Buttoning up AC for the winter

From the Star Ledger:

Lack of guests leads Borgata to close rooms in Water Club Hotel

The Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa in Atlantic City is taking hundreds of rooms at its Water Club hotel out of service on Tuesdays through Thursdays because of low demand.

The casino also shuttered most of the posh year-old hotel’s 800 rooms on those days last March. They were reopened when bookings picked up over the summer.

The lower demand comes as Atlantic City’s casinos have struggled with a weak economy and increased gambling competition in Pennsylvania and New York.

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257 Responses to Buttoning up AC for the winter

  1. morpheus says:


  2. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    Senate Will Agree to Extend Homebuyer Tax Credit: Sources

    Senate Democrats are close to compromising on a provision that would extend the first-time homebuyer tax credit.

    Legislation creating the extension could be included in a bill that will extend unemployment benefits and could go to debate as early as this week, according to numerous media reports.

    What remains to be seen is the terms of the extension. Some reports indicate the extension would run through June 2010 and expanded to include all homebuyers, not just first-time purchasers.

    Another option would extend the full credit to first-time buyers until April 1, with $2,000 reductions every quarter until it dissolved at the end of 2010.

    The National Association of Realtors (NAR) and National Association of Home Builders (NAHB), along with the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA) continue to lobby federal officials to extend the credit.

    According to the latest Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and Census Bureau data, the rate of new home sales declined 3.6% in September. Some have speculated the impending expiration of the credit is contributing to the decline.

  3. grim says:

    FT Home Buyer Credit…

    As American as apple pie, and the mortgage interest deduction.

    …quickly on it’s way to becoming permanent.

    Think of it as a housewarming gift from Uncle Sam.

  4. Schumpeter says:

    grim (3)-

    I prefer to think of it as the kill shot to whatever shred of housing market still exists.

    At least if they extend it to June, it gives me time to develop my shutdown/walkaway plans. July, 2010 should be one helluva bad month for housing sales.

  5. sas says:


    i wonder what the % payout is out in AC.

    alot of casino’s limit the % payput, and call it a profit.


  6. sas says:

    I endorse the Omama shut the f*ck up bill.


  7. sas says:

    interesting go with this
    350 ppm cap on atmospheric CO2.

    I can tell you right now that extortion of delegates, issuing of fake passports, and prostitution (over on e.62 & Lex) runs wild over there.

    They should make a flick:
    “NYU girls and UN delegates run wild”.


  8. Stu says:

    GDP 3.5%
    price index .8%

  9. Schumpeter says:

    I think I’m going to have this made into wallpaper for my office:


    I’m beginning to really enjoy Reggie Middleton.

  10. Painhrtz says:

    WO would never happen it doesn’t expand the intrusion of government in our lives, increas the deficit nor does it increase the burden on taxpayers. Something the current administration and at times the previous administration were clearly for.

  11. Stu says:


    Reggie’s a trip. I’ve been reading his stuff for the last two years and I especially like the way he refers to banks as doo doo and poop.

  12. Schumpeter says:

    I love the smell of truth. More from Reg:

    “Well, a lot has happened since then, including a massive bank rally. But if you look at the those banks whose NIM’s remained level or dropped when rates dropped, you get an interesting list. Let’s see here: Countrywide – gone, Wachovia – gone, Bank of America, soon to be gone, broken up and/or running back to the taxpayer for the next bailout, and those other banks such as Marshall & Illsey – keep your eye out. My thesis still stands. Many, if not nearly half, of America’s banks are sick. What have they done to self medicate? Well, they are trying to make up for those thinning margins, or even in the case where margins are thickening they are preparing since they know and I know and you should know too that the Fed is artificially suppressing rates in an unsustainable fashion. The only place to go from zero is higher!

    So, banks are now attempting to horde capital in an effort to cushion shocks coming in the near future, and most likely cushion the shocks that they expect from their wreckless lending actions from the recent past. Many have been kicking the can down the road using various methods as described to my subscribers in the BOKF earnings opinions linked above and as shown to the public in posts such as They ARE trying to kick the bad mortgages down the road, here’s proof! As far as I can see, they are trying to kick the can far enough to earn their way out of the bad balance sheet hole, and appear to have the explicit OK from the government (see Charting the Truth). ”


  13. grim says:

    Recession over, party on.

  14. Schumpeter says:

    What a spoil sport this guy is. Doesn’t Middleton know it’s all about money-for-nothing?:

    “The point is that the FDIC is not sufficiently penalizing those institutions who are offering products, services, or activities that are sufficiently outside the bounds of what many of us call traditional banking. This accusation ranges from Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Citibank and JP Morgan (reference again “The Next Step in the Bank Implosion Cycle???”), to the Bank of Oklahoma with their equity embedded CDs. As a result of not having to pay extra insurance to reach for that extra dollar in deposits or extra yield in the trading markets, we have an arbitrage situation that is being abused by banks, both big and small.”

  15. Schumpeter says:

    grim (17)-

    You party. I’ll get my gat.

  16. sas says:

    “Recession over, party on”

    yeah! debt & layoffs for everyone….

    grim, get down from that bar stool and take off that lamp shade, your cut off…


  17. 3b says:

    #2 Some have speculated the impending expiration of the credit is contributing to the decline.

    Maybe I am just a moron, but can someone explain the above to me?

    I was going to buy a house in Sept, but now that I know the credit is going to expiire in November, I did not buy a house?

  18. Painhrtz says:

    Adama: Starbuck, what do you hear?
    Starbuck: Nothing but the rain.
    Adama: Then grab your gun and bring in the cat.
    Starbuck: Boom, boom, boom! / Wilco! / Aye-aye, sir!

  19. safeashouses says:

    Party like its 1929.

  20. Cindy says:


    @ 23 – Here ya go Bairen…Loose Bruce

  21. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    So, will this be the NJ Real Estate and Ecclesiastical Report again today?

    No? How about some biz-politics then?

    Politicians Butt In at Bailed-Out GM

    “Montana Rep. Denny Rehberg was no fan of the $58 billion federal rescue of General Motors Co., saying he worried taxpayer money would be wasted and the restructuring process would be vulnerable to “political pressure.” Now the lawmaker says it’s his “patriotic duty” to wade into GM’s affairs.

    Along with Montana’s two Democratic senators, the Republican congressman is battling to get GM to reinstate a contract with a Montana palladium mine nullified in bankruptcy court. “The simple fact is, when GM took federal dollars, they lost some of their autonomy,” Mr. Rehberg says.

    Federal support for companies such as GM, Chrysler Group LLC and Bank of America Corp. has come with baggage: Companies in hock to Washington now have the equivalent of 535 new board members — 100 U.S. senators and 435 House members.

    Since the financial crisis broke, Congress has been acting like the board of USA Inc., invoking the infusion of taxpayer money to get banks to modify loans to constituents and to give more help to those in danger of foreclosure. Members have berated CEOs for their business practices and pushed for caps on executive pay. They have also pushed GM and Chrysler to reverse core decisions designed to cut costs, such as closing facilities and shuttering dealerships. . . .”


  22. NJGator says:

    “So, will this be the NJ Real Estate and Ecclesiastical Report again today?”

    This is great timing. As I come out of the subway every morning, I am now greeted by ads that say “A million New Yorkers are Good Without God”. Apparently the atheists are the only ones who are spending on advertising these days.

  23. lisoosh says:

    3b says:
    October 29, 2009 at 8:46 am

    “I was going to buy a house in Sept, but now that I know the credit is going to expiire in November, I did not buy a house?”

    I noticed that too – the spin became the defacto reality repeated ad nauseum. Whoever wrote that press release should get a raise.

  24. Shore Guy says:


    I don’t want to even try to picture this wedding night.

  25. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Tax News of the Day:

    “Merged House Health Care Legislation
    Including Tax Increases Set for Release

    Legislation revamping the nation’s health care system and funded in part with an increase in taxes on high-income earners will be unveiled Oct. 29, House Democratic leaders said after hours of meetings Oct. 28.

    The legislation—a merger of three bills approved earlier this summer by the Ways and Means, Energy and Commerce, and Education and Labor committees—will include a public insurance option with negotiated provider payment rates, rather than the robust public option for which the leadership has struggled to find enough votes. The main revenue raiser for the approximately $900 million bill is a surtax on households earning more than $500,000 per year.
    Throughout the day Oct. 28 Democrats cautioned that the bill was still coming together as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and the leadership held meetings with various groups to discuss the final product.

    According to Pelosi’s office, House Democrats have scheduled an event for 10:30 a.m. Oct. 29. The full House Democratic Caucus is set to meet earlier that morning to discuss health care. Later in the day, leaders of the Progressive Caucus, Congressional Black Caucus, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, and the Asian Pacific American Caucus will meet with President Obama at the White House.

    Democrats Promise 72-Hour Window

    Even with Democrats readying the bill for a public release, the final language of it will continue to evolve as the legislation moves to the floor. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) told reporters he expects a manager’s amendment to the bill.

    He also said Democrats will meet their commitment to provide a 72-hour public viewing period after the release of the bill, a window that applies to both the bill and the manager’s amendment, according to Hoyer.

    The 72-hour requirements would push floor consideration of the legislation until at least the middle of the week of Nov. 2.”

    Oooh. 72 hours to digest a monumental bill before it gets rubber-stamped on a party line vote. How statesmanlike of the House leadership. How bipartisan.

    And if you think the financial damage is limited to the wealthy, I have a bridge over the Hudson that I need to unload cheap. BOHICA, everyone.

  26. lisoosh says:

    3b – Perhaps you would better prefer the “idea” I heard from a mortgage guy that housings “woes” (and the economy of course) could be cured by having the government guarantee the value/purchase price of all homes.

    Because, as he said, they haven’t really done anything to support housing…..

    /off sarc

  27. 3b says:

    #30 Seriously? Are you kidding?

  28. Shore Guy says:

    ” Apparently the atheists are the only ones who are spending on advertising these days”


    My church has been spending so much money fending off and settling claims against priests who were so far from “good” and abused so many children that it calls into question the moral authority of the priesthood and the church itself (as well as the expenses of closing parish after parish) that it would be hard to imagine there being much of an advertising budget left over.

  29. Schumpeter says:

    plume (29)-

    No need to read any of it. I’m sure it will be a brilliant document that achieves its three goals perfectly:

    1. Distract the sheeple from core issues threatening the country.

    2. Turn different factions of sheeple against each other. Divide and conquer.

    3. Further drain the middle class of what shreds of wealth it still holds.

  30. Cindy says:

    I would never fault anyone’s belief system that helped them make it through the day…period.

  31. 3b says:

    #27 It is shocking to me, that somebody could write that statement. It makes absolutely no sense.

  32. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [28] shore

    So Somalia has its own version of Anna Nicole Smith???

  33. Shore Guy says:

    “Legislation revamping the nation’s health care system and funded in part with an increase in taxes on high-income earners will be unveiled Oct. 29,”

    They should do it on the 31st — the date is more appropriate.

  34. lisoosh says:

    3b. -Nope. Heard loud and clear on Bloomberg yesterday. The talking head interviewer was perfectly complementary and suggested that any listening congressmen should consider it.

    Every day I draw closer to Clots fatalism.

  35. Shore Guy says:


    The first hundred years are the hardest.

  36. lisoosh says:

    3b says:
    October 29, 2009 at 9:18 am

    “#27 It is shocking to me, that somebody could write that statement. It makes absolutely no sense.”

    Makes perfect sense if you want to use negative news to your advantage. Increased home sales mean the “success” of the program. Decreased sales mean that people are scared to move without the program (even if it still exists).

    The ultimate goal is the extension of the program.

    I don’t expect any more from the cheerleaders, but not ONE person questioned it yesterday when repeating the headline. Not one. That is the saddest thing.

  37. lisoosh says:

    Shore -hundred years of what?

  38. Secondary Market says:

    obligatory: Phillies!

    carry on…

  39. Shore Guy says:

    The police in Philly have nothing better to do?


  40. Shore Guy says:



  41. Shore Guy says:

    Or, in Japan, a mortgage.

  42. sas says:

    “The police in Philly have nothing better to do?”

    look at that pic…
    reminds me of those fuzzy pencils.


  43. NJGator says:

    Shore 43 – Won’t you feel safer in Philly now?

  44. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    For those of you in the military, maybe you can tell me, what is wrong with this picture?


    With a stern countenance, our President in crisp blue suit and tie, stands stiffly and salutes crisply as flag draped coffins are carried by.

    No fan of the One, I see this as a pathetic attempt at a photo op, given his past actions and statements.

    But here is the rub: I am not a military man, but I seem to recall that there is some protocol when it comes to who salutes, and when, and this strikes me as improper (not to mention comical) Anyone who served, can they help me out on this?

  45. NJGator says:

    Stu and I caught up on missed TV with FIOS On Demand last night and watched the last episode of Calif*rnication. That’s 30 minutes of my life I will never get back. Ugh…

  46. 3b says:

    #40 That is the new world, question nothing, accept what you are instrucrted to accept. If you disagree remain silent.

  47. d2b says:

    Woman works for Penn. Getting free tickets from a radio station. Considering ticket prices, I wouldn’t even trade her for pre-season tickets.

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [43] shore guy

    Wonder how her husband (yes, she is married) feels this morning?

    If he was ever contemplating divorce, now’s the time. Nothing like a prostitution rap to help with the custody argument.

  49. NJGator says:

    Nom 52 – Or perhaps he’s such a big Phillies fan that he was okay with the arrangement.

  50. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [53] gator,

    Hmmm. Yes. I see.

    I understand that Stu is a big fan of Montclair State. Now, if someone had tickets to homecoming? Hmmmm.

  51. Shore Guy says:

    “Economy grows for first time in a year, with GDP rising 3.5 percent in third quarter”

    Does this mean we can end the subsidies and bailouts? Or, does this “prove” their worth and guarantee they continue forever?

  52. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [53] gator,

    True story. Wife was called by friend in Philly, who asked if we wanted to go to one of the games. She (a Phillies fan) said yes, I’ll go, but I don’t know if Nom wants to since he has no dog in this fight. So please order two tickets and I will bring my friend who is a Yankees fan.

    I found all of this out after the fact. I was soooooooooo p.o.’ed.

  53. Shore Guy says:

    “Or perhaps he’s such a big Phillies fan that he was okay with the arrangement”

    “Well I was at work then and not using her at the moment and, besides, they were box seats behind the Yankee dugout. Go Phils!”

  54. make money says:


    Turkey says bye bye greenback when trading with China and Russia.


    What do they know? They’re a bunch of turkey’s right.

  55. Painhrtz says:

    Nom commander and chief can salute. Uniformed personel are required to salute to the Prez which he should acknowledge.

    Usually incoming presidents with no military background are given some form of training on proper military protocol. At least that is how it was taught to me by step dad – 3rd generation navy.

    On the other had it does come across as a photo op and comical.

    I stand by my Il duce opinion of the big O

  56. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [56] shore

    We already reached that point some time ago.

    For as long as I could remember, Uncle Sucker was the world’s largest customer. And if it wasn’t apparent, our economy has essentially geared itself toward government spending. It won’t replace private consumer spending as the driver of the economy, but it will essentially eclipse business spending.

    Already, there are a number of businesses that cater only to the federal government. And they are typically pretty good stock buys as a result.

  57. NJGator says:

    Nom 55/57 – MSU is a joke. I doubt you even need tickets to go to any of their games. Wouldn’t the better analogy be what Stu was willing to do to get me Gator tickets? Big game against Georgia this weekend.

    And it sounds to me like Mrs. Nom is in trouble.

  58. sas says:

    “But here is the rub: I am not a military man, but I seem to recall that there is some protocol when it comes to who salutes, and when, and this strikes me as improper (not to mention comical) Anyone who served, can they help me out on this?”

    as far as I know, he did the correct thing.
    when a casket passes, you salute.

    he did the right thing.
    for once

  59. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [60] pain,

    Can salute, yes, but wasn’t the rule always that a salute was rendered only if in uniform?

    And as for the photo, the more I think about it, the more it reminds me of Dukakis in the tank.

  60. Secondary Market says:

    Nom, I believe you have all the leverage in the world to request a Mancation, now.

  61. NJGator says:

    I have a good friend that used to work for the Mets. We used to get playoff and regular season tickets for free. She recently left the Mets and it’s only because the Mets are so bad now that Stu has been able to forgive her.

  62. Shore Guy says:


    I also feel that B.O. is a monumental putz but, I think he did the right thing at Dover — except he should not have brought the press, or at least not photogs.

  63. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [62] gator,

    I was being facetious. The idea of putting out for MSU tickets reminds me of the joke about the woman who decided to make some money as a lady of the evening.

    The next morning, she tells her friend, she made $100.25. Her friend asked her, “who gave you the quarter?”

    The erstwhile prostitute said “everybody.”

  64. Shore Guy says:

    “Can salute, yes, but wasn’t the rule always that a salute was rendered only if in uniform”

    Ronald Reagan and Geo. Bush The Elder as well as Geo. Bush the Putz, regularly saluted dressed in a suit.

  65. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Shore, Pain and SAS,

    Thanks for the input. I don’t disagree that it wasn’t respectful, and I would not think less of him for honoring our dead.

    It just comes across as contrived, coming from a president that never served, and refused to salute the flag before becoming president.

  66. make money says:


    Nothing wrong with it. Here in NYC you always see 60+ yr old wealthy man with a 20yr old model chick.

    Don’t hate the player hate the game. I could only wish to be humping at age of 112. let alone a fresh 18 yr old.

  67. d2b says:

    Given the reverence of that facility in Dover, I think that a photo op is a bit inappropiate. The company that I worked for was involved in that place during construction. There is a certain silence in that building which is ironic given that it’s on and AFB.

    Having said that, it truly brings home the cost of war. It’s a humbling place. I respect the man for wanting to go there.

    I thought that the last administration underestimated the emotional cost of war on the military. Maybe that’s what you want out of senior leadership since they have to make difficult decisions. I’m glad that I don’t have to make them.

  68. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [69] shore,

    Yes, and Reagan got a lot of crap for that, I recall. But see my prior post.

  69. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [70] errata

    s/b “was respectful”

  70. Shore Guy says:

    “It just comes across as contrived”

    That is why it should have been done without photos. I hated that Bush never once went to Dover; it bespoke a lack of consideration for the people who died under his command. B.O. should have gone, but quietly.

  71. d2b says:

    Nom 70-
    I don’t fault Obama for not serving in the military. He finished high school in the late 70s during a time of no war.

    When I finished high school in the late 80s the only people going into the military were the poor looking for career help. It seemed to be a period where people used the military for it’s benefits, rather that to serve. Even classmates that went into the ROTC did it for financial reasons.

    I inhailed, so I’ll never run for office.

  72. Shore Guy says:


    Am I the only one who is getting the feeling that the government in Iraq is about as stable and in control of things as Duong Van Minh was in 1975?

    Perhaps we should declare victory and leave.

  73. Painhrtz says:

    Big O correct in going to Dover yes.

    Photo op tasteless, just my humble opinion

  74. safeashouses says:

    #24 Cindy

    So appropriate.

  75. safeashouses says:

    They should just button up all of AC. Complete dump.

  76. Stu says:

    “And it sounds to me like Mrs. Nom is in trouble.”

    You can say that again!

  77. james says:

    If it was me in that coffin and I knew I would be paraded in front of that treasonous Communist bastard I would have had a death letter that told them to leave me in Afghanistan.

  78. Stu says:

    I hate to say it, but that O in Dover picture looks like a Photoshop job.

  79. Sean says:

    re: #77 Damm near total chaos there again, and its going to get worse. Maliki removed all of the blast walls in that area in an attempt to try and open the area up for commerce again.

    More on Blast walls in Iraq.


  80. jcer says:

    safe, they don’t need to close AC they just need to bulldoze 60-80% and build something good there. If all of AC was a nice as Borgata it would be a nicer place to visit.

  81. hughesrep says:


    It looks like a video still. I wonder how long the intern at Fox News had to go frame by frame until they found the least flattering pic?

  82. 3b says:

    #85 Just partition it and get it over with. It was an artificial creation in the first place.

  83. Raul V says:

    End of the recession??? Are they for real…..it’s Uncle Sam spending our dollars and printing tons of money…..regular folks are flat out broke!!!!

    Spin…baby…Spin!!! LOL


  84. sas says:

    about the Omama photo:

    not sure if it was a photo op. Camera follow this guy everywhere. the press should not be allowed at funerals if you ask me.

    don’t get me wrong, i don’t fault Omama in this case, but make no mistake, he will stick a fork in you, and smile while doing it.


  85. sas says:

    “U.S. economy grew at 3.5 percent pace in third quarter, marking end of long deep recession”

    little summer pick up, govt stimulus.
    makes for good press and to get you back in the shopping mood.

    but, there is still a hole in the bucket.


  86. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [82] stu

    She is promising to make it up to me (in the same email about spending nearly 2K on furniture for D1’s bedroom).

  87. Painhrtz says:

    SAS hole in the bucket!?

    There is no bottom to the bucket.

  88. Stu says:

    It’s one thing for Obama to ham it up, but this is just wrong.


  89. Happy Daze says:

    and it’s sitting overtop a well!

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [85] sean

    Hmmm. Business opportunity for right here in the US perhaps?

    Maybe I can get stimulus $$$ for a business building the blast walls and towers for future Nompounds.

  91. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [95] stu

    Best laugh in weeks!

  92. james says:

    Ill trade the next 5 years of economic growth for a sound currency.

  93. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Well, it’s out, and I think it safe to say it is more of a tax bill than a healthcare bill.

    “Democrats Unveil Massive Health Care Bill Including Tax Increases on the Wealthy

    Posted October 29, 2009, 10:52 A.M. ET

    House Democrats unveiled a health care proposal Oct. 29 that is largely paid for with a 5.4 percent surtax on high-income households with a modified adjusted gross income of more than $1 million.

    The Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962) also is paid for by a 2.5 percent excise tax on medical devices sold for use in the United States, mandatory information reporting on payments made in the course of a trade or business to a corporation, and a nine-year delay until Dec. 31, 2019, in the application of worldwide allocation of interest.

    Other offsets include a limitation on treaty benefits for certain deductible payments, codification of the economic substance doctrine, and addition of a “more likely than not” standard for tax penalties on underpayments by certain large or publicly traded persons.

    It also would require that money in pre-tax health spending plans from being used to purchase over-the-counter drugs and would place a $2,500 cap on employee contributions to flexible spending plans.”

    If this puppy comes to pass, I think I will be busy. Very busy.

  94. sas says:

    speaking of caskets… one time, we were doing an undercover operation.

    one of the meeting places, 4 degree C room in the morgue, ain’t nobody gonna find you there.

    and another time, i was asked to observe an autopsy, this guy who passed had one of those pacemaker tickers in the chest. but someone forgot to turn it off, and when the pathologist did his little Y cut, he got a nice shock almost KO’d him to the floor.

    Talk about not catching a falling knife, how about don’t catch a falling pathologist with a scalpel the size of a steak knife in hand.


  95. Shore Guy says:

    ” there is still a hole in the bucket”


    It may be time to think like The Matrix, as in “There is no bucket, just the perception of one.”

    Red Pill anyone?

  96. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [100] james

    I will offer discounts for people that pay in loonies, yuan or gold.

  97. chicagofinance says:

    albani: reading the Kanun…..”…a woman is a sack who must endure…”

    Dammit, I’ve been living wrong….I have to read the riot act to my Bryn Mawr womyn about how things are going to be from now on….

    Shore Guy says:
    October 29, 2009 at 9:12 am
    I don’t want to even try to picture this wedding night.

  98. Shore Guy says:

    “publicly traded persons”

    Is that just another word for prost-itute?

  99. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [101] redux

    The bill text is 1,990 pages.

    The dems say the public gets 72 hours to digest it.

    Better get cracking, folks.

  100. Shore Guy says:

    Who wants a single dip when they csn have a double dip?


  101. 3b says:

    #101 I have asked this question before, but here goes again. What is to stop any private sector employer who currently offers health insurance to its employees from dropping it, now that we are going to have a national system.

  102. Sean says:

    Grim # 107 and #108 in Mod, link to T2 Partners Housing Presentation

  103. Shore Guy says:


    Is it filled with section 234.45(c) 1 is amended by replacing “to” with “within.”

    and such? If so, that 1,990 pages is more like 10,000, or more.

  104. Shore Guy says:

    “What is to stop any private sector employer who currently offers health insurance to its employees from dropping it, now that we are going to have a national system.”

    There was talk of an extra tax, but if the extra tax is less than the cost of insurance….

  105. yo'me says:

    Prime Minister Kevin Rudd – Australia

    Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..
    Separately, Rudd angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation’s mosques. Quote:

    ‘IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. ‘

    ‘This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom’

    ‘We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!’

    ‘Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.’

    ‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.’

    ‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE’..’
    ‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here.. So accept the country YOU accepted.’
    Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths.

  106. sas says:

    “What is to stop any private sector employer who currently offers health insurance to its employees from dropping it, now that we are going to have a national system”

    that IS the whole idea.
    switch the burden from the corporations & place the burden on you the sap taxpayer.

    and if you don’t buy into the govt plan, then they will FINE you.

    ha ha ha….

  107. Shore Guy says:

    With B.O. in the WH and the Dems in charge of the legislative body, is anyone else beginning to feel like a Kulak in 1917?

  108. sas says:

    “Gardasil Researcher Drops A Bombshell
    Harper: Controversal Drug Will Do Little To Reduce Cervical Cancer Rates”

    i posted that diddy last night.
    Gardasil is crap, don’t take it.
    if you have… well… just close your eyes and tell yourself you didn’t.


  109. yo'me says:

    Barnabas health system just announced to stop matching 401k’s and end all pension plan.Great!!No wonder economy is growing.

  110. Shore Guy says:


    What is the source for that Australian piece? I can’t find it in a search of recent news.

  111. sas says:

    “end all pension plan”

    what did I tell you when this blod first started and grim tried to generate traffic via the yahoo finace message boards…

    keep your eyes on the funds!
    next up, buzz word: privatization

    when you hear those 2 words used together, look out, cause it ain’t going to be pretty.


  112. schlivo says:

    SHors, SAS,
    Thanks for the Gardasil info. Had already suspected as much and opted not to have my daughter administered this shot.

  113. sas says:

    review the process of monetizing debt, how it works. and review what happened to argentina.


  114. yo'me says:

    Shore it was emailed to me by a friend from sydney

  115. sas says:


    thats like the flu shot, ain’t no way I’m taken the flu shot.

    I wash hands frequently, carry those wee ETOH hand gels, avoid sick people.

    If I get flu, oh well, i eat chicken noodle soup and wrap self up in a blanket and just wait it out the natural way.

    you think I want to be injected with SV40 cancer virus and neurotoxin Hg? heck no.


  116. Shore Guy says:

    I did not see it at smh or via google or yahoo. It just makes me wonder.

  117. John says:

    Today I had a laugh when I saw the new income guidelines for the home buyer tax credit, up to $225,000 per couple. Even more funny New York is coming up with a property tax relief program for households on Long Island who make below $300,001 dollars a year.

    The rest of the USA is glad to know that people scrappng by on $300,000 qualify for lower income tax breaks.

  118. Shore Guy says:


    Check out the Snopes report on that piece:


  119. HEHEHE says:

    Re 108:

    How is the economy standing on its own legs?

    “Sure, the economy’s standing up on its own legs again, but for how long once the government stimulus starts to fade?” said Chris Rupkey, an economist with Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi in New York

  120. safeashouses says:

    Shore Guy and yo’me

    That’s at least 4 or 5 years old and an urban legend. Originally claimed to have come from John Howard (PM before Rudd)


  121. d2b says:

    Imagine what we could have done with no sitmlus. As Clot says, burn it down and start over.

  122. sas says:

    “hand gels”

    they shouldn’t replace a good handwashing. sort of a on the go. i use it after a subway or NJT ride.

    The handgels work by denaturation of proteins and disrupts how it would bind to a human receptor. so, i think they work well for both bacteria & viruses.

    but too well, leaves my hands dry, and from what I understand, it kills alot of “good bacteria” too. and good/harmless bacteria competes with the bad stuff, and usually wins out. but it you kill it off, it can be counterproductive.

    anyways… thats what I’m told.


  123. sas says:

    well, all of a sudden I’m in the mood for an oatmeal raisin cookie and coffee.


  124. 3b says:

    #112 So at the end of the day they can drop coverage if they wish, which is always what I suspected.

  125. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [109] 3b

    Yes, and here is how it will happen:

    The bill provides that, if you don’t participate, you pay a tax of 8% of payroll (total payrolls under 500k exempt).

    Another part of the bill requires minimum payment of premiums–employers must cover 72% of single plan cost, 65% of family plan cost. So future costs will be borne pro rata.

    Now, here is the kicker–this plan basically makes it more likely that lower paid people end up on the public option. It is more cost-effective to dump health care and pay the tax if you have lower paid employees than higher paid ones. 8% of a 40K salary is $3200, but health benes for that person probably cost a lot more. By contrast, the tax on someone earning 200K is 16,000, which may be higher than the health care cost. Further, in a business with higher paid profit centers and lower paid cost centers, which employees will get the axe? Yep.

    And here is the unkindest cut of all. Outsourcing means that you can cut a department (usually lower earners) and outsource the work to a small biz that has a headcount under the threshold. Voila, you put all your employees in that group off of healthcare and avoided the tax.

    That’s what I see, and I haven’t read the whole bill, just skimmed the section by section explanation. So, yes, businesses will push people over to the public option, and it will be largely the lower earning classes.

    And when you consider that doctors and practices will refuse to accept the public option, or accept only what they have to because compensation is lower, then you have two-tier health care: Better care for the higher earners, and gov. care for the rest.

    That’s my $0.02. And PGC, Essex, Schab, and Vic, I expect you to take issue with me but understand, I am not saying yea or nay to the bill–I am one of those that, under Obamacare, will profit more than I am hurt. Now, it will be much like how a vulture profits from a rotting corpse, but I didn’t make the rules.

  126. chicagofinance says:

    Chinese Drywall Emits Sulphuric Gas, U.S. Safety Probe Finds
    Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A

    By Mark Drajem

    Oct. 29 (Bloomberg) — U.S. investigators said Chinese drywall emits high levels of sulphuric gas while stopping short of linking the building material to illnesses.

    “They find chemical elements, but they don’t find enough to be detrimental to people’s health,” Florida Senator Bill Nelson told reporters.

    To contact the reporter on this story: Mark Drajem in Washington at mdrajem@bloomberg.net

  127. Painhrtz says:

    3b bingo, it is for their corporate puppetmasters and control.

    funny thing is I’m currently working for a healthcare company that was all gung ho about the health care bill thinking it would greatly increase our thin margins. Then the folks down in Washington decided our little niche in the industry should subsidize it with 40 billion in new taxes. Needless to say the opinion of our board members shifted on healthcare reform

  128. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [130] safe,

    Damn, and I was going to nominate him for President (hey, if we could have had Obama or McCain, we could naturalize Howard or Rudd).

  129. Painhrtz says:

    Nom I have always wondered if an American candidate took that stance what the backlash would be.

    Wait a minute Pat Buchanan did, nevermind.

  130. safeashouses says:


    Howard is GW on a regional scale.

    That’s why Rudd is now PM. Howard was greatly despised for being GW’s lapdog.

  131. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [109] 3b

    Actually, I have to digress somewhat. There is no outright prohibition, but there is authority in the bill for a new agency to make rules to prohibit employers from shifting employees to the public option.

    What form those rules would take is anyone’s guess, but consider this: Essentially any business decision that would result in employee coverage being dropped would be subject to the scrutiny and regulation of this new agency. The IRS already does this with economic substance: if your merger, sale, reorg, etc. looked more like a tax-savings move than a decision made for business reasons, then you lose (which means one cannot consider saving on taxes as a legitimate business planning goal). The same would be true for employers: If you decided to outsource your warehouse staff, could the government come in and either prevent you from doing it, or assess you a “make-up” tax that negates your health care savings? The answer is yes.

  132. Stu says:

    I kind of like the new plan.

    Screw the poor! Oh wait.

  133. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [141] redux,

    If there is rulemaking to prevent employers from shifting employees to the public option, the best way to avoid this would be for employers to cut or outsource staff before the rules took effect, thus lowering their risk profile and getting a “grandfathered” effect. New hires could simply be avoided by the use of temps, leased employees, or outsourcing.

    I seem to recall Schabadoo telling me that this was delusional. We’ll see.

  134. 3b says:

    #135 Interesting/Alarming. What about the scenario of a 200K attorney with a 40K a year secretary in the same firm.

  135. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [144] 3b

    Essentially it is a business decision. What will the math dictate?

    What I find funny is that there will be rules to restrain businesses, but there is also the 8% rule. So, in the end, a lot of businesses may not have a choice—they will be barred from availing themselves of the (former) right to dump coverage and pay the 8%.

    Again, the rules haven’t been drafted, and once there is an ANPR, I expect a small flurry of activity by employers who would best benefit.

  136. 3b says:

    #137 What is thought in you firm as to whether it ultimatley passes or not?

  137. 3b says:

    $145 Do you think it ultimately passes (the bill)?

  138. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [146] Pain

    I did not see if it functioned as a sales tax or as an income tax.

    If the latter, it puts US manufacturers at a disadvantage since foreign makers would be subject only to US sales (if at all), while US makers are subject on worldwide sales.

    If the former, or if a surcharge is applied to US income of foreign makers, it may violate either the Constitution or nearly all of our treaties.

  139. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    Not in that form. There is so much wrong with this bill, it isn’t funny.

    Might as well call it the Lawyers Full Employment Act as it will keep attorneys employed for years to come.

  140. Stu says:

    I say absolutely not. When was the last time something that would hurt big business passed?

  141. #150 – When was the last time something that would hurt big business passed?

    Sometime circa T Roosevelt’s admin.

  142. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [150] stu

    ATEOTD, it would hurt workers. Businesses adapt, and recall that a uniform tax is, in theory, not anticompetitive within a nation, but only as to multinational trade.

    The way to avoid the taxes and costs is simple: Cut full-time headcount. For those that can’t be cut, reduce other expenses and/or raise prices. This will further depress business, particularly in businesses with elastic demand, Eventually, econ. activity reaches an equilibrium at a lower level.

    So, it will depress economic activity (aside from gov and health care, but the latter not much), and unemployment will creep up while businesses learn to maximize profits at lower gross production levels.

  143. Shore Guy says:

    In mod

  144. Shore Guy says:

    Yet another incident that must have our brothers and sisters n the UK wondering how we ever became a world power:


  145. sas says:

    Comrade Nom Deplume ,

    good post @ 152.
    spot on


  146. sas says:

    interesting story:

    “Mystery ship back in Malta
    Mystery ship laden with timber returns to Malta after odyssey from Finland to Africa”

    keywords in the article: “loaded with timber”

    remember what I told you awhile back about the black market & smuggling of tires & timber.

    I’m not just a pretty face

  147. Stu says:


    I don’t disagree with your assessment at all. Though there really is an issue with the escalating costs of health care and barring tort reform (will never happen) and a ban on keeping people alive way longer than is economically viable, I really don’t see a better option. Sure the government plan will suck compared to a private plan. So does being a janitor compared with being a school administrator.

    Many of us on this blog are well off and don’t qualify for many if any federal relief options. We are fortunate that we can afford the 15% increases on health care coverage that our employees offer us. I happen to work at a print plant where many employees are quite lowly compensated. These are true blue collar workers. They can’t afford the 15% increases every year. They are willing to accept a reduction in the quality of their healthcare to ensure that food gets on their family table.

    I’m not sure that this plan is the best or is even close to it, but I don’t see the UNHs or the Oxfords of the world offering any choice for those not well compensated. If forcing those who make $12 an hour or below to a government sponsored healthcare plan will reduce their health care costs and consequently create a two-tier system, then so be it. The insurers have truly bought this on themselves. Every time a 100-year old gets a heart transplant, we are all paying for something that we should not be. Of course the insurers are all for healing everyone and anyone. Every dollar that exchanges hands provides a greater opportunity to shave pennies. It’s really no difference as to how hazard insurance works. There is never anything better than a hurricane for an insurance company. They can they raise their rates on everyone to cover their short-term losses and then when the disaster is a distant memory, the rates are never lowered so they profit even more.

    Personally, I feel that if we can print money to bailout Wall Street, then we should stop the tax on individual corporations to pay for the public option and just start the presses to pay for it. Why not?

  148. Shore Guy says:

    replace with an o, actually

  149. skep-tic says:

    re: late last night conversation on evolution of thought.

    I don’t think people are any smarter now than they ever were in history on the big picture issues. If you ever read the classics it is mind blowing how much sh*t they figured out.

    I believe Barbara alluded to the fact that the assumption of heightened enlightenment is a major weakness of modern people. Thus we have taken seriously ideas that drastically overestimate our abilities like Marxism or Hegelian “end of history” stuff.

    Actually, that Hegelian crap is directly relevant to the “new paradigm” BS that everyone believed in shortly before the RE bubble popped.

    If nothing else, religion contains a kernel of recognition of our stupidity and powerlessness.

  150. Shore Guy says:


    This is for you:


    Sandra Bullock in custody battle with p0rn star

    The Hollywood star is facing a nasty legal battle as her husband’s ex-wife launches a custody fight

    America’s sweetheart, the actress Sandra Bullock, is being dragged into an unpleasant legal battle to prove that she is a better parent than her husband’s former wife, the star of more than 100 p0rn0graphic movies.

    Bullock is backing claims by her husband Jesse James, the television celebrity, that they have made a good home for Sunny, his five-year-old daughter.

    His ex-wife Janine Lindemulder, 40, star of such video titles as Mrs Behavin’, Sleeping Booty and Dyke Diner, disagrees. She has just been released from a six-month prison sentence for tax evasion.


  151. Stu says:

    Shore (161):

    Check this out!

    In 1999, Janine announced she was leaving the adult film industry to pursue a career as a kindergarten teacher.[14] She also stated her reason for leaving was to focus more on raising her child.[14] Her retirement lasted until April 2004 when she announced that she would be making a comeback and working with men as well as women.[1] She signed with her former company, Vivid Video, and starred in eight films under their brand. Her first film scene with a male was with Nick Manning in the film Maneater.[15] After her contract with Vivid expired, Janine signed with Digital Playground and was featured in several films from that company.[16] In November 2005, Lindemulder announced on her official website’s forum that she was once again retiring from adult films[2] but in January 2006 she won two AVN Awards[17] and subsequently returned to the adult film industry. However, her fans did not like the style.<[2] Her latest film stars another well-known p0rn star, Jenna Jameson, in Janine Loves Jenna which debuted in April 2007.

    I wonder who will win custody of the child?

  152. Barbara says:

    In my defense from last night, I’m sick with flu and have been on a 48 hour Nyquil bender, then right after my last post my husband came downstairs in severe pain, had to rush him, an infant and a sleeping 6 yr old to the ER.
    We think its a kidney stone, but the docs at RWJUH were a couple of mumbling douches, so not sure. He’s getting an appointment with a urologist.
    Anyway, blah blah feel sorry for me and him and I won’t wax philosophical ever again unless it involves real estate.

  153. Shore Guy says:

    One reason to have serious pause concerning the US Government taking a leading role in healthcare administration:

    I am involved with certain creative activities, which require copyright protections because of te nture of some of the people with whom one must deal. As of this past spring, the wait for getting a certificate of registration was about 90 days.

    Here is what the Copyright office now says:

    “Please note:

    We are experiencing unprecedented processing delays. If you registered online, it may take more than half a year to receive a certificate of registration. Some paper claims are taking up to 1½ years for our office to process… If you submitted your application less than 3 months ago, we will be unable to provide confirmation. ”

    The Register of Copyrights describes the mission of the Copyright office as:

    “To promote creativity by administering
    and sustaining an effective national copyright system.”

    I am sure she means it, and I am sure all of the employees at the Copyright Office are intent on doing good work; however, these timelines are absurd.

    Why shoud we believe that when the USG cannot effectively run its copyright operation, something it has been doing for over 200 years, that it will effectively deal with the mass of paperwork associated with healthcare claims?

  154. still_looking says:

    Barb, 163

    Can you get my email or phone from grim?

    [Only if you are open to suggestions, that is.]


  155. Shore Guy says:


    Let me get this straight. The man was married to a woman who made les-bi@n s-ex films? I wonder if he encouraged her to bring home work?

  156. Victorian says:

    Why shoud we believe that when the USG cannot effectively run its copyright operation, something it has been doing for over 200 years, that it will effectively deal with the mass of paperwork associated with healthcare claims?

    If the private insurance companies were doing this effectively and efficiently, we wouldn’t have the clusterfcuk we now have, would we?

    Following the same rationale, we should hand over defense to private enterprise also? Oh, strike that, we already have Blackwater(?) in Iraq.

  157. Shore Guy says:

    B.O.’s new Book: The Audacity to Tax.

  158. Victorian says:

    Also, a primary cause of all the paperwork in healthcare claims is because different insurance companies have different requirements and rules, and there is a large administrative staff in hospitals dedicated to processing this paperwork.
    There is also a large admin staff in the insurance companies to research and find every flimsy excuse to deny claims.

  159. skep-tic says:


    “Today I had a laugh when I saw the new income guidelines for the home buyer tax credit, up to $225,000 per couple.”

    where did you see this? I thought they were going to give it to everybody, no limit.

  160. relo says:

    162: I do wonder. The problem with sleeping w/ a pron star is that you wake up with one.

  161. Barbara says:

    165. Still looking, I’m opened, do I email grim? How does this work?

  162. yikes says:

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    October 26, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    I’m sure he has good ideas but that is a bunker, and the nompound is intended to be something more than a bunker. IMHO, a few well-placed shots over the heads of approaching hordes of hungry zombies will keep them distant. And there are far cheaper (and just as effective) perimeter defenses than stockade fences.

    i’d love to hear these. do you worry about eventually words spreads of the nompound and you have multiple groups getting together for an overthrow?

  163. skep-tic says:

    will gov’t employees (including congressmen) be on the public option?

  164. Barbara says:

    ok, still looking, I emailed grim

  165. Sean says:

    Latest T2 partners presentation on Housing. Nice updated Charts on Alt-A resets, Foreclosures etc.

    An Overview of the Housing and Economic Crisis
    – and Why There Is More Pain to Come


  166. Wag says:

    The IRS has announced that cost-of-living adjustments for pension plans and other retirement plans for tax year 2010 will remain unchanged. The maximum amount an employee can contribute to a 401(k) in 2010 will remain at $16,500 and for individuals over the age of 50, their catch-up contribution will remain unchanged at $5,500. Huzzah.

  167. renter says:


    “The credit would be extended from its current expiration date of Dec. 1 to all contracts entered into by April 30, and closed before July 1. It is expected that income limits on people claiming the credit would be increased to $125,000 for singles and $250,000 for couples, from the current $75,000 and $150,000, aides said. The credit phases out for people making more than those amounts.

  168. John says:

    that 225k income limit was in a bloomberg and newsday article today.

  169. 3b says:

    #178 And of course the realtors will push as buy now, because the credit will be definitely, absolutely, no really we mean it gone by July 1st. Of course only to be extended again.

  170. Victorian says:

    Stocks in U.S., Commodities Rally as GDP Signals `Waterloo of the Bears’

  171. make money says:

    Stocks in U.S., Commodities Rally as GDP Signals `Waterloo of the Bears’


    One can loose a lot of money being a bear these days. Even if you sit on the sideline with cash. You’re dollars are getting whacked with a super sharp samurai sort.

  172. meter says:

    “Anyone who served, can they help me out on this?”

    You might want to ask draft dodgers (and war profiteers) Bush and Cheney. I’m thinking they had lots of spare time to read about military protocol.

    Or in Bush’s case, have someone read it to him.

  173. d2b says:

    Someone needs to tell my customers that the recession is over. One day left in he most miserable month of the year.

    One of my customers told me today that business is bad. It’s been bad for a while and there are no signs of improvement on the horizon.

    My last call of the day the customer told me he hasn’t paid his rent and doesn’t know when he can.

    Hope and Change. Hope and Change.

  174. Sean says:

    NYC – A Stalled Vision: Big Development as City’s Future


  175. Qwerty says:

    RE: Latest T2 partners presentation on Housing.


    Sean, a horror show depicted on every single slide.

    However the real estate Kool Aid is so strong, that facts don’t matter.

    “We got a great deal, $25,000 off the asking price, and granite counters!”

    – 2009 Buyer, 2010 Bagholder

  176. Qwerty says:

    Meter @ 4:14 pm,

    Why does your calendar stop at January 2000? The prior 8 years would work for you as well.

    Also, use The Google to understand LOGCAP and its use during those same prior 8 years.

    Friends don’t let friends drink Kool Aid.

  177. 3b says:

    #186 We got a great deal, $25,000 off the asking price, and granite counters!”

    And 10k or more a year in property taxes, on a modest house!!!

  178. sas says:

    “Saudis don’t want oil price set in U.S. anymore”

    -Saudi Arabia on Wednesday decided to drop the widely used West Texas Intermediate oil contract as the benchmark for pricing its oil, dealing a serious blow to the New York Mercantile Exchange.

  179. Barbara says:

    ah, the allure of granite and its mysterious powers over people’s wallets. I got a guy down the street who will measure, assemble and install top of the line granite for 22 dollars a sq ft and he throws in an undermount SS sink.
    Cheaper than laminate at Lowes.

  180. John says:

    How does this help Bergen County and Long Island Home sales, everyone makes over 250K a year.

    “The credit would be extended from its current expiration date of Dec. 1 to all contracts entered into by April 30, and closed before July 1. It is expected that income limits on people claiming the credit would be increased to $125,000 for singles and $250,000 for couples, from the current $75,000 and $150,000, aides said. The credit phases out for people making more than those amounts.

  181. sas says:

    can u say NJ Municipality?

    “Back-Door Taxes Hit U.S. With Financing in the Dark”


  182. still_looking says:

    d2b 184

    just more anectdata…

    MIL’s friend stops over. Looks thin, stressed, tired.

    Husband started business for building in-home entertainment centers. Deep in red…. customers not paying bills, can’t make payments on his bills….

    She works and is looking to increase her hours to help the shortfall.

    No Problems here…. none at all… we are all juuuuuust fine.

    Yah. Right.


  183. still_looking says:


    will be looking for it… I am out of the house tonight from probably 530pm til 11pm… will write back though.


  184. sas says:

    granite counter tops? Rip those things out.

    unless of course you want your wee tots playing in radiation and radon gas.

    I’ve never used this kit, but it might be worthwhile:


  185. sas says:

    that route 52 causeway project stinks.

    something rotten in Denmark.


  186. Barbara says:

    I was unaware of this. I have some granite in my tenents apts but not in my home. Hmmm

  187. d2b says:

    I think that many more businesses are in trouble than people know about.

    Something interesting is that some AR departments are so overwhelmed these days that they can’t contact customers that owe them money. I have open invoices that need to be corrected and nobody is even calling me for payment. People are just worn out right now.

    Today I drove by a Chrysler dealer in the neighborhood where I grew up. The dealership was small but had a local following. Employed about 20 people before Chrysler kicked them to the curb in July. Now it’s empty. Probably a CVS or Walgreens in a year.

  188. Barbara says:

    CVS, Walgreens, Dunkin Donutz. Thats all we build in NJ

  189. zieba says:


    Even through you drive your Hummer on the left lane of a public road… you’re all right for posting those T2 slides.


  190. #199 – There are Walgreens in NJ? Honestly, I don’t think I’ve seen one in a while. CVS & DnD, yup, lots.

    We also consume mucho Ed Hardy.

  191. Shore Guy says:

    The good news about the end of the recession is that now B.O. can’t hide from the economy. Sure, it was in recession when you took office but now it is not, the next one has your name on it.

  192. schabadoo says:

    No fan of the One, I see this as a pathetic attempt at a photo op, given his past actions and statements.

    Yes, his multitude of past actions and statements. I see.

    This list I’d love to see.

  193. schabadoo says:

    It just comes across as contrived, coming from a president that never served, and refused to salute the flag before becoming president.

    Why do you say such obvious falsehoods?

    Geez, that’s Glen Beck territory.

  194. Schumpeter says:

    shore (67)-

    I think the whole thing was a photo op to soften up us saps (my new sas-sanctioned term for US citizens) for an announcement he’s about to make on Afghanistan that will end up pissing off everybody.

    I think we should get the f out of all these far-flung outposts. We can’t afford any of it, and all the people we’re trying to help hate our guts, anyway.

  195. Schumpeter says:


    Can you help me and my family with repudiation of American citizenship?

  196. Schumpeter says:

    d2b (131)-

    When I said this, I was about 3/4 an anarchist. I’ve been headed there my whole adult life. I don’t think any rational, clear-thinking person (Timmay and Bergabe excluded) would deny that we now have an economic problem that, at its core, is simply a case of assets diminishing rapidly in value whilst the debt accumulated in acquiring the assets remains. I meant “burn it down and start over” in a metaphorical sense.

    Now, however, I’m 100% in the anarchist camp, since I’m also now firmly convinced that this is where we’re all headed, anyway. We have entered Alice in Wonderland territory, where up is down and down is up. The only way left to restore sanity and common sense is to acknowledge the utter insolvency of everything: financial institutions, schools, gubmint, religion…write down the debts (either by ledger or by the digging of graves), purge the debt and start anew.

  197. Schumpeter says:

    The debt cannot be serviced. The debt cannot be retired. The debt is bigger than us all and can only be acknowledged and written down.

  198. Schumpeter says:

    plume (141)-

    If this is the case, how did Wells Fargo’s rollup of Wachovia pass muster? Nothing in the putrefying corpse of Wachovia should’ve attracted any institution’s interest…save tax write-offs on guaranteed massive losses for the next decade or so.

    “The IRS already does this with economic substance: if your merger, sale, reorg, etc. looked more like a tax-savings move than a decision made for business reasons, then you lose (which means one cannot consider saving on taxes as a legitimate business planning goal).”

  199. d2b says:

    Just a miserable day for me. Businesses going under and then I see the GDP number. Things are so disconnected that my customers are dizzy. They hear one thing and live another. This country is at war with small businesses. Big and little are represented in DC. This is what I’ve been seeing and small companies will continue to die without job creation.

  200. Schumpeter says:

    d2b (211)-

    We would all be better off if we could just come to the realization that the gubmint is our sworn, mortal enemy. They show up every day at your township offices, Trenton and in DC absolutely determined to consolidate and perpetuate their own power, incomes and benefits, and they will ruin you and me- with nary a tear shed- in order to achieve that end.

  201. Schumpeter says:

    Every day, they are working to ruin us. Every thought they have and action they take is honed to that end.

    What are we doing to defend ourselves? Hell, 3/4 of us think they’re our friend.

  202. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [206] schabadoo

    “Why do you say such obvious falsehoods”

    Oh, I don’t know. Something I saw on the internet maybe?


    “I’d love to see this, given his past actions and statements”

    Hmm, lets see, why would I think he thinks little of America and the military?

    -The Lapel Pin thing
    -The Pledge of Allegiance thing
    -The association thing (Van Jones, Bill Ayers, Jamillah Muhammad, Rosa Brooks, Marilyn Katz, his wife)
    -The Columbia article he authored
    -Pulling out of the missile defense for Eastern Europe
    -His rebuke of McChrystal
    -Today’s NYT story on a military bill heralded by NYT as an Obama “victory” in paring back military spending.

    Nope, can’t see where I would get that idea. Must be delusional.

    Now to vent (and this is where an effeminate elitist like yourself gets to claim victory in your Salonesque way):

    I have to hand it to you. You have finally managed to p.o. me off so much that I want to beat the living crap out of you. This will make it hard for me to focus on work tonight, which p.o.’s me further.

    There are a good many people that I consider a complete waste of carbon, and would better the world by going to live in a cave or on an island, or by playing russian roulette. Most I pity, avoid, ridicule, or ignore. But never hate. Until now.

    I suggest, for both of our benefits, you avoid anyplace I might be. Lord knows how unstable us raving conservatives are, and should providence ever smile upon me and put us in the same place at the same time, I would happily give in to my very basest instincts. After so many years of repressing them for the sake of civility, I think I owe it to myself to show at least some blatant disregard for the rights and feelings of others, and you will do nicely.

    Congratulations. In the etiquette of liberal snarkdom, the guy who threatens to rearrange the other guy’s face or pronounces his hatred loses. Your trophy is my perpetual emnity.

    By way of closing, and as we used to say in the ‘hood, vafancullo!

  203. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [208] schump,

    Yeah, hell its easy. But you need citizenship elsewhere first.

  204. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [211] shump

    First, they did the gov a favor by taking Wachovia.

    Second, IRS is trying to disallow some of the NOLs

  205. Schumpeter says:

    plume (214)-

    I think you misspelled “vafanculo”.

  206. Shore Guy says:


    It is especiaally good with a nice chianti and a spinach salad.

  207. Schumpeter says:

    HR 615 – Please forward to everyone you know

    Subject: HR 615

    On Tuesday, the Senate health committee voted 12-11 in favor of a two-page amendment, courtesy of Republican Tom Coburn which would require all Members of Congress and their staff members to enroll in any new government-run health plan.

    Congressman John Fleming has proposed an amendment that would require Congressmen and Senators to take the same health care plan that they would force on us. (Under proposed legislation they are exempt.)

    Congressman Fleming is encouraging people to go to his Website and sign his petition. The process is very simple. I have done just that at:


    Senator Coburn and Congressman Fleming are both physicians.

    Regardless of your political beliefs, it sure seems reasonable that Congress should have exactly the same medical coverage that they impose on the rest of us.
    Please urge as many people as you can to do the same!

  208. Outofstater says:

    #209 Exactly.

  209. Schumpeter says:

    shore (218)-

    I thought that was human livers.

  210. Shore Guy says:


    And your point is?

    As I recall, it was a popular dish at the idi Amin Diner on St. Georges Ave.

  211. Outofstater says:

    This depression will have lasting effects on both the twenty-something kids just starting out and their parents who have lost their jobs at 55 and have no hope of ever working again. The massive debt and ensuing tax increases will ensure a decreased standard of living for many. As the boomers grow older, their children and grandchildren will resent having to pay for their pensions and medical care, knowing full well they will never see benefits so rich. i do, however, believe that we will work something out, something well short of anarchy. Call me Pollyanna, but I still believe that the three most powerful words in American thought are “We, the people…”

  212. Shore Guy says:

    The people who are going to be the maddest will be the people who scrimped and saved ad deprived themselved of things to be debt free but who end up no better off than anyone else if a complete collapse occurs.

  213. Shore Guy says:

    Preparing for an excuse to bow out of Afghanistan?

    (From the Baltimore Sun):

    WASHINGTON– Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, visiting Pakistan on a fence-mending tour, turned unusually blunt on Thursday, accusing the government of failing to do all it could to track down Al Qaeda.Clinton told a group of journalists in Lahore that she found it “hard to believe that nobody in your government knows where they are and couldn’t get them if they really wanted to.” Al Qaeda, she said, “has had a safe haven in Pakistan since 2002.


  214. james says:

    “The Trilateral Commission is international and is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the politcal government of the United States. (With No Apologies, Senator Barry Goldwater, Berkely Brooks, NY page 293).

    Are you asking questions and searching for the truth? If you want to know who is in the trilateral commission leading to a world government do the research. The information is out there.

  215. james says:

    Hint: Corzine is one of them.

  216. james says:

    Excuse me, Corzine is actually part of the Bilderberg group.

  217. james says:

    Shore, you still have payback. The ability to get credit. When we see it going south I will be running up my credit cards to the max! All with the ability to pay it back of course but wont should things go bad. At this time I have stopped paying double on my mortgage payments. You must have debt in order to benefit from whats coming.

  218. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [217] schump

    So what? At this point, I am not trying to demonstrate erudition. I am looking to throw down.

  219. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [226] james

    I think you are assuming the mantle of Board Paranoiac. :-)

    And yes, there are black helicopters. I’ve seen them and Sas used to ride them.

  220. Sean says:

    Drive by in WANTAGE, N.J.

    Someone trying to bust a cap in Lou Dobbs.


  221. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [233] sean

    We haven’t seen the last of that, nor is it unprecedented.

    I predict that, before 2010 is out, a prominent person in the media or politics, that is known for being a lighting rod of opinion, will be killed. There is that much hate out there.

    But, given the locale and the fact that hunters are known to do that sort of thing, I can’t dismiss that either. Bill Cosby used to allow hunting on his spread in Mass. until someone put a slug into the side of his house. I don’t go in the woods during hunting season. Not anymore.

  222. james says:


    Its hard not to be paranoid when your president declares a national emergency for a “cold.” Especially when you know what the executive orders are for a president that refuses to salute the flag and is surrounded by radical communists. Or when active duty Marines state that they are training how to run checkpoints with local police and homeland security and microchip bracelets.

  223. Schumpeter says:

    shore (225)-

    Pathetic. I find it hard to believe that we don’t know where Bin Laden is and that we’ve never had the will to cross the border of a jerkwater nation that makes the 16th Century look progressive in order to hunt him down like the human rat he is.

    I have no doubt TPTB wants no part of catching him, because he and those close to him have something very embarrassing on them.

    I also sincerely doubt that more than maybe 1% of the adult population of the US realizes that we funded him, helped him build a base and considered him an ally in the late ’70s/early ’80s

  224. chicagofinance says:

    217.Schumpeter says:
    October 29, 2009 at 7:47 pm
    plume (214)-
    I think you misspelled “vafanculo”.

    I always used fa un culo

    Actually….isn’t this a Dick Cheney quote?

  225. meter says:

    Just curious where you conspiracy theorists were when Bush and cronies were trampling all over the Constitution on a nearly daily basis.

    Torture, the rewriting of the role and powers of the office of the Vice President, and on and on.

    I consider myself a fairly open-minded person even though like every one I have biases. I think Obama is a poor president. I don’t agree with much of what he’s doing, and I am more than pissed off at what Congress, the Fed, and Treasury are doing. The Democrats are awful.

    That said, I don’t think they are intentionally wrecking our country. They may be the end result, but I don’t ascribe it to bad motives. I ascribe it to misguided motives and a lack of big picture thinking.

    Conversely, I truly believe that Bush and Cheney intended to upend and divide this country by rewriting the rules, alienate the rest of the world, and worst of all, profit from it.

    It just puzzles me that this (perceived) outrage toward Obama has bubbled up over policies largely put in place by his predecessor. Obama didn’t invent these bailouts (though his adminstration has certainly expanded on them, making the situation much worse). You should have been marching on Paulson’s house with pitchforks 2 years ago.

    But I guess ideological blindness would have prevented that.

  226. Schumpeter says:

    chi (238)-

    The best thing I’ve ever seen from Peggy Noonan. She nailed it. Thanks.

  227. Schumpeter says:

    meter (239)-

    What are you smoking? I think several of us here (for sure, at least me and Shore) despised Bush, Cheney and the rest of their fascist pals…and didn’t keep it a secret.

    To me, the most disappointing thing about O is that he’s no more than Bush in blackface. He complains constantly about what he’s “inherited” from that Administration, yet he’s kept intact the key idiots (Timmay, Bergabe) and the key policies (QE, Beggar thy Neighbor).

  228. james says:

    Chicago excellent article.

    Meter, most of us were asleep. The water wasnt hot enough yet. The velocity of Obama’s agenda woke many people up. They actually read the bills they are proposing and were horrified by it. The 2 party system is one in the same. Both have been incredibly destructive to the country.

    Obamas mistake was increasing the tempo of his change. Ramming it down the peoples throats. If he had incrementally done it most Americans would still be asleep just like they were during Bush’s tyranny.

  229. Schumpeter says:

    I think I called for Paulson to be arrested for treason, tried and executed on television.

    Is that not strident enough for you, meter?

  230. meter says:


    Yes, strident enough. :)

    Wish there were more of you. Wish the people who are angry/incensed now were back then. I was with you then and am with you now. It just puts me on the defensive when idealogues take advantage of a situation to score political points for their ‘team’ (looking at Nom here).

  231. meter says:

    “To me, the most disappointing thing about O is that he’s no more than Bush in blackface. He complains constantly about what he’s “inherited” from that Administration, yet he’s kept intact the key idiots (Timmay, Bergabe) and the key policies (QE, Beggar thy Neighbor).”

    Absolutely agree. I have to admit, the whole “hope and change” mantra sucked me in.

  232. Sean says:

    re #238 – Our dear leaders the Dems are just giddy right now, power does that too you, there are not about to let anyone take the punch bowl away. Why should things change now after 30 years of enormous deficit spending?

  233. sas says:

    u want change..

    go vote and get Corzine the heck out of office.


  234. sas says:

    “Princeton University announces 43 layoffs in budget cutting plan”


  235. sas says:

    yikes, its almost midnight and I’ve been up since 5am.

    well, tomorrow is our favorite BFF Friday.

    consolidate the financial institutions down to a few, and give those few unlimited bailouts.


  236. Shore Guy says:


    If you believe I hold the last administration in anything other than utter contempt, you really were not paying attention the past several years. Because of my concerns over the dangerousness of the Bush/Cheney cabal, I took actions that placed me in professional harm; I doubt that many people on this board have had White House officials making calls trying to rip their legs out from under them.

    I have always held “my guys” to the same standards as “the other guys,” that way I get to be outraged when outrage is due, and, right now, outrage is due. Obama’s administration has us so deep in the hole it might be easier to keep digging rather than to try to climb out.

  237. NJGator says:

    Apologies if this has been posted already…

    East Brunswick finance officer explains pension system/problem

    The man who knows all that’s fiscally wrong with New Jersey is L. Mason Neely, an authority on the state’s public pension system/problem.

    He’s the guy I turn to when I’m looking for answers,” said Jon Moran, the senior legislative analyst for the League of Municipalities.

    Neely has been the finance officer for East Brunswick for 34 years. In that time, he has seen the increase in public services, and salaries and benefits for public employees, as well as the pension system/problem that he says has “grown exponentially.”

    Neely works in a small office in the East Brunswick Municipal Complex. The wall next to his desk is papered with family photos on one side, sticky notes on the other. There is a clear line of demarcation on the wall, separating his personal and professional life. One outer office is filled with manila folders, with everything in its place. Neely knows what and where everything is.

    His explanation of the pension system/problem is also systematic and pedestrian. He walks you through it like a tour guide, telling more than you want to know, especially if you’re a New Jersey taxpayer. Because according to Neely, the pension system/problem is flat-out bankrupting the state and its municipalities. And it will only get worse.

    The only solution?

    A tax revolt,” he says. “I’m serious.”

    There is no doubt about Neely’s seriousness. He wears a handlebar mustache, waxed to sharp points. He’s straight up in posture and direct in his delivery of data. And the numbers he offers with chart after chart are very serious. As in terminal.

    First, the scariest number.

    There are about 406,000 state and municipal employees in New Jersey, including local police, firemen and teachers. In the last governor’s race, about 2.1 million people voted. So any candidate who seriously attacks public employee pay, benefits and pensions could find themselves in a 20 percent hole — and that doesn’t include family members of government employees.

    That is the political reality. No candidate can run an “us” (the taxpayer) versus “them” (public employees)” campaign because there are just too many of them.

    Worse, because of their numbers, there have been layers and layers of favorable legislation over the years, like too much sweet icing on the cake.

    “The problem is underneath the gold dome down there (Trenton),” Neely said. “The state mandates many of the things that are hurting the towns.”

    Neely cites the case of local police. They can retire, with pension, after 20 years. After 25 years, they receive 65 percent pay. So an officer who joins a force at 25, and retires at 50 while making $100,000 a year, will draw $65,000 for the rest of his life. Or more.

    “It’s one thing to give them 65 percent of their pay,” Neely said. “But factored into this, though state mandates, is 65 percent of their holiday pay, 65 percent of their sick pay, and 65 percent of their uniform pay. Why are we paying for retired people’s holidays? Or for uniforms, when they don’t wear uniforms anymore?”

    The second scariest number is what is called the “unfunded accrued liability” of the pension system. This is money owed by the state to the Police and Fire Retirement System (PFRS), the Teachers Pensions and Annuity Fund (TPAF) and Public Employees Retirement System (PERS). The number? $26.4 billion. Billion, with a b.

    “The state went seven years without paying in anything, and it’s been 12 years since they’ve made all annual payments,” Neely said. “This is like not making your mortgage payments. The interest is compounding.”

    The “pension payment holiday,” as it was called, began under the Christie Whitman administration and continued through the Jim McGreevey years.

    “These were budget gimmicks, and the line was, ‘We’ll make it up with investments,” Neely said. “Well, guess what? We didn’t make it up with investments. So how does it get paid? With higher property taxes.”

    Add to that exploding cost of lifetime health benefits, and the coming cost of death benefits, and suddenly that $24 billion could easily grow by 50 percent.

    The municipal complex where Neely works is only a few years old. There are reading benches under shade trees, and a spray fountain in the pond behind the municipal building. The library has a Barnes & Noble style cafe, although the space is leased. There is a standalone senior center. This is government residents can afford, Neely says.

    The government we can’t afford comes down to taxpayers essentially paying for every public employee three times. Once, while they are working. Twice, while they are retired. And a third time for the “unfunded accrued liability.”

    And the great irony, of course, is that many retirees go to Florida, or Delaware, or some other state to spend their golden years and state pension money. You know, some other state where property taxes aren’t so high.


  238. Shore Guy says:

    “and are not bright enough, or serious enough, to imagine that they can damage that, hurt it, even fatally”

    There are far too many people who believe that because this nation has been great for so long that it is our due and we always will be. I am sure the Danes and French felt the same way in different eras. We achieved and maintained greatness by behaving greatly — maintaining a strong economy, which provided the resources to maintain a strong military.

    Aside from military adventures, we have largely stopped acting in great ways. Bush was a putz who spoke of sacrafice but knew nothing of it. When our family sits down to Thanksgiving (like at weddings, anniversaries, births, Christmas, yadda, yadda) the pale of the combat loss of one dear will hang over the event — spoken or unspoken the absence of one killed in combat ALWAYS remains even 40-odd years later.

  239. Shore Guy says:

    pall, too

  240. Barbara says:

    Meh, Peggys playing the victim card for her friends. Sorry, it got called “Big Pharma” because they bought a sizable portion of influence in the bug-a-boo gubbmint to become as profitable as possible at the expense of sick Americans.
    No innocents in this. The article has a tone that I would describe as manipulative, less than sincere.

  241. DL says:

    Re 238 and Ms Noonan: She is spot on when she says my generation and the ones after (post-1950) “grew up in an America surrounded by phrases—”strongest nation in the world,” “indispensable nation,” “unipolar power,” “highest standard of living”—and are not bright enough, or serious enough, to imagine that they can damage that.” The biggest shock we experienced on our two week trip back to NJ/PA is the realization that we have turned our towns into ghettos at the expense of the burbs and the burbs ain’t all that great. We just haven’t noticed it yet because most of us don’t get out beyond our borders. Sarajevo after the war looked no worse than Camden. Sarajevo’s been fixed.

  242. meter says:


    I had the same taste in my mouth after reading her diatribe.

    In some ways I agree, in others, not so much.

    What America is lacking most of all is cooperation. This flagrant greed, this ‘us vs them’ mentality, more than anything, will be our downfall.

    In the 90s, big businesses started attacking employee bases with offshoring, the cutting of benefits, and a ratio of management to employee salary that was historically astronomical (and has only gotten worse since). On the flip side, it decided that gouging customers and maximizing profits to the detriment of all else was a sound long-term business strategy.

    America in its heydey wasn’t like this. There is nothing wrong with making profit – it was when it was decided that ‘all else be damned, we must all squeeze every last dime from one another’ that things started to unravel.

  243. schabadoo says:

    Oh, I don’t know. Something I saw on the internet maybe?


    Oh yeah, that’s him clearly refusing to ever salute the flag.

    (The flag’s behind him, you know that?)

    Good to see you back in reactionary mode. Your list is fabulous. Cutting defense spending? Obviously he’s an anti-war commie.

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