We’re all tourguides now

Didn’t we talk about this the other day?

From the New York Times:

Agent or No Agent?

Are real estate brokers — like travel agents and other middlemen coping with the increasingly digital culture — in danger of becoming expensive anachronisms?

After all, it is only logical that as people feel more empowered based on their access to information and their ability to connect without help, they are at least questioning the wisdom of the conventional way of buying and selling a home.

According to the National Association of Realtors, the percentage of homes sold nationally by their owners has actually declined, from 14 percent in 2004 to 11 percent in 2009. But Real Trends, a company that monitors the residential brokerage industry, considers those findings to be low, and estimates that the number of for-sale-by-owner, or FSBO, homes was almost one in five three years ago, when it stopped tracking them.

“I’ve been in this business for 33 years and I’ve always wondered why more people didn’t say, ‘I’m going to take a shot at this myself,’ ” said Steve Murray, the editor of Real Trends’ reports. “Now, with the technology available, that would seem to be inevitable. We tracked FSBO numbers through 2006 — before the market collapsed — and we were already seeing substantial differences between the attitudes and habits of people under 35 and those over 50.”

Younger people, he said, are far more likely to embrace the multitasking and risk taking involved in selling their own homes. If the decision to use an agent is becoming generational as well as situational, that would not augur well for real estate agents.

“This is going to sound bad, but I just don’t give a lot of credence to what brokers do,” said Cynthia LeStar, who is selling her studio apartment on the Upper East Side. “I mean, what do they do that I can’t do on my own?”

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321 Responses to We’re all tourguides now

  1. grim says:

    BFF! From the FDIC:

    Bank Closing Information – December 18, 2009

    First Federal Bank of California, Santa Monica, CA
    Imperial Capital Bank, La Jolla, CA
    Independent Bankers Bank, Springfield, IL
    New South Federal Savings Bank, Irondale, AL
    Citizens State Bank, New Baltimore, MI
    Peoples First Community Bank, Panama City, FL
    RockBridge Commercial Bank, Atlanta, GA

  2. sas says:

    “BFF! From the FDIC”



  3. grim says:

    FDIC Deposit Insurance Fund takes a massive hit tonight.

    First Federal Bank of California, Santa Monica, CA – $146.3 million
    Imperial Capital Bank, La Jolla, CA – $619.2 million
    Independent Bankers Bank, Springfield, IL – $68.4 million
    New South Federal Savings Bank, Irondale, AL – $212.3 million
    Citizens State Bank, New Baltimore, MI – $76.6 million
    Peoples First Community Bank, Panama City, FL – $556.7 million
    RockBridge Commercial Bank, Atlanta, GA – $124.2 million

    Total: $1.8 billion loss

  4. sas says:

    “FDIC Deposit Insurance Fund takes a massive hit tonight.”

    thats ok, we can print more money, and drop more bombs.
    just as long as the NFL ball game is on Sun and the 20% off sale is at Old Navy.
    who cares?


  5. grim says:

    Toys R Us was packed at 10:30 this evening. All is well.

  6. sas says:

    keeping with the topic of the thread:

    ““I’ve been in this business for 33 years and I’ve always wondered why more people didn’t say, ‘I’m going to take a shot at this myself,’ ” said Steve Murray, the editor of Real Trends’ reports”

    I can answer that, because most people don’t sell 500k-1e6 ;dollar houses for a living. Bash an RE agent all you want, but there are some out there whom have the art of the deal down pat, and are very advantageous.

    you have some knucklehead FSBO, most caes, its not a good idea.


  7. cobbler says:

    re. Knob Creek

    Whisky hangover ‘worse than vodka, a study suggests’

    Drinking whisky will result in a worse hangover than vodka, according to research by US scientists.
    The reason might lie in the number of molecules called “congeners” which it contains compared to vodka, the Brown University team said.
    But the study also suggested that sticking to vodka all night rather than whisky would not improve your performance at work the next day.
    The study is published in Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research.

    The 95 volunteers for the research, all healthy alcohol users, had one night of “acclimatisation” before drinking either whisky or vodka the following night.
    They were given enough alcohol to put them a third over the legal driving limit for the UK.
    On the third night they were given a “placebo” drink containing no alcohol.
    On each occasion, they were then asked how they felt the following day, and were tested on how well they could concentrate on tasks.
    The volunteers who drank whisky reported far more hangover symptoms such as headache nausea, thirst and fatigue compared with those who drank vodka.
    However, the overall performance at the concentration task was roughly the same between the two groups.
    Professor Damaris Rohsenow, who led the research at Brown University in Rhode Island, said: “While people felt worse, they didn’t perform worse after bourbon (a type of whisky made in the US) than after vodka.”

  8. Sgore gonna be cold on those bikes Guy says:

    This sounds like somethong from Monty Python.

    Maybe Full Monte Python:


  9. sas says:

    “Toys R Us was packed at 10:30 this evening.”

    great, so more parents are giving their kids lead & toxic waste from China. Merry Xas junior, here is some neuro toxins & carcinogens for you. Mommy loves you.

    some may not know, China gets rid of much of its industrial waste by putting into the product. Its oldest trick in book.

    no inspections, or the overworked inspector in on the take.
    100k/year to look the other way.


  10. Essex says:

    I have spent a good bit of time on large transaction sales…some in excess of $100M plus….and I don’t want to dicker with the morons who come to see “my home”…leave that to someone without the emotional attachment…and price accordingly.

  11. Shore gonna be cold on those bikes Guy says:

    Bikers in the buff to protest NY bike lane removal
    December 18, 2009 23:05 PM

    NEW YORK – Bicyclists planning a Saturday protest ride are calling it their “”Freedom Ride” … free of clothing, that is. And they may be pedaling n@ked in a fierce snowstorm, if the forecast holds.

    The removal of clothing is meant as a protest over the removal of a bike lane in Williamsburg, an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn. The activists want to go t0ple$$ in front of Hasidic residents who “”can’t handle scantily clad women” on wheels, bike messenger Heather Loop told a local newspaper earlier this week. The newspaper, The Brooklyn Paper, suggested the scantily clad protesters might roll into the neighborhood at sundown Saturday … just as families leave synagogue services on the Sabbath

  12. sas says:

    i have a little suggestion if someone is looking for good toys for your little tike:

    I like the school house naturals. I got the wee toddler grandkids blocks. I always enjoyed blocks. Builds imagination & creativity. Rather than some stupid widgit from China.


  13. Shore Guy says:

    And I thought a buke seat was uncomfortable in the warm weather.

  14. Shore Guy says:

    bike, even

  15. yikes says:

    get well soon, Cindy!

  16. sas says:

    well, I”m off to bed.

    This change in the barometer really hurts my shoulders.
    I ain’t ony any meds, and never will take that garbage.

    However, a lifetime of being activity has taken its toll on the joints and the rotator cuffs.

    especially when the barometer changes. man, Arizona here I come….


  17. sas says:

    “I ain’t ony any meds, and never will take that garbage.”

    i mean. I don’t take any type of meds, and never will.

    when its my time to circle the drain, so be it. I’ve lived a good life.

    night blokes,

  18. Shore Guy says:


    You are ill?

  19. chicagofinance says:

    205.Schumpeter says:
    December 18, 2009 at 5:51 pm
    Almost a gallon of Knob Creek and plenty of EPL on the telly this weekend. Bring on the snow!

    I am going to be snowed in, and all I have is Glenlivit 15…stuff gives me a sinus headache…..

  20. DoughBoy says:

    Ok, maybe I don’t understand. When that ARMs reset… wont they reset lower given the fact that rates are lower than they were when originally set?

  21. Cindy says:

    Thanks Yikes. Shore @ 19 “You are ill?”
    I was in the hospital for three days with pneumonia. Home now. More antibiotics, water and rest. I have never moved this slowly in my life.

  22. Cindy says:


    U.S. bank reformers look back to the future. – FT

    I had to Google the title to actually read the article. Anyway, John McCain has introduced a bill to reinstate Glass- Steagall.

  23. Cindy says:


    I don’t know if anyone posted this earlier in the week but I just love this guy.

    “Paul Volcker Picks Up a Bat”
    Baseline Scenario

  24. Pat says:

    Cindy, hope you’re feeling better for Santa.

    Wish you were here, having some coffee with me this morning by my back windows.

    A long line of black-green firs has just the right amount of whipped cream snow. The cats haven’t yet sliced through the icing on top of the fence. Everything is quiet except for my husband stirring the bowl of pancake mix out in the kitchen.

  25. Pat says:

    And regarding the rise of the monsterbank.

    There has been a benefit – one that Volcker, in his beneficial and humanistic caring – will not be able to value.

    Humans again show that they can rise above their own technological creations. Picture the defeat of the Terminator.

    How many of you have mastered concepts completely opaque just a few years ago?

  26. Schumpeter says:

    Barack Obama’s top 10 sources of donations:

    University of California $1,591,395
    Goldman Sachs $994,795
    Harvard University $854,747
    Microsoft Corp $833,617
    Google Inc $803,436
    Citigroup Inc $701,290
    JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132
    Time Warner $590,084
    Sidley Austin LLP $588,598
    Stanford University $586,557

    O is owned by the banks. Congress is also owned by banks (and don’t forget pharma & insurance).

    Nothing of substance will be done on any major issue. The paymasters will rattle their lackeys’ chains every time they veer near making a major change.

    Look at healthcare. Did I call it, or what? We are now left with a bill that is complex, convoluted, and so cut-and-pasted that it makes no sense. It does, however, provide insurance with 30 mm new customers (by compulsion) and raise premiums enough to hasten the destruction of the middle class.

    The gubmint- backed by corporate Amerika- is our enemy. Treating them as though they are our advocates leads to failure every time.

  27. Schumpeter says:

    As a self-employed person and small business owner, I can expect the (compulsory) health insurance premium for my family of four to go to about 15K/year.

    I now pay close to 10K for a complete POS HMO. I cannot really afford that.

    Perhaps this will be the thing that convinces the rest of my family that it’s time to get the hell out of this country.

  28. Schumpeter says:

    Then again, my wife is up for a full-time teaching position next year, so maybe the Soviet State of NJ will pick up my insurance tab.

    Is having at least one family member suckling at the gubmint teat the only way to live here?

  29. Cindy says:

    Pat @ 26 – Sounds like a little slice of heaven. I don’t do well in the cold though. It drove me out of Oregon and back to CA.

    But I would love to sit around with a cup of coffee and BS with you all morning.

  30. Cindy says:

    Clot @ 30

    Many on my staff have self-employed spouses. I’m sure it has made a huge difference for their families.

  31. Schumpeter says:

    Cindy (32)-

    I don’t necessarily see it as a positive. It feels more like a warm shot of pure China white to a junkie.

    I don’t look forward to becoming even a little addicted to NJ gubmint.

  32. lostinny says:

    Cindy you should be resting in bed. I hope you’re well soon.

  33. lostinny says:

    If you’re interested in moving back to the south, my friend is selling that business I told you about.

  34. Outofstater says:

    South Plainfield school board gives principals and others 10% raises over three years, even though state aid is being cut. Why?


  35. Outofstater says:

    Cindy – Take it easy and don’t be superwoman! I hear it takes a few weeks to feel completely back to normal.

  36. Veto That says:

    toys r us was prob jamming last night because everyone knew they would be snowed in sat and sun.

    but on monday it will be presented in the media as the biggest holiday sales fri in a decade and the S&P will rally some more.

  37. Outofstater says:

    Pat – That snow sounds so pleasant and peaceful. I am totally envious of the blizzard you guys are going to get.

  38. Cindy says:

    Lost @ 34 Outofstater @37

    I just come sit at the computer for a bit. I can’t go outdoors so this is about it for entertainment for the holidays. I am resting. I just wake up so early so I nap a lot.

    I am sure this will take weeks to get over. You feel as weak as a lamb. I move at half of the speed I did before all the while saying “You have all the time in the world.”

  39. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Re: FSBO

    I bought my first house as a FSBO. The seller had it priced way too low.

    I was the first to see it and I gave him a deposit on the spot. He took the home off the market for the $100 I had in my pocket and a receipt written on notebook paper.

    We had been looking at similar homes in the area, and they were all priced at least $40K higher. This is where RE agents who know the market can really help a seller. And this is where a buyer can make a head-start on a nice financial cushion. Remember this was back when $40K was a substantial sum of money.

    We had been living in a condo and were able to price it such that it sold quickly, giving us enough profit to put 20% down.

    The Sale went thru Atty Review based on a Standard RE Contract and closed 8 weeks later. No Problem.

  40. sas says:


    “FDIC Deposit Insurance Fund takes a massive hit tonight”

    where do you get the cost per bank from data set from?
    i am wondering what the total year to date cost for 2009.

    can you post the link?


  41. lisoosh says:

    My daughters piano recital was cancelled this morning because (in the words of her teacher) “the parents don’t want to brave the snow”.

    We have a grand total of 2 mm on the ground.


  42. confused in NJ says:

    36.Outofstater says:
    December 19, 2009 at 8:52 am
    South Plainfield school board gives principals and others 10% raises over three years, even though state aid is being cut. Why?

    It’s For The Children, they say.

  43. Cindy says:


    Some quotes from folks about banker’s behavior.

  44. Pat Loves Blizzards says:

    Does anybody else remember the snow the week of Dec 95 – Jan 1, 96?

    We were doing an acquisition, and two of us planned to work on New Year’s Day.

    The morning it snowed, I decided to go for a walk down Route 541. The snow was only drifting to three inches above my knees at that point. It was a maybe a couple of miles to the 7-11.

    The road was so peaceful, with no sound through the snow. Nobody.

    Then, a National Guard guy (maybe from out of Fort Dix) roared up in a frontloader and scared the cr@p out of me.


    No, idiot, I’d probably save your @ss on a mountain, though…cute guy.

    “Naw, just going to the 7-11 to buy some gum, but thanks!”

    The entire next week, the plowed snowbanks were at least 20 feet high in spots.

  45. leftwing says:

    From the South Plainfield School article:

    “We were looking for something that was not outlandish but commensurate with our responsibilities and position.”

    When did we move to this model of pay on title and responsibilities? Who cares? Bottom line is what can you produce, what can you do that is of value? If so you should be paid commensurate with that value, if not, why are you even employed?

    “Many times, a principal is equated to a CEO of a major corporation, and we just wanted something reasonable with what we were doing, and the board recognized that.”

    Yeah, uh, OK. Now we’re really in a dream world. Guess they’re angling for a big options package on the State of NJ. Take it.

  46. yikes says:

    here’s what i dont get about the damn recession:

    Last Saturday went out to Longwood Gardens in PA to look at the lights.
    On the way back decided we’d call a few restaurants to grab dinner. NOTHING open at the top 5-6 restaurants on the drive hope.

    frustrated, we grabbed Burger King.

    Two weeks ago, we had a craving for the Melting Pot. hadn’t been there in three years. called up on Friday around 3 pm … the ONLY reservation we could get was at 530 pm. WTF?

    And then the kicker, last night, PF Chang’s … get a reservation for 830. show up and the place is PACKED. we dont get seated for 25 minutes. I complained of course and we got a free app and free dessert.

    what the heck is going on? i didnt think people had money?

    * while in NYC we never did chains. sadly, out here in Bucks PA, we find ourselves at chains more often than we’d like.

  47. leftwing says:

    Everyone’s favorite Madison whipping boy finally went under contract (MLS 2688972, 3 Hillcrest).

    OLP $1,100k, last LP $699k.

    Must have been the razor sharp analysis of the realtor. From MLS: “Approx. $150,000 dollars below appraised value! Instant Equity at closing!! “.

    Forget that her math is wrong, can someone explain to me how buying beneath appraised and at market creates instant equity?

    Real estate agents, teachers, and bankers. I’m one of the above and I cringe when people like these publicly paint targets on the backs of the rest of us with their idiocy and destructive practices.

    My sympathies to all the good teachers out there for being represented in the news today by the chimpanzees in S. Plainfield.

  48. Pat says:

    left, I like the descriptions in which the agent clearly states, “This property is probably not of interest to the investor, since rent flow will be so much lower than mortgage plus taxes. This home is for the discriminating townhouse owner.”

  49. lisoosh says:

    So where is my 12 inches of snow?

  50. tbiggs says:

    #17 sas –

    “This change in the barometer really hurts my shoulders.
    I ain’t on any meds, and never will take that garbage.

    However, a lifetime of being activity has taken its toll on the joints and the rotator cuffs.”

    Do yourself a favor and try the “Trigger Point Therapy Workbook”. (http://www.triggerpointbook.com/ – the book was $14 at Amazon last time I looked)

    You won’t cure every ache and pain with it, but you will be surprised at how many things you will cure. I thought I had Carpal Tunnel and was really hating the idea of getting surgery. I did the suggested therapy for three days and it went away completely. Since then my wife and I have fixed quite a few other problems for which a doctor would have prescribed painkillers.

    #50 yikes –

    “while in NYC we never did chains. sadly, out here in Bucks PA, we find ourselves at chains more often than we’d like.”

    Pineville Tavern – too crowded now on weekends but try it midweek.

    Charcoal Steaks ‘n Things in Yardley, overlooking the river. Not just steaks; it’s fairly gourmet food without the overpriced ambience. No liquor license.

  51. lostinny says:

    48 Pat

    I remember that week because it shut down NYC. I was hanging out the window drinking margaritas. Nothing better then watching people skiing up First Avenue.

  52. lisoosh says:

    Pat.lost –

    It might interest you to know that the winter of 95-96 snowstorm made the news abroad.

    Of course, since I’ve moved here I can only remember one year with really good snows.

  53. meter says:

    “Is having at least one family member suckling at the gubmint teat the only way to live here?”

    That’s going to be my approach. Otherwise, I draw the same conclusions as you.

  54. lostinny says:

    56 Lisoosh

    I didn’t know the storm made headlines anywhere other then the US. I remember Rudy Crew was the NYC schools chancellor at the time. He served somewhere in the Midwest previously. He did not want to shut the NYC schools saying something along the lines of us being wusses because where he’s from, 2 feet of snow is nothing. Well, welcome to NYC Rudy. Land of the rich, home of the wuss.

  55. lostinny says:

    Re: Gov’t teat sucking

    Perhaps I should encourage DH to apply for some police positions in NJ. At least he’ll have a gun with no problems. And with all the money he’ll make, I can quit the NYC school system and work at my home based business without all the stress. Hmmm…

  56. leftwing says:

    Winter 95-96.

    I remember the skiers on the avenues. Thanks for bringing that one back with a smile.

    Also, Hoboken. With the parking situation the cars never moved off the street and DPW just plowed all the snow over them to create one passable lane on Washington. They were literally buried under feet of snow for days. They blended in and created high snowbanks, not even antennae poking out.

  57. NJCoast says:

    Fell better Cindy.

  58. NJCoast says:


    Feel better Cindy!

  59. gary says:

    To the realtor who told me a “certain” town expects “certain” types of people:

    “This is going to sound bad, but I just don’t give a lot of credence to what brokers do,” said Cynthia LeStar, who is selling her studio apartment on the Upper East Side. “I mean, what do they do that I can’t do on my own?”

    Any questions?

  60. NJCoast says:

    Winter of ’95-’96.

    Early Dec.I had just gotten the footings in for the house I was building. Thought we had till Feb when the ground usually freezes at the shore. Didn’t see those footings again until we escavated them after the APRIL snow storm. I try to block that winter out from my memory.

  61. d2b says:

    First apartment was in 1995 in Philadelphia. We had a blizzard and I met my friends at the bar at 12:30PM to watch the football games. Stayed in that bar until 1AM, eating lunch and dinner there.

    Bars in Manayunk get packed during snowstorms because nobody can get out with all of the hills. Good times.

  62. d2b says:

    I remember that days when there were no hangovers….

  63. safeashouses says:

    #30 Schumpeter

    Is having at least one family member suckling at the gubmint teat the only way to live here?

    I’m starting to think yes.

  64. Terc says:

    I’m thinking of selling my place by myself. I figure I can knock the broker’s commission off the price and sell it sooner, but I’m hesitant because I figure there’s a lot that a broker does that the seller never sees. I have a friend who sold her place this past summer with no broker so I’m gonna talk to her. Does anyone here have any opinions on this?

  65. Veto That says:

    “41 – Recession?? Just check the prices.”

    Frank. Here we go again…

    I dont have time to check all your UC listings but i did check the very first one on the list and here is what a disaster it shows:

    501-515 Adams St, Apt 3J
    Hoboken, NJ
    Sold Sept 2006 for $625k
    Under Contract today at $430K

    Thats a $200K loss (32%) in three years. Hoboken is officially a disaster area. They should lower the sales tax rate and make it a uez.

  66. Barbara says:

    30. Shump
    Is having at least one family member suckling at the gubmint teat the only way to live here?

    YES. I’ve been saying it for years. If you’re a lifer like me, then when you take stock of friends, family, aquaintences you will find that one spouse is a govt employee of some form. Politically, its all tied up. No chance of any change simply because it isnt in NJians self interest.

  67. yikes says:

    BC – good stuff here.


    playing devil’s advocate:

    1) “Hopefully, there’s enough inflation to wipe the debt away.”

    How will we know if there’s enough inflation? Can TPTB tinker like they’ve been doing this year to make sure there’s enough inflation?

    Put yourself in their shoes – if you were relying on inflation to “wipe the debt away” how would you rig it?

    2) “What happens when their is a sniff of rates rising? The fed controls the short end, the market the long end. The long end got hit with a jolt this past week. If this continues, do institutions hold a losing position or double down?”

    Who are the “institutions?”

    I mostly agree with you – the system is F’d beyond belief, greed F’d everything up, and at some point, everyone will suffer.

    but in the back of your mind, don’t you have a scenario where “if xxxx, then maybe xxx …” ?

  68. yikes says:

    Veto That says:
    December 19, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    “41 – Recession?? Just check the prices.”

    Frank. Here we go again…

    Frank is the 2nd most clueless poster here. nobody believes anything he says. He has a lower IQ than your Christmas tree.

    Your coffee pot could hatch a better argument for Hoboken.

    in fact, rumor has it frank got arrested this week.


  69. Veto That says:

    501 9th st, hoboken
    sold in Oct 2005 for $525K
    under contract now for $450k
    14% loss

    506 Observer Hwy
    sold in jan 2006 for $980k
    under contract now for $850k
    13% loss

  70. Shore Guy says:

    I’m dreaming, of a white Christmas. With every snowplow that I see.

  71. gary says:

    BTW, got an email with some listings during the week. The realtor said I should consider buying before the spring as to get a jump on everyone else and because prices are going to go up considerably due to the economic recovery and low interest rates. What response shall I give to said realtor? Extra points for those who come up with a really good response.

  72. Barbara says:

    “Dear realtor, like property taxes in NJ, I think higher interest rates will be something else I can brag about at BBQs over the summer. Sure, I’ll pretend I’m bitching, but I just want everyone to know what I can afford. A low interest rate might make people think I need to be on a budget and that my lux car is leased, not owned (it is leased). I hope you understand and see YOU at 7.5%!.”

  73. ruggles says:

    76 – Dear realtor.

    F you, you F’n c word.

    Love Gary.

  74. lisoosh says:


    “Gov.-elect Christie will borrow more than $1 billion to pay for highway improvements and public transit projects, agreeing today to expand a scheduled bond deal by six times over.

    The move comes after Christie said he would review all planned borrowing by the state, which owes nearly $34 billion and counting. ”

    ‘Prior to the election, Christie called borrowing money to replenish the Transportation Trust Fund “unconscionable” saying it undercuts the fund’s purpose: providing a stable, long-term financial resource for large-scale transportation projects without adding to the state’s debt.

    Christie said he opposed repeating what Corzine did in 2006: borrowing more than $6 billion and extending the trust fund for five years.”

  75. lisoosh says:

    Gary –
    Dear Realtor – take me off your mailing list.

  76. Essex says:

    71. It is a balancing act, most gubmint work is not lucrative enough to provide a full living wage for a household. Therefore you also need a high flyer in the mix to survive….Hello Depression 2.0

  77. NJCoast says:

    Terc #69-

    We sold FSBO in 2004. Easy peasy. Anybody could have sold their house then. The only risk was not pricing high enough. We had the highest sale price in our town for that year. No advertising- just told our neighbors and they came knocking. The buyers couldn’t have been nicer. We even lived in our house rent free for a month after the closing so we could move at our leisure.

    Today is much different. Lots of negotiating needed. Lots of research to know all the comps in your area. Pricing needs to be constantly adjusted as short sales and forclosures happen nearby.

    Be prepared for people to pick apart every little thing that is not total perfection in your home. There will be no offers to feed the squirrels.

    If you have a perfect house, great location, can hold a mortgage for the buyers who can’t get financing, good negotiating skills,and are willing to price your house 5% under the comps, go for it.

  78. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    NJCoast –

    I was going to respond to Terc69, but I see you have covered it.

    I will now only second your statement about knowing what the Closed Comps are selling for. Price it right and it will move.

    Terc69 should consider where he’s going to advertise his home. Is Craigslist enough exposure ?? Does ForSaleByOwner.com have enough page views.

    What price range is Terc69 (I’m kinda liking that handle ) going to market his home to ??
    Where will buyers in that price range be looking for homes ??

    Sometimes it’s worth paying for MLS Exposure.

  79. Schumpeter says:

    gary (76)-

    Tell her you are going to track her down, gouge out her kidneys, roast them and eat them in front of her as she croaks.

  80. scribe says:


    how about:

    wanna meet my friend, schumpeter?


  81. sas says:

    some you blokes on this board have gone plum loco.


  82. Terc says:

    It’s a Manhattan 2br/2ba actually. In the neighborhood of Inwood. Last summer a 2br/2ba went for 519,000. I’m with a broker right now and I’m asking too much; I know that. I wish somebody would come along and lowball me. Give me something to consider. The comps in my nabe right now are a lot cheaper, but need a lot of work. My place needs no renovations. It’s nice. Anyway, if I drop the price down to 519 it will be very hard to pay the broker. So I’m thinking of dropping the price and going FSBO. Thanks for your opinions. This site is great.

  83. Veto That says:

    7 banks in one friday? ay caramba.

    one saturday morning i will wake up, check the blog and see boa, citi, goldman and jpm are on that list.

  84. Pat says:

    Gary 76:

    O.K., realtor. I have proposition for you. You buy the house, and rent it to me.

    If the rent covers your costs, after one year, I’ll buy it from you AND give you the commission.

  85. Veto That says:

    “What response shall I give to said realtor?”

    Dear Realtor,
    in light of the rapidly recovering real estate market that you have described, i have decided to put off the home purchase until my lambroghini gets out of the shop and my wife, denise richards, gets back from her business trip next month.

  86. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Damn, down to my last flask of bourbon, and it isn’t even anything decent.

  87. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [86] sas

    Yes, I think clot has become a bit surly as of late.

    Come to think of it, so have I.

  88. Veto That says:

    “What response shall I give to said realtor?”

    Option #2:

    Dear Realtor,
    i would be happy to buy earlier as long as you promise to punch me in the bread basket and then kick my teeth out upon signing the final contract. Im really into inflicting pain on myself and want to make sure i get my money’s worth.

  89. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [57] meter

    “’Is having at least one family member suckling at the gubmint teat the only way to live here?’

    That’s going to be my approach. Otherwise, I draw the same conclusions as you.”

    Mine too. With my firm taking broadsides, further making it less likely that I have any prospects for a future there, it’s time to find out who I know in government who is hiring.

    Ironically, I can probably find work in DC, but we foolishly decided to root here so that our daughters aren’t raised like army brats.

    But I gotta get on the govvie teat so that I have more security, fewer hours, and a pension that I can hit up the taxpayer for.

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [20] chifi

    “I am going to be snowed in, and all I have is Glenlivit 15…stuff gives me a sinus headache…”

    Quit yer b1tchin, I have a 375 ml flask of Jim Beam and about 1 double shot of Macallan 12 yr.

    Fcuking swill. Looks like I am raiding the wine cellar. At least that’s well stocked.

  91. Veto That says:

    “What response shall I give to said realtor?”

    Option #3:

    Dear Realtor,
    Judging from the pictures, all of those overpriced homes you sent me look as if they smell like piss.

  92. Veto That says:

    “What response shall I give to said realtor?”

    Option #4:

    Dear Realtor,
    If your compensation requires you to match a sucker with the severely overpriced homes that you sent me, i should warn you that its supposed to be a very cold winter.

  93. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:


    How much higher than $519K are you listed at right now ??

    Careful — if you signed any agreement with said broker…..you may have to pay him whether you sell it or he sells it. When does your listing agreement expire ??

    The holidays are probably the worst time to try and sell a home. Maybe after the Super Bowl, there will be more buyers.

  94. 3b says:

    #76 gary: Dear Realtor: What is this economic recovery of which you speak? Is it a unicorn?

  95. cobbler says:

    nom [95]

    From #7: The volunteers who drank whisky reported far more hangover symptoms such as headache nausea, thirst and fatigue compared with those who drank vodka.
    However, the overall performance at the concentration task was roughly the same between the two groups.

    Explains both prevailing surly mood and random brilliance on this board.

  96. Veto That says:

    “What response shall I give to said realtor?”

    Option #5:

    Dear Realtor,
    You are the only person i have ever met who takes more drugs than me.

  97. PGC says:

    #95 Nom

    You’re trying to sell the idea of a Nompound and a few hours into a minor snowstorm you run out of drinkable booze!

    I think your logistics and marketing plan need a bit of work … :*)

    My issue is the ratio of Whisky to Whiskey is skewed to far Scottish for my liking.

  98. Terc says:

    Fiddy 98.

    Our agreement expired a couple weeks ago. Trying to decide what to do going forward. Right now, we’re the only decent 2br/2ba in this zip code. Makes it hard to know how to price it. Been waiting for someone who’s sold their UWS or Tribeca apt to come and take it off my hands so I can move to NJ. I’ve had one nibble from just such a person, but no dice. No other 2br/2baths have sold here for months. I’d hate to learn the hard way that I’m not capable of a FSBO.

    For example, I don’t know if I “can hold a mortgage for the buyers who can’t get financing” as NJCoast put it. I don’t even know what that means.

  99. kettle1 says:

    pgc, nom

    any nompound should have at least 1 liter of alcohol per lb per person…

  100. kettle1 says:

    nom, lisoosh,

    already working to get one of the earners in my family into a quasi-governmental management position.

    its the only real long term option in nj unless you are independently wealthy

  101. Veto That says:

    “already working to get one of the earners in my family into a quasi-governmental management position.”

    Ket, at least wait till they graduate pre school first. They are just way too young to work.
    Besides all those coffee breaks might stunt their growth.

  102. kettle1 says:


    i figure that child labor will be back in once the depression 2.0 is in full swing. might as well get ahead of the curve.

  103. safeashouses says:

    #76 gary

    Dear agent,

    May you have better luck shaking money from people as a pole dancer than you do at your current position.


    PS: Let me know where you wind up dancing, I have a lot of nickels and am a generous tipper.

  104. meter says:

    “Gary –
    Dear Realtor – take me off your mailing list.”


    I humbly submit:

    Dear Realtor,

    You do realize I wasn’t one of the stupid proles buying houses at the peak of the market and thus am flush with cash. Being smarter than the average realtor, you realize by extension that increasing interest rates = lower prices for houses, a situation that benefits someone like me who has been patient and smart about not investing in toxic sludge. Like most of your current listings.

  105. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    OK Terc….that makes the picture a little clearer.

    “Holding a Mortgage for Buyers who have trouble getting financing” means just about exactly what it sounds like. I would caution against it. You don’t want to be in the position of getting your Sales Price in 360 low monthly payments. Especially from someone who couldn’t get approved by any known lender. You want your price in one nice big check, and get on with your life.

    You may have to pick a price somewhere between “just above your minimum walk-away sale price” and “just below that highest recent sale” and then market the hell out of it.

    You know Manhattan better than anyone….where do potential buyers look for renovated 2 bed, 2 bath units ??

  106. Minwaiting says:

    Terc 103
    For example, I don’t know if I “can hold a mortgage for the buyers who can’t get financing” as NJCoast put it. I don’t even know what that means.

    relist, no offense.

  107. lostinny says:


    Excuse my ignorance but I can’t imagine anyone paying 519 in Inwood.

  108. Veto That says:

    Option #6:

    Dear Realtor,
    Now i understand why you will be replaced by a website.

  109. Veto That says:

    Option #7:

    Dear Realtor,
    You have a better chance of selling me snow right now.

  110. Veto That says:

    Ok mine are actually getting worse.

    My fav is 78 by far.
    84 gets an honerable mention.

  111. Veto That says:

    “Excuse my ignorance but I can’t imagine anyone paying 519 in Inwood.”

    lost, they aint making no more land in inwood.

  112. lostinny says:


    I guess I’ll have to live with giving up the idea of land in Inwood.

  113. Minwaiting says:

    Gary And I should over pay WHY?
    You can’t mahe this stuff up.Cheaper to rent but buy it.F***en A hole.

  114. Minwaiting says:

    By the way my hij* lmnop button just broHe so will be using H.

  115. Minwaiting says:

    Hi lost !

  116. lostinny says:

    Hi Mike
    How’s the snow up there?

  117. Minwaiting says:

    Not to bad L just getting going. ChecH out linH you liHe.

  118. Terc says:

    I bought into Inwood in 2001. I probably will never again make such a lucky financial decision as long as I live. At the height of the bubble, 2 bedrooms were beginning to approach the 590s. Especially up here on the hill, next to lovely parks and gardens where all the affluent progressives reside.

  119. lostinny says:

    That link just takes me to the MLS home page.

  120. Minwaiting says:

    Shit doesn’t worH. I’ll send to your email latter this computer is going nuts ca ‘t get on my email.

  121. Minwaiting says:

    Shit doesn’t worH. I’ll send to your email later this computer is going nuts ca ‘t get on my email.

  122. Minwaiting says:

    Shades of shore & the double post.

  123. Veto That says:

    miHe, linH dont worH.

  124. Minwaiting says:

    Nom have plenty of booze want to drive to Vernon?

  125. Minwaiting says:

    Veto I love it.

  126. lostinny says:

    Cracking open a bottle of wine now.

  127. lostinny says:


    Dear Realtor:
    I’d rather light myself on fire then buy a house from you.

  128. Minwaiting says:

    Scotch for me JW BlacH

  129. Schumpeter says:

    I wonder what would happen if grim declared a don’t use “k” day here.

    Could be more fun than talking like a pirate.

  130. yikes says:

    tbiggs – thanks for the tips. we’ll have to check ’em out.

    broke in the new snowblower today. good stuff. will give it another run tomorrow … assuming the snow stops.

    in bucks county we’re at – im guessing here – 7-8 inches.

    (that’s what she said)

  131. lostinny says:

    I measure the snow by how high it gets on my dog. When we let her out to run in it I’ll figure it out.

  132. lostinny says:

    Gary here’s another.

    Dear Realtor:
    How about you lick me. Then, if you like the taste, you can try to sell me a house.

  133. Minwaiting says:

    GO to gsmls Sussex county Vernon 175 to 200 3bed number 2701025 price 192000 taxes 5000

  134. Veto That says:

    “more fun than talking like a pirate.”

    Can’t we talk like Canadians instead?
    I’m on my 6th Molson.

  135. Minwaiting says:

    With your dog lost we need some blizzard.

  136. Veto That says:

    lost, dont worry about 138.
    133 totally makes up for it.

  137. Minwaiting says:

    Clot give a looH should I maHe a move. By the way USDA loan low, income out of worH, they pay any money over 30 percent. I can always live free 2 years. Then buy cash.Income not cash assets means test by the way.

  138. lostinny says:

    The house seems like its a good size. Why is there an association fee? I’m not sure about the red countertop and stairs in the kitchen but I do like the dual staircases. There are some cosmetic things I’d change but overall, maybe not too bad.

  139. lostinny says:

    Yes if we want some real accumulation we do need a blizzard to measure up on my pup.

  140. Veto That says:

    lol – i had way worse.

  141. Minwaiting says:

    Lost lahe dues. 150 per yr. Nice size 3 Hids need room, fairly new, yes maHe some changes but no big money needed to do what you want.

  142. lostinny says:

    If that house was much further south, I’d seriously consider it.

  143. Essex says:

    139…So I guess the “wait” is over! Congrats!

  144. Veto That says:

    assessed for 300K?
    taxes no too bad. Dont know the area but for under 200K that looks like a great deal.

  145. Minwaiting says:

    By the way lost my wife loved on 138. Did that come out right.

  146. lostinny says:

    Yes Mike
    I was going to say lick my b@lls but I thought that was a little over the top. :)

  147. Minwaiting says:

    Veto come north there are plenty’ for 300H you can really have the bomb.I’m living in 3700 sq for 655 a month, ash Hettle 1 he has been to my rental.

  148. Minwaiting says:

    It is really tough with out the “H” you don’t Hnow how much you miss it till its gone.

  149. Minwaiting says:

    Essex if I can get that loan yes.

  150. Minwaiting says:

    I should say hand out not loan. If you can’t beat them join them. Now I just need a gov job & all will be fine.

  151. Veto That says:

    “I’m living in 3700 sq for 655 a month”

    why are you even thinking of buying? Your ‘rent or buy’ analysis must blow the doors off of any purchase scenario.

  152. Schumpeter says:

    Fuch the gubmint, any way you can.

  153. Schumpeter says:

    Note to self: Hnob Creek before noon may be a bit much.

  154. lostinny says:

    Did you see my message earlier?

  155. Schumpeter says:

    By the time mike’s rent/purchase arb says “buy”, we’ll be so far gone, all he’ll have to do is commandeer whichever burned-out, vacant shell of a house catches his eye.

    His biggest problem won’t be taxes. It’ll be securing the perimeter.

  156. Schumpeter says:

    lost (161)-

    Have to admit, I don’t remember your friend’s line of work.

    Was hoping it would come to me, but the whiskey’s starting to eat my brain.

  157. Minwaiting says:

    VETO yea it does. But nothing last for ever. My buddy taHes a 8H lose every year,
    taxes 16H.Get on the gov dole while the going is good.

  158. Smathers says:

    i’ve asked before so i’ll ask again.

    stop the invectives and tell me the name(s) of a good broker in the montclair/glen ridge area who is cognizant of the situation.

    i don’t want to hear that it’s a great deal or a fabulous house when it is a pissed over calamity. i’m willing to buy and i’ve got teh cash folks. 20% down on $700? Sure. You just need to make sure that $700 gem is not a horrorshow worth $350, ok? I’m willing to take the loss I’ll face in the next year because my landlord is a crack-smoking loon and i don’t want to deal with him anymore. similarly, i don’t want to waste my time with realtors who believe that it’s time to party like it’s 1999.

  159. Schumpeter says:


    Does he make Cuban sandwiches?

    Me like Cuban sandwiches.

  160. Veto That says:

    159- From my fav punk band to you…


  161. Schumpeter says:

    smathers (165)-

    You’ll have an easier time figuring out cold fusion than finding an agent in that area who isn’t guzzling the koolaid.

    BTW, I’m a Realtor (nowhere near that area).

  162. Schumpeter says:

    Veto (167)-

    No future for you.

  163. Minwaiting says:

    Clot locH & load plenty of ammo & deer to eat by the way. I swear I’m having a GTG here before I leave , you will not believe this place for the price.

  164. Minwaiting says:

    Smathers GRIM

  165. lostinny says:

    163 Schump

    She does collections.

  166. lostinny says:

    A gtg up there sounds like fun minus the deer hunting.

  167. Minwaiting says:

    Lost 173 you guys free Tuesday?
    Clot 172 growth industry for sure.

  168. Minwaiting says:

    Lost lets do a late lunch with a tour by none other than me of Vernon.

  169. lostinny says:

    Can’t come up until the health issues are sorted out. But as soon as we’re ok, we’ll visit.

  170. PGC says:


    What are you complaing about. Great results in the EPL and you have the barcodes aginst Boro tomorrow. Tuck in and enjoy.

  171. BC Bob says:

    “stop the invectives and tell me the name(s) of a good broker in the montclair/glen ridge area who is cognizant of the situation.”


    Don’t know if he/she slops in Montclair/GR, however, have you tried Timmy G’s broker. He/she found some fool, [taxpayer] to pay $7,500 a month. I’m sure they can work wonders for you.

    Better yet, can you find me one CB, other than Aussie, that’s cognizant?

  172. PGC says:

    #172 Mike,

    Can we go ski on the grassy slopes of Mountain Creek

  173. Minwaiting says:

    Clot Clot Clot (Bueller)want to do lunch.

  174. Minwaiting says:

    Lost OH we 4 its a date when you guys are ready.
    PGC not grassy any more. As of today!

  175. BC Bob says:

    Bi is cognizant. He/she said, after the first 50B, that there will be no more writedowns. Currently, as we approach, $2T, there is no end in sight. Swaps with foreign CB’s? Ignore that, just day to day operations

    Subscribe to Bi’s blackbox. After all, it can’t be much worse than Cioffi’s.

  176. BC Bob says:

    “What are you complaing about. Great results in the EPL and you have the barcodes aginst Boro tomorrow. Tuck in and enjoy.”


    Scmump will tuck in and enjoy once the foundation of the Comex implodes. Coming soon.

  177. BC Bob says:

    That’s Schump.

  178. Schumpeter says:

    mike (180)-

    Maybe. You got some good pre-foreclosures up there?

    You must.

  179. Schumpeter says:

    My Magpies are going right back to the Prem! That will be the end of those Life-Savers kits, too. They will blast Boro off the pitch tomorrow.

    Good results today. City-Sunderland was a great game (esp. if you don’t like defending).

  180. Minwaiting says:

    Bc explained it to my 17 teen old yesterday he could not believe banH failure Friday thought it was the first. Ha! I showed him the history. Clot may be right about this sit. after all.

  181. Schumpeter says:

    lost (172)-

    I’ve always fantasized about being a repo guy.

    Down South, you gotta have a sawed-off, a mean dog, tasers and a crew. Is your friend selling her business with those “fixtures” included?

  182. lostinny says:

    188 Schump
    That’s not the way she runs her business. She’s doing collections not repo. She does pretty well not being the sc@mbag kind. Call me at some point and I can give you some details. Then you can decide if you want to talk to her.

  183. Essex says:

    165. Welcome Smithers.

  184. Minwaiting says:

    Clot 185 yes we do, have a nice 3 bd ranch , Hnow the owner (teacher in town), got cash come up bargains abound. As you said it is almost crazy for me to maHe a move. Have another offer 5 bd Vic ( for me to rent) real nice will play one off the other lower monthly if you can believe that.

  185. lostinny says:

    I have some dreadful feeling I’m going to end up moving to Tampa- either the Hyde Park area or if I’m lucky, Redington Beach. But I’m not lucky.

  186. lostinny says:

    Mike I pay more in rent for a tiny litte apt just under 500 sq. feet then you do for your whole house. I don’t like you. :)

  187. Minwaiting says:

    Lost 193 Now I Hnow that is not true. Oh I don’t mean your rent sorry couldn’t help that one. What ever you are paying you can have my master suit , bath & his & her walH ins for half ( more Sq Ft)plus pool & yard for half!No crime low car ins & you have more teeth than any one else!

  188. Pat says:

    MiHe, I just almost posted to lost asHing her to swap with us for next summer for a week.

    But my husband said nobody wants to come here.

  189. BC Bob says:

    How about Meredith Whitney for Time Person of The Year? She called the top for GS, back in Oct.. She must love the giant dome of distribution on the S&P chart, in conjuction with the declining volume. Oops, let’s forget about that. After all, this site has designated TA as voodoomics. The 10 Q’s are the final arbiter.

  190. BC Bob says:


    I would come to Maryland to watch Earl The Pearl and Dancin’ Harry stick it to Wesley Unseld. Other than that, fcuk route 13 or 95.

  191. I went to the link you give to get the free gift card for toys from Kmart but it says I am not in USA and do not qualify, do you know if Kmart is doing this in canada too?

  192. Pat says:

    Bob, I’m under an hour from either Skyline Drive or the Capitol.

    But this isn’t exactly vacation heaven.

    More like bring your bike and get some exercise. There’s a creek, lotsa hiking and a guy with kettle corn.

    Woo Hoo.

  193. still_looking says:

    also for Cindy: A better example of it… minus the bad disco music :)



  194. lostinny says:

    I’m just more jealous now. thanks.

  195. lostinny says:

    Nobody wants to come here either.

  196. Schumpeter says:

    lost (192)-

    Resist FL. Everyone who moves there loses at least 10 IQ points right off the bat.

    I don’t think I can do collections. Doing what I do now has taught me that I have way too much empathy for people in tough spots. I could only do repos, since there’s little to no communication with the other party before getting the goods.

  197. Schumpeter says:

    pat (195)-

    Where you live, they’re still fighting the Civil War.

  198. chicagofinance says:

    50.yikes says:
    December 19, 2009 at 10:52 am
    Two weeks ago, we had a craving for the Melting Pot. PF Chang’s

    yikes: objectively, the Melting Pot is expensive for what it is; toss in that it is disgusting and you throw snake eyes……PF Chang’s my G-d…..I refer to it as NaCl Chang’s….prepackaged crap

  199. chicagofinance says:

    NaCl as in sodium chloride

  200. yo'me says:

    Smile. The Economy Isn’t in a Second Depression
    Don’t get too angry over bailouts—that sort of rage could prevent a sustainable recovery

    Japan provides a tragicomic tale of the damage that can occur when the public gets angry and the government takes the easy way out. (Keep in mind that Japan’s main stock market gauge is still down 74% from its level of 20 years ago, so whatever Japan did, we should try to do the opposite.)

    A bit of history: When Japan’s real estate bubble burst in the 1990s, ordinary citizens opposed taxpayer bailouts for the specialized housing lenders that had helped inflate the bubble. But after promising not to use public funds, the Finance Ministry eventually pumped in a bit of money in 1995. It was only about $7 billion. Still, the public was so outraged that the opposition party nearly managed to topple the government.

    That $7 billion brouhaha precipitated a bigger problem in 1997, when Japan’s crisis deepened and big commercial banks and securities firms started failing. Frightened of the voters’ reaction, the government did not ask for enough money to recapitalize the financial sector. It resorted to accounting dodges and brave declarations that the problem was solved. It wasn’t, of course. The failure to fix the banking system prolonged Japan’s slump for years.

    Cynicism and rage could put the U.S. in the same hole, warns Anil Kashyap, an economist at the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business who recounted the cautionary tale from Japan in a December 2008 paper with Takeo Hoshi of the University of California at San Diego. Fearful, Congress has deflected blame onto the Fed and other agencies. Ultimately, though, preventing the next crisis will require building those agencies up, not tearing them down. Also, many economists argue that the economy could slip back into recession or torpor without more fiscal stimulus and more asset purchases by the Fed. Yet Congress and the central bank are wary of a public that has come to equate almost any government action with taxpayer ripoffs.


  201. Shoren Guy says:

    Hey Gary,

    Get to building an igloo, man, then list it quickly. In Bergen County, it should be worth $100,000 at least.

    Let the new owner deal with the housing meltdown in the spring.

  202. Shoren Guy says:


    Got tht path to the train cleared off yet?

  203. kettle1 says:


    If we are all turning japanese, does that mean we have to start shrinking?


  204. "H"ettle1 says:

    miHe in waiting

    careful, my wife is about 2 steps away from calling you up after some recent BS with my current landlord.

  205. "H"ettle1 says:

    And yes MiHes place is very nice. For what he’s paying i suspect money laundering… ;)

  206. Shore sounds suspicious Guy says:

    A dissident dies in a police state? What are the odds?

    BREAKING NEWS 1:41 AM ET Iran’s Senior Dissident Cleric, Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, Has Died, The Associated Press Reports

  207. Shore a mess in Hawaii Guy says:

    Via NY Times:

    HONOLULU (AP) — Public schools in Hawaii are closed most Fridays, rats scurry across bananas in an uninspected market, and there may not be enough money to run a Congressional election.

    About the only parts of the state untouched by the struggling economy are its sparkling beaches and world-class surfing.

    Hawaii’s money troubles are creating a society more befitting a tropical backwater than a state celebrating its 50th anniversary and preparing to welcome President Obama home for Christmas this week.

    “There is community energy and outrage building up,” said James Koshiba, a co-founder of the activist organization and Web site Kanu Hawaii, speaking about the cuts to education. “The people have to play a bigger role. Folks won’t forget how this unfolds, come election time.”

    Hawaii now has the shortest school year in the nation after the state and the teachers’ union agreed to shutter schools for 17 days a year, leaving 171,000 students without class on most Fridays. Negotiations to reopen them collapsed last week.

    Food establishments often go uninspected, a fact highlighted by an Internet video showing rats roaming freely across produce in a Honolulu Chinatown market. The state has just nine health inspectors on Oahu to handle nearly 6,000 markets and restaurants.

    The State Elections Office said it might not be able to afford a pending special election, which could leave half of the state’s population without a voice in the House of Representatives until September.

    Homelessness is on the rise, and mental health, child abuse, welfare and day care programs are short on cash.

    And next year may be even worse because tax revenues continue to plunge with the economy.

    Hawaii is far from alone in cutting the size of government during the global economic downturn, with nearly every state resorting to across-the-board cuts, furloughs or layoffs to make ends meet. This state of 1.3 million residents faces a projected $1 billion budget deficit through June 2011.

    But Hawaii stands apart in how its government response has been to reduce what are generally considered to be core functions: education, public health, elections and services for the disadvantaged.

    Gov. Linda Lingle, a Republican, warned that the state government would not look the same after she ordered most departments to cut their budgets by about 14 percent.

    “Government is not going to be able to provide the array of services at the level that we used to, because we have billions of dollars less,” Ms. Lingle said this month.

    The National Conference of State Legislatures listed Hawaii, despite its having largely withstood the housing market collapse, as one of 13 states with a pessimistic budget outlook for the current fiscal year. And it is projected to have the second-largest shortfall, in terms of percentage, in the 2012 fiscal year, at 28.8 percent, behind only Arizona at 30 percent.

    Honolulu’s shortage of health inspectors is not new, but the cuts now call for the elimination of the Health Department’s vector control unit, which helps homeowners and businesses eradicate rodent, mosquito, fly and other pest problems.

    “This is not good government,” said Larry Geller, the Internet blogger and political watchdog who posted the rat video. Other states are struggling with the same problems, Mr. Geller said, but in Hawaii, “I think the choices have been poorly made.”

    As for the pending election, Hawaii’s elections chief said his office did not have enough money to run either a regular or all-mail vote. A special election will be needed because Representative Neil Abercrombie, a Democrat, plans to resign in the next few weeks to run for governor.

  208. Cindy says:

    Still #199 and 202

    A nurse friend visited yesterday and gave me a “treatment.” I never thought having someone basically use you as a drum set could feel so good.

    She said she also has a massage device that can be used. It just felt too good to have her “work” on that one right lobe.

    Thanks for all the help. I go to the regular doc tomorrow.

  209. lostinny says:

    218 Cindy
    Was that a massage or some kind of healing ritual?

  210. lostinny says:

    I think there is easily a foot of snow outside. The dog didn’t know what to do when she couldn’t navigate the stairs.

  211. Essex says:

    A note on Sussex Co: As an avid snowboarder….I am half-way tempted to hit mountain creek today. But I am sure the long lines and obnoxious people will keep me away. Oh well. Looks like sledding with the kiddie later.

  212. yo'me says:

    ‘Sizzling’ Market

    Average new apartment prices in Pudong gained 57 percent this year to a record $4,061 per square meter, while overall prices for China’s richest city rose 26 percent to a record $2,434, according to Shanghai Uwin, which tracks prices.

    Accountant Wang Jin waited in a downpour for six hours last month to buy into a Pudong apartment project by Shui On Land Ltd., a Hong Kong-traded developer controlled by billionaire Vincent Lo.

    More than 800 people lined up outside a sports stadium to buy about 220 units costing about $4,100 per square meter on average.


  213. Essex says:

    219. No, just rough secks.

  214. leftwing says:


    If I recall Manhattan real estate is totally different, There’s no Jersey-like MLS there, so it’s mostly broker to broker?

    If so, I would think it tough not to re-list.

    You may, however, be able to negotiate the fee. I’ve never paid over 4.5% here. Key for me is to keep the BB’s commish at 2.5% minimum or they won’t bring the buyers. For various reasons my selling agent eats it. You will only be able to do this if the selling agent you’re dealing with sees this as a very easy, no effort sale. Meaning price and work.

    Also, I did on the downside of this market sell a piece of land I purchased in the late 90s here in Jersey essentially FSBO for a nice price. In this situation though there are about four brokerages that account for 90% of the sales in the area I held it. I contacted each one and told them I would protect them on a commish if they had a buyer. Also, it was land, so there was zero effort for me or anyone else to show it (just give the address and drive by). Don’t know if anything here would be analogous to your situation.

    Hope it helps.

  215. still_looking says:

    219, lost,
    223, Essx,

    Nope, just the fund of chest percussion…. and no, I don’t mean an above-waist version of butt bongo.

    It’s just a way to help loosen and clear mucus (and hence prevent empyema, lung abscesses, and other complications of pneumonia.)

    lost: it’s not homeopathic or naturopathic – just “lung physical therapy” so-to-speak. And for sure it’s not “Reiki” where you wave your hands *over* the person’s body in an attempt to “realign their aura.”

    Essex: Don’t get too excited about it, mmmmkay? It ain’t sexy, just effective. The mucus that comes up in the end would probably send you hurling…


  216. still_looking says:

    *fun* even..


  217. lostinny says:

    Thanks for the info. I’m going to find out why nothing like this was ever suggested to or used on someone I know.

  218. lostinny says:


    Double check before you head up there. I heard the snowboarding areas didn’t get much snow.

  219. grim says:

    From the Record:

    N.J. spends more stimulus money but gets fewer jobs

    New Jersey is spending more than most other states on each highway project being built with federal stimulus money, but creating fewer jobs.

    Through October, the state had the third-highest average project cost — $9.6 million — and the 17th-highest total spending on projects under way. But New Jersey ranked 34th in jobs created, according to a Record analysis of data released by the House transportation committee.

    Just 27 jobs were created through September at a Route 46 project in Lodi, according to a report filed by the state with a federal board created to track stimulus spending. Vice President Joe Biden said the project would create 250 jobs when he visited for the groundbreaking in May.

  220. Cindy says:

    226 Still –

    It felt so good. Bobbi’s been a nurse for 35 years and it was the first thing she suggested when she dropped by yesterday. I had her do it one more time before she left and show me how to cup my hand so I can now show anyone who walks through my door.

    Every time anyone visits I’ll get a “treatment.”

  221. safeashouses says:

    #229 grim,

    That’s cause high quality bloated bureaucracies don’t come cheap.

  222. Schumpeter says:

    Cindy (218)-

    Stop baiting John.

  223. Schumpeter says:

    “Cereal for dinner? It’s a tough reality for some cash-strapped people.

    Rising popularity of cereal among those looking for a cheap meal combined with plunging ingredient costs to boost the second-quarter profit of Cheerios maker General Mills Inc. 50 percent.

    The increase is a sign of the economic stress still facing families amid high unemployment who want to cut spending and save time, but don’t want to rely on fast food. Food banks are seeing rising demand for cereal as people try to find a nutritious meal that costs as little as possible. That’s blurring lines between traditional meals.

    Kellie Hotz and her husband, Jeff, eat cereal for dinner three times a week as they struggle to stretch their budgets and care for a toddler. Hotz said cereal is less expensive than fast food, so she keeps a dozen boxes on hand. “It’s the fastest, easiest and at least somewhat half-nutritious thing to do during the weekdays,” said Hotz, 29, of Arlington Heights, Ill.

    “Breakfast foods such as eggs are popular now all times of the day because they’re quick, nutritious and inexpensive, said Christopher Shanahan, a research analyst with Frost & Sullivan. “The lines of when to eat breakfast, when to eat dinner, when to eat lunch have been slightly blurring,” he said.

    Food banks across the country are clamoring for cereal to hand out to families, who are increasingly seeking out food assistance.”


    “Houston fund manager and Minyanville professor Ryan Krueger thinks people are drawn to bacon right now because, in his words, it’s a “recessionary version of the truffle.”

    Brian Dimarco, former account director for Burger King (BKC) at now-defunct advertising agency DMB&B, says, “Bacon is the ultimate comfort food. In times of stress and economic trouble, eating bacon is like being swaddled in comforting fat.”

    Author Sarah Katherine Lewis has a different take. She wrote, “Bacon is the cocaine of the ’00s, a visible sign of decadent rebellion.”

    Elin Roberts, science communications manager at the Centre for Life education center in Newcastle, England, told the Telegraph newspaper that “The smell of sizzling bacon in a pan is enough to tempt even the staunchest of vegetarians. There’s something deeper going on inside. It’s not just the idea of a tasty snack. There is some complex chemistry going on.”


  224. ruggles says:

    Been up since 7:30 and the town snowplows and salters just made their sixth pass in front of my house. I can hear them scraping asphalt. guess that’s what my taxes get me.

  225. ruggles says:

    Being PWT, I love cereal. anytime of day. Bacon, I can take or leave, tho.

  226. Cindy says:


    Short but pretty good summary.

    “What went wrong and how can we fix it.”

  227. Essex says:

    If you are looking for a cheap meal….canned tuna fish. High protein and just a touch of mercury…..YUM!

    Folks that eat cereal all of the time might be regular, but doughy and weak. When the revolution comes they will be the ones to perish first (sarcasm)

  228. Essex says:

    Think of it this way…for everyone who got a loan when the gettin’ was good and did the home repairs/additions….great. For everyone who waited, I wonder how they feel watching the action and thinking, damn. Now I can’t get a loan to save my life.

  229. Laurie says:

    RE# the snow storm of dec 95….he’s still asleep upstairs, born in sept of 96…
    Cindy…take your time to recover, a relapse is the worst and you feel dragged out for so much longer. I felt completely wiped out when I had h1n1 for the better part of 3 weeks…and 6 weeks before I really felt it was behind me. Now, however I feel empowered…germs everywhere…bring it on!

  230. Laurie says:

    FSBO…my biggest problem with this is a credibility issue…you have no way of knowing weather or not your buyers are serious, and I think they feel they can take you for a ride with promises of buying your house because i really think that they don’t take you seriously. My husband and I have tried it twice, no luck…broker on board? Sale.

  231. Essex says:

    I don’t mind letting a qualified professional earn their money doing what they do. DIY is highly overrated.

  232. New in NJ says:

    237 Essex –

    I agree that tuna in a can is good subsistence food. I would say the same about sardines – high in protein, less mercury, and high in omega-3s – but what’s with the price? Sardines are poor food in most of the world, and fresh ones are pretty cheap in my favorite Newark markets, but they’re $10 – $15 per pound in a tin. I don’t get it. In a tin they’re priced up there with shrimp and lobster.

  233. ruggles says:

    The issue with FSBO vs. agent is that the cost and value of the service for selling your specific house is not 6%. Agents absolutely are worth paying for. Their basic services are invaluable mainly for two reasons: 1. networking and 2. people are stupid.

    Problem is that the listing agent commission also pays for the brokerage’s overall marketing strategy and admin, fees, ads and time spent on houses that never sell or go in and out of contract mulitiple times. We all know that open houses, signs and ads in the paper are not tools to sell your house, they are tools to sell the agent/agency. And on the other end, the sales commission goes to incentivize hundreds of agents to show thousands of properties and again, pay for the brokerage’s marketing and admin, fees, ads and time spent on houses that never sell or go in and out of contract multiple times.

    The house I live in now was sold fsbo in 2004 (way before I got here). The seller easily undercut themselves by at least 30k and more likely 50k+. The house I sold in 07 was listed in the mls but the way it sold was via a FSBO tool. I will go FSBO on this house if I don’t strategic default first.

  234. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Essex 221 We did not get hit to hard about 5 in. go sledding with Hids.

  235. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Hettle 215 shh……!

  236. House Whine says:

    Not that I would want beans, legumes, brown rice for breakfast but these are high in nutritive value and, if you get the dried beans really, really cheap. I think a lot of the supposedly healthy cereals are empty calories, and at $4 a pop I don’t consider the cereal to be that cheap. In my household, what is considered to be a serving of cereal according to the box label would never satisfy the guys in my house. Potatoes are cheap and can fill you up but they seem to have gotten a bad rap.

  237. Essex says:

    244. Cool. No my jab was more at the mountain creek scene than anything else. What a sh*thole.

  238. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Hettle if you want to come up here I might be able to get you a bigger house than mine cheap. Sorry folHs this is on my word so only people I Hnow can get. Rep as a stand up guy goes along way in my circles. Will mahe inquiry if you liHe.

    By the way anyone Hnow how to replace Hey board in laptop. This H thing is driving me crazy.

  239. Essex says:

    246. Yeah but Frosted Flakes are Yummy…for full grown morons.

  240. Essex says:

    248. H-ilarious.

  241. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Essex have you tried Hidden valley down the road it’s where the locals go. Smaller less a holes. No bus loads of bennies.

  242. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Essex 250 Which part? the h thing or the veiled references in my offer to Het 1.

  243. Schumpeter says:

    Ramen is still the ultimate cheap food.

    The MSG head rushes are also a nice bonus.

  244. Essex says:

    251…I always start my year there at Hidden valley…nice little place. But kind of bored there.

  245. Essex says:

    252, the H.

  246. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Essex yes not so big but as you say nice little place.

  247. Schumpeter says:

    My kid has an entire folder on this computer full of info on how to mummify things. Should I be worried?

  248. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Clot 257 yes the apple doesn’t fall far.

  249. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Some power outages up here last night spoaHe to some fiends this morn ,all better now.

  250. Essex says:

    257. No because taxidermy and mummification is perfectly normal for a kid to find interest in. Boys tend to lean toward to macabre.

  251. Schumpeter says:

    Whew. Is it too early in the day to drink whiskey?

  252. Essex says:

    Nope…My great granfather Zeta started every day with a shot of bourbon lived to almost 100. In this day and age though that is probably not as desirable.

  253. Essex says:

    I’ll join you. cheers.

  254. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Essex 262 Mine too, shot in coffee every morn 96 for him plus 2 pacHs of camels a day & was a coal miner. Go figure.

  255. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Have a little left from last nights bottle I’m in. Bottoms up gents!

  256. Essex says:

    Amazing. Shows you something right?
    Mike…I spent my teens in Western Kentucky….So in fact, know several miners.

  257. Essex says:

    Bunker Society: The virtual bar room toast. Think of it this way, something is going to kill you…but I will be damned if I don’t enjoy the ride on the way out!

  258. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Must resupply get the jeep ready to go!

  259. Essex says:

    Blantons…..$50 a pop but so damn good. I am stuck with a lesser brand right now *wince*

  260. Essex says:

    Four Roses aint too bad either.

  261. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Essex never ate a processed food or canned crap unless they canned it. Every thing from scratch ate liver, goat heads, tripe, & a lot of beans, it is our food that is Hilling us.
    Wife says if I have another drinH this early I’m a dead man!

  262. Essex says:

    *live to fight another day then*

  263. Essex says:

    But you can tell her it is more effective than mouthwash at killing germs…that cause bad breath.

  264. Schumpeter says:

    Blanton’s is good whiskey. Wouldn’t turn my nose up at that were I to run out of Knob Creek.

    No problem with Maker’s Mark, either.

  265. MiHeinwaiting says:

    Got another in she is mahing beds, straight from the bottle. This is liHe high school.

  266. yikes says:

    when is the next princeton gtg?

    bucks county will be represented.

  267. nw says:


    Not sure if it was a joke I missed, but,

    Start > all programs > accessories > accessibility > on screen keyboard

    It won’t fix your keyboard, but at least you can use the k.

  268. Barbara says:


    My kid has an entire folder on this computer full of info on how to mummify things. Should I be worried?
    my 6 yr old boy is perpetually morbid. He doesn’t like violence in action but he is preoccupied with death and its accoutrements. Gets on my nerves but I ignore it.

  269. MiHeinwaiting says:

    nw 277 no joHe thanHs. Wiil try, not good with computers, old. Me that is.

  270. still_looking says:

    257 Schump,

    “My kid….mummify things.”

    Only if he is ordering enough formaldehyde and rolled gauze for a 6’+ man and (how tall is your wife?) among other family members.

    You don’t collect social security yet, so only your pile of firearms, gold and whiskey is targetable. :)



  271. Mikeinwaiting says:

    NW kkkkkkkkkk it works! Thank you. Are we going to pirate speak now.

  272. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Another good deal.REO
    GO to gsmls Sussex county Vernon 125 to 150 4bed price 145k taxes 7k ouch!

    Have seen inside pics before REO not bad at all.

  273. Mikeinwaiting says:

    2380 sq ft a lot of house for the money

  274. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Would need the firm of stu & gator to appeal taxes.

  275. frank says:

    NJ bureaucrats are out of work starting next year trying to find a real job.

    Gov. Corzine loss to N.J. Gov.-elect Christie puts state employees on job hunt


  276. Cindy says:

    Clot – That mummify things deal…

    Your child may be studying Egypt @ school. Big unit at 6th grade here.

  277. Cindy says:

    I’ve never had much use for Jamba Juice but it turns out that you can drink a bit one day, freeze it, then scrape it with a fork and it lasts for days…

    It’s working pretty well.

  278. cobbler says:

    to appeal taxes

    Cleaners ‘worth more to society’ than bankers – study
    By Martin Shankleman,
    Employment correspondent, BBC News


    Hospital cleaners are worth more to society than bankers, a study suggests.

    The research, carried out by think tank the New Economics Foundation, says hospital cleaners create £10 of value for every £1 they are paid.

    It claims bankers are a drain on the country because of the damage they caused to the global economy.

    They reportedly destroy £7 of value for every £1 they earn. Meanwhile, senior advertising executives are said to “create stress”.

    The study says they are responsible for campaigns which create dissatisfaction and misery, and encourage over-consumption.

    Waste workers promote recycling, researchers note
    And tax accountants damage the country by devising schemes to cut the amount of money available to the government, the research suggests.

    By contrast, child minders and waste recyclers are also doing jobs that create net wealth to the country.

    The Foundation has used a new form of job evaluation to calculate the total contribution various jobs make to society, including for the first time the impact on communities and environment.

    Eilis Lawlor, spokeswoman for the New Economics Foundation, said: “Pay levels often don’t reflect the true value that is being created. As a society, we need a pay structure which rewards those jobs that create most societal benefit rather than those that generate profits at the expense of society and the environment”.

    Tax accountants are said to destroy £47 in value for every £1 generated
    She said the aim of the research was not to target individuals in highly paid jobs, or suggest people in low paid jobs should earn more.

    “The point we are making is more fundamental – that there should be a relationship between what we are paid and the value our work generates for society. We’ve found a way to calculate that,” she said.

    A total of six different jobs were analysed to assess their overall value. These are the study’s main findings:

    The elite banker
    “Rather than being wealth creators bankers are being handsomely rewarded for bringing the global financial system to the brink of collapse

    Paid between £500,000 and £80m a year, leading bankers destroy £7 of value for every pound they generate”.

    Childcare workers
    “Both for families and society as a whole, looking after children could not be more important. As well as providing a valuable service for families, they release earnings potential by allowing parents to continue working. For every pound they are paid they generate up to £9.50 worth of benefits to society.”

    Hospital cleaners
    “Play a vital role in the workings of healthcare facilities. They not only clean hospitals and maintain hygiene standards but also contribute to wider health outcomes. For every pound paid, over £10 in social value is created.”

    Advertising executives
    The industry “encourages high spending and indebtedness. It can create insatiable aspirations, fuelling feelings of dissatisfaction, inadequacy and stress. For a salary of between £50,000 and £12m top advertising executives destroy £11 of value for every pound in value they generate”.

    Tax accountants
    “Every pound that a tax accountant saves a client is a pound which otherwise would have gone to HM Revenue. For a salary of between £75,000 and £200,000, tax accountants destroy £47 in value, for every pound they generate.”

    Waste recycling workers
    “Do a range of different jobs that relate to processing and preventing waste and promoting recycling. Carbon emissions are significantly reduced. There is also a value in reusing goods. For every pound of value spent on wages, £12 of value is generated for society.”

    The research also makes a variety of policy recommendations to align pay more closely with the value of work.

    These include establishing a high pay commission, building social and environmental value into prices, and introducing more progressive taxation.

  279. cobbler says:

    While I agree with relative valuations of bankers v. hospital janitors, the conclusions are somewhat utopical.

  280. frank says:

    RE inventory down, prices are up this week in NJ.
    Buy a home now, before prices shoot up.

  281. Laurie says:

    HA Cindy Re#286…yes, Egypt in 6th grade..my daughter and I just made a senet board out of an old cigar box ..last year with my son we made papyrus…love those projects…NOT

  282. frank says:

    Anyone with knowledge of Westfield market?
    Good properties seems to be gone from the market and prices are on fire again? Thoughts?

  283. anon says:

    You’re a shill and an idiot.
    Go back to Secaucus where you came from

  284. db says:

    frank wait till they get 2010 property tax bills ….a guaranteed fire extinguisher

  285. Stu says:

    smathers (165)-

    Schumpy is correct. You will never find a realtor not drinking the kool aid in the area. You will also have a very hard time finding a seller not drinking the same concoction as well.

  286. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Stu the key is putting ever-clear in the kool aid.

  287. lostinny says:

    296 Mike
    Everclear fixes everything.

  288. Mike inwaiting says:

    lost if not you don’t care or remember!

  289. Mikeinwaiting says:

    I am now out of Scotch terrible thing must go to store.

  290. 3b says:

    #292 Hey frank!!! You can grab this one in Westfiled, decent looking 3 bed 2 ba house for 350K. And if you are not happy with that, there are 91 more houses to choose from in Westfield, in all price ranges, from 250k on up, all less than a week before Christmas.

    I think there will be plenty of houses for everyone.


  291. Shore Guy says:


    At least with Jonestown, the deluded went away and did not subject the rest to society to their misguided and absurd beliefs.

    The continual bombardment of positive spin from the misguided of the RE sales profession has gotten WAY old. Perhaps they can find an outpost somewhere where they can all to and tell each other tales all day long.

    Perhaps Clot has some insight into the profession but, I thought the goal was sales, not attempts to prop up prices. Sure one can make more with X sales at price Y than X sales at .85Y but i attempts to price at Y and the market churn rate drops of the cliff, would not the profession prefer to have robust sales activity at a lower price?

  292. Shore Guy says:

    Sleigh bells ring…

  293. Shore Guy says:


  294. Shore Guy says:

    Is everyone out shoveling, or blowing, as the case may be?

  295. Schumpeter says:

    Shore (301)-

    The goal is simple: idiot survival. By hook, crook or ladder. No thought process involved anymore for most agents. It’s just a juggle of car payment, phone bill, rent and which flavor ramen for dinner tonight.

    Bad agents (which is, virtually all agents) have been co-opted into following the banksters’ playbook of pretend-and extend. The longer the game goes, the more agents tap out.

    “Perhaps Clot has some insight into the profession but, I thought the goal was sales, not attempts to prop up prices.”

  296. Schumpeter says:

    The real estate industry in the US has no goal at all. To the extent rational thought is even applied, it is toward trying to create a false impression to the public at large.

    The real estate industry- both commercial and residential- in the US is dead. The bid/ask spreads are untenable, and price discovery is all but impossible; to me, those speak of a completely dead market. There area a handful of agents who maintain a grim baseline of activity by doing workouts of various types, but those workouts don’t form the basis of a thriving industry…nor is it the base from which any “recovery” can be fashioned.

  297. Terc says:

    leftwing [224]

    Thanks for the advice leftwing. My expired contract had me paying only 4%, but he splits a 6% commission if the buyer has a broker. He sold my last place with no co-broker so I just paid the 4% that time, but this time I truly picture myself paying the 6%. Just a gut feeling.

  298. cobbler says:

    Re. Foster Wheeler to Geneva


    Dec. 21 (Bloomberg) — Geneva, touted as a haven for London bankers facing heavier U.K. taxes, may lure fewer than predicted thanks to a housing shortage, crowded schools and a 44 percent income-tax rate.

  299. Mikeinwaiting says:

    clot spot on.

    The real estate industry- both commercial and residential- in the US is dead. The bid/ask spreads are untenable, and price discovery is all but impossible; to me, those speak of a completely dead market. There area a handful of agents who maintain a grim baseline of activity by doing workouts of various types, but those workouts don’t form the basis of a thriving industry…nor is it the base from which any “recovery” can be fashioned.

  300. leftwing says:

    From the oft quoted cleaners v. banker article:

    “And tax accountants damage the country by devising schemes to cut the amount of money available to the government, the research suggests. ”

    Funny, I always pictured anyone cutting the amount of money available to the government as being a net positive to society….

  301. Schumpeter says:

    cobbler (309)-

    Come visit Clinton Twp and the part of Hunterdon Co where most of the upper Foster-Wheeler guys live.

    Whatever privations Geneva may impose upon them, it pales in comparison to being here. This place is going down like a lead balloon.

    Foster-Wheeler has projects all over the planet. Their people are everywhere. If their top brass adjudges Geneva to be the best place to be in order to ride out the storm, best that the rest of us take heed.

  302. Schumpeter says:

    Cereal for dinner is gonna be a luxury in about 3-4 months.

    Better yield, better nutrition and cheaper cost if you cook a pot of beans.

  303. Shore Guy says:

    “schools and a 44 percent income-tax rate”

    When one combines the state tax rate and the federal tax rate, there is little difference between a 44 percent tax rate there and the rates paid by high earnerds her. If one adds the “extra taxes,” which are income taxes but we pretend are not, e.g., medicare and social security (which I recall are included within income taxes in Europe), it may well be a tax cut for the folks shipping off the Geneva.

  304. Shore Guy says:

    Of course, I am sure that Geneva has a hard time standing up against Hunterdon County with respect to beauty and culture.

  305. still_looking says:

    Schump, 313,

    Just Netflixed/watched “Brokeback Mountain” yesterday. I’d stay away from too much bean eating. seems to cause isolated men on mountains to do strange things.


  306. PGC says:

    Todays WTF moment was when they stopped serving beer at the START of the 3rd quarter at the Jets game.

  307. Mikeinwaiting says:

    New thread up.

  308. willwork4beer says:


    Its nothing new. The Jets do not serve beer in the second half anymore.

  309. Schumpeter says:

    PGC (317)-

    Your WTF moment should’ve come when you found yourself walking through the turnstile to watch that steroid-addled gang of losers.

Comments are closed.