One in seven homes sold in NJ in some stage of foreclosure

From the Record:

15% of NJ homes sold in second quarter were in foreclosure process

About 15 percent — or one in every seven — homes sold in New Jersey during the second quarter were in some stage of the foreclosure process, RealtyTrac reported Wednesday.

That compares with about 24 percent of homes sold nationwide during the quarter, according to the California-based RealtyTrac, which tracks the foreclosure market nationwide.

RealtyTrac said distressed sales made up a smaller part of the market than a year earlier, but that was in part because the number of regular sales increased as a result of the federal home buyers’ tax credit, now expired.

James J. Saccacio, RealtyTrac’s CEO, predicted that the end of the tax credit could drive more buyers back to distressed sales. Those can be bank-owned properties or short sales, in which a lender agrees to accept less than is owed on the mortgage so a seller can get out from under an unaffordable mortgage.

Such sales can be a good deal for buyers, according to RealtyTrac. It estimated that in the second quarter, homes in the foreclosure process sold, on average, for 26 percent less than non-foreclosure sales.

The best deals came in bank-owned properties, which sold at a 34 percent discount.

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154 Responses to One in seven homes sold in NJ in some stage of foreclosure

  1. grim says:

    From the NY Times:

    JPMorgan Suspending Foreclosures

    In a sign that the entire foreclosure process is coming under pressure, a second major mortgage lender said that it was suspending court cases against defaulting homeowners so it could review its legal procedures.

    The lender, JPMorgan Chase, said on Wednesday that it was halting 56,000 foreclosures because some of its employees might have improperly prepared the necessary documents. All of the suspensions are in the 23 states where foreclosures must be approved by a court, including New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Florida and Illinois.

    The bank, which lends through its Chase Mortgage unit, has begun to “systematically re-examine” its filings to verify that they meet legal standards, a spokesman, Tom Kelly, said.

    Last week, GMAC Mortgage said it was suspending an undisclosed number of foreclosures to give it time to take a closer look at its own procedures. GMAC simultaneously began withdrawing affidavits in pending court cases, throwing their future into doubt.

  2. grim says:

    From Newsroom NJ:

    N.J. Assembly to vote Thursday to override Christie veto of homebuyer tax credit

    The Assembly on Thursday will vote to override Gov. Chris Christie’s veto of legislation its Democratic sponsors believe would create jobs and boost the economy through a state homebuyer’s tax credit.

    The lower house will also vote on legislation designed to ease property taxes, permit advertising on school buses to generate money for schools, boost small businesses and provide more tools to combat drug offenders.

    The state homebuyer tax credit bill (A-1678) passed the Legislature on June 10, but Christie vetoed it on July 23.

    “The opportunity to kick start New Jersey’s economic recovery was knocking, but Governor Christie slammed the door in its face,” Assembly Budget Chairman Lou Greenwald (D-Camden), the bill’s prime sponsor, said Wednesday. “This tax credit would have immediately put people back to work, spurred economic activity for businesses and revived our housing market, but we now have a chance to fix this through the veto override.”

    The bill would establish a three-year, $100 million New Jersey Homebuyer Tax Credit Program under the New Jersey gross income tax for home purchases made within a year of the bill’s enactment. It passed 67-8 in the Assembly and 38-0 in the Senate.
    Two Assembly Democratic bills to attack unfunded state mandates that drive up property taxes will also be considered.

    “Unfunded mandates like these have helped shove New Jersey property taxes to unacceptable levels,” Assemblyman John McKeon (D-Essex), the sponsor, said. “With these changes, we will bring real savings to property taxpayers without spending a dime, simply by easing mandates that no longer serve a purpose or are simply too burdensome.”

  3. grim says:

    From CNN/Money:

    Highest property taxes in the country

    Suspicions confirmed: Homeowners in the Northeast pay the highest property taxes in the nation.

    New Jersey residents pay the highest annual tax bill of any state – a median $6,579 per year, according to the Tax Foundation, which calculated the tally using data the U.S. Census Bureau released on Tuesday.

    Connecticut comes in second place ($4,738), followed by New Hampshire ($4,636) and New York ($3,755).

    Of course, the reason for high taxes vary. You don’t want to feel too bad for New Hampshire, for example. They don’t pay income or sales tax.

  4. Confused In NJ says:

    Hard to find people in NJ paying below $6.5K, easy above $6.5K.

  5. 30 year realtor says:

    34% less cost or 40% worse condition for REO? These statistics amuse me. Currently have an REO in an excellent area of Old Tappan. Beside the 30+ year old roof, rotted framing and sheathing, antiquated floorplan and need for updating, it’s a great home! Million dollar plus neighborhood. The bank is arguing with me because I am basing the value on land sales.

  6. Poltroon says:

    30 year (5)-

    RealtyTrac just announced the shadow inventory of REO is up to a four-year supply. If the bank who owns your listing thinks it’s so precious, they should keep it, fix it and let an executive live in it.

    Not only are the banksters criminals, they are stupid. Yet, they own the gubmint and control everything.

    Some animals are more equal than others.

  7. Poltroon says:

    grim (2)-

    Great. Now we can pursue the micro-distortion of our state economy.

    Amazing that after two failed, massive giveaways on the federal level (Cash for Clunkers, Clunkers for Houses), the best our chimps in Trenton can do is come up with their own version of a guaranteed fail.

    Smell the oblivion. Embrace it. We’re going down hard.

  8. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    Proposed bill would allow borrowers to sell equity for lower mortgage payments

    Representative Gary Miller introduced a new bill today that he believes could keep housing affordable for low-income families. The Strengthening FHA Through Shared Equity Homeownership Act of 2010, also known as H.R. 6256, looks to establish a way for borrowers to sell their home’s equity in order to lower their mortgage payment.

    The bill would create a pilot program through the Federal Housing Administration that would allow borrowers to sell a portion of their home equity to an investor in exchange for partial ownership of the house — similar to owning shares of stock in a company.

    The investor would benefit from any price appreciation that may occur relative to the proportion of the investment. The investor is also affected by price depreciation with regard to their portion.

    Under the proposed bill, all investments go toward the principal loan amount and may not be used for downpayment or closing costs. The mortgagor must retain at least 60% equity share. Additionally, borrowers must comply with all FHA requirements for homeownership including mandatory downpayment requirements.

  9. grim says:

    Talk about redefining homeownership. What to do with all of those individual equity stakes, what to do!

    Wait! I’ve got it!

    Let’s combine them all together, into a single pool, where we can reduce the individual default risk! And then slice that pool up and sell it to investors!

    We’ll be rich!

  10. yo'me says:

    MONEY Magazine) — At the height of the housing boom, millions of Americans treated their houses like ATMs, pulling out money through “cash-out” refis. Today, with millions of mortgages underwater, money is flowing in the opposite direction.

    Want to refinance at today’s low rates? Well, lenders want you to have equity of at least 20%; if you don’t, you must add cash to make up the difference. No wonder “cash-in” refis accounted for 22% of all refinancing activity in the second quarter

  11. Poltroon says:

    Anybody want to buy my negative equity?

  12. yo'me says:

    #8 Who has equity in their homes? A person that bought in the last 5 years that put 20% is underwater.A person that bought in last 15 years is even,after bank required 20% equity.Who is left? A person that bought at a low price, home 20 years ago,sitting on a file of equity.Maybe,almost done paying the mortgage.Is he stupid to share his equity to an investor? Rep Miller either don’t know how to waste his time or this is the way our elected officials think.

  13. Shore Guy says:

    Foreclosures are old news. RE neaar NY is always in demand.

    For a little while
    Real Estate was down
    But you know this is a
    Blue-ribbon town
    And, all the RE agents
    Are heard to say

    We are just around the corner
    From the light of day
    We are just around the corner
    From the light of day

  14. Confused In NJ says:

    Gary Miller needs to be put in Prison.

  15. yo'me says:

    “It’s a seller’s market now,” says Bai Baosheng, 43, puffing a cigarette in his office in Baotou, China, where his company sells bags of powder containing a metallic element known as neodymium, vital in tiny magnets that direct the fins of bombs dropped by U.S. Air Force jets in Afghanistan.

    A generation after Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping made mastering neodymium and 16 other elements known as rare earths a priority, China dominates the market, with far-reaching effects ranging from global trade friction to U.S. job losses and threats to national security.

    The U.S. handed its main economic rival power to dictate access to these building blocks of modern weapons by ceding control of prices and supply, according to dozens of interviews with industry executives, congressional leaders and policy experts

  16. Poltroon says:

    yo (12)-

    This is the kind of stuff you get when TPTB haven’t the brains or the will to effect real solutions.

  17. Poltroon says:

    Someone willing to sell me a minority share of his home equity is no one in whom I’m willing to invest…unless I have a mechanism to foreclose on his interest and boot him out.

  18. Poltroon says:

    Learn to love the oblivion. So warm and inviting…

  19. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “The bill would create a pilot program through the Federal Housing Administration that would allow borrowers to sell a portion of their home equity to an investor in exchange for partial ownership of the house — similar to owning shares of stock in a company.”

    This guy should be put away. What investor would buy a portion of a crap box, which is underwater, in a declining market? Does this investor also buy a portion of the property taxes? The only entity that doubles/triples down in the fed. Oops, I found the investor.

    Go back three years, implement a gap insurance program.

  20. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    is the fed.

  21. Poltroon says:

    BC (19)-

    Sadly, you and I smell the same rat. And it will probably come in the form of “assistance to minority homeowners”. What other entity would buy into this Titanic of an idea?

    “Oops, I found the investor.”

  22. Poltroon says:

    Again, who wants to buy some of my negative equity? It will come back some day. I promise.

    I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today: a concept taught in America’s finest business schools.

  23. Essex says:

    *cha Ching*

  24. Poltroon says:

    Massive FHFA failure Jim Lockhart now on CNBC, talking about getting ready to blow a ton of Wilbur Ross’ money on Irish mortgages.

  25. Poltroon says:

    Now I understand why the Chinese execute gubmint officials who screw up.

    It’s to prevent them from doing it again.

  26. make money says:

    Did they pass the US Yuan bill in the house?
    Wanta are you ever wrong?When BC talked about protectionism 2 years ago I was like no way…who is this stupid?

  27. Fast Eddie says:

    About 15 percent — or one in every seven — homes sold in New Jersey during the second quarter were in some stage of the foreclosure process, RealtyTrac reported Wednesday.

    tick…. tick…. tick…. tick….

  28. grim says:

    Surprise!! Rally on!!

  29. Poltroon says:

    make (26)-

    Nihil novi sub sole.

    Think Smoot-Hawley & Depression 1.

  30. Fast Eddie says:

    Want to refinance at today’s low rates? Well, lenders want you to have equity of at least 20%; if you don’t, you must add cash to make up the difference.

    Sell the five LCD TVs you had to have in every room, the iShit, PSLs, Ellery’s American Girl collection, Graydon’s whale pen1s leather sports bag, reduce summer vacations to day trips to Keasnsburg and maybe you’ll come up with 20% before the short sale.

  31. Fast Eddie says:

    WASHINGTON – Battle-weary members of Congress are coming soon to neighborhoods near you to press for re-election, more eager to campaign before angry constituents than compromise in Washington on tax cuts, child nutrition or a federal budget.

    Majority Democrats facing tough re-election fights rebelled in both chambers Wednesday against their leaders’ decisions to call off controversial votes, pass a temporary bill to keep the government running and head home.

    “The Senate should be more concerned about doing what’s right for the country and less concerned about campaign season,” said Sen. Michael Bennet, D-Colo.

    I was watching this town hall type gathering the other night of a mix of democrats, republicans, independents, etc., and they asked an Obama supporter why she still strongly supports him. She said, “because he gave me hope and change.” I changed the channel and proceeded to watch two episodes of Sponge Bob.

  32. yo'me says:

    Prior Consensus Consensus Range Actual
    Real GDP – Q/Q change – SAAR 1.6 % 1.6 % 1.3 % to 1.7 % 1.7 %
    GDP price index – Q/Q change – SAAR 1.9 % 1.9 % 1.8 % to 2.0 % 1.9 %

    New Claims – Level 465 K 459 K 452 K to 465 K 453 K
    4-week Moving Average – Level 463.25 K 458 K

    Corporate profits
    After-tax Profits – Y/Y change 37.7 % 38.7 %

  33. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Make [26],

    Currency wars are heating up. Welcome to the new era; open disputes, trade wars, intervention, protectionism. Each country will desperatley try to defend their own turf. Everything that dies, someday comes back.

    Fiat currencies will circle the toilet.

  34. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [26] make

    We discussed protectionism here over the past two years, but I admit that out and out trade walls were as unlikely as secession.

    As I recall, I got taken to task by the board libs for suggesting that Obama would not be able to make HCR, Cap and trade, or other econ. programs work without protectionism. I also speculated about how it could be implemented, including stealth protectionist measures.

    Besides, it is a moot point. Senate won’t advance a bill because the Dems don’t want to put Obama in the position of having to veto it.

  35. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [33] Wanta

    Judging by shiny this morning, we should change your handle to Nostradamus.

  36. Poltroon says:

    Last-day-of-the-quarter ramp in equities is on.

    Gotta stop those redemptions at all costs.

  37. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Nom [35],

    Nah. Many saw the same.

  38. Mr Wantanapolous says:


    There will be an extreme pullback at some point, impossible to say when. It may wait until the Dec option expiration. I would not be surprised if the 1,500 calls come into play.

  39. Poltroon says:

    This is the Alice in Wonderland sham that passes for the US economy now:

    “Our responsibility is to protect the taxpayers’ investment,” said Allison, the assistant Treasury secretary for financial stability. “Government involvement in the day-to-day management of a company might actually reduce the value of these investments, impede the ability of the companies to return fully to being privately owned, and frustrate attainment of our broader economic policy goals.”

    With the benefit of hindsight and a little rephrasing, the government’s policy is clearer now: We have to let these bailed- out banks keep screwing the American people, in order to keep the American people from getting screwed on their investments in these bailed-out banks.

    If this helps preserve the value of Cerberus Capital Management’s 14.9 percent stake in Ally, oh well. Hold your nose, we’re told, because it’s for the greater good. And never mind that this private-equity firm’s chairman happens to be a former Treasury secretary, John Snow. Just optics, you know.”

  40. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    POMO day today. nice to see the ramp right on schedule. We still got the October 2nd and October 9th POMO days. So the full market pump is in effect until the elections.

  41. Poltroon says:

    BC, I still think the pullback comes when equities crash, and margin calls force across-the-board selling, regardless of asset quality.

  42. scribe says:


    My question is: When fiat currencies circle the drain, how do we get back to a standard backed by gold or silver?

    I haven’t seen anyone address that question in print.

    Worldwide revamping?

  43. Unexpected HEHEHE says:


    I also believe that is exactly what will happen. Gold and Silver will continue to trend higher long-term but they’ll suffer a major correction when TSHTF simply because there’s so many levered players currently pushing them up. Right now they have every appearance of a bubble. When exactly TSHTF could be next week, next month, six months etc, but with so many unrecognized losses and a dead economy sooner or later this artificial “recovery” is going to pop and there’s going to be forced selling across the board.

  44. make money says:

    BC, I still think the pullback comes when equities crash, and margin calls force across-the-board selling, regardless of asset quality.


    Does it really matter when and how it comes.
    It’s just a buying opportunity for them bugs who used to be named after a famous dolphin.

  45. chicagofinance says:

    35.Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    September 30, 2010 at 9:19 am
    [33] Wanta
    Judging by shiny this morning, we should change your handle to Nostradamus.

    Nom: no…these guys were onto the trade in 1983….

  46. chicagofinance says:

    HEHEHE…this opinion is probably the right call…..every idiot in the world is queing up…….big BUT……..the Chinese love the shite, so that is a lot of potential rice hitting the fan the could overwhelm other factors…..

    44.Unexpected HEHEHE says:
    September 30, 2010 at 10:17 am

    I also believe that is exactly what will happen. Gold and Silver will continue to trend higher long-term but they’ll suffer a major correction when TSHTF simply because there’s so many levered players currently pushing them up. Right now they have every appearance of a bubble. When exactly TSHTF could be next week, next month, six months etc, but with so many unrecognized losses and a dead economy sooner or later this artificial “recovery” is going to pop and there’s going to be forced selling across the board.

  47. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    The Chinese love everything.

  48. Mr Hyde says:


    MMMMMM Melamine milk and cardboard buns!!

  49. relo says:

    OT: And here I thought it was because he was a pompous, narcissistic arse (like many athletes across the spectrum).

  50. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Granted, gold is overbought in the short term. Pullbacks, like they have occured for the past 10 years, will continue. That said, less than 1% of the world’s investments are in gold/gold related entities. Can you imagine what will happen when this grows to 2-3%? By the way, in 1980, 30% of the world’s investments were in gold.

    When the correction hits, every breathing idiot should close their eyes and buy. It’s going much, much higher.

  51. Unexpected HEHEHE says:


    No arguments here.

  52. dan says:

    Why do I have the feeling that Clot is going to write that bullets will be the next currency?

  53. Anon E. Moose says:

    Great discussion yesterday.

    Hyde [‘182];

    I see in that order a three year gap from when deadbeat was purportedly served with papers to the date of the order. You want me to believe he’s been diligently paying all that time? I’m not going to say that sewer service never happens, because if it didn’t no one would know what I meant by sewer service. But that order put the whole case back to square one, and probably gave the deadbeat at least another 12-18 months in the house payment-free. 5+ yrs free rent on what is surely better living conditions than my current rental…where do I sign up?

    You want to hold everybody to the letter of the law? That document wasn’t signed, just rubber stamped (literally); How do I know that Frederic B Thygart is duly authorized to issue such an order? Shouldn’t he have to prove his credentials? And on, and on, and on.

    Pol [‘186]

    What’s the deadbeat borrowers beef with a fraudulent conveyance of the note? The point is that he owes money to someone. Let the court impound the money from liquidation of the house until good title is proved up. In the mean time get the house back on the market in the hands of a viable owner at a real price. All these realtwhores p1ssing and moaning about no activity – its because buying a house at current prices is a bad deal. Make it a good deal, and people will come. 6% of a 1995 price is better than 0% of a 2005 price.

    The court or legislature can protect the deadbeat against multiple claims on the same note, but it shouldn’t in the process protect him for ALL claims on the note.

  54. Juice Box says:

    re #47 – Don’t tell it you think mom and pop selling their jewelry to cash for gold pawn shops and a couple of people buying shares of paper gold is going to move the gold prices up, and margin calls will force it to go down. Are you assuming that the large gold positions and large gold purchases are actually in the private sector and they will have to de-leverage those positions due to an equity bust?

    Gold is heading for a 10th consecutive annual advance, the longest winning streak since at least 1920. Central banks globally have been the biggest buyers adding gold to their reserves continually. Worldwide combined central bank holdings rose in every quarter since the second quarter of last year.

    Here is the data.

    No one wants to call attention to the fact that the central banksters themselves are losing faith in fiat money..

  55. make money says:

    When the correction hits, every breathing idiot should close their eyes and buy. It’s going much, much higher.


    Can dolphins and bugs be idiots too. Please…

  56. Mr Hyde says:


    You are making the debate personal when its shouldn’t be. Do i want a free house? Of course!!!! But your stance is still that banks should be held to a lower standard then the home owner. If you look into how many of the mortgages were transferred, they have most likely become UNSECURED NOTES due to the MERS process. On top of that there is speculation that the scuritization process itself may have legally separate the note from the title. Oh and lets not forget that there are a number of documented cases of multiple banks foreclosing on the same home.

    By all means foreclose on someone if they arent paying the note, ASSUMING YOU LEGALLY OWN THE NOTE! There have already been dozens of court cases to illustrate that banks often cannot prove that they legally hold the note and are using fraudulent practices to produce the required documentation.

    Someone also suggested in yesterdays discussion that this was just a sensationalized case of the mess in Florida. That is not the case. these issues have been documented from Massachusetts to California.

    I once again ask you, are you suggesting we allow banks to adhere to one set of laws while we insist that citizens adhere to another? Citizens are doing nothing illegal by not paying their house note, there are contractual stipulations to cover that. What the banks are doing is patently illegal.

    If you want to play this game then go buy a house ASAP and get a loan with the dirtiest, slimiest mortgage broker you can find. Wait about 6 months then hire a RE attorney to research who currently holds the note. If your servicer does note legally hold the note at that point stop paying and put the money in escrow. Have your attorney send a letter to the servicer stating the issue and demanding they prove they title was properly transferred to them and they legally hold the note.

    This is a case of 2 wrongs do not make a right. Allowing the banks to continue their lawless behavior because otherwise they might have to face the consequences of their original illegal/fraudulent behavior doesnt fix the problem. The only real fix is to nuke everyone involved, hold all of them to the letter of the law and then let the chips fall where they may. If the homeowner lied on their mortgage application ( probably the large majority) then pursue them as well.

    As i said yesterday. I dont expect it to happen as it would implode the US financial market overnight. But advocating anything but the full application of existing law is advocating for continued lawlessness. Welcome to the new banana republic.

    Massachusetts residents Charlie and Maria Cardoso, who claimed they bought their second home in Spring Hill, Fla., with cash, sued Bank of America in the District of Massachusetts on Jan. 20 based on actions the bank took in the foreclosure attempt.

    The legal claims in the case include trespass, conversion, negligence, negligent infliction of emotional distress, intentional infliction of emotional distress, interference with contractual relations, defamation and libel.

    The Cardosos are seeking unspecified damages, plus punitive and/or multiple damages, and attorney fees and costs.

    According to the complaint, the New Bedford, Mass., couple had a tenant living in the Florida home when workers from Bank of America showed up to foreclose on the home in July.

    The lawsuit claims that Charlie Cardoso had telephone conversations in July with one of the workers and a Bank of America realtor who was listing the home to explain that he owned the home without a mortgage.

  57. Pat says:

    Couple of threads ago: wife now ineligible for your employer-sponsored group health plan. Go back and check the new rates for all tiers (Family, Employee plus children, Couple, Single, etc.) on both plans. With the carveout spouse with available coverage, you should automatically be tiered down from family to ee+child(ren) for your payroll deduction – like all other single parents. The hit shouldn’t be as bad as you are assuming. If no ee+child tier existed before, your plan may be adding it now.

    In addition, her employer might “subsidize” employee-only level coverage. But check anyway to be sure she should not be the one covering the entire family or just the kids. If her coverage stinks in her employer plan (higher deductible/higher copay), you may still make out by going to her plan’s coverage based on your typical claims. Don’t pay on your plan for premo coverage if you don’t use it. You can always switch back at the next open enrollment.

  58. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose 54

    I see in that order a three year gap from when deadbeat was purportedly served with papers to the date of the order. You want me to believe he’s been diligently paying all that time? I’m not going to say that sewer service never happens, because if it didn’t no one would know what I meant by sewer service. But that order put the whole case back to square one, and probably gave the deadbeat at least another 12-18 months in the house payment-free. 5+ yrs free rent on what is surely better living conditions than my current rental…where do I sign up?

    So what? Who Cares? The bank agreed to make the loan and if it failed to properly account for associated risks then the bank deserves everything it gets. Oh but you say the current holder of the note (who ever that may be, as its unlikely to be the originator) just bought the note and didnt issue it? Well then they deserve everything they get as well for not doing proper risk assessment before purchasing the loan?

    There are really only 3 outcomes here. The banks didn’t do proper risk assessment, or the loans were fraudulently represented when they were sold/securitized and the banks are now liable for buying back the loans at face value, or a combination of the 2. Regardless of which of these is the core problem the banks should be forced to eat all of it, as it is of their own making.

  59. Amazing to hear those numbers. We knew things were bad, but that just seems downright despairing.

  60. Poltroon says:

    chi (46)-

    I’m willing to wager $1 that you also own a DVD copy of The Krays.

  61. Poltroon says:

    dan (53)-

    I’m trying to corner the world market on .223 and 12-gauge shells. Saying such a thing would be talking my own book.

  62. Poltroon says:

    Maybe I should change my handle to Lamar.

  63. yo'me says:

    Gold is ready-made to be a retail sales item, and with that comes all manner of unscrupulous activity. Vigilant investors can protect themselves, but do not underestimate the very real price of being taken to the cleaners by a gold scam if you don’t do your homework.

    High ownership and storage costs
    Maybe through some creative accounting or selective amnesia at tax time you can mitigate the tax burden of gold. But one expense you can’t as easily avoid is the high ownership cost of gold. After all, it’s not like you mined it yourself — and all those middlemen between the ore and you want to get paid.

    The first is that old tightwad Uncle Sam again. Even if you can avoid him going on the capital gains front, he gets you coming into gold via sales tax on most jewelry and coins. And then there are the high transaction costs and commissions that gold can carry. Anyone who has bought jewelry knows significant markups are part of the precious metals trade, and that’s the same for investment gold as it is for engagement rings. The bottom line is that some of your initial buy-in goes towards the business of gold and you’ll never get it back, not unlike realtor fees or broker fees.

    And then there’s the additional cost of storing your gold. You have to pay a fee for a safe deposit box, and if you have a lot of gold, that can run you a few hundred bucks a year for a good-sized box. Of course if you’re afraid of that Order 6102 scam pulled by FDR you likely have your gold at home in a safe – so that’s a one-shot deal. But are you really foolish enough to distrust the government but trust your gold stash to be safe without insurance?

    The presumed “safety” of gold is good on paper, but obtaining the actual metal and keeping it safely stored is a costly endeavor.

    Yes, gold can lose value
    Proponents of gold love to claim that gold has never been worthless like Lehman Bros. or GM. And while this is true on its face, it is actually a half-truth. While gold may never become worthless, it is foolish to think it will never lose value.

    Consider that after reaching a record high of $850 per ounce in early 1980, gold plummeted 40% in two months. The average price for gold in 1981 fell to a mere $460 an ounce — and continued nearly unabated until bottoming with an average price of around $280 in 2000. For those folks in their 40s and 50s who bought gold at that 1980 high, it took them 28 years to reclaim the $850 level. That’s hardly much of a retirement plan, unless they lived to be 80 or 90 and just cashed out recently.

    Gold is an investment, period. And no matter how gold bugs spin the metal as a hedge against inflation and a sure thing that will only go up, gold can lose its value — sometimes in a hurry, as in the early 1980s

  64. Mr Hyde says:

    Check this out

    REFERRAL OF CHASE HOME MORTGAGE AND MORTGAGE ELECTRONIC REGISTRATION SYSTEMS, INC. TO FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Secretary Brunner, in two letters dated Aug. 11, 2010 and Sept. 1, 2010, referred matters of alleged notary abuse in thousands of home mortgage foreclosures by Chase Home Mortgage and the Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems, Inc. to U.S. District Attorney Steven Dettelbach in Cleveland

    This case implicates MERS as well! If MERS goes down then this could easily nuke the mortgage market. Fire it up!!!!

  65. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    Meredith Whitney: Year-End Bonuses Will “Dramatically Disappoint”

  66. Poltroon says:

    Burn the mf’er down. The core of the whole mess is Ponzi, merged to fraud.

    Set the meter back to 0, and return to the 16th century. We deserve no better.

  67. Mr Hyde says:

    Apparently , over half of all new residential mortgage loans in the U.S. are registered with MERS.

  68. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Yome [64],

    Grammar school stuff.

    No mention of the 340 ton gold swap, executed by the BIS, to bail out the LBMA?

  69. chicagofinance says:

    Real estate mogul’s Westchester home targeted with Molotov c-cktail

    Cops are looking for a man who hurled a Molotov c-cktail into the home of a prominent real estate mogul.

    Jonathan Resnick, president of Jack Resnick & Sons, doused the fire at his Rye home with a fire extinguisher on Wednesday before police were called, The Journal News of Westchester reported today.

    The intruder walked onto the property after climbing over a wall along a nearby church, before throwing the liter-sized bottle into the home at about 12:15 a.m., Rye police said.

    Resnick, his wife Joelle, and their 3-year-old son were treated for smoke inhalation, but refused to be taken to the hospital, the newspaper reported.

    Cops said Resnick’s wife heard a loud crashing sound and found their living room on fire when they went to investigate where the noise had come from, the newspaper reported.

    Police recovered a bottle of flammable liquid, believed to be grain alcohol, on a side porch.

    No arrests have been made.

    With AP

  70. Libtard says:

    ChiFi: Last night you said that at Whole Foods, “you can literally return used toilet paper without a receipt for store credit…..”

    Is that why it’s called 7th Generation?

  71. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde [57];

    You’ve very wrong about one thing: it is VERY personal. Its personal because that deadbeat is in MY house. I foresaw what he couldn’t. Now that the whole world sees it too. But, he’s still in my house because the process server lives in Jacsonville but the notary lives in Tampa. Who gives a rat’s a$$? He had enough notice to get a lawyer and show up for court, right?

    In the mean time I’ve had to deal for five years with a menopause-addled landlady who thinks “heat included” means “heat optional”; trips to Landlord/Tenant court; calling the cops because she (not her teenage kids) plays polka music on 11.

    That deadbeat is in my house because I could have paid $400k with 20% down for it 5 years ago, when on equal footing he couldn’t have qualified for $300k. But him and his Neg-Am, 0% Down, NINJA loan bid it up to $600k.

    I have one thing to say to all the deadbeats. GET THE FCK OUT OF MY HOUSE.

    You want to ding the banks? Fine. In fact, fine them. Fine them $5,000. Fine them $10,000 or $25,000. But there is a far greater social cost to throwing out the case on heartstrings and technicalities.

  72. Libtard says:

    The banks were the experts. They offered mortgages to people who could not afford them. They did not due their due diligence when it came to risk. The squatter wins. Sucks, doesn’t it? You should have bought a home. Nothing personal.

  73. Sterling Grey Matters says:

    (8) – An amendment to the bill would give authority to the FHA to establish federal casinos that allow the homeowner to use roof tiles and shingles as chips at table games. A new regulatory office would be created to oversee the management of the casino and peg the value of building materials to an international standard based on IMF Special Drawing Rights. The economic benefits are broad based and far ranging – increased demand for home security, implied valuation for existing housing stock, a new “deconstruction” trade industry. There is the potential for eliminating housing stock in blighted areas while providing casino jobs to the unemployed as well as providing entertainment to thousands of “house rich” gamblers.

  74. Libtard says:

    Or…screw your landlord.

  75. Al Gore says:



    “My question is: When fiat currencies circle the drain, how do we get back to a standard backed by gold or silver? ”

    Thats when things will get real interesting and potentially violent. The easy way to do it is to revalue gold to something like $7500 or 10k per ounce then fire up a new currency. The IMF and their globalist friends have a different idea. They plan to introduce SDRs or some other form of global fiat money. They tried this in the late 60’s and it failed miserably. It will fail again.

  76. Libtard says:

    Many I love them realtors:

    “I am pleased to present this eclectic mix of homes for your review. We have not had such a terrific selection for some time, and with interest rates being at tempting lows, your buying power has rarely been better! You can also access everything on the market from my website. Give me a call or send me an email to set up an appointment to see your favorites.”

  77. Mr Hyde says:


    I feel your pain, but the societal cost is already a foregone conclusion, the only question at this point is how much more do we exacerbate the pain. The banks and the FED are the ones responsable for your situation. If you want anyone’s blood it should be theirs.

  78. Al Gore says:


    “When the correction hits, every breathing idiot should close their eyes and buy. It’s going much, much higher.”

    Ill be buying with both hands.

  79. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [53] dan

    that reminds me, I did want to add to my stockpile.

  80. Poltroon says:

    chi (70)-

    What a waste of perfectly good grain alcohol.

  81. Poltroon says:

    moose (72)-

    Why are you madder at the guy in “your house” than you are at the banks who abetted the fraud, bought your gubmint lock-stock-barrel, then called in their markers and had the gubmint (essentially, you) bail out their insolvent asses with a bunch of free fiat paper?

    The guy in your house will eventually be gone. The market will eventually stabilize.

    The banks? Their shenanigans are going to wreck the entire planet and enslave at least the next two US generations to backbreaking debt (unless we just default in the interim). The 2008 crash was just a prelude to the big event.

  82. Poltroon says:

    lib (77)-

    Is that from the skank ho also known as Sue Adler?

  83. DL says:

    Dumb question: If 56k foreclosures are now on hold because no one knows who owns the note, and thousands of repossessions in danger of being challenged for the same reason, why would there be any confidence in purchasing a house from a “homeowner” who also has no idea who owns his note. Is the entire housing market about to freeze?

  84. homeboken says:

    Quick update on the check card fraud that my wife went through a few weeks back.

    All money has been returned to the account, but interesting side-story. Bank asked for a police report, we luckily have a friend that is a detective at the local PD. He takes the report and begins following up with the retailers and the bank. Retailers (all 3 of them) seem to not care in the slightest. There is video footage of the fraudulent transactions at 2 of the 3, yet retail manager states that they will not release video surveillance without a subpeona. Detective explains that victim (wife) has gotten fully reimbursed and now the Retailer has become the victim. Manager’s response – That is the corporate policy.
    I am not surprised, but this is yet another example of how we all end up paying for crimes.

  85. spyderjacks says:

    So if shiney storage can be prohibitive, and I need to keep a certificate, what are the chances that the issuer of the certificate is not a relative of Bernie Madoff? Really! What are the chances that the gold industry got the lions share of reputable dealers. If you think “produce the note” was entertaining, image what “redeem my certificate for shiney” is going to be like.

    Anyway, IF the world currencies hit the fan and the global economy collapses, I think you need shiney in the hand, to have any benefit from that “deversify with gold” strategy. But if I went out and bought some gas for my SUV, with the shiney, is it going to be 1, 2 or 10 folks following me home to ‘redistribute’ my shiney stash.

    I don’t know how we regain confidence in our financial institutions. Nobody has a vision out, except for the shallow sound-bites of the mob mentality. Whatever. I’m bored. Maybe I should go the extra 10$/month and get back ShowTime. I like Dexter. He cleans up his own mess.

  86. Mr Hyde says:


    Is the entire housing market about to freeze?

    Bingo! Unless the Pols and the banks can squash this little inconvenience in short order with the courts help ,then any sane person would refuse to buy a house with a questionable note. The home you “buy” may not belong to you since you just paid someone who had no claim to the title anyway. You could end up out the money and no house to show for it.

  87. Mr Hyde says:

    Gold certificate? HAHAHAHA if its paper its worthless. There was a story recently that it took 2 years and multiple lawsuits for a small invetsor to actually get COMEX to deliver physical gold.

  88. hughesrep says:


    Retailers lose 3X money to employee theft or operational error than they due to regular theft. Most retail “loss prevention” people focus primarily in house, and safety. They could care less about shoplifters, CC fraud, etc. They have excellent video systems, but mostly they just use them to check out hot women.

  89. homeboken says:

    Attempted coup in Ecuador?

  90. Sterling Grey Matters says:

    86 – The scenario you suggest, where bandits follow you home from the gas station – after you pay in gold – brings me to ask you this question. Who’s refining the oil and delivering it to the gas station? In a world where we are transacting in metal coin and paper is worthless doesn’t major commerce cease to exist. Where are we driving the SUV to and from? The Short Hills Mall? Meadowlands Stadium? The Cabella’s warehouse sale?
    If I am sitting in that SUV with you, riding shotgun, I will have to be loaded for bear and fending off the marauders as we enter our compound, ala Mad Max. And that compound better have the capacity to be self sufficient – energy, food, water, medical – for an extended period of time, until we can make contact with the next clan who has agreed to trade with us. At that point the physical gold will come in handy. But it is a long way down from the present day trade of gold on the commodities, futures, physical, equity or even retail markets to the use of gold in mundane commerce. Gold may be a relatively “stable” store of value but you’ll have to first survive a nightmare dislocation of society before its use in daily consumer transactions. I’m not offering advice about whether or not to invest in gold but I am suggesting that there may be a point along the timeline where a pound of butter or a pound of wheat is more valuable than a pound of gold.

  91. dim says:

    87: Isn’t that the job of the buyer’s lawyer, to make sure the title is cleanly transferred? If the note is not necessary for the clean transfer of the title, does it matter?

  92. Confused In NJ says:

    It’s about time:

    WASHINGTON – Legislation to turn down the volume on those loud TV commercials that send couch potatoes diving for their remote controls looks like it’ll soon become law.

    The Senate unanimously passed a bill late Wednesday to require television stations and cable companies to keep commercials at the same volume as the programs they interrupt.

    The House has passed similar legislation. Before it can become law, minor differences between the two versions have to be worked out when Congress returns to Washington after the Nov. 2 election.

  93. Fabius Maximus says:

    Nice to see that there are a few Republicans left that are still awake at the wheel.

  94. Mr Wantanapolous says:


    FX desks don’t trade butter and/or wheat.

    Consumer transactions? Simple solution; Stroke a key, you can covert gold into any paper you desire.

  95. Sterling Grey Matters says:

    95 – I’m not sure that you’re getting my point (not your fault – I need to clarify). I’ll pose this question in response, which I think cuts to the chase – Will we ever live in a world where our choice at checkout is cash, credit or gold?

  96. chicagofinance says:

    76.Libtard says:
    September 30, 2010 at 1:07 pm
    Or…screw your landlord.

  97. NJGator says:

    So yesterday I was out walking the dog (you’re welcome, Stu) and discovered that a homeless person had set up camp in the little grassy triangle adjacent to our train station parking lot. A real serious setup with lots of tarps, cardboard boxes and shopping carts. Looks like he/she was preparing to stay a while. I picked up the phone and called the Montclair PD to report it. Today Stu includes this info in one of his rants on Baristanet and here’s the response he got from one of our council members:


    The homeless person from Crane Park was moved to Erie Park so that she wouldn’t be present during this past week’s Crane Festival.

    If we can’t solve the problem, we move it.”

    Prestigious town, my a*s. But what should I expect for the almost 15k/year we pay in taxes, right?

  98. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [96] grey

    We are already there in a very miniscule way; there are individuals that transact in gold, but I am sure they would not fill a h.s. gym.

    From my perspective, I owned GLD as a hedge, with the intention of jettisoning it at an apex. I have no intention of holding any gold in a SHTF scenario except for old jewelry for barter, and even there, I don’t have a lot. Ideally, I would cash out of hedges, such as gold, near a top while there is a frenzy but before the cracks in the dyke start spewing, and quickly convert the fiat paper to hard assets (food, fuel, booze, supplies, ammo). If I have indebted real property, I can save fiat paper to cover PITI (in the event that TSHTF, the credit cards won’t see Dime One but one still has to protect the homestead).

    Bottom line: I agree with your assessment and would try to get out of holding all but a small amount of physical prior to any collapse, perhaps in the throes of a currency crisis.

    Also, in a truly ugly armageddon scenario such as you describe, it won’t matter if it is gold, gas, grass, or ammo. You will be at risk. Gold is just easier to transport.

  99. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [98] gator

    “if we can’t solve the problem, we move it.”

    Did that tool really say that?

  100. Mr Wantanapolous says:


    Like I said, if one needs a particular currency, all they have to do is stroke a key.

    Would the clerk accept a stock, bond certificate or foreign currency at check out?

  101. NJGator says:

    100 Nom – Yes that was actually said. But the person who said it wasn’t the tool. He was p*ssed about how it was handled. He was being sarcastic. Unfortunately the rest of the bozos running the town thought it was a perfectly acceptable way of solving the problem.

  102. Libtard says:


    …worse. Carol Tangorra.

  103. Mr Hyde says:

    Well this is inconvenient

    On August 19, just nine days after the U.S. central bank surprised financial markets by deciding to buy more bonds to support a flagging economy, former Fed governor Larry Meyer sent a note to clients of his consulting firm with a breakdown of the policy-setting meeting.

  104. homeboken says:

    104 Hyde – ZeroHedge went bonkers with that news. Just out and out fraud committed by the Fed. Brutal world that we live in

  105. Mr Hyde says:


    Of course there wont be any repercussions such as criminal charges and claw backs of any profits made on trading the information.

  106. homeboken says:

    It is pretty appalling how out in the open the illegal exchange of inside information has become. I wish ZH would post the minutes on their web-site. That would proove to me that the story is true

  107. Al Gore says:



    The fraud is all out in the open now but no one does a thing. Im also hearing the fat man is in bed with George Norcross.

  108. Poltroon says:

    gator (98)-

    Wait ’til Montklair becomes the sister city of Santa Monica. Wonder how much loot your town will throw away on that useless affiliation.

  109. Poltroon says:

    lib (103)-

    Carol Tangorra? Is this a real person, or a p0rn actress?

  110. Sterling Grey Matters says:

    101 – How does one transmit physical gold over a network?

    I was responding to another post (and frankly went a little overboard, but I need an occasional creative outlet). In that situation someone is buying gas with physical gold. I was suggesting that a world in which gold is a point-of-sale substitute for credit or cash will be a very dangerous and dislocated one (which I believe agrees with poster’s POV). At that moment on the timeline where I’m buying goods and services with gold (and being followed “home” by 1, 2 or 10 thieves), the FX markets or even supermarkets won’t be functioning normally and that a pound of wheat would have greater “value” than gold.

    Modern global economies need currency and credit to function properly but they also need stability. The price of gold is rising in the face economic uncertainty stemming from… well you name it, Dollar weakness, Euro banking concerns, foreign central bank demand, etf demand, etf short-selling, oil weakness, hedges against inflation or deflation or hyperinflation, and political instability both home and abroad.

    Gold may be an excellent investment right now or perhaps for all time. You can decide that. And having physical gold makes sense if you don’t believe that the traders have the actual commodity for on-demand delivery.

    So, I’m again merely suggesting that in a world where I’m now using gold to buy gas (oil/ethanol distillation implies some level of societal stability) we’ve all come a long way over the mountain and at some point through this trying time I had to face the reality that a pound of butter is right now worth more to me than a pound of gold.

  111. Poltroon says:

    Walk into a Porsche or Rolls dealership with gold. I guarantee you’ll walk out with a car.

  112. Poltroon says:

    hyde (104)-

    Hell, Bill Gross practically admitted last week that the Fed lets him frontrun them.

  113. Al Gore says:


    When Argentina collapsed the people started using dollars, euros, and gold/silver. I suspect some along the Northern border will start using Canadian dollars. The problem in the US is that the vast majority of people no nothing about other currencies. Heck most people dont use cash.

    I am reasonably confident that a new currency will be waiting in the wings. In 1913 sovereignty was surrendered to the interantional bankers at the FE via the Federal Reserve Act. If the next act surrenders financial sovereignty to the BIS/IMF/World Bank and the cronies at the UN there is going to be open conflict in the streets. I have no doubt about this.

  114. Mr Hyde says:


    From ZH as well

    Mexican Central Bank Takes FX Warfare Into The 21st Century: Writes $600 Million Worth Of Dollar Options

    That should end well. It looks like Mexico may soon be for sale when the options get called.

  115. Sterling Grey Matters says:

    112 – Okay! Do I use my scale or theirs?

    Yes, fine. Very good choice – the 2010 Phantom. That will be 292 ounces, sir.
    Do we have a dressing room? Ah yes. To remove your money belt.

    Yes, we do know of a gas station that takes gold but unfortunately they can’t make change. But that’s no problem for you, sir. You are a very generous tipper.

  116. Anon E. Moose says:

    Pol [82];

    I’ve got plenty of anger to go around. And it’s not so much for the bankers, had they been made to take their medicine.

    And you want to talk about saddle the next two generations with backbreaking debt? What about Ethel & Sid, kicking back on the Gold Coast with the proceed of their house sale. They bought it for 2.5x Sid’s salary, and sold it for 10x two adults’ salary – roughly 8-fold increase over inflation. Meanwhile they are sucking down oxygen paid for with my medicaid taxes, feeding my social security taxes into the slot machines at the Hard Rock, and harassing the waitress about the senior citizen early bird discount because they’re ‘on a fixed income’ [unsaid: of $20,000 a month]. That’s the type of person I want 10 minutes alone in a room with.

  117. homeboken says:

    Hyde – Sold 600million? Who is the counter-party?

  118. Mr Hyde says:

    Boken 119

    Uknown at this time.

  119. Mr Hyde says:

    You have to image it wouldn’t be very difficult for a very large bank with lines to a central bank, to do to Mexico what GS did to AIG.

  120. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [111] grey

    I think you answered your own question. In a world that still has functioning refineries and distribution networks, there is likely still a functioning financial system so you won’t need to use gold to buy gas. Your gold offsets your card balance.

    But if you were to pay in Maple Leafs, I am willing to bet you would get a much better price than the guy who hands over his Exxon card.

  121. Al Gore says:



    I loved that rant. Dont worry, Obamacare will avenge their wrong doings.

  122. spyderjacks says:

    111: I agree that 1 lb food may be more valuable than 1 lb gold, in the bad times. I just think it’s a joke that the ‘gold standard’ as a currency, is right along side of “Gold investing” as an alternative to stocks and bonds – and both are an ongoing theme, along with the stockpiling of guns and ammo or alighting to some other land where the taxes are low, government invisible and no high fructose food products on the shelves.

    Maybe I’ll kick myself for missing out on the next ‘fast buck, sure thing’ investment. But losses are real. So I’ll just sit on my cash and hope the banks don’t collapse. It’s not like any of us can influence that situation. And if everything goes to crap, then I’ve got a house designed before electricity and plumbing, so I think I’ll be just fine.

    I’m thinking all the fear-mongering and positioning is simply because most folks are sitting on their cash, whatever the size of the pile, and the thieves that got us once… are finding it real hard to get us again. They need some more schemes because the other ones have dried up. I don’t have a problem with that. You all keep the ‘shiney’. I’ll keep my cash and sit this one out.

  123. Poltroon says:

    moose (118)-

    I think that you need to rethink who your friends and enemies are.

    Ethel and Sid played the game as it was laid out by the corrupt gubmint and their bankster benefactors. Should they have left money on the table? What amount of gain or profit is obscene, and exactly who should decide?

    Ethel and Sid’s gain was simply a function of timing and good fortune.

    The individual American is our gubmint’s enemy #1. It behooves us never to forget that.

  124. Essex says:

    118. I am not sure the banks get it yet. Try working with one on the simplest transaction and find out. They are still inflexible.

  125. Poltroon says:

    sx (126)-

    The banks will get it when their branches are on fire and the hordes have entered the vaults.

  126. grim says:

    91 – Spot on, like some sort of civilized armageddon where the rule of law still applies.

    I’ve said it before, why buy a compound now when I can just kill you and take yours later?

    Oh, and I’m going to take your gold too.

    Savers get screwed in armageddon.

  127. Poltroon says:

    Holy shit.

    ZH- “Bloomberg has just released something which if true, will wipe out every last ounce of credibility left in the market. As readers will recall, the initial scapegoat that CNBC and everyone else, who has no clue what really happens in the market decided to pin the flash crash on, was small Kansas-based trading firm Waddell & Reed, which traded a few extra contracts of E-Mini futures in the hours preceding the flash crash. Well, ladies and gentlemen, if this advance glance into what the SEC is about to disclose in its flash crash report is indeed valid, then the entire flash crash is about to be blamed on Waddell and Reed once again, with no mention of High Frequency Trading, or any of the other real culprits for the drop which wiped out $1 trillion in market cap, and the furthermore the report will have no policy recommendations. This is so insulting to the general intelligence of the average American investor who has by now seen the destructive influence of HFT in action so many times, that it will wipe out the last remaining shards of credibility left in US stocks. Will Mary Schapiro next blame every single mini flash crash which we have seen on almost daily basis over the past month on Waddell and Reed as well? Or is that reserved for E-Trade retail accounts? We will not pass judgment until we see the final report, but if true, this is immediate grounds for termination of the SEC head, and will require that everyone pull their money from the market asap, as it will definitely confirm that even our regulators have no clue just how broken the market truly is. It will also confirm that every single SEC staffer has been bribed, bought and corrupted beyond repair by the HFT lobby.”

    Link to the Bloomberg article:

  128. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “I just think it’s a joke that the ‘gold standard’ as a currency, is right along side of “Gold investing” as an alternative to stocks and bonds”


    “Maybe I’ll kick myself for missing out on the next ‘fast buck, sure thing’ investment”

    That depends on one’s defintion of fast. The trend has been in play for 10 years. It actually has been a slow grind up.

    If you take a look at the real cost of inflation, approx 5-7% (Retail rate) the cost of money is a negative 5-7%. Who’s the thieves?

    “So I’ll just sit on my cash and hope the banks don’t collapse”

    Delay and pray is our current strategy. Comforting?

  129. Sterling Grey Matters says:

    122 – Thank you Nom.

    Perhaps the concept that the value of a pound of butter could ever equal the value of a pound of gold is too far reaching even in extreme circumstances. But I cannot foresee a “normal” scenario wherein 300 million Americans will be buying all their goods and services with gold.

    More importantly, I do not in any manner wish to disparage the well-established voices on this board. I look upon the knowledge and opinions expressed by the posters on this board as an invaluable resource and I relish in the discourse. Thank you all.

    Sorry, to beat the horse beyond all recognition. I should go clean my nose.

  130. Poltroon says:

    spyder is sending his kids to community college along with Sastry’s.

  131. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Clot [133],

    I certainly understand why some call it a bubble. What happens when the gold bar gets stuck in the machine?

  132. Al Gore says:

    I like the other vending machines that dispense coins. I really like the credit card option. Reward points galore! I wonder what they are charging.

  133. Poltroon says:

    BC (134)-

    If CBS could bring back Hawaii 5-o, they can bring back the Dukes of Hazzard. This time around, the boys can knock off gold vending machines.

    “What happens when the gold bar gets stuck in the machine?”

  134. Poltroon says:

    My idea of a utopian fantasy. Except for the hyperinflation/currency collapse thingy.

    “You can feel the crazed mass psychology all around you. Your co-workers know you bought gold some time ago and pepper you with questions seemingly every hour, interrupting your work. They ask if you heard about the latest pick from Fox Business. They want to know where you buy gold, who has the best price, and, by the way, how do I know if my gold is real? They all look at you differently now. Women smile at you in the hallway. You worry someone may follow you home.

    Your relatives once teased you but now hound you with questions at family get-togethers – what stocks do you own? What’s that gold newsletter telling you? Where can I keep my bullion? You don’t want to be the life of the party, but they force it – it’s all anyone wants to talk about. Your brother tells you he dumped his broker and is trading full-time. Another relative shoves his account statement in front of you and wants advice. You sense someone will ask for a loan. You don’t know what to tell people. The attention is discomforting, and you feel the urge to escape.

    At first it was exciting, then breathtaking. Now it’s scary. You’re drowning in obscene profits but are becoming increasingly anxious about how long it can last. Worry replaces excitement. You don’t know if you should sell or hold on. Nobody knows what to do. But the next day, your portfolio screams higher and you feel overwhelmed once again.

    You grab the local paper and read the town’s bullion shop had a break-in last night. They hired a security company and have posted several guards outside and inside the store. Premiums have skyrocketed, but lines still form every day. The proprietor hands out tickets when locals arrive: your number will be called when it’s your turn… the wait will be long… please have your order ready… yesterday we ran out of stock at 11am.

    You begin to worry about the security of your own stash of bullion – those clever hiding spots don’t feel quite as secure as you first thought they’d be. Is the bank safe deposit box really secure? Shouldn’t they hire a security guard? Should I move some of it elsewhere? Is there anywhere truly safe? You find yourself checking gun prices online.

    And it’s all happening because the dollar is crashing and inflation has scourged every part of life. You curse at those who said this couldn’t happen and mock past assurances from government. Cash is a hot potato, and spending it before it loses more purchasing power is a daily priority. Everyone is clamoring to get something that can’t lose value, but mostly gold and silver.

    Your wife calls and says the $100 you gave her that morning isn’t enough to buy groceries for dinner. Prices change often on everything. She urges you to get some bread and milk before the stores raises the price again. You suddenly remember you’re low on gas and make plans to leave work early to beat others to the filling station. Restaurants and small businesses post prices on a chalkboard and update them throughout the day. Employers scramble to work out an “inflation adjustment” for salaries.”

  135. Confused In NJ says:

    130.Poltroon says:
    September 30, 2010 at 5:13 pm
    Holy shit.

    ZH- “Bloomberg has just released something which if true, will wipe out every last ounce of credibility left in the market. As readers will recall, the initial scapegoat that CNBC and everyone else, who has no clue what really happens in the market decided to pin the flash crash on, was small Kansas-based trading firm Waddell & Reed, which traded a few extra contracts of E-Mini futures in the hours preceding the flash crash.

    Everyone knows it was Mrs. O”Leary’s Cow in Chicago that kicked over the lantern & started the flash crash.

  136. Anon E. Moose says:

    While I’m on this riff about the retireees bleeding the working generations of this country dry, this pops up (via PlanetMoney — Yes! A conservative can listen to NPR; might as well since I’m paying for it whether I listen or not):

    A taxpayer receipt broken down by what its spent on (proportionate to the taxes paid).

    On a median income of $34,140, $5,400 is paid in Federal income tax and FICA. Of that, the two largest line items are $1,040.70 to pay Social Security benefits, and $625.51 to pay Medicare. That’s over 30% in direct transfers to retirees.

    I have to dig out my [well-thumbed] copy of Atlas Shrugged. I remember one scene when Dagny found a hobo stowaway on her train and invited him into her private car to eat. He used to work for the motor company that went socialist under the leadership of the second generation after its founder died. One of his memories of the decline is that someone’s mother needed a surgery, but mysteriously died the night before she was to go to the hospital. The collective were happy to have those resources freed to be spent elsewhere.

  137. Anon E. Moose says:

    Neilsen Motors should be “Twentieth Century Motor Company”

    I thought that didn’t sound right.

  138. Fast Eddie says:

    What the f*ck is this thing, the old crone’s house in the Hansel and Gretel tale? $529,000 and just under 10 grand in taxes. The PITI with 20% down will leave you $3000 per month in the hole.

  139. Al Gore says:


    “What the f*ck is this thing, the old crone’s house in the Hansel and Gretel tale? $529,000 and just under 10 grand in taxes. The PITI with 20% down will leave you $3000 per month in the hole.”

    The place looks like Mary Poppins lives there.

  140. ben says:

    I also believe that is exactly what will happen. Gold and Silver will continue to trend higher long-term but they’ll suffer a major correction when TSHTF simply because there’s so many levered players currently pushing them up. Right now they have every appearance of a bubble

    Every appearance of a bubble other than multiple pullbacks and a slope that approaches infinity on the upswing. Gold has a lot more to go before it even resembles a bubble. Every bubble in this history of the world has a huge price spike in the vertical direction. Gold may be a bubble in the making, but it has easily another $1000 to go before it the “gold bubble” even becomes plausible.

  141. ben says:

    I love how every talks about the “high storage costs of gold”. 99.99% of the world doesn’t have enough money to fill a shoe with gold coins. The storage costs are negligible at best for nearly everyone on the planet.

  142. Al Gore says:

    They should mark the US’s stock of gold to the market price, and back the
    dollar with a percentage of the newly-priced gold. Of course we dont really know if there is any gold in Fort Knox do we?

  143. Comrade Nom Deplume aux maison says:

    [137] poltroon

    One thing you will see is a decline in the savings rate as folks get rid of dollars as fast as they get them. One positive result will be a tremendous boom in retailing as folks would rather hold onto durable goods, ammo, booze, and canned food. The vacation industry should make out well also–folks will prefer to get a week’s worth of Jersey shore now rather than a day’s worth five years from now.

    So it isn’t all bad.

  144. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Doom [137],

    2015-2017. I’ll be kicking it out faster than one can mutter, Tall Paul.

  145. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    AG [145],

    The bullion bank short on the Comex and LBMA is greater that the entire earth’s capacity to produce the underlying for more than 5 years out. Yet, the market is bubbling? It’s amazing how many that missed the ride and have no clue what’s driving the dynamics of the trade, are experts in calling a top. They should STFU and go short, sell the Dec 1,350 gold calls. They have never witnessed a blow off top in the metals. We are far way. However, when it hits, it will make nasquack and RE look like spring training.

  146. Confused In NJ says:

    Seems like a boom in money bags which tie to your belt, to hold the $20 Double Headed Obama Gold Coins. Another money bag will be needed for the Silver & Bronze change.

  147. Al Gore says:

    Grim, 143 in mod.

    Equador in chaos tonight.

    “A BBC News website reader in Guayaquil, Andrea M, said: “Thieves have taken advantage of this situation, and started attacking people in the streets. Now, most people are at their homes, waiting to see what happens with the government.”

  148. A.West says:

    The Twentieth Century Motor story from Atlas Shrugged is prophetic.
    Here someone clips that story online:
    It’s Sastry’s dream world come true.

  149. Pat says:

    Stop picking on the former and/or latter minorities.

  150. Yikes says:

    yo’me says:
    September 30, 2010 at 7:22 am

    #8 Who has equity in their homes? A person that bought in the last 5 years that put 20% is underwater

    not totally true. bought in 09, put down 35%, not underwater.

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