.
5 roy
I’ve got Methodist ancestors (gramps was the full-on teetotaling type – unlike his daughter and me).
Don’t leave before I get there – I’ll by you a Coke!
“If you have the patience, and you can, wait it out, people.”
You talkin’ to me, Bloodbath?
Clot,
Since I don’t think I should be carrying around a real one, maybe this would suffice:
http://www.tropicalisle.com/shop/oneandonly.html
I’ll be posting a new Lowball! tomorrow, keep an eye out.
Hello all,
I have been traveling for work and have not had an opportunity to watch the comments the last couple of days, so excuse me if this has been addressed already.
Has anyone seen or heard any of the NAR push for people to jump back into RE? I nearly spit out my coffee when I saw they were touting, drum roll please — LEVERAGE!
Isn’t that one of the prime problems right now — that people levereaged their homes as “values” rose?
Does anybody know a web site that least companies stock prices that are 10% or more lower from their high yoy.ty
23
Ask bi. He speaks your language.
Shore,
You missed yesterday’s thread, where several other posters confirmed that I wasn’t hearing things when I heard that NAR radio commercial – that homes double in value every 10 years.
342: “The catch is that breeders are great for weapons material”
There is that and the issues of using liquid Na for cooling.
Now the Star Ledger quotes James Bednar (see “Lowball! – this site 2-2-08)
At the risk of sounding “tiresome”…the weekend open discussion intro does say “Also a good place to post suggestions, requests for information, critism, and praise.”
Grim earns my praise, once again, as a realtor speaking honestly, clearly, and openly regarding the New Jersey housing market.
# 25 In fact, over the long haul it is a true statement. That said, when looking to buy right now, prople need to consider both the long- and short-term environment. Clearly, most RE is not appreciating very much, or at all, at the moment. For the NAR to be pointing to 50-year trends, in a declining market, in order to try to move people into buying strikes me as one step up from the tactics of snake-oil salesmen of old. It is similar to a broker calling one and hyping the great gains of Enron, after the bad news started to come out and things looked bad for the company; “sure things are down a bit in recent months but over the long term people have made out well with Enron.”
Another thing with that 10-year appreciation figure, the same can be said of just about anything that keeps up with inflation.
J.B., you’re getting so much publicity that I’m starting to wonder if we aren’t starting to skim the bottom.
It’s making me nervous.
I still have another 100k to shave off our target property. That’s going to mean the difference between retiring early in twenty years 63 with a part-time job, or working full time for another 5 years.
Why would someone reduce the list price from 419000 to 415900 after having it in the market for over 130 days…beats me. What are they trying to say?
dinra,
How about this one off today’s hot sheet?
MLS# 2450795 – Piscataway NJ:
Previous Price: $499,900
Current Price: $499,899
A price reduction of one dollar!
ha ha….can’t believe it…..good one.
bath [6],
The sails are just being hoisted.
Grim 31 Thats got to be a joke or maybe just trying to get seen on all the hot sheets.I already have auto-updates for my
area & if it was I would have gotten it so I guess its good for something.But 1 dollar
what a set of ……!
By the way I posted a 100k reduction on a 4 bd about 2 monthes ago still sitting.360 to 260 no luck.
Is their confirmation of the market for homes in the 500-650K range softening in towns like W.Orange, Montclair, Millburn, etc??
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/fi/14/90/97.jpg
Housing meltdown! Makes a nice title bar for the site.
http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/104340/Housing-Meltdown;_ylt=AmGKf684MQTRDkR9sdUsH_hO7sMF
Burnt toast!
It’s time to play hardball with these greedy grubbers. No Bids. Lol!
Go Giants.
babababbaba
BOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAA
Bob
Boooyaaaa,
Where the hell have you been? I figured you were tap dancing on some laid out bodies?
exactly……….
35………..softening? I am not an expert here but the three towns you mentioned…W Orange…Montclair…and Millburn are completely different. My two cents…Millburn is a high consumption town….Montclair is more diverse but full of larger older homes many of which need big bucks to rehab or maintain….and W. Orange is a place where your money goes far….but has pockets of desirable homes.
Grim – Silly question, but i’ll ask it anyway … you dont have hot sheet to any properties in Eastern PA, do you? Perhaps … Bucks County?
I heard Booya Bob was busy trapping feral subprime borrowers and having them fixed?
You know, too cut down on the Friskie eaters.
“HEHEHE Says:
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I heard Booya Bob was busy trapping feral subprime borrowers and having them fixed?”
Classic. I practically peed myself laughing.
I vote this as post of the day.
Hahaha!
some very disciplined and intelligent posters on this board.
Note to friskie eaters: your past schemes & tactics will not work on these wise buyers.
Change tactics. A good start would be to start telling the truth for once like clot.
Good luck over and out.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
Bob
Say what?
In its weekly “Residential Sales Around the Region” the New York Times picked these 4 examples for NJ:
Old Bridge
LP: $179,900
SP: $184,400
Spring Lake Heights
LP: $559,000
SP: $559,000
Florham Park
LP: $949,900
SP: $890,000
Summit
LP: $1.325 million
SP: $1.425 million
Love the mayors statement:
French President Marries Former Model
February 02, 2008 2:03 PM EST
PARIS – French President Nicolas Sarkozy married former model Carla Bruni on Saturday at the Elysee Palace….
“The bride wore white; she was ravishing, as usual,” Francois Lebel, mayor of Paris’ eighth arrondissement, or neighborhood, told Europe-1 radio. “The groom wasn’t bad either.”
ket,
Saw your Boonton house today, rough shape, lots more work than anticipated. Not in livable condition at all, total gut required. No room for a bath on the second floor, you’d need to dormer out the back to add a second bath. First floor bath is shower only, in rough shape. Boomerang formica is original, didn’t they just reissue the boomerang pattern?
Basement isn’t useable, floor is heavily pitched. You can stand at one end, can’t at the other. Garage is at street level, which I believe is in flood.
Ann / Grim / anyone else familiar with middelesex county –
I went and saw this house with my parents today (they are looking to buy). It is MLS ID 2476222 on GSMLS. The taxes are around 10K. The town is North Brunswick. What would be a reasonable bid for this house at which we wouldn’t be getting ripped off?
My parents are 50/50 about waiting – if indeed the prices will come down a lot, they will wait, but they would be more interested in buying at a good price right now so I’m trying to gauge what a good price would be.
From domania.com, I could see that year 2000 prices are around 300,000. How do I calculate inflation adjustment and “normal” appreciation.
rabs,
The house looks very nice. The section of North Brunswick where it’s located isn’t bad, although it’s close to some semi-industrial and run down areas off Jersey Avenue. Supposedly the town is pushing to get a train station and a transit village built at the former J&J site off Route 1, which in theory should push property values up. My biggest complaint about North Brunswick is that it lacks any sense of identity and neighborhood feel. It’s not so much a town as an amalgamation of subdivisions sharing the same ZIP code. It’s divided by Routes 1, 230, and 27, and traffic can get ugly. The North Brunswick Pub is my favorite local dive bar, and there are decent Indian restaurants on 130.
Boomerang formica is original, didn’t they just reissue the boomerang pattern?
Yes, about 2-3 years ago. Bless those people at Formice.
Just received my latest issue of American Bungalow… I really should move away from this area.
35 caspian
Nice handle. Where are Drinian and Rhoop?
rabs Maybe have Mom & Dad read post 37.If they feel they have to buy & are good with the area lowball away.Is your agent on the same page?Very important to getting a low bid thru.I’d start at 450 & see if they counter.If not walk away time is on your side.
Ridgewood
SLD 222 GATEWAY RD $640,000 7/19/2005
2804604
ACT 222 GATEWAY RD $629,000 2/1/2008
Here it is, Coral Boomerang:
CORAL BOOMERANG
Rich,
Did you see the Boonton house? You would appreciate it, 1920’s Bungalow/Craftsman.
http://new.gsmls.com/public/detailLst.do?mlsNum=2459421
Unmolested and ready to be restored. Unfortunately, it has fallen in to disrepair. I believe the current owner is in Florida.
50 rabs
That’s a lovely house. I don’t know what price would be fair. From what I see, 2004 comps seem to be getting accepted right now (that’s what we sold and bought for recently) but of course things could go down from there. You could try to find 2004 comps for that model (see app.com, click on data universe for sales data for NJ).
Question for you though, any reason in particular why you are buying in North Brunswick? Not saying it is a bad town, but you could do better, in terms of schools anyway, in that area if your budget is that high.
Not sure if you have kids or are planning to have kids, but school quality is always something to consider about when you’re buying a 4br house anyway. South Brunswick, Plainsboro, E. Brunswick, not sure how far south you can go, even Robbinsville?
Again, not putting down North Brunswick, I know people who like it there, but in your price range, there are other towns where you could probably get a just as nice of a house with a better (or at least considered better) school system.
From JB’s Star Ledger Article:
“We’re all likely to look back five years from now and conclude that 2008 was a time when smart buyers took advantage of this unique opportunity by locking in both low prices and low interest rates,” Otteau said.
Otteau, where are these “low prices”? Most of what I am seeing is a few percentage points off 2005/2006 peak fantasy prices.
This would be like walking into a Toyota dealership where the dealer marks up the price of a Camry from $25k to $50k. After not selling many Camry’s, the dealer lowers the price to $45k and throws in 1.9% financing. Are buyers supposed to get excited over this? Well, that’s where the housing market is right now for the most part.
50
Oops, sorry, just saw this is for your parents! School quality is still something to consider, but may not be as important as I am assuming your parents are done with that part of their lives!
My wife loves the 50’s stuff. She’s thinking about a classic 50’s kitchen, boomerang pattern Formica with the steel strip around the edge.
#50,
This house is not worth more than $350K in the current environment.
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?mlslid=2476222+&ml=3&typ=7&sid=22119f4fb7694c5ba62c39477bb12b7b&lid=1094202762&lsn=1&srcnt=1#Detail
50/62
I don’t think you would get it for 350 today. Looking at old sales data, 350 would be a 2001 price. I don’t think we’re there yet, but 560 isn’t the right price either, that’s for certain.
The highest price ever seen on that street (assuming the houses are all sort of similar) is 535, a good example of people still pricing at post-peak 2005 prices.
Maybe 450-475.
#62
I disagree.
I believe a fair price for that house to be in the mid to upper 400’s. It seems be a decent home, from the pictures.
As others have said, I’m not a big fan of No. Bruns., but buyers may have their reasons for shopping there.
If they aren’t in a hurry, I would recommend waiting a while. Prices are certain to drop further, although I’m not sure how much further they will drop compared to today’s prices.
We all are hoping they will drop much further, but I’m not sure that they will. I’d say they have another 10-15% to go. Of course I’m hoping for much more than that.
Booyah must be checking in from the Super Bowl.
Which towns would you suggest if not N. Brunswick? It seems like the most affordable right now, esp. for first time homebuyers.
Which towns are you think are the best value for money for a first time homebuyer who needs to commute to mid-town NYC?
Appreciate the inputs.
66
If I was in the North Brunswick area and wanted to be up around there, I would shoot for East or South Brunswick over North Brunswick. JMO
Depends what your budget is, what you want from a town, how long you are going to be there..
I have a budget of around $250K. I am looking to be there for at least the next 7 years. Since this is going to be my first home, i would look to move up and hence would be concerned about the resale value.
What i want from a town is a tolerable commute to midtown NYC, safety ,good schools, and no killer taxes.
A tall order, eh?
#64 sybarite; They are going to drop much further. The best or worst (depending how you view it) for price declines is still to come.
#50 rent: Patience;its coming,getting louder everyday.
Hi there. It’s been quite sometime my last post, but have enjoyed lurking immensely for a good 8 months now. I would like to say congratulations to Grim on the incredible success with the blog! I would also like to thank Grim, Clotpoll, BC Bob, et al, for the ongoing education—you guys and gals have saved me from making some very, very costly mistakes!
On that note, a huge issue has been brought to my attention that some of you may, or may not be currently aware of. The information pertains to the new DEP stream encroachment guidelines and how they affect one’s ability to utilize a property. As of Nov. 7th 2007, the DEP increased buffer zone requirements to 300′ on category 1 waters. This means that properties that fall with these zones are not only next to impossible to sub-divide, but expanding beyond a properties existing footprint could also prove to be extremely difficult if not impossible. Keep this in mind as the whereabouts of stream and whether it’s considered category 1 water is not something that is intuitively obvious.
The following link provides a fairly easy way of determining whether a property falls within this zone.
http://njgin.state.nj.us/OIT_BusinessMap/index.jsp
I don’t know how accurate the data points are on this site, but they certainly define what waters are classified and give an easy method of looking at other possible issues such as wet lands, toxic sites, etc. It’s certainly a useful tool to have on your favorites.
Any information from those that have successfully navigated through any of this red tape would be
#49
That property in Boonton has some charm but has way too many issues. I too was intrigued, but quickly realized there is no way to remedy the “ski slope” driveway or an appropriate way to enter the house (unless walking up 4 flights of stairs is appealing.)
Anyone who buys this house has been lured in by it’s views of the river and privacy, but are going to be in for a rude awakening due to major ledgerock ledgerock=drilling=EXPENSIVE.
REALTORS!
We went to the open house at the condo below ours last weekend, another guy renting in the complex also stopped by. The realtor told us that suddenly in January there has been an upswing in buying activity in NJ. He also told us that all the news we hear about the housing market is national. Locally the market is strong. He TOLD us that IN NEW JERSEY THERE WERE ONLY 200 FORECLOSURES LAST YEAR.
The very next day CNN posted a foreclosure map for 2007. In NJ there were some 53,000 foreclosures. So he was only off by more than 2 orders of magnitude!!!
WTF! I’m just floored by the marketing strategy “it doesn’t matter if it’s true, it just matters that you can convince a potential buyer that it’s true”. I’m so tired of getting “financial advice” from realtors. When we finally do buy a house, we’ll do it without a buyers agent, and preferably find an FSBO. They have just completely discretided themselves over the last year.
I was doing some apartment cleaning this week and was happily chucking packets of junk into the recycling bin from when I started my new job in the summer of 2006. I came across a folder from Bank of America with flyer advertising “The prescription for a better home: No down payment doctor’s loan. This loan features: 100% financing, no private mortgage insurance, loan amounts available up to $650K, and fixed or adjustable rate mortgages available.” The info in this packet was aimed at some 300 new hires making about $40K, with a good number of those new hires already struggling with $200K+ educational debt and families. After everything I’ve learned and read on this board, I had to laugh when I opened the folder and saw this. I wonder how the people who went through with this are doing.
Could someone tell me the name of the website that posts recent sales in Bergen County? Thanks
“Booyah must be checking in from the Super Bowl.”
Clot,
Wasn’t that the last time we heard from Listen? If my memory serves me correct, I think I saw Booyaaaa in Wayne Huigenza’s box, in the first half, with a Colts Jersey. Listen was spotted, in the 2nd half, with a Bears Jersey. However, very strange, I never observed them together? Obviously, Booyaaaa is back assisting the distressed. I’m sure Listen is stuck in Fla with 3 condo’s up his #ss. On the other hand, he may be setting up Tom Petty for tomorrow, working overtime as his arm’s reset.
GO G-MEN.
Contracty (71)-
Those stream encroachment rules are a beast. If so much as a planned deck or patio violates the 300′ setback, forget it.
“Barnert Hospital closes its doors this weekend”
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-12/1201930535121520.xml&coll=1
SAS
gw (73)-
“When we finally do buy a house, we’ll do it without a buyers agent, and preferably find an FSBO. They have just completely discretided themselves over the last year.”
Since when is one crummy agent a proxy for all of us? If it were one of my agents sitting that open house and that agent sat with you, showed you comps and honestly explained the current market, would it be reasonable to expect that you love us all?
There are thousands of agents out there. For the most part, open houses are manned by newbies and short-timers (agents like kl are the exception, not the rule). Waddya expect?
Good luck re-inventing the wheel when you decide to buy. That should work well for you.
gryf (74)-
You probably know exactly how anybody who took that deal is doing.
Too bad B of A didn’t have Tangelo Mozilo around to really show them how to sell that slop.
BC (76)-
If recollection serves, Listen was never heard from again after last year’s Supe. I think Booyah got him loaded, took him out on a boat and used him as shark-hunting chum.
Or, Listen got a job tending bar at a Buffalo Wild Wings in Ft. Liquordale.
Or, he’s become a process server in Dade County.
Lots of lis pendens to deliver there…
“We’re all likely to look back five years from now and conclude that 2008 was a time when smart buyers took advantage of this unique opportunity by locking in both low prices and low interest rates,” Otteau said.
This guy can’t be serious?
I think we will look back in 5 years and realize Otteau lost all credability back in 05.
SAS
First residential and now comes commercial RE…
From TimesOnline(UK):
“Earthquake at British Land as £1.3bn is wiped off portfolio”
http://tinyurl.com/3d2tyr
“First residential and now comes commercial RE…”
then comes credit card defaults…
Its going to get damn ugly.
SAS
“Barnert Hospital closes its doors this weekend”
SAS,
They should close the doors on the whole town, the state next?
yup, the state is next.
If I was a state pension person, I’d be sweating.
We’ll be watching.
;)
SAS
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article3570.html
US Banking System Teetering on the Brink of Collapse
Not certain of the reliability of the source, but the article is pretty gloomy.
Hi, Looking for properties in Morris and was wondering if anyone could provide addresses for the following GSMLS #’s 2463314, 2438002, 2439145. Thank you.
Drew21776,
you buy in 08, you’ll be underwater in 09.
have fun ;)
SAS
Stu,
I’m still hearing the line about how comm re is either “hot”, “not affected” or both.
NJBIA just had an article with the headline
(paraphrased) “Commercial RE unfazed by sub-prime mess…”
And then goes on to quote principal after principal as saying “we’re OK to sit tight…we’re holding down the fort….we’re gonna sit back and watch carefully…”
Which belies the very headline the article carries. If comm re is unfazed, where is thr growth? Why batten down your hatches if your are “unaffected”?
spam
Yup.
I more than doubled my position in SRS yesterday. May quadruple it on a further drop. The raw size of the FED auctions is just plain scary.
It appears that we may just be on the eve of depression.
My 401K is 80% bonds and 10% international.
I may throw my Chipotle holdings into FXI as well.
Thank the lord for my savings and 750+ credit rating. I’m gonna get a house a cheap!
stuw6 (92)-
Watch that FTSE index and all your Euro-denominated stuff. That’s gonna turn ugly when the ECB gives in and starts inflating.
Our own little cancer will metastasize all over the world. I’m of the mind the USD hasn’t fallen much more recently because everyone’s onto the fact that the Euro is overbought/overvalued.
Oradell
SLD 820 BELLIS PKWY $579,000 8/1/2005
2740576
ACT 820 BELLIS PKWY $599,000 10/5/2007
PCH 820 BELLIS PKWY $579,000 10/26/2007
W-T 820 BELLIS PKWY $579,000 12/18/2007
2804619
ACT 820 BELLIS PKWY $575,000 2/2/2008
I’m surprised by the number of market-timing commenters there are here. In the words of Peter Bernstein, “market timing recommendations have an impressive track record of being harmful to an investor’s financial health.”
And then there’s Peter Lynch, “Far more money has been lost by investors in preparing for corrections, or anticipating corrections, than has been lost in the corrections themselves.”
I’m not suggesting you do anything specific, but I can’t imagine that making drastic changes, like converting your net worth into half international stocks and half gold, is good for your long-term financial health. Chifi and Clot may kill me for saying this, but for most people, it’s probably better to pick an investment plan that works for you and stay the course.
Also, there is an interesting “debate” going on regarding whether it makes sense for investors to invest in commodities at all: http://tinyurl.com/2e7tj4
From the New York Times:
Home Prices Start to Dip, Recalling ’90s Slump
For homeowners in the metropolitan area, all of the talk in the past year about a real estate collapse may have sounded as foreign as a Bollywood musical.
After all, the value of the typical home in the area has more than doubled in this decade. And at the region’s core, the prices of apartments in Manhattan have floated upward on seemingly unquenchable demand.
But lately, more cracks in the housing market have begun to show, and the trend is reminding some analysts of the severe downturn in the region during the recession that followed the boom years of the late 1980s.
Even in Manhattan, signs of weakness have appeared beneath the headlines about ever-rising average sale prices of condominiums and co-ops.
A report last week found that rents in Manhattan declined in January, by more than 7 percent in some neighborhoods, according to the Real Estate Group New York.
The latest set of numbers “reinforces our sentiment that the market has, in fact, turned,” Daniel Baum, the chief operating officer of the company, said in the report.
Economic distress signals are not nearly as widespread as they were in the early 1990s, and economists are still debating whether there will even be a recession this time.
Nonetheless, the long advance and subsequent retreat in house prices in the region bear an eerie resemblance to the rise and fall of two decades ago. It is too soon to tell just how deep the current decline will be. But James W. Hughes, who has tracked the market for homes around New York City through cycles of boom and bust, said he expected it to be worse than — maybe twice as bad as — the fallout from the “real estate bubble” of the 1980s.
Mr. Hughes, the dean of the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers University, said that housing prices in New Jersey rose 145 percent from 1980 to 1988, then fell about 9 percent by 1992.
The pattern for the suburbs in New York and Connecticut was similar, he said. That flow and ebb left people who stayed in their houses during that period with property values that more than doubled, on average.
But the people who bought near the peak in 1988 faced significant losses if they had to sell quickly. Indeed, it took 10 years for house prices in New Jersey to return to their 1988 level, Mr. Hughes said. (Taking inflation into account, the recovery was not complete until 2002, he said.)
“A lot of the pain was felt by peak-of-market buyers that bought in ’88,” Mr. Hughes said. “Those are the ones that really got stuck.”
Grim – An interesting situation in my California neighborhood…3 houses purchased at the 2006 “high” w/ int. only loans or ARMS as rentals. Purchase prices – $320,000 to 345,000. This is a decent neighborhood but small square footages – 1100 to 1500. They must have been taking a loss or breaking even charging $1200. to $1500 a month rent. Anyway..I’m pretty sure not a cent has been paid on the principle.
The values have declined to say $225,000 – $250,000. THE RENTERS ARE MOVING OUT. They can now purchase one of the gazillion foreclosures that spring up daily in this area of California. They can get their own $250,000 place at 5.50% 30-year fixed or purchase a new place at an even lower int. rate as the builders try to liquidate this over-built market.
BTW, most of us didn’t budge at the high (nearing retirement)-small sq. footage just fine -and we didn’t want to give up our tax base with a guaranteed 3% tax increase a year (prop.13.) and smaller mort. payments.
But there must be “unrentable rentals” all over this area now. So, not only can they not sell at a profit..they can’t even rent out those suckers. What a mess!
Grim, just a thank you once again for all the great info you and others provide here, and congrats on all of your success with the blog and beyond!
75 njbuyer
buyinginbergen.com
Newsweek 2007 ranks of the best high schools in NJ:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/39380/?sort=State&count=1236&start=0&limit=100&year=2007
100#, you need to type “NJ” in “refine result” area and hit search
victorian
That is a tall order, but you’ll find something!
Anybody here has insight on why McNair Academic is consistently ranked high in both newsweek and nj monthly? this is a school where almost 40% of students take subsiddized lunch.
Very Interesting take on RE,
http://www.creonline.com/articles/art-331.html
The foreclosure problem has really just started. Subprime resets will peak in 2008; but “Pay Option ARM” and “Alt-A” loan problems will not peak until 2011. Perhaps we’ll see a “dead cat bounce” in 2009; maybe another in 2010–before the final collapse heading into 2012.
At the end of 2006, there were approximately 3.5 million U.S. homeowners with no equity or negative equity (7% of the 51 million household with mortgages). By the end of 2007, the number will have risen to about 5.6 million.
If prices decline an additional 10% in 2008, the number of homeowners with no equity will rise to 10.7 million. And that is more than likely, in light of how the market is shaking out of its chimerical folly today. Many areas in the country are just beginning to see prices plummet.
67#, ann,
in addition, th property tax in north brunswick is among highest in middlesex county. both south brunswick and east brunswick have big portion of comercial property tax to subside the township budget.
Bi 103 Whats lunch have to do with it?
Clotpoll Says:
“Watch that FTSE index and all your Euro-denominated stuff. That’s gonna turn ugly when the ECB gives in and starts inflating.
Our own little cancer will metastasize all over the world. I’m of the mind the USD hasn’t fallen much more recently because everyone’s onto the fact that the Euro is overbought/overvalued.”
I’m bearish on the Euro. Hubby wanted to buy it (which is the kiss of death). Plus they have their own bubbles – AND a lot of Euro real estate was bought by bubble-wealthy Brits in the past few years which stimulated European economies more than I think people anticipate. I heard that there are swaths of empty, unfinished buildings mouldering on the outskirts of many Spanish cities.
Mike 106
If the school system pays for all or a part of that much lunch, the assumption is the area is not good as people can’t pay for their kid’s lunch.
106/108 I should be more clear- sorry still half asleep. If an area has a population that is either poor or finds a way to make money off the books or both, that is reflected on the school’s application for free or reduced price lunch. With 40% of the students getting subsidized lunch, the assumption is the area is poor. So the question becomes do you want to live in a poor area.
I like the way they publish that NY Times article on Superbowl Sunday, when almost no one is going to read it.
herring 123 (95)-
I wouldn’t kill you at all. In fact, I agree.
Just speaking for myself, I consciously went overweight gold, with full understanding of the potential downside (which is pretty big). Honestly, it’s much more of a wager than an investment.
A balanced portfolio of top-drawer companies that demonstrate consistent earnings and growth is always the ideal when investing for the long-term. Any deviation from that is gambling, pure and simple. I just happen to like to gamble once in a while.
Will be interesting to see, as the Stock Market corrects, which taxes Corzine will need to increase, to compensate for Pension Fund losses. One would think it would have to be a combination, as Property Taxes otherwise, would rise dramatically.
Where could I find tables detailing changes in cost of living over the decades – for instance comparing incomes and living standards in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s to today?
Cindy (97)-
Just a mess of epic proportions. Take the single story like that and multiply it by two million, and you get an idea of what’s coming down the pike.
And, many of my colleagues have taken to calling me irresponsible for mentioning this.
Interesting comment on NJ.com regarding The Hard Sell article. JB posted the article yesterday.
“Posted by reinvestor1 on 02/03/08 at 8:40AM”
“Real estate has been brought low by a conspiracy among certain individuals. The whole idea that there was some sort of “problem” with real estate prices gained currency with the advent of certain blogs that spread this. Bednar runs such a blog and I’m shocked that he’s included in this article. While he seems as if he might be a reasonable sort, many of the posters on his blog are extremely resentful that they did not buy when they should have. Many have a celebratory attitude over the misfortune of their fellow citizens. I call them housing terrorists as some of the posters are out and out radicals who hate this country and all it stands for. Whenever I’ve tried to point this out, I’ve been met with brickbats as they really don’t want to hear anything that does not conform with their worldview. Unless you’re into radical liberal political thought, don’t visit that blog. I’m tempted to name the handles here of the worst posters over there, but I’ll spare them for now.”
[Edit; please release the hounds]
“Look people, they aren’t making anymore real estate. Northern NJ is an extension of Manhattan which means the demographics have changed. That is why real estate is up and will continue its upward march. If you don’t buy now, it is at your own financial peril.”
Another question – lots of maps of subprime. Any NJ maps of ARM’s including prime? I think someone posted one a while ago, but I have no idea where to look for one.
(114) They can’t rent them now…and the ARMs haven’t even reset yet…
The resale market here is REALLY hurting with the builders offering 4.875% int. – 5 to 10 down IF you deal with their mortgage co. and if you close by 2-29. In the Bee today – Beazer Homes, de young properties and Lennar ads.
lisoosh (107)-
Yeah, the train’s pretty much way out of the station on the Euro. They’ve got a pile of crap to deal with over there that makes our situation look good in comparison.
Plus, I thought when Gisele asked for her redemptions in Euros and Jay Z flashed Euro notes in his last video, that was a pretty good sign of a “top” in the currency.
lis,
NY Fed has zip level data on subprime and alt-a.
http://www.ny.frb.org/regional/subprime.html
I believe this is probably the most recent, no-cost, dataset out right now. Most of the map-style graphical representations lag by a year or more.
It will be a race of the currencies to the bottom. Long asian short the bp, euro and us.
All disclaimers.
BC (120)-
Anyone with a brain bigger than a peanut might take pause at accepting the full faith and credit of the Eurozone.
Double dog disclaimers.
Hi all-
I just found this site and have really enjoyed reading the weekend postings.
I am a seller and a buyer. After having my house on the market for almost a yr, I am now selling at a loss. I am hoping to catch a break on the buying end. That being said, I was hoping you guys could give me some feedback on the following property in Morristown: MLS #2447185
My fiance and I saw this and liked it. There is a lot on the market right now in the area that we like but I wanted to get a feel for what would be a reasonable offer for this one.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
“BC Bob Says:
February 3rd, 2008 at 11:07 am
It will be a race of the currencies to the bottom. Long asian short the bp, euro and us.
All disclaimers.”
I wouldn’t touch Sterling with a barge pole. I have a UK account which is minimally stocked for vacations, family gifts etc. but that is it.
Anyone know anything about Russia? They seem to be going gangbusters right now.
Grim – Thanks. Bummer there is less than comprehensive info out there.
lisoosh (132)-
There’s a reason they call it Russian roulette.
BC Are you going with a basket of Asian currencies or do you have one in mind?
Grim, Clot, all others, my thanks for the knowledge and many laughs. If and when prices do return to some semblance of order, how much interference do relocation companies have in the ultimate sale price of a home? I am told, there is a ‘number’ and that number is tough to move. First thoughts on this was nonsense.
Many Thanks and Highest Regards.
119 grim,
Thanks for the link. The excel sheet provides number of houses financed through either Alt-A or subprime. I am trying to figure out what percentage of homes that are ALt-A or subprime.
How do we find out the total number of houses in a given city?
grim,
thanks for the info on the boonton place :)
A little superbowl housing fun. Check it out. In Jersey you can pay more for higher taxes and a much older and dare I say uglier home.
This article is out of CO, but still interesting and is happening in many parts along the eastcoast and NJ as well.
“Home equity borrowers get iced out”
http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_8146374
SAS
I went out this afternoon for some beer for the game. I noticed more than a few “open house” signs.
Open houses on Supoerbowl Sunday? Is this an act of Desperation?
okay, not sure if anyone is paying attention to this blog right now, (let alone open houses) as we get closer to kick off…but if someone is online, what is the difference between a “notice of settlement” vs “deed” in the property records?
TIA
Clotpoll says:
“Since when is one crummy agent a proxy for all of us? If it were one of my agents sitting that open house and that agent sat with you, showed you comps and honestly explained the current market, would it be reasonable to expect that you love us all?”
My wife and I re-located to CA and back to NJ in less than a 2 year span. During that time we have been through at least 4 brokers because of following reasons:
– filters for property characteristics from us aren’t same ones in system – “I don’t want you to miss anything” – Sorry, I thought that is what filter we provided was for
– practically had to get into screaming matches to get them to make reasonable offers and they worried about reputations for lowballing (despite no requests being below 93% of list)
– complete resistance to websites like Zillow – “oh, the comps on there are ridiciulous most of the time”
Funny thing, every broker we met told us we were with good, well respected ones. During last 2 weeks, we have been told by at least 5 different brokers that market is stabilizing. Over last 6 months, only 1 broker has stated that offers are tough to come by right now.
Areas we are looking in are in eastern Morris County.
OT question: can I change my party affiliation on Tuesday when voting in the primary?
134 Rachel
No, I don’t think so. You can change, but it’s a whole re-registration process I believe.
You also can’t vote in NJ if you’re not affiliated with a party.
73 re not using buyers agents
I can’t see how trying to go FSBO would be easier on a buyer. IMO, there are few great buyers agents out there, but there are some very nice and pleasant ones. The very good agents don’t stay as buyers agents(“tour guides.”)
Just use a buyers agent in your way. If they aren’t doing something as basic as sending you the listings and comps and extra information in a timely manner, returning your calls, fitting your schedule in terms of availability for showings, then, yeah, break it off with them. If you just don’t mesh with their personalities, break it off. These things are figured out pretty quickly, so no one wastes too much of anyone’s time.
There is so much information out there now that you can do a lot of research on your own. I would agree to take anything they say about the market with a grain of salt (or to totally ignore them!).
But how going solo as a buyer would make the process easier or more efficient or get a better deal for a buyer is beyond me.
131 Renting
Women like to have something to do during the SuperBowl.
That reinvestor post is high comedy. Great find. How many places do you think he’s underwater in? Three?
As for this guy …
bd Says:
February 3rd, 2008 at 11:28 am
I am a seller and a buyer. After having my house on the market for almost a yr, I am now selling at a loss. I am hoping to catch a break on the buying end.
Not understanding. You mean you want to sell and then buy? To each his own, but there is a NYT article linked above that suggests the market may not rebound for a few years. Why would you want to buy? If you must, good luck.
Ann Says:
February 3rd, 2008 at 4:06 pm
131 Renting
“Women like to have something to do during the SuperBowl.”
Like visit this blog.
Grim,
Here is a little Diddy on the Housing Bubble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivp4YqGCI-s
#138 Why would you want to buy?
Because there will be a lot of deals this Spring/Summer.
#96 grim: Prices fell a lot more than 9% last time.
Sean,
great video!
For those of you wondering if there are buyer’s agents willing to reduce their commission, check this out:
http://www.hungryagent.com
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=07052&mnp=31&typ=1&sid=fb97981e12574b03aa808fc39870be4c&pg=2&lid=1088401280&lsn=16&srcnt=79#Detail
grim
what is the price of this house?
it is in 38 redwood ave west orange nj 07052
they were askung last summer 749k by owner
then they lsited at 629k
grim
the land of this house is in an area that has good houses, and it is a double mland, In a good time they could be built 2 houses
Another Princeton team, led by professor Ed Felten, did essentially the same thing last fall with a Diebold touch-screen machine, obtained by secret means. In a demonstration for Congress, Felten rigged an electronic election so Benedict Arnold beat George Washington every time.
Be interesting to see who the NJ voting machines are set to pick in November.
OT…
best superbowl ever
Go Giants!!!
Well? We now have regional bragging rights. Thanks GIANTS!!!!
FYI:
Property values in the NY/NJ area will increase due to the Giants winning.
# 134 and 135 “OT question: can I change my party affiliation on Tuesday when voting in the primary?”
As I understand the current state of NJ election law: If you are a member of any party, you may only vote in the primary election for that party. BUT, if you are not registered to any party you may show up at the proper polling place and ask for a ballot for the party of your choice and vote in the primary; however, by doing so, you change your registration from unaffiliated to being registered in the party in whose primary you voted.
So, if you are a Dem; you only get to vote in the Dem primary. If you are a Rep; you only get to vote in the Rep primary. If undeclared, you may vote in either but then become a member. If you are a member of some other party, you get to stay home and let others make the choice for you.
Oh, yea. How about the end of THAT game.
wag (126)-
I’ve never found relo companies to be unreasonable on selling price. Part of their process is obtaining at least three separate appraisals on subject properties, so they are fully-armed with a pretty decent idea of a home’s current value. Plus, the relo company never wants to create a situation in which an employer has to ultimately buy a house that won’t sell. If a company repeatedly has to purchase homes from its employees, pretty soon that company will be looking for a new relo outfit.
bill (144)-
If those agents are so eager to cut their own throats, imagine what they’ll do with their clients’ money.
These guys will be oh, so willing to schlep buyers all over creation, gather comps and present and defend extreme lowball offers. And, on top of it all, pull off a great deal for the buyer and not get fully compensated. Yeah, right.
I’m sure there are plenty of street dog starving agents who will readily sign up for this “service”. The only thing is, is that who you want representing you?
Companies like this- along with myriad referral scams- are usually the last stop for the failing agent. What buyer cares about getting a “rebate”…when the rebate flows from having paid way too much, due to lack of care and diligence by the agent?
Sometimes, when you win, you lose.
bill (144)-
Also, in NJ, buyer agent kickbacks to the client are illegal.
Confused (147)-
I’m not so much worried about rigged voting machines as I am the rigged slate of candidates on the ballot.
Look at the list of corporate donors and amounts for the top tier candidates. Think that kind of loot doesn’t buy access and influence?
If you don’t, you’re kidding yourself.
The really exciting news tonight is that the Spring (non) selling season has begun!
After Spring ’06 and ’07, I can hardly contain my excitement. :P
#134 Rachel,
The deadline to change parties was in December ’07. If you are not currently registered with either party, you can show up and declare a party on Tuesday and you will be allowed to vote.
Paul Volcker endorses Obama
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama won the endorsement of former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker.
“It is only Barack Obama, in his person, in his ideas, in his ability to understand and to articulate both our needs and our hopes that provide the potential for strong and fresh leadership,” Volcker said in an e-mailed statement today.
…
Volcker said he had been “reluctant to engage in political campaigns,” and added, “The time has come to overcome that reluctance.”
“This signals important confidence in Obama’s ability to cope as president with whatever economic issues might come his way,” said Michael Graetz, a Yale University law professor who served in President George H.W. Bush’s Treasury Department.
159 “Tall Paul,” the last great Fed chair.
51 jmcdaddio – I had never seen that section of North Brunswick before and liked that it was it was far enough from Rt 27 and Rt 1 but not too far. I also liked that the houses were built in late 80s so the taxes were relatively lower but the houses were built and maintained very well.
58 Ann – The house is for my parents and brothers. They are interested in North Brunswick primarily because of proximity to a mosque in New Brunswick and because it also ends up being closer to the city. Both of my brothers commute to midtown Manhattan. Because they have been renting in Renaissance since they moved to Central NJ, they have gotten used to North Brunswick. I should tell them about the higher taxes and tell them to consider places in East Brunswick as well. South Brunswick might be a little south for them since they are obsessed with proximity to NY.
My own family (husband + 2 daughters) moved to NJ about a year and a half ago and primarily decided not to buy because of this blog. I also convinced my parents at that time to at least wait a year or so and check out areas themselves. My husband and I have decided to wait and rent for at least 2 more years. We’ll probably look to buy in the South Brunswick area ourselves when we are ready to buy.
62,63,64 Frank/Ann/Sybarite – I looked and saw that in 2000 nearby houses sold for about 300 K which after putting in an inflation calculator and doing year over year normal appreciation (I seriously don’t even know if I did any remote resemblance of normal calculations or just hodge podge of random pieces of information) but I came up with a number of about 415 K, based on the house I was going on. Since this has slightly larger area, I would say around 450 K as well.
Since my parents have about 100-150 K to put down, and they are older, it might make sense for them to buy given the low interest rates provided they can get it at 450 K.
I do not think the agent is on the same page. To test the waters, I just asked her how much she thinks it would go for. It was just listed (1/14) and she said it will go fast and I wouldn’t bid lower than 540! Yeah right!
I think we will wait it out for a couple months and see what happens with this house and also perhaps look into other areas like East Brunswick like you were saying. I just always thought EB taxes were higher because of a better school district.
Clotpoll & other investment experts –
What do you advise to do with 200-250 K in terms of investment instead of just leaving it in the bank? Please keep in mind that we cannot just just put it in a interest savings account and collect interest because of religious reasons. Yes – right now its’ been sitting there in non interest acct losing value. I wish we had invested in some gold a couple years ago.
Anyway, any other tips?
Thanks!
Answer: 18 – 1
I’ve been saying it for two weeks. Now can someone ask the question?
153 clot
exactly right
D@mn, but that was the best bowl game I’ve ever seen. Eli jams it down the throats of the critics!
162
I’ve noticed that, gary, but I don’t know what the question is (unless it’s: “what are the odds against my buying in the next 12 months?”)
Usually even I’m asleep by now but I’m too pumped up about the Giants!
Rabs-
Well, if your family is choosing location based on proximity to a mosque, I guess you don’t care about local dive bars. I’ll hold off on recommending liquor stores too. I rented at Renaissance in the past. This was before the stores came in – I think I would like it more now nice it is possible to walk to the stores from the apartments. Commuting to NYC from North Brunswick will get better if the train station gets built. Good luck with your house hunting!
rabs (161)-
If you can’t collect interest, maybe go into a super-conservative preferred stock that throws off a big dividend (does your religion consider dividends to be the same as interest?).
By having that kind of $$$ sitting around doing nothing, you’ve already taken a big loss. What, really, is the philosophical difference between interest, dividends and capitial gains on investment?
Gary,
Nice. Pat’s record for the year.
That was an amazing game!
161 rabs
That makes sense, if it is close to their mosque, that is a huge draw, along with an easier commute to NYC.
540! It doesn’t look like anything has ever sold on that street ever for over 535. Agents do that. They just want the number that will close the deal and of course, 540 would.
Good luck to them, it looks like a very nice house.
oh wow everyone was up late ..i thought i’d have to post on the next day’s thread!
165 jmacdaddio – yeah i don’t even know what a dive bar is ;)
166 clotpoll – yes i know it totally sucks to know that we’ve been just going at a loss…my dad is a very simple man when it comes to this kinda stuff and that’s why I’m trying to find a reasonable alternative for him…
We can invest in stocks..But they have to past certain criteria – like no alcohol or gambling or pornography promoting companies..and a couple other things i think..
I’m not sure of the difference between interest, capital gains, and dividends philosphically but I know that we’re allowed to profit from capital gains and dividends but not interest.
I would have just invested the money in the stock market but 1)I don’t really understand the market and 2) It seems to really not be doing well – so I don’t know..
I guess I’ll keep watching your insight over time since it seems from other people’s post that you know your stuff