NJ Foreclosures: Stabilization at multi-year highs isn’t improvement

Don’t get me wrong, stabilization is good news, but realize that stabilization at these levels is nothing to cheer about. The rate of foreclosures in NJ did not decline in NJ in 2008, they increased by 1%. The best we can say is things aren’t getting worse, but stabilization at these levels over a long term would be disaster. Too early to sound the all-clear on foreclosures. Not only do we need to see the rate decline, but the rate needs to make a strong attempt at a return to the historical norm. What is most disconcerting is that given the incredible amount of federal stimulus and local anti-foreclosure legislation, at best those measures halted the increase. Given the dollars spent to simply arrest the increase, I really wonder how many more dollars are going to be required to push the market towards improving, and not just stabilizing.

From the Record:

Foreclosure filings nearly flat in N.J., but problem is far from over

Foreclosure filings in New Jersey totaled about 63,000 last year, a 1 percent increase over 2008, RealtyTrac said Wednesday. However, the housing market’s troubles are far from over, experts say.

“A massive supply of delinquent loans continues to loom over the housing market, and many of those delinquencies will end up in the foreclosure process in 2010 and beyond,” said James J. Saccacio, chief executive officer of RealtyTrac, which follows the foreclosure market.

Nationally, foreclosure filings were up about 21 percent in 2009, to 2.8 million. The worst-hit states continue to be Nevada, Arizona, Florida and California.

The foreclosure numbers “would have been worse if not for legislative and industry-related delays in processing delinquent loans,” Saccacio said. Those delays include trial-loan modifications, state legislation extending the foreclosure process and “an overwhelming volume of inventory clogging the foreclosure pipeline,” he said.

Salowe-Kaye said her agency is still being inundated by distressed homeowners. And nowadays, more are in trouble not because they got subprime loans but because they have lost their jobs, she said. New Jersey’s unemployment rate is 9.7 percent.

“A lot of foreclosures are being postponed,” she said. “But the house of cards will soon collapse, and a lot of people are going to be put out.”

From the Star Ledger:

N.J. foreclosure filings level off

he number of foreclosure filings sent to New Jerseyans leveled off at the end of last year, according to RealtyTrac.

Lenders sent foreclosure filings to 63,208 commercial and residential properties in New Jersey, about 1 percent more than in 2008, according to the Irvine, Calif.-based firm.

The latest statistics are a sign the real estate market has bottomed-out, according to industry observers. However, they are still a substantial increase over the amount of filings seen before the most recent recession.

“I still think we’re a long way off from letting out that sigh of relief,” said James Bednar, who writes a real estate blog at njrereport.com

The number of filings in New Jersey sky-rocketed in 2008. In 2007, the number of properties that received foreclosure filings was 31,071. In 2006, it was 21,794.

From MarketWatch:

2009 foreclosures hit record high

The number of U.S. residential properties receiving at least one foreclosure filing jumped 21% in 2009 to a record 2.82 million, RealtyTrac, an online foreclosure marketplace, reported Thursday.

“As bad as the 2009 numbers are, they probably would have been worse if not for legislative and industry-related delays in processing delinquent loans,” said James Saccacio, chief executive officer of RealtyTrac.

Saccacio said that monthly foreclosure filings peaked in July at 361,000, then declined for four months before rebounding in December. He said short-term factors, including trial loan modifications, state legislation extending the foreclosure process and an overwhelming volume of inventory clogging the foreclosure pipeline contributed to the second-half declines.

But “in the long term, a massive supply of delinquent loans continues to loom over the housing market, and many of those delinquencies will end up in the foreclosure process in 2010 and beyond, as lenders gradually work their way through the backlog,” he said.

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379 Responses to NJ Foreclosures: Stabilization at multi-year highs isn’t improvement

  1. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Foreclosures Hit High In 2009, Saw Spike In December -RealtyTrac

    Foreclosures spiked in December after four months of sequential declines, capping a record year for foreclosures, according to market researcher RealtyTrac.

    “As bad as the 2009 numbers are, they probably would have been worse if not for legislative and industry-related delays in processing delinquent loans,” said James J. Saccacio, chief executive of RealtyTrac.

    But those short-term factors–trial loan modifications, state legislation extending the foreclosure process and a clog in the foreclosure pipeline–couldn’t keep the foreclosure filings from hitting 349,519 in December, up 14% from November and 15% from a year earlier, when a similar spike occurred.

    The lifelines also are likely to be disappoint homeowners looking to permanently put off the inevitable.

    “In the long term, a massive supply of delinquent loans continues to loom over the housing market, and many of those delinquencies will end up in the foreclosure process in 2010 and beyond as lenders gradually work their way through the backlog,” Saccacio said.

  2. grim says:

    Corzine gives NJ a going away gift, from the Star Ledger:

    N.J. approves $121M in special aid to distressed cities

    The state approved more than $121 million for five distressed cities today, despite objections from Republicans who said the decision should wait until Gov.-elect Chris Christie takes office next week.

    Christie, who has criticized the move as an effort by lame-duck Gov. Jon Corzine to “keep shoveling money out the door” in the final hours of his administration, vowed to review the allocations once he becomes governor.

    “All options are on the table,” he said today during a Statehouse news conference.

    The Local Finance Board approved multi-million dollar grants for Jersey City, Union City, Paterson, Camden and Bridgeton. Mayors told panel members they needed the money to stave off steep tax hikes and prevent layoffs of public safety officials.

    State Sen. Steven Oroho (R-Sussex), a member of the budget panel, asked members to hold off on approving aid until Christie takes office. He said the state faces a $9 billion deficit.

    “My issue is, why is this happening today?” said Oroho.

  3. grim says:

    From the Record:

    Dramatic rise in NJ bankruptcies in 2009

    The number of bankruptcies in New Jersey surged 35 percent in 2009, with businesses filing at an even faster rate, as the recession battered the economy and unemployment shot up.

    Personal bankruptcies, which account for 96 percent of all state bankruptcies, were 35 percent higher last year than in 2008, according to figures released by the U.S. District Bankruptcy Court for New Jersey.

    Business bankruptcies rose by 46 percent to 1,550, or about 30 a week, figures show.

    In North Jersey, personal bankruptcies rose even faster than at the state level, with a jump of 56 percent in Bergen County over 2008 and a 39 percent leap in Passaic County.

    Business bankruptcies in Bergen soared 46 percent over 2008, and the number in Passaic remained flat.

    Eric R. Perkins, a Ridgewood bankruptcy attorney, said the struggle to pay off health care bills was a key driver in the rise of personal filings in 2009, as it was before the recession. But unemployment worsened the situation, as many people found themselves unable to pay their bills, and even employed people struggled to pay their mortgages.

    “What people do is they lose their job, or they are unable to pay their mortgage, they use their credit card to pay daily expenses” and deplete their savings and cash paying the mortgage or health care costs, he said. “At some point, they run out of cash and can’t do it anymore.”

  4. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Foreclosures May Rise to Record 3 Million U.S. Homes This Year

    A record 3 million U.S. homes will be repossessed by lenders this year as high unemployment and depressed home values leave borrowers unable to make their house payment or sell, according to a RealtyTrac Inc. forecast.

    Last year there were 2.82 million foreclosures, the most since RealtyTrac began compiling data in 2005. More than 4.5 million filings are expected this year, including default or auction notices and bank seizures, said Rick Sharga, senior vice president for the Irvine, California-based seller of default data and forecasts. There were 3.96 million filings in 2009.

    “This will be the peak year, and the main reasons are unemployment and house prices that have stabilized way below mortgage amounts,” Kenneth Rosen, chairman of the University of California’s Fisher Center for Real Estate and Urban Economics in Berkeley, said in an interview.

  5. sas says:

    so, what happens when the govt checks run out?


  6. grim says:

    What’s next, shanty towns in Jersey?

    From the NYT:

    Makeshift Homes Are Leveled in Suffolk County

    It would be easy to miss the narrow trail into the patch of woods that runs along Fifth Street here. Chunks of ice and snow muddy the path; gnarled, bare tree branches leave a passageway only a foot or two wide. Venturing a little farther, one begins to see the remnants of a home crudely made in an inhospitable area: discarded mattresses, rusty pans, artificial flowers, stuffed animals, a picture of Jesus.

    Up to 30 men had called these woods home until Monday morning, when the owners of the 26.6-acre property had the men’s tents torn apart. Skinny tree branches, which the men had used as posts for their plastic tarps, were now strewn about.

  7. sas says:

    “Drop in NYC Mass Transit Use Costs MTA $100M”
    – Fewer New York City area residents are taking trains, buses or driving into the city. Officials say the decline has cost the nation’s largest mass transit system more than $100 million in revenue between 2008 and 2009.


  8. grim says:

    This is the thread that should have gone live this morning.

    Unfortunately, big server crash last night.

    Hats off to the admins and techs over at WiredTree, who were able to get the site and servers up and running!

  9. sas says:

    “so, what happens when the govt checks run out?”

    tax, borrow, or print.

    like I said in the last thread, govt only gets that what it has to take.

    as long as military is strong, the tax, borrow, and prints can be endless.

    then the next question, what will be the dollar worth? need more? repeat above..

    Central Banking warfare model.

  10. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [9] sas,

    I am reminded of this:

    “Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or the looters who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce….

    Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men’s protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values… Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it becomes marked: ‘Account Overdrawn.”

  11. chicagofinance says:

    This is the thread that should have gone live this morning.

    These are the comments that should have gone on the top of this thread.

    Don’t get me wrong, the site being up is good news, but realize that a working site is nothing to cheer about. The rate of downtime for NJREReport did not decline in 2008, they increased by 1%. The best we can say is things aren’t getting worse, but stabilization at these levels over a long term would be disaster.


  12. make money says:


    Easy Albani.

  13. relo says:

    Best for whom?

    Mr. Otteau suggested that it was best not to obsess over home values in the short term.

  14. lisoosh says:

    Gosh, what a surprise. Who on earth could have seen this coming? (Cough, me, cough cough).


    Retail Sales Down In December, Puzzling Economists

    “Early reports from stores on the holiday shopping season looked good. But it turns out retail sales actually fell in December, leaving economists scratching their heads about the state of the recovery.

    conomists said the monthly decline could just be a blip and suggested looking at the past two months together, which would show spending rising modestly. But with unemployment high and credit tight, the report shows the recovery remains tentative.

    “I wasn’t expecting this. It’s a bit of a puzzle,” said Scott Hoyt, senior director of consumer economics at Moody’s Economy.com. “Consumer spending is growing very weakly, but the key thing is that it’s growing.”

    …The next few months still look scary for retailers. Stores are finding shoppers have little reason to buy now that the holidays have passed. January sales are off to a weaker-than-expected start, according to the International Council of Shopping Centers.”

  15. lisoosh says:



    Japanese Machinery Orders Unexpectedly Tumble 11.3%

  16. lisoosh says:

    There’s that “unexpectedly” word again:


    US jobless claims rose unexpectedly

    The US Department of Labor reported that initial jobless claims for the week ending January 9, 2010 rose unexpectedly to 444,000, an increase of 11,000 claims.
    Economists at large were forecasting on average a drop in initial jobless claims to 433,000.

  17. lisoosh says:

    Getting tired of endlessly surprised economists.

    Maybe it’s time to find some analysts with realistic expectations.

  18. House Whine says:

    I don’t think these economists live in the real world anyway. Their endless prattle about a jobless recovery and increased productivity in the workplace is really starting to grate on me. They don’t solve any problems or produce anything of value.

  19. bones deplume says:

    (17) Soosh

    Of course unexpectedly. What with all the Hope and Change, who woulda thunk that things would get worse?

  20. d2b says:

    Bad news is a bummer. At least we can count on the stock market going up everyday.

  21. Mocha says:

    “Bad news is a bummer. At least we can count on the stock market going up everyday.”

    One of the great mysteries…

  22. grim says:

    Good quote on Bloomberg this morning, something to the effect of:

    If a CEO issued a financial report in the same way an academic or economist issued their reports, they’d be put in prison.

  23. freedy says:

    you would have to be on speed balls to think that retail sales are good.

    go to the stores take a look around(x the
    gang members and posse)

    they are dying

  24. Mr Hyde says:


    no mystery. How else do TPTB engineer the pump and dump?

  25. grim says:

    Oh, and a word to the addicts, you aren’t alone.

    I think I must have gotten about 3 dozen emails this morning.

    Oh, and for those out there in IT/Systems Architecture/Ops, drop me a line, need to talk shop (I already hit a few of you folks up on this).

  26. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Manhattan Apartment Rents Drop 9.4% Amid Job Cuts

    Manhattan apartment rents dropped 9.4 percent in the fourth quarter from a year earlier as Wall Street jobs vanished in the recession.

    The median rent fell for all apartment sizes except two- bedrooms, which were little changed, according to a report today by broker Prudential Douglas Elliman Real Estate and appraiser Miller Samuel Inc. A separate tally by broker Citi-Habitats Inc. showed the average apartment price declined 7.3 percent for the year. The company didn’t report medians.

    New York City lost 25,200 finance jobs in the 12 months ended Nov. 30 and the unemployment rate climbed to 10 percent, curbing tenants’ appetite for bigger and more expensive apartments. Joblessness also forced landlords across the U.S. to cut prices as the nationwide vacancy rate reached a record 8 percent in the fourth quarter, New York-based research firm Reis Inc. said Jan. 7.

    “I don’t think you’re going to see a significant improvement, if any, in 2010, with unemployment in the 10 percent area,” Miller Samuel President and Chief Executive Officer Jonathan Miller said in a telephone interview.

    The effective decline in Manhattan apartment costs was likely greater than either broker reported because the figures don’t reflect concessions such as a free month’s rent, Miller said.

  27. PGC says:

    “A special tax on Stu and Gator. Oh, Nom and BC too. We must squeeze the overachievers of the world.”

    I forgot that only the GOPers are overacheivers.

    I think I worked out why you are so bitter aginst BO.

    It’s hard to swallow, come time to pay
    That taste on your tongue don’t easily slip away

  28. Pat says:

    JB, don’t fret. So many of my favorite sites were down today, I had to drive down to the used/donation bookstore that supports the library system here.

    That place was hopping. The old ladies in there told me they’ve been warned to expect a huge uptick in sales during the next year. Hmmm….wonder why. The County school budget was just uploaded and it looks really devastating for services, so maybe that’s it.

    I got a huge bag of new books (would’ve been $60) for 8 bucks. We used to have a $25 kid birthday party present budget. Now I just get books there –
    stuff from the “Walden Donations” section. It makes me wonder if the tax writeoff isn’t getting more appealing these days for retail.

    A nice gay couple stood next to me, watching me. One of them reached over, grabbed “The Tipping Point” and handed it to me before they walked away. He said, it’s too bad we can’t do this kind of stuff around here. I guess he missed the point of the bookstore. But I bought it anyway, and I’ll read it later.

    RE Avatar: watched in on the puter and wasn’t that impressed. Not like the addictive movies I watch again and again. Maybe if I saw it in 3D, it would’ve moved me.

  29. Mr Hyde says:


    political affiliation is irrelevant. You can’t have 20% of the populatin working to support the other 80%

  30. grim says:

    Once again this site gets it right, Cabela’s pulls out of Xanadu.

  31. grim says:

    grim says:
    November 14, 2008 at 9:13 am

    Patiently waiting to hear that Cabellas is pulling out of Xanadu…

    tbw says:
    January 7, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Speaking of tough economic times, will Meadowlands Xanadu ever open? I heard a rumor that Cabela’s is trying to get out of their agreement to open a store there. That would leave LegoLand, an indoor ski slope, BenniHannas, and Muvico Theaters. Wow.

    freedy says:
    August 3, 2009 at 7:10 pm

    who will wager that cabela’s never opens
    this location?

  32. grim says:

    From the Record:

    Cabela’s CEO says Xanadu store ‘highly unlikely’

    Cabela’s, a cornerstone partner of the Meadowlands Xanadu project since 2004, is unlikely to ever open a store at the site, the company’s chief executive told potential investors at an event in California on Wednesday night.

    The comments by Tommy Millner at the ICR Xchange — a two-day event at which dozens of businesses tout their assets to institutional portfolio managers, investment bankers and private equity leaders — raise serious questions about the viability of the struggling, $2 billion shopping and retail project.

    “We also have told the street that we have a store planned at the Xanadu project in East Rutherford, New Jersey,” CEO Tommy Millner told the audience at a resort in Dana Point, Calif., after first addressing other new store plans. “That has been a very, very troubled development, and it is highly unlikely that store will open either in 2010 — or probably ever. Not of our doing — of development problems.”

  33. grim says:

    Any tenant with decent counsel made sure their lease had provisions for renegotiation should an anchor tenant leave (co-tenancy clauses).

    Which means open season.

    Bye bye Xanadu, tear down the mistake in the Meadowlands.

  34. Pat says:

    Can NJ just offer some billionaire the chance to personally trash and implode that place for some ungodly amount?

  35. Pat says:

    Giant indoor zoo?

  36. grim says:

    Fat man needs to put in a casino, only way. Meadowlands needs help, think of the horses.

  37. Mocha says:

    I’d love to know what Xanadu’s designers were smoking when they took pen to paper. That building is ugly as sh*t.

  38. grim says:

    Remember when Pepsi was going to put their name on that Ferris wheel?


  39. Pat says:

    Oh, c’mon. I’ve seen worse. Just can’t find any pictures right now.


  40. Mocha says:

    Nice one grim

  41. Pat says:

    maybe we’ve all missed the point and the building is a giant 3-D version of one of those graphical eye puzzles. If we squint out towards the water, we’ll actually see a replica of an 18th century masterpice.

  42. PGC says:

    #29 Mr Hyde.

    Where do you get 20% from. Even if you said that 40% of filers pay no tax, which is a wrong figure to start with. Repeal the Bush tax cuts and the number of net payers and the tax revenue goes up. Close the tax loopholes expolited by the higher payers and the revenue figure goes up futher.

    Why not start with this one.

  43. Mocha says:

    #43 Pat,

    Looks practical if your living in Irvington.

  44. PGC says:

    I think with Xanadu I’ll stick to my prediction of a firesale to Hartz Mountain at pennies on the dollar.

  45. grim says:

    #47 – You know, that isn’t such a far out prediction. Wasn’t Hartz supposed to play some roll in that anyway? Or they lost out on bidding and threw a fit? Anyway, I think Sean would take the other side of your bet, I remember him being pretty negative on Hartz. Primarily due to the impact of some of the larger firms pulling out of Secaucus (we were talking about Liz at the time).

  46. freedy says:

    careful, they may bring them up from haiti, via teterboro,, NJ taxpayers will
    pay for the jets. all in one, house em
    put them on welfare they would fit right
    in NJ. NJ a welfare state for many years

  47. freedy says:

    Would be a great photo opp for the NJ pols

  48. njescapee says:

    Hartz did a lousy job in that Secaucus complex. employee parking was a nightmare.

  49. freedy says:

    haiti may never come back. perhaps it will
    just become a UN run state,or maybe we just annex it and that’s that .

  50. PGC says:

    #48 grim

    I think this guy would fit in here. I’ll have to watch the You Tube video


  51. grim says:


    Forward to 2:00 – You weren’t kidding.

  52. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:

    Nom, #10

    I’m finally working my way through Atlas Shrugged, so I recognize your citation :)

  53. NJGator says:

    Apologies if this has already been posted:

    To Lead Schools, Christie Picks Voucher Advocate

    TRENTON — The man once described by teachers’ union leaders as “the antithesis of everything we hold sacred about public education” was chosen to serve as state education commissioner by Governor-elect Christopher J. Christie on Wednesday.

    The nomination of Bret D. Schundler to the post underscored the governor’s determination to press ahead with his push for school vouchers, more charter schools and merit pay for teachers.

    It was the first selection by Mr. Christie to suggest even the possibility of a confirmation battle with Democrats, who control both houses of the Legislature. Thus far, the governor-elect has chosen nominees heavy on managerial experience, if lacking in drama or outsized personalities, and drawn bipartisan praise for his selections.

    Mr. Schundler, 50, was a favorite of the conservative wing of the Republican Party and a leading voice for school-choice advocates during his nine years as mayor of Jersey City, but he failed in two runs for governor, in 2001 and 2005.

    “We agree on the type of significant reform that needs to happen in our educational system here in New Jersey,” Mr. Christie said in making the announcement at the State House. “I want a strong, reasonable, bold leader who’s going to help me implement those policies.”


  54. safeashouses says:

    xanadu has a really hideous exterior. At least Port Newark serves a useful purpose.

    I also thought the new shopping trend in the US is to build a mixed use facility and call it a village or towne center with shops and restaurants on the bottom floors and apartments/condos above.

    Something like this.


  55. Outofstater says:

    Merit pay. Whoa. And the union is against it, because?? They know some of their members are incompetent?

  56. grim says:

    None too soon? I was led to believe we had the best system in the country, at least that is what the Realtors say.

    From the Star Ledger:

    More than 800 N.J. schools failed to meet No Child Left Behind standards

    As New Jersey continues to raise the bar for students, public schools are struggling to meet the new expectations: More than 36 percent of schools where students were tested last year failed to meet federal goals for performance on standardized tests, according to data released today by the state Department of Education.

    More than 800 public schools in New Jersey did not meet the targets set under the federal No Child Left Behind Act, an increase of about 150 schools from 2008, when almost 71 percent hit the mark. In all, students in 2,200 schools were tested last year.

  57. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    When freedom shivers in cold peril its always the patriots who first hear the call. Freedoms vanguard. The smoke in the air of our veterans at Pearl Harbor is always smelt first by the farmers. Who come from their simple homes to find the fire and fight. Because they know that sacred stuff resides in that wooden stock and blue steel. Something that gives the most common man the most uncommon freedom. When ordinary hands can posess such an extraordinary instrument. That measures the full measure of human dignity and liberty. Thats why those 5 words issue an irresitible call to us all, and we must.

    From my cold dead hands……..

  58. skep-tic says:


    “I’d love to know what Xanadu’s designers were smoking when they took pen to paper. That building is ugly as sh*t.”

    the first time I drove past it I literally laughed out loud. I thought people on this site were kidding when they said how ugly it was. No.

  59. Sean says:

    When Lehman went under so did Xanadu. Tom Barrack bought the place for cents on the dollar, he is a bottom feeder from the 80s S&L crisis, the type of turd that bought Neverland even though the place should be torched based upon all the young boys who suffered there.

    Perhaps they should make Xanadu a monument to Michael and consumerism.

  60. No stabilization of foreclosures for much longer. Another wave of crap is headed for the beach, and this one’s the killer.

  61. sas says:

    another Jedi mind trick..

    you see, the debate and hub bub these days is about “Should the federal government impose special fees on banks in order to recoup some of the bailout funds?”

    but, thats Jedi mind trick…

    they never should of received the cash money in the first place.


  62. sas says:

    man, how long are some of you going to be saps? day and day out…


  63. sas says:

    what is the time range for that word “stabilization”?


  64. sas says:


    “As New Jersey continues to raise the bar for students, public schools are struggling to meet the new expectations: More than 36 percent of schools where students were tested last year failed to meet federal goals for performance on standardized tests, according to data released today by the state Department of Education.”

    means nothing.

    you want your kid to be “standardized” ?

    u know what that really means?

    let me train you to be obedient, learn how to do one task, and one task only, suppress imagination & creativity, and destroy the family by intrusive homework…

    but don’t you worry not, for the wee lad will someday get a “good” job and in turn buy cheap widgits from China.


  65. grim (59)-

    Can’t wait to see that whole mess of inertia collide with Bret Schundler.

    Education will be the area where the worst fighting- and the most unintentional comedy- will happen.

  66. Al (60)-

    Is that from a Charlton Heston NRA convention speech?

    Because if that’s from you, I think you might need a little alone time to decompress.

  67. Pat says:

    Clot, inventory is being managed.

    FASB got like zilch comments letters on an accounting deferral issue for certain entities. So convoluted nobody cared. It’s a pathetic reminder and I hate that it was the accountant who fingered the big one and the accountant is being snuffed. This thing is growing so many tumors it’s like a giant cyst wrapped around the lower intestine of our financial system.

    This problem is going to be massaged until the only thing left is a big pile of mucus.

  68. sas says:

    is kettle still around?
    or is he in cognito?

    i can’t keep up with people’s aka’s.


  69. This mysterious “direct bidder” mysteriously didn’t partake of the trough full of 30-year slop proffered by the Treasury today. Gotta be our Chinese pals.

    “One topic that has caught the mainstream media’s attention is the recent surge in Direct Bid take down participation in Treasury auctions, which as we pointed out previously (3 Year auction, 10 Year auction), has jumped from sub 10% average well into the double digit arena. Today the Financial Times dedicates an entire article to questioning just who may be going all out in their purchases of Treasuries as a direct bidder. We suggest that this “bid” is none other than China funding Direct covert purchases of Treasuries as an extension of the Fed’s Quantitative Easing policy.”


  70. Pat says:

    bairen is safe,
    Kettle is hyde
    Clot is Code Red
    Pat is Pat
    The butler did it in the drawing room.

  71. Pat says:

    bairen is safe,
    Kettle is hyde
    Clot is Code Red
    Pat is Pat
    I don’t know where JB’s cousin rich went.
    The butler did it in the drawing room.

  72. Pat (70)-

    Fraud is now the acceptable response for any number of things that go wrong for the gubmint or private citizens.

  73. I think rich scored big on that Anti-Cost thing and is now living on a boat, anchored off Bimini.

  74. I ordered something from Anti-Cost, and all I got was a lead-painted Chinese trinket that fell apart when I took it out of the box. :)

  75. sas says:

    “Fraud is now the acceptable response for any number of things that go wrong for the gubmint or private citizens.”

    of course it is.. without it..it call collapses.

    crime that pays, stays.

    and some think the Haitians made a deal with the devil?
    ha, child’s play.

    baby.. you ain’t see nothing yet.

  76. Imagine Beavis & Butthead as Siamese twins:

    “With China FX reserve continuing to grow at a massive clip of about half a trillion per year, the country is stuck with great amounts of dollars that it does not need, yet can not sell without forcing a devaluation of the dollar. It is thus forced with only one possible “investment decision” – buying Treasuries. Yet due to reasons still undetermined, it is doing without notify the broader public. To assume that China has grown it FX reserves by a factor of 10 times what its UST purchases have been in the past half year is laughable.

    Which is why we make the claim that the Fed has now informally offloaded the Treasury portion of Quantitative Easing to China, which does so via the elusive Direct Bid. It also explains why the Fed has generically been much less worried about TSY purchases under Q.E. (a mere $300 billion out of a total $1.7 trillion in monetization). It does beg the question of just how much Chinese holdings of US Debt truly are, as this number is likely hundreds of billions higher than the disclosed $799 billion.

    Of course, if this is proven, it will expose the fact that China’s and the US’ central bank (and broadly economic) fates are tied closer than ever. Furthermore, monetary policy in one country will immediately be met with a comparable response by the other. Additionally, if there is indeed an implicit understanding between Bernanke and his Chinese colleagues, it means that not only the housing market (via Agency and MBS security purchases), but the Treasury market as well, are both manipulated beyond recognition and implies that broad securities are massively overvalued due to the stealth purchasing of core “riskless” assets by the US and China, as investors look higher in the cap structure for yield. Lastly, implications for world trade are great, as Asian countries will have to deal not only with the Chinese behemoth, which will constantly seek to keep its currency as low as possible, thus exacerbating the rest of Asia’s foreign trade balances, but that of the US itself. The immediate implication is that China (or the US for that matter) will likely not reflate their currencies out of their own volition any time in the foreseeable future. Look for a much weaker dollar in the coming months.”

  77. Long-dated US Treasuries = time-release crack

  78. sas says:

    speaking of Haiti.

    i spent sometime in Haiti.
    we had a gig down there in the early 90s.

    we actually did the opposite of what we were suppose to do down there. ha ha.. oh well…

    Most people would never goto La Saline. Me, I met some great people down there.


  79. sas (81)-

    So you went down and gave a little “help” to the Tonton Macoutes?

    All fun & games, until somebody pokes out an eye.

  80. sas says:

    well, I better hit the sack & get some shut eye.
    I gotta make the donuts.


  81. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Mmmmmmmmmmm donuts!


  82. chicagofinance says:

    85.still_looking aka Tan-Less says:
    January 14, 2010 at 11:30 pm
    Mmmmmmmmmmm donuts! sl

    The best of all time!

  83. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    scribe, 55

    I finished “Fountainhead” and have to start “Atlas Shrugged” but recognized Nom’s reference from other citations as well.

    I wonder if citizens of Rome had a clue as to how bad things were at the time.

    We have internet and blogs vs MSM to educate us so it’s painful to watch this slo-mo train wreck.

    It’s hard to picture what life 50yrs from now will be like.


  84. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    chifi, 86

    thanks… muahahahahahahhaha… donuts!


  85. chicagofinance says:

    87.still_looking aka Tan-Less says:
    January 14, 2010 at 11:38 pm
    It’s hard to picture what life 50yrs from now will be like. sl

  86. Pat says:

    I don’t think so. That’s too hopeful. Here’s something to put fear in hearts and nightmares in dreams:


    From: Scenes from the Nompound.

  87. grim says:

    Didn’t someone say the writedowns were over?

    From Housingwire:

    Height-of-Boom Subprime Performance Keeps Getting Worse: Moody’s

    The performance of recent subprime residential mortgage-backed securities (RMBS) continues to slide, prompting Moody’s Investors Service to revise its loss estimations on related securitizations and place thousands of tranches on review for downgrade. Furthermore, this development shows that the Obama administration’s effort to halt, or at least slow, the tide of mortgage defaults through government-supported programs remains largely unsuccessful, according to an email from Moody’s.

    The basket of mortgage backed securities that the credit rating agency reviewed for its report deal with loans originated during the recent boom years in housing finance. Moody’s is now projecting cumulative losses of 18.7% for 2005 vintage securitizations, 38.4% for 2006 RMBS and 48.1% for 2007 RMBS.

    It’s the latest indication that subprime problems still persist, and continue to drag the market. Such assets recently cost French investment bank Société Générale billions in write-downs, according to its preliminary Q409 earnings. As HousingWire publisher Paul Jackson previously opined, the subprime mess is far from passed, and the industry is suffering from deja vu, all over again.

  88. grim says:

    From the Star Ledger:

    N.J. real estate firm president who orchestrated $80M Ponzi scheme to be sentenced

    The founder and president of a New Jersey real estate firm who admitted orchestrating a massive Ponzi scheme that bilked more than $80 million from hundreds of people is scheduled to be sentenced today in federal court in Newark.

    Wayne Puff, 61, pleaded guilty in April to running the fraud between 1998 and 2005 through his firm, NJ Affordable Homes. He faces up to 20 years in prison.

    About 500 people, including 300 from New Jersey, fell for Puff’s promise of secure investments that purportedly paid between 15 percent and 22 percent annual returns. Some lost their life savings. One victim lost $10 million, prosecutors said.

  89. The Chinese would stand this guy Puff in front of a firing squad.

    Gotta love them for that.

  90. freedy says:

    grim: a discussion for the weekend.

    uses for xanadu

  91. Cindy says:

    I don’t know about uses for Xanadu but Pat’s 39 then Grim’s #40 – Cracked me up….

  92. Shore Guy says:

    Now, if I could get a seat I sat in during a Springsteen concert up there….

  93. Shore Guy says:


    Are you around or off at Jost?

  94. A.West says:

    Does this listing price seem out of touch?

    $1.1mn for a 4 bedroom, 2 full bath 2 half bath on a not so special lot?
    The house promises “hours of family enjoyment”. Monopoly is more fun in Basking Ridge? Of course it will not sell at that price, but even an 8 handle looks high to me. Can a town premium really be this large?

  95. Cindy says:


    D.C. Witness Protection Program

    “A financial inquiry hits the bankers, ignores the Fed and Fannie Mae”

  96. yikes says:

    go jets!

    i think they can pull it off.

    clot, what year do you think the US looks like the landscape in the ‘Book of Eli’


    opens this weekend. we should all go and take notes.

  97. Cindy says:


    “Financial Inquiry Widens to Include Past Regulators”

    Who knows…We’ll see…

  98. safeashouses says:

    #100 A. West

    The 2 best things I found in Basking Ridge were the kids library and the YMCA. The YMCA is incredible.

  99. lisoosh says:

    Cindy 101 – listening to Bloomberg radio when in the car I have been noticing a uniform line of spin from anybody and anything associated with finance – “the government made them do it”.

    Everyone is obviously at fault but the banking lobby is working overtime to paint themselves as victims.

    Well paid victims.

  100. lisoosh says:

    Cindy 101 – listening to Bloomberg radio when in the car I have been noticing a uniform line of spin from anybody and anything associated with finance – “the government made them do it”.

    Everyone is obviously at fault but the banking lobby is working overtime to paint themselves as victims.

    Well paid victims.

  101. lisoosh says:

    Cindy 101 – listening to Bloomberg radio when in the car I have been noticing a uniform line of spin from anybody and anything associated with finance – “the government made them do it”.

    Everyone is obviously at fault but the banking lobby is working overtime to paint themselves as victims.

    Well paid victims.

  102. lisoosh says:

    Cindy 101 – listening to Bloomberg radio when in the car I have been noticing a uniform line of spin from anybody and anything associated with finance – “the government made them do it”.

    Everyone is obviously at fault but the banking lobby is working overtime to paint themselves as victims.

    Well paid victims.

  103. lisoosh says:

    Cindy 101 – listening to Bloomberg radio when in the car I have been noticing a uniform line of spin from anybody and anything associated with finance – “the government made them do it”.

    Everyone is obviously at fault but the banking lobby is working overtime to paint themselves as victims.

    Well paid victims.

  104. lisoosh says:

    Cindy 101 – listening to Bloomberg radio when in the car I have been noticing a uniform line of spin from anybody and anything associated with finance – “the government made them do it”.

    Everyone is obviously at fault but the banking lobby is working overtime to paint themselves as victims.

    Well paid victims.

  105. lisoosh says:

    Cindy 101 – listening to Bloomberg radio when in the car I have been noticing a uniform line of spin from anybody and anything associated with finance – “the government made them do it”.

    Everyone is obviously at fault but the banking lobby is working overtime to paint themselves as victims.

    Well paid victims.

  106. bones deplume says:

    (90) Pat

    Funny stuff. If you spend any time at my sisters Nompound in Maine, you’d see that it is not too far removed from reality.

    And the current zeitgeist would be excellent for promoting the concept. I have to put pen to paper on the business plan.

  107. frank says:

    Citi to cap cash bonuses at $100K. Where’s the recession??

  108. lisoosh says:

    I did not push the button 20 times -computer glitch.

    Grim, you might want to remove a few.

  109. Jim says:

    Notice how B.O. says he is sending $100 million in aid to Haiti. Where is this money coming from? We are broke. I guess the printing presses will be running at full speed during 2010.

  110. Fortune:
    More and more states on budget brink


    “It’s surprising that political leaders don’t seem to be taking seriously the magnitude of the problems,” said Reschovsky. “You would hope it wouldn’t come to this, but it might take schools closing and programs being eliminated to create a sense of urgency.”

  111. Cindy says:

    Lisoosh – I just hope something comes out of the questioning…I want Glass-Steagall reinstated. I want the SEC to do their job etc., etc.

    They say now Dodd is giving up on regulatory reform. Shouldn’t that wait until they have some findings from the commission anyway?

    The commission would have to look into the entire mess. That requires them to go back to the Clinton administration and admitting wrong doing by all parties involved – we shall see…

  112. freedy says:

    cindy: you are right on. Bloom getting
    like CNBC. i have trouble listening anylonger. this guy keene,, becoming
    unbearable spin spin spin

  113. Cindy says:


    Stu @ 117

    The school closings, layoffs and pay cuts have begun…

    Check out this site…

  114. So, I have a completely off topic question. Does anyone here know much about divorce law in NJ?
    I’ve been reading and trying to figure out if we’re going to need to get a lawyer; how hard is it to do on your own, is it even advisable to do on your own, etc?
    We’d (I’m not the married one) both like to get this over with as quickly and painlessly as possible, but realize that may not be an option. So I’m trying to prepare.

  115. chicagofinance says:

    Did anyone see Santelli rip Finerman a new one last night on Fast Money?

  116. Cindy says:

    Stu – They have cut our extra duty pay by 5% – two furlough days up for a vote at the next board meeting – then come the pay cuts. We have only managed to cut 13.5 million and need to come up with 6 million more. (for now) Arnold still has to do the January revise.

    Non-union – no raises since 2005. So a 5% cut – salary would take us back to?….2003 I think….

    We are avoiding layoffs for now – no new rehires for two years…except @ specialized areas. Long-term subs for leaves…

    But the city of Clovis has done layoffs and 10% pay cuts.

    CA is so messed up…..

  117. grim says:


    This doesn’t have something to do with Facebook, does it?

  118. #123 – ….. erm….. yes….

  119. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [116] jim

    Aid to Haiti is a natural and expected response. I have no quibble with that.

    I would, however, be especially concerned if the aid is especially generous. I don’t think the admin. is that tone-deaf politcally, but one never knows.

    I am also predicting that there will be a Haitian diaspora to the US, made possible by the administration essentially throwing open the doors on “humanitarian” grounds. Look for ICE to be ordered by the adminstration to relax visa standards and make exceptions for Haitians, especially for those with family here. I expect a huge influx of haitian immigration over the next couple of years (relative to other nations).

  120. chicagofinance says:

    Go to minute 16 of 21:24…..

  121. Mr Hyde says:


    you know SAS is just a CIA agent provocateaur right? And then you have to go and rat me out to him?

    Just kidding ;)

  122. Jim says:

    126. Nom
    There has already been talk of moving some people to GITMO, but there is limited room there of course. I’d prepare for a large wave of Haitian refugees to come ashore as soon as the administration can get these new voters on a boat.

  123. grim says:

    Oh bother.

    Look up “we the people” or a similar service that will offer Pro Se assistance (but not counsel). If both parties are amicable and are willing to settle things without dispute, the process is largely just signatures and paperwork.

    I’m sure the lawyers here would argue otherwise. If you do take the legal route, it will cost a small fortune. If you’ve got to go to trial, an estimate in the tens of thousands isn’t out if the question.

  124. Thanks Grim, that’s really appreciated.

  125. safeashouses says:

    #121 tosh

    I read that 20% of divorces mention social networking sites as one of the main causes of divorce.

    I thought you predicted this was going to end badly?

  126. grim says:

    My suggestion doesn’t apply to cases where kids, alimony, homes, or complex assets (businesses) are involved.

  127. safeashouses says:

    #126 nom,

    Refugees = future cannon fodder?

  128. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [121] tosh,

    I am a bit confused. If you are not the married one, why are you in need of divorce advice?

    That aside, I would not advocate do-it-yourself divorce. Understand that there is no NJ version of Divorce for Dummies, and FWIW, I think that even in an amicable divorce, an attorney would be money well-spent to guide you through the process.

    There are a lot of complexities that divorce attorneys are adept at planning for, and a consultation can point you to a number of things you did not consider. Of course, as with anything, the complexity and difficulty depends on your situation: More assets, kids, etc., then more complexity.

    I think that the two parties could hire a single attorney to advise on how to craft a dissolution, but understand that the attorney would then be barred from actually appearing in the divorce action for either of the parties. But if you know that it won’t be contentious, that may be a good option.

    I can give you some guidance without creating an attorney-client relationship, but, as you can imagine, that is best done off-board.

  129. NJCoast says:

    The NJsoapoperareport.

  130. #132 – Look, it may. All I know is that I love her, and I always have. And if that is all I get in this world, just some more time being with a woman who makes me feel whole, who makes the world bearable, maybe it’s all worth it.
    There are no guarantees, no certitudes. I just know how I feel when I hold her and look in her eyes. I don’t want to live with the regret of not having at least tried to hold on to that for as long as possible.

  131. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [130] grim

    that is a simple solution for a simple case. Often, these are not so simple, and there are a number of things I can think of that Tosh might not have considered. There are also benefits in structuring the split that could be left on the table if not done right.

    Remember also, in divorce, nothing is really ever final. We have a saying that marriages may not last but divorce is forever. But some things can be made more final than others, and that is where experienced counsel comes in.

    Just as an example, you can buy a house without an attorney, but in a state like NJ, is that always wise?

  132. #135 – No – She’s married. She’s leaving her husband. That relationship was dead before I came along.

  133. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:


    Let’s hook tosh up with our boy Martini down in Avon….I hear he’s looking for work these days !!

  134. #135 – Nom – Thanks, I’ve just found out we have access to a lawyer (her cousin). But again, thank you.

  135. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [40] grim

    “Looks just like Port Newark”

    My god, it really does. Amazing.

  136. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [141] tosh

    good luck and keep your head down.

  137. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [141] tosh

    But understand that her cousin may know little more than you.

    Paradoxically, my journal note in law school was on equitable distribution in divorce; I analyzed a case in Mass. that purportedly reinforced the notion that equitable distributions can’t be relitigated. I concluded that they get re-litigated through the back door of alimony all the time and that this case did not stem the bleeding.

    If you want to talk, you have my email.

  138. #144 – Thanks Nom, I’ll keep you in mind.

  139. NJCoast says:

    Good sluething. Actually its the Mrs. that’s the attorney.

    Shore- Had to postpone to the 17th of Feb. I have few people to feed.

    Grim- Ani Difranco at the State Theatre New Brunswick on Feb.2. You interested?

  140. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [144] redux

    For grins, I did a keyword search in Google and my article came up first.

    Lexis charges $12.50 for someone to purchase it. I doubt I will ever see any of that (in fact, I doubt anyone will ever purchase it).

  141. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    120. Good find Cindy.

  142. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:


    you’re right – live with no regrets.

    good luck

  143. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Ani Solo, or accompanied ??

    The State Theatre is a beautiful venue.

  144. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    Tax tip of the day:

    Half-decent article on using your 401(k) to fund your small biz.


    FWIW, here is another tip for the recently unemployed: Roll your 401(k) into a Roth IRA. This takes a lot of discipline and the ability to pay the taxes due, but it could pay big dividends later.

    Assume that you are living on unemployment and have no meaningful job prospect this year. That puts you in the lowest tax brackets. Further, with the ability to roll money to a Roth IRA penalty-free, it means you pay tax now at a rate that will never be lower.

    I recommend investing most Roth money (really, any retirement money) in assets that will not produce preferred returns, like long term cap gains or qualified dividends. Instead, invest in things like limited partnerships, commodities, high yield bonds, etc. These are all taxed at higher marginal rates and if they are coming from your IRA or 401(k). Save preferred rate investments for non-retirement accounts.

    IRS Circular 230 Disclaimer: To ensure compliance with IRS Circular 230, any U.S. federal tax advice provided in this communication is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used by the recipient or any other taxpayer (i) for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the recipient or any other taxpayer, or (ii) in promoting, marketing or recommending to another party a partnership or other entity, investment plan, arrangement or other transaction addressed herein.

  145. confused in NJ says:

    Warning: Generic Drugs Not Always Equivalent to Name Brands
    September 18, 2008
    Beware the potential dangers of switching from a brand name to a generic drug. Lynn Nelson, of Tampa, learned that lesson the hard way three years ago.

    ”I switched from Synthroid to a generic and my thyroid went berserk,” said Nelson. She’s had hypo-thyroid condition for 25 years and had been taking Synthroid for all those years with no problems. When the generic version, levothyroxine sodium, came out about three years ago, her doctor switched her prescription.

    ”My hair started to fall out. I was exhausted all the time. I had body aches. I felt like I had the flu.” Nelson didn’t understand what was happening, so she jumped on the internet to do some research. Much to her shock she discovered the generic version of Synthroid had been recalled, but her doctor was never notified.

    “I was angry,” Nelson says. “I didn’t want to take the generic to begin with, because I never thought it was the equivalent.”

    The vast majority of generic drugs are safe and a less expensive alternative to brand named drugs. However, generic drugs are NOT the exact duplicate of the brand name and not all generic drugs are manufactured to the same exact standards of brand named drugs.


    Last month, the Federal Drug Administration (FDA) forced a recall of 65 different generic drugs manufactured by Actavis Totowa LLC. Actavis is one of the largest generic drug manufacturers in the United States. Regulators found that the company’s Little Falls, N.J. plant didn’t meet minimal safety standards for pills. Some of the pills that were recalled were potentially very dangerous such as Oxycodone. Click here for a full list of drugs in question.

    This week, the FDA announced that it will block imports of generic drugs manufactured by Ranbaxy Laboratories Ltd, a major manufacturer from India. The recall covers 30 generic medications such as Cipro, Alavert, and Claritin. Click here for a full list of the drugs in question.

    The FDA has been woefully understaffed for years. The stress ridden agency has struggled to keep its head above water to deal with safety problems. Last week the FDA increased its staff by 10%, but this only brings the agency back to where it was years ago. Without proper staffing safety problems are bound to continue to plague the FDA.

    Requirements for Generics

    To gain FDA approval, a generic drug, among other things, must contain the same active ingredients as the brand name, but NOT the same inactive ingredients. The generic must also be the bioequivalent of the brand name, but NOT the exact equivalent. For a drug to be the bioequivalent, it is supposed to deliver the same amount of the active ingredients in the same time as the original. This presents two serious health issues.

    Problems with Generic Drugs

    The first and most common problem is that the inactive ingredients are different. The inactive ingredients can affect how quickly the active ingredient is absorbed from your stomach to your body which in turn may affect how much medication you get. Also, some people may be allergic to the fillers and dyes used in the generic substitute.

    The second and more serious problem involves drugs with a Narrow Therapeutic Range or Index such as Synthroid, the drug Lynn Nelson takes. Synthroid is used to regulate the thyroid. Very small changes in absorption rates can cause the drug to be ineffective, as in Nelson’s case.

    “When the doctor tested me three weeks after taking the generic, it was like I was not taking a drug at all,” Nelson explained.

    Even though the generic form, levothyroxine sodium, may be the bioequivalent of the brand name, Synthroid, it is not the exact same drug, and while the absorption rate for the generic may be within FDA tolerances, it is not exactly the same.

    The American Thyroid Association (ATA) has surveyed thyroid experts and found that doctors believe the current FDA standards for the generic alternatives to Synthroid may lead to negative health effects in some patients.

    When Generics May Not Be Appropriate

    There are certain conditions when generic substitutes may not be appropriate. For example, hormones are usually taken in very small doses, so differences in brands could produce major swings in the response. Cortico-steroid creams fall under this umbrella. They are standardized by skin tests and although rated as bioequivalent, responses to the drug can vary for individuals. For a chart of other drug categories please go to the following link.


    According to Dr. Stevens Gans, Psychiatry Instructor at Harvard Medical School, there are precautions you should take if a generic drug has been prescribed.

    First, trust your body. If you feel bad, call your doctor.

    Second, note the manufacturer of your drug and check each time you re-fill your prescription to see if the manufacturer has changed. If a medication has changed from brand name to generic, or from one manufacturer to another, you may want to start taking the new pills while you still have a few of the old ones left. If you exhibit an allergic reaction or the new medication does not seem to have the same effect as the old one, switch back and see whether the allergic reaction disappears or the old medication works better. It’s important to let your prescribing doctor know if you are experiencing any problems. Obviously, if you have a severe reaction at any time to a medication, get help immediately.

    After Lynn Nelson’s bad experience with the generic drug for her thyroid condition, she returned to taking the brand name Synthroid and her condition stabilized. She says she now avoids generics like the plague. “You can’t tell me a drug that cost $50 to produce today and only $5 tomorrow meets the same quality and standards. I am not a fan.”

  146. lostinny aka i forgot says:

    I’ll throw a tax question out there. If you get (I don’t know exactly what it’s called) a one time lump sum from social security as a survivor’s benefit, is that taxable income?

  147. theo says:

    I’m confused, why does Tosh’s girl need to get divorced for them to be together?

  148. #154 – theo – My girl is currently and legally someone else’s wife. And yes, I know how bad I look.

  149. lostinny aka i forgot says:

    155 Tosh
    Is her husband willing to let go that easily?

  150. John says:

    I am confused, you are milking the cow for free and now you want to buy the cow?

  151. #156 – I don’t know… I hope so, but am assuming not. He has a basket full of problems regardless of the relationship, and could, possibly not contest a thing.

  152. relo says:

    160: Those guys are usually very reasonable. Good luck.

    According to Bazooka Joe, never fight a man that has nothing to lose.

  153. #158 – John, this isn’t about milking a cow and is about a lot more than physical a relationship. She wont cheat and I can’t ask her to do something like that. She would feel guilty, how could I possibly ask her to bear that for me? To be honest I would feel pretty bad about it as much as I want her. She’s leaving him, we both know that.
    It is the way it has to be.

  154. Essex says:

    121….Tosh, She needs to move out and establish another residency. I believe that part is essential.

  155. #162 – I think it is… the problem is we’re both so caught up in this emotional whirlwind of it, we both know we need a 3rd party. She’d contacting a bunch of people now.
    Have I mentioned how much weight I’ve lost recently?

  156. Pat says:

    re: living with no regrets.

    Sometimes, for me, it’s weighing the regrets and choosing carefully which regrets to drag around with me for the rest of my life. Too bad regrets don’t always weigh the same with time and hindsight.

    I once had to make a horrific choice. In my haste, I made the choice without full information, without much investigation, and without full understanding of the information that I did possess. Lost my hair, got sick over it, and nearly lost my sanity.

    Years later, the regret is not about the choice I made, but at my own behavior.

    Your happiness outcome will be changed by your behavior until the person you want is independently free to be your equal. Can you completely stand down right now, limit communication, and as Nom put it – keep your head down?

    Get out of the divorce process.

  157. lostinny aka i forgot says:

    Yoy say it’s not physical because she won’t cheat. But if she feels about you the way you do about her, there is some type of betrayal there. I mean, some people feel they would rather have their spouse have a one night stand that isn’t emotionally involved, then fall for someone else.

  158. Sean says:

    Tosh – playing devil’s advocate here, so don’t take too much offense in what I say.

    You do realize that you’ve allowed yourself to fall in love with a woman who has little integrity. A woman who cheats on her husband is a woman that no man can ever fully trust, if she’ll do it to him, she’ll do it to you.

    Perhaps it will help you to understand that both you and her husband are being “played”. Does she tell him that you and her are “just friends” to keep him from getting angry or does she not speak to him at all?

    Just remember that while the heart makes us do stupid things you need to clear your head before you go rushing down the isle. I agree with John on this the milk is free right now. Don’t go and ruin a “good time” and rush down the isle.

  159. #164 – Get out of the divorce process.

    yeah, I know. I may have no choice. I can limit all communication and stop for a while, I just really don’t want to.

  160. Essex says:

    Tosh….careful there man….sounds like you get the short end of this stick. Not worth it.

  161. #166 – Sean – No offenses are taken, I’ve already run through all this in my head. I understand everything you’ve said.
    She doesn’t speak to him at all…

  162. Essex says:

    I have had more babes than John has had hot meals.

  163. #165 – lost there is some type of betrayal there

    There is, we both know that. It’s a complete mess.

  164. Essex says:

    Tosh…once she leaves him (if she ever does)….be ready for the old….”OMG You have been so great through all of this…but after what I have been through I am just not ready for a relationship…..”

  165. #172 – I should note here, that we’ve known each other on and off for about 25 years… we had a previous relationship and had planned on getting married but life took us in different directions. She’s not a complete unknown to me.

  166. Whatever you decide to do Tosh, just remember…it’s not worth sneaking past security at Terminal C. Especially, when the Gator family is there.

  167. Sean says:

    You my friend Tosh are just a emotional crutch to this woman right now. I agree with Essex it could be temporary because she is stressed over her marriage and life.

    Clear you head man, don’t rush into things like this. I would suggest a night out at Scores to clear your head. Meet me, John and Grim there at 9PM and bring several thousand in cash, you will need it to buy us drinks and dances.

  168. relo says:

    170: Wilt, is that you? I thought you had passed.

  169. John says:

    Tosh, even better let Sean, Me and Grim take a shot a bagging her in a bar, if we succeed you will find out you are not Mr. Right but Mr. Right Now.

  170. #175 – I’m aware of that as well

  171. relo says:

    175: In.

  172. Pat says:

    I NOW hate Facebook on a completely different level.

    It currently holds 7 circles of hell for me.

  173. Pat says:

    If FB were a building, would it resemble Xanadu?

  174. GTG at scores? Make it rain baby!

  175. Bystander says:


    Went through it recently enough. There are too many factors to give a specific answer but it can be done at a reasonable cost. It is critical to have a low level of animosity and willingness to play fair with one another. Ours was easier because no kids and we did not split 401Ks. You could try a mediator over a lawyer. They can’t provide legal advice but they can prepare the PSA for a lawyer to review. Some lawyers will just review the PSA for a small(er) fee. We tried mediation but I found it expensive ($150/hr) and pointless after several hours. We had employee stock questions and he could not provide legal guidance. Unfortunately we ended up going the lawyer route. Unbelievable cost – the cheapest lawyer I could get was $250/hr. Karma can be a b*itch. She wanted out and her lawyer told her to pay me out on the house. She assumed the mortgage on a depreciating asset and probably losing $500 a month renting out. Life does get better afterwards.

  176. Zack says:


    Tosh – Grad your b@lls and repeat the following 3 times “I have brass b@lls, and I will not let this affect my life”

  177. Zack says:


    Tosh – Grad your b@lls and repeat the following 3 times “I have brass b@lls, and I will not let this affect my life”

  178. John says:

    Sarbanes Compliance Operations Risk Event System is my IT toll and Bar.

  179. Tosh,

    Before you forget, make sure you include your cameras and lenses in the prenupt!

  180. Pat says:

    We do love a good John story around here after a thread like this.

    What say you, friend?

  181. #187- lol.
    Look people, we aren’t instantly getting married, neither of us is that stupid. She needs to leave the current husband before we can be together.

  182. Pat says:

    You will never know that she chose YOU unless you walk – right now. None of this separation, move in. If you want real happiness for a lifetime, tell her goodbye until she comes to you post-divorce.

  183. Pat says:

    John? Lay off the lunch cart and write us something.

  184. #190 – ….I know. This may be a very long weekend.

  185. meter says:

    The Fountainhead is a masterpiece. Atlas Shrugged, not so much.

  186. relo says:

    NOMB and I do wish you both luck, but this:

    I just know how I feel when I hold her and look in her eyes.

    is incongruous with this:

    She wont cheat and I can’t ask her to do something like that.

  187. meter says:

    @92 – that’s pocket change.

    Google “American Business Financial Services.”

    $750 million lost/stolen and the FBI won’t lift a finger.

    The principals have moved onto other real estate ventures in NJ and PA. Again, the FBI isn’t interested.

    They’re a total dog and pony show, nothing more.

  188. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [163] tosh

    “Have I mentioned how much weight I’ve lost recently?”

    So there is some benefit after all.

    The Tosh Diet!

    Write that book. I smell money!

  189. #194 – It would take nothing for me to push her into doing something. It’s not like we don’t want to, or haven’t almost…
    She’s leaving him, why compound that hurt with cheating.

  190. #196 – Write that book. I smell money!

    1 – Become sleepless emotional wreck.
    2 – Start hitting the treadmill for 5 miles a day every day to block out some of said mess.
    3 – got to 2
    4 – Bang! You’re at 132 pounds again. Enjoy finding pants that fit.

  191. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [198] tosh

    In the words of U.S. Senator John Blutarsky:

    “My advice to you is to drink heavily.”

  192. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:


    It occurs to me that I had been through this before.

    Not willing to dish here, but email me if you want some free advice. It will at least be worth what you paid.

  193. #200 – nom – Email sent. Thanks

  194. make money says:


    Sorry, to hear what you’re going through man. Just remember where she gonna find another Tosh?

    You’re the man!!!

    However, if she comes back begging for forgivness, on her knees, then just pull out the snake and accept her back. She’ll be great to you for the rest of her life.
    Save a look/expression on your face whenever she gets difficult/demanding/disrespecting… etc and then just give her the look and she’ll go back in her place.

    I’m talking from experience.

  195. #202 – Make – lol – I know what you mean.

  196. Well I need to lose some weight for sure. How can I make this work with me and Gator? D’oh! I don’t like where this is going.

  197. John says:

    Pat, I don’t believe in doing it with married women, something to do with having sisters. But if the husband is cool. Well that is a another story.

    Anyhow, was at a little place I like to call Hedonism I was at, so after lunch I walk over to the bar on the nude (not prude) side by myself. Grab a drink and head to Jacquizi, there is a pretty women in there and a guy a few years older on the other end, so after ten minutes of chatting, she was some high-powered exec from Chicago who just got there for the “lifestyles” convention (look it up what the “lifestyle is), she says her room is right near jacquizi so I say lets hit it, interesting enough everyone is nude, so the guy in the corner of jacquizi gets up and starts walking with us and I say “what up” Kinda like on the show Entourage “Tell Sloan, I said what up”, anyhow she tells me it is her husband, he has a problem where he can’t get it up unless he see someone doing his wife first. I said, ok but he ain’t going to be in the bed or anywhere near me, she said no problem. So we go to room and this lady had blinds shut and candles lit and bed turned down, her husband goes into closet with a chair and sits down to peak through the little wicker lats on the door. I start going to town on her and this crazy lady is yelling at the top of her voice “F@@K me Hard” and “Jamm that co&K into me” at the top of her voice, mind you it is only one pm in the afternoon. So I start screaming back stuff superloud, anyhow I rocked her world and it had a screaming end, I fall back and she goes almost right away, why don’t you use my shower to clean up. I give myself a quick shower come out and her husband is standing there with a Strawberry Dacuiri and hands it to me and says good job and his wife goes you better hurry up and catch up with your friends as my husband is ready to go. So spunk and all that superfreak husband was good to go, hey whatever rocks his boat. When I came out of room, three jamaican cleaning ladies were standing by door, I know they were thinking crazy white people.

  198. John,

    You have watched way too many episodes of Lady Chatterley haven’t you.

    None the less, quite enjoyable.

  199. Pat says:

    how do you know he wasn’t simply the cameraman.

  200. Pat says:

    I wasn’t looking for the John-as-the-innocent, naive toy story.

    I want the kind with the Dart wrapped around the tree and Billy Joel dragging you away by your designer pants while the explosion rocks LI.

  201. Pat says:

    BTW, guys, what does it feel like to peak through a lat?

  202. lisoosh says:

    tosh – wow. Good luck.

    Not much more to add, except to back up those who say to take a step back until she is properly free.

  203. NJCoast says:


    Beware of zombie marriages. Just when you think they’re dead, dead, dead- they’re not.

  204. make money says:


    You got more (fiction)stories then Walt Disney.

    maybe you should try njwishreport

  205. John says:

    Pat, actually a buddy from college lived next door to Billy Joel once, the house on the cover of the Glass House album was actually Billy Joels house. We were over there when he was married to Christy Brinkly and she was sunbathing next door and we got a look at her with no make-up on. That lady is a mess of freckles all over her face, she must cake it on every morning. When Christie roller over and I saw her face I lost my hard-on quicker than if you hit my pecker with a ball-peen hammer.

  206. John says:

    Sadly, that is a true story. Stangest vacation ever, went their as an award to myself after my MBA. Went by myself it was swingers week and 5-10 single NY Jets players were there. JC those guys are hung like donkeys. I tried to not visit nude beach anytime they were on it, I have some pretty good white sausauge but I don’t know how they even run with those monsters between their legs.

    make money says:
    January 15, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    You got more (fiction)stories then Walt Disney.

    maybe you should try njwishreport

  207. Escape from NJ says:

    (206) Mother Goose strikes again. Very entertaining.

  208. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    What the heck is going on in here?

    We are approaching global economic armageddon and I am reading about love affairs?

    You should be filling sand bags, cleaning your weapons, and storing supplies.

    Priorities people. This sentimental nonsense makes me sick.

    PS. Fastest way to wealth is avoiding mid life divorce.

  209. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:

    Pat, #210

    I missed that John story. Drat!

  210. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [218] al

    Perhaps John can integrate those themes of armageddon and unrequited illicit love.

  211. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:


    to what extent do you see this woman in real time vs. Facebook?

  212. lostinny aka i forgot says:


  213. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [206] John

    Why do all your stories have to be more interesting than mine? My married women stories aren’t nearly as colorful.

  214. Painhrtz says:

    Just once I would like a John story to end with “So we played bridge until 6 PM, shared a light port, and I returned home for the evening satisfied with the conversation and her company…

    Never change John, you remind me of the penhouse forums I read as a teen.

  215. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:

    Nom has married women stories?

    Share ’em! :)

  216. Mocha says:

    “Beware of zombie marriages. Just when you think they’re dead, dead, dead- they’re not.”

    Nothing like a little jealousy to rekindle a dead marriage. Beware.

  217. #221 – She’s married so only a few hours of face to face time in a week. We talk continuously through the day, I’d say 3+ hours a day.
    No FB contact in a while.

  218. Mocha says:

    CA exploring leagalizing pot for recreational use. I wonder what having a pot shop around the corner does for property values.

  219. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:

    3+ hours a day of talk, but she’s married, so she actually sees you only a couple of hours each week?

    tosh, to me, that sounds like she’s more married than she’s letting on …

    if the marriage really is over, why isn’t she moving out?

  220. #229 – There are a few more complications than I’ve disclosed, ones I’d rather not.

  221. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [225] scribe,


    Sorry, if I am going to divulge details of my days when I dogged around in the Bay State, it won’t be here.

    Get me drunk at a GTG sometime.

    I will say that I was, and am, surprised at the willingness of unhappy wives to hook up. Gives one pause, to be sure.

  222. John says:

    Tosh, as long as you are stealing wive’s can you take all of our wive’s off are hands?

  223. #232 – As long as you’re paying alimony.

  224. John says:

    Jan. 15 (Bloomberg) — JPMorgan Chase & Co., the second- largest U.S. bank, set aside $9.3 billion for compensation and benefits for investment-bank employees in 2009, enough to pay each worker in that unit $378,600.

    Now that is a recession. The SOBs kept the nickle a share dividend however.

  225. Pat says:

    No way, John. Keep your wife problems to yourself. You made your bed.

    Stick with Ted puking and Christy with the freckles and the Mexican turds.

  226. Jim says:

    Let me play devil’s advocate here. Are you sure this woman isn’t an illegal and is just trying to trick you into marriage so she can stay in the land of the big PX? Is she really married? You say she won’t cheat, then what is she really after? This might be some type of scam.

  227. make money says:


    My wife attends a Gym on the corner of 23rd and Lex. Just show up around 10:00AM each morning and look for a hot 30 yr old blonde and scream out “these fcuking Albanians” and she’ll start a conversation agreeing with you.

    Let me know how it goes and I’ll buy you a house in BC.

  228. #236 – I’m positive she isn’t an illegal. She’s not tricking me into anything.

    Again, I’m holding certain things back.

  229. #237 – Thanks make, I really needed that laugh.

  230. NJCoast says:


    Did you go to the fridge during the part where Tosh said he has known his paramour for 25 years? Next on As The NJRER Turns…….

  231. #240 – Thanks Coast – The stuff I’m not saying would make even more soap-opera, you really have no idea.

  232. Pat says:

    you’re wallowing because you’ve made your decision. Go on and do it.

  233. #242 – I am, thank you for being honest.

  234. Jim says:

    Perhaps he has known her but does he REALLY know her?

  235. #244 – Perhaps he has known her but does he REALLY know her?

    Every little inch.

  236. Pat says:

    and don’t think other people here are all righteous and crap.

    I bet every one of us has dirt. Dirt that would make your ‘stuff’ sound like the theme to the Waltons.

  237. John says:

    Yea he has know for 25 years he must be marrying her for her pension payments, that must be one old wrinkly hairy tuna taco.

    NJCoast says:
    January 15, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Did you go to the fridge during the part where Tosh said he has known his paramour for 25 years? Next on As The NJRER Turns…….

  238. #246 – Thanks Pat. And thanks to everyone else, I really really really needed to let all of that out.

    It occurs to me that I’ve been posting here for 4 years. In that time about the only things I’ve ever disclosed about my private life are an interest in cars and photography. And there I go letting out really intimate stuff in one shot.

    Other interesting personal facts about me; I’m a WTC survivor. I was on the 50th fl of tower 1, and spent about 5 years living with PTSD.
    Also, I have blue eyes and like cats.

  239. Aplogies to Grim for being an attention wh0r3 today…

  240. lostinny aka i forgot says:

    248 Tosh

    Also, I have blue eyes and like cats.

    I thought you were short, Asian and skinny. :)

  241. relo says:

    248: You do live dangerously. Have at it.

  242. #250 – Well, medium sized and skinny. Even I acknowledge I look very very Irish.

  243. zieba says:

    A lot of top 10 list material being thrown around today!

    I think you guys got as much as you can out of Tosh on a public board.

    I used to pass 23/lex gym on my way to school all the time. Good times.

  244. Jim says:

    I just received an Olympus E-P1 camera from B&H Photo. It is a super cool camera in the new 3/4 digital format. If you are into cameras you have to get this one. Now but to the soap…

  245. #254 – I’ve been looking at it. I love the rangefinder format size. I’m shopping a large format right now.
    I think Canon and Nikon both have stuff in development in the same style. Might have to wait and little longer.

  246. Tosh,

    By any chance, is that WILF of yours named Biluva?

  247. Pat says:

    What’s the best for utb videos, driving while filming, but not too expensive.

    My first upload actually did some good, so I might need to continue this.

  248. #257 – Have you looked at dpreview.com ?

    I work mostly with older film cameras. I’m probably not the most informed about some of the super pocket sized digital cams.

  249. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    any kids involved in this mess?

  250. relo says:

    248; Losing weight. Losing sleep. Willing to withstand hairy taco references. Yep, sounds like you needed to let it out.

  251. Pat says:

    Nah, no research. Usually on products, I just come to blogs like this, and when the same name comes up three times that’s the thing I get.

    What I save on consumer reports, I can spend on the product if it’s a little more than I planned to spend.

  252. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    261. tosh I think that is a yes?

  253. #262 – Canons are the usual go to in the digi cam realm. I know the G11 is good, I almost got one, the A10 is very interesting and I know a ton of people with the Powershot A590/580 who like them very much and get good results.

  254. Mr Hyde says:


    Dirt? what dirt?

    Hookers and blow dont count as dirt, ask john. Besides, Mrs Hyde’s habit is more expensive then mine!

  255. #263 – There’s a 2 yr old.
    She hasn’t had a license in a few years so is dependent upon her husband for transport… that complicates things
    Also… there is the matter of the emotional stability of her husband when push comes to shove.

  256. Sean says:

    My FIL was layed off again. 2nd time in a year. Going to be a long year………

  257. relo says:


    Does the camera talk have anything to do w/ your post @ 211?

  258. Pat says:

    I actually filmed the first thing with a camera I got for free from dell. A Samsung s860. Results looks depressing, like everything is a little overcast and old Hitchcock quality, which is what I was going for, so it worked.

  259. Mr Hyde says:


    Glad you could vent and I am sure you are boosting grim’s # of hits for the day, but do yourself a favor and step away from the keyboard.

    I mean this in the nicest manner, but you never know when someone might recognize your handle of typing style and see some personal dirt you might not what spread.

    Its time to take it to personal e-mail with whomever you choose.

  260. Pat says:

    I actually filmed the first thing with one I got for free from D3ll. A S@msung s 860. Results look depressing, like overcast and old Hitchc0ck quality, which is what I was going for, so it worked. But when I try to film happy events, they seem like the beginning of a horror movie and you’re just waiting for the Undead to show up and eat everyone in the vid.

  261. #270 – You’re right, enough on part.

  262. Mr Hyde says:


    Dont forget the internet is forever, all hail goggle cache, a deep search on your user name could raise this dirt from the past if someone did a search on your user name at some point in the future.

  263. Sean says:

    tosh – seriously you are out of your mind, go out and find some fun loving girl to take your mind off of this.

    You are just a replacement for what she isn’t getting at home.

  264. NJCoast says:


    There’s a 2 year old child involved? Game changer. No more jokes.

  265. #273 – Yeah, I know better too… I was enjoying the confessional, it’s the only time I’ve talked about it.

  266. relo says:


    Married, check
    kid, check
    unstable spouse, check

    Oh, and she doesn’t drive. (dare I ask why?)

    So, what’s the complication?

    Dude, if John weren’t waxing nostalgic today, he’d say hit it and quit it.

  267. Mr Hyde says:


    feel free to confess, just do so as Bi, and through a proxy to hide your IP.

  268. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    267. tosh
    the fact that that wasn’t mentioned yet tells me that you have lost all perspective in this. None of you count more than that kid. Are you going to love that kid even if it loves what is sure to become your enemy #1 and hates you no matter how well you treat them? She needs to get her own ducks lined up and get a drivers license and a car. Blood runs thick, you’ll be at that kid’s HS graduation and he/she will be hating you.

  269. Pat says:

    stop trying to scare tosh.

    Companies and execs are on to the fact [three years too late] that blogs actually don’t decrease ee productivity and they serve to prevent the office nonsense.

    As long as the blog has a decent moderator, then the blog serves the function and has some training & light bulb effects. Exercise and physical detriment.

  270. Mr Hyde says:


    I wasnt referring to companies digging, so much as having your personal dirt recorded and open to the world (per se).

    If you dont want it in print then keep the communication analog (i.e. verbal or pen/paper followed by lighted)

  271. Pat says:

    If I were managing an office, I’d make every employee read certain blogs throughout the day.

    At the end of one year, the ones I could double their workload (creativity) with no decrease in webtime, I’d keep.

  272. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [247] john

    A new low, even for John!

  273. Tosh,

    All jokes aside, my honest unbiased opinion is that the pain you will feel breaking up with her now will pale in comparison to the self guilt you will feel when she dumps you later.

    I can simply sense from your language and your willingness to share your situation with this blog that you are looking for some confirmation bias. I can sympathize with what you are feeling as I was once foolishly dependent, but I am forever indebted to a friend who helped me realize this.

    Without the 2-year old, you probably should have run from her. Then add in the potentially abusive and unstable husband? Oh my! You should immediatelly download some Cat Stevens and some old Elvis Costello from iTunes and then do the dirty deed.

    Sorry to be so blunt dude, but I’ve been there.

  274. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    Also, lets look at this from a “for HER own good” perspective. She doesnt need a rescue from another man, in fact I’d assume that being dependent on men is what got her in this mess in the first place. She will never be happy until she gets her own footing and independence, part of that is being a great mother who makes good decisions. This isn’t shaping up to be one of those. Sounds like the marriage should breakup, doesn’t translate to *you should rescue her*.

  275. #285 – ding ding ding ding

  276. alright I’ll go back to being quiet.

  277. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    tosh, I’m done being mean! I do feel for you, I just took off my beligerent hat and wish I could buy you a drink and tell you how you deserve better in this life, man!
    You survived something horrific, time for your life to take on a sunnier path.

  278. Barb is absolutely right. Look at it this way. She had a two-year old with a man she feels is unstable. Do you truly think the feelings she has for you now are any different than the feelings she had for him then? Where does that leave you in three years?

  279. Mr Hyde says:


    itmitate the following (minus the stinky body was) then report back to the blog. Should help your perspective


  280. Jim says:

    Hey, how about those Jets?

  281. Mr Hyde says:

    oh and scores GTG


  282. Alap says:

    Possible “Get Ready For a Weird Game” Omen: Jets owner Woody Johnson recently lost his daughter, Casey Johnson, who reportedly struggled with drug/alcohol problems. Casey Johnson was engaged to Tila Tequila, who accused Chargers linebacker Shawne Merriman of domestic violence when they were dating back in August. Now the Jets and Chargers are playing in Round 2. Any game that features a prominent tie to Tila Tequila HAS to play out strangely, right?

  283. Nice Jim.

    I’m done too. It’s not fun being the thick-skinned one.

    So anyone doing anything interest to celebrate MLK? Damn, I forgot! I don’t work for the welfare state.

  284. Mr Hyde says:


    Didnt MLK say something about not judging a man by his skin tone? Yet every day we have to verify what your skin tone is to determine what resources or treatment you receive?

  285. Mr Hyde says:

    SO when is the Scores GTG? All races creeds, and sexes are welcome

    A Scores MLK celebration of sorts

  286. Pat says:

    Actually, we’re doing the torture thing down in DC on the mall.

    As in dealing with the crowds.

  287. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    Local tax news of the day:

    New Jersey Acting Governor Signs Measure
    Raising Penalty for Paying Workers Off Books

    PHILADELPHIA—A New Jersey employer that repeatedly violates wage and tax reporting rules and fails to pay required wages, benefits, or taxes may have its business license suspended or revoked, as a result of legislation (S. 2773) signed by acting Gov. Stephen Sweeney (D) Jan. 14.

    “When an employer pays one of their employees ‘under the table,’ they’re actually undermining the state’s unemployment and disability safety nets and undercutting employers who play by the rules,” Sweeney said in a statement. “Rather than turning a blind eye to bad business practices, New Jersey regulators ought to be enforcing tough penalties for repeat offenders of the state’s wage, benefit, and reporting laws.”

    Sweeney was the prime sponsor of the bill and, as president of the state Senate, is serving as acting governor while Gov. Jon S. Corzine (D) is out of the state on vacation. . . .

    Another reason to move your biz out of Jersey.

  288. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    Bonus! More Local Tax News of the Day:

    Two Former UBS Clients Sentenced
    For Foreign Accounts With Bank

    The Internal Revenue Service has announced that taxpayers from New Jersey and Washington, who pleaded guilty to federal tax charges in relation to foreign bank accounts with UBS AG, were sentenced in early January. . . .

    Juergen Homann of Saddle River, N.J., was sentenced to five years probation and was ordered to pay a $60,000 fine by a judge for the U.S. District Court for the District of New Jersey Jan. 6. Homann pleaded guilty in September 2009 to failing to file a report of foreign bank or financial accounts and accepted responsibility for concealing more than $5 million in a UBS Swiss bank account.

  289. Essex says:

    249. Free Therapy….where can u beat it?

  290. Sean says:

    re: #298 – Comrade under the table employment is what has broken heath care in NJ, and forced many Hospitals to shut down. After all there are around 500k illegal undocumented workers in this state, who use the emergency room as their primary care.

    I see dozens of under the table employees every day. From the Dunkin Donuts owner who brings over people from his village back home in India to work in his shops to the car wash I went to today, that was staffed with a dozen or so Tlaxcala Mexicans.

    It needs to be fixed, going after the employer who is lining his pockets and forcing us all to pay higher taxes is the only way to do it.

  291. RayC says:

    Alap says:
    January 15, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Possible “Get Ready For a Weird Game” ….

    Unless you are Bill Simmons, this needs a footnote.

  292. relo says:

    303: Oh, no wonder I didn’t find it funny.

  293. Alap says:

    Sorry, I posted in a hurry during the awkward “quick change the subject” phase we went through earlier, and someone mentioned the jets.

    But yes that is not mine, that was the sports guy.

  294. Sean says:

    Did Merriman send Sanchecz a “lights out” t-shirt?

  295. Pat says:

    Awkward AND obvious?

    That could never describe LOD.

  296. Anon E. Moose says:


    A10s with Cannons? Now we’re talking!


  297. Essex says:

    BTW OT: Recall Obama….he sucks.

  298. John says:

    Relo anyone trying to “hit it” with a married women with a two year old should be beaten with a bat, castirated and buried in the new meadowlands stadium.

  299. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    JP Morgan just dished out 9.3 billion in bonuses.

    On a per employee basis, JPMorgan investment bankers, sales staff and traders, on average, are set to make about $379,000 for 2009, up more than $100,000 from 2008, when the broader financial sector was mired in crisis.

    I love corporate fascism. In your face with the money baby.

  300. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose 308,

    MMMMM nothing like the smell of DU dust and charred armor vehicles in the morning.

  301. Essex says:

    310. Why John? If hubby aint delivering the goods…..

  302. Essex says:

    311. More like corporate welfare….they are laughing at us right now.

  303. freedy says:

    they sure are laughing at us, i can see
    the cigar smoke,, as they sip the cocktails. what a screw job on the american taxpayer.

    getting worse by the day ,, non stop

  304. RayC says:

    Does JP Morgan need a guy who is EXCELLENT at reading Real Estate Blogs?

  305. John says:

    What is with all the protesting on wall street today, sounds like a lot of mumbling to us folks high up.

    Husband is hitting the spot if she has an infant

  306. Essex says:

    Protests are not effective….hunting rifles…now they are something else.

  307. zieba says:

    Stu et al,

    I am thinking about putting 25K of cash into a high yield checking account yielding 4.75% in a small community bank in NC. Not sure if said bank is a going concern or not but the account requires relatively few hoops to jump through to keep rate. Currently, I bank with Citi.

    Assuming this bank fails and is taken over by another institution, can the acquiring bank rescind the APY offer?


  308. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [318] zieba

    I believe so. FDIC powers here are pretty broad, and I think that they can abrogate agreements before the new bank steps in.

  309. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [310] john

    What about older kids????

  310. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    [310] john

    and what if you did not know she was married? Any difference?

  311. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. "The Goon Squad" says:

    “All right. I shoplifted the pootie.”

  312. SG says:

    Bank of America to release homes

    Jan. 14–Bank of America expects to release about 6,000 foreclosed properties into the Nevada housing market in 2010, or about 500 a month, an executive with the bank said Wednesday.

    It’s part of the so-called “phantom inventory” of foreclosed homes being held by banks as they work out loan modifications and negotiate short sales, two of the more desirable alternatives to foreclosure.

    Throughout the country, estimates of homes being taken back by Bank of America range from 11,000 to 14,000 a month in the early part of this year to 29,000 to 35,000 by November and December, said John Ciresi, vice president and portfolio manager for Bank of America in Towson, Md.

    “It’s kind of scary,” Fenn said. “When you go for the highest and best offer, you get people bidding too high and the property ends up going back on the market. I think there’s going to be a double-dip in values. They’re going to go up and then come back down.”

    Ciresi anticipates a rise in the foreclosure rate in 2010 because 60 percent of loan modifications failed and went into foreclosure. It’s a combination of property devaluation and people losing their jobs, he said.

    “Where are these homes? Banks are trying to convert some of them to short sales, but they’re holding on to houses in lieu of the market stabilizing and it has,” Kiernan said. “But every trend says there’s a second tsunami coming. These houses are somewhere. They’re not disappearing.”

  313. Uncle Jay says:

    not really a Jersey real estate question—–I think I am throwing in the towel on buying a home in Jersey….what does everyone here think of Croton-on-the-Hudson, NY? School system, Good bad? General Opinions on town? Why I should find a different town in New Jersey than Croton? (something affordable and is liveable)

  314. Pat says:

    BOA is stupid for being the crash test dummy.

    Wonder what they’re getting.

  315. John says:

    So back when I was throwing out investment grade bond recomendations at 18% you kept your cash at Citi? Now you are locking in a 4.75%? What is name of bank, maybe I will check it out.

    zieba says:
    January 15, 2010 at 4:30 pm
    Stu et al,

    I am thinking about putting 25K of cash into a high yield checking account yielding 4.75% in a small community bank in NC. Not sure if said bank is a going concern or not but the account requires relatively few hoops to jump through to keep rate. Currently, I bank with Citi.

    Assuming this bank fails and is taken over by another institution, can the acquiring bank rescind the APY offer?


  316. blindjust says:

    A friend of mine in FL stopped paying his mortgage 2.5 years ago and was just evicted.

  317. John says:

    If the daughter is 21, blonde and easy on the eyes, two for one.

    Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. “The Goon Squad” says:
    January 15, 2010 at 4:34 pm
    [310] john

    What about older kids????

  318. freedy says:

    i did a year finally settled with chase.

    screw them

  319. freedy says:

    how many from Haiti will arrive shortly in
    NJ? place your bets. 1k, 5k, 20K

    and the towns, let’s see: Patterson,Passaic
    camden, elizabeth,

    and how much will they suck out of the
    NJ taxpayer?

  320. tunoinca says:

    Tosh – John is right. You can always find someone else. Your girlfriend can always find someone else. But the two-year-old only has one daddy, and if this works out as you hope, you’ll be permanently destroying his/her little world. there’s been a lot of recent research on the effect of divorce on kids, and it’s all horrible. they come to believe *permanently* that the world is an unstable place, people are not to be trusted or relied on, life is sad and lonely, and all sorts of other awful things that are actually true, but why be part of making it true for them specifically?

    as someone who has had many opportunities to be “rescued”, I can tell you that this woman does not see you as her permanent partner. She may believe that she’ll stick with you, but she won’t. If she let you go before, you aren’t the one for her. That doesn’t mean that you’re unattractive or unappealing (in fact I’m sure she finds you attractive and appealing); it means that you don’t have the chemistry to be her permanent partner.

    I’m going to give some weird advice. Go right ahead and have s*x with her; ASAP. then she’ll remember why she didn’t stick with you before, and will go back to her husband. then the two of you can become friends, and you can teach her how to drive, and her kid will still have a dad. (this is NOT meant to disparage your s@xual prowess; this sort of thing really is chemically based, and if it didn’t work for her before it won’t now, no matter how much she rationally likes you).

    Pat – not everyone has dirt. I’ve been faithful for 23 years!! half my life!!!! the secret is to make the pre-marriage days REALLY COUNT.

  321. SG says:

    Wow, this price drops are really tempting :-)

    Pseudo-seller’s housing market assessed

    It’s definitely a bonanza for bargain hunters, particularly compared to what houses cost just a few years ago. In Brentwood, a five-bedroom Inverness Court house that sold for $820,000 in 2005 was recently picked up for $365,000. A three-bedroom house on Morro Drive in Antioch that sold for $489,000 in 2006 was recently purchased for $182,000. A three-bedroom Discovery Bay house on Merritt Court that sold for $645,000 in 2006 was snapped up for $305,000 last month. In Oakley a four-bedroom house on Puffin Circle selling for $654,000 in 2006 recently went for $270,000.

  322. Pat says:

    tunoinca, not all dirt is based on sex and relationships. I’m also a faithful one.

    Have you ever wonder about the path you didn’t take and the negative effects of your actions? The little nasty things?

    What about the actions of your chosen officials [whether you voted or not, you chose], and whether or not you in any way corrected them through verbal or mail contact?

    There are many colors of dirt, and sex is not the deepest level of responsibility.

  323. SG says:

    NYC foreclosed homes owned by lenders spikes

    In less than two years, the number of properties that failed to sell after mortgage defaults has risen to 1,750 from just 290, a new study finds.

    The highest number by far is in Queens, which is home to 1,072 REOs. Brooklyn has 245 and Staten Island has 226. Nearly 20% of all 2007 foreclosure filings in Queens wound up as REOs, the highest rate in the city.

    The report also found that most New York City properties that entered foreclosure in the past 15 years never completed the process because owners typically sell their homes or become current on their loans. Of those homes that do wind their way through foreclosure and end up as bank owned, nearly half are bought and resold within a year for significant profit. Between 1995 and 2007, properties flipped within a year resold at an average of 45% more than the purchase price.

    Among the approximately 12,000 one-to-four family homes that were hit with foreclosure notices in 2007, 54% were never sold and had not completed the process by September 2009. Almost 14% had not been sold, but had received another foreclosure filing. Some 14% were sold and another 4% transferred through divorce or estate sales. Another 12% went to auction, but were not sold, ending up as REOs.

  324. SG says:

    UBS’s 10 Predictions for Housing in 2010

    1. “Fundamentals will remain ‘choppy’ in the first half of the year, with conflicting data points making it difficult to ascertain whether we’ve actually reached the trough in housing.” We can’t argue with this one: Data points have turned into a roller coaster.
    “Headline risk, primarily driven by the government’s efforts to extract itself from the mortgage market, will drive the homebuilding stocks down 15% or more from current levels.” Mr. Goldberg continues: “With the longer term path for fundamentals offering limited clarity, we expect the homebuilding stocks to remain quite volatile and extremely sensitive to news flow.” We don’t need to remind investors how far they’ve already fallen from peak levels — or how they bounce around day-to-day!
    “The previous prediction notwithstanding, the government is going to do everything in its power to protect home prices.” Mr. Goldberg says: “In the end, we believe that concerns about higher rates and declining mortgage market liquidity won’t amount to much. In our opinion, the government has continually made it clear that it is working to limit further home price declines given the serious ramifications these declines would have for both consumers and lenders.” Read: Housing is too big to fail.

  325. Pat says:

    Elvis was too big to die on the toilet, too.

    Shit happens.

  326. Uncle Jay says:

    not really a Jersey real estate question—–I think I am throwing in the towel on buying a home in Jersey….what does everyone here think of Croton-on-the-Hudson, NY? School system, Good bad? General Opinions on town? Why I should find a different town in New Jersey than Croton? (something affordable and is liveable)

  327. bones deplume says:

    (328) John

    Why didn’t I see that coming?

    (325) Pat

    FRB won’t let a bhc hold oreo for very long. I suspect the feds will grant waivers but at some pint it has to go. That may also be one reason banks delayed foreclosures—so the clock wouldn’t start running.

  328. chicagofinance says:


  329. d2b says:

    I don’t buy the theory that social networking sites are the cause of breakups. Bad relationships are the cause of breakups. If one gets a divorce because of a facebook connection, the issue is with the parties involved, not the sites in general.

  330. Nom – Thank you for the advice. You deserved a longer response, but to tell you the truth I’m a bit addled right now.
    We both know we need to step back, we are doing so…. I now need to go hit the gym. If this goes on much longer I’ll be back to a 28in waist.

  331. d2b says:

    Sweeney is a union hack. the worst kind because he was a union administrator, not an actual worker. Sweeney is also a triple dipper drawing a salary as a union 399 executive, a state senator, and a local freeholder.

  332. Pat says:

    freedy, I want to know why you couldn’t get 18 months. What happened – dealing with a fully staffed location? You didn’t try to get your payment center changed?

  333. d2b says:

    Sean 302-
    I would bet that most businesses that pay workers under the table are those that just get by. Industries that seem to use such unskilled labor operate on very tight margins.

    There are exceptions, but it’s a myth that rich owners are getting that way by cheating the system. BTW, car washes are notorious for recycling SS numbers. They pay taxes on the illegals that work there.

    There are a ton of US citizens that also work under the table for extra income. Everybody games the system in one way or another.

    Some small businesses need to cut corners to stay open. That’s the reality.

  334. Barbara aka B-Cat says:

    d2d, most contractors I have worked with pay themselves first, do not work and pay the skilled illegals maybe 10 bucks an hour. One job I estimated that after labor and materials, contractor pocketed 70%.

  335. Essex says:

    342…and balls the size of kansas.

  336. yikes says:

    John says:
    January 15, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Christy Brinkly and she was sunbathing next door and we got a look at her with no make-up on. That lady is a mess of freckles all over her face, she must cake it on every morning. When Christie roller over and I saw her face I lost my hard-on quicker than if you hit my pecker with a ball-peen hammer.

    Sorry John, have to call BS here. Without giving away too much, my previous job put me in close proximity with Brinkley twice. As in face-to-face. Within the last five years.

    She doesn’t exactly ‘cake’ it on now, so I can’t imagine that she would 25 years ago.

    She’s a natural beauty, IMO.

    cake-on makeup? Gina Gershon. Also: Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman (yes, the same MILF from Wedding Crashers).

  337. yikes says:

    toshiro_mifune says:
    January 15, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Other interesting personal facts about me; I’m a WTC survivor. I was on the 50th fl of tower 1, and spent about 5 years living with PTSD.

    you’ve been here for 4 yrs and this is the 1st we’re hearing of the WTC? spill! come on!

    1591x more interesting than cars and photography

  338. Essex says:

    folks right now toshiro needs our support. he also needs to get laid.

  339. Concerned Blogger says:


    Try this:


    It will help relax you.


    I’m sure they can help you as well.

  340. Concerned Blogger says:

    Maxine will give you a new perspective on life and a substantial number of REWARDS points on your AMEX

  341. #353 – What, no trannies?

  342. Concerned Blogger says:

    I dont frequent the same establishments as john

  343. Mr Hyde says:


    as someone before said, you may feel strongly about being willing to take the risks here, but beware that the child is very likely to be impacted beyond your control and despite your best intentions.

    As the father of a 2 yr old, iw ill say tha you cannot underestimate how much more potentially damaging this situation is to the child then to anyone else involved.

    be a friend, but nothing more. If you cant, find a nice healthy destructive habit on the side and drown your sorrows.

  344. Essex says:


  345. freedy says:

    pat i could have gone much , much longer
    but i found a sucker to buy the joint.

  346. tunoinca says:

    Pat 33 – um, no, I’m not that guilt-ridden. I agree with you that those things matter, and I try to do the right thing, but I don’t then worry about that sort of stuff. but a 2-year-old is the Big Stuff (and I don’t even have kids).

  347. Stu says:


    Faithful my hole life. Even when dating in the early days. I agree on your strategy. Got to make it count in between serious relationships. If the going is good at home, then there really should be no desire to stray.

  348. yikes says:

    John says:
    January 15, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Christy Brinkly and she was sunbathing next door and we got a look at her with no make-up on. That lady is a mess of freckles all over her face, she must cake it on every morning. When Christie roller over and I saw her face I lost my hard-on quicker than if you hit my pecker with a ball-peen hammer.

    Sorry John, have to call BS here. Without giving away too much, my previous job put me in close proximity with Brinkley twice. As in face-to-face. Within the last five years.

    She doesn’t exactly ‘cake’ it on now, so I can’t imagine that she would 25 years ago.

    She’s a natural beauty, IMO.

    cake-on makeup? Gina Gershon. Also: Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman (yes, the same M!LF from Wedding Crashers).

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