Turnaround by 20 … 19?

From Bloomberg:

New Jersey Won’t Recover Job Losses Until 2019, Rutgers Finds

New Jersey, its jobless rate at a 32-year high, won’t exceed its pre-recession employment for a decade, Rutgers University economists predict.

The state will begin recovering in 2011, yet will require until 2019 to surpass by 118,000 jobs the 2007 employment peak, said Rutgers economist Nancy Mantell, director of the Rutgers Economic Advisory Service, said.

“The country, in contrast, will begin job expansion three years earlier, at the beginning of 2013,” Mantell said in a statement yesterday. “By 2019, it will have 7.7 percent more jobs than at the previous peak.”

New Jersey, the most densely populated U.S. state, entered the recession in January 2008, one month after the nation as a whole, and has lost 161,300 jobs, or 4 percent, of its employment base, Mantell said.

During the first year of the economic crisis, the state shed jobs at a rate comparable to the national figure. In 2009, the pace slowed to 1.8 percent, compared with 2.9 percent nationally.

The New Jersey jobless rate was 9.8 percent in September, up from 4.5 in December 2007, according to state Department of Labor and Workforce Development figures. The national rate is also 9.8 percent. New Jersey currently has 3.9 million non-farm jobs, according to state figures. In December 2007 it had a record-high 4.1 million, the state labor department reported.

The nonpartisan Office of Legislative Services projects the state will confront a deficit of as much as $8 billion next year as rising unemployment and damped consumer spending depress tax receipts. The revenue gap is more than 25 percent of the $29 billion budget enacted in June by Governor Jon Corzine.

Tax and fee collections for the quarter ended Sept. 30 fell $190 million, or 3.1 percent, below estimates, Treasurer David Rousseau said. Corzine ordered $200 million in cuts and directed his cabinet members to identify another $200 million in reductions.

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453 Responses to Turnaround by 20 … 19?

  1. Essex says:

    Having a job. It’s not just for breakfast anymore.

  2. SG says:

    The Warning

    “We didn’t truly know the dangers of the market, because it was a dark market,” says Brooksley Born, the head of an obscure federal regulatory agency — the Commodity Futures Trading Commission [CFTC] — who not only warned of the potential for economic meltdown in the late 1990s, but also tried to convince the country’s key economic powerbrokers to take actions that could have helped avert the crisis. “They were totally opposed to it,” Born says. “That puzzled me. What was it that was in this market that had to be hidden?”

  3. yo'me says:

    October 29, 2009
    Vacancy Rates Hit New Record

    You probably heard it here first, but you shouldn’t have. The rental vacancy rate jumped 0.5 percentage points in the third quarter, while the vacancy rate for ownership units edged up 0.1 percentage point. The long and short is that we have never had such a large glut of housing.

    The folks in Congress are giving people $8,000 to increase the rental vacancy rate (i.e. buy a home). Of course this will lead to lower rents, which could cause other potential homeowners to rent rather than own. It may also cause some landlords to convert their rental units into condos. In other words, this is really silly housing market policy.

    But hey, it’s just $8,000 and it’s not like we’re giving it to families to pay for their kids’ health care or food or anything.

    –Dean Baker

  4. SG says:

    MBAs Confront a Savage Job Market

    The MBA Class of 2009 was hit harder than expected by the recession. At some top schools, 1 in 5 are jobless 3 months after graduation.

    So much for entering job market with ton loads of debt

  5. yo'me says:

    People buying homes to prevent more glut on the market= rental vacancy.

    If more people are renting,rental rate stabilize=More homes sitting that will deppress prices. choices choices wich one is good?I will dis agree with Dean here.I will let rents to go down make it more affordable to people that can not afford to buy homes.Owning a house is not for everybody after all.

  6. yo'me says:

    The Trade Deficit and the Dollar: Another Washington Post Editorial in the News Section

    Folks who took econ 101 know that currency fluctuations are the mechanism through which trade imbalances adjust. Countries with trade deficits expect to see their currencies fall in value. This makes imports more expensive thereby reducing the amount it imports. A lower valued currency makes its exports cheaper in other countries, thereby increasing its exports. With lower imports and higher exports, the size of the trade deficit is reduced.

    This logic is pretty basic and not really disputed among economists. That is why it is striking to see a Washington Post piece on the fall in the value of the dollar that never once mentions the trade deficit. In keeping with the Post’s editorial policy, the article attributes the decline in the dollar to the fact that the U.S. has: “a rising budget deficit and few ways to bring it under control that investors see as viable.”

    Of course, there is no direct relationship between concerns over the deficit and the value of the dollar, but if investors were really losing confidence in the U.S. government, as claimed in the article, then we should expect to see a sharp rise in long-term interest rates on U.S. government bonds. We don’t. The interest rate on 10-year Treasury bonds is hovering near 3.5 percent, far lower than in the golden age of big budget surpluses. But hey, editorials aren’t expected to include all the evidence on the other side.

    The article also presents another fallacious horror story: “The risk remains of a full-blown run on the dollar that could force the Federal Reserve to suddenly raise interest rates, dealing a potentially severe blow to the U.S. recovery. That could happen if major holders of dollars, such as China and Japan, begin to sell off their holdings.”

    People who read the rest of the article know immediately why this story is absurd on its face. The rest of the article reports on how our trading partners are being hurt by the falling dollar.

    What would happen to Europe, Japan, and other countries if the dollar were to suddenly plunge by another 40 percent against their currencies? Their exports to the U.S. would collapse and their imports from the United States would soar, devastating their economies. Does anyone think these countries would allow this to happen? If the dollar started to plunge, it is the foreign central banks that would have to take the lead to stop the slide, not the Fed.

    Those of us who are concerned about the well-being of future generations are happy to see the dollar slide since this will reduce the trade deficit and therefore our level of indebtedness to other countries. The Post apparently is not in this group.

    –Dean Baker

  7. Essex says:

    6. I was always annoyed at the constant patriotic vitriol reserved for folks like me who thought Iraq was a completely stupid move.

  8. Schumpeter says:

    Pop goes the student loan business:

    “As long as government is willing to “help out” with student loans, universities and colleges will keep raising prices, and the total cost of an education will keep soaring until one day it blows sky high, just as happened with mortgages.

    Note that the loans are guaranteed by the government. Also note that student loans are not discharged in bankruptcy. Those two facts are all you need to understand why the financial industry as a whole consistently champions the promise of postsecondary education and its value to American society. No one really gives a damn about the students. Worse yet, were funding cut off, there would be student outrage over it when stopping funding is exactly what is needed to bring costs down.”


  9. rpatrick says:


    I thought most MBA students were full time employees aiming for advancement, so they had jobs while they were in school.

  10. r says:

    Godwin’s Law (also known as Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: “As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”[2][3] The term Godwin’s law can also refer to the tradition that whoever makes such a comparison is said to “lose” the debate.

    Godwin’s Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued,[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

    Although in one of its early forms Godwin’s Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads, wiki talk pages, and Twitter.

  11. Cindy says:


    TBP – “Geithner vs. Bair”

    “The oversight council described in the proposal currently lacks sufficient authority to effectively address systemic risks.” Sheila Bair

  12. All Hype says:

    For those who live near the Montclair area and would like to get our beloved Corzine re-elected, stop by campaign phone bank center on North Willow Street in downtown Montclair. Just 1 building away from Elevation Burger on North Willow Street.

    I lost my appetite when I saw the people manning the phones.

  13. frank says:

    Need a job?? Move to Australia, China or Mexico, anywhere but NJ.

  14. Painhrtz says:

    All Hype, throw up on them for me. I was chatting with your favourite auditor from Chi town yesterday LM, she asked me how you were doing. Said as far as I could tell OK. Strange times at our former employer. they are down to 7 in my old department.

  15. frank says:

    Go Corzine, he’s the only guy that can keep jobs and people away from NJ.

  16. Schumpeter says:

    Cindy (12)-

    This, from someone who thinks the SEC will never run out of money, since the gubmint will just spin the presses more should things get a bit tight:

    “The oversight council described in the proposal currently lacks sufficient authority to effectively address systemic risks.”

    -Sheila Bair

  17. Schumpeter says:

    In #17 , should read: FDIC.

  18. All Hype says:


    Tell LM that I am fine. Interesting that there are only 7 people left in your old department. I talked with a couple of guys from my old department yesterday (BB and LM) and they said that all the budget for next year is all tied up. Nothing ever changes over there…..

  19. Schumpeter says:

    hype (13)-

    Michael Savage is right about one thing: liberalism is a mental illness.

  20. Barbara says:

    6. Time and time again, that guy who cuts me off, drives wrecklessly then takes the handicap space has about 3 Americuh, f*ck yeah bumper stickers and if its a pickup, the eagle and flag motif on the back window.

  21. 3b says:

    #9 Until one day it blows sky high.

    I would say we should be there already.

  22. Cindy says:


    Clot – Remember, I had high hopes for this Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission too.

    I am one the “disheartened” referred to in the Noonan article posted by Chicago.

  23. Shore Guy says:

    CNN Breaking News

    “– White House says 650,000 jobs were created or saved by $150 billion in stimulus funds”

    Please check my Starbucks napkin math, does this work out to ober $250,000 per “saved” job?

  24. Shore Guy says:


    It looks like we are gerring ready to declare victory in Afghanistan sometime next year and come home. Perhaps right after the midterm elections?

  25. Barbara says:

    you all think you’ve got it bad, I have to do an elaborate face paint job in my car on my 6 yr old at 12 noon today. I have less than 15 mins to complete it and all his Halloween dreams that have been building up over the last month rest with me. *is stressed*

  26. #24 – 650,000 jobs were created or saved

    How do you quantify jobs being saved?
    I’m serious btw, how do they determine this?
    I know it could be just completely made up. Usually though, someone has some math and numbers somewhere. If for no other reason than to distract people asking this exact question.

  27. Word says:

    New Jersey’s home of doom and gloom

  28. Painhrtz says:

    all hype – I’m sure that healthcare reform will fix that. I guess they both went out to the midwest.

    then again I’m convinced most of the companies we have worked for are run by lobotomized monkeys.

    chat with you soon

  29. #28 – Thanks Cindy!

  30. safeashouses says:

    #13 All Hype,

    I did stop in that area a few weeks ago. Within 30 seconds there were 3 lovely teenagers/young men wearing shirts/hats with the same colors watching me and slowly approaching my car while they looked in the windows of every car in the parking lot. Surprisingly I left and did not wait for them to get next to me so we could discuss this Great Recession, the future of NJ housing, or the efficacy of various vaccines.

  31. Cindy says:


    A repost of the Noonan article from Chicago last night:
    “We’re Governed by Callous Children”

    How can we trust any of their numbers? I read a chart @ Clusterstock that said w/o CFC, the GDP growth would have been 1.89%. Why don’t they report that instead of pretending the 3.5% is the real deal.

  32. safeashouses says:

    #21 Barbara,

    also add the little fish symbol to that list.

  33. Barbara says:

    hehe I’ll see if I notice that one next time

  34. Shore Guy says:

    “New Jersey’s home of doom and gloom”

    Doom and gloom or clear thinking? How many of the regulat posters are deep in debt and about to go under vs. solvent and prepared toweather the economic storm?

    Just beacuse the masses ignore an impending threat does not make the ones who see the threat and try to call attention to the threat doom seekers; sometimes there is a wolf outside the door and sometimes the dike (dike, John, not dyke) does have a hole.

  35. 3b says:

    New Jersey’s home of doom and gloom

    The truth is the truth, doom and gloom as it might be.

  36. make money says:

    Cindy (33),

    We need another cash for clunkers type consumption handout and our GDP will show 4% next quater.

  37. Barbara says:

    we’re just goth

  38. 3b says:

    #33 Why don’t they report that instead of pretending the 3.5% is the real deal.

    Because they want you to believe that all is well, so that you will go to the malls and stimulate the economy this holiday season. Simple as that.

  39. Shore Guy says:

    “How do you quantify jobs being saved?
    I’m serious btw, how do they determine this?”

    The terms “whole cloth” and thin air come to mind. Even if one accepts the White House’s rosey numbers, it cost many times the median yearly income to “save/create” these jobs. If the number of saved or created jobs is half of what they assert, and it may not even be that high, we have spent over hald a million dollars per job. Gimme a freaking break.

  40. Cindy says:

    Make @39 – There ya go – Now we’re talking numbers.

    3b @41 – I believe you are onto something.

    Headline in my paper today:

    “Economy Shakes Doldrums”


  41. SG says:

    Where have the savers gone?

    The first and most important is the return available to saving. If as at present or in the 1970s, deposits and fixed-income investments provide savers with a return that is less than the rate of inflation, then savings rates are bound to decline. People won’t save because they are being penalized for doing so. This is why the expansive monetary policies favored by former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, his successor Ben Bernanke, and others are so misguided. A capitalist economy cannot survive if its risk-free rate of return is below or close to zero for prolonged periods because people will have no incentive to defer consumption and so capital will disappear. You only have to look at the unhappy fate suffered by the German Weimar Republic and various Latin American countries in bouts of hyperinflation to see the result of de-capitalizing the economy in this way.

    Argentina is for this reason no longer a rich country. Its people are perfectly industrious and 97.2% are literate, its education system is adequate, its natural resources are abundant, its climate is healthy, yet through bouts of hyperinflation, its governments have de-capitalized its economy. Without a recovery in the savings rate, the United States is heading down the Argentine route to perdition.

  42. Shore Guy says:


    If the government had sent you $1,000,000, do you think you could have hired more than 2-4 extra staff?

  43. ruggles says:

    “we’re just goth”

    where’s my black lipstick?

  44. #40 – You sure we’re not just emo?

  45. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [6] pol clot

    Interesting list. While the current admin. is displaying some fasc1st tendencies, by your measure, the prior admin. displayed just as many (albeit different) fasc1st tendencies.

    Guess that is why you have gone all black flag on us.

  46. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [47] tosh

    thanks for the flashback. Had to explain my outburst of laughter to the staff.

    My favorite Emo joke concerns a cup of nice hot coffee in the morning.

  47. Shore Guy says:


  48. ruggles says:

    “emo?” – head over to Hot Topic in your nearest mall. sort of a goth poser. IMO

  49. make money says:


    Interesting cartoon from the 1948 and funny how it all applies today, especially the ending.

  50. #50 – Shore – I offer this as way of explanation and diversion. Kinda NSFW.

  51. Shore Guy says:


    The current administration is naive, inept, and there may be some criminality amongst the economic team but the last adminiastation posed a more serious threat to liberty. I firmly believe that Cheney had all the personal characteristice necessary to act as a dictator. The current administraton mak bankrupt us, and may even lead to a loss of some territory, but I don’t think our essential rights are in danger; the miscreants who surrounded Bush were, in contrast, a threat to freedom.

  52. Shore Guy says:

    Is it pronounced like the bird emu?

  53. Cindy says:

    44- SG – Thanks for posting that.
    I’d love to earn 3% on a CD.

  54. Painhrtz says:

    Nom Henry Rollins Black Flag?

    TV Party !!

  55. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [254][last thread] meter

    Ideologue? Me? More evidence that you haven’t been paying attention. Or reading these posts for very long. If you did, you may be surprised to learn that you, me, and Shore aren’t that far apart.

    As you probably observed, I don’t go in much for name-calling. I prefer to go right to the after-school theatrics. When you want to man up, let me know.

  56. Painhrtz says:


    Emo – (EE Moe) definition teenagers in young adults acting as nihlists while living a perfectly happy suburban lifestyle. Music is typically crap see Dashboard Confessional.

  57. Shore Guy says:

    Either the B.O. administration is preparing for a big strategy shift in AfPak, or Clinton is positioning herself to challenge B.O. in 2012. If she leaves her job by early 2011, I bet she is considering a challenge. May you live in interesting times.

    From Reuters:

    SHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Friday defended her blunt talk on Pakistan, saying it was important to have an open relationship between the countries even if it meant some tough words.
    During a visit to Pakistan, Clinton said on Thursday it was “hard to believe” that no one in Pakistan’s government knew where al Qaeda leaders were hiding — her first public gripe on a trip aimed at turning around a strained U.S.-Pakistani relationship.
    She defended her comments in a series of morning television interviews aired in the United States on Friday.
    “I wanted to get that out on the table, because the Pakistanis have talked about a trust deficit and it’s a two-way street,” Clinton said in an interview shown on NBC’s “Today Show.” “We have questions, they have questions.”
    In an interview aired on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” Clinton said the two countries needed to be more open with each other.


  58. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [54] shore

    I disagree on the overall threat to liberty; rather, I think that they were nibbling at the margins. For example, much has been made of the Patriot Act but the Patriot Act largely codified a lot of regulation and guidance that Treasury and the security agencies had already been living by.

    More disturbing to me, however, was that some obvious illegality was openly admitted, and the blatant attempts to move the goalposts. When Bush discussed some of the surveillance programs, it was the Nixon-Frost moment for me all over again.

    Finally, as objectionable as some of the practices are, I don’t think that the current administration has discontinued many of them. Have Echelon and Carnivore been shut down?

  59. Shore Guy says:

    “teenagers in young adults acting as nihlists while living a perfectly happy suburban lifestyl”

    The only ones with the money or time available to do so. Soundds like self-indulgent and self-centered whining in halloween clothes. Four in the Corps would prompt a change in attitude.

  60. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [59] pain

    Darn. I thought he meant Emo Phillips.

  61. make money says:

    SG (44),

    The only question is what are you gonna do to prevent a lower standard of living for you and your family. You can’t worry about things that you can’t change but you should be accumulating hard assets while carring a maximum servicable USD donominated debt over the next 5 yrs.

    This is a good time to find an interest only loan for 5 yrs and buy anything real. You want to own agriculture and be able to produce a product that you can sell overseas in the next decade.

    Owe a depreciating asset class(USD) and own a appreciating asset class(hard assets) until you see that the trend changes.

    Financial System failed last year and we moved the losses to govt. Nothing has changed. Same old game, same old sheriff and same old characters. Only difference its us now on the hook.

    Happy Holloween and lets dress up and get drunk.

  62. Shore Guy says:


    I don’t recall which programs were shut down and which continue. The telecoms did receive protections from civil suits for allowing the USG access to teir data streams. With respect to threats to liberty, I think the current guys will use the tools they have been given; the other guys were both willing and eaget to use them in ever-more-intrusive ways to pry into and regulate personal spact, thought, and activities.

  63. # 62 – If we were going to be really honest, both emo and goth are refuges for uninteresting people who want attention but lack in the creativity or original thought that might garner it.
    Is short; boring people who dress funny to cover up their boringness. It’s understandable in teens, and almost cute sometimes given how hard they try.
    From adults though (and there are a lot still clinging to it in their 30’s) it’s just sad.

    This same exact argument could be applied to punk, hardcore, hippies, etc.

  64. Outofstater says:

    Glad I checked last night’s late posts. Great stuff ChiFi and Gator – thanks!

  65. John says:

    Amazing Jets sold 1,000 Coachs club PSLs yesterday when the lowered ticket prices from 400 to 195/245 and 500 to 295. 5k, 7.5k and 15K psls.

    For those who don’t know what PSLs are it is the right to buy tickets. You are paying 5K a seat so you can buy tickets at $200 a game. However, they are the best seats in house, without them you sit in worst seats.

    I love the ad stating half price tickets on 5K psls. Can you really cut prices on something that never sold cause it was over priced.

    But still, the cheapest coach PSL at ten games for a pair is 4k tickets and 10k for PSL, most expensive one with value pricing is tickets is 6K tickets with 30K psl. Sports tickets recession is over if you can sell 1,000 season tickets in one day priced between 7K and 21K.

    That said cheapo me is in the PSL free end zone next year at 95 a ticket. I guess I will duck when planes fly by but 950 dollars a seat versus 21K a seat is crazy. But hey it is a sign recession is ending and fools are spending money.

  66. Shore Guy says:


    I do have to say, though, that agood number of goth women have great taste in boots.

  67. Secondary Market says:

    maybe we should do sunshine fridays and post good news today.
    i’ll go first: my appraisal came in 10k higher than contract price. green shoots!

    3b says:
    October 30, 2009 at 9:08 am

    New Jersey’s home of doom and gloom

    The truth is the truth, doom and gloom as it might be.

  68. make money says:

    It’s great time to buy when a big time bond trader looks at Jets ticket sales as an leading economic indicator.

    Breaking news…Timmy G and the administartion declare victory that they have saved the economy by pointing out that Yankees ticket prices are fetching over 20K on StubHub and Congress is now looking into tax increases on MLB and it’s affilites and curtailing bonuses and player salaries.


    Forget about the economy and the recession and just tell your good old stories. Have you ever thought about writing a book?

  69. Shore Guy says:

    “maybe we should do sunshine fridays and post good news today”

    Humbug. The day is still young.

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [65] shore

    No doubt. However, for me, it comes down to which of the last two admins is more likely to use the current tools and tactics for domestic political purposes.

    All bleating about Valerie Plame aside (and the parties involved did eventually man up), I did not get the sense that the prior admin. used such tools in Nixonian ways against domestic political opposition, nor was I concerned that it would have. By contrast, this administration has given signals, and given its open belligerence toward political opposition, I don’t have the same level of comfort that the current admin. won’t restrain itself.

    Maybe it is wrong to conflate restrictions on personal liberties and commercial 1ntercourse with wiretapping, but I am not bothered more because Carnivore is capturing my emails because they say “bomb”, than I am that financial regulators have near unlimited power to go through, and rearrange, your financial and business lives, and are taking an ever-increasing role in telling you how to run your life.

    In the end, the technology and abilities are there, and no one is going to put the genie back in the bottle. The question, therefore, is which group do you trust to use these powers wisely? The last admin. did not use them wisely, but I trusted them not to use them against political oppo at home. I am not so willing to trust the current admin., which has already made clear that it considers whole segments of the populace to be metaphorical enemies of the state.

  71. Alap says:

    any thoughts/analysis on the white house saying 650k jobs created/”saved” via the stimulus?? of course they dont offer any stats on it, just tell us to believe in hope and change

  72. Shore Guy says:


    I do not share your view of the last administration. Bush himself may have been less willing to abuse the capabilities than say Cheney or Yoo (Yue?), but the cabal as a whole would have suspended every possible liberty in the guise of saving liberty.

    In the final analysis, whether Bush, Obama, or a future president, the People need to be less concerned with intentions than capabilities. An administration’s intentions can change overnight, therfore we need solid laws limiting capabilitieds to do harm to liberty.

    I would rather be poor and free than “well off” and living under the rule of a despot.

  73. Shore Guy says:

    “just tell us to believe in hope and change”

    I just hope I have some change left I’n my pocket when B.O. gets tired of spending $250,000-1,000,000 per job “created or saved” during his one term in office.

  74. d2b says:

    8. Essex- don’t question the govt. and eat your freedom fries.

  75. DL says:

    The irony is, as a nation we spend a lot of time lecturing everybody else about their forms of corruption while our politicans plunder our national treasury in the name of patronage and taking care of their cronies. When we finally dork our economy into FUBAR status, later generations will be asking the question, where did all the money go? As long as this political class keeps getting re-elected, (there are 435 Murthas in the House) we will be the only nation in the world to spend trillions of dollars with nothing to show for it.

  76. ruggles says:

    70 – “maybe we should do sunshine fridays and post good news today.
    i’ll go first: my appraisal came in 10k higher than contract price. green shoots!”

    No tax appeal for you!

  77. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [76] shore

    In extremis, if you want certainty, you are talking about shutting down the programs. Restricting capabilities is certainly possible, and that would absolutely prevent future abuses, in the same way that banning knives prevents cuts.

    We can do that, no question. The question is, will we? And my post suggests that we won’t. So, if we won’t, how to we regulate this? How do we, as you pointed out, limit the capabilities to do harm to liberty?

    First, you must decide what harms liberty? Is it harmed because your emails can be harvested? Or is it only when someone at NSA reads it an opens a file on you? Or is it when they send someone to your neighbors to see if you really know Schumpeter?

    In the end, it becomes a question of “who watches the watchers?”, an age-old problem. For me, because any regulatory scheme can be corrupted, it comes down to trust in the people you put in charge. That is, after all, the essence of putting someone in charge.

  78. 3b says:

    #`80 The homebuyer tax credit has been extended until April 2010, and expanded!!!

  79. 3b says:

    380 The homebuyer tax credit has been extended until April 2010, and expanded!!!

  80. Shore Guy says:

    Passed by both houses?

  81. Secondary Market says:

    we shall see, ruggles. i recent found the cherry hill tax formula online and the current assessed value is approx 50k more than the calculation on my new purchase price. i’m not sure what the net savings will be but it’s my first order of business as soon as i close in two weeks.

    ruggles says:
    October 30, 2009 at 10:45 am

    70 – “maybe we should do sunshine fridays and post good news today.
    i’ll go first: my appraisal came in 10k higher than contract price. green shoots!”

    No tax appeal for you!

  82. Shore Guy says:


    There must be sufficient penalties for abusing the tools. I think we should shoot U.S. citizens who spy against the U.S. (the foreigners, well, it is their duty to do so if it is in their nation’s interest to steal secrets from us). Likewise, those who use the tools to peer where theu should not, use the information inappropriately, etc., should do long stretches of hard labor while living in a sparse cell, and their suffering should be broadcast on the internet for all to see.

  83. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [8] essex

    Not every republican thought Iraq was a good idea.

    FWIW, there were quite a few of us who thought it was inadvisable for several reasons (though, admittedly, in my case, those reasons were different than the reasons that eventually became obvious (meaning that I wasn’t clairvoyant on the WMD thing—I got sucked in just like everyone else)).

  84. Qwerty says:

    RE: “jobs were created or saved”

    “Saved” — Orwell would be proud.

  85. Qwerty says:

    RE: “Not every republican thought Iraq was a good idea.”

    Similarly, the majority of Democrats thought it was a good idea.

    Senate roll call vote on bill title “Joint Resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq”


  86. 3b says:

    #85 Only a formality I am sure.

  87. meter says:

    “All bleating about Valerie Plame aside (and the parties involved did eventually man up)…”

    Funny. If by “man up” you mean “allow a scape goat (Scooter Libby) to take a prison rap.”

    Your abuse of the “man up” term has now been perfectly contextualized.

  88. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [90] qwerty

    Yes, and how quickly they forgot.

    I have a great deal of respect for those who voted their conscience and said no to Iraq. I have no respect for those who ran away from their vote. Worse than editorial cartoonists. At least they are paid to be inconsistent.

  89. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Seeing as we had threads on religion and emo,

    Here’s a religious joke from Emo Phillips

    “Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”

    He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”

    He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”

    Northern Conservativem Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.”

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    More religious jokes from Emo:

    When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realised, the Lord doesn’t work that way. So I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me … and I got it!

    · So I’m at the wailing wall, standing there like a moron, with my harpoon.”

    · A Mormon told me that they don’t drink coffee. I said, “A cup of coffee every day gives you wonderful benefits.” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Well, it keeps you from being Mormon …”

    · I’m not Catholic, but I gave up picking my belly button for lint.

    · When I was a kid my dad would say, “Emo, do you believe in the Lord?” I’d say, “Yes!” He’d say, “Then stand up and shout Hallelujah!” So I would … and I’d fall out of the roller coaster”

  91. meter says:

    @90. Fail – try again.

    Dems voting to allow the President the authority to invade were sending a message to Saddam Hussein that we were serious about compliance with weapons inspections.

    That is not the same as voting “we think it’s a good idea to invade Iraq.”

    That nuance seems to have been lost on idealogues.

  92. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [92] meter,

    Seems facts never get in the way of your stream of consciousness.

    Richard Armitrage admitted to being the source. Novak printed it (never in doubt)

    Libby was cleared of that charge, but was charged and convicted for false statements in the investigation.

    And any time you want to man up, let me know.

  93. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [96] meter

    BTW, its spelled “ideologue.”

    I think you aren’t smart enough to be condescending. Try another line of work.

  94. theo says:


    How about a real estate joke from Emo, quoting from memory…

    “I was born and raised in Downers Grove, Il.

    A lovely town.

    We had a blackout there the other night.


    the police made him get back in his car and go home.”

    Sorta reminds me of some of my Bergen County stomping grounds.

  95. ruggles says:

    86 – gator can correct me, but your sales price doesnt matter in tax appeals. its what your comps sell for. plus you have to get over the 15% hurdle/margin of error that the taxman is allowed and if the comps are showing 10k higher, that doesn’t help.

    But it is true that this year might be your only chance, a lot of towns are raising their tax ratios and devaluing houses. Cherry hill’s tax ratio looks like it went up 2.5% this past year. And if that pace continues, you’ll be totally out of luck unless prices plunge. Like me.

  96. make money says:

    Guys I need your help with this,

    We all know that gubmint doesn’t have any backbone and will continue to inflate endlesly. This means our number one export will continue to be USD and inflation until Gubmints from all over the world decide enough is enough.

    What if the gubmints from all over the world is also spineless. Who wants to face thirld world nation culture tax payers and say that they screwed up their savings. Doesn’t it make political sense for them to keep talking tough and do absolutely nothing. 7%-8% inflation annually run it’s course for a decade or so instead of FCUK USD one time revolt and start clean.

  97. John says:

    I have ADD, but I think I will write the first book ever on Twitter. Wonder how much I could sell it for. I can out short story Edger Allan Poe, we are both from Bronx so me and him are homies.

    Jets tickets due mean money is coming back. I sold some at begining at loss this season but secondary market prices rose weekly, even when them lost three in a row. Discretionary spending is an important indicator and nothing more discretionay that scalped tickets

    make money says:
    October 30, 2009 at 10:08 am
    It’s great time to buy when a big time bond trader looks at Jets ticket sales as an leading economic indicator.

    Breaking news…Timmy G and the administartion declare victory that they have saved the economy by pointing out that Yankees ticket prices are fetching over 20K on StubHub and Congress is now looking into tax increases on MLB and it’s affilites and curtailing bonuses and player salaries.


    Forget about the economy and the recession and just tell your good old stories. Have you ever thought about writing a book?

  98. 3b says:

    #103 And many of the ones who can least afford to pay the prices for the tickets are the ones paying them.

  99. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [96] meter

    one final thought before I get back to work: Your point about the resolution is well taken, but it isn’t the law. Read it for yourself.


    There is a difference btwn what the law is, and what you want it to be.

    Your interpretation suggests that Congress authorized the use of force but did not actually want it used.

    If you can convince a judge of that interpretation, I suggest you have a fine future as a Supreme Court litigator. But I personally don’t see it.

    Now, I gotta get back to the paying clients. Insult me again tomorrow.

  100. PGC says:

    #93 Got ball!

    “I have a great deal of respect for those who voted their conscience and said no to Iraq.”

    Take a look at the names on that Senate list and you can see why the Tea Party have Just awarded you another gold star for your RINO Badge.

  101. lisoosh says:

    #94 – Religious joke:

    Northern Ireland, during the Troubles, young militiaman stops a man walking down the street.

    “Protestant or Catholic?”

    “Neither”, replies the man. “I’m Jewish”.

    The militiaman thinks for a minute.

    “Catholic Jew or Protestant Jew?”.

  102. lisoosh says:

    John – trouble with you writing a book on Twitter is that much as I enjoy your streams of consciousness, it would take 15 Tweets for you to cover one sentence.

  103. Schumpeter says:

    Shore (76)-

    Too bad 95% of the US would rather live under a despot, as long as it didn’t interfere with network TV schedules and all-you-can-eat buffets aren’t outlawed.

    “I would rather be poor and free than “well off” and living under the rule of a despot.”

  104. John says:

    Shall I provide you wire instructions so you can send me all your cash?

    Schumpeter says:
    October 30, 2009 at 12:11 pm
    Shore (76)-

    Too bad 95% of the US would rather live under a despot, as long as it didn’t interfere with network TV schedules and all-you-can-eat buffets aren’t outlawed.

    “I would rather be poor and free than “well off” and living under the rule of a despot.”

  105. John says:

    That would work, I can sell my book one sentence at a time.

    lisoosh says:
    October 30, 2009 at 12:08 pm
    John – trouble with you writing a book on Twitter is that much as I enjoy your streams of consciousness, it would take 15 Tweets for you to cover one sentence.

  106. Nicholas says:

    I’m defending the stimulus spending because I see so many people here trashing what has been done.

    First, I don’t agree necessarily that this was the best use of the money. It saddles us with lots of debts and inefficiently doles out the money. I’m just taking the other side of the argument because I can see good points too.

    Only half of the stimulus money has been spent to date from what I understand. That halves the 250,000$ per job estimate above.

    Next, I expect that a considerable sum was spent on materials for the principle workers to do their job. Concrete, asphalt, steel, aluminum, and lumber slack were probably pulled out of the system due to the increased work.

    We can already see what slack inventory does to auto manufacturers and housing. You cannot slow/halt the production engine of the US without major problems and I’m sure the stimulus was designed to alleviate some of these problems.

    I think that the stimulus programs need to be looked at more objectively than just # of jobs created although that is definitely an important point.

  107. AsburyWill says:

    Good afternoon everyone,

    I’ve been a loyal lurker for about 2 years now and really respect everyone’s opinion on this site. I wanted to see what opinion some of the regulars may have on my situation.

    I’ve sort of been passively looking for a place for about a year now. I’m just sort of keeping my eyes out for a good deal in central Jersey. I have no immediate need to buy and have a pretty low month-to-month lease with a roommate on a house in Aberdeen. A friend of mine who works for a developer told me about one of his company’s active adult communities that has been allowed by the town (Marlboro) to sell 15% of the units at market rate allowing for no age restriction.

    I’m a 30 year old single guy and have some interest in a 1300 square foot 2 bed/2bath condo with garage under parking for $225K + $10K design studio credit and a 4% 30 year fixed mortgage through the developer.

    On the surface this sounds like a pretty good deal to me. There are obvious pros and cons to being a young guy in the community but the deed will state that the unit is non-age restricted and in the future I could sell it to anyone regardless of age.

    I’m leaning toward taking the plunge but just wanted to see what everyone thought.


  108. John says:

    The stimulus program worked great, landscapers, maids, nannies, fitness instructers, short hills mall, barneys, nail salon girls, cabana boys, shot girls, scalpers, BMW salesmen, gold diggers and Hampton RE agents will all get a boost when GS gives out 17 billion in bonus money.

  109. John says:

    If you don’t mind being fresh meat for the Cougars go for it.

    AsburyWill says:
    October 30, 2009 at 12:26 pm
    Good afternoon everyone,

    I’ve been a loyal lurker for about 2 years now and really respect everyone’s opinion on this site. I wanted to see what opinion some of the regulars may have on my situation.

  110. Shore Guy says:


    Can you put down 20%, pay all moving fees, closing costs, yadda yadda, and still have a year’s worth of expenses in the bank?

  111. Shore Guy says:

    Oh, and keep housing costs below 30% of 60% of your income? I say 60% in case of job loss and not being able to duplicate income.

  112. Schumpeter says:

    will (113)-

    Good luck getting a mortgage.

    BTW, any age-restricted joint that drops its restrictions may not exactly be well-capitalized. Be careful.

    In many places, planning boards are voting to allow age-restriction waivers, and the township takes the planning board to court to stop it.

    See River Trace in Branchburg, for example. Branchburg Twp v Branchburg Planning Board, in State Supreme Court…filed a few weeks ago.

  113. AsburyWill says:


    It’ll definitely give me a good chance to work on my grift…

  114. Schumpeter says:

    IMO, 55+ ain’t cougar. It’s close to necrophilia (unless the “doer” is over 50).

  115. Schumpeter says:

    Will (119)-

    Work your best grift on the mortgage company, once they see that there are scads of unsold units and a recent waiver of age restrictions.

    Phony/Fraudy/FHA rules have rendered a gazillion condos practically worthless.

  116. Schumpeter says:

    BTW, Branchburg Twp also slapped a lis pendens on River Trace, just to throw an extra wrench in the gears.

  117. AsburyWill says:


    Absolutely, I have the 20% down and will have more than enough left over to support expenses for a year. In order to provide full disclosure I must admit that my parent’s generously offered to pay my closing costs as a housewarming gift…


    I have a great credit score and received pre-approval for financing through the developer. I will, however, have to look into the court case you mentioned…

  118. make money says:


    Jets tickets profits are miniscule compared to Yankees. I couldn’t attend the last two games. Rang the register for $6K. Last series game 6 brought in 5K alone.

    I still can’t collect my rents. Greenshoots anyway?

  119. AsburyWill says:


    You are absolutely right about new FHA regs, I think they go into effect November 2nd?

  120. d2b says:

    BFF over/under- 3

    I’ll go under at 2. I think we are in for a soft week after last week. FDIC took it on the chin last week and I think that they want to stay out of the news this week.

  121. gary says:

    About 650,000 jobs have been saved or created under President Barack Obama’s economic stimulus plan, the White House said Friday, saying it is on track to reach the president’s goal of 3.5 million jobs by the end of next year.

    Why then, does the unemployment rate keep going up?

  122. Shore Guy says:


    Have you looked at a 15 or 20 year mtg instead of the 30? The 20 is not much different in monthly cost and it saves one a bundle in the long run. Also, a 20 where one pays an extra month of principal with each monthly payment (at least inthe erly years) shaves years off the term.

  123. John says:

    Yea but when you are going south of the mouth maybe you will find an old Babe Ruth World Series Ring.

    Schumpeter says:
    October 30, 2009 at 12:33 pm
    IMO, 55+ ain’t cougar. It’s close to necrophilia (unless the “doer” is over 50).

  124. Shore Guy says:

    early, too

  125. John says:

    But they suck your money right back in. I sold Sundays Dolphin tickets for $850 them Jets asked me for a $1,000 deposit on next years seats. Somehow the Jets put me in the hole for $150.

    make money says:
    October 30, 2009 at 12:39 pm

    Jets tickets profits are miniscule compared to Yankees. I couldn’t attend the last two games. Rang the register for $6K. Last series game 6 brought in 5K alone.

    I still can’t collect my rents. Greenshoots anyway?

  126. AsburyWill says:


    Sorry, missed your second question. Total housing cost including mortgage, association fee, est. taxes, and est. utilities would be 25% my gross excluding bonus.

  127. AsburyWill says:


    The developer is offering 30yr. fixed at 4%, it didn’t dawn on me to ask if they could do better on a 20. Good advice, I’ll ask and see what they say.

  128. Shore Guy says:

    With 15 million people within a three-hour drive of the Lincoln Tunnel, all one needs is a few folks for whom money is no object and a few knuckleheads for whom it is a consideration but who are either reckless or stupid in order to generate a hundred or so closinge each week at unsound prices — thus delaying the bubble’s deflation.

  129. Here 4 Now says:

    [#116] That is key in this economy. I wish our gov’t was doing more to encourage people to build an emergency fund instead of trying to get them to blow their money on the housing market casino.

    Make sure that 12 months of living expenses also factors in COBRA health insurance costs.

  130. Shore Guy says:

    “25% my gross excluding bonus.”

    Music to my ears, another sucker living with his means. What is this world coming to?

  131. Stu says:


    What’s that?

  132. Shore Guy says:

    Bonus= you get to keep working here another week?

  133. Shore Guy says:


  134. db says:

    is this as ggod as it gets ????Clunkers: Taxpayers paid $24,000 per car…http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/28/autos/clunkers_analysis/index.htm?cnn=yes.

  135. Schumpeter says:

    will (123)-

    Your DP and credit score don’t matter if the lender thinks you’re buying into a money pit.

    If you care about having any equity when you walk out of your closing, you may want to do a heckuva lot of due diligence on this developer, too.

  136. Poser says:

    #114, John,
    I always wanted to be a goldigger. Instead I became an accountant. In hindsight, not sure if it was the smart move.

  137. Schumpeter says:

    will (125)-

    For all intents and purposes, they’re in place now. Lenders don’t wait for- and don’t follow- FHA guidelines, anyway. FHA’s guidelines are much too lenient, so lenders impose their own.

  138. Schumpeter says:

    gary (127)-

    Get with the program, rube. A lie- repeated often enough- becomes the truth.

    What are you, some kind of foreigner?

  139. Schumpeter says:

    John (131)-

    Only you could be running a weekly arb on Jets tickets.

    In the end, those tix are all worthless. All you’re guaranteed in the end is to be sitting in the freezing rain, pissed off, surrounded by a 3/4 empty stadium full of booing drunks with your heart broken.

  140. Outofstater says:

    #120 Um, don’t you turn 50 on Christmas Day?

  141. Schumpeter says:

    Yes. Don’t call me Jesus, though.

  142. Outofstater says:

    #148 Don’t worry – that would never occur to me. Cassandra, maybe.

  143. Stu says:

    Grey Friday?

  144. Stu says:

    Someone hurry and announce that the recession ended again.

  145. still_looking says:


    Did someone yell “fire” at the NYSE??


  146. 3b says:

    #144 FHA’s guidelines are much too lenient, so lenders impose their own.

    If it is an FHA loan, why does it matter?

  147. Schumpeter says:

    sl (152)-

    Yeah. Lloyd Blankfein.

  148. Schumpeter says:

    3b (153)-

    First, the lenders know they will probably get stuck holding the bag on future defaults.

    Second, and more important, if a lender’s percentage of FHA defaults exceeds certain ratios, FHA will revoke the lender’s ability to do FHA loans.

  149. Schumpeter says:

    PGC (155)-

    I truly hope she ends up doing p0rn.

  150. John says:

    The roof the roof the roof is one fire we don’t need no water let the Motherf&cr burn, bury Motherf&cr burn.

    I went to a kindergarten graduation around two years ago and they were doing some kiddie games and the DJ actually player this song but left off the MF part. Now that was creepy. Rock Master Scott who sings this also wrote All Ni#### eat Pu### and women suck #### to the theme of tastes great, less filling. Guy is a true artist who deserves to be played at every kindergarten graduation.

  151. BC Bob says:

    “Did someone yell “fire” at the NYSE??”

    Actually, many just picked up a Eur/Yen chart. Not to beat a dead horse, currency dislocation will breed contagion. Sorry, Ben, try telling us that there will be no currency contagion.

    Gotta luv bogus GDP reports, help goose fractured markets.

    New game in town; pretend and extend.

  152. John says:

    I wish I was a gold digger too, I had a really rich one hook line and sinker when I was 29. However, I did not want to pull my lure out of the water yet as I had around five more good years left in me, if I could time travel would go for gold. Guy after me on purpose did not wear condom first time and hit gold and got a 100K wedding paid for by parents and a house.

  153. Danzud says:

    #131 – The Friday night Yankee plan finally paid off when I was able to play Stubhub switcheroo for several games with cheap tix to start each round. I got to the point of having tix two rows behind Legends for a sweet amount before selling those also for last Sunday’s game. The World Series sad to say has been too rich and too many scalpers/players to make it worth it except for my initial sale.

  154. Outofstater says:

    #159 Isn’t that John’s game?

  155. Qwerty says:

    meter @ 11:36 am,

    The fact that you could write such a statement, means you have drank far too much Kool Aid.

    You are the very definition of an ideologue.

    Rather than parrot absurd revisionist claims made by hack politicians on television, why not read the contents of the resolution for yourself:

    Joint Resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.



    “Dems voting to allow the President the authority to invade were sending a message to Saddam Hussein that we were serious about compliance with weapons inspections.”

  156. BC Bob says:

    OOS [162],

    Was waiting for that. Actually thought J would comment first.

  157. Outofstater says:

    #164 Laughing – I just beat him to it. Wait, maybe I should re-phrase…

  158. John says:

    Day trading tickets is a players dream. No margin and got 30 day float on card. Play on Player!

    Danzud says:
    October 30, 2009 at 1:53 pm
    #131 – The Friday night Yankee plan finally paid off when I was able to play Stubhub switcheroo for several games with cheap tix to start each round. I got to the point of having tix two rows behind Legends for a sweet amount before selling those also for last Sunday’s game. The World Series sad to say has been too rich and too many scalpers/players to make it worth it except for my initial sale.

  159. Alap says:

    161 – I sold my World Series tix @ face for yesterdays game. Only home playoff game I’ve missed so far this season. Trying to get my hands on tickets for this weekend in Illadelph. But looks like game 6 and possibly game 7 will be necessary, so I will def. be in the house for those.

  160. John says:

    Anyone with World Series ticket at face to triple face I will take a single or a pair. Game 6 or 7 needs John Boy there.

    The philly tickets are high, checking them out on Fansnap.com this morning.

  161. 3b says:

    #160 Man you are old.

  162. Shore Guy says:

    There are a handful of us geezers here.

  163. #170 – NYSE’s own Wombat feed handlers had crossed books? Imagine that.

  164. Alap says:

    168 – sorry, all 4 of mines for 6 & 7 are accounted for.

    I may be able to get you game 5 in Philly.

  165. Schumpeter says:

    Just like the good old days…riding SRS into the bell.

    Good times.

  166. meter says:

    @163 – Are you seriously claiming that Dems wanted to go to war with Iraq? Really?

    Please look up the word “authorize” in the dictionary. You obviously have its definition mistaken with “compel,” “force,” “encourage,” or something else entirely.

    Also reread the resolution and this time pay attention to the diplomacy aspect.

    Ultimately, I don’t expect you to understand the nuances, but one can always hope.

  167. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    re: earlier discussion. Good article in this month’s Washington Lawyer on use of privilege in cases against gov. for rendition, wiretap, etc. Reasonably balanced article considering the source (the DC bar association is so far left, it makes the NJ bar look like Cheney’s DoJ). Gives some decent background and perspective.

    Okay, back to work.

  168. still_looking says:

    PPT shrugging off the hangover and warming up the machines…


  169. BC Bob says:

    Schump [176],

    Go SPG.

    “Oct. 30 (Bloomberg) — Billionaire investor Wilbur L. Ross Jr., said today the U.S. is in the beginning of a “huge crash in commercial real estate.”

    “All of the components of real estate value are going in the wrong direction simultaneously,” said Ross, one of nine money managers participating in a government program to remove toxic assets from bank balance sheets. “Occupancy rates are going down. Rent rates are going down and the capitalization rate — the return that investors are demanding to buy a property — are going up.”

    “The American consumer will no longer be able to serve as the motor for the world economy,” said Soros, 79.


  170. John says:

    I don’t feel or look old, however I feel like I am on a large roller coaster that just crossed the highest peak and I am soon to be head straight down. Like Marrisa Tomme, Terri Hatcher and Courtney Cox, they are all mid 40’s and smoking hot!!! However the nex ten years is going to be brutal on their looks.

    3b says:
    October 30, 2009 at 2:23 pm
    #160 Man you are old.

  171. 3b says:

    #181 Oh come on, we know you have not seen your toes in 20 years.

  172. BC Bob says:

    Can’t be, what’s this guy on?

    “The payments may “amount to nothing less than a backdoor bailout of AIG’s creditors,” the California Republican said in the letters, citing an Oct. 27 Bloomberg article about the New York Fed’s role in settling AIG’s obligations. There are “serious questions about the transparency, accountability and wisdom of the New York Fed’s actions.”


  173. chicagofinance says:

    From a blog…..

    What is true about hemorrhoids and a Yankee cap?

    Sooner or later, every a%%hole has one…..

  174. BC Bob says:

    “you have not seen your toes in 20 years.”


    Can’t say the same for Pret or whatever his new logon name is.

  175. BC Bob says:

    “Sooner or later, every a%%hole has one…..”

    Does that mean that hemorrhoids are looming?

  176. BC Bob says:

    Nothing else matters in this whole wide world unless you’re in love with a Jersey Girl.


  177. chicagofinance says:

    John says:
    October 30, 2009 at 3:41 pm
    Like Marrisa Tomme, Terri Hatcher and Courtney Cox, they are all mid 40’s and smoking hot!!!

    JJ: Did you see Before the Devil Knows You Are Dead? or alternatively the Wrestler?

    Tomei? WTF? It’s sick!

  178. #188 – She’s naked for, roughly, %90 of her screen time in Before the Devil Knows You Are Dead.

    Good movie, somewhat dark though.

  179. james says:

    The European Union is picking their new president soon.

    They are also working on ways to help China and the US cut their greenhouse gases.

    Ill keep my religion and my guns thank you. You can keep your climate change fairy tales and BS healthcare reform.

  180. james says:

    When I expressed my disbelief that the proud Irish would accept such a deal I received the following response.

    “Go f@ck yourself you American twat.”

  181. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Thus far no failures. Still early yet for BFF.

    Will see if the expat list is posted yet.

  182. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Looks like we won’t need to have a debate on immigration reform:

    “In an unusually protracted and closely watched case, the Obama administration has recommended political asylum for a Guatemalan woman fleeing horrific abuse by her husband, the strongest signal yet that the administration is open to a variety of asylum claims from foreign women facing domestic abuse.
    The government’s assent, lawyers said, virtually ensures that the woman, Rody Alvarado Peña, will be allowed to remain in the United States after battling in immigration court since 1995.

    Immigration lawyers said the administration had taken a major step toward clarifying a murky area of asylum law and defining the legal grounds on which battered and sexually abused women in foreign countries could seek protection here.

    After 14 years of legal indecision, during which several immigration courts and three attorneys general considered Ms. Alvarado’s case, the Department of Homeland Security cleared the way for her in a one-paragraph document filed late Wednesday in immigration court in San Francisco. Ms. Alvarado, the department found, “is eligible for asylum and merits a grant of asylum as a matter of discretion. . . . .”

    I predict that spousal abuse is going to become epidemic 3rd world countries.

    Then, after the wives come and are naturalized, the husbands can come because they are married to Americans.

    There, problem solved.

  183. Sean says:

    Whew what a day, another Irish lad entered the world today, wife and baby boy are resting fine.

    Break out the cigars and have a drink on me folks!

  184. #196 – Sean – Congratulations!

  185. theo says:

    My wife came here the old fashioned way… illegal at age 9, wait for one of the once a decade amnesties… a little later get your citizenship… all for the privilege of paying 30k a year in taxes…

    not a bad deal

  186. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [196] sean

    Tell young Seamus, cead mille faillte from all of us at the board.

    And I’ll have that Guinness now. Slainte!

  187. meter says:

    @195 – this is one topic on which you and I will agree.

  188. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Gov steps in to run companies, wipe out stakeholders;

    Medical industry about to become de facto nationalized;

    Now this:


    “WASHINGTON — Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Thursday that his proposal to overhaul banking rules would give the government the ability to order even healthy companies to “shrink and separate” if their size or scope threatened the broader economy.

    His comments were the starkest admission yet from the Obama administration that the regulatory revamp working through Congress could lead to a drastic reshaping of financial institutions. That reflects a growing sentiment among some policy makers around the world, who believe the best way to prevent banks from being “too big to fail” is to prevent them from being big in the first place. . . .”

    Another step on the road to central planning.

    So, will the next industry to be turned into a public utility by this administration be utilities, gas and oil, telecoms or pharma? My money is on gas and oil—No IP to move offshore.

  189. theo says:

    just looks like anti-trust to me

  190. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [200] meter

    I suspect that there are many (I do read your posts). It is our respective styles and approaches that we disagree on.

  191. Danzud says:

    Congrats Sean! Just might have a Guinness tonight as a result.

  192. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [202] theo

    Antitrust laws haven’t changed from when banks were permitted to merge. If Bank A and Bank B wanted to merge, the market was unconcentrated, and they passed their HHI screen, typically there wasn’t a problem.

    Further, the purpose of antitrust law is to prevent anticompetitive behavior. That is not the focus of this financial reform effort. Here, the problem is not competition, it is institutional size.

    (full disclosure–I worked on getting bank mergers approved in the early part of this decade).

    Essentially, this would mean reimposing Glass-Steagall, in a new form, and repealing part of GLBA. Will that make London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, and Singapore the new financial centers of the banking world, and leave the US as just another big player? Probably, since no US bank would be among the largest institutions, and would miss out on the largest deals, except as part of syndicates.

    Remember, the goal of this administration is something called “sustained” or “steady state” economics, which means a flatter compensation range and slower economic activity in order to prevent boom and bust cycles. This does require an inordinate amount of central planning relative to our former structure. Further, it will be necessary for other administration goals, such as climate change, health care, and unionization. These cannot be easily achieved without controlling the economy, and I can easily foresee a larger goal of integrating these areas. That is why central planning has to be a focus of this administration. Without it, I cannot see how they accomplish anything.

  193. Essex says:


  194. james says:


    Congrats Sean! ill do just that. This is for you.


  195. NJCoast says:


    Best wishes to you and your family.

  196. relo says:

    114: Don’t forget call girls, coke dealers and the shrink visits that had to be pared down for a bit!

    113: Will, good luck, whatever you decide. Listen to Clot on the due diligence. I’m sure I’m not telling you anything you don’t know, but the developer isn’t changing the restrictions and offering 4% loans ’cause they’re nice guys. Opportunities are more easily made up than losses (Cramer, no less – broken clock theory). You’ll never be in a better position than you are right now, once you close, the developer will not be so available to you.

    Sean, congrats and best wishes.

  197. relo says:

    Soliciting opinions on Long Branch area. Friend of mine was offered a gig there. They would have to relocate from BC (let the disparagement commence!). Thanks in advance.

  198. james says:


    Long Branch by and large is a sh#thole. The waterfront is making a comeback but on the West you are surrounded by Hasidic Jews. On the North you have ghetto and on the South is Deal.

    There are a lot of good options in the surrounding towns though if you are willing to commute 20 minutes.

    Raising a family I would pick.

    Monmouth Cty

    Spring Lake, Sea Girt, Wall twp, possibly Middletown, Manasquan, Colts Neck. Howell is ok but the property taxes are insane.

    Stay away from Asbury Park, Long Branch, Neptune, Bradley Beach, Freehold, Ocean twp, Keansburg, Atlantic Highlands, Eatontown.

    Ocean Cty has lower property taxes but longer commute and is a conservative garrison like the Alamo. Thats why I moved here.

    Good: Point Pleasant Beach and Boro,Bay head, Mantoloking, Toms River, and the coastal parts of Brick.

    Stay away from Lakewood at all costs. Jackson is getting a little whiskey tango as is Manchester but they have their perks. Everything South of that is sh#t except the barrier islands.

  199. NJCoast says:

    Long Branch- not so hot, but there are some nice surrounding communities-Elberon, West Long Branch, Oceanport, Monmouth Beach, Seabright.

    Long Branch is an Abbott district and as a result has amazing new school facilities and free preschool.

    The beachfront in Long Branch resembles Disney-by-the-Sea. Pier Village is like a Hollywood backlot. It attracts lots of Bennies but the locals stay far away for the most part.

    I love the area in the Spring, Summer, and Fall and but its a loooong Winter around here.

  200. safeashouses says:

    #211 relo,

    I grew up in Long Branch. If your friend wants to move to Long Branch he should look at the Elberon and West End sections.
    If he wants a neighboring town I would pick Oceanport or West Long Branch. Sea Bright gets flooded during Nor Easters and is full of pretentious people who think it’s good the gov spends tens of millions to replenish their beaches but complain about paying to send their kids to Shore Regional), parts of Monmouth Beach get flooded and it is also full of pretentious folk. I would avoid any town that sends their kids to Monmouth Regional or Red Bank Regional district.

    Rumson-Fair Haven is very nice but pricey (Rumson a lot more pricier than Fair Haven)
    Wall had an amazing number of their kids getting killed in 1 car accidents in the early 90’s (don’t know if that is still ongoing).

    Manasquan could also be a good choice. I wouldn’t look much further south then Manasquan due to the traffic. Also if they move a few towns west of Long Branch Rt 36 sucks to drive on during race track and beach seasons.

  201. Cindy says:

    Congratulations Sean…
    How will you ever find a finer Irish name than….Sean?

    @71 Make
    John – Have you ever thought about writing a book?

    I think Grim should write the book. A chapter on John, a chapter on Clot…etc. Oh my gosh! I know I would buy it.

  202. james says:

    I want Monmouth and Ocean County to secede from the state of NJ. We dont need the rest of you nanny state clowns.

  203. Outofstater says:

    Congratulations Sean!!!

  204. Schumpeter says:

    BC (180)-

    You must have meant go against SPG.

    “Go SPG.”

  205. safeashouses says:

    #216 james,

    Are you from jackson by any chance?

  206. Schumpeter says:

    safe (193)-

    A great illustration of the need to preserve the concept of trayf.

  207. Schumpeter says:

    Way to go, Sean! Hope he turns out to be a cranky prick like you. :)

  208. Schumpeter says:

    The FNM “seriously delinquent” rate has gone parabolic, increasing by roughly 5% sequentially and just under 300% YoY. As mere text will simply not do this metric justice, please enjoy this chart of the dataset from Blytic. It tells you all you need to know about the Fed’s containment of the housing problem:


  209. Schumpeter says:

    “This trend should bother you, dear taxpayer, because it is your money on the hook here, which is not only massively mismanaged by Bernanke & Co., LLC, but which sees another $80 billion of free funding every month courtesy of the dollar printing press to onboard even more toxic garbage onto your balance sheet.”


    We are so fcuking fcuked.

  210. Schumpeter says:

    Of course, in the shimmery world of Chief Congresscritter Bunghole Frank, bad loans are good…since they keep a floor under RE prices.

    We deserve whatever we get at this point.

  211. relo says:

    I just received correspondence that Freddie Mac just acquired the note to our property. My understanding is that this means we don’t have to make payments anymore. Kindly confirm.

  212. Safeashouses says:

    #220 schumpeter

    That article’s topic didn’t seem kosher to me.

    I think the woman with a tattoo of a pig and the word kosher above it was my visual candidate for oxymoron of the year.

  213. Stu says:

    Way to go Sean.

  214. james says:


    “Are you from Jackson by any chance?” Is this a serious question?

  215. BC Bob says:

    Clot [218],

    Of course. Is there any other position to have? Can’t shorts chant go SPG?

  216. BC Bob says:

    Clot [222],

    Pant up.

  217. BC Bob says:

    Inst Risk Analytics rated C a F. Not sure if they meant failure or f*cked?

  218. still_looking says:

    Just wondering….

    Does this press release mean that they are gonna extend “mark to fantasy” bookkeeping for CRE?

    Or am I reading this wrong??

    October 30, 2009 Media Contact: Andrew Gray

    The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), in coordination with the other member Agencies of the Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council (FFIEC), adopted a policy statement today supporting prudent commercial real estate (CRE) loan workouts. This policy statement stresses that performing loans, including those that have been renewed or restructured on reasonable modified terms, made to creditworthy borrowers will not be subject to adverse classification solely because the value of the underlying collateral declined.

    This policy statement provides guidance to examiners, and financial institutions that are working with CRE borrowers who are experiencing diminished operating cash flows, depreciated collateral values, or prolonged delays in selling or renting commercial properties. It also recognizes that during these difficult economic circumstances, continued credit availability to businesses, especially small businesses, is challenging, even where borrower performance has been acceptable. This policy statement reflects the appropriate balance of prudent credit practices and meeting legitimate credit needs.

    The FFIEC Agencies recognize that prudent loan workouts are often in the best interest of both financial institutions and borrowers, particularly during difficult economic conditions. This policy statement details risk-management practices for loan workouts that support prudent and pragmatic credit and business decisionmaking within the framework of financial accuracy, transparency, and timely loss recognition. Financial institutions that implement prudent loan workout arrangements after performing comprehensive reviews of borrowers’ financial conditions will not be subject to criticism for engaging in these efforts, even if the restructured loans have weaknesses that result in adverse credit classifications.

    The policy statement includes examples of CRE loan workouts. The examples, provided for illustrative purposes only, reflect examiners’ analytical processes for credit classifications and assessments of institutions’ accounting and reporting treatments for restructured loans. The policy statement reiterates existing guidance that examiners are expected to take a balanced approach in assessing institutions’ risk-management practices for loan workout activities.

    The member Agencies of the FFIEC include the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the National Credit Union Administration, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, the Office of Thrift Supervision, and the FFIEC State Liaison Committee. The FDIC currently chairs the FFIEC.


  219. still_looking says:


    Vampire Squid found attempting to mate with human….



  220. still_looking says:

    BFF begins:

    U.S. Bank, NA, of Minneapolis, Minnesota, Assumes All of the Deposits of Nine Failed Banks in Arizona, California, Illinois and Texas


  221. still_looking says:

    thats NINE banks, all at once…

    U.S. Bank, NA, of Minneapolis, Minnesota, Assumes All of the Deposits of Nine Failed Banks in Arizona, California, Illinois and Texas

    Total cost?

    As of September 30, 2009, the banks had combined assets of $19.4 billion and deposits of $15.4 billion.


  222. james says:

    Is it time to pull our deposits from the banks? Personally, I wouldnt mind pulling a shit load of cash from TD Bank and the George Norcross clan. Hey Norcross, when this shit goes down you wont escape.

  223. grim says:

    $2.5 billion dollar hit to the DIF.


  224. confused in NJ says:

    The new Movie 2012 bodes ill for Obama Part II.

  225. still_looking says:

    grim 238

    Aw c’mon…. Sean’s new son, my future kids, all of our grandkids can pay for that in no time…

    It’s just 2.5 Billion dollars… :)


  226. PGC says:


    “When I expressed my disbelief that the proud Irish would accept such a deal I received the following response.
    Go f@ck yourself you American twat.”

    James, I have to remind my fellow countrymen that they have to remove the country of origin, when analysing posts. Stupid posts can come from anywere!

  227. PGC says:

    #195 Nom

    Wow, you reached a new low!

  228. PGC says:

    #196 Sean

    Congrats, I’ll wet the baby’s head for you.

  229. PGC says:

    #201 Ball Boy

    Is that straw I smell burning?

  230. PGC says:

    #205 Ball Boy

    Think Global, not local

  231. randyj5 says:

    what the hell is Obama doing???

    get going on Stimulus #2 already, the country is already circling the deflation drain again!

    however, he already has a ball in the air with health care… and he’s been told to take it one-at-a-time.

    why do i think we’re going to get 3-4 stimulus packages before this is over…? all in the $1T range…! like the insane that keep trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result..

    the American people see through the bulls##t and realize that none of this constitutes a real recovery and will cling dear to every dollar they can earn.

    in a 70% consumer-based economy (disgusting), the negative feedback loop is killing the USG.

  232. PGC says:

    #213 NJCoast

    They voted out Abbott this year in attempt to distribute the fund fairer.
    It will be interesting to see the effect on the communities outside the Newark/ Patterson / Jersey City area.

  233. PGC says:

    #225 relo

    We were bought by Contrywide. You don’t get a vote

  234. Shore Guy says:


    Mazel tov! The priests taught us that is a traditional Irish form of congratulations.

  235. db says:

    How about Little Silver ?

  236. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Come on people, we all know bank closings are a lagging indicator.

  237. Schumpeter says:

    Why do the BFF announcements seem to be coming later and later in the day?

  238. Charger says:

    To #201 – Guess what, most of the utility companies today are foreign owned.

  239. Schumpeter says:

    Are they timing BFF announcements to coincide with Little House on the Prairie reruns on TBS?

    Good way to keep a lid on that news.

  240. Schumpeter says:

    charger (253)-

    Our asses are owned by some other entity…nine ways to Sunday.

  241. Shore Guy says:

    How many banks ended up closing yesterday? Do we see 150 by the end of the year? 200?

  242. NJGator says:

    Pillow talk in the Gator household:

    Stu: That Schumpeter guy on the blog seems really cool.

    Me: Of course he is. It’s Clot. You did know that, didn’t you?

    Stu: I had no idea.

    Me: Oy

  243. Shore Guy says:

    From WTOP in Washington from the 26th:

    The 106 bank failures so far this year, including seven announced Friday, are the most since 1992, when 181 failed at the end of the savings and loan crisis. Close to another 400 banks have been deemed at risk of failure.

  244. Shore Guy says:

    Thanks Cindy. For being from the Left Coast, you are okay ;)

  245. Shore Guy says:


    He is a sharp one, your husband. Can’t slide anything past him.

  246. Cindy says:


    A Dead Heat in New Jersey – WSJ today

    “The two front-runners in the New Jersey governor’s race are in a statistical dead heat as they face the weekend of what has been a bruising and expensive campaign.”

  247. Cindy says:

    260 – But Shore…you know I lean to the right, right?

  248. Schumpeter says:

    Cindy (262)-

    Both our gubnor candidates make your guy look like Churchill.

  249. Schumpeter says:

    At the end of the day, I think CA and NJ are probably equally insolvent. We are like a mini-CA in many aspects.

  250. Cindy says:

    Clot – Our lead Dem just dropped out. We are in for fun and games here as well.

  251. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Perhaps the FDIC should consult the BLS and start a birth/death model for banks?

  252. Cindy says:


    Did you folks catch this Simon Johnson article?

    “The Home-Buyer Tax Credit – Throwing Good Money After Bad”

    In short – Johnson feels stimulus money could be better spent and we should stop artificially propping up home prices.

    I also watched a JEC hearing @ Baseline Scenario this AM. There is something wrong with me. Most people are asleep @ 4AM. I’m going to need a nap today.

  253. BC Bob says:

    Shore [259],

    When the smoke clears, 1,000 is the bottom end of the range.

  254. morpheus says:

    congrats. I assume you will give the child a “good old” Irish name. Gave one to my son, even though we are not Irish.

    Now make sure your friends give you a gift basket of high ABV beer. It really does help!

    ah. . . I remember bringing home the little one from the hospital. Now he is running all over the house and looking forward to Halloween.

    Now excuse me as I have to committ serious bodily harm to a pumpkin.

  255. Outofstater says:

    Happy Halloween everyone!! Anyone going trick or treating as Tim Geithner?

  256. Dissident HEHEHE says:


    Agreed, the CRE implosion is going to make future Friday’s real interesting

  257. morpheus says:

    how do I post a link on the comments section of this blog? Wanted to post a U-tube video for a certain someone here and when I try to copy the link, it is not underlined and does not allow access to the video. HELP!

  258. BC Bob says:

    “Happy Halloween everyone!! Anyone going trick or treating as Tim Geithner?”


    Hitting too many Asisn households today, don’t want to subject myself to laughter/ridicule. Therefore, decided to be a bull.

  259. Cindy says:

    Morpheus – I am pretty much computer illiterate – that said –

    If I can’t get a link to work, I go back to the original source and try from there. You may have to put in the title and Youtube – open it…..right click to highlight…scroll down to copy – click -back to the comments section – right click down to paste – left click.

    I think that is right – but remember, I need sleep.

  260. lostinny says:


    Stu & Gator Happy Anniverary

    Happy Samhain all.

  261. Essex says:

    257. Do you guys text that to each other?

  262. Shore Guy says:

    “Anyone going trick or treating as Tim Geithner?”


    The idea is a mild scare not to terrify people.

  263. Essex says:

    Costume this year is mullet mom….gosslin.

  264. Essex says:

    not my costume. just the funny wimmen.

  265. yo'me says:

    WOODBRIDGE — A former Republican candidate for township council was fined $7,500 in municipal court Wednesday after he was found guilty of renting out a single family home to 10 individuals, township officials said today.

    Bhupendra Patel had subdivided a home he owned at 55 Magnolia Road in Iselin and rented it out to 10 people who he charged $200 a month, township officials said.

    He was fined $7,500, a record amount in Woodbridge, according to Mayor John E. McCormac, who said the township has led an amplified effort against illegal housing in recent months.


  266. stu says:

    yes, I am an idiot. After Gator revealed that schump was clot, I was like…how could there be two realtors who are so bearish. I truly am a dolt!

  267. Gator says:

    277 Lost – Thanks!

  268. 3b says:

    #196 sean: Comhghairdeas (congratulations)!!

  269. Cindy says:


    California to Withhold a Bigger Chunk of Paychecks – LA Times

    “Starting Sunday, cash-strapped California will dig deeper into the pocketbooks of cash-strapped wage earners – holding back 10% more than it already does in income taxes just as the biggest shopping season of the year kicks into gear.”

    Oh boy, we are already down $1B in our income projections for the year. Now we are going to take a new hit in sales tax revenue for the holiday season. Plus, inflict damage on the already-wary consumer’s state of mind. All so we could pretend we had the budget gap covered.

    I have changed my state withholding but this was barely publicized here. Some folks are going to be really mad.

  270. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [283] stu

    Wow, it took you that long? How many Knob-creek loving, anarchistic, heavily-armed realtors from central jersey could there be on this board?

    The fact that I called him Pol Clot from time to time also should have been a clue.

  271. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [272] out,

    Here in Brigadoon, I thought of being really scary and going out as fellow UMass alumnus, Ken Feinberg.

    Maybe carrying a big axe with a posterboard paycheck cut in half and glued to either side of the blade.

    Hey, that is actually a pretty good idea. Gotta go buy an axe and a bald wig.

  272. 3b says:

    With the 8k tax credit being extended to contracts signed by April 2010, that close by July 31, 2010, seems to me there will be all sorts of fraud as that April 30th date gets closer.

    Back dating of contracts to name just one.

  273. chicagofinance says:

    Sean: congrats

  274. jamil says:

    ““The two front-runners in the New Jersey governor’s race are in a statistical dead heat as they face the weekend of what has been a bruising and expensive campaign.””

    Dead people tend to vote Democrats so Corzine and higher taxes will win easily. ACORN is such a nice organization.

  275. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [242] pgc

    Awww. Did my sarcasm hurt your feelings? (like the husband gambit would actually work—are our immigration heads that stupid? I hope not)

    It is bad enough that we are practicing social engineering through immigration policy (a slippery slope, or came’s nose, pick your metaphor), but are you seriously suggesting that this sort of precedent won’t lend itself to collusion and fraud? Or, at a minimum, every female borderhopper will tell ICE “I am fleeing an abusive relationship” which results in more delay and cost?

    Personally, I’d like to see this sort of thing handled at an individual or charity level. Our policy should be that we will admit such cases, for purposes of sanctuary, only if there is an organization or individual willing to sponsor them so that they are not a public charge.

    There, problem truly solved. And I will be interested in hearing how your sponsorship works out.

  276. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [292] should be camel’s

  277. jamil says:

    Comrade: “Obama administration that the regulatory revamp working through Congress could lead to a drastic reshaping of financial institutions”

    The new Oversight Board of the super regulator has 5 seats reserved for “community organizations”. Barney Frank and Maxine Waters managed to slip that in a committee and GOP did not notice it until it was too late. Isn’t it great that ACORN has a major role in the most powerful regulator in the history of mankind? I’m sure they will use their power wisely.

  278. jamil says:

    Shore 54:
    “but I don’t think our essential rights are in danger; the miscreants who surrounded Bush were, in contrast, a threat to freedom.”

    Which do you think as a more likely scenario:

    1: Bush admin bans New York Slimes, jails Micheal Moore and other democratic activist and creates totalitarian propaganda machine

    2: Obambi admin shuts down Fox News, talk radio and jails Rush, O’Reilly and tea party people who dare to criticize the Messiah

    Yeah, I think so too.

  279. NJGator says:

    Got a new Glen Ridge listing in my inbox yesterday. 3 BR 1 1/2 1524 SF, 47×133 lot literally on the East Orange border (this is pretty much the southernmost block in Glen Ridge proper). Completely renovated, but all the new fancy appliances in the photos are excluded from the sale. Asking price $485k. Taxes $10,673. I think I’ll take a pass on this one.

  280. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [294] jamil

    That is interesting, I hadn’t seen that.

    FWIW, I dealt with FRB, OCC, OTS and FDIC staff in sheperding bank applications through those agencies. Many applications were attacked by community groups (most did so selectively, though one guy, Matthew Lee, attacked everything).

    Staff at those agencies generally viewed comm. groups as pests, but would never openly criticize them (privately, yes, but not publicly).

    Read any order approving an application it is clear the regulator pays them lip service and little more. Wonder how they will feel when the pests now sit in judgment.

  281. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [295] jamil

    Your examples are hyperbole, but in theory, I have to agree. One need only look at the mini-revolt that played out last week with the DC press corp.

    The WH wanted to blackball Fox, and the press corps told the WH, no, can’t do that because it violates the pool agreement. WH backed down. MSM caught flack from the left for supporting Fox, but I think they were smart enough to see what an awful precedent it would have set.

    Fact is, if any GOP WH used the tactics that the current one does, there would be mass protests by the left, and rightly so.

  282. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [236] still

    At first, I read your post too fast, and thought US Bank had been seized. That would be a big time SHTF event. But I thought, that can’t be right and re-read it. Phew.

    That is a fire sale opportunity for US Bank to expand into those markets, which the other big banks have been aggressively seeking to move into. Despite housing, they still see the SW and Tex. as growth areas.

    Also a good indicator for US Bank’s health. Look for them to pop a bit on Monday.

  283. Frank says:

    Meanwhile in East Orange (down the block) you can get the same house for $40K.

  284. Frank says:

    Another RE auction tomorrow in NYC. Anyone going?


  285. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [295] jamil

    Also, I see shore’s point that the last administration was implementing new policies that would erode the foundations of civil liberties. I think shore and I agree just how much the foundation would be eroded, but we both agree the effect was caustic.

    OTOH, when it comes to actual interference with many liberties at the practiced level, I also see your point. This admin, and dem admins in general, have long incrementally eroded freedoms in areas deemed less fundamental, and more commercial, or have empowered nongovernmental actors to carry the water where they couldn’t. This history is undisputed (and if the board libs wish to take issue and demand proof instead of doing their own research, they need only mail me a retainer check before I write a definitive treatise on the matter).

    One may disagree, but I think that things like speech codes, “hate” crime laws, election finance laws, and certain regulation of employment practices, not to mention a policy of selective enforcement by DoJ or state AGs, have an equally caustic effect on the foundations of liberty.

  286. Cindy says:


    I wonder if this will amount to anything…

    “Congressman Demands AIG “Backdoor Bailouts” Documents – Bloomberg 10/30

    “All of this begs the question why the New York Fed would not drive a better bargain for the American taxpayer,” Issa said.

  287. nw says:


    Probably H1Bs stacked up in there.

  288. Word says:

    “Another RE auction tomorrow in NYC. Anyone going?”

    Is your Halloween costume a circling vulture?

  289. d2b says:

    you have two failing banks and the FDIC seizes one, wipes out the debt, and turns their assets over to bank 2. The assets and deposits of bank 1 make bank 2’s ratios healthy because their losses are now spread out over two pools of assets and deposits.

    Is their a downside to bank 2 going forward? How does the FDIC measure the amount of money that it loses on these deals?

  290. Shore Guy says:



    A U.S. District Court judge in San Jose has awarded Facebook $711 million in damages in an anti-spam case the social-networking giant filed against online marketer Sanford Wallace, who is known as the “Spam King.”


  291. Shore Guy says:

    So, the Fed gives every bank, company, whatever all the money they need to deal with toxic loans, etc., and accepts chewed bubble gum, tires, mortgage notes, etc. as collateral. What happens if they just quietly forgive every loan?

  292. Shore Guy says:

    Heck, lets take it one step further, the Fed gives the USG all the money it needs to run itself this year, and redeem much of its bond debt then the USG dissolves the FED and replaces it with Fed 2.0, what happens?

  293. Stu says:

    I love how an election brings out the Jamil in this blog.

  294. Shore fooling Stu as to who I am says:


    How are those Mets doing :)

  295. Shore Guy says:

    Clot off on the soccer pitch today?

  296. schabadoo says:

    For the politically-inclined:

    Republican Dede Scozzafava has suspended her bid in next Tuesday’s NY 23 special election

    The GOP can’t even field a candidate for an open House seat. As a bonus, you get the Newt vs Palin angle.

  297. jamil says:

    schaba: dede was acorn and kos kids endorsed leftie while conservative gop candidate hoffman represents mainstream conservatives and is already tied or leading against the dem. Now that dede (r-acorn) concedes, Gop will win this easily and the new congressman actually believes in low taxes.

  298. Shore Guy says:

    Imagine, high property taxes are a factor in the election:


    The big issue facing New Jersey residents this election is taxes, as the average bill for a homeowner was more than $7,000.
    It sounds like another New Jersey joke. Except it’s not funny if you actually live here.

    For the privilege of living in perhaps the nation’s most-maligned state, New Jerseyans pay the highest property taxes in America.

    That overriding issue — not President Barack Obama, health care or the economy — could cost Democratic Gov. Jon Corzine his job on Election Day.

    The former Wall Street whiz, who has failed to solve the Garden State’s tax woes amid a deep economic decline, is locked in a tight race with Republican Chris Christie, a corruption-busting former federal prosecutor whose main appeal appears to be that he isn’t Corzine.

    A moderate independent in the race, Chris Daggett, a former state and federal environmental official, has surprised the political establishment by becoming a factor — and maybe a spoiler — partly because of his plan to reduce property taxes by 25 percent.

    New Jersey’s crushing tax burden is blamed largely on its profusion of hundreds of cities, towns, townships, boroughs and school districts, all with their own bureaucracies, overlapping authority and duplicated services.

    Last year, the average bill for a homeowner was more than $7,000 — about twice the national average and 71 percent more than a decade earlier. It’s a bill homeowners have to pay whether they get a big raise, a pink slip or a fixed pension.

    “It just keeps going up,” lamented Tim Nowakowski, a 52-year-old kitchen designer from Shamong who pays about $8,000 in property taxes. “Nothing goes down.”

    Jerry Rickleman, 46, of Paramus, said his mother and mother-in-law are both in their 80s and their property tax bills make it difficult to make ends meet. “They’re both drowning here,” he said.

    All 21 New Jersey counties are among the 100 in the country with the highest average property tax bill. Property taxes account for more than 40 cents of every dollar New Jersey’s state and local governments collect in taxes.


  299. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    I just Googled the Daggett Tax Plan for details on how he plans to reduce Property Taxes by 25%.

    A Miracle of Modern Accounting.

    He plans to raise the Sales Tax by $4 Billion (yes, Billion with a B). How much spending will it take to increase the coffers by $4B ??

    And he doesn’t mention that he eliminates any and all Homestead Rebates & Senior / Veteran Exemptions. It’s a Zero Sum Game, and chances are your Total Tax Burden will go up, not down.

    “For our most vulnerable householders — the more than 50 percent whose property taxes are at the median property tax of $6,320, his plan amounts to little more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. For these homeowners, the plan would, at best, produce minimal to no additional property tax relief beyond what they are presently receiving. Many seniors and the disabled would actually see their property tax relief decreased.

    The primary beneficiaries of the Daggett plan would be those with incomes above $125,000 and the most affluent who have property taxes of $10,000 or more and do not qualify for any of the existing property tax relief programs because their incomes are too high.

    The Daggett plan calls for the elimination of all of the existing property tax relief programs to partially fund his proposal and replaces them with a tax credit. Thus, the Homestead Rebate, the Senior Property Tax Freeze, the property tax deduction from income taxes, the $250 senior property tax credit and the $250 veterans tax credit would all be eliminated.”

  300. NJGator says:

    Hope everyone enjoyed their Halloween. My favorite house was the one in Glen Ridge where they gave out sangria to the trick-or-treating adults.

  301. Shore Guy says:

    Little Gator bring home a stash? Candy that is, not wine.

  302. Outofstater says:

    Will this never end??? Chrysler is offering incentives for people to leave, all paid for, I assume, by the American taxpayer:

    “For younger workers who have been with the company at least one year, they can leave with a taxable payment of $75,000 and a $25,000 vehicle voucher. They would retain Chrysler health care coverage, excluding dental, for six months with the option of buying 6 to 18 months of additional coverage.”

    How many people outside of the magical bubble of southeastern lower Michigan received such largesse??? Makes me sick!!


  303. relo says:

    Clot, the BF announcements are coming later as they are waiting for you to get past the label on the Knob Creek.

    Thanks for the responses to the Long Branch inquiry.

  304. NJGator says:

    Shore 318 – He most certainly did (although Stu tried to steal his sour cream and onion potato chips…Lil gator would have none of that). And he and his friends really enjoyed the peanut butter eyeball cookies that we made last night.

  305. Pat says:

    Man, I just sacked my kid’s bag. No chips in there. Sour cream and onion. I will now be going out to the kitchen and eating the last quarter of a pumpkin gooey cake. Thanks, gator.

    We had more than a hundred kids. Must be a recession on somewhere. Even the teenagers were still ringing at 9.

    We left at 6, came back at 8. Turned on all the lights, put out a giant basket of Hershey bars and Sour Patch kids … , “Please take one or two.”

    Hah. Small town.

    One of my neighbors told me she was in our front yard at 7 and there was still candy left for her kids.

    Nice, huh?

  306. PGC says:

    #302 Got Ball?

    “I see shore’s point that the last administration was implementing new policies that would erode the foundations of civil liberties. ”

    This is where I see a massive double standard from you. Give us your legal analysis on what the GWB administration did to the 4th amendment.

    A sarcastic “It was a travesty” is not acceptable.

  307. Schumpeter says:

    Good day of football today. Another one tomorrow.

    AC Milan v Parma on the TIVO. Hope nobody got razor blades in their apples. ‘Night all.

  308. PGC says:

    “conservative gop”

    This race is why you won’t see the GOP back until 2016 minimum. The candidates that could win, can’t make it past the Far Right money machine. This district could go Dem, for the first time since the 1800’s

  309. jamil says:

    326 pgc: wanna bet? dede’s positions were identical to nancy pelosi’s, except support for constitutional rights wrt 2nd amendment. What would be the point of gop comeback with such people? Since gop picked such an extremist (acorn connected!) it was natural that more mainstream gop candidate, more in line with the district and the nation would emerge.

  310. james says:

    Let just call it like it is. There are too many losers in NJ. You know the government worker. Lazy, uneducated, “You aint gonna give me no mop to slop yo shit wit” crowd. Meanwhile with the country staring down the barrel of hyperinflation they think their unearned pensions are going to be funded. LMAO, 90 billion in the whole while in a severe inflationary environment is something that should keep all government workers awake at night. That 50% pension isnt going to buy sh#t by the time you retire assuming its still there. Who is going to fund the pension system? Not the taxpayers they are already leaving. I sat down with my family tonight and we discussed countries to move to. My argument was a country that doesnt let you keep the fruits of your labor is one that isnt worth living in. The results of the poll were.

    1. Puerto Rico (believe it or not no fed income tax)
    2. Australia
    3. Texas (if it can secede)

  311. PGC says:

    #329 jamil

    Keep drinking the tea.

  312. Jim says:

    My wife and I decided to go with the house that has the sauna. We closed last Tuesday and are very happy with house. We only move in in January as the closing is done much differently than in the US. I’ll be paying this off with my housing allowance although I did need to get a loan from a local German bank in Euro. We put 65% down and are scheduled to pay off the rest over a five year period.

    They are starting the renovation of our place in South Jersey during the next couple of weeks. The kitchen and backroom addition roof are going to be redone. This is the house I grew up in and it is really a nice place but needs some TLC. Hopefully I can rent it out to some relatives in a couple of years once all the work is done.

  313. Essex says:

    332. So congrats on the house. I have a “space” in my mind for a sauna. Paul Newman used on every day.

  314. lostinny says:

    332 Jim

    Glückwünsche auf Ihrem neuen Haus.

  315. kettle1 says:


    puerto rico has some very real social stability issues percolating in the background. Might want to bump Australia to #1.

  316. kettle1 says:


    “hate” crime laws

    i love how the same crime has different penalties depending on the color or nationality of the perpetrates vs the victim. nothing screams justice like that.

    just another extension of “some being more equal then others”

  317. kettle1 says:

    Glock or Sig……. decisions, decisions!

  318. kettle1 says:

    F it, one of each

  319. kettle1 says:

    had a hilarious chat with a cop the other day. Happened into a random chat with a cop and happen to ask him what caliber he carried. He preceded to say he carried a smith&wesson .40. But that he had been told it wasnt a very good gun. I asked why he thought that. he responded that he didnt know if it was any good some guy at the barracks who was a “gun nut” told him that and that he really didnt know much about them.

    got to love someone who carries in public and doesnt know their own weapon well enough to say if they think its a good weapon or not.

  320. lostinny says:

    Meltdown 101: What to know if your bank fails

    NEW YORK – Dozens of banks have failed this year. What do you need to know if yours is next?


  321. Jim says:

    Saunas are great but I’d never use one alone. About ten years ago we had a family friend who passed out in hers. Needless to say that by the time they found her she was somewhat fried.

  322. wallies says:

    Has anyone ever been to one of these:

    There is one coming up for residential properties in Eastern PA and Southern NJ in Valley Forge on Tuesday.

    Pros/cons/words to the wise?

  323. sas says:

    “smith&wesson .40”

    thats a good gun


  324. yo'me says:

    The NYT Spreads Scare Stories About Financial Market Panic

    The first sentence of a NYT article told readers that the White House and Congress are faced with: “anxiety in financial markets about the huge federal deficit and the potential for it to become an electoral liability for Democrats.” There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever presented in the article to support this bold assertion.

    What we know is that investors are willing to hold 10-year Treasury bonds at a 3.5 percent interest rate. This suggests that financial markets are very unconcerned about the deficit and the future prospects for the U.S. government. By comparison, they demanded interest rates of more than 5.0 percent to hold Treasury bonds in the late 90s when the government was actually running surpluses. The higher interest rate suggests a greater level of anxiety.

    While the financial markets appear unconcerned about the fiscal condition of the United States, there are many wealthy people, who claim to speak for financial markets, who are expressing concern. The NYT should distinguish between the views expressed by these wealthy people (all of whom were too incompetent to see an $8 trillion housing bubble) and reality.

    –Dean Baker

  325. sas says:

    “I sat down with my family tonight and we discussed countries to move to. My argument was a country that doesnt let you keep the fruits of your labor is one that isnt worth living in. The results of the poll were.

    1. Puerto Rico (believe it or not no fed income tax)
    2. Australia
    3. Texas (if it can secede)”

    hugh? Texas?

    for me, I ain’t going anywhere. I’m staying right here.

    I do have an escape plan for the family, its nothing fancy, its still in the country, but out of the east coast.

    I do agree, many people, you take away their pleasures or money, they’d damn near throw their mother in an oven to get it back.


  326. Shore Guy says:

    Good news NJ, B.O. is coming to town to stump for higher property taxes and increasing State debt.

    From the AP via CBS:
    Obama Goes To NJ For Final Pitch Of ’09 Elections

    Nov. 01, 2009

    WASHINGTON (AP) – President Barack Obama is making a last-minute campaign appearance for New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine’s re-election bid.

    Obama’s scheduled to appear Sunday at a pair of rallies for the only incumbent governor seeking re-election. Just one of two governors’ offices on the ballot for Tuesday’s elections, the White House is aware Democratic losses would be spun as a referendum on Obama.

    The results could also foreshadow next year’s elections, when 37 governorships come up for grabs.

    The president plans to appear with Corzine at two New Jersey campaign stops, in Camden and Newark, before returning to the White House

  327. Shore Guy says:

    Nothing reflects the economics and daily lives of the vast majority of NJ citizens than Camden.

  328. Shore Guy says:

    From Reuters, green shoots for America:

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Barack Obama said on Saturday this week’s positive job and economic growth figures proved that his big spending efforts to stimulate the economy were working.


  329. freedy says:

    camden and newark, hummm, wonder why?

    not jersey city , trenton, lodi, garfield,

    guess Jon ‘s got bergen a lock

  330. d2b says:

    Shouldn’t bother you that people that need to carry guns are not obsessed with them. In fact, quite the contrary.

  331. Shore Guy says:

    You think King Jon has to worry about winning Camden or Newark? I never thought they had large Republican popultions.

    It is a shame B.O. couldnt fit in a stop to the NJ burbs, even Democratic ones. Now the national press will broadcast images tht will only help solidify NJ’s image as a pit.

  332. Shore Guy says:

    Carry on all, time to rake the leaves.

  333. House Whine says:

    Puerto Rico? I would be real careful about where I landed there- I think there is a lot more crime and poverty outside of the touristy areas that we don’t really know about here. Nice people, beaches, etc. but I agree about the potential for instability.

  334. schabadoo says:

    My argument was a country that doesnt let you keep the fruits of your labor is one that isnt worth living in.

    I’m curious to know which country you’re referring to…

  335. chicagofinance says:

    grim…too long to figure out what sent this into mod…

    355.chicagofinance says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    November 1, 2009 at 12:30 pm
    For nom & clot:

    Keep on file for the nompound; especially if clot is hired as resident chef…”Blend in purée of dog’s liver and cook for additional 5–7 minutes.”

    LIFE & STYLEOCTOBER 31, 2009.Let Them Eat Dog
    A modest proposal for tossing Fido in the oven


  336. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [330] james

    Good thoughts, but consider what you are fleeing from and where you are fleeing to. Your choices have the following considerations:

    1. PR: No fed income tax, but consider if local taxation makes up for it. There are also language/cultural issues. Finally, in any meltdown, it won’t just be the U.S. mainland affected.

    2. Aus: Very high taxes, higher than here. Also, no private gun ownership allowed in the country, so no self-defense permitted. Finally, they don’t have our level of civil rights—no 4th amendment there.

    3. Texas: Probability of secession, even in the event of a SHTF scenario highly unlikely. Think winning lottery or getting hit by lightning. For one thing, anyone who would NOT benefit by secession sure as heck won’t vote for it, and coupled with folks who feel strongly that Texas should remain, well, I don’t see sufficient support for that. Further, in a SHTF scenario, Texas would have the same problems as the rest of the country (though citizens would be better equipped to deal with them).

    On the plus side, conditions that bad will prompt other states to join Texas, so you would have two countries, and the U.S. would be even less contiguous. But conditions that bad should not come about in a republican form of government where voters can remove the offending policies long before the occur.

  337. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [324] PGC=DSA

    “This is where I see a massive double standard from you.”

    Afraid I don’t know what you are talking about. Put down “Rules for Radicals” for a minute put together a complete thought. I don’t have time to make your arguments for you.

    “Give us your legal analysis on what the GWB administration did to the 4th amendment.”

    See previous post, re: retainer. In the alternative, you can make a sizeable contribution to Grim in my name.

    [BTW, there are very real and practical reasons for the retainer request. You are asking an attorney for legal analysis. You may be unhappy with what passes for opinion, or just provocative suggestion, but I have a very different environment to operate in when it comes to this stuff. In short, I have to be a lot more careful than you do. Don’t like it? Write to the NJ Supreme Court—they make the rules.]

    A sarcastic “It was a travesty” is not acceptable.

    See above. I don’t think I have called anything a travesty, but keep posting. That might change.

  338. yo'me says:

    From Mish

    Hello Mish,

    I wanted to let you know that I deeply appreciate your post on strategic defaults. I get people calling me all of the time looking to refinance and when I find out how underwater they are I tell them it might be wise to walk away from the property.

    I also tell them the consequences of walking away. Like the article said, a foreclosure will stay on your credit report for 10 years. However, if you walk away it will only be 3 years before you can buy a home again. (It used to be 2 years but Fannie, Freddie, and the FHA made it longer to discourage people from walking away.)

    I tell them if they choose to walk away they need to make sure they have a decent car, and at least one credit card. The reason for the car is that it may be hard to get a decent rate on a car loan for a while if they have a recent foreclosure, and the credit card is needed to help you re-establish your credit after the foreclosure. One of the biggest mistakes people make after a bankruptcy or foreclosure is not re-establishing their credit.

    I do believe that in the future the guidelines will be changed to allow people who have re-established their credit to purchase a home 2 years after a foreclosure. This because there will be thousands such potential borrowers and it would be stupid to prevent them from re-entering the market.

    The other night I meet some friends for dinner. When a got there a lady I used to work with came up to me and told me her situation. In 2007 she bought a condo in Arlington, Va. for $300,000 and its value had dropped to $200,000. She still owed $295,000 on it. She told me she could afford the payment, but was considering walking away. I asked her what was her mortgage payment and condo fees were. It came to $2,300/month. Then I asked how much would it cost to rent a similar apartment. Her answer was $1,200-1,300.

    I said the answer was easy, walk away. In fact, I told her I would stop paying the mortgage and see how long it took them to foreclose. She might be able to live there 6 months or more rent free.

    Her fiancé was there and he didn’t agree with my answer. He said that her credit would be ruined for ten years and that the value would come back. I responded that a foreclosure would stay on a credit report for 10 years, but if you work hard at re-establishing your credit, the score can come back in a year or two.

    I have seen people plenty of people with credit scores over 700 within one year of a bankruptcy or foreclosure. As far as the value coming back, I told him that it would take 10 years or more before that value comes back.

    More people need to know that foreclosure is not the end of the world and that their credit can come back in a couple of years or sooner, especially if they take the right steps prior to the foreclosure.

    Thanks for the post, and keep up the good work.

    Michael Becker

  339. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [321, 324] DSA

    BTW, it isn’t “Got Ball”

    You keep dropping the plural.

    At least you didn’t make it a question, and I thank you for that. The answer would be yes, and they are brass.

  340. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Finally, here is the Tax News of the Day (which really isn’t news to readers of NJREReport.com, but I posit it anyway)

    “State Fiscal Crisis Will Get Worse
    Before Improving, Tax Experts Predict

    Despite recent improvements in the general economy, the states’ fiscal crisis is likely to grow worse in the coming year, a panel of state tax experts said Oct. 30, predicting that states would be forced to continue spending cuts and tax hikes into fiscal year 2011.

    “There’s a sense of waiting for the other shoe to drop,” Douglas L. Lindholm, president and executive director of the Council On State Taxation (COST), told an audience assembled at the National Press Club. “As bad as [fiscal] 2010 was, 2011 could be a lot worse,” he said.
    The ongoing impact of the current recession on revenues, combined with the expected end of federal stimulus funds in 2010, means that states could face an aggregate budget gap as high as $180 billion in FY 2011, said Nicholas Johnson, director of the State Fiscal Project of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP). The shortfall will have to be closed by a combination of severe spending cuts and tax increases, he said.

    Lindholm and Johnson were among four featured speakers in a roundtable discussion, “The State Fiscal Crisis: Where It Came From, How to Solve It,” sponsored by Tax Analysts. The program also included speakers from the Tax Foundation and the National Association of State Budget Officers (NASBO).
    Each panelist offered different theories as to the causes of—and solutions for—the crisis, but they all appeared to agree on its severity.

    Worst Downturn Since the Great Depression

    “It’s the absolute worst since the Great Depression,” said Scott Pattison, executive director of NASBO.
    “Year over year spending growth at the state level has averaged 6 percent for years,” Pattison noted. In fiscal year 2009 and fiscal year 2010, spending has not grown, but shrunk—and is currently 5 percent below the previous year’s levels, he said.

    Spending is expected to shrink again in 2011—rendering three successive years of “negative growth”—an unprecedented development, he said.

    “The good news,” Lindholm suggested, is that the fiscal crisis “may make it easier for policymakers to make tough choices.”

    But other panelists did not hold out much hope of sweeping reforms.
    Pattison warned that states have relatively little discretion to deal with economic downturns. General funds account for 45 percent of state spending—and of that portion, 63 percent is dedicated to K-12 education and Medicaid, two budget items that are politically difficult to pare, he said.

    Joseph Henchman, tax counsel and director of state projects with the Tax Foundation, blamed the states for much of their budget woes. By relying too heavily on unstable revenue sources, such as the corporate net income tax and taxes on high earners and capital gains, states have helped to create the “boom-bust cycle” that now plagues them, he said.

    Federal dollars have done nothing to resolve that issue, he added.
    Stimulus Dollars ‘Bought Time.’
    “The stimulus money bought time; that’s all it bought,” Henchman said. “Some states used it to put their fiscal house in order, some states put it straight into their budgets and kicked the can down the road.”

    Now those states will have to figure out how to close budget shortfalls without federal dollars, he said. While states really have only two options to balance their budgets—cut spending or raise taxes—politicians never shrink from searching for other means, Henchman said.
    He was especially critical of states that use tax incentives to lure industry, pointing to Dell Computer’s recent flight from North Carolina as proof that such incentives do not succeed in the long run.

    Another gimmick, he said, is the widespread use of tax amnesties, which Henchman said create a “perverse incentive” for noncompliant corporations to hold off paying taxes until a better deal is offered.

    But Johnson countered that state actions alone cannot account for the 17 percent decline in revenues seen in the second quarter of 2009; the recession that started in a handful of states plagued by the housing boom and bust has now spread to every other state, he said.

    Recession, Tax Cuts to Blame, CBPP Argues

    The recession has eroded jobs and reduced taxable income and consumption, he said. But states are also reaping the results of a tax-cutting spree in the late 1990s, which Johnson said “took 8.2 percent out of the states’ annual revenue stream.”

    To close the fiscal 2009 and fiscal 2010 budget gaps, Johnson said, states have already spent down reserves, cut health care and higher education, furloughed workers, and raised some taxes.
    Johnson offered his solutions to the current crisis: states need to broaden their sales tax base to include services, make the personal income tax even more progressive by imposing taxes on high earners, eliminate many of the credits under the corporate income tax, and adopt combined reporting. He also urged states to decouple from any federal changes that might narrow the tax base.

    Henchman argued that the so-called “millionaire’s tax” is counterproductive, inducing wealthy taxpayers—job-creating entrepreneurs—to flee to lower-tax states. But Johnson challenged that assertion.
    “The data doesn’t support it,” Johnson said. Taxes on high earners are volatile, he said, but they “are not a net negative.”

    The underlying issue, Johnson suggested, is that states such as California squandered much of their “boomtime revenue” on tax cuts—which turned out not to be affordable in the long run.
    ‘Structural Deficits’ Must Be Addressed
    Lindholm argued that combined reporting is not a solution to the crisis, because multistate corporations that would see their tax increases could “arrange their affairs” to avoid that impact.

    A more critical issue for states, Lindholm said, is to resolve “structural deficits” brought on by obligations for wages and benefits that far exceed those paid in the private sector. He called on states to revamp their wage and benefit programs; in particular, states should eliminate “defined benefit plans” and replace them with “defined contribution” plans.

    Lindholm also suggested that the solution to one problem that plagues the states—lack of uniformity in apportionment of the corporate income tax—may need to come from Congress, which could set a national nexus standard. More and more, he said, it seems clear that the complexity of state taxing systems may be putting American multinational corporations at a competitive disadvantage in the global marketplace. Eventually, he said, the states and federal government need to work together to address that concern.
    In the near term, however, Pattison said, the current crisis may force states to rethink their core responsibilities. It may be that states can no longer provide many of the services they have funded in the past.
    “It’s going to have to happen,” Pattison said. “We’re dealing with extremely scarce resources.”

  341. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [316] fiddy

    “The primary beneficiaries of the Daggett plan would be those with incomes above $125,000 and the most affluent who have property taxes of $10,000 or more and do not qualify for any of the existing property tax relief programs because their incomes are too high.”

    Damn. I am liking this Daggett guy all of a sudden.

  342. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [360] redux

    Oh, it was a question. Fine.

    Answer therefore is No, got two. And they are brass.

  343. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    OT alert.

    This is a shame. I saw these in Paris right after they were introduced. Should have made use of them then.


    Apparently, the VRWC is active in Paris as well.

  344. Schumpeter says:

    chi (327)-

    Biggest difference between those teams is that City’s owners are both smart and rich; ManU is owned and operated by the Glazer family (yep, the Tampa Bay Bucs). In true American fashion, they have loaded the club with a level of debt that probably can’t be repaid, and the club has already begun to decline as a result.

    My guess is ManU goes broke in 12-24 months.

  345. Schumpeter says:

    chi (355)-

    Is the dog liver a thickener for its sauce?


  346. schabadoo says:

    This is a shame. I saw these in Paris right after they were introduced. Should have made use of them then.

    Odd to hear crime being addressed by a sociologist.

    Around here, the only debate would be how high the mandatory minimum should be set.

  347. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [367] schabadoo

    Sociologist??? Again with the insults?

    Besides, I thought that, in your view, I was a knuckle-dragging, inbred, NASCAR-loving, white trash Neandrathal? Which begs the question—is sociologist a promotion?

  348. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Here is an interesting observation.

    I am in the office in Newark. Saw a lot of folks lined up for an event at the Prudential Center.

    I noticed that it was a uniformly minority crowd, and pretty happy to be there, it seemed. Lots of busses parked nearby. Figured it was some sort of large religious event, which the Pru Center holds from time to time, or perhaps a matinee concert for a prominent black diva, again something that could be held there. Drew that conclusion because the crowd was not dressed like, nor acting like, they were going to a rock concert, and certainly not a sporting event. Rather, a lot of them were dressed like they were going to church. Anyway, I didn’t give it a second thought, except to note that I found it odd that they were lining up. No Pru Center Crowd does that.

    Until I saw the board today, I didn’t know Obama and Corzine were campaigning in Newark and Camden. Duh. It is the Obama-Corzine event.

    What I find curious in retrospect was that there were NO white faces in the line I passed. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. It was almost as if the event was billed solely as an NAACP event rather than a political rally for the governor of a state.

    Maybe that was by design, I don’t know, but it truly looked as if the campaign made no effort to bring in white supporters. To me, that isn’t good optics or politics, but no one asked me to run Corzine’s campaign, so I will STFU now.

    Back to work. Wonder if they will fly in Dear Leader? Been years since I had Marine One flying over my head (and have a funny memory of my friend flipping it the bird).

  349. schabadoo says:

    Sociologist??? Again with the insults?

    The article.

    Bruno Marzloff, a sociologist who specializes in transportation, said, “One must relate this to other incivilities, and especially the burning of cars,” referring to gangs of immigrant youths burning cars during riots in the suburbs in 2005.

    As far as the characterization, I’ve certainly never went in that direction. For some reason you seem all free with simple facts, as though you believe every internet chain letter.

    For example, when you see a picture of someone with a flag behind them and their hand not on their heart, you state that they ‘refuse to salute the flag’. You do this even when shown a picture of the person actually saluting the flag.

    It doesn’t make any sense.

  350. Essex says:

    369. I’m home watching the Gints getting their ass handed to them by the Eagles. But then I am a white Jew.

  351. Essex says:

    I have an awesome sense of rhythm however and love Bar B Q. The Smoke Pit in Montclair.

  352. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [370] schab

    Ah, I thought when you commented after reprinting my words, you were speaking of me. As for Marzloff commenting, yes, sociologists do cover crime as a sociological issue. I don’t find that odd at all.

    As far as the characterization, well, you seem to have insinuated as much, so I thought I would seek some clarity there. As for internet chain letters, I only believe the same number as you, I suspect.

    And when you take issue with the statement about Obama’s refusal to salute the flag, that was well-publicized and widely-discussed in MSM, which you must readily accept. Photos taken later of him saluting the flag, after the public uproar, doesn’t convince me that his heart was in it. Given his statements about patriotic display, can you explain the discrepancy? My explanation is that he does it because his handlers told him to do so lest he turn off voters. To me, this makes the gesture meaningless. I’d prefer that he stuck to his initial sentiments.

    BTW, he is also wearing a flag lapel pin, something he famously did not do before and explained his reasoning for not doing so. Does this mean he was unpatriotic before, and patriotic now? Certainly not, but the context of the issue was overt displays of patriotism and his respect (for lack of a better word) for the military.

    In case you weren’t following the earlier thread, let me make it clear for you: I posit that, when one has eschewed public displays of patriotism in the past, and now engages in them, it strikes me as hypocritical.

    When one has argued against the military in the past (and present), yet goes to salute caskets, it strikes me as hypocritical.

    Someone (I forget who) questioned if he would have done that if the cameras weren’t on him. I think it is a legitimate question, albeit a small one in the big scheme of things.

    And in case you missed it, the point is not whether he does or does not do these things—he is, as I am, free not to—but whether his overt displays, when he earlier stated that they were meaningless, should be taken as a measure of true respect, or a photo op. designed to manipulate public opinion at a time when his military cred is going to be questioned?

    Or does that not make any sense?

  353. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    They are starting to block off streets here. The One should be appearing soon.

    The big screen shows a crowd waving campaign signs they were handed that say “Obama/Corzine.” They look like castoffs from when some speculated that Corzine might be the No. 2 on the ticket.

    Looks like a lot of singing and stuff. Like a tent revival in there, but with signs.

  354. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    The McCarter Highway is empty now. The One is obviously on his way.

  355. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Can’t get over how deadly quiet it is out there. No jet noise, no traffic noise. They even stopped trains—I can see them waiting far down the tracks. Those folks must be pissed.

  356. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    motorcade coming. The only activity I see is in the distance so that has to be it.

  357. schabadoo says:

    Photos taken later of him saluting the flag, after the public uproar, doesn’t convince me that his heart was in it.

    And that’s why I showed you one from 2007…

  358. james says:


    I am going to DC on Thurs Nov 5th. Ill be on the Capital steps while the House votes on the healthcare reform bill. Michelle Bachman is going to get us into the capitol building. I have a few things I want to say to rat face Pelosi if she has the balls to face me.

  359. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    The One is in the House. They used two of the new caddy limos in a shell game scenario.

    At least since he was never going to be on the street, I didn’t have to worry about being scoped out by SS snipers. Did not see anyone on rooftops, and I have a pretty good view.

    (Geez, there is a weird coincidence: the head of state security services in both Naz1 germany and here both have the initials “SS”).

  360. schabadoo says:

    Or does that not make any sense?

    It would, if you ignore everything that doesn’t jibe with your angle.

    With you so set in your thinking, I wonder how many picture it would take. If there were five from before 2007, would it be enough? When Bush signed flag after flag in ink, did you question his patriotism? I don’t recall your voluminous postings on the subject, maybe I missed them.

  361. Outofstater says:

    #368 Hey! If anyone is white trash on this board, it has to be me because I live in Georgia. I would, however, be happy to give white trash lessons to anyone who is interested. It’s a tough course – the prerequisites include attendance at one event at Darlington, an old Camaro and a collection of faded t-shirts. In the course, you will learn how to sit in a lawn chair in the back of a pickup truck while going to the dirt track. Cuisine will include any type of food as long as it is fried in lard. Small woodland critters are preferred. Beverages will, of course, be the obligatory beer served in a Mason jar. For extra credit, you may use your Mason jar as a receptacle for either moonshine or urine, but please, not at the same time. The final exam will require you to be drunk as you go up to the woman of your choice and say, “Gimme a little sugar.”

  362. james says:


    Get on your knees and repent your sins to the One. The Dear Leader is in your presence. How luck you are.

  363. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [378] schab

    To take a page from your book, prove it. My word is useless to you. Why should I accept yours?

    And that assertion raises more questions than it answers. Was he running for anything at the time? Was he in a location where his handlers told him “its a good idea senator; you should do this”?

    And if he was always so conscientious, why publicly (and briefly) in 2008, does he break from what you are insinuating was his normal practice?

    I think you will have to resort to a technique other than nit-picking to answer that. If you can do so with a nit-pick, then you are pretty damn good.

  364. james says:

    I found some video for the Obama event in Newark.


  365. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [381] schab

    “Or does that not make any sense?

    It would, if you ignore everything that doesn’t jibe with your angle.”

    Which is precisely how I think you view the world. Your answer is to ignore and deny. You would have made a great birther.

  366. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [382] Out

    I went to Darlington once, for Buck Baker’s driving school.

    The drive there looked like a caricature of what we Northeasterners must think of the WT south.

    Got rained out so I had to make up the class at Atlanta Motor Speedway. That drive from Atlanta looked downright urban compared to the drive from Charleston to Darlington.

    FWIWW, Darlington looked like a weed-overgrown pit compared to AMS. Glad I didn’t drive that track.

    And FFWIW, I was pitifully slow. No career for me as a NASCAR driver.

  367. schabadoo says:

    To take a page from your book, prove it. My word is useless to you. Why should I accept yours?

    I don’t know what you are talking about and I’m not sure what you look to gain by ignoring simple facts and going with what you wish was true.

    -You said he refuses to salute the flag.

    -When shown that he does salute the flag, you then say he only started when he was running for office.

    -When reminded that the picture was from 2007…you continue on?

    You seem to need to be right on this, no matter the facts. It doesn’t seem healthy.

    You must love this.

  368. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [379] James

    Sounds like fun, but I have to work, and then I am attending a lecture at NYU on international politics that evening. Stop in on my former congresscritter, Ed “hair club for men” Markey, and give him my regards.

    Schab should come to the NYU event so he can take pictures if I drool on myself or if my clip-on tie comes undone.

  369. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [388] schab,

    Your conflation of this into a fight over right and wrong is the real issue. My opinion of the photo op isn’t dependent on, nor swayed by, what he did in 2007, it is swayed by a very public pair of stances he took in 2008, and his writings and statements from much earlier (as far back as 1983) when we were both in college.

    I don’t care that you think me mentally ill. I really don’t. In fact, when it comes to diagnosing mental illness on this board, I see no other contribution from you to discussion except to take issue with me over trivial matters. I don’t know whether to feel scared or vindicated to have my own personal stalker here (hint: it isn’t scared).

    One thing is certain: One of us needs to get some help. I’ll let the assembled decide which one of us that is.

    To quote from some movie, the title of which escapes me:

    “Good day sir. You can go to hell, sir.”

  370. schabadoo says:

    How does it make any sense to go on post after post about a topic, with out any facts, and ignoring any that are presented? It seems unhealthy.

    Trudging forward with ‘that was well-publicized and widely-discussed in MSM’…I guess that’s sort of like a fact.

  371. pricedOut says:

    Commercial lending giant CIT files bankruptcy

    Government to likely lose $2.3 billion it spent to prop company up last year


  372. james says:


    Wow! I knew it was coming but dam. That should make for a weak open tomorrow. I have my stop orders in but Im thinking about selling my current oil ETF up 24% since July and buying back in when the market corrects. Any thoughts?

    If CIT goes down there will be more.

  373. kettle1 says:


    who is obsessed with guns? i just want a cop walking around with a gun to be proficient with it. Which would include being familiar enough with the use of the weapon, through practice, to know whether or not you feel its a good weapon.

    firing at a range once a year is a joke, and for many police departments, that is all that is required.

  374. james says:


    I think people should be armed at all times. Its a dangerous world out there and you cant carry a cop on your hip.

    From my cold dead hands!

  375. kettle1 says:


    hypothetically, if you required everyone to have basic weapons training then a widely armed society would most likely be more civil. what we currently have is the worst of both worlds. lots of guns and lots of people who “think” they know about them and hence spread fear and misinformation whether intentional or not.

  376. james says:


    I agree. I think gun training should be a family affair like this guy.


  377. james says:

    I hope every American reads and understands the implications of the Copenhagen Treaty. Here is an article from the WSJ.


  378. sas says:

    “The final exam will require you to be drunk as you go up to the woman of your choice and say, “Gimme a little sugar.”

    close son, you were spot on except for this last sentence.

    Its not “Gimme a little sugar.”

    Its..in a very deep voice… you say “hey momma”

    thats how its done.

  379. sas says:

    “Commercial lending giant CIT files bankruptcy-Government to likely lose $2.3 billion it spent to prop company up last year”

    means nothing really, govt prints more and you get the bill. and it was already calucaled into the risk.

    in any case, u pay for it.

    and for those whom don’t think inflation is a tax, think twice.


  380. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “Commercial lending giant CIT files bankruptcy”

    Is Jim Cramer stil advising people to buy CIT shares?

  381. Morpheus says:

    Getting a little serious today.


    watch at 2:45

    we all have lot more in common than we think.

  382. Morpheus says:


    This one is for you:


    watch at 0.48 to 1:46

    Y’all are getting too serious. Now excuse me as I steal my kid’s candy.

  383. Barbara says:

    shades of 1995 up in here.

  384. Morpheus says:


    “O” is not the one. take it from me, I am an expert on that subject. He is not Neo.

  385. d2b says:

    Market rallies tomorrow. One precisely timed upgrade is all that is needed.

  386. lostinny says:

    Are we there yet?

    What a Median-Priced Home Looks Like in 10 Different Cities

    In the more than three years since the housing bubble popped, American real estate prices have declined at a historic clip. The national median price of an existing home dropped to $177,700 in August.


  387. kettle1 says:

    james morpheous

    a little practical self defense for you


  388. PGC says:

    #357 Got Ball?

    “First, I sincerely doubt you want a real discussion.”
    I would welcome a real discussion and will be waiting here to have one with you.

    “Second, you are asking for a professionally prepared analytical discourse on law, economics and politics. No problem, I do that all the time. However, as I indicated, I get paid for projects like this, so I expect a retainer. You are not a pro bono project.”

    That’s lame even for you. Do you hide behind your mother’s apron as well as the NJ Supreme court. That law degree you have would, suggest that you have an understanding of what the last administration did to the 4th amendments. If this administration does the same to the 2nd, will you be here classifying it as an “erosion”.
    You come out with a lot of “opinions” on the law in this forum, step to the plate and defend one for a change.

    Does the fact that you have a pro bono avenue, not render you point on the NJ Supreme court moot? Do we need to revisit the 60 credits of Gen Ed discussion again?

    “That is heresy in your world.”
    Again you make these assumptions, please define what you mean by “my world”. I am not a Democrat. I never have been and probably never will be. But are you actually taking that point on board that the Republican b1tching at the moment is just the other side of the Dems in 2000/2004?

  389. PGC says:

    #358 Got Ball?

    “Put down “Rules for Radicals” for a minute put together a complete thought.”
    Again you fail to engage to discuss your position and resort to the insult.

  390. james says:

    If you repeat a lie long enough it becomes the truth.

    The economy is improving everything is fine. Obama is not a Communist. Everything is fine.

    The economy is improving everything is fine. Obama is not a Communist. Everything is fine.

  391. PGC says:

    #360 Got Ball?

    It’s still singular. It came from when you picked up your ball and walked off the debate field last time. I feel another walk off approaching. I that it the case, it will be plural as it will show that you have no balls for debate. You seem to be very good at dishing it out, but seem to have a problem taking it.

  392. PGC says:

    #365 Clot
    And that City won’t win the league without a better manager.

  393. Morpheus says:

    That was funny, but I grew bored after the first minute.

    please, need more entertainment!

  394. yo'me says:

    Asia vs 8 developed Countries America get ready to pay


  395. PGC says:

    Do the brass ones hang off the back of your SUV?

  396. PGC says:

    #368 Got Ball?
    “Again with the insults?

    And again with the double standards

  397. james says:

    I think this guy is a little pissed.


  398. PGC says:

    #384 Got Ball?

    Was he in a location where his handlers told him “its a good idea senator; you should do this”?
    Why does John McCain “I am suspending my campaign” pop into my head.

  399. PGC says:

    #388 schabadoo
    You will need to ask his mother or the NJ Supreme court if he is allowed to answer.

  400. kettle1 says:

    i see things are going well in california

    California to withhold a bigger chunk of paychecks
    The amount goes up 10% on Sunday as Sacramento borrows from taxpayers. Technically, it’s not an income tax increase: You’ll get the money back eventually.


  401. EWellie says:

    Can anyone out there get me the history on MLS 2717816? I’m curious to see how much they owe. I know in ’99 it sold for 112K and in ’06 they paid 375K. I suspect they owe more than that.

  402. PGC says:

    Dede Scozzafava, sticks the knife in on the way out the door.

    GOP nominee endorses Democrat

    Will this actualy be good thing for Michael Steele? He will be able to come out and lay the blame for the Dems win, at the Conservatives door.

  403. pricedOut says:

    You seem to be very good at dishing it out, but seem to have a problem taking it.


    That is why he is not worth your time. I think that was advice you gave to me a couple of weeks ago :-)

  404. PGC says:


    I found your stash of Shiny. So its not in a vault in Austrailia…… :*)


  405. PGC says:

    #426 pricedOut

    I know, but he just keeps pitching curve balls over the fat part of the plate.

  406. jamil says:

    425 pgc. The candidate representing mainstream gop is now having double-digit lead in the most recent poll.

  407. jamil says:

    origally, local gop had nominated acorn supported dem. Base did not like it

  408. chicagofinance says:

    My Account
    Account Summary
    Starpoints®: 142093

  409. sas says:

    no more ninny posts.

    say whats on your mind, paste relevant articles, share experiences or insight, etc…

    debate, sure, but keep it above the belt

    I’m a fan of the boards, even reinvestor101, and hell… i have no problem if someone thinks I’m a fry short of the happy meal.

    just no more ninny

  410. sas says:

    ” i have no problem if someone thinks I’m a fry short of the happy meal”

    and I have no problem with it. I am comfortable in my skin.

    I wouldn’t touch serotonin reuptake inhibitors if you paid me a million bucks. total garbage.


  411. sas says:


    anyone catch 60 minutes tonight?
    worth a youtube search.

    The H1N1 segment was bs.
    however, the jap mafia segment and connectins to UCLA medical center was spot on. There is a story buried in the story, see if you can find it.

    I was actually borderline impressed.

    remember my post about underground organ market?

    like i said the other day, I’m more than just a pretty face.


  412. Shore Guy says:

    How nice will it be to win number 27? Sweet.

  413. Shore Guy says:

    It is profoundly unwise to owe so much to the Chinese government:


  414. james says:


    Holy Sh#t! I just watched the 60 minutes. I thought that was a conspiracy theory!

    Why is it that these so called conspiracy theories keep getting proven true as time passes. What else dont we know?

  415. james says:

    Dont know what to think about the organ program. When the FBI busted those NJ public officials in July I know one of those arrested was a Syrian Jew from Deal. This guy was involved in the organ donation business.

    Im not connecting the dots unless this is some sort of international scheme.

  416. james says:

    Alright SAS, Ill bite.

    Here is what I have found out about the organ donation scene. I have worked with the Sharing Network so I have a little knowledge and its spooky but I havent witnessed anything fishy.

    1. In China if you criticize the government you get sent to forced labor camps. They blood type you and figure out whether you are suitable for organ donation. If they are they sell them to the highest bidder.

    Am I hitting the target or the barn?

  417. meter says:

    “According to the report, Obama has created an enemies list which has FOXNEWS host Glenn Beck on top.”

    LOLOLOLOL. You wingnuts certainly do think highly of yourselves!

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