Propaganda Points

Ever wonder why every Realtor seems to be parroting the same asinine lines? Below is a media talking points document distributed by a local Realtor board. Board details redacted, but you’ll get the point. I’d estimate a good three quarters of Realtors would ever question the statements contained in these documents and would simply repeat them when questions, as directed by the Board.

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164 Responses to Propaganda Points

  1. Shore Guy says:

    They are Borg?

  2. grim says:

    From the Daily Record:

    Indictment: Lincoln Pk. company lied about leaking tanks

    The former operator of a heating oil tank removal company based in Lincoln Park was indicted Tuesday on charges of defrauding hundreds of clients over a two-year period by falsifying test results to generate business for his firm.

    “We charge that this defendant systematically defrauded clients by falsifying test results to generate business,” state Attorney General Anne Milgram said in a statement. “This defendant preyed on the fears of customers who were worried about the potential liability posed by a leaking underground tank.”

  3. grim says:


    Pulte Homes and Centex to merge. Pulte purchasing Centex, all stock deal.

  4. safeashouses says:

    Why doesn’t the media ask these clowns what happens to re value if interest rates go up or why are 7% of mgts 30 days or more delinquent?

    I guess that would take knowledge and/orindependent thought to ask that. Much easier to be a cheerleader and yes man. Wouldn’t want to upset the advertisers or the sheeple.

  5. DL says:

    And if you don’t parrot the party line, there will be consequences.

  6. grim says:

    #4 – Same reason you see crap like this:

    From the AP:

    Casino big: Don’t discuss economy with gamblers

    Don’t discuss the economy with customers.

    That’s the recommendation from the head of the city’s Casino Association, who warns that talking with gamblers about how bad the economy is can be a losing proposition.

    Joe Corbo, president of the Casino Association of New Jersey, said Atlantic City casinos have been hit hard, just as other businesses have nationwide. In a monthly column in Casino Connection, Corbo says the last thing gamblers need to be reminded of is the tanking stock market or how much money they have lost recently.

    Making small talk with customers about the current national concern may seem like a good way to bond with them, but “not really,” Corbo says.

    “Our customers come here to escape. They don’t want to be reminded of declining 401(k) balances or investment portfolios,” he wrote. “If we engage them in discussion about the economy — or even worse, our personal circumstances — we’re reminding them of the very things they’re trying to forget.”

    Instead, Corbo recommends politely changing the subject and suggesting customers forget their problems and enjoy themselves.

  7. grim says:

    #5 – DL

    WOW! Super link..

  8. Shore Guy says:


    While clasified advertising (which used to be a cash cow for papers) has all but dried up — except for RE — I would not conclude that reporters’ failure to ask such questions and editors’ failure to insist that reporters ask such questions is based on a desire to cheerlead for an industry that spends lots of money in newspapers. Sad to say, I am persuaded that it is more a matter of not being smart enough to understand complex issues — especially economic issues . Investigative journalism — which requires smart people — has all but been abandoned by news organizations and what remains is “take-the-press-release-and-get-a-few-extra-statements-from-someone-local journalism.”

  9. safeashouses says:

    #8 Shore Guy,

    That lack of brains is the only bull market I know of.

    Don’t forget the clowns in D.C. who voted for ethanol, then were shocked at the spike in grain prices.

  10. safeashouses says:

    #6 grim,

    Amazing. Not talking about the economy will easily hide the drop in volume in the casinos.

  11. safeashouses says:

    #6 grim,

    Amazing. Not talking about the economy will easily hide the drop in volume in the casinos.

  12. Shore Guy says:

    About the Real Deal and journalism:

    Access is the currency of journalism. In my experience, media outlets are too timid and are afraid of TPTB. They are afraid of those who grant access. The Bush Administration was a master of that — refusing to allow the Washington Post access, not allowing the New York Times reporter to travel with the Secretary of Defense, not allowing officials to appear on CNN, etc.

    I have reasons to suspect that the pressure to avoid rocking the boat is even more severe on the local/regional level.

  13. Essex says:

    To all of my cyclist pals here…a new law to protect cyclists….seems to bring out the ‘hate’ of said two wheelers…

  14. Shore Guy says:

    In the middle of an article about gay marriage (from the Oogle News site), I found the following statement relevant to RE:

    “‘You’ve got an electorate already [angry] about the economy, and even though some indicators are turning around, there seems to be universal agreement that unemployment will continue to rise for three to five quarters, so people will continue to have angst over the economy,’ said Carl Forti, a Republican consultant with the Blackrock Group. “

  15. Essex says:

    Shore…the thing is that ‘anger’ was always present in terms of the permanent underclass. It now extends to the decimated middle class. But do you really think the ‘powers that be’ care?

  16. Essex says:

    In fact ‘they’ have the guns….and more importantly…the artillery.

  17. DL says:

    CNBC calling housing bottom (yet) again. If only we could stop all this negative talk. (Is RE101 secretly employed by CNBC?)

    “So why am I slightly optimistic? Sentiment. Housing is largely driven by consumer sentiment; it is, after all, one of the most emotional (not to mention expensive) purchase for any individual or family. Buyers are definitely out, not just kicking the tires, but signing on the dotted line as well.”

  18. DL says:

    Clot: News you can use:
    “PARIS – French drinks company Pernod Ricard SA on Wednesday unveiled a debt reduction plan that includes raising euro1 billion ($1.3 billion) in fresh capital and selling off its Wild Turkey bourbon brand to Italy’s Gruppo Campari.”

  19. Cindy says:

    From Clusterstock: Elizabeth Warren COP’s April Report

    There are four keys to the success of any banking system rescue, when looking throughout history: transparency, assertiveness, accountability, and clarity.

    “The other key point, which we’re really glad Warren made, is that Tim Geithner’s strategy only works if this is a temporary, liquidity problem, rather than something more profound. That’s key. Few others in government are acknowledging that crucial point.”

    She doesn’t seem so mad today. But again mentions three choices: liquidation, conservatorship, government subsidies.

    I’m wondering if she was expecting the stress test results before she released the “report card.” Those, of course, are not available at this time.

  20. Cindy says:

    Real-Estate Industry Pushes Fed to Lengthen TALF Terms – WSJ

    “The real-estate industry is lobbying the Federal Reserve for modifications to a bailout program that the industry said may avert a wave of commercial-property defaults.”

    5 year term instead of 3 to help CRE

  21. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Bidders’ bounty? Storage unit auctions on the rise

    CHIGAGO – The auctioneer slides the steel door up, and a small crowd at the storage facility steps forward for a peek.

    They are here to bid on possessions left behind when the people who rented the storage unit on Chicago’s West Side stopped paying for it.

    The bidders are barred from entering the garage or touching its contents, so they stand on their toes to see as much as possible. Some shine flashlights inside, hoping to catch sight of a plasma TV or maybe a leather recliner.

  22. BC Bob says:

    From the reckoning, no link;

    During the go-go days (and nights) of the late nineties and early aughts, Manhattan’s “kept women” enjoyed 5-star lifestyles. But the disappearance of over-the-top pay packages has crimped the economics of under-the-covers liaisons. As Wall Street’s pampered professionals lose their perks, so do their girlfriends. Many of these privileged ladies must now adjust their lifestyles “down island,” so to speak. The posh, Upper East Side digs of 2007 are yielding to Lower East Side lofts and studios.

    Some of these gals are suffering such a severe drop in income and lifestyle that they are starting to resemble, dare I say, prostitutes. It’s humiliating. Sadly, these voiceless victims of the financial crisis possess almost no recourse. Either they accept a cut in pay or choose a new line of work, just like their boyfriends must do. But the transition away from high-priced prostitution to less lucrative lines of work can be very stressful. And it’s not easy for the girls to change their professions either.

    Even the fortunate members of the girlfriend elite who have survived this initial wave of layoffs face new stresses. They must now carefully consider the security of their revenue stream, and contemplate a vast new range of potential risks. They must ask themselves, “Does my boyfriend work for one of the big banks or does he work for a hedge fund? If he works for a bank, is the bank receiving TARP funding? If yes, is my boyfriend’s bonus ‘contractually obligated’ or discretionary? If no, can my boyfriend’s bank survive without bailout monies? If my boyfriend works for a hedge fund, is the fund suffering from poor performance in 2008? Or, if the fund’s numbers were good in 2008, were they also real? Who’s auditing this thing anyway? Is the auditing firm reputable or does it operate out of a small, dingy office in Florida?”

    Younger members of the girlfriend elite will also want to contemplate long-term economic trends, like the prospective path of the U.S. dollar relative to foreign currencies or gold. There’s almost nothing more tragic than devoting a lifetime to backbreaking labor, only to accumulate savings in a fatally flawed currency. Sure, you get to keep all the memories from a career of faithful service, but what happens to your golden years?

    So every highly compensated girlfriend owes it to herself to ask, “Would it be best to save money in dollars or euros or yen…or perhaps something more exotic like Brazilian reals?” After all, this is business.

  23. Cindy says:

    “Credit Swaps “Big Bang” Loosens Bank Grips as Pimco, Primus Gain”

    “JP Morgan Chase & Co., Goldman Sachs Group Inc., and the eight other banks that have dominated the credit-default swaps market for a decade are now ceding some power to their clients as regulators push for transparency.”

    “The overhaul, dubbed the “Big Bang” because it’s considered a cataclysmic shift for the market, aims to bring a fresh set of standards to existing and new trades.”

    “The 2,023 entities that had signed up as of late yesterday in New York, as measured by the International Swaps and Derivatives Association, will agree to abide by the committee’s decisions and auctions that determine the value of underlying securities. The auctions effectively set the size of the payout when borrowers default.”

    Sean – Does this mean we are headed down the right road RE: CDS?

  24. Essex says:

    22. “…The truth itself doesn’t have any name on it. To me. Each man has to find this for himself…” -Coltrane

  25. BC Bob says:

    Cindy [23],

    Stroke job. Pimpco?

    Who are the members of the ISDA? Want real transparency? Put the crap on an independent exchange, trade them as futures. Demand margin capital, for each position, initial and maintenance, and let each contract expire into cash on 2-3 month intervals. Otherwise, it’s all another smoke screen.

  26. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    That Elizabeth Warren is about to be interviewed on 710

  27. Cindy says:

    Grim – Here’s humor and New Jersey real estate:

    “Real Estate Site Mocks Ridiculous Listing Pics” – Star Ledger –

    This could have been 3b and Gary from yesterday…

  28. BC Bob says:


    Don’t mock Jersey City. You don’t want Gary hunting you down.

  29. Cindy says:

    (25) BC – Just me – looking for something tangible to believe in…
    thought I’d ask –

    They called it a “cataclysmic shift.”
    I should have known…

  30. Cindy says:

    (28) BC –

    Oh no, I just wanted him to know there is a site called “Lovely Listings” there in New Jersey that routinely finds real winners.

    I don’t want to do anything to get Gary mad at me! Sorry…Yikes!

  31. BC Bob says:

    Cindy [30],

    Only kidding. By the way, I was born in JC, as was half of NNJ.

  32. BC Bob says:

    “They called it a “cataclysmic shift.”


    Just another example of hiring the arsonists to put out the flaming inferno.

  33. Cindy says:

    “Somali Pirates Seize Ship: 21 Americans Aboard”

    “The vessel is the sixth to be seized within a week and the first with an all-American crew.”

    Uh oh, I don’t think the Somalis should have done that.

  34. grim says:

    Pulte doesn’t need Centex, Pulte needs Semtex…

    …to level the existing new homes inventory.

  35. Cindy says:

    (31) BC – Funny concept for a site, though. There are plenty of Cali homes to feature as well.

  36. Essex says:

    33….Heh heh….ready for a little Navy Seal exercise….GO GET EM BOYS!

  37. DL says:

    Cindy: If you want to gain an appreciation for the degree that home equity was abused, this site features stats on how much was extracted between sales.

  38. grim says:

    To all of my cyclist pals here…a new law to protect cyclists….seems to bring out the ‘hate’ of said two wheelers…

    As an avid cyclist that logs thousands of miles on the road every year, I do not support this legislation.

    In fact, I feel this kind of legislation is detrimental to the cycling community.

    Why? Because instead of treating bicycles as vehicles on the road, subject to the same laws that any other vehicle is, it creates an exclusion group, with a separate set of regulations.

    As such, it becomes very difficult to defend the right of cyclists to use the roads in the same manner as other vehicles.

    I have the same distaste for bicycle lanes on road. Why? Because once you create a bicycle lane, there is the assumption that bicycles now must be constrained to this lane. If I choose to ride on a parallel road, without a lane, and I’m involved in an incident, will the other party claim that I should have been riding on the other road, in the designated lane?

    If you can’t drive safely, you shouldn’t have a license. If you can’t ride a bike safely, you shouldn’t ride.

    Doesn’t our legal system already have the necessary facilities to deal with a driver who mows down a bicyclist, a pedestrian, or another vehicle in a negligent manner?

    The problem isn’t a lack of legislation, it is the lack of respect that New Jerseyans have for anyone or anything else on the road.

  39. Essex says:

    38…points well taken Grim. I have not had any issues myself…but then I rarely wear spandex and often give passing motorists the staredown. That and the fact that I would be a messy Clydesdale target for any driver, guaranteed to damage their car in an impact.

  40. grim says:

    The problem isn’t a lack of legislation, it is the lack of respect that New Jerseyans have for anyone or anything else on the road.

    This is directed at both motorists *and* cyclists.

  41. Cindy says:

    (37) DL – Thanks for the link. Of course we have “off the hook” unemployment here. These folks used “fake” money (MEW and CC) – businesses popped up or expanded to service these folks with the “fake” money – then poof. Mix that in with the mortgage/construction industry going down the drain and – that’s a lot of lost jobs and a lot of empty CRE.

  42. Cindy says:

    Yeah! Denninger likes Elizabeth Warren, too.

    “A *COP* Shows Up?”

  43. 3b says:

    They are still flipping ou there (believe it or not).

    The house listed below sold for 325K a month ago. Well here it is back on the market, new kitchen, paint, refinished floors spruced up landscaping and now it can be yours for 449k! (gary are you listening?) Hurry, hurry!

  44. Cindy says:

    Ooops – visiting grandson is up EARLY! See you tomorrow…

  45. veto says:

    todays wsj ‘property report’ section reads like a collection of essays entitled, “why commercial re will definately get a huge bailout”

    Strapped REITs Get Creative

    Credit Scarce, Firms Turn to Rights Issues, Assets Sales

    LONDON — While overall credit availability to the corporate sector has increased, the drought is continuing in commercial real estate, forcing borrowers, lenders and sellers to get creative.

    To make deals happen, real-estate investment trusts are either providing financing themselves or helping buyers find others to make loans.

    Some assets are being broken up and sold in smaller pieces because the market for larger deals has evaporated.

    “Big assets, which used to be very popular, are now facing restricted buyers due to a lack of lending,” said Andrew Renshaw, head of valuations at Jones Lang LaSalle.

    “The credit crunch has significantly reduced the availability of debt financing for property transactions. Some banks that are overexposed to the property market have effectively withdrawn from writing new business,” said Ed Daubeney, partner in Cushman & Wakefield’s corporate-finance team.

    “The balance sheet lenders that are still lending to the market now have far stricter loan criteria,” he said, “and are demanding higher margins and lower loan-to-value ratios.”

    As a result, global investment in commercial property fell 59% last year to $435 billion and is expected to slide further to $412 billion this year, according to Cushman & Wakefield.

  46. Al says:

    grim says:
    April 8, 2009 at 9:01 am
    The problem isn’t a lack of legislation, it is the lack of respect that New Jerseyans have for anyone or anything else on the road.

    Very consize and to the point.

    I would add that a lot of people transfer thsi lack of respect from driving to everyday life as well.

    Can we have a sign-up page for this statement???

  47. comrade nom deplume says:

    [27] cindy,

    Reminded me of Philly, where my daughter’s day care (above a police station, which was nice) was across the street from Philly’s juvie hall.

    The vans all had logos and said Juvenile Justice on the doors. And on the rear quarter panels, they had an additional message:

    “Our Children Are the Future”

    Considering the children within, that was a scary thought.

  48. sas says:

    “Investment losses hit public sector pensions”

    -The crisis facing pension plans for US state and municipal employees is deepening as investment losses deplete the resources of retirement funds for teachers, police officers, firefighters and other local government workers.

  49. comrade nom deplume says:

    Even NASCAR is getting its own bailout in the form of accelerated depreciation.

    No, I am not making this up.

    H. R. 1974

    To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to make permanent the depreciation classification of motorsports entertainment complexes.

    April 2, 2009

    Mr. THOMPSON of California (for himself, Mr. HELLER, Ms. BERKLEY, Mr. DAVIS of Alabama, Mr. LEWIS of Georgia, Mr. MEEK of Florida, Mr. BACHUS, Mrs. BONO MACK, Mr. BOUCHER, Mr. BRALEY of Iowa, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. CARSON of Indiana, Mr. COURTNEY, Ms. FOXX, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mrs. HALVORSON, Mr. HASTINGS of Washington, Mr. HILL, Ms. KOSMAS, Mr. LOBIONDO, Mr. MCHENRY, Mr. MCHUGH, Mr. MICA, Mr. MOORE of Kansas, Mrs. MYRICK, Mr. PERRIELLO, Mr. SCOTT of Georgia, Mr. SESSIONS, Mr. WESTMORELAND, and Mr. CROWLEY) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Ways and Means

    A BILL
    To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to make permanent the depreciation classification of motorsports entertainment complexes.

    Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

    This Act may be cited as the ‘Motorsports Fairness and Permanency Act of 2009’.

    Section 168(i)(15) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (defining motorsports entertainment complex) is amended by striking subparagraph (D).

    This bill essentially makes permanent the 7 year depreciable class life for racetracks, which had reverted to 39 year property in 2008.

  50. comrade nom deplume says:

    [43] 3b

    Actually, the current market creates decent conditions for flipping, if you can get a property cheaply enough. That said, I am not sure if we are at that point generally, but we may be at that point for selected properties.

  51. Jase Rion says:

    can i kindly ask someone to look up this listing for me? listing can be found on, Listing Number: 2910772

    thank you!

  52. Rich says:

    Flipping more today, homes from bank tapes at 10-20% of original loan.

  53. grim says:

    Wasn’t someone here talking about this yesterday?

    Lawsuits target ‘illegal’ mortgages

    With foreclosures on the rise, lawyers and homeowners are fighting back by arguing that lenders shouldn’t be allowed to foreclose on mortgages that broke truth-in-lending and consumer laws.

    “Not only do the banks want to be bailed out for making the most imprudent investments of modern economic times, but they want the courts to help them collect on illegal debt,” said attorney Joshua Denbeaux of Westwood, who is representing about a dozen New Jersey homeowners. “This is outrageous.”

    Peggy Jurow, a senior attorney at N.J. Legal Services’ anti-predatory lending program, said her agency is working with a number of distressed homeowners whose lenders broke the law. During the frenzy of the housing boom a few years ago, mortgage lenders and brokers used “sloppy practices, as well as downright fraud,” Jurow said.

  54. grim says:

    Flipping more today, homes from bank tapes at 10-20% of original loan.

    Hearing from builders that teardowns are starting to make sense again.

    Seeing small homes going for prices under what the land would have sold for two years back.

    With materials costs falling, building new homes is looking more and more profitable.

    Two years back, a 50×100 lot in North Jersey was $300k, minimum, much higher in more desirable towns.

    Today, I’m seeing those same lots for considerably less. Who cares if the home is trashed, it is going to be knocked down anyway.

  55. grim says:

    And let me tell you, it is very easy to underprice competition with new construction.

    You could buy a teardown and build a brand new house for less than an existing home of equivalent size these days (of course, assuming you play GC, chose fit/finish/fixtures wisely, and know how not to get shafted by subs).

  56. Stu says:

    Essex (39):

    “but then I rarely wear spandex”

    This is a good thing. I have a funny feeling that if you did don the spandex, cars would probably try to pick you off.

  57. NJGator says:

    OT Question since I know theres an expert in everything here. Anyone with SQL DBA expertise? We are getting error messages trying to port a table from one db into another while maintaining the original keys. Our IT dept is not helping me troubleshoot the error message (which references the ID field)since someone else built the table. Need help!

  58. Jase Rion says:

    help please! i’m looking for info for this listing, Listing Number: 2910772, on njmls.

    thanks in advance!!

  59. BC Bob says:

    “Flipping more today, homes from bank tapes at 10-20% of original loan.”


    I’m flipping lumber futures.

  60. Alap says:

    TEMECULA, Calif. – A gunman opened fire at a remote Korean Christian retreat center Tuesday night, leaving one person dead and at least three people injured, authorities said.

    Authorities were first called to the rural area about 7 p.m. after receiving reports about a man shooting his wife, California Highway Patrol spokesman Mario Lopez said.

    But investigators were still trying to learn the circumstances of the shootings, and were hindered by a language barrier in trying to sort out the facts, Riverside County Sheriff’s spokesman Dennis Gutierrez said.

    “We have some nuns that are very distraught,” he said.

    more shootings.

  61. grim says:

    107 Osprey Ct, Secaucus

    Originally listed at $659k in 2005, reduced down to $599k over 190 days. Older listing expired.

    Was also listed for lease in 2005, at $3,300/mo.

    Came back to the market in early March at $549k.

  62. Outofstater says:

    This could be trouble: Cyberspies penetrate electrical grid

  63. Jase Rion says:

    thanks, grim!

  64. SS says:


    While I’m no expert…

    If the two DBs are on the same subnet, can you just write a CREATE TABLE statement where you write the table to the target DB? Then assuming you have related tables, use the same script as above and write a CREATE INDEX statement on the primary/foreign key fields you’re relating?

  65. skep-tic says:

    many agents are stuck in a time warp where they still believe they can control all information relative to their market. their attempts to do so at this point are feeble and totally undermine their credibility. if you need to spin and lie to sell your product it is a sure sign that your product isn’t worth buying. I still cannot understand why brokers don’t just throw irrational sellers under the bus. What they want are transactions and if prices would crash quickly, they would get them (as is happening in California).

  66. Sean says:

    re #53- Grim from that Article there is a bigger issue, and the banks will be saving every nickel the have of TARP money to lobby Congress and fight these lawsuits in the courts.

    From the article:
    “State consumer fraud laws are another tool that can be used against questionable mortgages. Jurow said that under New Jersey law, “it’s a consumer fraud to lend to someone without regard to their ability to pay, or to give someone a loan that is destined to fail.”

    This is what Elliot Spitzer was complaining about to Congress on Feb 14 2008. States Rights in regulating National Banks for predatory lending before the Client #9 story came out about him in the NY Times on March 10th of 2008.

    Back in 2004-2005 period Spitzer fought a big legal battle with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency for stopping the States from regulating the National Banks and enforcing truth in lending and other state predatory laws.
    Spitzer lost that case in 2005, and then went onto testify on Feb 14th 2008 about it.

    Here is his original testimony.

    I wonder if the O’bama administration is going to continue where Bush administration left off in defending the national banks by having the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency sue the states.

    The State predatory lending laws go all the way back to colonial times when the New York’s Fraudulent Conveyance law created and establishing the legal principle that if a creditor makes a loan without having a clear and reasonable understanding of how the debtor can repay the money in the normal course of doing business, the loan is deemed to be predatory and therefore null and void. This law was originally used against the British Speculators in Colonial times. They had made loans to farmers and then called them and foreclosed on the farm before the farmer harvested and sold his crops to pay off the loans.

    I wonder what O’bama and Attorney General Eric Holder and Congress are going to do if Judges start declaring fraud and nullifying Mortgages this could get very messy.

  67. Qwerty says:

    RE: Hearing from builders that teardowns are starting to make sense again.

    Such builders would need a deep cash pool, since financing is scarce. Many builders are stuck carrying 2-3 prior flips that remain unsold, and are worth less each day.

    Are there many cash rich builders out there who aren’t sitting on one or more albatross properties, bleeding them dry?

  68. freedy says:

    teardowns,, where they going to start
    lodi and garfield,, start with a bulldozer blocks at a time.

  69. comrade nom deplume says:

    [60] alap,

    will be interested to see if the anti-gun lobby will be able to get sufficient time on MSM and with the WH to put together an initiative. Binghampton and Pittsburgh just haven’t been able to punch through sufficiently, unlike VA Tech some years back. There is too much other news so MSM cannot linger over this issue and whip up the masses.

    I have to think that WH, congressional liberals and GGGs have already coordinated their efforts somewhat, but without a lot of help from MSM, they are left to biding their time, waiting for an opening to push through federal anti-gun legislation. It’s drafted and waiting, they just need a sufficiently compelling crisis.

    That is what is so macabre about this business; the GGGs and congressional liberals know that they need a massacre to get their legislation in play, yet no one actually wants to see it happen (no one normal anyway).

  70. #57 – How odd. I’ve been having issues writing to tables in a Sybase DB for the past 2 days.

  71. kettle1 says:


    dont worry, thats just skynet preparing for its first strike. All of that planning eats up a lot of PC cycles and given that sky net AI is distributed across the entire web you may see some effects for the next few days while it crunches the numbers on its first strike strategy

  72. comrade nom deplume says:

    [66] sean,

    The state versus federal charters fight also goes back to near-colonial times.

    I expect O’bama to order FTC into the fray here. Otherwise, with states bashing holes in pre-emption, and passing their own legislation, you will see the patchwork that larger national and superregional banks have sought to do away with.

    Such a scenario may cause some larger banks to exit the direct mortgage biz altogether because smaller one-state lenders can undercut them using their own warehouse lines (which the majors cannot retract as that will invite all manner of lawsuits and DOJ involvement).

    Regardless of whether one or more majors exits direct mortgage lending, the direct, and indirect, results of state efforts would be to cause rates and/or fees to rise. Also, for reasons a bit too complex to get into here, it would further curtail CRA lending by the majors (though CRA lending has to have fallen off a cliff already).

  73. confused in nj says:

    The Government learned it’s lesson with Overt Prohibition with Alcohol when it had to Repeal that Act. It now use Covert Tax Increases to eliminate anything it considers sinful like Cigarettes, Alcohol and soon potentially Guns and Weight Producing Food Products. Interesting thing is they refuse to Legalize Narcotics, which they could then Tax out of Existence. Narcotics Prohibition doesn’t work. They must be getting a cut of the profits.

  74. #71 – I like the skynet theory as the root cause of the problem. And not, you know, my inability to properly spell the name of the table I’m trying to write to. It’s obvious that the DBs have become sentient and hate me….

  75. kettle1 says:

    73 confused,

    Consider what % of the criminal justice and penal system that would need to disappear if you legalized narcotics!

    even if we assume that the government does not reap profits from the illegal drug trade the sheer negative impact on the enforcement complex would be massive, you could probably cut the system by 60 – 70%

  76. Alishia says:

    Pulte Homes.
    Wall Street analysts are concerned about the risk .
    Pulte Homes

  77. HEHEHE says:

    A New Kind of Crowd
    The current crisis has changed the way that people think about a great many things.

    Before the unraveling began, a lot of Americans were convinced that savings were irrelevant and that having a lot of debt wasn’t something to be overly worried about. Many also envied and respected the movers-and-shakers on Wall Street and in corporate America. And finally, most likely believed that America was and would remain the undisputed economic, social, and political leader of the free world.

    Now, though, these and other beliefs have been called into question, including, as the Financial Times reveals in “Assistance Soars in US,” the demographic characteristics of today’s needy Americans.

  78. implosion08 says:

    Prett good take right here:

    Insolvency vs. Liquidity, or Austrians vs. Keynesians

  79. comrade nom deplume says:

    [73] confused

    I don’t know that the taxes are covert. What is covert are actions like the DoD cancelling their contracts with remanufacturers to sell them expended shell casings. The remanufacturers reloaded them and sold ammo cheaply to the public. The DoD action (under the guise of homeland security (really!)) was an indirect attempt to drive up the cost of ammo.

    Cigarette taxes are, by contrast, overt since we know that they are there. We pay them. What is disingenuous about them, however, is that the tax on regular cigarettes was not nearly as steep as that on cigars, and the tax on unrolled tobacco was ridiculously confiscatory. This suggests that they want to curtail smoking but don’t want to eliminate the tax revenue.

    Further, Big Tobacco apparently still has a lot of pull since the 2000% tax increase on unrolled cigarette tobacco (an industry that competes with Big Tobacco) was nothing like the 50% increase on cigarettes or the 500% increase on cigars. Now, to me that is slimy—the dems bash big tobacco on the one hand, but take their money and cut them a tax break that hurts their competitors on the other, is beneath contempt.

    Personally, I think that they should tax the crap out of cigarettes as that would make the source of the problem the source of the revenues as well. They know, however, that if they were serious about ending smoking, they would simply impose a steep tax on cigarettes. But they would collect next to nothing because of smuggling and GYO/RYO smokers.

  80. Seneca says:

    I hear Leni Riefenstahl is directing the NAR’s next commercial.

    “…price isn’t the only factor”

    So you should still talk people into more home than they can afford, current crisis be damned!

    “Buyers are realizing that they NEED housing that fits their lifestyle, regardless of market conditions.”

    This just means, look, you got a lot of STUFF and you need a place to put that stuff so skip the Cape Cod and buy my contractor buddies new palace with 4000 sq.ft. of space to toss your crap. Nevermind that the taxes are going from $10k to $15k next year.

    I need a Zomig.

  81. chicagofinance says:

    grim says:
    April 8, 2009 at 9:01 am
    The problem isn’t a lack of legislation, it is the lack of respect that New Jerseyans have for anyone or anything else on the road.

    This is directed at both motorists *and* cyclists.

    grim: You are the NJ equivalent of the movie Breaking Away with chest hair. Why don’t you just shave your legs and ride with the Italians?

  82. Rich says:


    To make a profit, I would need to buy the lot you described at no more than 150 to 200 max. I have not come across anythink like that yet in a good location.

  83. chicagofinance says:

    Opinions: cousin was sacked by the Ivy society….his best remaining options are BC or NYU….opinions anyone?

  84. skep-tic says:

    re: teardowns.

    I don’t think they make sense yet. There are a ton of luxury spec homes on the market, so even if you can build one now economically, you are still going to be competing with distressed sellers.

    On a non-builder level, prices for teardowns still seem too high to me to make sense for building anything but a very large house. If you want to teardown a 1500 sq ft cape to build a 2500 sq ft colonial, it just wouldn’t make sense cost-wise in my opinion. And if you are able to afford the 4000 sq ft mcmansion, there are already a lot of these available from distressed builders.

  85. comrade nom deplume says:

    [84] chifi


  86. BC Bob says:

    “BC or NYU….opinions anyone?”


    Is this a bear trap.

  87. skep-tic says:


    BC vs. NYU

    no meaningful difference reputation wise IMO. I would personally much rather go to BC because to me it seems more “normal” than NYU. Depends on what the kid’s interests are though

  88. Firestormik says:

    Cramer goes crazy again on SKF
    “There’s something fundamentally wrong with aggressively shorting a passive basket of stocks” he says, and points out you’d be better off shorting the worst individual companies instead of a basket containing both the good and the bad.

  89. HEHEHE says:

    “cousin was sacked by the Ivy society”

    You speak like that is a bad thing.

  90. Herring123 says:

    Re NYU – Stern or Arts and Sciences?

  91. Sean says:

    Shadow Foreclosure Inventory.

    “We believe there are in the neighborhood of 600,000 properties nationwide that banks have repossessed but not put on the market,” said Rick Sharga, vice president of RealtyTrac,

  92. Sean says:

    Shadow Foreclosure Inventory.

    “We believe there are in the neighborhood of 600,000 properties nationwide that banks have repossessed but not put on the market,” said Rick Sharga, vice president of RealtyTrac.

  93. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    Fitch Warns on $18.1B in Recent-Vintage CMBS

    Fitch Ratings said Wednesday that it had placed 532 classes from 50 fixed-rate CMBS conduit transactions from the 2006 through 2008 vintages on Rating Watch Negative — meaning downgrades are highly likely in the next few weeks for affected deals. The rating agency said a recent review of the expected economic conditions and their effect on CMBS performance led the firm to estimate performance closer to a ‘moderate to severe’ scenario the agency ahd outlined last July, with commercial property values falling as much as 35 percent.

  94. chicagofinance says:

    Herring123 says:
    April 8, 2009 at 1:02 pm
    Re NYU – Stern or Arts and Sciences?

    Amost sure A&S

  95. HEHEHE says:


    State schools are cheaper and they even have the same books

  96. Clotpoll says:

    DL (18)-

    I could use a tall, icy glass of pastis right about now.

  97. Clotpoll says:

    Cindy (20)-

    Move along. No conspiracy to see here…

    “The real-estate industry is lobbying the Federal Reserve for modifications to a bailout program that the industry said may avert a wave of commercial-property defaults.

    5 year term instead of 3 to help CRE”

  98. Sean says:

    SaS – if you are out there, there goes the Pension Money.

    Don’t know if this was discussed here but I think we missed this one from last weeekend.

    “”New Jersey’s beleaguered pension fund would buy troubled loans and securities – so-called “toxic assets” – as part of a Wall Street recovery plan discussed Friday with the head of the Federal Deposit Insurance Fund.

    “Bill Clark, director of the state’s Division of Investment, was among officials from at least 15 states who discussed the proposal with FDIC chairwoman Sheila Bair on Friday.””

  99. HEHEHE says:


    That there sounds like a Fantastic idea. Especially with pension money.

  100. Essex says:

    Derivative markets….an understandable explanation:

    Heidi is the proprietor of a bar in Detroit. In order to increase sales, she decides to allow her loyal customers – most of whom are unemployed alcoholics – to drink now but pay later. She keeps track of the drinks consumed on a ledger (thereby granting the customers loans).

    Word gets around about Heidi’s drink now pay later marketing strategy and as a result, increasing numbers of customers flood into Heidi’s bar and soon she has the largest sale volume for any bar in Detroit .

    By providing her customers’ freedom from immediate payment demands, Heidi gets no resistance when she substantially increases her prices for wine and beer, the most consumed beverages. Her sales volume increases massively.

    A young and dynamic vice-president at the local bank recognizes these customer debts as valuable future assets and increases Heidi’s borrowing limit..

    He sees no reason for undue concern since he has the debts of the alcoholics as collateral.

    At the bank’s corporate headquarters, expert traders transform these customer loans into DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS. These securities are then traded on security markets worldwide. Naive investors don’t really understand the securities being sold to them as AAA secured bonds are really the debts of unemployed alcoholics.

    Nevertheless, their prices continuously climb, and the securities become the top-selling items for some of the nation’s leading brokerage houses.

    One day, although the bond prices are still climbing, a risk manager at the bank (subsequently fired due to his negativity), decides that the time has come to demand payment on the debts incurred by the drinkers at Heidi’s bar.

    Heidi demands payment from her alcoholic patrons, but being unemployed, they cannot pay back their drinking debts. Therefore, Heidi cannot fulfill her loan obligations and claims bankruptcy.

    DRINKBOND and ALKIBOND drop in price by 90 %. PUKEBOND performs better, stabilizing in price after dropping by 80%. The decreased bond asset value destroys the banks liquidity and prevents it from issuing new loans.

    The suppliers of Heidi’s bar, having granted her generous payment extensions and having invested in the securities are faced with writing off her debt and losing over 80% on her bonds. Her wine supplier claims bankruptcy, her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor, who immediately closes the local plant and lays off 50 workers.

    The bank and brokerage houses are saved by the Government following dramatic round-the-clock negotiations by leaders from both political parties. The funds required for this bailout are obtained by a tax levied on employed middle-class non-drinkers.

    Finally an explanation I understand ….

  101. Stu says:

    “5 year term instead of 3 to help CRE”

    Simply further delaying the inevitable.

    This kind of reminds me of the Hooter’s song…’All you Zombies’

    All you zombies show your faces, (I know you’re out there)
    All you people in the street, (let’s see you)
    All you sittin’ in high places
    It’s all gonna fall on you.

    Well we can be hopeful about that last line, although I doubt that will ever happen. ;P

  102. chicagofinance says:

    HEHEHE says:
    April 8, 2009 at 2:05 pm
    Chi, State schools are cheaper and they even have the same books

    He can also go to UConn in-state.

  103. Stu says:

    “He can also go to UConn in-state.”

    Terrible basketball teams in that school.

  104. zieba says:

    98: so much good money thrown after bad. First the Lehman placement and now this.

  105. Stu says:

    Sean (98):

    “Toxic Assets/Toxic Waste”

    Perfect Together.

  106. freedy says:

    yes, yes ,, the trenton crowd looking out for the NJ taxpayers

  107. grim says:

    Derivative markets….an understandable explanation

    I see nothing in that story analogous to derivatives. Lots of securitization, but no derivatives.

  108. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Essex :100

    Finally an explanation I understand ….

    Post of the day, Thanks for that. Mind if I forward that to a friend ??

  109. grim says:

    We would need a paragraph, near then end, where a trader at Goldman Sachs spends a night in the bar and realizes the whole thing is a sham. The next morning he calls up a bookie at AIG and places a big bet on those Alkibonds defaulting (Credit Default Swap, CDS).

    The bookie at AIG, who also spent the night drinking heavily, completely underestimates the probability of default, and gives Goldman (who knows these things are going to fail) a sweetheart deal. Goldman, while having sold tons of Alkibonds into the market, no longer holds any. Nor does it need to, to place the bet.

    When those Alkibonds default, AIG is forced to borrow cash from Uncle Sam in order to pay Goldman their winnings. Goldman made money on the way up by selling the bonds, and made money on the way down by betting that they’d default. That year, the Goldman traders get a big bonus and move to Short Hills.

  110. skep-tic says:


    “He can also go to UConn in-state.”

    cost would be about half of BC or NYU. Again, depends on where this kid’s interests lie, but probably isn’t worth the additional $80-100k to go to BC or NYU. The difference could pay for graduate school.

  111. #107 – Lots of securitization, but no derivatives.

    Thanks Grim, I thought I was missing it.

  112. grim says:

    That year, the Goldman traders get a big bonus and move to Short Hills.

    Forgot one last piece, they lowballed. You really think these guys are dumb enough to pay asking?

  113. Rich says:

    A lot of banks shadow inventories have been bundled into REO tapes. Tapes are bid on and accepted. Transfers of ownership can sometimes take 3 to 6 months on half of the properties.

  114. Clotpoll says:

    Seneca (80)-

    I hear the working title is Triumph of the Dolt.

    “I hear Leni Riefenstahl is directing the NAR’s next commercial.”

  115. comrade nom deplume says:

    off topic alert. Yeah, I am really enjoying this one.

    “He had the right to remain silent, and should have used it. Yankees righthander Joba Chamberlain instead ripped New Yorkers as rude and city drivers as cutthroat after his drunken-driving arrest – before taking a boozy shot at pinstriped icon Yogi Berra. “No bull—-, he might not be as tall as the front of your car,” Chamberlain told the Nebraska state trooper who found an open bottle of Crown Royal sitting inside the hurler’s BMW. Chamberlain’s cracks were captured in an arrest video uncovered by It showed the 23-year-old going through a variety of sobriety tests and chatting amiably with Trooper Michael Grummert. “The biggest thing that I’ve noticed driving here and there is if you let somebody in, they open the window and say ‘thank you,’ ” Chamberlain said about getting behind the wheel in Nebraska. “In New York, they might hit you. Yeah, it’s a joke.” The video caught Chamberlain after he was pulled over last Oct. 18 for doing 70 mph in a 55 mph zone. Chamberlain was heading home from a local strip club when stopped.”

    Life is good!!!

  116. Shore Guy says:


    As far as colleges go, we all know NY is different.

  117. Shore Guy says:

    Heading home from a strip club in Nebraska? Where does he live?

  118. zieba says:


    Totally unrelated to this event but I am secretly wishing the new statium, the bloated payroll overhead and the seat pricing tip the Yankees organization into financial hardship as this Recession?-what-recession?! drags on.

  119. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    grim –

    That’s the finishing touch. Your last few paragraphs complete the story.

    We might have to bring it full circle by mentioning that the Treasury Dept which negotiated the taxpayer bailout benefitting Goldman was staffed by a bunch of ex-Goldmanites…….nah, no one would ever beleive THAT !!

  120. BC Bob says:

    nom [115],

    I’m glad they don’t have any of my comments on tape, when I was 23, after being tossed out of a Harvard Square bar.

    By the way, he was spot on.

  121. grim says:

    From the Staten Island Advance:

    7,000 city workers to lose jobs in latest round of budget cuts

    Just months after he ordered cuts to more than 9,000 jobs, Mayor Michael Bloomberg has asked city agencies to slash 7,000 more.

    In a letter sent to all agencies today, city Finance Director Mark Page said the economy “has continued to deteriorate,” leaving a larger budget deficit than anticipated. Page notes that about $750 million of the administration’s cost-cutting measures are dependent on things “over which we have little control” — depends on the unions’ willingness to renegotiate their contracts,
    healthcare and pension costs, and aid from the state Legislature.

    “Given the efficiencies we have already achieved, the next step will likely rely heavily on headcount reductions whether through attrition, or, as is more likely, through layoffs,” Page wrote.

    To save about $350 million, the administration is asking for another .5 percent cut from uniformed services, 1.5 percent from the Department of Education and 4 percent from all other agencies. That projects to about 7,000 job cuts, including non-city position, according to the Office of Management and Budget.

  122. freedy says:

    yankees and mets will appy for tarp money

    and get it.

  123. Essex says:

    108…Forward away!

  124. Hard Place says:

    Totally unrelated to this event but I am secretly wishing the new statium, the bloated payroll overhead and the seat pricing tip the Yankees organization into financial hardship as this Recession?-what-recession?! drags on.

    Totally agree. I’ve been a Yankees fan since I was five, but sports players have been overpaid like much of Wall Street. I’ve contributed by cancelling my sports channel, no ESPN, little buying of sports tickets (paid for maybe 4 tix in 5 years) and no licensed merchandise. If I want to enjoy the sport, I go out and play it. Maybe read about it online.

  125. chicagofinance says:

    comrade nom deplume says:
    April 8, 2009 at 3:10 pm
    off topic alert. Yeah, I am really enjoying this one.

    nom: I am really enjoying this one…
    Monday, April 6th

    M Teixeira 1B 4 0 0 0 1 0 5 .000

    C Sabathia (L, 0-1) 4.1 8 6 6 5 0 0 96-50 12.46

  126. Stu says:

    “tip the Yankees organization into financial hardship”

    Nah, the Steinbrenner’s will just raise the monthly fee that every cable subscriber in the tri-state area involuntarily pays monthly from $2 to $4. Don’t you think they could use a roof on the new house that that taxpayer built.

  127. Stu says:


    Met’s are undefeated and the Yankee’s are winless. Let’s see how long this can go. If the Yankee’s lose tonight, then it’s on to their 5th string starters. Oh happy days. Think they might be interested in Sheffield?

  128. grim says:

    From the Record:

    3 Bergen companies planning layoffs

    Three Bergen County companies will lay off 244 workers, starting in May, according to letters filed with the state.

    American Distribution Service Inc. of Ridgefield will cut 101 workers on May 12, the company’s Mar. 12 letter filed with the New Jersey Department of Labor and Workforce Development said.

    Cenveo Corp., a commercial envelope printer, said it will close its Carlstadt facility by May 18. The layoffs will cut 46 jobs and are due to “business downturn resulting in economic failure,” the letter said.

    Teterboro-based Electrochem, a technology solutions company, said it will lay off 97 workers as it transfers its operations to Raynham, Mass. The cuts will begin in May and be completed in October, the company said.

  129. schabadoo says:

    Think they might be interested in Sheffield?

    If the Mets ever let him play right field at Citi field, tivo it; it could be classic.

  130. Ben says:

    It’s ridiculous what athletes make today. I’m more than willing to bet that their salaries will ultimately sink their franchises if they haven’t already. Remember back when Michael Jordan won his first 3 titles? I think he was paid 2 or 3 million dollars at the time. These days, that’s closer the minimum you are allowed to pay a player in the NBA.

  131. Essex says:

    I read recently that 60% of pro athlete go bankrupt after they stop playing. They tend to invest in Hummer Dealerships and other such places.

  132. schabadoo says:

    What gets a lot of them is the child support payments based at their playing income level.

    The reigning king is Travis Henry.

  133. BC Bob says:

    chi [127],

    Wake me up when the fireworks go off.

  134. zieba says:

    RE: 133

    I work in the entertainment industry. Oh the stories I could tell you! From failed restaurants to barber shops and clothing lines that sell $795-$2,300 hooded sweatshirts.

    One of my partner’s guys was blowing through bi-weekly checks for $66,666 like it aint no thang…

    These save nothing, know nothing and are at the mercy of their managers and advisors; many of which are crooked as hell.

  135. BC Bob says:

    “These save nothing, know nothing and are at the mercy of their managers and advisors; many of which are crooked as hell.”


    Yep, ask Mike Tyson, just one of a bunch. Then again, it was evil Wuth and Wobin at the helm.

  136. Ben says:

    “I read recently that 60% of pro athlete go bankrupt after they stop playing. They tend to invest in Hummer Dealerships and other such places.”

    You read wrong. Fact is, they are always bankrupt, no matter how much they make. They complain about how much they are struggling whenever the players went on strike. If you watch any documentary on a young kid who signs a fresh contract, you’ll see that they blow all their money as it comes in. ESPN did it with Sebastian Telfair. He signed a giant multimillion dollar shoe contract. When his first check came in, his first order of business was to buy a really expensive gold/diamond necklace and a BMW for his brother. The BMW went back to Coney Island to be parked in front of the projects while is Necklace went around his neck. You would think that his first order of business would have been to maybe buy a house in a safe area. No…that makes too much sense.

  137. Alap says:

    Top 5 Most Taxed States

    1. Vermont
    Population: 620,000
    Average tax burden per person: $3,861

    2. Hawaii
    Population: 1.29 million
    Average tax burden per person: $3,856

    3. Connecticut
    Population: 3.5 million
    Average tax burden per person: $3,596

    4. Minnesota
    Population: 5.2 million
    Average tax burden per person: $3,203

    5. New Jersey
    Population: 8.7 million
    Average tax burden per person: $3,024

  138. skep-tic says:


    “buy a really expensive gold/diamond necklace”

    isn’t this the rough equivalent of many on this board’s investment strategy?

  139. chicagofinance says:

    schabadoo says:
    April 8, 2009 at 4:33 pm
    What gets a lot of them is the child support payments based at their playing income level.
    The reigning king is Travis Henry.

    schabs: I thought it was Spawn Kemp?

  140. BC Bob says:

    “isn’t this the rough equivalent of many on this board’s investment strategy?”


    Not mine. It’s a currency to me.

  141. skep-tic says:

    BC– think of the Mr. T look as a version of talking your book.

  142. comrade nom deplume says:

    [122] BC

    Which bar?

  143. BC Bob says:

    skep [145],

    No, not close. I actually picture printing presses going 24 hours a day, across the world. It’s the great debasement of paper, the race to the pits.

  144. BC Bob says:

    “Which bar?”


    Is the better question which bar did not?

  145. Sean says:

    re #135 Nope.. Cavin Murphy had 14 llegitimate Kids


  146. BC Bob says:

    Sean [149],

    I saw him dribble up and down the court with 2 basketballs, lefty and righty, at the same time. There was nobdoy, dribbling one ball, that could beat him. He also knew how to twirl the baton, no pun.

  147. BC Bob says:


  148. comrade nom deplume says:

    [148] BC

    Now, as a BC alum, I suspect The Boathouse was your No. 1 toss joint, followed by The Bow and Arrow and The Hong Kong.

    If you tell me The Ha’ Penny pub, you have clearly dated yourself.

    If you say Plough and Stars, that isn’t really Harvard Square. And if you tell me Man Ray or the Cantab Lounge, well, you were too drunk to know where you were.

  149. Alap says:

    From CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider
    Has public opinion shifted on gun control?
    Has public opinion shifted on gun control?

    (CNN) — Has public opinion shifted on gun control?

    Yes. And in a very surprising way.

    Binghamton . . . Pittsburgh . . . Oakland . . . Samson, Alabama . . . Carthage, North Carolina . . . sensational incidents of gun violence all over the country.

    Are we seeing an impact on public opinion?

    Since 2001, a majority of Americans has favored stricter gun laws. Though support has been trending slightly down. Eight years ago, 54 percent of Americans wanted stricter gun laws compared to 50 percent in 2007, according to a Gallup poll.

    And now? A sharp, sudden drop. Only 39 percent of Americans now favor stricter gun laws.

    It may have to do with the President Obama and the new administration.

    “If he and the people in control of Congress right now could have what they want, they would heavily restrict or eliminate guns from this country,” said Sean Healy, an attorney who has advocated on behalf of gun rights. At the moment, the country is seeing a surge in gun sales.

    Or Americans may have heard what the new attorney general said. “There are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstate the ban on the sale of assault weapons,” said Attorney General Eric Holder in February.

    They may have also heard what the new secretary of state said about the ban.

    “I, as a senator, supported measures to try and reinstate it. Politically, that is a very big hurdle in our congress. But there may be some approaches that could be acceptable and we are exploring those,” Clinton said in March.

    Support for tougher gun laws has held fairly steady among Democrats, but the sharp drop has been among Independents and Republicans, where there are fewer Obama supporters.

    Among Republicans, only 33 percent support stricter gun laws now compared to 50 percent in 2007, according to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey. Among independents, support has dropped from 34 percent to 21 percent.

    The Gallup poll reveals a gradual, long-term decline in support for gun control from the early 1990s to 2008. That coincides with a decline in the murder rate. But this year’s sudden drop seems to be influenced by politics.

  150. comrade nom deplume says:

    [153] alap

    Interesting. I noticed that CNN is the only MSM outlet trying to keep up the drumbeat on this issue (though one story they ran was in conjunction with Time). This is the third story that they ran today on gun control and the recent shooting.

    Further to that story in Time. I still did not get my order from Ruger, and I got it in before the inauguration. Have to check to see if it was backordered due to unbelievable demand or simply fell through the cracks.

    Did get my shipment of metals though. Not buying gold when brass and lead are the metals I should have in my portfolio.

  151. sas says:

    “Housing collapse drives up consumer bankruptcies”

  152. sas says:

    “Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing”

  153. Sastry says:


    One reason I can think of for lower gun control: people are probably more worried about jobs and not so much on gun control. In a bigger scheme of things, gun control (as of now) is probably a lower priority issue. Sort of like the Iraq war.

    On a side note about changing degrees of support on issues — anyone here that cheered the war and now regrets (not due to the strategy, but more at a basic level that it was a wrong that cost a few hundred thousand lives)?


  154. sas says:

    another interesting story out of the Denver wire:

    “Local money manager accused of running Ponzi scheme”

    If anyone out there follows my posts, you will know that I believe fraud & corruption is more prevelant than most want to admit & that if there will ever be an “economic recovery” much fraud will have to be purged. Not an easy thing to do since your 401k & pensions funds depends on it. so you best thank your local drug dealer next time your 401k gets back in the green.

    however, with little stories like this one, and all the other stories starting to start to pop up, one can argue this is a return to free markets.

    Why? for fraud to work, as odd as it may sound, there has to be a certain level of trust in order to carry it out.

    No trust, people are skeptical about pricing & investments, harder to fool, and more educated about their purchases.

    but, thats the last thing the so called system want: you to be a rational consumer.

    just my 2 cents.

  155. sas says:

    “I believe fraud & corruption is more prevelant”

    take that back. I don’t believe, I know.
    How do I know?

    ha ha ha….
    buzz off DHS.


  156. grim says:

    New Thread!


  157. comrade nom deplume says:

    [157] sastry

    Actually, I think the schneider piece Alap posted hits it on the head. Precisely dead on.

    As for the war, you may be surprised to learn that I was against it from the outset, though not for the same reasons you might have been against it. My sentiment at the time was that it was a bad idea but if we are in it, let’s win it. But I knew that it had a high probability of political failure (not military failure. There we succeeded. But we don’t live in a world where folks distinguish between armies fighting each other and insurgency during occupation, thus military and political success are not different things anymore).

    As you might gather, I wasn’t as much against the war as I was against the occupation. That had disaster written all over it from the start. The Iraqi system utterly collapsed, and that surprised everyone, but it might not have if we pulled out immediately after accomplishing military objectives. Staying was a mistake and, from his comments at that time, I think even Rumsfeld knew it would not be a good thing.

  158. Clotpoll says:

    Sean (100)-

    Of all the preposterous things the idiots who run NJ’s pensions have done, this one takes the cake.

    We are all bagholders now. The US gubmint has identified us as being the biggest dupes on Earth.

  159. samgoody says:

    Unfortunatly, I would tend to agree that fraud & corruption are prevalent.

  160. fasnr tb03j says:

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