Debt Obligations Redefined

From HousingWire:

TransUnion Sees More People Paying Plastic Before Property

More borrowers than ever before are choosing to pay down credit card debt over making mortgage payments.

The share of borrowers who are delinquent on their mortgages but current on their credit cards rose to 6.6% as of Q309 (from 4.3% in Q108), according to national credit bureau TransUnion.

At the same time, the share of borrowers that are delinquent on credit cards but current on their mortgages slipped to 3.6% from 4.1%.

This switch first appeared in early 2008, when TransUnion reported the share of borrowers current on credit cards and delinquent on mortgages surpassed the share of borrowers current on mortgage payments and behind on credit cards. Since then, the shift of borrower behavior in paying down debt is growing.

“Conventional wisdom has always been that, when faced with a financial crisis, consumers will pay their secured obligations first, specifically their mortgages,” said Sean Reardon, author of the TransUnion study on the changing payment hierarchy from Q208 through Q309.

“The implosion of the mortgage industry over the last 24 months, the resetting of adjustable-rate mortgages and the weak job market have all come together to redefine how consumers are managing their finances and meeting (or not meeting) their credit obligations,” said Ezra Becker, director of consulting and strategy in the TransUnion financial services business unit.

Another national credit bureau, Equifax, recently released analysis that indicates home equity lines of credit (HELOCs) represent a significant portion of borrowers’ revolving debt and, thus, a huge driver of default.

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459 Responses to Debt Obligations Redefined

  1. grim says:

    From the Record:

    Study finds the wealthy prefer Conn. to N.J.

    New Jersey has seen a big drop in the number of wealthy individuals moving into the state in the past five years, resulting in a $168 billion loss for the economy over that span, according to a new study.

    The study was conducted by the Boston College Center on Wealth and Philanthropy. John Havens, senior associate director of the center, said the major shift was among wealthy individuals from New York who, until 2004, migrated to New Jersey in large numbers. At that point, he said, “there seemed to be a shift into Connecticut.”

    Jim Hughes, dean of the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers University, said the income tax was one of several factors that “signaled that the more affluent would be targeted to solve the state’s tax-revenue problems.” New Jersey’s property taxes, by many measures the highest in the nation, are another significant factor, he said.

    Property taxes, Hughes said, may be even more of a disincentive for the wealthy to move from New York into New Jersey. Because New York City commuters have to pay the higher city income tax anyway, their state of residence doesn’t make much difference to their income-tax bill.

  2. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    SEC Charges State Street Over Subprime Mortgage Investments

    Money manager State Street Corp. agreed Thursday to pay back $313 million to investors misled about their exposure to subprime mortgages—one of the strongest sanctions yet for behavior during last decade’s credit boom.

    The Boston-based fund company has a reputation as a staid provider of investment advice. In charges filed by the Securities and Exchange Commission, the firm is accused of telling fund investors the assets were “diversified” when they were actually concentrated in money-losing subprime loans.

    The firm also attracted the ire of the SEC and Massachusetts regulators for warning a group of elite clients about the fund problems, while keeping the information from other clients. State Street’s own pension fund was one of those the firm advised to redeem, regulators said.

  3. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    What, No Jobs Yet? It’s the Recovery Everyone Loves To Hate

    Let’s face it. There are so many opinions as to why the economy isn’t creating jobs in this recovery—and when non-farm payrolls will finally turn positive—that impatience may be on the verge of becoming exasperation.

    Historical precedent from previous recessions is failing as a guide; government intervention in the private sector and labor market has disappointed or failed, depending on one’s political sympathies; and there’s a glut of next-step solutions with a paucity of consensus about any of them.

    Welcome to the recovery that everyone loves to hate.

    “This was a longer and deeper recession than average, so a certain amount of impatience is understandable,” says Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute.

    “I don’t think things are going to unfold in the right direction as everyone hopes,” says veteran economist David Jones.

    “It’s going to very difficult to find something [on job creation] at this stage of the game that appeals to both parties,” says Bill Frenzel, who served ten terms in Congress and is now with the Brookings Institution.

  4. grim says:

    From the AP:

    NY judge orders foreclosure sale of middle-class Harlem housing complex

    A judge has ordered the foreclosure sale of the historic Riverton Houses, a middle-class Harlem apartment complex that plummeted in value amid the housing downturn.

    The decision by State Supreme Court Justice Richard Braun, released Tuesday, called for the auction of the gated community and its 1,232 apartments, which were built in the 1940s. With the property now valued at a fraction of the mortgage price, it appeared unlikely that the creditors that financed the $225 million deal would recoup all their losses.

    The investment group that bought the complex, Stellar Management, purchased the property in 2005 and took out the nearly quarter-billion-dollar mortgage. But by September of last year, it was worth just $108 million, according to one analyst estimate.

    Residents have included jazz pianist Billy Taylor; former Mayor David N. Dinkins; and former Motown Records vice president Suzanne de Passe.

  5. freedy says:

    just a matter of time before the credit cards
    defaults heats up.

    people will get the message on that as well.

    they have been had.

  6. d2b says:

    I think that the govt has really punished savers in this recession. The big firms get the help. The little guy who never should have bought gets a handout through jingle mail wil no consequences.
    When the little guy no longer aspires to be better and the folks in the middle is the division growing between them and the top, this is what you have. We get the type of society that we deserve.

  7. road trip (418, last thread)-

    Thanks for taking the time to read through that report and blowing up the troll, plg, in a very tidy, methodical manner.

  8. grim (4)-

    Too bad these dopes don’t even realize it’s not a recovery.

    It’s the damned Second Depression.

  9. All the Ultrashorts getting ready to kick it old skool again.

    Where’s bi?

  10. Veto That says:


    mind the gap.

  11. Veto That says:

    If their city was just hit with an explosion, why are they laughing so hard here?
    I guess its a cultural difference. I will never figure that one out.

  12. leftwing says:

    Exchange of the Day:

    CNBC is showing Bernanke’s picture around to SuperBowl XLIV players, asking if they know who he is.

    DeMario Pressley, Saints: He looks like crook.

    CNBC: He looks like a crook? Why?

    DM: He just got that look about him, man. Like he’s just out to take everything you own.

    CNBC: Do you know what the Fed does?

    DM: Lock ya up.

    Truer words…….

  13. Cindy says:

    I just couldn’t resist this headline…

    “China vs. U.S. Chickens”

  14. using another handle says:

    I’m down here in FLA for the Super Bowl and missed yesterday’s market bloodbath. can’t wait to go through 400+ comments. I’ll read it while I’m in traffic (it’s horrible, everywhere).

    i just hope that one commenter didn’t buy a 750k condo.

  15. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    Clot 10 I’m in.

  16. US vs Chinese Lead-Painted Toys?

  17. mike (16)-

    We gotta watch like a hawk. PPT, GS, JPM can turn this thing on a dime.

    That being said, support is broken, and we should get a nasty little downdraft. On top of that, the UST has a ton of asswipe (er, notes, bills and bonds) to move. They’d better get humping.

  18. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    IlDuce heating up it up for inevitable war. Trade or shooting,your call.

  19. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    Clot 18 Yes, don’t plan on being far from the sell button.

  20. Cindy says:

    Playing chicken with chickens…

    Doesn’t Obama realize we owe these folks money?

  21. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    830 here it comes.

  22. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    Jobs -20k 9.7 % over all.

  23. BLS birth/death revisions vomitocious. Somehow, UE drops to 9.7%.

    Lies…all lies.

  24. I think I caught birth/death revision at -1.2mm. Is that right?

  25. Still time to catch a flight to Santiago.

  26. Cindy says:

    What about this story from yesterday about the “poof” – 800,000 jobs gone?

  27. Time to play YEN/EUR cross…aka Three-Card Monty.

  28. Alap says:

    I love gov’t math. -150k jobs in dec. instead of -85k. -20k jobs in jan. unemployment falls .3% to 9.7%.

  29. frank says:

    Buy a house now before the UR goes down to 6% and you wished you have bought it at today’s prices.

  30. Mr Hyde says:


    as you have said before;

    it’s quite liberating once you acknowledge that our current government is essentially a criminal organization.

    At least the Italians have some honor…

    The blue pill will set you free or drive you insane

  31. toyne says:

    #30 YAWN!!!

  32. frank says:

    You have a problem with out gov?? Move to Greece or Portugal.

  33. Painhrtz says:

    Nom from yesterday Alta doesn’t allow boarders either, have a great time

  34. Shore Guy says:

    I suspect the decline is mainly based on people becoming “discouraged” and thus, even though without a job, no longer being counted.

    How are people counted if they exhaust unemployment benefits?

  35. RoadTripBoy says:

    This “great news” just in from Yahoo . . . except the only thing remotely great is the headline. The content seems something of a scandal

    “The report also included an annual revision to the estimates of total payrolls, which showed there were 930,000 fewer jobs last March than previously estimated. The department also revised down its estimates for April through October of last year, adding another 433,000 job losses.”

    “All told, the Great Recession has eliminated 8.4 million jobs, the department said. That’s the most of any recession since World War II as a proportion of total payrolls.”

    And my favorite line from this article:

    The report included more good news from the manufacturing sector, which is a key factor in the recovery. Manufacturers gained 11,000 jobs, its largest increase since April 2006.”

    More good news? This report does nothing but undermine confidence and trust. I guess the job gains *are* good news . . . until we get an “Oops, we-were-wrong-about-that” article in about 8 months.

  36. frank says:

    I suspect the decline in UR is due to people moving out of this country, join them. If you hate this country like Clot, take the next boat to Greece.

  37. toyne says:

    #36 And how exactly is manufacturing a key to recovery in this country?

  38. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    This unemployment report is a testiment to our govs open fraud to the American people. Go drink some tap water.

  39. Hey, Cindy…you don’t need to buy Ipecac anymore. Whenever you need a nice, refreshing purge, just read this:

    “The California State Teachers’ Retirement System said that as of June 30, 2009, it could meet only an estimated 77% of its future pension obligations — far less than the 100% recommended by actuaries.

    Known as CalSTRS, the fund took a big hit during the 2008-09 fiscal year, losing a quarter of its value. Since then, its investment returns have improved, but the growth isn’t strong enough to keep up with a widening funding gap.

    What’s worse, CalSTRS Chief Executive Jack Ehnes said in a report to be presented to the board Feb. 5, the fund could be broke in 35 years — the length of a typical teaching career.

    To avoid that calamity, Ehnes wants the state Legislature to raise employer pension contributions paid by the state and, indirectly, California’s 1,043 school districts in the next few years.

    Given there is virtually no chance the legislature will pony up $43 billion, CalSTRS considers rolling the dice on commodities. Hell why not? Taxpayers are on the hook if it does not work out.

    Please consider California Teachers’ Pension Fund Mulls Commodity Investment:

    The California State Teachers’ Retirement System, the second-biggest U.S. public pension, is considering investments in commodities to boost returns and provide a hedge against inflation and slumping equities.

    The governing board of the fund, with $134 billion under management, is scheduled to hear today a staff report in Sacramento that recommends its first-ever commodity investment. The board will decide whether to seek additional research on strategies and portfolio weightings.”

    This should end really, really well. Maybe you will luck out, and Orin Kramer will be hired as a manager by your pension fund.

  40. Mr Hyde says:

    Clot, mike

    short away!

    I must not fear.
    Fear is the mind-killer.
    Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
    I will face my fear.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
    Only I will remain.

  41. toyne says:

    #35 The numbers come from two seperate surveys. One which surveys households regarding the number of people working. Apparently Jan’s survey indicated that more people were working than were working in December.

    The second part of the equation comes from seperate employer surveys, which indicated -20K job losses for January.

    Either way frank is drooling all over himself, with the mistaken impression that this is going to lead people to run out and buy houses before prices go up. For frank it will always be 2005.

  42. At what point today will everybody figure out that all the UE revisions have been cooked?

    At what point today will everyone figure out they don’t want to be long anything denominated in EUR through the weekend?

    At what point today will all the money managers simultaneously lose their nerve and hit the “sell” on their remaining equity gambles?

  43. Then again, what do I know?

  44. Mr Hyde says:


    your tone sounds very familiar. Is toyne a recent namechange or are you a newer poster?

  45. Cindy says:

    #40 Clot – Commodities? Oh yeah, the RE stuff went so well….

    Pretty sad, huh. I actually don’t know whether to cry or laugh. I do know I have to be out of debt and have a few pennies saved before I can let go of the monthly paycheck.

    By establishing such a sense of insecurity in their older workers, the state is also messing with the CA employment numbers. Teacher layoffs all over the place. Again, pretty sad.

    What a friggin joke. They take $575. out of my paycheck every month – and there isn’t a thing I can do about it…

  46. House Whine says:

    #35- I think this answers the question you have:

    By Bob Willis and Courtney Schlisserman

    Jan. 9 (Bloomberg) — An exodus of discouraged workers from the job market kept the U.S. unemployment rate from climbing above 10 percent in December, economists said.

    Had the labor force not decreased by 661,000 last month, the jobless rate would have been 10.4 percent, according to economists including David Rosenberg at Gluskin Sheff & Associates in Toronto and Harm Bandholz at UniCredit Research in New York.

    The actual unemployment rate is higher than shown by the official numbers,” Bandholz said yesterday after a Labor Department report released in Washington showed the economy unexpectedly lost 85,000 jobs in December while the jobless rate was unchanged.

    About 1.7 million Americans opted out of the workforce from July through December, representing a 1.1 percent drop that marks the biggest six-month decrease since 1961, the Labor Department report showed. The share of the population in the labor force last month fell to the lowest level in 24 years.

    The so-called underemployment rate — which includes part- time workers who’d prefer a full-time position and people who want work but have given up looking — rose to 17.3 percent in December from 17.2 percent.

  47. still_looking says:

    42, “For frank it will always be 2005.”



  48. Veto That says:

    Taxable Muni.

    Matures: 9/1/2015
    Moodys/S&P: AA2/A
    Price 77.033
    Yield to Worst 4.75%
    Yield to Maturity 4.75%
    MBIA Insured

  49. d2b says:

    Sitting in a benefits meeting. Employee costs are going up 13%. CRAP!

  50. House Whine says:

    50- And let me guess- your raises are going to be 2%?

  51. I keep listening to the news speak about getting free online grant applications so I have been looking around for the best site to get one.

  52. Painhrtz says:

    Great Hyde now your quoting Herbert.

  53. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    Ket 41 Bene Gesserit . I actually use that.

  54. toyne says:

    #45 I am/was 3b, took a break for a while, because there were too many trolls invading my sanctuary. And, all this FTHB credit and Fed buying MBS, and discussions on principal write downs, sent me into a dark place for a while. ( I am still sort of there) I have reappeared on a limited basis as toyne, may come back on as 3b. No harm on my part intended.

  55. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [34] pain

    Ah, that explains it. I thought only Deer Valley did that but since I ski, I don’t keep track.

  56. Veto That says:

    I dont hate this one at all.

    4.339% 06/15/2018
    CUSIP 64986AL41
    Moody’s Rating AA1
    S&P Rating AA+
    Material Events NO
    Call Protection NO
    Price (Ask) 100.001
    Yield to Worst (Ask) 4.338%

    John was absolutely right. If you want any yield at all (over 1.5%) without going out past 2015, you need to literally buy toxic sludge that have one foot in default as you press the buy button.

  57. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [50] d2b

    “Sitting in a benefits meeting. Employee costs are going up 13%. CRAP!”

    Hope and Change, my friend, Hope and Change.

  58. Mr Hyde says:


    no offense taken or suggested, was just curious. best of luck with the trolls. defenestrate a few for me while you are at it.


  59. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Anyone still need a swine flu shot?

    Veto you waited on line to get a shot didnt you? Go shave your eyebrows moron Im heading to the range.

  60. Mr Hyde says:


    perhaps this one is better suited to the times:

    There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and dispair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope. The death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition to be born. In moments of transition, noone knows the shape of the future, or where it will take us. We only know that it is always born in pain.”

  61. danzud says:

    Who here can explain to we why we don’t consider the not seasonally adjusted unemployment rate of 10.6% instead of the rosier 9.7%?

  62. toyne says:

    #59 Glad you noticed.

  63. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:


    you said, way up top

    just a matter of time before the credit cards
    defaults heats up. [snip]

    they have been had.


  64. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Dow under 10K (whose got the hats?), and the sled is picking up speed.


  65. Mr Hyde says:


    Q for you, e-mail me pls.

    1elttek at g mail
    (kettle1 spelled backwards)

  66. Veto That says:

    “you waited on line to get a shot didnt you?”

    Not for my family but thanks for asking you paranoid freak.
    Now go back to your lead lined silo and i’ll be watching for you at the 6 spot.

  67. leftwing says:

    “…sent me into a dark place for a while. ( I am still sort of there)”

    My wife accused a while back of being too negative about everything and life in general.

    Had to stick my head in the sand and drop off here for a little bit as well…

    Truth sucks.

  68. Painhrtz says:

    Nom alta (kind of a throw back)is supposed to be more challenging than deer valley and gets the most snow. She had an awesome time as she tele’s and loved the challenge.

    I just like doing cruisers in powder, I didn’t start boarding until well into adulthood. So I lack the total disrespect of some of the boarders out there. Skiied once, hit a tree never will get on planks again

  69. Painhrtz says:

    hyde I just plan on doing a Douglas Adams, when I drop out of civilization

    “So long and thanks for all the fish”

  70. toyne says:

    #68 Me too. Did not like the complete cynic I have become. And the truth does sux, especially when you understand what is going on, and most others still appear to be utterly clueless.

  71. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:


    nice to see ya

  72. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:

    From the WSJ

    * FEBRUARY 5, 2010

    Mortgage Rate Back Above 5%

    * Article
    * Comments

    more in Markets Main »

    * Email
    * Print

    Save This ↓ More




    o + More
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    * larger Text smaller


    Home-mortgage rates generally rose slightly this past week, with the average on 30-year fixed-rate mortgages edging back above 5%, according to Freddie Mac’s weekly survey of mortgage loans.

    Rates remained “relatively stable” for a second week amid “news of a strengthening housing market,” said Freddie Chief Economist Frank Nothaft. Pending existing-home sales rebounded 1% in December from a record drop in November that was due, in part, to the original expiration of home-buyer tax credit, according to the National Association of Realtors. They have since been extended.

    “More recently mortgage applications for home purchases jumped 10% at the end of January, according to figures from the Mortgage Bankers Association,” Mr. Nothaft added.

    But demand for new homes fell in December as cold weather and continued high unemployment chilled hopes for a housing market recovery, with single-family home sales dropping 7.6%, the Commerce Department said last week. December’s drop followed a 9.3% plunge in November.

    Meanwhile, the 30-year fixed-rate mortgage averaged 5.01% for the week ended Thursday, up from the prior week’s 4.98% average but down from 5.25% a year ago. Rates on 15-year fixed were 4.4%, compared with 4.39% and 4.92% respectively.

    Five-year Treasury-indexed hybrid adjustable-rate mortgages averaged 4.27%, up from last week’s 4.25% and down from 5.26% a year earlier. One-years fell to 4.22% from 4.29% and 4.92%.

    To obtain the rates, the fixed-rate mortgages required payment of an average 0.7 point, the five-year adjustable mortgage required a 0.6 point and the one-year had an average 0.5 point. A point is 1% of the mortgage amount, charged as prepaid interest.

  73. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:

    whoops …sorry for the computer garbage in the WSJ post …

  74. meter says:

    @58 – Nom:

    ““Sitting in a benefits meeting. Employee costs are going up 13%. CRAP!”

    Hope and Change, my friend, Hope and Change.”

    Not understanding your comment?? This is the (hopelessly broken, corrupt) system that Republicans want to keep in place. The system that basically bankrupts anyone who is unlucky enough to get the big C diagnosis.

    Or, as Republican politicians call it on Sunday morning shows, “the best healthcare system in the world.”

    I’m personally less interested in universal healthcare while very interested in caps on YoY plan increases for the same coverage.

  75. still_looking says:

    Hi, I’m “still_looking” and I’ve become dishearteningly pessimistic, too.

    Seems like most folks don’t have a clue (or care) about what’s going on. To them it is just status quo… with the occasional crisis.

    We have the anxiety of what’s coming — wish it would happen and be over so we can start fixing it (for real.)

    TPTB want to just keep kicking the can which is prolonging the agony. I know it’s causing me to stall in decision making for my family… but am grateful we didn’t buy in ’05/’06.


  76. Shore don't know about this remake of a classic Guy says:

    Casa-underwater (2010)

    Rick: Last night we said a great many things. You said I was to do the thinking for both of us. Well, I’ve done a lot of it since then, and it all adds up to one thing: we are walking away from this mortgage

    Ilsa: But, Richard, no, I… I…

    Rick: Now, you’ve got to listen to me! You have any idea what you’d have to look forward to if you stayed here? Nine chances out of ten, we’d both wind up having to give up the Jag, the BMW, the weekend place in Fort lauderdale.. Isn’t that true, Louie?

    Captain Renault: I’m afraid the bankruptcy court would insist.

    Ilsa: You’re saying this only to make me go.

    Rick: I’m saying it because it’s true. Inside of us, we both know you you need a certain lifestyle, the right clothes, the right car. If you dont keep your status you’ll regret it. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life.

    Ilsa: But what about our FICO score?

    Rick: We’ll always have 2005. We didn’t have, we, we lost it until you came to NJRER. We got it back when I realized this is a non-recourse state.

    Ilsa: When I said I would never leave this house.

    Rick: And you never will. But I’ve got a job to do, hiding our other assets. What I’ve got to do, you can’t be any part of, so you can’t testify against me. Ilsa, I’m no good at being noble, but it doesn’t take much to see that the problems of two underwater McMansion owners don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you’ll understand that. Now, now… Here’s looking at you kid.

  77. frank says:

    Karen Weaver from DB, the most negative housing analyst on the street just got fired. Lesson for all the bears out there, get real.

  78. lisoosh says:

    Sounds like an AA meeting in here:

    “Hi, I’m Barry and I’m a Doomer, it’s been 20 minutes since I last looked for news updates concerning the economy”.

  79. still_looking says:

    please. someone. make it go away…


  80. Sean says:

    re: #57 Veto – re: gov’t bonds.

    Yesterday I posted about Harrisburg PA, they are about to default on their incinerator bonds.

    Moody’s has also been on a tear, downgrading all kinds of munis including the MTA!

  81. still_looking says:

    80 (is for 78) not you, lisoosh. :)


  82. Painhrtz says:

    Hi I’m Painhrtz and I’m awaiting the rioting by stockpiling ammunition while sporting a half hearted sideways smile

  83. safeashouses says:

    I don’t understand how people can claim we are near a housing bottom. I can rent a 4 bedroom CHC with a finished basement for less then it would cost to put 20% down on a 3 bedroom 1 bath ranch on a slab in the same town. Plus I don’t have to pay for any repairs or take care of the grounds.

  84. Veto That says:

    Sean, yeah thanks saw that. Im sure there will be more.
    US Sovereign rating downgrade is prob next.

  85. Mr Hyde says:

    3b SL

    Keep life in perspective. Yes, i’m a doomer…. But i also realize life goes on.

    You have to keep in mind that “You cant fix stupid”. The average joe will always be the average joe and neither you or i or any other NJREREPORT blogger are going to change their mind, barring rare exceptions.

    What you can do is put yourself and your family in the best position possible and then ride out the storm.

    Also keep in mind timescales. Economic crisis take years to play out, and waking up every morning waiting for the stock market to crash will put you in a bad place mentally.

    Life goes on. Look at Argentina, Russia, etc. they went through economic collapses and while their lifestyle is not something we may want to emulate, life does go on.

    Think of it as the ultimate RPG. Level up, fill your coffers, pick up some new skills, and in between slaying the occasional dragon, explore the world a bit.

  86. toyne says:

    #85 People are not saying that, but cheerleaders and shrills are.

  87. still_looking says:

    thanks, ket!

    I’m okay… just tired of feeling like an ant with the shadow of a shoe over it. :)

    *running in circles*


  88. Sean says:

    Veto – wait till Obama and Congress extend the Build America Bond program into the trillions of dollars.

    There will be all kinds of new issuance thinly guised as capital expense programs when in reality it will be wholly for operating expenses and debt service.

  89. PGC says:

    #75 meter

    shut up you G0d damm L1beral ….. :*)


  90. safeashouses says:

    You guys are too pessimistic. I think the future of America is somewhere between Frank and Clot.

    I also want John to start a cult. Or at least write a book. Any chance he is Stanley Bing?

  91. lisoosh says:

    still_looking says:
    February 5, 2010 at 10:37 am
    “80 (is for 78) not you, lisoosh. :)


    I actually had a moment there :-).

  92. Shore Guy says:

    New Ali commercial:

    Fedco. Kills the middle class,DEAD.

  93. toyne says:

    #78 frank So what is your point, only bears get fired, or is it only the people that speak the truth get fired?

    OK frank if it makes you feel better, you psot indicates you posted your cooment on feb 5, 2010, at 10:32 AM, but just for you I will change it to indicate Feb 5, 2005!! 10:32 AM.

  94. lisoosh says:

    still_looking says:
    February 5, 2010 at 10:45 am

    “camel burgers… ick.


    Camel’s quite tasty. Like a gamey beef.

  95. toyne says:

    #88 Thanks.

  96. toyne says:

    #76 We have the anxiety of what’s coming — wish it would happen and be over so we can start fixing it (for real.)


  97. toyne says:

    #72 Thanks.

  98. Veto That says:

    Sean, its already been proposed.
    Pretty much a done deal. Starting in 2011 the subsidy goes down to 28%.

  99. Shore Guy says:

    “We have the anxiety of what’s coming — wish it would happen and be over so we can start fixing it (for real.)”

    Slow amputation, milimeter by milimeter, or quick one. If one is conscious during the procedure, it matters.

  100. Shore Guy says:

    millimeter, even

  101. Outofstater says:

    #77 Love it!!

  102. Shore Guy says:

    Nice, watch the hospital staff abandon the patient:

  103. Nom,

    Have fun in Utah. I was there three or four years ago with Gator. It was the last time she skied actually (bad knees). Do the back bowls. They are fantastic. Utah skiing is unique in that there is a lack of showoffs on the mountain, unlike the Vail and Killington crowd. It is very family oriented and it usually gets pretty warm in the afternoon. The area is beautiful and the blue-eyed blond Mormon chicks will have you staring.

    Enjoy the trip. I will ski it vicariously through you when I’m up at Plattekill in March.

  104. Shore Guy says:


    It sounds like Stu found a new source of au pairs for you.

  105. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [108] Shore

    Yeah. As if.

  106. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    NJ Transit going into crisis mode—will cross honor everything starting tonight at 6, and through Saturday.

  107. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [109] stu,

    Yeah, I was there last year. We are staying in the same place.

    I don’t recall seeing a lot of Mormon hotties in Park City though. Saw more in D.C.

  108. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [94] PGC

    “shut up you G0d damm L1beral”

    ’bout time you started making some sense.


  109. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [110] shore

    Nah, we are done with the au pair programs. We got lucky with the first one (now a law student in Berlin), but the rest were bozos. As stupid as our youth are, the rest of the world isn’t any better except they speak two languages.

    The great thing about au pairs though was that the care was cheap, and you had no income or payroll tax withholding obligation (if the au pair skated on taxes, not your problem). I expect Obama to do something about that though cuz, after all, only the “rich” have au pairs.

  110. Essex says:

    Oh Puleaze.

  111. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [77] shore


    Can I be Capt. Renault????

  112. Painhrtz says:

    Stu, Montclair Plattekill you are a glutton for punishment. Seriously I mountain bike Plattekill that place can be nasty

  113. toyne says:

    I found Gary’s house!!! blue ribbon Beregn Co train too!! all at an unbelieveable price!!!

  114. “I don’t recall seeing a lot of Mormon hotties in Park City though”

    Might be worth doing dinner down in the city. It’s really only a 20 minute or so ride down the mountain.

    At least make sure you check out the freaky square in town where they all congregate and biblical verses are amplified from a hidden PA. It’s very Red Dawnish.


    Not only do I ski Plattekill regularly, but I enjoy skiing the off limit bike trails on my 225s which renders the option of wedging to slow down impossible. That mountain is still the best kept secret in North East for hounds of ungroomed terrain. I hate ribbon!

  115. Painhrtz says:

    Stu I hope Gator has a good insurance policy on you. Seen my fair share of folks heli’d out of that place

  116. relo says:


    50%-60% of the municipal bond market was wrapped by MBIA, AMBAC and other reinsurers;
    after all, due diligence on the Escambia County Florida Health Facility is not that easy for muni buyers to do. But with the
    implosion of the monoline insurers, mostly a function of their structured credit exposure, only 10%-15% of the new issue
    market is now wrapped. In true ant/grasshopper fashion, Assured Guaranty stayed away from structured credit, and increased
    its reinsurance share of new issues from 1% in 2004 to 84% in 2009. But they’re not big enough to reinsure the entire market.
    There’s a possibility MBIA succeeds in splitting its municipal operations from its structured credit albatross5 and resumes
    normal operations. But MBIA’s former customers are suing MBIA and the New York Insurance Commissioner, which could
    take more than a year to sort out. Investing in municipals is now mostly a non-reinsured proposition.
    This matters, since one of the more terrifying charts of 2010 is the one on U.S. state and local finances. It’s amazing to
    see municipal bonds rallying so sharply at a time of deteriorating fundamentals (partially masked by Federal grants to the States
    which mostly expire in late 2010).

  117. Pain..The insurance policy is strong!

  118. Painhrtz says:

    The ski well, and stay to the right of the first lift there is a 9 foot waterfall/cliff down one of the bike trails

  119. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [121] stu

    Yow. Who’s yer daddy?

    You are on 225s? are you fcuking nuts?

    Even my old straight boards were never that long, and I am taller than you.

  120. Shore Guy says:

    Are 225s anything like 714s?

  121. Painhrtz says:

    PArty like its 2005

    I’ll add affordable mortgage or no mortgage with a defensible perimeter, tillable land and on site water. blowing wind or access to year round sun light depends on your luddite/post civilization preferences preferences ; )

  122. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [127] shore

    He’ll need 714s if he takes a nasty dump on the 225s.

  123. Painhrtz says:

    Shore they are more like water skis

  124. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [123] relo

    I got out of muni exposure and am on the sidelines. I figure states will get caught in the downdraft when the downgrades or muni defaults hit, and I can get back in then.

  125. Pat says:

    Make, any updates for the week?

  126. Nom: They are steel planks of speed, Volant Steel classic, non-shaped skis. They are pretty funny looking on top of my Civic in the Barrecrafter. They actually extend about 2 feet in front of the windshield and are nearly as long as the auto. When most are pushing across the flats, I’m zooming past them. These skis are so stiff and speedy that my ears frequently pop when I’m out to log vertical which is usually how I start the day at any new mountain to find the best, least crowded terrain.

  127. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Dow picking up speed, like Stu on his Volants, and in the same direction.

  128. All "H-Train: Hype says:

    Paging the PPT, paging the PPT, the market needs you now….

    Looks like the big money has gone short. Maybe the problems in the EU are bigger than orignally thought.

  129. freedy says:

    pinnacle throws in the towel in atlantic
    city, they have had enough.

    atlantic city could be finished.

  130. Veto That says:

    Uggh. I cant even watch. its so slow and bloody.
    like gutting a calf with a butter knife.
    I wish the s&p would just crash to 400 and we can be done with this already.

  131. Veto That says:

    “pinnacle throws in the towel in atlantic city”

    freedy, do you see what you started?

    wait till our govt walks. thats when then it will get extremely funny.

  132. sl (48)-

    Stupid is forever, too.

    “For frank it will always be 2005.”

  133. freedy says:

    hey veto pinnacle just selling , if they can’t find a buyer, then they walk.

  134. Veto That says:

    Real wages going up, hurting hiring.

    When the avg worker gets paid 20% less, then we can get back to 5% unemployment.

  135. For what it’s worth, I think we still melt up. Marketed needed a short-term correction. We have really gone straight up since last March.

    Regardless of whether or not the gubmint numbers are BS or not, I think the GDP number plus the 9.7% unemployment rate coupled with the return of salary increases could continue the BS melt-uprally.

    For what it’s worth, I upped my long position in my 401k from 50% to 75% post-market close today.

    Watch the market now breach the March bottom.

  136. freedy says:

    they ran atlantic city right into the ground. non smoking, lets make it a
    destination, right AC.

    MGM, next , they want out of the Borgata

  137. Veto That says:

    freedy, just curious, did you ever try selling or short sale on your condo?

  138. Pinnacle AC has been dead for a while now. The real question is whether or not Revel gets open or who buys out the MGM share of the Borgata.

    Resorts/Hilton/Trop are all dying a slow death.

  139. shore (107)-

    Not a popular idea, but I’ve always felt we could save everybody a lot of headaches if we just carpet nuke Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    They all want to die anyway…why don’t we oblige them?

  140. I hope BOYD just gets all of the Borgata. I’m a big downtown Las Vegas roller and Boyd is my Vegas comp connection. Borgata sucks for comps, but Boyd is very, very fair. Would love to have a better option then Ballys.

  141. Veto That says:

    “I upped my long position in my 401k from 50% to 75% post-market close today.”

    i would wait if possible.

  142. freedy says:

    no short sale veto , found a buyer
    and did my own settlement .

    short sale screw that ,

  143. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Code, 147

    not enough virgins to go around…

    I wonder if the martyr chicks get 72 virgin guys? That’d be like punishment all over again…


  144. Freedy MGM doesn’t WANT out, but it is required to get out to increase it’s stake in China.

  145. freedy says:

    ac is sad, they should knock down
    Bally’s place is a dive.

  146. Painhrtz says:

    SL they just get re-virginized, thrown into a harem for one of the aformentioned saints, a wreath of laurels and a hearty handshake!

  147. Veto That says:

    “found a buyer”

    freedy, you found a buyer?
    This potentially changes your whole story.
    Or was the buyer Chase?
    If not, was the price more or less than the outstanding mortgage?

  148. Veto…too late.

    No biggie. Don’t forget, I got out 100% at the tippy top (around 14K on the Dow). Thanks mainly to reading this blog!!!

  149. freedy says:

    i got the message quick from chase regarding a short sale, what a screw job that is. you can do it yourself, just
    tell them .,, “no more payments” where would you like the keys sent,, they kind
    of come around to your way of thinking.

  150. Veto That says:

    freedy, did you find a buyer for your condo or did you just mail the keys to chase?

  151. freedy says:


    sold to a private buyer. settled with the bank for less than was owed.

    put the difference in my pocket.

    very simply,, i did the deal, not a lawyer
    not a real estate agent,

  152. hughesrep says:


    Revel has some serious financing issues. They closed up the exterior, but all the trades were pulled out of the job quite some time ago. They actually went ahead and put up the parking garage though. Seems odd.

    Since they stopped construction I’ve heard of at least three groups who were going to pony up the cash and get it going again, none has.

  153. Veto That says:

    ‘AC has always been sad.”

    I really miss The Sands.
    It was nostalgic. Like walking back in time to the 70s. Even the bell hop had a ciggarette hanging from his lips.

  154. freedy says:

    no i did not mail the keys to chase,
    they did not want them,,

  155. Veto That says:

    freedy, you did your own short sale. you did not walk.

    Will someone please confirm that freedy is not as much as a deadbeat as i hoped?

  156. freedy says:

    veto it became very apparent to me
    that a deal could be worked out with the

    just a matter of who your dealing with at the bank. they just wanted a number and the rest was mine.

  157. Painhrtz says:


    Tell me about it I lived there in the mid 90’s I could have bought the house I lived in on Brigatine for under a hundred grand and it was 8 houses from the beach.

    I’m still kicking myself over that one, though I’m not sure how I would have done it and gone to college at the same time

  158. Who is the biggest dealer in Greek CDS?

    Three guesses.

  159. freedy (160)-

    Hope that “difference” was on your HUD-1.

    Otherwise, you’re confessing to a crime.

  160. Painhrtz says:


  161. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [154] pain,

    there’s a reason they are all virgins.

    Reminds me of a very old joke:

    Q. Why are there so many men in the Soviet army?
    A. Ever see the russian women?

    Kinda like that (though post-communism, Russia has become a much better looking country).

  162. Veto That says:

    “they did not want them.”

    Yeah no kidding Chase didnt want the keys because you already sold the place to a new owner.

    Walking is when you mail the keys to the bank and drive your pick up to your moms house with your flat screen and mattress in the back.

    Instead, you made the bank 95% whole by finding a buyer and settled with them directly on the remaining part that you owed.

    Dammit freedy, you used up 400 posts per day on a damn short sale? lol.

    Did they ding your credit bye even one point?

  163. freedy says:

    of course their was a hud 1,,

  164. freedy says:

    a settlement always dings it, but that can be fixed, you know that,
    besides i got the cash.

    screw the credit score,

  165. Goldman Sachs, Goldman Sachs, Goldman Sachs?

    The Sands did rock, but the rooms were embarrassingly dated and the eating options were worse. They did have great video poker though and you were gambling with real peeps. You almost needed street cred to feel comfortable in there. I had some great kraps runs in there.

  166. freedy (172)-

    Don’t split hairs with me. Was the difference on it?

  167. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Looks like the PPT has rode into town.

    But check back in an hour. Could be a mirage.

  168. Would be ironic if GS ended up paying off all the Greek CDS holders at par.

    That should bolster AIG’s image quite a bit.

  169. freedy says:

    marked as settled,, and thats that.

    the bank did not care,, they got a check

  170. Of course, GS probably has some poor schnook of a counterparty on the line for any uncomfortable moments they experience in the CDS markets.

  171. freedy (178)-

    OK, I’ll just assume you committed a crime.

  172. Oh Freedy. What have you done!

  173. freedy-

    Gonna report that difference to the IRS?

    You need to…you know?

  174. Veto That says:

    “sold to a private buyer. settled with the bank for less than was owed.
    put the difference in my pocket.”

    well that is pretty shady.
    but you made them 95% whole on the mortgage so thats more responsible than a walk.

    clot whats your take in this situation? It doesnt sound nearly as bad as a walk. So he stiffed the bank on $20k-$50k… so what? they prob took 100 points off his fico. right?
    Is that the extent of this?

  175. freedy says:

    i don’t think MGM, wants to be in AC.

    to much regulation ,, and of course
    the hoe women does not help things.

  176. freedy says:

    not worried about the fico,,

  177. Let me say right now that I have no problem with anyone who commits a crime against a big bank.

  178. Bergen County Fraud Investigation Unit says:

    freedy, do you mind if we get your email from grim? we just have a few questions.

  179. Painhrtz says:

    The cheap buffet and the antique slot jockey’s at the showboat were always my favorites. We walked in with large coats and ziploc bags. Well fed college students for 5.99 a week, the rest of my cash was consumed in alcohol, recreational pharmaceuticals and cheap sorority girls.

    That is about as close as I get to a john story.

  180. veto (183)-

    Not so bad…except for (what I suspect) was this “difference”, which freedy probably kept off the HUD-1 and will now subsequently not disclose to the IRS.

    You can jump in anytime here, freedy.

  181. freedy says:

    seems to me everyone was happy at the closing,

  182. Veto That says:

    oh wow. i guess the authorities do patrol this board.

  183. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    This is why I wish a thorough carpet bombing and decimation of all cultures that allow stuff like this to happen.


  184. freedy says:

    code all fully disclosed, on the hud

  185. freedy says:

    thats what i have the attorney’s for

  186. freedy says:

    matter of fact the CPA’s were involved as well.

  187. Veto That says:

    “very simply,, i did the deal, not a lawyer not a real estate agent,”

    freedy this statement completely contradicts your statement at 194.

  188. If anyone can assist me on the whereabouts of a contributor named John who frequents these boards, he is wanted on alleged charges of vegetable abuse.

  189. meter says:

    @180,189 – laughing my ass off

    Also this from the freedster:

    “seems to me everyone was happy at the closing,”

    Not sure if that comma at the end was meant to portend further thought, but you might want to give that (further though) a try.

    Methinks you might be owing the IRS a pound of flesh.

    In other odd/interesting news, a town in Latvia was just auctioned off.

  190. freedy says:

    i’ve closed many many transactions, and
    always want the attorney/CPA involved.

    sort of like Paulson, with BOA,AIG,
    fanny, freddie, etc all on the up and up

  191. freedy says:

    attorney just made sure it was in proper form,,

  192. freedy says:

    i did the deal,not the attorney nor the CPA,nor a broken down real estate agent.

  193. Veto That says:

    freedy did you give the cpa and attorney some of the cash you snuck off with?

  194. USDA (198)-

    Wait a minute. As far as I know, Frank is alive and well.

    “If anyone can assist me on the whereabouts of a contributor named John who frequents these boards, he is wanted on alleged charges of vegetable abuse.”

  195. meter says:

    @192, Still –

    Having lived in and traveled throughout that region plus India for a few years, nothing shocks me any more.

    Not sure if this, or sati, is worse.

  196. freedy says:

    what heat

  197. freedy (201)-

    Oh, so an attorney just came in and signed his name to your work?

    Please refer this attorney to me. :)

  198. freedy is still my hero.

    Run, freedy, run!

  199. Veto That says:

    “what heat”

    freedy i hope you dont mind that this conversation is being recorded.

  200. freedy says:

    not a problem i know how to take a pinch

  201. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Official says Fed might buy more mortgage-backed securities

    By Neil Irwin
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Friday, February 5, 2010

    The Federal Reserve would consider reopening its program to support the mortgage market if interest rates spiked or the economy showed new weakness, Federal Reserve Bank of New York President William C. Dudley said in two new interviews.

    Accurately predicted by the NJrereport.

  202. Veto That says:

    freedy ‘walked’ from a short sale settlement that he did by himself, but hired lawyers for anyway.

    lol, you cant make this up.

  203. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    The number of troubled Georgia banks grew to 64 at the end of last year, as the state’s banking crisis shows no sign of abating.

    Bank failure Friday!!!! Lets get it on.

  204. IRS Agent #007 says:

    Freedy unreported income….

    Please fill out the 3949a form and mail it in.

  205. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [199] meter

    Not sure of details but I think Section 108 was amended last year to exclude from tax COD income from the disposition of a qualified residence.

    So Freedy would be free and clear of the taxman for COD if it applies.

    Don’t know for certain; need to review the statute and freedy facts, and I don’t really have time for either.

  206. Veto That says:

    freedy, i just held up a bank.
    yeah i walked right up to the teller and gave her my account number and told her to put the money in the bag.

    F them. yeah and then i stiffed the cable company too, yeah right after i paid them in full. Screw them. they wouldnt lower my bill so i paid them.


  207. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Though I will be on the phone with the IRS shortly (I hope) and can certainly ask them about freedy.

  208. freedy says:

    have them give me a call or em,,Comrade
    is correct.

  209. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:


    frank IS a vegetable… John fu.cks vegetables.

    Maybe frank and John should get together and partaay?


  210. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Englewood NJ proposes 10.5% tax hike

    “The U.S. government is so desperate to hide the severity of the U.S. economic collapse, that it has gone past the point of plausible exaggeration to ridiculous fiction. The only thing more outrageous than the magnitude of U.S. lies is that (apparently) virtually no one is noticing this totally, transparent propaganda.”

  211. RayC says:

    Hey Everybody!! Don’t scare off future con men from entertaining us with their crimes by announcing you’ll turn them in! Just post a Craig’s List Ad with their contact info – last we’ll hear about them until they exhume the body.

  212. “and then i stiffed the cable company”

    When I returned the set-top box, I first took the batteries out of the remote. Suckaz!

  213. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Marc Faber, author of Gloom Boom and Doom Report says many Western governments would eventually follow the US ‘inevitable’ default suit. Outspoken investor and writer Marc Faber doesn’t give America much time before it goes bust.

    “All the world will eventually go bankrupt except probably in the emerging economies……India Russia and China have no interests that the USA will succeed in Afghanistan so the war will go on and eventually will expand and when war breaks out the sky is the limit for commodity prices…we can go back to the gold standard but we have to revalue the gold price to something like one million dollar an ounce “

  214. freedy says:

    na, i forgot the batteries,, got the cables

  215. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    meter, 207

    My brain fails to comprehend such things.

    I hope they convict all three of them — they should be buried alive for her murder.


  216. PGC says:

    “I upped my long position in my 401k from 50% to 75% post-market close today.”

    I’m still 90% bonds and stable value. I’m sitting out and will be out until the next big wave down or may start to average back in around October.

  217. Chase Bank says:

    mr freedy,

    this is not the story that your lawyer represented in the settlement.

    our lawyer will call your lawyer.

  218. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Market rocketing back….

    “There’s life in the old girl yet!” ha ha ha

    Second best line in “Interview with the Vampire”

    Just picture Tom Cruise as Lestat dancing with a rotting corpse… :)


  219. chicagofinance says:

    cover yer short sir….

  220. PGC,

    I could be wrong. I am well aware of that. My experience tells me that the time to get back in is when the climate is the gloomiest. Especially when we just printed and spent 6 trillion to get things going again. The market is still down over 40% from its peak. I hope I’m right :P

  221. using another handle says:

    njescapee says:
    February 4, 2010 at 11:36 am

    man, this is some thread. take it from a nj escapee, there is life after jersey. so we don’t have wegmans and fancy malls. get off that treadmill and you’ll be fine. people are actually pretty nice in other places.

    it isn’t like you have to go far. Bucks County

  222. freedy says:

    what a crowd

  223. Mr Hyde says:

    Sl 227

    nope not buried alive

    …Staked alive next to a fire ant mound or an army ant colony.

  224. #233 – it isn’t like you have to go far. Bucks County

    Duchess county is beautiful as well. Lots of great old farm houses. Hell, lots of Essex is still the same way.

  225. Mr Hyde says:


    and put a snug mask on the guys, so that the ants cant suffocate them by crawling into their lungs. That way the get eaten alive over several days.

  226. #239 – You’re right. I’m really thinking of Warren ans Sussex.

  227. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Man, what a reversal. I guess the PPT did show up.

  228. freedy says:

    sure did

  229. There as much proof of a PPT as there is that Jesus rose from the grave.

    Of course, that does not stop there from being a lot of Christians.

  230. John says:

    ppt did not show up.

  231. meter says:

    @243 – the parting of the Red Sea = much more believable.

  232. freedy says:

    fighting to keep it above 10k ,, cant do it for now

  233. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Hyde, 238

    Hear hear. I fail to understand what makes people think “it’s okay because it’s upholding our religion.”

    Then again, I’m sure there are those who’d think I am barbaric for having my son’s foreskin cut off.


  234. freedy says:

    bk’s for small firms up 50% not good

  235. “@243 – the parting of the Red Sea = much more believable.”

    Absolutely. Were you chosen?

  236. freedy says:

    they got it over 10k , the ppt in action

  237. freedy says:

    closed it over 10 a few phone calls where made.

  238. meter says:

    @249 –

    Chosen for kickball team? Yep.

    Chosen to not eat bacon and wear a goofy hat on my head? Nope.

    Raised Christian and rejected that nonsense early on.

    Religion = poison.

  239. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Stu 234

    Wow!! That is cool! *is my geekness showing?*


  240. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    meter, 252

    Religion* = poison.


    Is it wrong to say “Amen to that?” :)


  241. stu (234)-

    Where are the crosshairs and the missile coordinates?

  242. Pat says:

    crap. If that’s really supposed to be a service to the citizenry, they need to aim that camera down into the parking lot in the front so as I can see if there are any free parking spots left during the weekend.

  243. Save this screenshot, and show it to your grandkids. They can take it to history class…if there’s even such a thing as school around at that point.

    “As can be seen on the SPY IOIA screen below, JPM’s ETF desk singlehandedly manages to push market higher. It is unknown if this is for prop positions (yes Senator Corker, we know it when we see it), or flow (JPM is RenTec’s. and many other quant funds’ Prime Dealer) is unknown. What is known is that JPM indicates every single SPY offer was lifted by its sage trader.”

    No, Dorothy, there is no such thing as the PPT…

  244. Pat says:

    now, I’m just frustrated.

  245. Chase Bank says:

    7 U.S. States That Are Worse Off Than Greece, Portgal, Ireland, and Spain

    The seven states to make my list are California, Florida, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, North Carolina, and New Jersey. Each has a population above 8 million people. Each has had to borrow more than a billion dollars, so far, to pay claims out of their now bankrupt unemployment insurance fund. Also, each state currently registers broad, underemployment above 15% as indicated by the U-6 measure for the States. And finally, each state is a large net importer of either oil, natural gas, electricity, or all three of these energy sources.,spy,tlt,gld,xlv,tbt

  246. Veto That says:

    ha from Chase Bank. thats great.

  247. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [260] chase bank

    Rut roh!

  248. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    And on that happy note, I am out.

    Peace, love and Voosh, y’all.

  249. Time to load up on NJ CDS.

  250. PGC says:

    #264 Clot

    Just don’t bet on Timmy paying Par.

  251. using another handle says:

    Painhrtz says:
    February 4, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    PLG to capture what a moron you are here is a brief paraphrasing summary of your posts.

    PLG (52) The article is wrong high demand to live in NJ. Tax receipts not rich voting with their feet the problem is unemployment.

    Who provides the jobs again?

    PLG (61) unemployment is high, but thanks to the retirees leaving it will open up opportunities in overcrowded NJ.

    I thought unemployment was at 10 percent. What incentive would companies have to backfill retirees in a contracting economy?

    PLG (83) Article is a sky is falling cassandra. Out of touch with reality. People still want to live here. Nj has the best public transportation. Cali public trans is a joke.


    PLG (118) Jobs are leaving the country not just NJ.

    I never said they were staying in the US. Personally if I had the cash I would be making my home in New Zealand or Argentina but hey I’m not rich.

    PLG (118 cont) blah blah blah Bart is a city wide system. You then cite PATH as an example.

    which multi point destination does PATH support again. F@ck New York city. Why is it any greater than people getting around San Fran?

    PLG (126) Because of mass transit and I quote ” NJ real estate even with double the property tax bill, is still worth more than real estate in PA. how do you explain the demand”

    I’m sure some of the suburbs for Philly on the PA side would disagree with this statement.

    PLG (135) quote “if it makes you feel better Cali has great public transportation. Cali is still a high tax state. Texas has low taxes but don’t try to catch a train.”

    By the way Houston, San Antonio, Austin and Dallas Fort Worth have great bus systems. Last time I checked they still have trains in Texas too. It is this funny thing called AMTRAK!! Maybe you have heard of it. Have you ever left NJ?

    PLG (151) “I’m not saying prices can’t fall or NJ is different (see quote 126) NJ prices will probably fall but not more than any other state.

    No kidding, really once again have you left NJ? The west coast and Florida are f#$king real estate wastelands. Foreclosures dominate the news. The government had to bail out a good number of the banks. About 30 states are on the edge of bankruptcy and all you can come up with is this wishy washy statement.

    Wake up, NJ is nuked! Game over, we are all fu(ked!!

    Good day sir!

    wow. you got served.
    stop the fight!
    stop the fight!

  252. meter says:

    The funniest and strangest thing I’ve read in a long while (about

    Could be one of the four horsemen.

  253. meter says:

    From that article:

    “The site activates your webcam automatically; when you click “start” you’re suddenly staring at another human on your screen and they’re staring back at you, at which point you can either choose to chat (via text or voice) or just click “next,” instantly calling up someone else. The result is surreal on many levels. Early ChatRoulette users traded anecdotes on comment boards with the eerie intensity of shipwreck survivors, both excited and freaked out by what they’d seen. There was a man who wore a deer head and opened every conversation with “What up DOE!?” A guy from Sweden was reportedly speed-drawing strangers’ portraits. Someone with a guitar was improvising songs for anyone who’d give him a topic. One man popped up on people’s screens in the act of fornicating with a head of lettuce. Others dressed like ninjas, tried to persuade women to expose themselves, and played spontaneous transcontinental games of Connect Four. Occasionally, people even made nonvirtual connections: One punk-music blogger met a group of people from Michigan who ended up driving eleven hours to crash at his house for a concert in New York. And then, of course, fairly often, there was this kind of thing: “I saw some hot chicks then all of a sudden there was a man with a glass in his butthole.

    I entered the fray on a bright Wednesday afternoon, with an open mind and an eager soul, ready to sound my barbaric yawp through the webcams of the world. I left absolutely crushed. It turns out that ChatRoulette, in practice, is brutal. The first eighteen people who saw me disconnected immediately. They appeared, one by one, in a box at the top of my screen—a young Asian man, a high-school-age girl, a guy lying on his side in bed—and, every time, I’d feel a little flare of excitement. Every time, they’d leave without saying a word. Sometimes I could even watch them reach down, in horrifying real-time, and click “next.” It was devastating. My first even semi-successful interaction was with a guy with a blanket draped over his lap who asked if I wanted to “jack of” with him. I declined; he disconnected. Over the course of an hour, I was rejected by what felt like a cast of thousands: a teenage girl talking on her cell phone, a close-up of an eyeball. It started to feel like a social-anxiety nightmare. One guy just stared into the camera and flipped me off. Another stood in front of his computer making wave motions with his hands, refusing to respond to anything I typed. One person had the courtesy to give me, before disconnecting, a little advice: “too old.” (I’m 32.) A girl with heavy makeup looked terrified when my image popped up on her screen—I actually felt guilty, a few rounds later, when the engine of randomness threw us back together and she had to look at my face for another excruciating half-second. My longest exchange was with a guy who seemed to be wearing one of those protective cones you put on a dog after surgery. “LICK YOU ELBOW,” he typed. “Why?” I asked. He disconnected.

    I got off the ChatRoulette wheel determined never to get back on. I hadn’t felt this socially trampled since I was an overweight 12-year-old struggling to get through recess without having my shoes mocked. It was total e-visceration. If this was the future of the Internet, then the future of the Internet obviously didn’t include me.”

  254. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:


    did you notice:

    One man popped up on people’s screens in the act of fornicating with a head of lettuce.

  255. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    scibe, 269

    ya sure it was lettuce? (John? maybe?)


  256. gary says:

    [50] d2b

    “Sitting in a benefits meeting. Employee costs are going up 13%. CRAP!”

    Benefits? What are benefits?

  257. gary says:

    3b [119],

    Does that thing have a f*cking dirt floor?

  258. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    BFF! Underway!

    Community Development Bank, FSB, Ogema, Minnesota, Assumes All of the Deposits of 1st American State Bank of Minnesota, Hancock, Minnesota


    PS HI GARY!!

  259. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    BFF Underway!!

    Only a 3.1 M hit…. and HI GARY!!! :)

    Community Development Bank, FSB, Ogema, Minnesota, Assumes All of the Deposits of 1st American State Bank of Minnesota, Hanc0ck, Minnesota


  260. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Got moderated… for a “c0ck”… go figure…


  261. gary says:


    What up, yo! :)

  262. After 7 PM on BFF…where are my goddam failures????

    I’m not here to talk about schtupping lettuce.

  263. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    You should volunteer for the Verichip. The mark of the beast is just a fairy tail anyway right?

  264. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:


    That ain’t hidden valley ranch….


  265. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    “There is a great upheaval coming.

    That upheaval will either come from your stomach voluntarily……to get rid of the crap…….or it will be a “foreign made” stomach pump ……induced without your cooperation.”

  266. PGC says:

    Clot, Just for you

    “Newcastle yet again proved they are out of our league and the rest of the teams in the Championship”


  267. frank says:

    If you look at London, prices may not fall far in NY, but they may go up very soon. So buy a house now.

    “Overall, British prices have only fallen about 12% from the peak. When compared to household incomes, they stand far higher than they did even in 1989, at the peak of the last property bubble.”

  268. cobbler says:

    Quite depressing. Started on a new job Monday, and in exchange for a measly 10% more pay don’t have any time left to read this blog during the work hours (when most of the good stuff comes up).

  269. Pat says:

    Look, Clotschtumpred, we have a sitcheewation down heah.

    Be glad you got one. Everybody hit the road at like eleven.

  270. PGC (280)-

    Toon back to the Prem next year! It’s a lock.

    (Probably shouldn’t say that after ’96, but King Kev is nowhere near this group).

    Terry also sacked as England skipper. The armband goes to Ferdinand. Hope he doesn’t miss any drug tests.

    Funny thing, but you could actually make a good argument that they should never have taken the armband from Beckham.

  271. Pat says:


    I am like leaning into the wind, guys. Trying to get some animals safe. Hoping nobody nice got stuck in a crappy office in DC this weekend. Well, I even hope that crook-looking guy Ben got out.

  272. pat (285)-

    Didja see the thing on CNBC earlier today where they showed a picture of Bergabe to a player at the Super Bowl and asked him if he knew who it was?

    The player said, “he’s a crook”.

  273. If Ferdinand screws up, then the armband goes to “Barfighter” Stevie Gerrard.

    England will never win another World Cup. The players there are pretty much all hardc0re thugs.

  274. Cindy says:

    My guess is they will be playing “Won’t Get Fooled Again.”

  275. Veto That says:

    Frank, No, dont buy a house.
    That article you posted is saying this:

    “The London real estate bubble, arguably the biggest one of all, still hasn’t popped. If history is any guide, it surely will. Burst bubbles typically fall a long way, in due course, and there is no reason to believe this one will be any different.”

  276. pg says:

    With regard to yesterday’s thread, I posted the Princeton study, which is comment 420:

    For anyone interested in the Princeton study here is the link:

    Here is the summary of that study:

    “This study provides an empirical analysis of recent migration into and out of New Jersey. We focus on the social and demographic characteristics of migrants in order to inform public policy. While New Jersey has much to do to ensure the future vitality of the state and its residents, the state’s ability to attract and retain a highly educated and highly compensated workforce remains strong.”

  277. plg says:

    More from the Princeton study:

    “In broad terms, the data indicate, first, that out‐migration from New Jersey to other states is driven by low‐income individuals; and second, that the state is seeing a modest net “brain gain” of highly educated people moving into New Jersey. The data also indicate that the high cost of living (and especially the high cost of housing) is the main factor that leads to the state’s net out‐migration.
    The impact of the “half‐millionaire tax” on the migration of New Jersey’s
    wealthiest households is small.”

  278. PGC says:

    #287 Clot

    I can’t see Steve Me getting it and I’m not sure Rio will make the team.

    I think you may see Wes Brown as he is probably the only player that will start every game. Although don’t rule Beckham out as a long shot.

  279. plg says:

    What this study shows, in contrast to the Boston University study is that there is an important difference between wealthy individuals and high-income people.

    The BU study showed that wealthy people are leaving. (retirees) What the Princeton study shows is that NJ is still attracting high-income earners.

    Interestingly NJ taxes income, not wealth. So in terms of tax receipts the loss of tax revenue is not the result of migration. It is the result of an economic crisis.

    Second, this shows that retirees (low income, high wealth individuals) are leaving the state and being replaced with high-income, low wealth individuals.

    I say the American dream is alive and well in NJ and when you succeed you take your wealth to Florida.

  280. Firestormik says:

    Is it depressing? Wake up, I’ve been always wondering how people have time to blog here during the work hours

    cobbler says:
    February 5, 2010 at 8:20 pm
    Quite depressing. Started on a new job Monday, and in exchange for a measly 10% more pay don’t have any time left to read this blog during the work hours (when most of the good stuff comes up).

  281. Not feeding the troll tonight.

  282. PGC (292)-

    I think the armband is Ferdinand’s to lose. Of course, SAF could overuse him when he comes back, and he’ll be out for S Africa.

    However, Capello has already said Barfighter is his next choice.

    Wonder why they don’t look toward Lampard. At least he’s not a straight-up convict, and you can’t say he’s not a gamer. Maybe his difficulty in playing alongside Gerrard has diminished him within the team.

    They could honestly do worse than making Beckham captain again, starting him and replacing him at the half. For short periods of time, he is still a quality player.

  283. Would dearly love to see our boys put one on England.

  284. Salty Steve says:

    easy question:

    500k for a moderately updated bi-level 4br 2.5ba in Livingston on 1/4 acre.

    Overpriced? fairly valued?

    Let’s make this easy. { Overpriced, fair, underpriced }

    take a swig of your drink and make a claim

  285. Barbara says:

    need more info, this isnt 2005 when it was all about sq ft and details be damned. vintage? siding: brick, stone? wood floors: fur, oak, walnut if any? wood floors on both levels? wood work and moldings, thick 4 inches wide plus or twee stick moldings (if any moldings)?
    Furnace age? Gas or oil? Tank buried or in basement? Age of roof?

  286. lisoosh says:

    still_looking aka Tan-Less says:
    February 5, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    “That ain’t hidden valley ranch….



  287. gary says:

    Salty Steve [299],

    How about, f*cking ridiculous to be asking $500,000 for a bi-level. The sellers need to be b1tch-slapped and taught a lesson in eceonomics. No, wait, better yet…. let them ride the market down month after month and have to settle for a 340K price tag due to their arrogance, ignorance and stupidity.

  288. Barbara says:

    I like 302 Gary’s answer better

    What Gary Said.

  289. Salty Steve says:

    (300) Barbara

    yeah, I know what you mean…

    tried to oversimplify by saying “moderadtely updated”. Let’s say it means 3 out of 4 on recent roof, water heater, gas furnace, A/C. Also virtually no skeletons in closet like buried old aging tanks or anything like that.
    typical larger sized bi-level w 2 ca garage around 2300 sq. feet.

  290. Barbara says:

    by typical Im going to put it at 1968, tract house. I would not want to own it at 300k.

  291. Salty Steve says:


    …interesting take Mr. Gary

    in general, in 1992 250k would get you similar bi-level in Livingston. was 1992 crack-pipe time as well? (I really am asking a question as I do not know wtf was going on in 92)

  292. Barbara says:

    but thats me and my taste, I think realestate professionals on here(not me) will chime in and give you a fairer answer.

  293. Salty Steve says:

    …actually slight correction… equivalent house sold for 240k in 1994. wtf was real-estate like in 94…

    is 240k in 1994 same as 500k in 2010? sounds crazy to say that…

  294. Pat says:

    Steve, the bilevel is obviously worth 725k.

    Especially if the downstairs basement room has that blue carpeting like in the bathroom the other day.

    Mine was a really big swig. I was thirsty after shoveling.

  295. Pat says:

    Look, does the house “speak” to you?

  296. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    I think circa 1977 bilevels are the ugliest homes ever built. They are littered all over NJ. If you could sell the appliances and the land is worth 500k go ahead and buy. Otherwise stay away and like Gary said, “Knock the seller out with a clown shoe.”

  297. I suspect most people make the same amount of money now as they were making in 1994. Also, the property taxes on a crapbox in Livingston were probably closer to $3,000 then.

    Hence, anyone who shells out 500K to live amongst the nebbishes should have his head examined.

    Yes, I am still a Realtor.

  298. RE was slow death in 1994.

    In other words, better than now.

  299. Pat says:

    Maybe it’s a sugar maple bilevel.

  300. Shore glad I am not in DC now Guy says:
  301. Shore glad I am not in DC now Guy says:




  302. PGC says:

    #292 Clot

    This sums up Fat Frank for me, all the style, but misses the finish.

  303. cobbler says:

    firestormik [294]
    I never (or almost never) posted during the work hours, but I used to have enough small breaks to read the blog more or less as it had been coming up. Now, because I sort of got addicted to it, I am spending 2 hrs at home in the evening going through 400 posts.

  304. Shore glad I am not in DC now Guy says:

    A stake through the heart of Palin’s political aspirations?

  305. Shore Guy says:

    Guy goes into a bar, there’s a robot bartender.
    The robot says, “What will you have?”
    The guy says, “Martini.”

    The robot brings back the best martini ever and says to the man,
    “What’s your IQ?”
    The guy says, “168.”
    The robot then proceeds to talk about physics, space exploration and medical technology.
    The guy leaves, but he is curious…
    So he goes back into the bar.
    The robot bartender says, “What will you have?”
    The guy says, “Martini.”
    Again, the robot makes a great martini gives it to the man and says,
    “What’s your IQ?”
    The guy says, “100.”
    The robot then starts to talk about Nascar, Budweiser and John Deere tractors.
    The guy leaves, but finds it very interesting, so he thinks he will try it one more time.
    He goes back into the bar.
    The robot says, “What will you have?”
    The guy says, “Martini,” and the robot brings him another great martini.
    The robot then says, “What’s your IQ?”
    The guy says, “Uh, about 50.”
    The robot leans in real close and says,
    “So, you people still happy you voted for Obama?”

  306. Firestormik says:


    For me it’s ~50 minutes on the train to NYC in the morning and 1 hr on the way back if nothing bad happends in the office.

    cobbler says:
    February 5, 2010 at 11:57 pm
    firestormik [294]
    I never (or almost never) posted during the work hours, but I used to have enough small breaks to read the blog more or less as it had been coming up. Now, because I sort of got addicted to it, I am spending 2 hrs at home in the evening going through 400 posts.

  307. Firestormik says:

    Snowing again….
    Will have a lot of fun tomorrow. NJ drivers are pathetic when it’s snowing. They think 4×4 solves everything

  308. 320 Shore
    That’s the dumbest sh!t I’ve ever seen. The principal and whomever else decided the arrest her should be on suspension. Absolutely ridiculous.

  309. Blogger says:

    Just want to say your article is striking. The clarity in your post is simply striking and i can take for granted you are an expert on this subject. Well with your permission allow me to grab your rss feed to keep up to date with forthcoming post. Thanks a million and please keep up the ac complished work. Excuse my poor English. English is not my mother tongue.

  310. Essex says:

    327. Shaddup stoopid.

  311. safeashouses says:

    #299 salty steve

    Is this the house you were asking about?

    It’s been reduced from 498k to 449k.

    It’s also on Northfield, which is one of the busiest streets in Livingston.

  312. Shore (322)-

    Palin would be better off if she were hearing barking dogs and random voices in her head.

  313. Veto That says:

    “500k for a moderately updated bi-level 4br 2.5ba in Livingston.
    Overpriced? fairly valued?”

    Salty, NJ Median HH income in 2006 was $66K, in 1994 it was 56K.
    Thats a 19% increase in median income over 12 years.

    Now, you say in 1994 that house was worth $240k. If it was $500k today, the house appreciated over 100% over that same time period. Do we really think homes should appreciate 5x faster than incomes?

    Bye the way, 1992 was basically the bottom of the 1988 crash in nominal terms.

    Also, if you dont care about historicals, think of the avg hh income for that town in this economy. Lets say its very strong at 100k and lets also say that the avg person has 100k in cash downpayment. Now ask yourself, in this economy is the avg person willing to buy a home at 5x annual income? The 30 yr Historical NJ avg is more like 3.3x.

    I would say that place is overvalued.

  314. lost (326)-

    They should taser the principal in front of the kids, a la The Hangover.

  315. Veto That says:

    Salty, what are the recent comps showing for a house like that?

  316. Wife reports 100 applicants for a part-time teacher’s assistant at her school. Pay is about $80/day, no bennies. Most of the time, TAs trail autistic/LD/violent students. Not an easy job.

    Green shoots? Does anybody even hear that phrase anymore?

    BTW, I’ve decided to vote next election. Against every incumbent on the ballot.

  317. Veto (333)-

    I wouldn’t even go by comps in a place like Livingston. I think the chances of the bottom falling out in a town like that are about 100%. Taxes are crippling, it ain’t that great a place to live to begin with, and the local gubmint is Montclair-lite, which means they will do everything possible to make matters worse…and continue to be elected by the large, self-loathing/white guilt/Jewish liberal locals.

    I spent a good three years in the late ’90s moving much of Livingston to Hunterdon Co. When they got here, they acted like they’d gotten out of prison.

    When that place crashes, it may go all the way back to 1992-94 prices.

  318. I would say that pretty much anyone living in a trendy Essex Co town is suffering from some degree of self-loathing.

  319. Veto That says:

    Clot, if half of your observations are as on point as they sound, your (and hyde’s) 1998 price crash prediction sounds more and more possible.

  320. 332 Clot
    Now that’s something worthy of a picture.

  321. Veto That says:

    The one downside of not living in linden that i can think of is there is no out of work drunkards knocking on your door offering to shovel your whole driveweay for $10 whiskey money.

  322. willwork4beer says:

    334 Clot/TCCR

    That was my strategy during the last election. Worked with Corzine, the others not so much.

    Seemed like every other one of the criminals was re-elected. But I’m still sticking with the ballot box for now. When I’m ready to go to the cartridge box, you’ll be among the first to know.

  323. meter says:

    “BTW, I’ve decided to vote next election. Against every incumbent on the ballot.”

    Ditto. I’ll be holding my nose voting ‘R’ just to send a message. Not that these slimeballs are any better.

    Lather, rinse, repeat. Maybe single terms is what we should have anyway.

  324. crossroads says:

    does anyone have knowledge about prefab houses? This one was built in 1981 don’t know what the quality would have been like back then

  325. veto (339)-

    I’d pay a bum a bottle of whiskey right now to shovel my driveway.

  326. x-roads (342)-

    The best manufactured houses are of extremely high quality. They can also be customized to an incredible extent.

    Some of the top manufacturers are in PA and have showrooms, I think. Google around and see what you find.

  327. crossroads says:


    I know prefabs have come a long way but what was the quality in 1981?? the listing is saying 6″ walls efficient electric heat. the 6″ walls is telling me prefab and I’m questioning the quality from 1981

  328. PGC says:

    Here is a great read for a cold snowy day. While I’m not sure I agree with everything, they touch on a lot of areas and give a great perspective on how we got here and how to move forward.

    In their discussion paper, The Road to Long Finance: A Systems View of the Credit Scrunch, Michael Mainelli and Bob Giffords have laid out a provocative analysis of the global financial crisis in an attempt to widen the debate. The authors have worked hard to raise some new arguments, dismiss some old ones and change the priorities for others. They point out the dangers of an over-zealous regulatory reaction and of trampling over competition in the name of emergency measures, and they argue that a healthy system must be more diverse. Their key point is the importance of competition in open markets to prevent “too big to fail is too big to regulate”, and they encourage more radical investigation of Long Finance.

  329. gary says:

    Speaking of jobs: It’s bad out there. I’m getting the bottom of the muck with these contracting positions. You either eat sh1t while getting treated like sh1t or you don’t work at all. And BTW, company paid benefits will be phased out for ALL private sector jobs within the next 5 to 10 years.

  330. Salty Steve says:

    Take a look at 500k – 600k Livingston… All bilevels and splits… ?

  331. safeashouses says:

    #335 clot,

    Are you saying you wouldn’t pay 396k for this?

    Come on. The new town hall in Livingston for 30 million is a beauty. Well worth the increased taxes. It’s for the employees, I mean residents you know.

  332. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:


    Is is snowing by you?

    I am heading that direction this afternoon… we have no snow here so I need to figure if I need extra travel time…


  333. chicagofinance says:

    Q: If one is going to spell Phyllis with an “F”, why include the “H”?

    349.safeashouses says:
    February 6, 2010 at 10:16 am
    #335 clot,

    Are you saying you wouldn’t pay 396k for this?

    Come on. The new town hall in Livingston for 30 million is a beauty. Well worth the increased taxes. It’s for the employees, I mean residents you know.

  334. chicagofinance says:

    Eastern Monmouth is about 6-8 inches, with more still coming…..much better than the 22 Colts Neck received in December….

  335. Veto That says:

    “I’d pay a bum a bottle of whiskey right now to shovel my driveway.”

    most likely would have to offer a bologna sandwich too, no?

  336. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Completely OT:

    Can anyone recommend a (preferably free) program to remove duplicate files?

    Also – recommend a good external drive to back up computer to (reliable, reasonably priced, etc?)

    Thanks, in advance


  337. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    Not a snow flake in Vernon, go figure.

  338. d2b says:

    We have 16 inches of snow outside. I am 5 miles north Philadelphia. Everything is pretty much shut down for the day. We live in a great township and I would bet that we will be able to get out tonight if we wanted to.

  339. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    All set for the storm & no storm. Putting on a pot a Maryland Blue Crab gravy today.Commence chopping garlic in 1 hour.

  340. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    d2b was not expecting to get a lot 4-6. 16 in already wow, stay in drink & cook.Well maybe not in that order.

  341. Sean says:


    I use a Western Digital Passport Essential – Portable Hard Drive
    1 Terabyte of storage and it uses USB cable, and it comes with free software to do backups.

    Best Buy sells it for $180 for the 1 Terabyte model.

    I like the drive because it fits inside my fire safe, and it is the size of a fat wallet which will fit in your back pocket.

  342. willwork4beer says:


    I’m about 15 miles south of Clot in southern Hunterdon County. We have about 8 inches of snow here. Stil snowing but appears to be tapering off.

  343. using another handle says:

    a few commenters here over the last couple years have said the US is turning Japanese (in regards to the lost decade, economy, etc)

    of course, there’s a great 80s song called ‘turning japanese’ by the vapors. heard it last night at a party – its catchy and infectious

  344. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:

    no snow in Queens, though it’s freezing

  345. using another handle says:

    PLG needs to take NJ for what it is: a bedroom community for NYC.

    NYC flushes a toilet, and if Staten Island doesn’t get it, New Jersey does.

    in no way, shape or form is it attractive to potential companies looking to relocate, or prospective home buyers.

    want a slightly newer house with more land and significantly lower taxes? move to connecticut or bucks county. the school dropoff isn’t that significant.

    Christie has mission impossible.

  346. A.West says:

    Closed on my new house in Bridgewater yesterday. Went smoothly.
    Who wants to bid on my 4br 3ba bilevel in Scotch Plains? It will be in the 4s.

  347. 3b says:

    Reading Mr. Krugman’s Op-Ed piece in yesterday’s NY Times. What a little shite he is. All during Bush’s administration he raised the alarm that Bush’s defecit spending was going to destroy the conuntry. Obama does the same and then some, and now all of a sudden defecits don’t matter.

  348. safe (349)-

    Worthy of a cruise missile.

  349. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Thank you to



    and Firestormik

    (trying to conserve bandwith :)


  350. still (350)-

    It’s stopped.

  351. Veto That says:

    congrats west,
    when did you buy your scotch plains home? and will you make a profit on it?

  352. Veto That says:

    3b, i wont defend krugman but deficit spending has very different effects when its done in a deep recession vs when its done in a boom.
    i know his track record is politically charged though so i wouldnt doubt if he’s twisting things.

  353. Krugman is a tool and a communist. Definitely should be hanged from the gallows when sane people get control of things.

    This is now my new hope. It may not happen in my lifetime, but judging from the attitude of my kids, their generation will not conscience the planetload of shit we’re dumping on them.

  354. using another handle says:

    Safeashouses says:
    February 4, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    #317 toyne

    njtransit does an excellent job of moving illegal aliens from their boarding house to the restaurants/homes/landscaping they work at.


  355. I also believe that lots of people will need to be executed. Just to stop the stupidity from reproducing and to set an example.

  356. No accident that one of the plagues upon Egypt was the death of the firstborn males.

  357. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    bandwidth even… sigh. need more coffee.


  358. using another handle says:

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    February 4, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    [363] juice box

    Yeah, you got me. I’m going LDS (good one, BTW).

    The YFZ compound is roughly the right idea, but I am thinking more along the lines of cohesive community rather than strategic hamlets. Theoretically, we won’t need a perimeter wall. Long sight lines for observation posts should suffice.

    def need a perimeter. lines of sight key, but have you seen I am Legend? Will Smith set up a great perimeter so when those zombies showed up, he was able to take out a great many of them in one fell swoop.

  359. Shore don't like shoveling Guy says:

    Sannibel/Captiva are sounding more attractive by the day.

  360. Shore Guy says:

    As likely the only person here who has not seen the Jeesey Shore show, I have a question. Are any of the highlighted miscreants actually from the shore or are they just a bunch of brain-dead, classless, bennies who descend on the Shore like a plague of over-drunk land over-sexed locusts?

  361. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    Shore 379 latter.

  362. yo'me says:

    More Failed Airthmetic at the WSJ

    It’s often said that everyone in Washington is so smart that they skipped directly from 2nd grade to 4th grade. This explains why so many people in top positions don’t know third grade arithmetic.

    The WSJ gave us another example of this lack of knowledge when it listed Medicare and Social Security as “the U.S.’s biggest budget busters.” In fact, those of us who did sit through third grade know that Social Security actually is running an annual surplus. The amount of money it takes in each year on the designated Social Security tax and the interest it collects on its bonds exceeds what it pays out in benefits.

    While Medicare’s costs are rising rapidly due to the broken private health care system, Social Security is a money loser in the same way as IPOD is for Apple.

    –Dean Baker

  363. yo'me says:

    Tell the NYT, Walking Away from Underwater Mortgages Is Good for the Economy

    In the middle of an article discussing the likelihood that homeowners who are underwater in their mortgages would just walk away and turn over the house to bank, the NYT tells readers that: “doing nothing about underwater mortgages could encourage more walk-aways, dealing another blow to a fragile economy.”

    It is not clear on what evidence the NYT is basing the assertion that more people defaulting on their mortgages would damage the economy because none is presented. In fact, this is likely to benefit the economy since if people stop paying mortgages on homes that have fallen in value since the collapse of the bubble, and decide to rent instead, it is likely to free up thousands of dollars a year for each family. If millions of homeowners made this decision it could lead to tens of billions of dollars in additional consumption, providing a substantial boost to the economy. The decision of homeowners to walk away might be bad news for banks, but it is good news for the economy.

    In this respect it is worth noting that the Obama administration’s mortgage modification programs are likely hurting the economy by encouraging underwater homeowners to keep paying mortgages that far exceed the rent they would pay on a comparable unit. In addition, these programs use taxpayer dollars that could in principle be used for health care, education or other important purposes.

    –Dean Baker

  364. yo'me says:

    Free Traders Want Banks to Take Their Risky Activities Overseas

    According to the NYT, when the Senate Banking Committee heard testimony by Paul Volcker on his proposal to restrict proprietary trading by commercial banks, Senator Bob Corker expressed concern that the restrictions would cause banks to move overseas. It appears as though Mr. Corker implied that this would be a bad thing.

    In fact, if banks who want to engage in risky behavior move their operations overseas we should view this as a positive. The explicit and implicit support that governments give to their banks is a form of subsidy. The subsidy is larger if the banks are allowed to take excessive risks. If other countries allow their banks to take bigger risks than would be allowed in the United States, then people and businesses in the United States can take advantage of their more lax regulation. If things turn out badly, then these other countries will end up picking up the tab for their banks, just as did Iceland.

    This is an argument for effective regulation in the United States, not an argument against it. The NYT should have noted Mr. Corker’s apparent confusion on this issue.

    –Dean Baker

  365. cobbler says:

    yo’me [382]
    Rhetorically, Dean Baker sounds good. However, the situation is like this: there are 10 houses in the neighborhood. Assume 5 are mortgage free, which is realistic for many towns. People perceive that their houses are worth say 500K – so if each of them has 200K in 401k plan, they feel they have 700K in savings, and don’t need to save much – thus no savings outside of 401k plans. Now, one (mortgaged) guy forecloses or walks away, and the bank sells his house at say 300K. Suddenly, each of the 5 mortgage-free owners feels they need to get themselves another 200K in savings. As a result, composite consumption from the 5 financially sound families drops much more than it increases for 1 that got itself from under the mortgage burden.

  366. cobbler says:

    code red [372]
    I guess, an educated person you are knows the difference between the communists and social democrats. Many people here (I guess, the majority if they were not conditioned to react negatively to the word “socialism” in any context) would love to live and work in say Holland, except for the climate; very few are masoch1stic enough to enjoy a long-term stay in North Korea. Flatter, Euro-type income distribution makes for a happier society, and the one which is more likely to agree on the common goals – rather than being at each other’s throats as we see here and now. Krugman is a social democrat; as far as I know, the only two regimes that were executing them (as you suggest) were Hitler’s and Stalin’s.

  367. A.West says:

    I bought in 2000, so should get more than I paid for it. But that doesn’t equal profit. We redid all bathrooms, re-roofed, replaced all windows, ac&furnace, updated the whole ground floor, and probably spent $100k on home improvement over the decade. So we’ll probably not break even after taking into consideration all costs. No big deal, as I’ve always considered housing a dis-investment, and budgeted accordingly.

  368. leftwing says:

    Anyone out there close to Princeton?

    What’s the weather like?


    Thinking of coming down in a few hours…

  369. Essex says:

    386. Same here, but man we like he upgrades.

  370. PGC says:

    I just finished the report I linked to in #346 (slow day, stuck at work). That gets a big WOW. It hits a lot of areas from Madoff, Iceland and Mark to Myth, too political to fail and even quotes Schumpter.

    Here is a very interesting conclusion.
    “AIG, Fannie, Freddie and the monolines have been among the biggest failures. Since Insurers are essentially risk absorbers, do we need different accounting and capital rules for them than for risk traders? Insofar as insurers sell credit insurance, should we exclude systemic meltdowns, which would be covered by the central government? Since government actions may have led to systemic failure, how can any private firm insure against government negligence?”

  371. plg says:

    Krugman is absolutely correct. There is a difference between debt under Bush and debt under Obama. Obama came under an economic crisis, unlike Bush who oversaw a massive housing and credit boom.

    There is a difference between spending during boom and bust times. Right now, unemployment is our biggest worry. Unemployment is still officially recognized at 9.7%, which is way too high. The Federal Reserve has already done all it can do; the interest rate is at 0%. Still, the jobs situation doesn’t seem like it’ll get any better within the next year or two without any government intervention (quantitative easing, stimulus packages, etc.). This is what we call a liquidity trap. Japan faced the same thing in the 1990s. It’s basic math.

    There’s really nothing unique about our situation, other than that it’s a rare event. But other than that, we should have been able to see the problem stemming from the growing housing bubble. The Federal Reserve missed it and they are most to blame for this. And if there’s one thing you should get out of this, it is this: the housing bubble is the main reason for our current economic instability. Don’t believe those who say that it was the debt or that this was some unseen, once in a century bust that just happened. It’s bullshit. The housing bubble is arguably the SOLE reason for the Great Recession; an $8 trillion asset bubble whose pop was heard around the world. Dean Baker analyzes that, “Homeowners have lost more than $5 trillion in housing wealth. There is a very well established wealth effect whereby $1 of housing wealth is estimated as leading to 5 to 6 cents of annual consumption. This implies that the loss of wealth to date would cause consumption to fall by $250 billion to $300 billion annually (1.7 percent to 2.0 percent of GDP). If you add in the loss of around $6 trillion in stock wealth, with an estimated wealth effect of 3-4 cents on the dollar, then you get an additional decline of $180 billion to $240 billion in annual consumption (1.2 percent to 1.6 percent of GDP).”

    And yet, you’ve probably rarely heard of this as being the true cause of the current recession, despite the fact that many of the top intellectual and influential economists in this country and abroad have been calling it for what it was before it got too big: a bubble! I recall economists like Dean Baker, Paul Krugman, Joseph Stiglitz, and many others talking about this very same shit as early as 2005. Hell, Dean Baker sold his home back in 2004 because he was confident that the price of his house (as all others) was way above true value. But if you read the article, you’ll realize that it didn’t take faith, chance, or luck. “Dean Baker, a macroeconomist and a believer in the scientific method…” There’s a system out there for economics, just like biology, chemistry, mathematics, physics, etc. It’s an actual science. But why did we ignore these people then? And worse yet, why are we still ignoring them now?

    They had the numbers; they had the facts; they had the charts to prove it all. But no, we just went along with those media pundits who don’t know jackshit about microeconomics, let alone macroeconomics. These pundits like George Will and Bill Kristol just make up some “patriot” sounding article that rails against any spending (unless it’s for wars, of course) that is purely opinionated and almost never substantiated by fact. And then they have the audacity to call it economics. I must say that I sometimes don’t blame those who mistake economics for a pseudoscience. And those of us who refuse to open a macroeconomics books are sometimes the loudest who shout, “Isn’t it a paradox to spend more to get out of debt?” Seriously, is that the best you Austrian/libertarians got? Sadly, they’ve taken most of middle America with them, getting them to vote for things against their very interests.

    But now, this new, common Joe approach to economics is the second thing destroying America. What I mean is this self projection that Americans make of their own situation onto the government. The whole idea that if I’m cutting my spending and tightening my budget, so should the government. It sounds like common sense. The fallacy with this, however, is that when consumers and businesses are not spending, the government must become the last resort. We’re essentially restricting our only safety net from a repeat of 1937.

    Speaking of which, I think it’d be wise to use historical precedent to again illustrate that the deficit hawks are blowing everything out of proportion. Roosevelt, when beginning his work in office in 1933, sought to expand spending programs and government aid to help America pull out of the Great Depression. Many conservative politicians at the time feared that this would destroy the country (as if it could go any lower) and finally managed to undermine his efforts in 1937, forcing him to cut spending and raise taxes again. So you know the rest of the story: America falls back into a recession and doesn’t fully recover until World War II comes along and singlehandedly destroyed unemployment.

    Oh, and arithmetically speaking, at 11 percent of GDP, the current deficit is well short of the record deficits during World War II which were more than 20 percent of GDP. It makes no sense to cite trillions of dollars without adjusting it to its relative GDP.

    Once we are able to realize this and then take care of the healthcare atrocity in this country (if you want to be serious about the debt, this is where to look), we can finally take care of that threatening deficit… trade deficit that is.

    Edit: And I don’t mean to downplay the importance of eventually paying back our national debt when we are fully recovered, but I just wanted to illustrate my point that there are a whole bunch of other worries that should concern us more than this. The national debt will naturally be taken care of if we reform healthcare and cut its increasing costs, reform the financial system, and create new jobs. After World War II we had to pay off a huge national debt, but during that time, from 1946 to 1980, the economy was mainly quite prosperous.

    Edit2: A lot of people are mentioning the dangers of inflation. These fears are unsubstantiated. We’re a lot closer to deflation than we ever were to inflation. In fact, we could use a little inflation right about now.

  372. RayC says:

    From the NYT

    In one indication of increasing interest in higher-end properties, searches for listings of New York City homes priced above $2 million and above $5 million on the real estate search engine have grown significantly.


    How far do we have to look for GOOD real estate news? Trulia searches are up! Yeah! Everything is fixed!

  373. Barbara says:


  374. Shore Guy says:

    Regarding Trulia:

    Of courde many of those searches could just as easily be 1) people looking at how the other 2% lives or, 2) people looking to get a belly laugh at the expense of the deluded sellers.

  375. cobbler (385)-

    Nice try at disguising the fact you’re a communist. People who think arbitrary redistribution of wealth is a good thing are just communists talking a line.

    No, I will not “share” my income with dopes like you, or allow it to be “flattened” for the specious benefit of all.

    Your ideas have a lot more in common with Stalin than anything I’ve ever stated here. A lot of his handiwork was allegedly for the benefit of all, too.

  376. And, yes, I’d put you on the list to be executed.

  377. “Social Democrat”… that’s rich. I think a good definition of it would be a person who is so self-loathing, he feels guilt in acting on his own behalf.

    sas could have fun with that one.

  378. PGC (389)-

    I think insurers are best regulated by individual state casino commissions.

  379. plg (390)-

    Should I separate my “Bush debt” and “O debt” on my personal financial statements?

    I guess there might be some difference in the ways in which the debt is accrued, but in the end it is debt, all the same. It must be serviced or written down. Too bad the gubmint chooses to either extend or deny it.

    The rest of what you state is too idiotic to even merit a response.

  380. deadbeat says:

    Come 2/15 we’ll be 3 months past due on one property and 2 mos. on another. So far minimal contact from the respective banks and we’ve got an attorney lined up to forestall the process in the hopes of negotiating. We’ve had both listed in hopes of short sale, but no interest. One of the parties involved is an older gent and reasons that he has no chance of getting his $$ back in his lifetime, so he’s not ponying up his share of the monthly shortfall any longer. We’ve been carrying these properties for a few years now and have been hemorraghing good money after bad. Time to give up the ghost. Will post periodically on the process.

  381. beat (399)-

    Jettison the attorney. Will only cost you money and won’t help you a bit.

    You can short sell both properties if you really want to. The reason they haven’t sold is that they are overpriced. Drop the price, and keep dropping it, until a steady stream of showings begins.

    That would be a good time to update us.

  382. Barbara says:

    voting your self interest is common sense but I think people make the mistake of putting politics on par with religion, spirituality, philosophy, etc so the notion of voting your self interest is distasteful to them.

    Voting your self interest is on par with cleaning up your own backyard and charity begins at home, etc.

  383. plg says:

    The Condition-Code Red,

    I’ll make this simple for you.

    There is good debt and bad debt and absolutely necessary debt. Many people would argue that taking a mortgage on well-priced house you intend to live in for a long time is good debt. In addition, many business take out a loan and invest it in their business. Also good debt.

    Now in the case of our national debt, Bush took out debt to finance two foreign wars, a prescription drug benefit and to cut taxes. Obama took out debt to build infrastructure, provide unemployment insurance, keep police at work…oh yeah and AVOID A GREAT DEPSRESSION.

    So, you see, not all debt is equal. Yes, it all has to be paid back, but some debt actually prevents a worse outcome than otherwise would occur. Obama’s debt did that. Bush’s debt has gotten us virtually nothing in return.

  384. deadbeat says:


    I understand what you mean. We’re just intending to leverage his letterhead fwiw. Haven’t paid a dime yet. No sense paying him if it’s a fait accompli.

    We started below comps and will drop aggressively. Input is appreciated.

  385. cobbler says:

    code red [394]
    I’d rather not share my income with dopes like you, too… – which I would unfortunately have to if I ever need to sell my home. If you’d say that “redistributing” 6% to the broker – whether the house sells for 200K (as in 1992) or 600K (as in 2005, and actually with less legwork) is anything but arbitrary, there are some well priced bridges I’ve got for sale. Besides gratuitous attacks, and having been to Europe (I guess), what specifically did you dislike about Netherlands’ way of life – except Middle-Eastern immigrants?
    With your ideas, good luck bringing this country back to 1776…

  386. cobbler says:

    Financial self-interest is probably 20 or 30% of what the people vote for or against. My direct self-interest is to not pay for your gran’s hospital stay – she’s going to die in a few years, anyway; your self-interest is not to pay for my grandmother. Despite that, we as taxpayers pay for both old ladies’ care instead of throwing them into the lake. We also pay for the old ladies that don’t even have grandchildren to pay taxes – instead of, say, eating them (like some cultures had been doing as recently as 150 years ago)…

  387. jamil says:

    plg: “Krugman is absolutely correct. There is a difference between debt under Bush and debt under Obama. Obama came under an economic crisis, unlike Bush who oversaw a massive housing and credit boom.”

    I hope this is sarcasm, not just result of stupidity. Bush inherited recession from Clinton (job losses started in late 2000), stock market bubble and faces 9/11 and its financial (and non-financial effects on nation) so spending would be (using your logic) be fine.
    Anyway, Bush did not waste the tax-payer money, instead he let tax-payers to spend (save or waste) their own money. I also blame Bush for not cutting entitlements (he tried Social Security but Dems filibustered), but given that O spent 3 times the money Bush spent and then blaming Bush for spending just shows the intellectual level of liberals.

  388. jamil says:

    as for the difference between communists and social democrats: At least Tom Friedman and New York Times proudly supported China’s brutal control on their country. It was so funny to read Friedman fantasizing China-like methods in the US to combat climate-change. Yeah, since the climate science has settled, we should just execute the deniers and be done with it.

  389. cobbler says:

    Code Red:
    Brainwash in action (from Gallup):

    Exactly how Americans define “socialism” or what exactly they think of when they hear the word is not known. The research simply measures Americans’ reactions when a survey interviewer reads the word to them — an exercise that helps shed light on connotations associated with this frequently used term.

    There are significant differences in reactions to “socialism” across ideological and partisan groups:

    A majority of 53% of Democrats have a positive image of socialism, compared to 17% of Republicans.
    Sixty-one percent of liberals say their image of socialism is positive, compared to 39% of moderates and 20% of conservatives.

  390. I think we’ve found the perfect battle: jamil vs plg. Two true believers, punching at the same weight.

    Gentlemen, I cede to you.

  391. Just to be clear, I hate knee-jerk neocons too.

  392. Veto That says:

    “Are any of the highlighted miscreants actually from the shore”

    Shore, only one guy, the situation, is from the shore area but i think its more like manalapan or some place a little more north of that.
    One guye from Rhode Island, a girl from poughkeepsie. One from Bronx, 2 from staten island, one from long island. Maybe 3 are from from jersey. something like that.
    For a few of them it was their first time at the jersey shore.

  393. Veto That says:

    “So we’ll probably not break even after taking into consideration all costs.”

    West im shocked by that. I would think the price was up about 80% from 2000-2004.
    i guess home maint projects add up quickly.

  394. Barbara says:

    you say this like we get to vote on each bit of taxation. We vote for general agendas and the public mood sets those agendas.
    My point stands. Blue collar working poor who vote GOP because they get all weak in the knees every time Jesus and country is mentioned, are NOT voting their self interest. They are voting on a philosophical stance. It has its place but when its the only thing that comesw ith you to the voting both, the balance is thrown and the voter becomes easily manipulated.

  395. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [408] cobbler,

    Time to paraphrase Norman Thomas again:

    Democrats and republicans both accept socialism; the differnce is that the democrats accept it willingly and the republicans accept it grudgingly.

  396. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    What happened to the Snowpocalypse?

    This storm was a joke, at least up here. I could have swept my driveway.

    Though I am told well south of here got dumped on.

    More importantly, Park City has been getting snow.

  397. jamil says:

    415: that’s proof of global warming.

  398. prtraders2000 says:

    We’ve got about 20 inches with 4 foot drifts. It actually just stopped about an hour and a half ago. I’m down in Brick. Funny thing was during yesterday’s commute home I saw more than few pickups with plows heading south with Conn. and Mass. plates.

  399. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [416] jamil

    Actually, yeah, it could be proof of global warming, since heavier snowfalls are produced by warmer, wetter, low pressure systems. When you get artic cold high pressure, the air is quite dry.

  400. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [417] prtraders

    “Funny thing was during yesterday’s commute home I saw more than few pickups with plows heading south with Conn. and Mass. plates.”

    Yeah that is funny. Not cost effective to troll SOJersey for work when you are in N.E. so I question what was up with that.

  401. Barbara says:

    south jersey got 2 ft

  402. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Early flight tomorrow, which is good since there won’t be any major excuses for Newark to post delays, like solar flares or a triple witching hour.

  403. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    And here is a little something for plg and PGC to peruse as I think the points I have heard from them resonate more with this crowd:

    Peace out, see you all next week (hopefully).

  404. Firestormik says:

    plg, re: bad debt,
    I’ll take a picture on Monday of $8 mil parking lot built at Edison train station and you’ll see yourself that’s wasted money spent by O.

  405. PGC says:

    #422 Nom

    I suspect I would be further to the right of the DSA than you would be left of the Tea Party.

    Jamil, I though you were in Texas for the Convention?

  406. PGC says:

    Its a shame really. I though the Tea Party would make it through the primaries before they started throwing each other under the bus.

  407. Mikeinwaiting "Bicep" says:

    A very political Saturday, must be the snow or lack there of. Lighten up Francis.

  408. meter says:

    As stated above, I’m all set to vote all incumbents out, but Republicans or Tea Baggers or whatever the fcuk you people call yourselves have to do better than Sarah f’n Palin or else I’m voting Green Party.

    Or a write-in for Mickey Mouse, who is more than likely the most qualified candidate of the bunch.

  409. meter says:

    Should be interesting watching the wingnut Christian pro-lifers try to hijack the Tea Baggers, too.

    How about this motley crew: Pie-in-the-sky Libertarians/Rand worshippers vs. Jesus freaks vs. angry old white dudes with high school educations who think ACORN is out to get them (looking at you, Jamil)…this needs to be on Pay Per View. Like yesterday.

    (Over/under on Tea Baggers successfully co-opting the system to the level of Ds and Rs? 7.5 years? 3.5?)

  410. 3b says:

    #412 I thought he originally said he just closed on a purchase?

  411. OTOH, maybe I’ll just stick to anarchy.

  412. using another handle says:

    ahhh, clueless and uninformed jamil chiming in on clinton and bush.

    can’t wait to see his reaction to a story like this. expect buffoonery like ‘state-run’ media and doctored numbers.

  413. using another handle says:

    The Condition-Code Red says:
    February 6, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    I think we’ve found the perfect battle: jamil vs plg. Two true believers, punching at the same weight.

    winner gets winner of Frank vs. Bi in the “championship”

  414. meter says:

    Anarchy is sounding better and better, I have to admit. At least it will make more sense.

    I love the taste of lawlessness in the morning.

  415. meter says:

    taste = smell

    Screwed the pooch on that Apocalypse Now quote.

  416. handle (432)-

    Talk about a race to the bottom…

  417. Anarchy is not necessarily lawlessness. Ideally, it is the lack of a need for laws.

  418. My kind of anarchy is like Karl Hess or Murray Rothbard’s.

    Two cool dudes.

  419. “Society has a very serious problem of playing pretend. Pretend deficits don’t matter, pretend the challenged can keep up, pretend the smart aren’t dumbed down, pretend rewarding failure creates success, pretend globalism works, pretend banks are solvent, pretend jobs don’t matter, pretend unemployment is under 10%, pretend the market is sound, pretend Capital Hill listens to their constituents, pretend campaign donations aren’t bribes, pretend the US hasn’t gone corporatist, pretend the economy has recovered…pretend, pretend, pretend.”

  420. SG says:

    NY Times,

    This Crisis Won’t Stop Moving

    YOU know we’re in trouble when we’re told that the economic problems in Greece, Portugal and Spain, the most indebted countries in the euro zone, are likely to remain safely contained in those nations.

    After all, we heard the same nonsense in 2007 from United States financial leaders talking about the subprime mortgage mess. Both Ben S. Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, and Henry M. Paulson Jr., then the Treasury secretary, rolled out to reassure concerned investors that troubles in mortgage land wouldn’t permeate the rest of the economy.

    As for housing prices, Mr. Rosenberg expects further declines of 10 to 15 percent over the next few years. He pointed to the roughly nine million residential housing units available for sale across the country, a very high vacancy rate when judged against a total housing stock of 130 million units.

    If his forecast is accurate, the numbers of borrowers who owe more than their homes are worth will rise significantly. Mr. Rosenberg estimates that fully half of the mortgage-holding population in the country could be underwater by 2011.

    “We are in a post-bubble credit collapse and there are going to be periods of calm and stormy weather. Investors will have to navigate through the volatility,” Mr. Rosenberg said. “Unfortunately, I think we are still in the early stages. The next recession will happen more quickly than people think.”

  421. SG says:

    Housing recovery could take a decade, economists warn

    Even as the housing market shows signs of improvement, including in new data released Tuesday, economists warn that it could take up to a decade for many homeowners to regain equity in their homes, while some people in the hardest-hit regions of the country may not see a recovery during their lifetime.

    “In California, Florida, in the ground-zero zones, it could take 15 years to fully recover,” said Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors.

    Speculative buying pushed development farther from urban centers during the housing bubble, Lawler said. In some cases, local markets faltered before amenities such as grocery stores could be completed, and now there is no reason to finish those projects, he said. “There are going to be parts of Florida where homes shouldn’t have been built [and] . . . that should have stayed farm land,” he said.

    To achieve a healthy recovery, the housing market would need to avoid the quick run-up in prices experienced during the housing boom, economists said. If home prices rise significantly faster than inflation, it could lead to another housing bubble, they said.

    During a normal market, home prices rise 3 to 5 percent a year, Yun said. But during the housing boom, the appreciation rate was twice that in many areas. In the Washington region, home prices rose by 10 percent or more a year between 2001 and 2005, he said. “In the Washington market, which was one of the more bullish markets, it’s going to take many years for people who bought at the peak to see those” prices again, Yun said.

  422. relo says:

    Makes the math on the 20 year term of the deficiency judgement more palatable.

    “In California, Florida, in the ground-zero zones, it could take 15 years to fully recover,” said Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors.

  423. Dr Jekyl (Mr Hyde) says:

    Code Red 438


    If only it were that simple.

    I know numerous people who should “know better” and have the credentials behind them to back that up. But from PhD’s to blue collar tradesman, the problem is the same.
    if any of these people acknowledge the facts of the matter at hand, then their world as they know it, ceases to exist.

    And for those who even think of dipping their toes into the matter, there is the “shock” of first exposure similar to what happens when you jump into cold water.
    The moment your body hits the water every nerve in your body screams at you to get out.

    Look at some of the comments on this blog the last few days about people being overwhelmed with the insanity of the situation. And this is from people who have been debating and researching this material for years!!!!

    If some of the regular posters on this blog are overwhelmed with the disparity between the “real world” and reality then what can we expect from the average joe, whether that joe is a PhD or a brick layer?

    The following video clip is prophetic:

    The average joe is at this point the economic enemy, in that they are not willing to vote for a cut in the bread and circus government programs that they have become accustomed to.

    They would rather take out the NINJA loan and bid up crapshack mcmansions to astronomic prices. They would (and do) decry and lambaste any politician or groups that seriously threatens to reduce government spending and waste. While at the same time the “woman in the red dress” is all around us, in everything from Facebook to 24hr soap operas, to political theater

    I cant tell you how many times I have heard “It cant really be like that” or “We will find some way to fix it, we are the US after all”

    Yet the average joe is the one who must fix this in the end. They must give up their fantasy world and address the issues at hand. This is only going to happen when facing those issues is LESS painful then the status quo.

    At this point the status quo is significantly more pleasant for the average joe than demanding that the government and society behave responsibly and endure the pain associated with that choice.

    The population of Joe’s is large enough where they have actually forced their pretend world to be the real world. The end consequences of that are unpleasant for everyone

    And no we cannot just blame this on our government, as corrupt and inept as they may be. In the end the government truly is a reflection of its people.

    There is no need to fret. We are all going to wake up in the “real” world just as the icy cold waves lap at our feet and the band stops playing. The question that remains is will the American citizen have the fortitude and determination to rise back up and rebuild their society and nation.

  424. SG says:

    Bank Heist: It’s Mortgages, Not Money

    –Mortgage delinquencies are now rising at the rate of 300,000 a month. The number of delinquencies, which stood at 6.2 million at the end of December, should rise, she figures, to 10-12 million by year-end.

    –In December alone, 350,000 properties received some form of foreclosure and they continue at a brisk rate this year because of resets on option ARM mortgages and job losses. So far in early 2010, foreclosures are running at a rate of 75,000 to 80,000 monthly.

    –Defaults on prime rate mortgages, as well as jumbo mortgages (generally around $470,000) are also on the rise because of high unemployment.

    –About 25% of the nation’s homes are under water (meaning the mortgages are greater than the worth of the house). On average, homeowners owe 25% to 40% more than the value of their house.

    –Home prices, which peaked in early 2006 and are down about 30% since then, are likely to drop another 10% due to excess inventory and continued foreclosures.

    The bottom line is obvious: A man’s home is no longer his castle.

  425. sas says:

    Toyota… dead & gone…


  426. sas says:

    yum… I sure do love pecan biscotti.

    (with a chester cat grin)

  427. sas says:

    “EU committee recommends refusing U.S. access to bank information”

  428. njescapee says:

    no glooom and doom tonight for me. actually had some decent italian food at a local restaurant or maybe it was the 2 btls of pinot noir. seafood salad was nearly as good as i remember having at vinnies clam bar in raritan. is that place still there?

  429. relo says:


    Is Seven Fishes still around?

  430. PGC says:

    “Toyota… dead & gone…”

    Ummm NO

    This is not exploding Pintos or roll over Suv’s. They will take their licks on the recall. There will be a short sharp marketing blitz, “We did the right thing” and they are back to normal. The irony is that the compitition willnot risk ramping up inventory to try and take sales away.

    I drive a Prius and the OEM tires are more of a worry than the regenerative braking issue.

  431. cobbler says:

    kettle [443]
    As long as suggesting (or even hinting at) main entitlement programs reductions and/or meaningful tax increases is an instant job-killer for an elected representative, the problems will continue getting worse. As I said many times here, getting rid of WTO and setting up meaningful duties will allow both getting the balanced budget and restored U.S. productive economy – but the cost will be having to labor 2x or 3x as long for this flatscreen TV or a pair of shoes. Arguably, shoes are likely to be of a better quality (not the TV, though…).

  432. cobbler says:

    nom [414]
    The point of Gallup’s article I tried to emphasize was that the majority doesn’t have an idea what socialism actually is (besides something scary to be afraid of, and to avoid being accused of at all costs).

  433. confused in NJ says:

    Snowmeggedon II is forecast for Wednesday. Where does one put the new snow, as cold weather is keeping Snowmeggedon Part I around? Maybe we could have it trucked to DC, “O” likes snow.

  434. Shore Guy says:

    “. One from Bronx, 2 from staten island, one from long island.”

    Ahh, figures. We put up with these cats for forever and a day. As for Manalapan, that is hardly the Shore. Nothing west of Rt 34 is the Shore. Heck, west of RT 71 is pushing it.

  435. safeashouses says:

    #454 Shore guy,

    I grew up at the shore. My friends and I used to love to speed down the original Ocean Ave in Long Branch after a summer storm and create a nice wave that soaked the “Jersey Shore” types leaning against the trunks of their cars where the pier used to be in LB. Hard to look cool in the club when your clothes are drenched,, your hair gel has washed away, and your make up is gone. And those were the guys….. I’m here all week folks.

  436. Veto That says:

    “3b says:
    #412 I thought he originally said he just closed on a purchase?”

    3b, yep he is talking about the home he lives in now.

  437. Veto That says:

    “My friends and I used to love to speed down the original Ocean Ave in Long Branch after a summer storm and create a nice wave that soaked the “Jersey Shore” types.”

    Safe, you and i could have hung out growing up. I grew up in TR and did this same thing to the valedictorian of our hs. Was not fun to get called into the principal’s office the next morning and have her sitting there pointing right at me, ‘yep thats him.’
    It was my word against hers. She was in marching band so i knew i had no chance.
    Of course my only defense was to burst out in guilty uncontrollable laughter when i was reminded of how thick the wave was. it actually made her disapear for 2 full seconds and then with a blink of an eye she was transformed into a wet rat. but those were the good old days. if we did that today we could be arrested, although it still might be just as funny.

  438. Veto That says:

    SAS, toyota isnt going anywhere. their business model is superior in many ways.

    This is all just a charade, Government Motors trying to regain market share without having to implement formal trade barriers.

    stupid gas pedal problem is a joke. i already forgot about it and will not even think about it next time im shopping for a car.

    Unfortunately for us, over the long run we will have to actually compete with hard work and brain power, not just one time gimicks and media libel.

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