NY metro home prices fell 6.3% in December

From the Star Ledger:

Home prices still fall in the N.Y. region

Housing prices in the New York metropolitan area dropped for the fourth consecutive month in December, according to data released today.

Nationwide, prices in the 20 cities that are tracked by Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller housing index dropped 3.1 percent in December from the previous year.

“The housing market is definitely in better shape than it was this time last year,” said David M. Blitzer, chairman of the Index Committee at Standard & Poor’s, in a statement.

In the New York-area, which includes 14 New Jersey counties, the index dropped 6.3 percent from the same period last year.

From the WSJ:

Case-Shiller Adds to Confusion on Housing Market

Tuesday’s latest home-price reading shows that momentum slowed at the end of 2009 for the housing market, adding to the confusion about where prices are headed from here.

The S&P/Case-Shiller 20-city composite index in December fell 0.2% from November, but after adjusting for seasonal factors, home prices were up 0.3%. That was the same change that the index showed in November.

Fifteen of 20 markets tracked by the index showed monthly declines, though the battered Southwest fared well. Las Vegas had its first monthly gain in more than three years (and today’s story helps to explain why conditions there have improved), while Los Angeles led the nation with a 1% monthly increase.

Robert Shiller, the Yale University economist who co-founded the index that bears his name, called the home-price rebound during the second half of the year “the most dramatic turnaround” since he began charting home prices in 1987. Home prices fell by 11% for six months ending in April 2009, before rising by around 5% over the following six months. The last time home prices swung so sharply was in April 1991, when a more modest 5% decline over six months was followed by a 2% rally.

What followed? “Nothing,” says Mr. Shiller. “The home market was absolutely dead for the better part of a decade after that.” But he says today’s volatility in prices and the massive amount of federal stimulus has made the home-price outlook far more uncertain. “The market has shown a lot of momentum,” he said. “What trend are we seeing now? It’s very ambiguous.”

“What worries me right now is the default rate on mortgages,” says Mr. Shiller. “It might go up because of a change in our sense of responsibility to pay mortgages. People are angry and upset.”

This entry was posted in Economics, National Real Estate, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

461 Responses to NY metro home prices fell 6.3% in December

  1. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    High-Scoring Borrowers Pay Cards Ahead of Mortgages

    Consumers with high credit scores are more likely to default on mortgages than credit-card loans, said FICO, maker of the scoring formula most widely used by U.S. lenders.

    In 2009, consumers with FICO scores from 760 to 789 defaulted on real estate loans at a rate 200 percent greater than credit-card loans, or 0.3 percent of consumers compared with 0.1 percent, the Minneapolis-based company said in a statement today. FICO considers borrowers who are more than 90 days delinquent to be in serious delinquency or default.

    “This used to be a problem for subprime,” said Mark Greene, chief executive officer of FICO, in an interview Feb. 19 on Bloomberg Television in New York. “Now we’re starting to see at the high end of the marketplace, people with good FICO scores, having serious delinquency problems.”

  2. Essex says:

    Oh Noooes!

  3. Essex says:

    A low FICO score is the new black.

  4. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Short Sale Rules May Help Sellers

    Homeowners struggling to sell their homes in a short sale are getting some relief, thanks to the federal government’s Home Affordable Foreclosure Alternatives, or HAFA, program.

    Up to now, many short sales — in which the lender accepts a sale of the property for less than the full amount owed — have taken months to complete. Sometimes, the complex and lengthy process has failed, resulting in foreclosure.

    HAFA establishes streamlined short sale rules and incentivizes borrowers and lenders to work together to avoid foreclosure. The rules — in effect between April 5, 2010, and Dec. 31, 2012 — also are intended to speed up the short sale process.

    “The streamlined short sales process will definitely help homeowners,” says David Liniger, Re/Max International chairman and co-founder.

    Prior to HAFA, homeowners often listed their home for sale without an idea of what the lender would accept.

    “A lot of sellers and their Realtors have not been able to sort out the problems with short sales and have given up on the process because, even after sending in the correct paperwork, they have sometimes waited three or four months for their lender to respond,” Liniger says.

    Under HAFA, borrowers receive preapproved short sale terms from the lender prior to putting the home on the market.

  5. freedy says:

    home prices on the upswing? i’m confused
    i thought homes were still going down in price

  6. Shore Guy says:

    “Housing prices in the New York metropolitan area dropped for the fourth consecutive month in December”

    Of course they did, just not the counties close to Manhattan. THOSE are different, after all.

    And for those counties that did fall, it as not the RIGHT towns that fell. And for those RIGHT towns that did fall, it as not the RIGHT streets in the RIGHT towns that fell.

    Understand? Things are different HERE.

  7. Shore Guy says:

    Why does the fact that consumers are paying credit card bills before mortgages surprise anyone? We have become a culture where people use plastic for everything, down to a packet of gum. To lose that ability and to have to revert to coins and paper money, egads!, no way.

  8. freedy says:

    does this mean the Bergen County has the all clear? Buy , cause you can’t lose in BC.
    After all , NYC right over the bridge

  9. Final Doom says:

    freedy (5)-

    No big whoop when prices uptick 1% in a place like Vegas or Phoenix, where everything has dropped 70% from peak.

    Also, prices rise in areas where inventory is dominated by REO. The banksters entertain cash-only offers, and the investors come out of the woodwork.

    Too bad all of them are going to get lopped off at the knees when the market tanks yet again.

    Which should begin within the next 90 days.

  10. Final Doom says:

    freedy (8)-

    As I mentioned last night, many buyers are now intentionally bypassing Bergen and beginning their searches further west in NJ.

    Bergen is toast. Those living there just don’t know it yet.

    A POS cape on .10 acre with a $15,000 tax bill is an unsellable proposition…unless the owner is going to use it as a grow house.

  11. freedy says:

    how does this work? citi corp reserves the
    right 7 day advance warning to withdrawn from
    your checking account. Crazy

  12. grim says:

    So what, go elsewhere.

    Customers should vote with their feet.

  13. njescapee says:

    Front page news from the fl keys:

    Hotel ‘bomb’ is really a ‘sexual stimulating device’


  14. #7 Why does the fact that consumers are paying credit card bills before mortgages surprise anyone?

    It shouldn’t. The only people surprised by this have to have had their heads buried in sand for the past 20 years.
    We’ve become so dependent upon debt that credit cards are viewed as an extension of one’s wages. Of course they’re going to keep paying the cc’s, they can’t survive without them because most aren’t earning enough.

  15. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    I moved my money from Chase to Schwab. Chase responded by knocking 20K off of my Chase credit card limit. I’m hurt. Now I can’t buy a new car with my credit card.

  16. jamil says:

    PGC 282 (prev thread):

    “Interesting story on NPR this evening..
    “Basically the reason that people react in a close-minded way to information is that the implications of it threaten their values,”
    from the Saul Alinsky article:
    Over the past few months, polls show that fewer Americans say they believe humans are making the planet dangerously warmer, despite a raft of scientific reports that say otherwise.

    This puzzles many climate scientists — but not some social scientists, whose research suggests that facts may not be as important as one’s beliefs. ”

    PGC, this was a joke, right?
    And which side exactly was the closed-minded?
    Well, truth and freedom are my values and surely Global Warming scam threatened it.

  17. Cindy says:


    “Bank Lending Falls Fast” – Bank-O-Meter

    Continued losses?

    “Where did the money go? Will we ever see the money again? Don’t hold your breath.

  18. Sg says:

    In vegas right now. Most casinos are pretty much empty here. In cesars yesterday, I would say only 20 percent tables had 1 or few people. I got room at flamingo for 45 bucks.

    it seems things are slightly better compared to year ago, but nothing compared to 2006 years.

  19. Final Doom says:

    escape (13)-

    Sounds like they’ve found bi and his black box.

  20. Cindy says:



    “Commercial Mortgage Default Rate in U.S. More Than Doubles”

  21. Final Doom says:

    I think we also have a new (and disturbing) insight into bi’s “inputs” to that black box. I’ll never think of Monte Carlo the same way again.

    As they say: garbage in, garbage out.

    Or, is it just the old in-and-out?

  22. Final Doom says:

    Cindy (20)-

    Time to load up on IYR, SPG, etc. The REITs will probably have a giant day today.

  23. Final Doom says:

    False recovery is just around the corner!

  24. Final Doom says:

    CRE is the next TBTF welfare recipient.

  25. Final Doom says:

    HE (15)-

    Send Jamie Dimon a pipe bomb.

  26. EWellie says:


    You just proved his point.

  27. crossroads says:

    “It might go up because of a change in our sense of responsibility to pay mortgages. People are angry and upset.”

    this puzzles me. people are angry and upset because the bank didn’t tell them no you can’t borrow 10x your income? shouldn’t they be upset because they lacked the common sense and basic math skills to say no to themselves???

  28. Cindy says:

    Clot – Grim’s post @ 4 was about that HAFA program I asked you about a few days ago. Let’s get those things sold.

  29. Final Doom says:

    David Rosenberg is a sharp cookie. IMO, he has outdone even Roubini (who now spends his time in a nihilistic pursuit of supermodels). His latest missive confirms what I’ve been yelling here for over a year: FHA is a 10-megaton payload of utter and final destruction, which is trip-wired to blow at any minute. When (not if) this puppy goes, final doom is upon us. BTW- as many of the comments on the below-referenced thread state- HUD is a giant slush fund that operates under the public pretense of helping people, while acting as a backdoor mechanism to @ssr@pe the Amerikan public. Don’t expect HUD to help when it hits the fan; chances are, they’ll be going down in flames, too.

    Anyone here who thinks I’m crazy…better think again. Rosenberg is as sober and serious a financial geek as they come.

    “David Rosenberg at Gluskin Scheff commented today about possible problems at FHA:


    We have a contact in the mortgage business who took a good hard look at the delinquency data from the FHA, along with loss severities. There is a very good
    chance that in the near future we will see the FHA insurance fund go negative.

    You don’t have to have ‘a friend in town’ to get this insight. You just have to go to the HUD website for their REO sales. The number of HUD homes for sale is staggering. There are 50 pages of listings in just Ohio alone. HUD’s chief, Shuan Donovan was in Cincinnati recently. He wrote a blog about his trip:

    “Yesterday, I had the opportunity to travel to Cincinnati, Ohio for the one year anniversary of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009”…”What I saw in Cincinnati yesterday is just one example of the economic recovery America is beginning to experience.”

    By my count the FHA is listing 500 homes for sale in Ohio. You have to wonder what Mr. Donovan is selling here. This American recovery he is talking about is being tripped up by the FHA’s REO sales.”


  30. Final Doom says:

    Cindy (29)-

    There is no reasonable expectation that HAFA will work any better than any of the other programs that preceded it. It was cooked up by the same people…only now, market conditions are even worse.

    I’ve read the UST guideline for HAFA from front to back, and there are enough loopholes and triggers for unintended consequences to completely destroy the housing market.

  31. Final Doom says:

    Let’s put it this way: if your institution holds a lot of junior residential liens, you might want to tell your people to get their resumes out on the street.

  32. Cindy says:

    31 – Clot –

    I keep trying to find a glimmer of hope…the you go and spit in my eye….Man. Thanks a lot.

  33. Final Doom says:

    The gubmint has been furiously propping up housing values for years. Between the FDIC’s backdoor REO dump and the new HAFA program, we could go from stasis to a freefall in prices within 90 days.

    My take is that the long-predicted “rush for the exits” is about to be on…and the gubmint and their cronies are positioning themselves to be out the doors before they are barred shut forever.

  34. Final Doom says:

    Cindy (33)-

    I do this every day. There is no reason to hope, because the entire system has broken down. It is a sham of a Ponzi.

    The thing to do now is prepare for what comes next.

  35. Final Doom says:

    A couple of sales I made last year were to FHA borrowers. Just found out both of them are already delinquent. One didn’t even make it six months before puking it up.

    Both parties qualified easily at the time for FHA loans, and both had 700+ FICO.

  36. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot 36 Job lose or just stupid.

  37. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot looking at an REO this week 3bd ranch. Do I get to have inspected before offer as it reads as is all Bla Bla Bla responsibility of buyer.

  38. Mr Hyde says:



    look into who the biggest players are. Surprisingly some of them are defense contractors.

    HUD is at least partially a slush fund for black ops and the military industrial complex

  39. 3b says:

    # 10 A POS cape on .10 acre with a $15,000 tax bill is an unsellable proposition…

    You just described my town.

  40. Mikeinwaiting says:

    3b so is a 3800 sq ft monster with 16k taxes in my town, try 7k a year to heat.

  41. Cindy says:

    35 Clotpoll

    “…prepare for what comes next…”

    Work. What I do is work. I will simply be doing it longer than I thought.

  42. crossroads says:

    the psychology of main stream doesn’t seem to have changed much. A coworker yesterday was bragging how he was going to start buying foreclosures and double and triple his money in a year or two….

  43. 3b says:

    #36 One didn’t even make it six months before puking it up.

    How could that possibly happen?

  44. Final Doom says:

    mike (37)-

    Both, actually.

  45. 3b says:

    #43 So he thinks it is still 2005 too??

  46. Final Doom says:

    mike (38)-

    No. Just make sure you give yourself an inspection contingency, then do the inspections at the end of atty review.

  47. Final Doom says:

    hyde (39)-

    Biggest HUD player is organized crime. On the front end and the back end.

  48. Final Doom says:

    Funny how many intersections there are in the US of:

    1. gubmint
    2. organized crime
    3. housing
    4. laundered money
    5. military black ops

  49. Cindy says:


    Nearly 25% of all Mortgages are Underwater” CNN

    “Nevada was the state with the worst record at 70% of all mortgaged properties underwater. That was followed by Arizona (51%), Florida (48%), Michigan (39%) and California (35%).”

  50. Final Doom says:

    x-roads (43)-

    Encourage him to do so. The system needs a steady supply of fresh victims in order to keep functioning.

  51. crossroads says:


    yes. well he said ” its only gonna go up from here”. there is no thought or understanding to why prices went up and are now going down just repeating the real estate industry montra of now’s the time to buy. which he also said…

  52. crossroads says:


    spoken like a true realtor

  53. Veto That says:

    1 – Grim, that is amazing.

    When the banks catch on to this distrubing trend, it will translate into higher mortgage rates for those with higher FICOs.

    Wow. Talk about unintended conequences.

  54. Final Doom says:

    x-roads (53)-

    I’m not a Realtor. I’m an undertaker.

  55. Final Doom says:

    …or, one of those DOT guys who scrapes up roadkill.

  56. Final Doom says:

    It could turn out that a guy with a 510 FICO who has defaulted on all his cc debt and cannot get any more unsecured lines offered to him will become a candidate to get the best mortgage terms possible.

    All out war between holders of secured and unsecured debt!

  57. Veto That says:

    By the way, in another bow down to John, and his infinite wisdom. He called this 6 months ago. Again, i thought he was making it up, because it sounded totally implausible. But then this morning i see this…

    Wyden-Gregg Bill Would End Tax-Exempts

    New tax reform legislation unveiled Tuesday by Sens. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., and Judd Gregg, R-N.H., would eliminate tax-exempt bonds beginning in 2011, change the tax exemption for state and local bonds to a tax credit, and prohibit the advance refunding of bonds.

    Wyden sponsored the original legislation creating the first direct-pay bonds — Build America Bonds — that was eventually added to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. However, the Wyden-Gregg bill is silent on BABs, leading some market participants to question the future of the program, which is slated to expire at the end of the year.

  58. 3b says:

    Great news folks the proverbial POS Cape has fallen in price form 500k to 400K!!! And the taxes are only slightly over $10,000!! gary, run,run!!


  59. Final Doom says:

    If anyone is interested, I have an agent who is proving that you can live on a diet of nothing but ramen, peanut butter, graham crackers and tic-tacs.

  60. Veto That says:

    57 – the banks will be lining up to lend to freedy while the rest of us cant get loans with 790 ficos and 55% down payments.

  61. Final Doom says:

    3b (59)-

    That wood-paneled den looks like it’d make a great dungeon.

  62. Mikeinwaiting says:

    X-roads Have 3 attempted flips (bought REO’S) in my town just sitting, they will lose their shirts. One is already 70k under water.

  63. Final Doom says:

    veto (61)-

    Hasn’t freedy already said he’s got a deal cooking with Citi?

  64. Final Doom says:

    Deal with Citi = Dancing With the Stars

  65. 3b says:

    #62 How about that kitchen? Charm abounds!!!

  66. john says:

    Bond of the DAY!!!!! I love a good 744% annual yield!

    UNP 6.5000 04/15/12 NT 6.50% 04/15/2012 DTD 04/18/2002
    $0.501 as of 9:11 AM, 24 February 2010
    Yield to Maturity (%):

  67. Final Doom says:

    In ten years, you’ll be able to say the word “Citi”, and it will be its own, one-word, self-contained joke and punchline.

    Kinda like Edsel, Mannyhanny and Chemical.

  68. 3b says:

    #58 The industry and the states will fight that tooth and nail.

  69. Final Doom says:

    3b (69)-

    Nah. In another year or so, every state in the US will be a giant, insolvent welfare queen. Can’t fight when you’ve got no ammo.

  70. Final Doom says:

    Then again, state gubmints may be supplanted by financial services companies.

    New Jersey, Sponsored By Waste Management. Has a nice ring to it.

  71. Final Doom says:

    Anybody ever read that Tom Wolfe story about the UK being annexed by the US and turned into a theme park?

  72. Veto That says:

    Clot, from the zero hedge articl…

    “There is big money to be made offloading government owned REO. There is a built in incentive to push broad RE prices lower. A questionable national policy.”

    i want to see that. Also, when i go to those hud websites, there are not many foreclosure sales for NJ. I only see ten or 15 towns listed for the whole state. I guess the foreclosure crisis is totally bypassing us. Thats weird because i know of at least 3 foreclosures in my town and they are not listed for sale anywhere.

  73. chicagofinance says:

    30.Final Doom says:
    February 24, 2010 at 8:18 am
    David Rosenberg is a sharp cookie.

    Rosenberg is a draft dodging hoser that would rather drink U.S. watered down Molson’s…..

  74. 3b says:

    #72 I thought it already was.

  75. Veto That says:

    “#58 The industry and the states will fight that tooth and nail.”

    3b – yes. they are all over it already.
    The problem is the tax subsidy program (BABs) is working so well that the ‘industry’ doesnt even really want te financing anymore.

  76. chicagofinance says:

    clot: what is your post % on this thread….60%? 70%? slow down…your head will explode…

  77. relo says:

    Do you know what they call a Quarter Pounder w/ cheese in France?


  78. A.West says:

    but only $399k if you don’t mind “as is” with a shower “not working” in that POS cape. Looks like a weak comp if you have to immediately spend tens of thousands to inhabit.

  79. SG says:

    The Economy Looks Like “L”

    Gallup began with the news that in January nearly 20 percent of the U.S. workforce “lacked adequate employment”, which was worse than the numbers reported by the Labor Department. According to Reuters, these “findings appear to paint a darker employment picture than official U.S. data,” with about 30 million Americans “underemployed.” And Gallup misses the mark by at least 2 percent, according to John Williams of ShadowStats.com.

    On top of those numbers, consumer confidence fell sharply in January from an anticipated 55 to a disappointing but probably realistic 46. A reading of 90 or better indicates a healthy economy.

    The problem with option ARMs begins with the fact that people who took out these loans were given the chance to make ultra-low payments for the first few years — and many of them did exactly that. Borrowers, mostly middle- and upper-class with good credit scores, were allowed to make payments that didn’t even cover the interest owed (let alone the principal), with the understanding that payments would spike later on to make up for the shortfall. That allowed people to buy bigger, more expensive houses than they would have been able to qualify for otherwise. Plenty of families banked on rising incomes and an ability to sell their house as ways to deal with such loans in the long term — plans that the housing crash and recession in many cases foiled.

    Time examined one Option ARM loan, a 40-year loan written in 2007 in the amount of $465,000. The initial monthly payment was $1,260, but jumped [due to a cap on the amount of negative amortization that was allowed] to $1,354. It reset two years later with the monthly payment more than doubling to $2,806. No wonder the homeowner walked! According to Diane Westerback, the managing director for Standard and Poor’s, “Some of the damage has already been done, but the loss projections [into the future] are increasing.”

  80. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:

    I’m getting lost …

    How is organized crime a big player in HUD …front end and back?

  81. SG says:

    A Deluge of Homeowners Underwater

    In all, more than 11.3 million, or 24 percent, of all residential properties with mortgages, were underwater at the end of the fourth quarter of 2009, up from 10.7 million or 23 percent at the end of the third quarter of 2009.

    An additional 2.3 million mortgages were approaching negative equity at the end of last year, meaning they had less than five percent equity. Thus even though the Case Schiller indexes have been showing a slight rise in housing prices during the fourth quarter, an additional 600,000 homeowners slipped below the waves during the quarter.

  82. jamil says:

    This is a true statement from Harry Reid, The Senate Majority Leader of the US Senate. Add another reason to pass new Stimulus bill – if you don’t, ladies get beaten up!
    Science has settled here.

    “”Men when they’re out of work tend to become abusive,” Reid said as he argued in favor of a cloture vote on the jobs bill. “I met with some people while I was home dealing with domestic abuse. It has gotten out of hand. Why? Men don’t have jobs. Women don’t have jobs either, but women aren’t abusive, most of the time. Men, when they’re out of work, tend to become abusive”

  83. A.West says:

    I think you should go back to your normal screen name. I’ve covered global stocks and economies for 20 years now, and while you’re right that the situation in the US is dire, and worse than most people realize, I’ve seen worse economic situations in other parts of the world, and they get over it eventually. You’re prepared, presumably, and most other people aren’t. You do your thing, and other people do theirs. Speak up for what’s right and the right course to take, and then don’t let other people’s misery bother you too much.
    The world won’t come to an end, so just deal with it the best you can, ok?

    You often have some good ideas, but sometimes you just go so far overboard and say such outrageous things that it’s all people notice about you.

    I know you worry about riots and roving armed gangs, but in the US, most of the raping and plundering has been and will likely continue to be done via the political process.

  84. Veto That says:

    This actually wouldnt be a bad idea. but i wonder if this effects inverse etfs?

    The Securities and Exchange Commission is expected to approve a measure to restrict short sales on shares once they have fallen 10%, sources said. Charles Schwab, General Electric and thousands of people sent the SEC a petition urging the agency to adopt a permanent short-selling restriction. Meanwhile, Goldman Sachs, Citadel Investment Group and other hedge funds expressed opposition to such curbs.


  85. safeashouses says:

    #60 Final Doom,

    Get that agent a bread machine. You can make a 1.5 loaf for 75 cents, under 50 cents if you use no name flour.

  86. Final Doom says:

    veto (73)-

    HUD- and their affiliate brokers- only market FHA foreclosures. It is a revolving, online bid process.

    Anything FHA that’s remotely good in NJ goes in a few days. The stuff that piles up, like the 50 pages of Ohio listings, is complete garbage.

    Also, understand that HUD was a de minimus part of the NJ market until 2008. If anything, the number, momentum and quality of NJ HUD foreclosures is ahead of us, not behind.

  87. john says:

    Vito, 55% down is squat when the crap hits the fan. One old client of mine only used to do 100% collateralized mortgage that were marked to market daily. Lets say you want to borrow one million for a mortgage. You have to move one million in investment grade bonds/stocks/cds/t-bills etc into bank. Good stuff in a trust agreeemnt. If value of portfolio fell you had to pony up more cash. In return bank got a risk free loan that was 100% collateralized by cash and still had a back up as a lien on house. You were also prohibited from doing home equity loans. What client got was amazing rate and very little cost to get mortgage. We should bring back that type of mortgage.

    Veto That says:
    February 24, 2010 at 9:06 am
    57 – the banks will be lining up to lend to freedy while the rest of us cant get loans with 790 ficos and 55% down payments.

  88. Final Doom says:

    chi (77)-

    When I go offline here, you’ll know what I’m doing instead.

  89. Final Doom says:

    scribe (81)-

    Front and back = purchase and liquidation

  90. frank says:

    “Anything FHA that’s remotely good in NJ goes in a few days.”

    This can’t be correct. coming from Clot??? Where’s the recession?

  91. Final Doom says:

    SG (82)-

    Bonuses for all! Job well done.

  92. 3b says:

    #79 You gotta love it 399k, with a shower that does nto work, and a 10k a year tax bill.

  93. Final Doom says:

    West (85)-

    Disagree. Amerikans are soft and degenerate and have no experience of dealing with adversity. When it hits in force, society will completely break down.

  94. Veto That says:

    Proposals to curb speculation are based on misconception

    Darrell Duffie, a professor of finance at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business, argues that proposals to curtail speculative trading, including making it illegal in the credit default swap market, seem to be based on a misconception. Duffie writes that the measures could actually harm the financial market and make it difficult for investors to sell or hedge positions quickly.


  95. Final Doom says:

    safe (87)-

    Do I look like United Way? I’ve already fronted this person over 12K.

  96. Final Doom says:

    john (89)-

    My very first mortgage was done that way. They basically held my family assets in a vise.

    I got a 4% rate in an 11% environment, though.

  97. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:


    ah – ha. I see. Thank you

  98. safeashouses says:

    #97 Final Doom

    Then get 1 for the office. The aroma of baking bread may cancel out the stench of despair.

    Also you can get a real good one for $90.

  99. Final Doom says:

    West (85)-

    Imagine a billion people whose minds function in a way similar to Frank’s at post #92.

    We in a whole heap of trouble.

  100. Veto That says:

    89 – John, who would take a loan like that and if you had liquid securities to put up as collateral, why wouldnt you just cash them out to buy the home in cash?
    Those terms are basically saying that banks arent lending.

  101. Final Doom says:

    safe (100)-

    If I forget and leave it on one night, will it burn down my building?

  102. Final Doom says:

    veto (102)-

    The benefit to the borrower on these loans is that the notes are rarely recorded and the banks usually fail to mark-to-market in a timely way.

    It’s also really easy to further encumber properties mortgaged in such a way.

    Not that I would know. ;)

  103. Veto That says:

    Concerns grow over China’s sale of US bonds

    Evidence is mounting that Chinese sales of US Treasury bonds over recent months are intended as a warning shot to Washington over escalating political disputes rather than being part of a routine portfolio shift as thought at first.


  104. hughesrep says:


    You’d have to disable a safety feature or two. You would most likely get caught. Damn UL.

  105. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot 103 Heaven forbid. Hahahaha….

  106. safeashouses says:

    #103 Doom

    Possibly. I think they bake at between 320 and 350 depending on the setting.

    I always unplug ours as I take the loaf out.

    I’m not paying $3.50 for 20 ozs of highly refined bleached and bromated flour, water, gluten from who knows where, held together and kept fresh by a list of additives I’d have to ask Hyde or Ben what the hell they are.

    They also make great pizza dough.

  107. stu says:


    “Why does the fact that consumers are paying credit card bills before mortgages surprise anyone?”

    You can continue buying necessities with your credit card. You are underwater in your home loan so you can’t trade it for anything but a loss. Better save some room on your balance for a tent though.

  108. Mr Hyde says:

    Safe 108

    you don’t want to know.

  109. Painhrtz says:

    Safe, I second Hyde’s remark. Look up Tween 80 on Wiki and have fun if you really want to know.

  110. dan says:


    Weather permitting, I’m going to Vegas tomorrow. Mid-week February is going to be dead even in the best of times. Smith and Wollensky on Saturday night for those talking about steak last night.

  111. Final Doom says:

    What food group do polymers belong to?

  112. stu says:

    dan (112):

    I am jealous. If you need any foodie or gambling advice…shoot me an email.

  113. skep-tic says:


    “My take is that the long-predicted “rush for the exits” is about to be on…and the gubmint and their cronies are positioning themselves to be out the doors before they are barred shut forever.”

    OK, isn’t this premised on dollar collapse? How likely is that in the next 90 days?

  114. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [58] veto

    If that gets any traction, it will crush the muni markets, IMHO.

    I foresee bipartisan support from states and municipalities to kill it, as it would dry up their available capital pool, and result in higher rates for their bonds, resulting in more debt and higher taxes.

  115. Final Doom says:

    Warming weather and longer days in the Mediterranean. Good times:

    Feb. 24 (Bloomberg) — Greek police fired tear-gas and clashed with demonstrators in central Athens after a march organized by unions to oppose Prime Minister George Papandreou’s drive to cut the European Union’s biggest budget deficit.

    Hooded youths threw rocks, marble and other objects at riot police after the march today to the country’s Parliament building. At least one person was detained.

    “People on the street will send a strong message to the government but mainly to the European Union, the markets and our partners in Europe that people and their needs must be above the demands of markets,” Yiannis Panagopoulos, president of the private-sector union GSEE, told NET TV yesterday. “We didn’t create the crisis.”


    Don’t look now, but the riots have spread to Spain. Can’t find anything in English yet, but ZH has posted some Spanish media reporting.

  116. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [58] veto

    Either that, or the BAB becomes the new muni, and states slip further into irrelevance.

  117. Final Doom says:

    skep (115)-

    Not premised on the dollar collapse at all. I’m just predicting an accelerated pace of RE liquidations of all types.

    BTW, it occurs to me that us private sector folk may not have to riot at all. Given the occurrences in Europe- and the fact that our own problems may result in public sector unions getting cut off at the knees first- it’s plausible to expect that our public union rank-and-file will be the first to storm the ramparts.

  118. relo says:

    117: Those granite counter tops will come in handy after all.

    Hooded youths threw rocks, marble and other objects…

  119. Mr Hyde says:


    Spain is a tactical nuke set to a blind timer.

    Wonder what happens when you have 50% youth unemployment and the political/social structure means it will be a cold day in he’ll before you get a job barring another meth fueled debt bubble.

  120. Final Doom says:

    Funny what 40% UE does to youth.

  121. Simon says:

    I think the bigger problem with the Final Clot de Shumpter is his negative opinion bleeds into any topic on this thread, however frivolous. Discussion about a Movie, he states why the lead actor is a loser washed up drug addict. Its starting to wear thin.

    A.West says:
    February 24, 2010 at 9:40 am

    I think you should go back to your normal screen name. I’ve covered global stocks and economies for 20 years now, and while you’re right that the situation in the US is dire, and worse than most people realize, I’ve seen worse economic situations in other parts of the world, and they get over it eventually. You’re prepared, presumably, and most other people aren’t. You do your thing, and other people do theirs. Speak up for what’s right and the right course to take, and then don’t let other people’s misery bother you too much.
    The world won’t come to an end, so just deal with it the best you can, ok?

    You often have some good ideas, but sometimes you just go so far overboard and say such outrageous things that it’s all people notice about you.

    I know you worry about riots and roving armed gangs, but in the US, most of the raping and plundering has been and will likely continue to be done via the political process.

  122. Final Doom says:

    Simon (123)-

    Sorry to intrude on your happiness. Go back to j#&king off.

  123. john says:

    Because some people, like me, have bonds yielding 8%, but a 100% collateralized loan can be had for as low as $4%. Smithbarney also does this. Smithbarney also gets credit for asset under management. So Smith Barney wants the client to keep one million in account asset under management and have citi do one million dollar loan at 4% risk free. Win win. Even a better deal for someone with one million in 5% tax free munits who borrows one million at 4% that is tax deductable. You should not be borrowing money cause you don’t have money.

    Veto That says:
    February 24, 2010 at 9:56 am
    89 – John, who would take a loan like that and if you had liquid securities to put up as collateral, why wouldnt you just cash them out to buy the home in cash?
    Those terms are basically saying that banks arent lending.

  124. Final Doom says:

    Watching Ron Paul rip Bergabe a new one right now is bringing me happiness.

  125. Final Doom says:

    …accuses Bergabe of an undercover bailout of Greece.

  126. safeashouses says:

    And now for something really important. Odds of who Cheryl Cole winds up with.


  127. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde I would even hazard to throw France into the mix as well. While their unemployment numbers are lower than spain there is a history of simmering unrest in both the muslim and regular french youth populations. Proximity to the Iberian pennisula could be a real MF’er for the french.

  128. safeashouses says:

    Hyde and Painhrtz

    I probably don’t want to know. I got tired of paying $4 for organic bread that still had gluten added to it. So I’ve switched to making my own. Takes less than 10 minutes to put the ingredients in and clean up. also 1 more way for me to drop out of mainstream consumption/low quality society.

  129. Final Doom says:

    safe (128)-

    John Terry?

  130. Final Doom says:

    safe (130)-

    toxic chemical emulsifiers > gluten

  131. Mr Hyde says:

    Relo 120,

    Does that get you charged with terrorism if its radioactive granite?

  132. 3b says:

    New Home sales fall to their lowest level since 1963, (record low) and that is with the 8k tax credit. So you know the tax credit will be extended, and probably expanded.Oh and the market is up about 100 points. There you go.

  133. Final Doom says:

    Surreal exchange between Maxine Waters & Bergabe.

    She is an absolute idiot.

  134. safeashouses says:

    #139 Final Doom

    How come John’s name isn’t on that list?

    Or more importantly, mine?

  135. Mr Hyde says:


    The Muslim population in europe that refuses to assimilate is a huge threat in terms of stability and unrest.

    Immigration is fine when the you have a fair degree of assimilation, but what is happening in europe is going to be messy long term.

    DO we see the eruopean natives rioting against the muslims even thought both are unemployed and basically screwed?

    It would be amusing in a sick way.

  136. freedy says:

    waters, what a waste who put her in office?

  137. Final Doom says:

    hyde (137)-

    All ideas that result in population thinning are welcome.

  138. njescapee says:

    maxine waters + pelosi = scarey movie the sequel

  139. Final Doom says:

    freedy (138)-

    An entire Congressional district full of illiterate, ignorant welfare cases.

  140. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    139 should start with 140

  141. Final Doom says:

    escape (140)-

    Imagine them making out with each other.

  142. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde you can think of it as new form of reality television. The coming explosion between secularist Europe and their unassimilated muslim masses (thanks political correctness) has the possibility of making the spanish inquisition look like a minor human rights infraction. It will basically be a preview of what will happen in the Southwest 20 years down the road. go La Raza!

  143. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [135] doom

    Tell us something we don’t know. I have heard that twit’s screed ever since she got elected and decided to anoint herself the next Adam Clayton Powell.

    At the risk of getting the fringes in a snit, she is, without question, the representative from ACORN (figuratively, if not literally). And as for her district, 141 is absolutely accurate.

  144. njescapee says:

    rep maloney referred to pres omama. funny

  145. Painhrtz says:


    Yep it was definately the bad weather, not the economy, not unemployment, blizzards that is why mortgage aps are at a 16 year low.


  146. Final Doom says:

    Sorry; got the Pelosi + Waters visual stuck in my head. Gotta go purge.

  147. A.West says:

    You need to read this:

    Despite all the stupidity you see around you, in a free society, a growing population is a good thing. Julian Simon cited Austrian economists and hard evidence in support of an anti-malthusian outlook.

  148. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [144] pain

    Given that americans, esp. in the S.W., are more heavily armed than Europeans, I cannot see that coming to a good end.

    My prediction is that the next round of racial unrest will resemble the deep south of the jim crow era.

  149. Mr Hyde says:


    In europe the muslim males are the prevailing favorite in my book. The Europeans arent nearly as mentally prepared to mentally or socially for mowing down protesters with live ammo.

    In the US it would have nice debate on the news networks followed by a PPV version.

    Europe may like to think that they are more refined, more humane, but thats going to bite them in the rear when it gets ugly.

    I agree with Nom about the southwest. That would heat up very quickly. There are already local groups that are just 1 step below militia that are just aching for la raza or the like to start something

  150. Mr Hyde says:


    more heavily armed then europenas

    Europeans are armed at all????? What, a few shot guns for bird hunting? Besides Switzerland Europe’s public is largely UNARMED and unaccustomed that the level of violence that Americans find amusing

  151. skep-tic says:

    let’s just settle the racial unrest on the squash court like gentlemen:


  152. Painhrtz says:

    Nom, Hyde fun times if you would have told me 15 years ago I would be yearning for the halcyon days of mutually assurred destruction my prevailing notion would have been you are insane.

    I miss the cold war

  153. dan says:

    Maxine Waters is not an idiot. An idiot wouldn’t want to nationalize everything so she and her husband can get a piece of it. She’s a dangerous moron a la the Barney Frank type.

  154. Veto That says:

    “If that gets any traction, it will crush the muni markets, IMHO.
    it would dry up their available capital pool, and result in higher rates for their bonds, resulting in more debt and higher taxes.”

    Nom, this seems to be your area of expertise so i yield to your outlook but note that many bab deals are coming to market with superior pricing to Tax Exampts. The larger buyer base potential would create a market with multiples of liquidity over what it is now. Plus it would create apples to apples competition with the corporate bond market, which should further benefit munis.

  155. Veto That says:

    nom, 118-
    Yeah the new proposed legislation was basically a bab with 25% subsidy.
    Will be fun to watch them fight this out.

  156. Mr Hyde says:


    whenever you think it can’t get worse… Don’t worry it can

  157. john says:

    BABs are the ulitmate stealth tax cut.

  158. 3b says:

    #159 It will hasten the demise of the muni market that many players have already left over the years, due to the continuing shrinkage of spreads. It will kill all the regional players, and you will have one or 2 big NY firms controlling that market, as volume is the only way to make money in that business now.

  159. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde I don’t know if quoting Douglass Adams or Bobby Mcferin will make me feel better so:

    Don’t Panic

    Don’t worry be happy

  160. lisoosh says:

    I’m going on the record in backing some of Clots predictions.

    I think Europe is headed for a summer of strikes, way before the US -already starting with Greece, Lufthansa, British steel workers. They still have unions over there, to a much bigger degree than in the US and take them more seriously.

    The cultures are also based on “what’s fair” so there is already an impetus. US is based on “American Dream”(TM) which actually keeps people more placid, always looking for their shot. Unions are also less entrenched here within workers.
    Clot is spot on that the first union strike risk here really will be the public ones.

    Also going to back him on the FHA/housing market collapse. I’m hearing more and more respected analysts saying the same thing with the data to back it up. I’ll post the NYU guys new paper when it comes out.

    My biggest headache now is preventing my husband from buying a house, especially in this area and at this time.

    Personally, I don’t want one anymore.

  161. sas says:

    1. gubmint
    2. organized crime
    3. housing
    4. laundered money
    5. military black ops

    add to that the drug trade, telecommunications, satellite tech

    organized crime is the govt.
    guinea in the suits are mid level.


  162. sas says:

    “guinea in the suits are mid level.”

    I take that back.
    some are very high up…. the more i think about it.


  163. sas says:


    I told you my experience working in this industry and our CDMA/South Korea story.

    Lets put it this way..
    lines tend to blur after awhile.


  164. Mr Hyde says:


    So what you are telling me is that if i was smart i would bail on the US pharma industry and offer my services to a columbian drug lord. What kind of benefits packages do they offer?

    The funny thing is that in college me and a few buddies figured that if you were smooth enough about it might actually pull it off.

    The production methods used for all but the highest end drugs could be streamlined and potentially made more portable by a talented engineer type.

    Then again the highest end drugs are made in pharma grade labs in china

  165. Affiliate marketing is the cheapest, and in some ways the easiest way to start your online business. All you need to do is to pre sell your visitors and get them to click through to your sponsors site. Their sales page does the selling and you collect your commission. Everybody is happy and you can snowball your profits to invest in your business development. In this way you can build your business faster, knowing you have a good income coming in. Affiliate marketing

  166. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [158] nj

    The Chesters say of their impending move to FLA that they are tired of the cold.

    Uh huh. Right.

    As PJ O’Rourke put it, they “came to bask in the warm glow of [Florida’s] tax policy.”

  167. Schumpeter says:

    west (149)-

    Yeah. Look at Japan for a prime example of what happens to a free country when people stop propagating.

    Too bad the same fundamentals apply for jihadist death cults.

  168. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde you and I think so much alike it is frightening. I have this whole aversion to ending up dead by some cartel though so I thought better of it.

    Our idea was to change the genetic makeup of MJ so it could fool drug sniffing pooches. Would enable the use of commercial airlines all over again by the cartels.

  169. Schumpeter says:

    hyde (151)-

    More refined? This is the continent that invented the hooligan and the soccer riot. If anything, the steady history of Europe-as-battleground makes them more prone to casual violence than any other place on Earth.

    “Europe may like to think that they are more refined, more humane, but thats going to bite them in the rear when it gets ugly.”

  170. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    Actually, I haven’t really studied the BABs at all yet to determine if they are worthwhile investment replacements for tax exempts.

    If they offer comparable after-tax yields, with the stability of federal financing, then yes, I think that they would overtake easily. But I haven’t looked into them yet.

  171. sas says:

    “What kind of benefits packages do they offer?”

    you’ll make in one year what you would in 5.

    tax free.

  172. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [174] schump

    must agree. Also, one thing I noticed in my interactions with Europeans is that they are, in general, much more overtly racist than americans.

    I think that if Europe were as heavily armed as the US, you’d already be seeing block wars, a la Northern Ireland.

  173. Shore don't remember pep rallys like this Guy says:
  174. Schumpeter says:

    relo (157)-

    Thanks, but I don’t use fluffers.

  175. Mr Hyde says:


    It is scary.

    My thought was to transplant some of the key MJ Genes into bamboo then possibly create a sterile version similar to what Monsanto does in order to avoid the fertilization issue. The ground work was already laid when i was in college and actively working with some of this stuff.

    A few of my more creative ideas will have to be shared over a beer.

  176. sas says:

    “I miss the cold war”

    yes, I miss the cheap oil days too.


  177. Mr Hyde says:


    Can i use you as a reference? No anyone hiring?

    joking ;)

  178. john says:

    As well they should be. For instance natural born Germans have a low birth rate. Muslims are invading countries having tons of kids and with welfar and free medical for all it is driving up the taxes for everyone. Since they won’t assimilate they drive the catholic churches and german traditional restaurants and stores of out business. On top of that uselss non-tax paying mosques open up and tear down tax paying businesses that employed Germans. The insult to injury is their countries would never allow this and would execute a German who tried to set up shop in their Muslim extremest countries. They need to close there borders to these people ASAP.

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    February 24, 2010 at 12:42 pm
    [174] schump

    must agree. Also, one thing I noticed in my interactions with Europeans is that they are, in general, much more overtly racist than americans.

    I think that if Europe were as heavily armed as the US, you’d already be seeing block wars, a la Northern Ireland.

  179. Mr Hyde says:

    No = Know

  180. Mr Hyde says:


    Its going to happen, but not until after bloodshed has already occurred.

    Sweden is having so real issues with its large Muslim population as well.

  181. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    The Fed computer models of collapse have led federal agents at the Federal Center in Denver to stockpiling pallets of gold bullion, gold coins, and bales of heroine to interact with gangs; so that between 4 and 12 days after a state of national civil emergency, like nuclear war, they could trade with the gangs that would control every city.

    Heres the model results for a 10 kiloton strike in LA.
    The violence will be… Just take a city, like, let’s say you had a city like Los Angeles and you took out 20 blocks with a 10-kiloton nuclear weapon, with a population kill of let’s say 200,000. And California devolved into a state where there’s no trucks going anywhere with any food. And this is a place where it’s a breadbasket.

    This state would be a seething caldron of death, and half the population would probably be dead within 30 days. Just because of the roving gangs shooting each other up, and trying to grab food that was left and getting trucks and whatever.

  182. Schumpeter says:

    shore (179)-

    It’s a short drive from “Two Teachers, One Chair” to “Two Girls, One Cup”.

    Wow. Who’d have thunk the Canucks had that in them? I’m almost proud of them.

  183. Mr Hyde says:

    Pain 173,

    thats why you stay a free agent to the highest bidder on a Per Assignment basis. Of course you charge a premium in order to cover the expense f your privately hired security detail.

    A lot of the work could probably be done remotely with brief site visits. With todays automation and a little networking, even more so.

  184. Shore Guy says:

    “Concerns grow over China’s sale of US bonds”

    If I were a holder of VAST quantities of USG debt, I would be nervous. Why are we surprised tht they are looking for others to take this debt off their hands?

  185. Schumpeter says:

    al (188)-

    Is that what’s under Denver Airport?

  186. Schumpeter says:

    Sure looks like the bull market in Greater Fools is dwindling by the day.

  187. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Thanks for that info. Guess Im going to lose all my home equity. F#ck it. Just glad I dont live in Maplewood. We gotta get that “real man” legislation sponsored by Michael Carrol passed. That way we can shoot and ask questions later.

  188. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Its actually Shriver AFB. And yes they do exist.

    Check this out. Low security DUMB(deep underground military base)

  189. sas says:

    “How is organized crime a big player in HUD …front end and back?”

    -artificially inflate (pump) and buy on the dump.
    -finance process via drug trade, black market smuggling (ex. cigarettes), organized crime. which in turn feeds the “dump”
    -leverage with tax havens, endowments, muni bonds, and govt subsidies.
    -allow only companies ( via the subsidies) and politicians (campaign donations) whom follow your philosophy into your “good ol boy club”.


  190. Shore Guy says:


    I was not familiar with the term you used above and loked it up. That is sick beyond my ability to express. Egads!

    For others unfamiliar with the “one cup”:


  191. renter says:


    Crusades….the sequel

  192. john says:

    My favorite term is Blumpkin

    It is also on Urban Dictionary.

  193. stu says:

    Shore Guy (197):

    You gotta actually watch it. Even funnier are the youtube videos of people watching the 2G1C video.

  194. renter says:


    New home sales hit record low in January

    The Commerce Department reported Wednesday that new home sales dropped 11.2 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual sales pace of 309,000 units, the lowest level on records going back nearly a half century. The big drop was a surprise to economists who had expected sales would rise about 5 percent over December’s pace.

  195. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde – I never thought of bamboo, brilliant! We thought of using a form of rye grass splicing the THC producing genes into the grass’ sequence. We ran into two issues propagation without fear of spreading rampant, and since popoches technically smell the THC altering the structure of the molecule without losing its efficacy. not as easy as one would think.

  196. 3b says:

    #201who had expected sales would rise about 5 percent over December’s pace.

    And they expected that rise why exactly??

  197. Shore Guy says:

    “You gotta actually watch it. ”

    I will pass.

  198. renter says:


    The expectation was probably based on the tax credit.

  199. 3b says:

    #205 True, but how much demand via the tax credit has already been pulled forward? I guess the econ’s did not factor that in. And a tax credit means nothing to the unemployed.

  200. Future Looter says:

    If citigroup banks actually blocked people from accessing their money, which branch in jersey gets a Molotov c0cktail through the window first?

    Of course, I don’t condone such behavior, just curious.

    /I got my Kevlar and my two step

  201. Juice Box Sean says:

    re: #201 – re: new home sales drop.

    Yes, funny how those economist surveyed were expecting a 5% rise in new homes sales yet the home builders were not and aren’t expecting a rise in new home sales anytime soon.

    Just take a look at the housing start numbers.


  202. relo says:

    Fron end, back end and all throughout.

    Appaloosa, which has asked the court to allow it to intervene in the matter, also claims that CW Capital has “irreconcilable conflicts of interest” because it is both the “servicer” for the mortgage and an important debtholder.


  203. Juice Box Sean says:

    Here is a new one.

    Accuweather warns ‘snowacane’ to menace Northeast.

    70 MPH winds?


  204. Goebbels says:

    This final doom guy is funny! I want him on my side! First, he owes me a coffee. Spilled it laughing at the dungeon comment.

  205. Painhrtz says:

    After yesterday’s jew/zionist comments now Goebbels is here

    Stu/Gator I am going to preemptively apologize for the stupidity that is sure to ensue

  206. Jamil's Twin says:

    Jamil’s hero is Justin Barrett. You know, the Boston cop who sent an email calling Henry Louis gates a ‘banana-eating jungle monkey’ and then had the temerity to say, ‘i’m not racist.’

    also, we are devastated by Scott brown’s vote. The tea party is over, back to irrelevance.

    /horse’s head, etc

  207. Painhrtz says:

    I just found this out


    If you don’t see any posts from me I’m shaking from the sugar rush in the corner.

  208. stu says:


    I have thick skin. When they begin rounding us up into the cattle cars, then I might be somewhat offended.

  209. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [215] stu

    “When they begin rounding us up into the cattle cars, then I might be somewhat offended.”

    Egad. Lots of Na-zi overtones here today.

  210. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [213] twin

    Racists in the Boston Police Department?

    I’m shocked, shocked, I tell you.

  211. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [213] twin

    About the worst thing the left can do to the tea party crowd is to try to marginalize it.

    Groups like that feed off of marginalization; it is what gives them their impetus, their fuel.

    But I suppose the left finds it necessary. As the Japanese ambassador to N@zi Germany noted, f@scism needs a scapegoat (he famously remarked that he was impressed with f@scism but that it wouldn’t work in Japan because they had no jews.)

  212. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I am thinking that if things flare up in Euroland (strikes, demonstrations, anarchist violence) to the point of being disruptive, and not merely annoying, that the dollar will be a safe haven currency.

    Any takers?

  213. stu says:


    “to the point of being disruptive, and not merely annoying, that the dollar will be a safe haven currency.”

    I think we may be seeing a little of this already.

  214. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Tent Cities spring up around New York

    The recession has left many Americans in urgent need of shelter and with nowhere to go, forcing some to retreat to the woods. In the countryside, just one hour’s drive from Manhattan, a shanty town of tents has sprung up. Anastasia ChUrkina meets the people for whom camping out, has become a way of life.

  215. Painhrtz says:

    Nom – I guess it is a best of the worst argument. Australian Pound? Maybe that is when china unleashes the yuan on the world but then they would have to mark to market their slave labor basically Fcuking their competitive advantage.

    Nom the japanese had the chinese and undying devotion to the service of the emperor. They didn’t really need facism. Just natural resources.

  216. njescapee says:

    Nom, I think you’re right about US as safe haven. We’ll probably get a VAT and some triage to fix SSI, medicare etc. before the wheels come off.

  217. dan says:

    #207 I’d guess the Far Hills branch as long as the butler is told to light the match and throw. Otherwise, it’s just not getting done there!!!!

  218. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    A VAT would be the final nail in the coffin. The perfect combo to finish off the middle class.

    The construct of Supercapitalism and Communism would then be complete.

  219. Painhrtz says:

    Al Lakewood is not an hour from Manhattan. 21 year old is smoking cigs, surrounded by MDF board and has a wood burning stove. He is doing better than most of the hunting camps I have stayed at. They have running water, doesn’t need to be hot to get clean. Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.

    He’ll the thing that pissed me off was the Mexicans in the piece, hello INS

  220. njescapee says:

    Al, not sure I follow you about the VAT. If they combine a mild VAT with some significant cost reductions in govt it could be a good thing. We need more than 50% of our citizens / residents to carry the tax burden.

  221. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    I see no problem with people living like that. Nothing wrong with poor and happy. The Mexicans love it. Soon Americans will love it, once they get used to it of course.

  222. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    227. I agree but there are better ways to do it.

    Abolish the IRS and create a Fair Tax. Essentially a massive sales tax that is unavoidable for the most part.

    Flat tax of 17% would also work. I like the fair tax because it can be legally avoided by consuming less.

  223. Schumpeter says:

    sas (196)-

    I’ll give you an A+ on that little quiz.

    Any pray like crazy that you keep a very, very low profile. You know way too much.

    Too bad I do, too.

  224. Schumpeter says:

    Sean (208)-

    Rest assured that when demand for new housing rises, builders will be so asleep at the wheel, they will miss it.

  225. Mr Hyde says:


    without fear of spreading rampant

    The rampant spread was actually a benefit as far as we were concerned. Are you going to arrest half the nation for having it growing wild in the back yard?

    But the sterile gene manipulation similar to biotech corn was our solution to that issue.

  226. Schumpeter says:

    plume (218)-

    When Cheney finally croaks, it will be amusing to watch the teabaggers become a death cult devoted to his memory and advancing his ideas.

  227. Schumpeter says:

    plume (219)-

    Keep in mind that in the race to the bottom, the currency that devalues last is the bagholder.

  228. Yikes says:

    Al “The Thermostat” Gore says:
    February 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    The Fed computer models of collapse have led federal agents at the Federal Center in Denver to stockpiling pallets of gold bullion, gold coins, and bales of heroine to interact with gangs; so that between 4 and 12 days after a state of national civil emergency, like nuclear war, they could trade with the gangs that would control every city.

    is there a link to this? you dream it up??

  229. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:

    I saw a commercial last night on late night TV … telling people to DEMAND that their legislators add “a few pennies” in new taxes to soda …to save us all from obesity, of course …

    Gov. Patterson has something in his proposed budget where he’s talking about raising $650 million for healthcare thru – you guessed it – new tobacco taxes and a tax on soda, despite the uproar he got the last time he proposed it last spring.

    And once they cross the line into ordinary food and drink …

  230. NJCoast says:

    What recession. I just drove my daughter to town to catch a plane and there were three cruise ships worth of tourists waddling around Charlotte Amalie, carrying bags stuffed with coconut shell ashtrays, t-shirts and what not.

  231. Shore Guy says:

    ” Charlotte Amalie”


  232. Veto That says:

    “is there a link to this? you dream it up??”

    Yikes, Al dont do links.
    His posts are “take it or leave it”.

  233. Final Doom says:

    My Schumpeterian light, breezy mood just passed.

    Back on the chain gang:

    $42 Billion 5 Year Auction Closes At 2.395%, 32.83% Allotted At High – Large Tail, Large Direct Take Down, Just 40% Indirects


  234. Barbara says:

    My 6 yr old had a “lock down” drill today at school. That’s when the alarm rings loudly and teachers are instructed to turn out all lights and lock door and huddle kiddos into a hard to see from the windows corner of the room (so shooter can’t tell there are kids inside). The announcement that it was going to happen came this morning and he was almost in tears, these drills scare him even though he doesn’t understand exactly what they are for.
    Good times.

  235. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    They should be learning how to duck and cover and potassium iodide pills.

  236. Veto That says:

    240 Schumpty, what is that auction result telling you? China/Japan not buying as much?

  237. Final Doom says:

    Treasury-Fed circle jerk.

  238. Yikes says:

    Al – Really, is there a link to that? I googled it up and nothing.

    Is this some “take it or leave it” garbage, or is there a hint of truth to it?

    And by hint, i mean anything to back it up

  239. Anon E. Moose says:

    239.Veto That says:
    February 24, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Yikes, Al dont do links.
    His posts are “take it or leave it”.

    Just like the real Al G., non? Facts get… inconvenient.

  240. Veto That says:

    If you go to Conspiracy.com and hit the link that is positioned between Aliens and the JFK assasination, you will find all the supporting evidence you need.

    There are also great topics about tin hats, amonia laced immunizations and detailed synposis highlighting exactly how the world ends in 2012.

    you can spend all day there if you wanted to. al does.

    Trust me, we have bigger problems then hidden underground bunkers and its in the newspaper every day.

  241. Final Doom says:

    Fractional reserve gold banking, anyone?

    Keep in mind that if this is the kind of hijinks going on in the bullion bank operations of GS and JPM, the potential fail is multiplied exponentially.

    Got physical?


  242. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Its in 3hrs worth of readings of interview transcripts.

    Youtube search Dr. Bill Deagle.

    government insider/whistleblower

  243. Ben says:

    “Fractional reserve gold banking, anyone?

    Keep in mind that if this is the kind of hijinks going on in the bullion bank operations of GS and JPM, the potential fail is multiplied exponentially.

    Got physical?”

    This should not be a surprise to anyone who studies the gold market or the history of the gold market. The idea of paper receipts for gold has be mired in corruption for hundreds of years.

  244. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Soros is buying bullion. Thats all anyone needs to know.

  245. Mr Hyde says:

    Ben, Doom

    You think there is enough physical gold to cover paper more then 10 – 15% of paper contracts?


  246. Juice Box Sean says:

    re: #241 Barbara

    Cumon now don’t you remember “Duck and Cover” Drill? Hint A-Bomb

    In the Midwest they still do “Drop, Cover and Hold On” for the Tornados.

  247. relo says:

    147: Guess this week’s will be down due to weather also.


  248. prtraders2000 says:

    My wife’s 19 yr old neice just moved in with us. Trying to get her affairs in order. The amount of text messaging she does is insane. I asked how many per month and she said about 3,000! I looked it up and apparently this is normal for a teen. No wonder she flunked out freshman year of college. The other half of her day is on facebook.

  249. Barbara says:

    is it really any different than grown ups Fing around all day on the internet while at their job? We are all overpaid.

  250. make money says:

    Got physical?


    I’m swiming in it. As a matter of fact its all I got besides USD debt.

  251. Anon E. Moose says:


    Look on the bright side, she flunked out after ony one year. She could be in the same barely employable position, four times deeper in non-dischargeable student debt, and pursuing a masters in “African-American Studies”, and doomed to work in the used house sales indusrty (see link @[157]), the travel agents of our day, such that it is and so long as it lasts.

  252. Barbara says:

    since getting on FB and getting back in touch with people from childhood and HS I’m aghast at the level of retarded emoting and attention whoring. When the 40 somethings are posting bikini photos and taking sex surveys, can you really scoff at the teens and the text msging?

  253. prtraders2000 says:

    Has nothing to do with being overpaid. The kid can’t focus on anything actually around her in real life. The phone is constantly vibrating while she stares at the computer screen and taps out messages. I’m not even annoyed by it, but it is amazing to see how much different she operates compared to when I was a teen. Or even my sis who’s in her mid twenties.

  254. renter says:

    I think if you are failing out of college then maybe you should scale back the texting. I could not do my job if I sent 3,000 text a day.

  255. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [221] al

    “Tent Cities spring up around New York”

    We will have to give this country of tent cities and other ungovernable urban pockets (think Pakistani tribal areas) a name.

    I nominate Barackistan

  256. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Or we can save that name for the rural areas of the US that will effectively cut themselves off from federal government control when TSHTF.

  257. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [260] barbara

    I have seen little of that from my h.s. friends and acquaintances on FB. Mostly because they were, and are, pretty level-headed and beyond the hey, what are you up to, its just about their kids, travels, and jobs.

    In other words, utterly boring.

  258. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Whoops. Shoulda done some research before I came up with that name:


  259. Barbara says:

    261. My point, its nothing unique to teens. I wonder how many page turns we average daily? They use a particular part of satellite/internet, we use another. Its the same difference.

  260. Barbara says:

    Boring would restore my faith. I’m seeing some of what you describe amongst my closet family and friends from HS, the rest look like reality TV train wrecks. My blood runs cold, my memories have just been sold. I should have stayed off of FB.

  261. Final Doom says:

    make (258)-

    Nice arb.

    You ditched your Knicks season tix yet? If I held ’em, McGrady would’ve been the last straw.

  262. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    “We have arrived at a juncture in our politics where reasonable efforts to update our regulations, or make basic investments in our future, are too often greeted with cries of ‘government takeover’ or even ‘socialism’, . . . Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, I am an ardent believer in the free market,. . . .” Barack Obama

    “Nothing indicts like denial” Lyndon Johnson.

  263. Juice Box Sean says:

    prtraders2000 – “trying to get her affairs in order”

    use some tough love – kill the internet connection and the phone, and replace it with a schedule of chores. Room and board should not be free for any adult who can actually work.

  264. Barbara says:

    closet = closest – heh

  265. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [268] barbara

    speaking of high school, you could have spared me the J. Geils riff.

  266. Veto That says:

    Mortgage Rates May Not Rise Much When Fed Support Ends

    Mortgage rates, which many feared would rise sharply when the Federal Reserve stops propping up the market at the end of March, may actually not budge much at all, analysts say.


  267. Veto That says:

    Is the CEO of Toyota really named Akio Toyoda?
    I guess its a family business. ha.

  268. prtraders2000 says:


    Her parents already cut her off and I’m no sucker. Rent’s free. But she’s paying her share of the groceries ($50/wk) and utilities ($95/mo). I loaned her the money for the 1st two classes at O.C.C. but she’s got 2k coming in a tax refund in a few weeks, so I’ll get that back. Sweet and smart kid that let the typical teen b.s. cloud her judgement.

  269. confused in NJ says:

    Interesting, no comments today on tomorrow’s Snow Maggedon. I hope they are wrong about the 70 MPH forecast. Newer houses can’t go above 50 MPH.

  270. Juice Box Sean says:

    re: #276 – prtraders2000 -Teen B.S. at 19 isn’t quite the same thing as Teen B.S. at 14. Most of her H.S. friends have hopefully moved onto college or a job by now an aren’t just texting and on facebook all day. This kid still needs parenting to help her grow up. I have seen plenty of late 20 somethings still crashing with mom and dad with the do nothing jobs wasting time or wasting themselves day in and day out. What makes you think she will do better in school this time? 6 credits of classroom time leaves plenty of room for a job. How about an internship at a hospital or something to toughen her up and her grow up allot.

  271. d2b says:

    I’m off FB. Seemed to get old quick with the updates and posts of what people were making for dinner and whose kids were students of the month. Conversations between married people in public made me gag. Last straw was a guy who kept posting his workout regimen.

    Good riddance.

  272. Mr Hyde says:


    I’m disappointed. You want to name tent cities but no mention of hooverville? or more aptly for modern day incarnations, Obamaville? Or perhaps O’ville.

    O’ville it is:

  273. Barbara says:


    “Last straw was a guy who kept posting his workout regimen.”

    This is familiar, yep. There is also a sickening mix of Evangelical multilevel marketing types who like to troll for suckers (NuSkin, anyone?)

  274. Mr Hyde says:

    Sean, pr

    This isnt very popular any more, but i am a fan of sink-or-swim. At some point they have had enough time to learn the basics and step out on their own.

  275. Juice Box Sean says:

    re #275 – more BS from Toyota.

    I was in one the other day and as a goof I pushed the stop/start button while driving much to the chagrin of the driver a co-worker of mine. The engine did not shut off on he first try. On the second try I held down the button for several seconds and it did shut off that time while driving. Who is the bonehead who designed this? Where does it say on the dashboard or on the button itself to hold the button down for several seconds in an emergency to kill the engine?

  276. Mr Hyde says:


    Any drive by wire system really should have an instant kill switch sort like those old fashioned key thing-a-majigers

  277. yo'me says:

    CENTRAL FALLS, R.I. – The blue-and-white banner exclaiming “anticipation” on the front of Central Falls High School seemed like a cruel joke for an institution so troubled that its leaders decided to fire every teacher by year’s end.


  278. Essex says:

    Lettin the Boogie air out, fun. I could never live in a condo.

  279. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Commies my eye!


    ATEOTD, they have to sell their goods and services to the outside to get cash to pay for whatever they require to purchase, pay taxes, etc.

    You know what we call this arrangement in tax circles?

    A Partnership.

    Wonder if they file K-1s?

  280. gary says:

    Hundreds of guys depended on Paulie and he got a piece of everything they made. And it was tribute, just like in the old country, except they were doing it here in America. And all they got from Paulie was protection from other guys looking to rip them off. And that’s what it’s all about. That’s what the FBI could never understand. That what Paulie and the organization does is offer protection for people who can’t go to the cops. That’s it. That’s all it is. They’re like the police department for wiseguys.

    What the f*ck are you looking at? ;)

  281. Morpheus says:

    You cannot make this sh*t up:

    After applying for the FID on Monday, my employer received a letter from the police department regarding my permit.

    OH MY GOD: THe partners interrogated me about why I need a gun, told that I do not need a gun, that I was more likely to be injured by that gun than use it against an assailant and the fact I have a young child should mitigate against having a gun.

    Then, they informed me that they are against non-police owning guns and will not participate in filling out the questionaire provided by the police.

    Thus, I called the police department and explained this to them. The police informed me that this will not kill my application. The police mentioned that some people have strong feelings about guns. They also wished me a good day and will call me when my application gets approved.

    Partners=control freaks. or liberals run amouk. Ironic since I am a liberal. The universe is not without Irony.

    Needless to say, the associates at the firm are aghast regarding the whole situation.

  282. skep-tic says:


    that is pathetic. maybe they will be a little afraid of you now though.

  283. Morpheus says:

    I do not mind control laws. Hey the mental health background check even seems reasonable. An employer who thinks that they can stop someone from getting a gun by not filling out the form is crazy.

    GOOD lord, I hope I do not end up as a poster boy for the NRA (unless I get a discount on Ammo. . .every man has his price)

  284. Morpheus says:

    even “gun control laws”. Damn . . .child was up a great deal last nite: nasty cough. Daddy very tired.

  285. 3b says:

    #274 said Kim Rupert, managing director of global fixed income analysis for Action Economics in San Francisco. “So we’re going to have to find some other sources of demand. The market’s pretty ingenious and it can fill that hole without serious consequences.

    Gee Kim how profound!! just aexactly what kind of crap are you trying to get out of your mouth.

  286. Yikes says:

    Morph- why would they call your employer? How does applying for a gun permit impact your work at the law firm?

  287. Essex says:

    289. #ssholes

  288. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    289. Morph,

    Looks like the UN has successfully indoctrinated your co workers. Stay the course.

  289. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [294] yikes

    It is a measure that has many purposes. The gov. will tell you that it is to make sure you are stable, not someone looking to shoot up the workplace.

    But the other purpose is to impose pressure on you not to apply. Especially law firms, which tend toward liberal because of the nature of lawyer’s work and their income sources.

    They would call Morph’s law firm in a heartbeat. That, BTW, is why I still hold a PA driver’s license. Once I get my shotgun, then I can move out of PA.

  290. Barbara says:

    289 – regift time next Xmas!

  291. jamil says:

    289 morph: well, you got what you voted for: gov intimidation and harassment on constitutional rights, high taxes and nanny state.

  292. Essex says:

    I gotta tell ya. I would be pissed. And a few folks would prolly be a little afeared.

  293. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [289] morph,

    I hope you weren’t surprised by that reaction.

    Unfortunately, given what you have told me, you are on the list, my friend.

    That was why, when I moved from NH to MD, and later from PA to NJ (well, haven’t actually moved on paper yet), I made sure I stocked up.

  294. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [292] morpheus.

    I feel your pain, re: kid. Get some sleep.

  295. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    And what is with all this reverence for the 2nd Amendment by avowed liberals like Morpheus and Essex? Don’t you know you are out of step with the party?

    Even my quasi-socialist friend in Philly got a handgun. I had a good time busting his chops over that.

  296. Morpheus says:

    I am already on the list: one of the candidates for layoffs.

    However, all the other associates and candidates in the litigation department own firearms.

    One the partners made a snide comment to one of them “Do you have a gun?” To which the quick witted associate replied “not on me at this time!”

  297. Veto That says:

    Do the partners know that the gun will be an uzi?

  298. Morpheus says:

    Jamil—I do not have a problem with background check. What I have a problem is with my employer, who is a contol freak, trying to control what I do in my own home.(please no red-state blue state arguments here… .We can all agree that no man likes to be told what to do, unless given a paycheck for doing so)

    Hell, the police department staff was a little pissed: the receptionist was aghast and stated that “you have a constitutional right to own a gun. .. your employer can’t deny that to you!”

  299. Morpheus says:

    305 Veto:
    the weapon will be 9mm carbine. Probably hi-point firearms…Cheap, lifetime warranty. . .made in USA. People love ’em or hate ’em.

    the smart mouth associate owns one and loves it.

    I know that their are better firearms out there, but not at that price point.

  300. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Morph, cool gun. Im probably going to finally get my pistol permit. Not a big fan of pistols so procrastinated.

    My wife was adamantly opposed to guns in the house. Now she asks when Im going to get a handgun.

    Its a good idea to train your significant other as well. Even if you hate guns or have kids at home. Get one, learn how to use it, then put it in the attic.

    In the future they may make it prohibitively expensive or painful to get.

  301. Essex says:

    303. Heh heh….Ah. I am usually out of step.

  302. Essex says:

    I am a lot less liberal this week, btw

  303. Final Doom says:

    morph (289)-

    You should find another place to work. You’re surrounded by self-righteous assholes.

  304. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Hey, I just learned that the Socialist annual convention will be in town next week, at (natch) Norman Thomas H.S. in NYC.


    One of the features speakers? Bertha Lewis of ACORN. And Obama’s old law school buddy, Cornel West (who is on the board of DSA). Some former labor people too (tell me something I don’t know).

    I think I just woke up Jamil!

  305. Final Doom says:

    Then again, we’re reaching a critical mass of narcoticized sheeple.

  306. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [311] doom

    “You should find another place to work. You’re surrounded by self-righteous assholes.”

    It’s a law firm. That’s like telling a miner that he’s surrounded by coal.

    I once said that law firms warp people, and to succeed in one, you had to be an asshole. Maybe that is why he (and me) are on the layoff lists.

    Though I noticed that I have become a much bigger asshole since moving to NJ. I guess it’s true that if you want to raise your game, you have to play with the best.

  307. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [308] al

    “In the future they may make it prohibitively expensive or painful to get.”

    That is why I got mine when I did. I am sure I could sell them for much more than I paid, too.

  308. Essex says:

    Wife just brought home a bottle of Knob Creek. What a woman.

  309. safeashouses says:

    “Hummer to close after collapse of Chinese deal”


    Where is John? He’d be all over this headline.

  310. Ben says:

    “Ben, Doom

    You think there is enough physical gold to cover paper more then 10 – 15% of paper contracts?”

    No one knows. All we can be sure of is that somewhere along the line, someone isn’t going to get their gold. Btw…I now expect gold to form a bubble before the US Dollar implodes. I’ll be watching it closely over the next 12 months. If Gold moves way up while other hard assets move down, I’ll be trading in all my gold for something more useful. Probably Silver.

  311. Morpheus says:

    Nom: Now I know why I am not a success in the legal profession (besides lousy proofreading skills). Don’t want to be an asshole. Not the way I practice law.

    Al gore:
    the gun is inexpensive. Will eventually buy two so that wife and I can “bond”

    Boy,it is hard to type and make a yeast starter at the same time.

  312. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Helicopter Ben says Ron Pauls accusations totally bizarre. I love to listen to Bernankes voice quiver everytime hes questioned by Paul.


  313. safeashouses says:

    Another casualty of the higher education bubble. Seton Hall dropping Indoor and Outdoor track program.


  314. safeashouses says:


    If they can you, can you use this latest incident to sue them or for leverage for a better package? I can see it now “Lawyer let go for exercising Constitutional rights”.

  315. Morpheus says:

    I like it!

  316. Final Doom says:

    morph (319)-

    If you had a gun, you could force someone else to do it. :)

    “Boy,it is hard to type and make a yeast starter at the same time.”

  317. Final Doom says:

    al (320)-

    Paul nailed Bergabe to the wall. Was he looking behind him for an exit?

  318. Final Doom says:

    Bergabe’s flinch when Paul started the Greek bailout thing was priceless.

    There’s something up with that.

  319. Final Doom says:

    I’ve got a gun, and Morph doesn’t…I’ve got a gun and Morph doesn’t…

  320. safeashouses says:

    #323 Morpheus,

    Are you the only one married to an Asian? Play the race card too. See how a liberal likes that one.

  321. Morpheus says:

    oh by the way:
    I went to law school in camden and you are full of Sh*t. looked like beruit or yugoslavia in the 1990s. Scary place.

    Federal court house was called the DMZ or check point charley: past that point and you were on your own.

    at night, more than two blocks from campus, you were in trouble.

    Hard to run two blocks from off campus bar to the school when you are drunk.

    Camden is a hell hole and that will never change!

  322. Mr Hyde says:


    my wife started giggling the first time I took her to the range

  323. Morpheus says:

    Yes. .. that is another good idea.

    327: now you are just being mean. however, if you can get a gun, then it should be no problem for me. Hell if “mr. doom and gloom” can get one, then my local PD will probably buy a gun for me! (Sounded funnier in my head!)

  324. juice box Sean says:

    Hyde – once took a leggy blond in shorty shorts one summer eveening on a date to the range, the driving range. The place was stacked with Asian Businessmen perfecting their stroke. After about 1/2 hour of her giggling and jumping up and down and shanking balls all over range in her shorty shorts those businessmen looked like the wanted to lop my head off with a sword.

  325. Ben says:

    329 Morpheus,

    Back in 2003 when I was on a Med School Interview at UMDNJ, they told me how they send a lot of students to work at Camden. She goes “now I know what your thinking, but I’m hearing a lot of people refer to it as the Hoboken of West NJ. A lot of people are moving in and fixing it up”. I heard other random stories of people flipping properties in Camden. Whenever someone buys something in Camden, that should signal a market top.

  326. Barbara says:

    Kramer Hill is the only decent hood in Camden and that was years ago, no idea if its still good.

  327. skep-tic says:

    I don’t think you need to be a d*ck to be a good lawyer, you just have to have a high tolerance for d*cks. And the ability to work without sleep for absurdly long stretches.

  328. safeashouses says:


  329. brewcrew says:

    Not so fast my friend

  330. skep-tic says:

    Not even close.

  331. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    oy vey.


  332. renter says:


    Proposed Bridgewater-Raritan School District budget makes deep cuts
    By Amanda Peterka / Messenger-Gazette
    February 24, 2010, 5:41PM

    “Even though this would be the first budget decrease in at least eight years, school officials expect the total property tax levy on residents will be increased to the 4 percent cap maximum allowed by the state for that part of the school budget financed solely by property tax revenue.”

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