Febuary CoreLogic HPI shows stabilization in nondistressed pricing

Prices in the New York Metro Area (New York-White Plains-Wayne, N.Y.-N.J. MSA) were up 0.8% in the past year, and up 2.6% if you exclude distressed properties.

From MarketWatch:

Home prices fall for seventh month in February

Home prices fell for a seventh straight month in February as a wave of distressed properties continued to wash over the U.S. market, real-estate data company CoreLogic Inc. said Thursday.

CoreLogic’s national home price index dropped 6.7% in February, versus the same month a year earlier. The decline was bigger than the January index reading, which was 5.5% lower than a year ago.

More than three years since house prices began to collapse in the U.S., the market is still struggling to absorb millions of properties that are in foreclosure or other stages of distress. In January, CoreLogic estimated there were 1.8 million residential units lingering in the shadows of the market. Read about shadow inventory here.

Excluding distressed sales, CoreLogic said home prices fell 0.1% in February, compared to a year earlier.

Despite the continued overall decline, home prices excluding distressed properties are showing signs of stability, according to Mark Fleming, chief economist at CoreLogic.

“When you remove distressed properties from the equation, we’re seeing a significantly reduced pace of depreciation and greater stability in many markets,” Fleming said in a statement.

“Price declines are increasingly isolated to the distressed segment of the market, mostly in the form of REO sales, as the stock of foreclosures is slowly cleared,” he added.

From Inman:

Greater stability in nondistressed real estate prices

U.S. home prices fell for the seventh month in a row during February, although price declines are increasingly concentrated in sales of distressed properties such as bank-owned homes, data aggregator CoreLogic said in releasing its home price index.

The CoreLogic home price index showed U.S. home prices down 6.7 percent from a year ago during February, a sharper decline than the 5.5 percent year-over-year drop registered in January.

Excluding distressed sales, the index was essentially flat, declining by 0.1 percent from a year ago compared to 1.4 percent in January. Distressed sales include short sales and real-estate owned, or “REO,” properties.

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247 Responses to Febuary CoreLogic HPI shows stabilization in nondistressed pricing

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. Mike says:

    Wells Fargo will be eliminating 1900 mortgage agent positions in the coming months. Come on people by a house already.

  3. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Short Sales Pressure Home Prices

    Home prices fell 6.7 percent in February year over year, according to a new report from CoreLogic. That numbers includes distressed sales, that is, sales of foreclosed properties or short sales, where the bank agrees to let the homeowner sell for less than the value of the mortgage. If you take those sales out, however, home prices were basically flat.

    “When you remove distressed properties from the equation, we’re seeing a significantly reduced pace of depreciation and greater stability in many markets,” notes CoreLogic’s chief economist Mark Flemming. “Price declines are increasingly isolated to the distressed segment of the market, mostly in the form of REO sales, as the stock of foreclosures is slowly cleared.”

    Distressed sales, though, still make up more than a third of all home sales, according to the National Association of Realtors, and that number is likely to rise at least in the near future. The banks have slowed the process of foreclosure, and that has reduced the number of bank owned properties hitting the market lately, but it’s a whole different story with short sales.

    “Absolutely we can see on the ground, it’s just happening,” says Robert Cruz, a real estate broker just south of San Francisco who deals primarily in short sales. “The banks are asking us to go out and engage the borrower, find the borrowers who have defaulted or re-defaulted and list the properties before they have to foreclose.”

    So why am I telling you all this? Because if short sales continue to increase at this rate, even just this year, that’s going to push the home price numbers down even further. Sure, if you take out the short sales, the numbers will look better, but those big headline numbers generally include short sales, and that will further erode confidence. More short sales will also force organic sellers and home builders to try to compete with lower prices. Short sales may be better for the banks and better for borrowers’ credit scores, but they will take their toll on the greater market.

  4. AG says:

    Silver B_tchez!

    Can’t wait to see the oil prices when the house of Saud is kicked to the curb.

    Enjoy your radiation folks and have a nice day.

  5. grim says:

    I’m not sure I agree with Diana in #3.

    What the numbers are telling me is that the bleed through to non-distressed is almost non-existent. If short sales were a new phenomenon, I’d agree, but they aren’t, and neither are REOs, so her prediction is a long-shot.

    Anecdotally, I’m sure many of you would agree. REOs and Short-Sales don’t really appear to be pulling down the comps dramatically anymore. I’ll chalk that up to geographic separation up in this area. Distressed properties there, and non-distressed here. What does it matter if everyone wants to live here? You can’t use a comp from there.

    Likewise, we all saw the “stubborn” article, sellers are looking at comps and just saying, who cares?

  6. grim says:

    From 201 Magazine:

    New Residents?: Kim Kardashian & LaLa Vasquez search for homes in Alpine

    Reality star Kim Kardashian is looking to move into the same building as wife of New York Knicks’ forward Carmelo Anthony, LaLa Vasquez, according to celebrity website TMZ.

    Kim Kardashian and LaLa Vasquez were spotted touring Alpine for homes. They are looking for residencies close to each other to hang out with one and another, especially when their NBA other-halfs are on the road.

    According to bergen.com sources, the Anthony family is looking for apartments in the Alpine area for $20,000 to $30,000 a month until they decide on a residence to call home.

  7. serenity now says:

    Re#5 Grim are you suggesting that Upper Haughty in BC is indeed special?

  8. The rare short sale we have these days goes at tremendous discount and doesn’t seem to affect the neighborhood selling prices on “normal” sales at all (even condoshacks).

    However, the short sales we do are always in the midst of plenty of other inventory- priced to fantasy- that isn’t moving, and hasn’t been moving for 2+ years.

    This tells me that the only real, viable market in these communities are the handful of buyers willing to commit to the risk and fix-up of a distressed property.

    And, this market of buyers is shrinking, as short sales have developed the reputation of being risky, dead-end transactions.

    Good times.

  9. grim (6)-

    Can you confirm for us where LaLa Vazquez was dancing prior to meeting Mr. Anthony?

  10. Carmelo Anthony = Tim Thomas

  11. Shore Guy says:

    Bridge to Captain Smith: Good news, Sir, we are sinking more slowly. We arr still going to sink but we won’t die in icy water for another two hours.

  12. gary says:

    Oil at $112 and EURO approaching $145. Can anyone find the Bernank?

  13. borat obama says:


  14. gary says:

    Likewise, we all saw the “stubborn” article, sellers are looking at comps and just saying, who cares?

    Let’s ask the sellers if they care when their sh1t hole is on the market for 192 days and counting. When they start hawking the nautilus equipment and Ellery’s American Girl collection at 70% off the original price, we’ll know the damn is breaking.

  15. gary says:

    serenity [7],

    Re#5 Grim are you suggesting that Upper Haughty in BC is indeed special?

    I lost count years ago regarding the number of agents that told me the prices in BC never go down. We’re 20% down from the peak in 2005 with more to come. Ask the guy who’s going to a closing table today with a personal check of $125,000 just to break away from the ball and chain around his ankle if he thinks his town is special.

  16. Confused In NJ says:

    Oil near $112 as attacks damage Libyan oil fields

  17. The only thing “special” anymore is waking up to live another day.

  18. $112 oil is very bullish. My gubmint tells me so.

  19. Mikeinwaiting says:

    All is well my world index/futures board is all green, 112 oil don’t worry be happy.

  20. NJcalling says:

    #8, How are shorts risky dead end transactions exactly? After an agreeable price is established with the buyer and bank, then and only then does the buyer have their home inspection, and the right to opt out of the deal determinative on the home inspection. Done properly, a buyer of a short should have 20/20 vision of what they are buying, risk entirely removed for the equation. How are they risky? What do you mean “dead end” transactions?

  21. calling (21)-

    Many short sale deals die well before an inspection can be done, as the average mitigator is working about 150-180 files at a time. Lost paperwork, misfiled paperwork, incompetent BPO/appraisal work- and about 100 other things that can bollocks up a deal- happen all the time. I routinely have a short sale or two take from 6-11 months to close…and I’m good at this stuff.

    Not every buyer can stomach an interminable wait and the possibility of not closing at all, no matter what the potential discount may be.

  22. Still an open invitation to anyone out there who wants to spend a week with me.

    At the end, you will fully understand why I think the way I do.

  23. Mikeinwaiting says:

    21 calling you are going to get an ear full if some want to restate the pitfalls. Where you been, folks have been all over this.

  24. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Calling even Grim got burnt in one of these, I would say he knows more than most on RE.
    Stay away stay far away.

  25. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Debt 23 I’d come but we would wind up in jail.

  26. RoyBatty says:

    Debt Supernova says:
    April 8, 2011 at 6:59 am

    Carmelo Anthony = Tim Thomas


    Not even close. A bad Carmelo Anthony might be equal to a good Antoine Walker. But Tim Thomas was nothing more than a 3rd option. With weak rebounding.

  27. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot lets get Gary on board and really go on a bender.

  28. So What Who Cares?? (formerly 3b) says:

    #5 I have seen more price declines in the last 4 or 5 months, that at any other time since the bubble burst.

  29. gary says:

    Carmelo Anthony = Tim Thomas

    The Knicks need to find Allan Houston, quick! Perhaps sign him to a 100 million dollar deal. Oh wait, they tried that. Actually, it’s all Anucha Browne Sanders’ fault!

  30. gary says:

    Mikeinwaiting [28],

    Can we take hostages? :)

  31. The number of short sales in this area is beginning to dry up, as those who are being served lis pendens realize that:

    1. Virtually nothing is going to sheriff sale anymore.
    2. Sheriff sales will not start again until there is a universal fraudclosure settlement.
    3. Once sheriff sales start again, the backlog is years-deep.
    4. The old average time in NJ for the lis pendens-to-sheriff sale cycle was 857 days. It may take 4-6 years under a new system.

    At the beginning of this crisis, people getting served lis pendens would call me the same day, and I’d have properties on the market within a week and under contract within 30 days. Those days are gone…as even the most naive borrower already has a strategy in place before they even fall into default.

  32. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gary Yes, otherwise it would just be another day.

  33. mike (28)-

    Now THAT sounds like a plan to get us all landed in jail.

  34. mike (28)-

    That’s also a GTG that might end in a way similar to the Russian roulette scene in The Deer Hunter.

  35. mikey (33)-

    I’m in if we can kidnap Moose and hold him for ransom.

    Although we’re gonna have a tricky decision to make when his wife and kids tell us to make sure we don’t leave any traces of him.

  36. …and his bankster massas won’t give as much as a baloney sandwich to spring him.

  37. Anybody got a good woodchipper to rent for a day or two?

  38. Lone Ranger says:

    Tonto, we broke thru that key 31 level in March. Now at 40, that’s 45K per futures contract in less than 60 days. But Kemosabe, only a few are paying attention. Most are too busy discussing claptrap like blue ribbon districts, QE3, 4, 5, 6, fuel rods and coupon clipping. Tonto, cut them some slack. After all, nobody could see this coming.

    What’s next Kemosabe? As long as Sheriff Bernank continues to fire blanks we heading north. There will be vicious retracements south bound; they will be opportunities to saddle up and move onward. Maybe we should start locking up some of our gains.

    “Sheriff have sickness in head— cannot fix with medicine”

  39. Lone Ranger says:

    we are

  40. Confused In NJ says:

    With the price of gas, might be a good time to go green with a battery cordless lawn mower, like the 36volt Neuton. It’s Duracell is rated for 5 years at a cost of $120 replacement, which is cheaper then $4-$5 a gallon for gas all year plus oil etc., and minimal maintenance.

  41. Shore Guy says:

    Ransom of Red Chief meets Fargo?

  42. Confused In NJ says:

    Huge Asteroid to Pass Near Earth in November

    They should rename it Bernanke.

  43. Xroads says:

    Questions On the foreclosure issue: I went for a bike ride last week and was surprised how many houses were empty and in foreclosure but not listed for sale or listed on realtytrac or sheriff’s website it’s though they vanished on paper what gives? I also know someone who was served lis pendens on primary and investment property(which has been empty for 3 years) and neither show up anywhere how could this be?

  44. 30 year realtor says:

    #32 Debt – There were 8 properties sold at sheriff sale in Bergen last week, not all from small local banks and private concerns. A couple of weeks ago there were 2 FNMA sales. There is movement but I won’t classify it as a return to normal.

  45. grim says:

    #44 – Extend and pretend. Why mark to market and take the hit, when you can hold on to it and mark to make believe.

  46. gary says:

    The average federal worker earns $101,628 in total compensation — including wages and benefits– compared with $60,000 for the average private employee.

    One day, these ‘workers’ are going to check their direct deposit pay in their bank account and see the words “failed transaction.”

  47. Confused In NJ says:

    Matsuko Ito, who has been living in a shelter in the small northeastern city of Natori since the tsunami, said there’s no getting used to the terror of being awoken by shaking. She said she started screaming when the quake struck around 11:30 p.m.

    “It’s enough,” the 64-year-old while smoking a cigarette outside. “Something has changed. The world feels strange now. Even the way the clouds move isn’t right.”

    I agree!

  48. jamil says:

    “The US is going down a similar road as that taken by Greece and Portugal with regard to its budget decisions, John E. Silvia, chief economist at Wells Fargo, said on Wednesday. . . . As the deadline for a budget agreement looms in Congress, Silvia told CNBC that the US must recognize that the moderate economic growth forecast by most economists for the country will fail to generate the tax revenue necessary to fund long-running government entitlement spending.

    “We have to make some arrangements in terms of cutting back the promises that were made by prior politicians for these entitlements,” Silvia said.

    “(We’ve had) forty years of political promises to give people certain entitlements, certain benefits. And we’ve now come to understand that the United States is in a very difficult position than it was in the early post-World War II period. We’re not the dominant economy. And our pace of growth has moderated. Our ability to finance this is all limited.”

    The fight between parasites and taxpayers is fought everywhere..from WI to DC..
    At least in Wisconsin, the parasites lost, after declaring loudly that the election was a referendum on spending cut “anti-union” policies of WI. Let’s see how parasites fare today in DC. Maybe there is some hope left for the country.

  49. x (44)-

    That’s why they call it shadow inventory.

    Your pal who got served lis pendens? How long ago? Some counties have a lag in reporting to RealtyTrac. If they don’t post the filings electronically, RealtyTrac may have missed them, too.

  50. 30 year (45)-

    Bet if you scratched the surface, every single one of those sheriff sales was a “slam dunk”: clear, short chain of note sales; no robosigning; little/minimal securitization; no servicer hanky-panky.

    At the end of the day, the foreclosing bank’s attorney has to vouch for the file. If the file is tight and legit, so be it.

    Too bad that tight, legit files appear to be the exception and not the rule.

  51. jamil says:

    Yes, but the parasites don’t go away quietly. They will riot (see Greece, Wisconsin etc), kill and intimidate people. It will be messy.

    We need leaders, like Gov Christie or Walker who are ready to face the death threats and physical danger when the lavish lifestyle of parasites gets threatened. (In WI, dem activists have been arrested for death threats and approaching Walker’s house in the middle of the night). It is now or never.

  52. freedy says:

    just got off the phone with a friend. behind two payments on his mort. bank would
    not take a payment for one of the past dues. he’s underwater,,i told him not to worry
    stop paying . could go for maybe two years . he’s in dumont,another wonderful
    NJ town . guys taxes have doubled over the last few years . told him to tell the bank,screw it .

  53. It’s all going to end in tears. Everything is ruined and beyond hope.

    Only goal now should be to survive the coming holocaust and be part of starting over.

  54. zieba says:

    Friday rod report,



    and this interesting feet-on-the-ground account of one mans excursion into the zone…Kid of Speed 2 if you will…


  55. Anon E. Moose says:

    Title Topic;

    “stabilization in nondistressed pricing”

    As if the distressed market is magically different than the other half (yes, I said half) of properties for sale.

    They are all crap, they all need gut reno, and they all have the same value; the only difference is whether the title owner admits it or not.

  56. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [31] gary

    I really think you will need a lawyer in attendance on said bender.

  57. Lone Ranger says:

    Buried under the sea of liquidity there lies a non functioning, worldwide charade. There is a creepy stench in the air from the mold coast to Lisbon. Yet, the only solution is to paper over paper. None of the structural problems that caused this crisis have begun to be addressed; leverage/debt was simply transferred from one defunct institution to another. The Bernank solution is burying the lower/middle class. Welcome to the era of zombieism; living in a house which one can not afford with no abiltiy to attain sustainable employment.

    Has anyone seen Mrs Wantanabe?

  58. Happy Renter says:

    “It’s all going to end in tears. Everything is ruined and beyond hope. Only goal now should be to survive the coming holocaust …”

    At least it’s Friday!

  59. Lone Ranger says:

    “The US is going down a similar road as that taken by Greece”


    Wantanapolous, wherever he is, brought this up a year ago.

  60. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [38] debt

    Better make it a three day rental. You want time to find a very remote location, then break it down and clean it thoroughly.


  61. Painhrtz - Cat of God says:

    While I’m not a fan of fixed implacements Clot, Ket and Nom this is for you


  62. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [53] jamil

    I don’t doubt that the parasites will riot, but as for killing people, one need only look at the pattern of riot deaths in this country. The only ones truly at risk are their own kind.

    I suppose that they could go on a rampage, but, unlike Greece, union thugs rioting in the suburbs and exburbs are a lot more likely to develop a fatal case of lead poisoning here. All that pollution, you know.

  63. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Boy this board is darker than usual this morning. Has everyone joined Clot in hitting the Knob Creek before 10?

  64. So What Who Cares?? (formerly 3b) says:

    #54 It used to be nice town, but has gone down rapidly over the years. Gone down in every way except the property taxes. You can buy houses in Dumont at around 1987 prices now;same in Bergenfield.

  65. So What Who Cares?? (formerly 3b) says:

    #52 gary So does that mean you are not moving to Wyckoff??

  66. freedy says:

    dumont and bergenfield now third world towns . just walk the downtowns and side streets . sad, use to be nice middle class

  67. JJ says:

    I need to stock up on butt plugs

    Lone Ranger says:
    April 8, 2011 at 10:50 am

    “The US is going down a similar road as that taken by Greece”


    Wantanapolous, wherever he is, brought this up a year ago.

  68. Shore Guy says:

    Yes I do know who you are. You are the som-bi-tch I am going to cuff and toss into the back of my cruiser if you don’t shut up and start following directions:


  69. Shore Guy says:

    Wantan is hiding in plain sight.

  70. Shore Guy says:


    Oh! That is a place, and not a verb. Gotcha.

  71. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [58];

    Perhaps more than one.

  72. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [73] moose

    Perhaps we need to take the “build a beAR” course first. BTW, turns out I know one of the guys that runs it.

  73. Shore Guy says:

    “there’s no getting used to the terror of being awoken by shaking. ”

    I have experienced one smallish earthquke that shook for a good 30 seconds. It felt like the structure was going to come down around me at any moment. At thst point, it is not fight or flight, it is all flight. The experience — mild as it as, really — gave me a better visceral understanding of people who have lived through an earthquake. Before that, the only things I had felt were little “bumps’
    of earthquakes. Once the shaking is fairly violent and just keeps going, it gets one’s attention.

  74. gary says:

    3b [67],

    Wyckoff will be a perfect location for effective tactical maneuvers. It’s elevated terrain which can be useful in survival tactics. Furthermore, we can get greater range out of low-speed projectiles like rocks and javelins.

  75. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Big tax policy confab in Santa Clara, and one of the panels will address whether US corporations are going to flee offshore. No paper published in connection with the panelists, but the headline was “Firm Incorporation Outside of The US: No Exodus Yet.”

    I need to know whether the relevant part of that is the “No” or the “Yet”.

  76. gary says:

    Nom & Moose,

    Who’s going to place the “not guilty” plea for you guys when we all get thrown in the hooscow? ;)

  77. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [73] moose

    In fact, I think each attendee will need their own lawyer there.

  78. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [78] gary

    See post 77.

  79. Shore Guy says:

    From above (I have never heard of the guy but he sounds like a real schmuck):


    The driver, identified in the report as Antwuan Clisby, couldn’t produce any documentation for the vehicle, the report said. He then told the officer his passenger needed to leave the vehicle to eat dinner, and the officer said no one was leaving until the investigation was complete.

    With that, Iverson became “irate,” according to the police report, saying, “I’m the (expletive) passenger.” The officer radioed for backup, and a second unit arrived, according to the report. Clisby and Iverson were asked to exit the vehicle, while Iverson continued to curse at the officer, the report said.

    When police scanned the identification number of the vehicle, which belongs to Iverson, it was found to have tags that expired in 2009. Iverson, former MVP for the Philadelphia 76ers, was told his car would be towed.

    “Take the vehicle, I have 10 more,” Iverson said, according to the report. “Police don’t have anything else (expletive) to do except (expletive) with me.” He then asked, “Do you know who I am?”

    The officer wrote in his report that “For the next 20 minutes, Mr. Iverson went on and on about who he was. I stated to Mr. Iverson, ‘It really doesn’t matter who you are. You tried to conceal your vehicle with a fake drive-out tag due to you not paying for your tags.’ ”

    Iverson then said, “I make more money than you will in 10 years,” according to the report.


  80. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    whoops, s/b post 79

  81. Shore Guy says:


    You are assuming they will not be shot while “attempting to evade capture.”

  82. Anon E. Moose says:

    Debt [36];

    I’m in if we can kidnap Moose and hold him for ransom.

    Although we’re gonna have a tricky decision to make when his wife and kids tell us to make sure we don’t leave any traces of him.

    Yet another impotent theat. Good to know you’re almost back to your usual self. I say almost because my death is only implied.

    If the positions were reversed and if you could afford to keep up your life insurance, I have no doubt your wife would say the same.

  83. gary says:

    The njrereport band of brothers: lawyers, weapons, and gold. I think the only other thing we need is bongos and alcohol and we’re good to go!

  84. freedy says:


    more third world examples . NJ down the tubes ,except for the high end.

  85. So What Who Cares?? (formerly 3b) says:

    #68 Dumot is starting to look like parts of Kentucky.

  86. gary says:

    3b [88],

    LOL! We’ll set them on fire and roll them down route 208!

  87. Kettle1^2 says:

    Ranger 59

    Has anyone seen Mrs Wantanabe?

    She is cowering in am earthquake shelter listening to the hollow click of the Geiger counter at her side.

  88. So What Who Cares?? (formerly 3b) says:

    #89 Fun fun!!!!

  89. Kettle1^2 says:

    Nom 62

    I would recommend a heated sodium hydroxide solution for cleanup (i,e draino), it’s great for breaking down biological material. Collect all cleaning solution used, mix with baking soda to neutralize and dump down the drain.

  90. Kettle1^2 says:


    A light bleach solution should be used over the entire area before ad after to handle any stray DNA. Allow to stand for at least 5 minutes followed by a warm water rinse.

  91. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [85] gary

    Leave the bongos. Take the alcohol.

    I’ll bring cannolis.

  92. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [93] kettle

    Following this, I suggest running a sh1tload of wood, compost, and leaves through it so it doesn’t appear to have been cleaned. Add some really sappy pine in as well. Makes for a nice, dirty look.

    Attn: federal prosecutors. This is a humor thread, okay?

  93. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [84] moose

    “If the positions were reversed and if you could afford to keep up your life insurance, I have no doubt your wife would say the same.”

    Or maybe his wife doesn’t really care about the insurance . . . .

  94. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [92, 93] kettle

    In the Conn. case (which I recall as I was living in Mass. at the time), they identified dna from minimal material. I had (in jest) suggested cleaning because I thought they found dna in the chipper itself, but the article said that the material was found at the site.

    So cleaning is worthless unless chip the material is gone as well, e.g., chipping into a river so everything washes away.

    BTW, and FWIW, I think I am gonna exercise more caution in these threads. Yes, its a joke, but Florida prosecuted the guy who wrote the pedophile handbook, and he copped a plea to get out of jail. Bottom line is, if the law wants to get you, they will find a way.

  95. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Since I have no interest in disposing of bodies, I will be going now. Off to the gym and to deposit another legal fee payment check.

    Now if I can figure out a way to avoid payroll tax on this money. Ah, I think I have it . . .

  96. Kettle1^2 says:


    I know nothing of body disposal, only how to clean a bioreactor

  97. ditto says:

    why not buy some deoxyribonucleases from Invitrogen? That should finish off any pesky DNA strands.

  98. Kettle1^2 says:


    there was a case a few years back where the prosecution used the cleanliness of the “crime” scene as evidence. I don’t remember the details.

  99. Painhrtz - Cat of God says:

    Actually to denature DNA and make it unuasable in a court of law it would be better to use one of the common peroxidases and introduce some form of RNA transcriptase in the presence of an amino acid to really scramble those pesky double stranded chains. Since most lay people do not have the ability and most cellular marterial is too “tough” to be denuted outside of a laboratory environment your better off using a biologic caustic agent as described above.

    I am just a humble biological janitor who keeps his ears open in the lab. Who neither condones nor knows much about the disposal of biological material short of bambi carcarcasses.

  100. Painhrtz - Cat of God says:

    The other issue is how do you handle mitochondrial DNA, which if said victims maternal relatives are still kicking could really throw a wrench into the whole process. Your just better off not committing an agregious act and being miserably broke or get a divorce

  101. plume (79)-

    My gun trumps your lawyer.

    Shit. You are a lawyer.

  102. cobbler says:

    Discussion about schools seems to be more harmless.

  103. jamil says:

    This is rich.

    “THE OBAMA DOJ’S MEMO ON THE WAR IN LIBYA. “The Justice memo fully embraces the Bush administration view of Executive Power and directly contradicts then-Senator Obama’s 2007 statement.” Feel the change, baby!”

    DOJ attorney prepared a memo justifying Libya war, citing presidential wartime powers. When Yoo wrote identical memo, Shore Guy went ballistic on PMSNBC and declared this biggest threat to this country and demanded criminal prosecution of Yoo. Now your buddies have the same, but somehow I don’t think we see Shore Guy rambling about this. Leftist Hyporocrisy is a disease with no cure.


  104. Libtard says:

    Unless your referring to the woodchipper operator school. I think it’s a Montessori.

  105. So What Who Cares?? (formerly 3b) says:
  106. Libtard says:

    Jamil…When Obama gets reelected, will you finally shut your pie hole?

  107. So What Who Cares?? (formerly 3b) says:

    Gary: just reduced 55k now at 300k. Sold in 2002 for 359K


  108. jamil says:

    64, nom
    “I suppose that they could go on a rampage, but, unlike Greece, union thugs rioting in the suburbs and exburbs are a lot more likely to develop a fatal case of lead poisoning here. All that pollution, you know.”

    Things get out of hand quickly. Remember the racist hate speeches by Al Sharpton in NY? After his incitement the mob went out and killed the first jew they could find. In another incident, after Sharpton’s marches the mob murdered several asians in a store Sharpton’s thugs were protesting against.

    In 2004 RNC convention, several dems were arrested when they were about to kidnap and behead GOP delegates. In WI, mob has been stalking Gov Walker and his family outside of his house in the middle of the night. You never now what these dems can do with (torch the house is not far-fetching if police is not there 24/7)

  109. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ok I go out to buy stuff for a pot of chicken soup & Moose is in a chipper! Now now gentlemen we aren’t even drunk yet. How about we just get drunk & get arrested for something stupid like a bar fight. If you come up here to Sussex it is expected, no arrest. Nom if we hit a more civilized part of NJ maybe you could bail us out, it would be appreciated.
    Ditto, Pain please no microbiology , I’m having flashbacks.
    Hey Moose why don’t you come along I’m sure we get a car load for the entertainment value. Debt /Moose at ten paces.

  110. freedy says:

    300k for a cape in river edge, good grief what a dump river edge another wonderful
    nnj town,,

  111. Painhrtz - Cat of God says:

    Mike can it be a ten paces with frozen paintballs, there has to be consequences without threat of imminent death

  112. Libtard says:

    JJ, is this your ride?


  113. So What Who Cares?? (formerly 3b) says:

    #14 Would have sold for 475K or so at the peak. Owners have if for 9 years, and will take an ugly, ugly haricut.Oh and the taxes are over 10K!!

  114. JJ says:

    It is a blocked site, now I wonder what my ride looks like. I am getting mad reading all these articles what to do with your tax refund. I am paying a boatload of taxes. Like rubbing salt in the wound

    Libtard says:
    April 8, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    JJ, is this your ride?


  115. chicagofinance says:

    Leaving for Citifield…..hope springs anew……you know you are fuked when the following is the team tagline…..
    The New York Mets…..we play hard for the die hards….

    Fcuk me….

  116. Nicholas says:

    The best way to completely break down genetic material into its base components and reduce the risk of detection is to use a well tested, age-old method called digestion. I suggest eating the remains and crapping it into the toilet.


  117. yo'me says:

    Bad News for Greece and Us
    Thursday, 07 April 2011 04:33
    Folks in Greece are being taught Keynesian economics by people who don’t believe in it. It seems that when you strangle your economy, budget deficits rise. Greece’s shrinking economy is leading to larger deficits (less growth means lower taxes and more transfer payments for things like unemployment insurance) and a rise in its debt to GDP ratio (when GDP falls, the debt to GDP ratio rises).

    The news is that the austerity being imposed by the EU and the IMF is making Greece’s debt situation worse, not better, just as all of us Keynesian types predicted. While the Greek experience should be a warning against going down the austerity path in the United States, due to the incompetence of the U.S. media it will be taken as a further warning of the need to act on the budget deficit quickly.

    This is sort of like pointing to the medical problems of a person suffering from anorexia as evidence of the urgent need to lose weight. That makes no sense, unless you are involved in the national debate over economic policy.

    Dean Baker

  118. relo says:

    Why short sale when you can buy a newer house at 1/4 of the price, rent out the old for several years. post lis pendens, and have it pay for the new? Sis told me it’s all the rage in her FL neighborhood. No Moose, she is not counted among the deadbeat scoundrels.

  119. Kettle1^2 says:


    your method would draw a lot of attention at a crime scene if the chemical residue were found.

  120. Painhrtz - Cat of God says:

    I was mearly using the wood chipper as an agitant for my garage based human genome project : )

  121. mike (113)-

    Man, living in that burg has really f’ed you up. :)

  122. chi (119)-

    To me, this sounds like an invitation to throw batteries at the players.

    Which I would do were I to go to a Mets game.

    “The New York Mets…..we play hard for the die hards….”

  123. nick (122)-

    Didn’t even take half a day for someone to go there…

  124. I am afraid to travel any further north in NJ than Hot Dog Johnny’s.

  125. Lone Ranger says:

    Oh my, the Crimex is shaking.

  126. cobbler says:

    I almost choked on jamil’s claim of dems’ intentions to behead RNC delegates… Regarding the topic of the day, open-air cremations could be a good and robust approach. You can actually get a permit if you persuasively claim that your religious belief system requires this.

  127. Kettle1^2 says:


    On April 6, Bloomberg reported Comex Silver Stockpiles as of April 5, and if you scroll down through the report, you’ll notice that JP Morgan has enough silver to fill, wait for it, 6 contracts. Yep 30,844 troy ounces, that’s all.


  128. Speaking of alternative uses for woodchippers:

    “A vast field of debris, swept out to sea following the Japan earthquake and tsunami, is floating towards the U.S. West Coast, it has emerged.

    More than 200,000 buildings were washed out by the enormous waves that followed the 9.0 quake on March 11.

    There have been reports of cars, tractor-trailers, capsized ships and even whole houses bobbing around in open water.

    But even more grisly are the predictions of U.S. oceanographer Curtis Ebbesmeyer, who is expecting human feet, still in their shoes, to wash up on the West Coast within three years.

    ‘I’m expecting parts of houses, whole boats and feet in sneakers to wash up,’ Mr Ebbesmeyer, a Seattle oceanographer who has spent decades tracking flotsam, told MailOnline.

    Several thousand bodies were washed out to sea following the disaster and while most of the limbs will come apart and break down in the water, feet encased in shoes will float, Mr Ebbesmeyer said.

    ‘I’m expecting the unexpected,’ he added.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374520/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-debris-floating-US-West-Coast.html#ixzz1IxNHlAP7

  129. relo says:

    Moose, perhaps your wait is about to pay off.

    There have been reports of…even whole houses bobbing around in open water.

  130. Moose is disgusted with those Japanese sumbitches who missed mortgage payments just because they got swept out to sea with their underwater houses and the equivalent of about 12,000 x-rays in two minutes.

  131. Enough Knob Creek in my belly, and I could behead a convention delegate from either party.

  132. Shore Guy says:


    Where did you get your au pairs?


  133. Shore Guy says:

    not really safe for work

  134. Libtard says:

    Still waiting on the death panels.

  135. hughesrep says:


    They are part of the shut down.

  136. When do we convene Moose’s death panel?

  137. Libtard says:

    Moose’s death panel.

    I think I saw them play the Limelight in the mid 80s.

  138. Confused In NJ says:

    WASHINGTON – From cradle to grave, minority populations tend to suffer poorer health and get poorer health care than white Americans. In a first-of-its-kind report, the government is recommending steps to reduce those disparities.

  139. Libtard says:


    NSFW, but not that bad either.

    ChiFi…link has been tested for virus’.

  140. Anon E. Moose says:

    Debt [143];

    When do we convene Moose’s death panel?

    I knew it… you don’t have the b@lls to do it yourself.

  141. Barbara says:

    When did NY Mag turn into Penthouse Forum? I never thought it could happen to me……

  142. Barbara says:

    Libtard, that wood paneling is deeply offensive. Glad my 7 year old wasn’t here to see it.

  143. Al Mossberg says:



    I have way too much of this green trash with the “all seeing eye” on it. I would be fortunate to see a retracement. Should we get a retracement there will not be enough for everyone.

  144. Al Mossberg says:

    A schill must schill from time to time. Mmm Mmm Mmm. This would even put a smile on Barry Soetoro’s face.

    Gold $1,474.70 $1,475.70 $16.40
    Silver $40.86 $40.91 $1.29

  145. Al Mossberg says:

    Looks like our friend Jim Sinclair is headed for the bunker. His rhetoric has changed from economic theory to diesel generators, solar panels, and farm land.

  146. Kettle1^2 says:

    So when do we start turning empty malls and retail space into public housing?

    “We’ve got 21 square feet of selling space for every man, woman and child in this country.”

    Mall Vacancies At Highest In 11 Years; Strip Malls Vacancy Rate Highest Since 1990

  147. Kettle1^2 says:

    Al 153

    There is no place to hide. Embrace the chaos, entropy is your friend!

  148. Painhrtz - Cat of God says:

    Barb I thought the same thing, brought back memories of being 12 reading penthouse forum and thinking every girl was crazed $ex fiend with like minded friends ready to party at a moments notice. Well 4 years of delivery service from high school and landscaping through college pretty burst that bubble. If it wasn’t written by JJ it didn’t happen.

  149. Juice X says:

    re: #144 – Limelight in the Mid 80s.

    Sunday nights were for Rock and Roll Church.

  150. JJ says:

    Here is my list of cool 80’s clubs. Hope you have been to some.

    Berlin NYC, NY
    Early 80s. First in an old bank building on Broadway and Houston and later in a third floor loft on 21 St between 5 and 6 Avenue, this club was the favorite hangout of Joey Ramone and Billy Idol. With lots of teased haired goths and visited by Matt Dillon and Nick Nolte, it was very dimly lit and didn’t get started until 4 AM. Lots of Euro dance stuff from New Order and Psychedelic Furs. No holds barred in this place. This NYC harcore party hangout element didn’t stop until brunch.
    Dancerteria New York, NY
    1980 – 1985?. One of three of the best clubs in NY during the 80’s. They had a few floors and great music!! Learned the words to ‘The Roof Is On Fire”. One of the floors was all goth/New Romantic music where I lived practically all weekend. Madonna filmed her video “Get into the Groove” in this club!
    Malibu Malibu Beach NY
    70’s-90’s. Converted beach pavillion -biggest and best new wave nites, 2500 partiers every weekend, WLIR broadcast live
    Maxx’s Kansas City New York City
    80’s. Punk, Rock, Rebellion. Great club to go to & not remember you were there in the morning. Thank God for friends.
    Milkbar 22 lerory st new york ny
    1985-86. White luminous,hip ultra 60’s before it was the thing,no listed # no sign no advertising Steve Saban of details and Michael Musto of the village voice call it the must place to be for anyone at the time who considered themselves a New York Hipster,it was ahead of its time
    Milkbar 22 lerory st new york ny
    1985-86. White luminous,hip ultra 60’s before it was the thing,no listed # no sign no advertising Steve Saban of details and Michael Musto of the village voice call it the must place to be for anyone at the time who considered themselves a New York Hipster,it was ahead of its time
    Mud Club New York City
    Early 80s. Great punk/yuppie/anybody scene. Lots of celebrities pretending not to be/and club-goers that didn’t care anyway.I think it was in the east or west village before those areas were considered COOL
    The Palladium N.Y., NY
    87-92. 2 floors, main level had big packed dance floor, awesome sound system.I sure miss those good old days of freestyle, and bass pounding house music.
    The Ritz New York City
    The Great 80’s. The home of all new-wave…. U2 with their first album, Tina Turner making her comeback, B-52’s, The Cure, Echo and the Bunnymen, New Order, Haircut 100, The Psychodelic Furs, etc. THE best club in Manhattan in the 80’s. Hot, steamy, sensual dance floor…those were the days.
    SHOUT NYC, Midtown 40’s West Side
    1986-90. Fun, Rocking, Place…met lots of people….
    Speaks Island Park, NY
    80-82. On the water in Island Park – music from Van Halen to 80’s dance hits – indoor/outdoor. Thursday nights were best, had my fake ID, came in late and got up for school the next morning. Memorable!
    Studio 54 New York, NY
    1977-1979,1980-1986, 1996. Studio 54 was the most popular nightclub ever. It was where celebrities danced with the working class, where you could be a star. Huge dance club with amazing sound system, light show, and a giant robotic man-in-the-moon over the dance floor. It was owned by the infamous Steve Rubell. The IRS raided the club and shut it down in 1979, and Steve Rubell went to prison. He sold the club to his friend Mark, who ran it for several years but it closed in 1986. It opened and closed several times, but the Last Dance Party was held in 1996. Today it is a Broadway Theater.
    The Underground New York, NY
    85/87. Three floors to look down on. Where i first saw people “Vougeing”, way before the song was ever made. Not to mention the smell of the street vendors food @ 5:ooam. You had to eat something on the subway ride home!!!
    Xenon New York, NY
    1980’s. Xenon’s was the most kicking club in the 80’s. Xenons was right off of Times Square – it drew the most diverse, interesting crowd back then. I know that it doesn’t exist aXenon New York, NY
    1980’s. Xenon’s was the most kicking club in the 80’s. Xenons was right off of Times Square – it drew the most diverse, interesting crowd back then. I know that it doesn’t exist anymore, I think that The Gap now sits in it’s space.
    Zappa’s Brooklyn, NY
    1979 – 1986. Back in the day…Madonna, Bon Jovi, Smithereens, Ramones, Dead Boys, Johnny Thunders, Joan Jett all played there!!!
    Zenon New York, NY
    1981-1985. There will never be a better dance club period.

    Juice X says:
    April 8, 2011 at 4:16 pm
    re: #144 – Limelight in the Mid 80s.

    Sunday nights were for Rock and Roll Church.

  151. Lone Ranger says:

    Manny, just being Manny.

  152. You left out Save the Robots.

  153. Fabius Maximus says:

    Nice to see Manny retire in discrace. Next up Barry.

  154. Al Mossberg says:

    I think we have hit that euphoria stage of inflation. I have never been this busy. People are dumping cash like its falling from trees.

    Next up. The doom stage of inflation.

  155. Add another one to my list of reasons I hate baseball.

  156. Shore Guy says:

    The Furs, how funny.

  157. #158 – No Suicide hall, BitterEnd, BottomLine, L’Amours?

    Also, nice stolen list jj;


  158. #158 – Berlin NYC, NY

    Heh, I used to love going on mohawk night.

  159. Anon E. Moose says:

    Re [167];

    From the link:

    007 Franklin, NY
    ’85-89. 007 was backwards for the disco Metro 700 club. Usually Tues and Wed were the popular 007 nights with Thursday as the standard for punks, posers, and wannabees. Great music in this little sunken dance floor. Joey was a great DJ!

    That’s actually Franklin Square, NY. The place took its name from the address, 700 Hempstead Turnpike. It was a non-descript four story professional office building, the kind you expect to have accountants and dentists. The club was in the basement. It ran as Metro 700 two nights a week, 007 a couple other nights; some other “700” name the rest of the week.

    They had 3 different businesses, all of which rented the club space from the building on a rotating basis. The advantage was if they were caught serving underage, they just opened up the next night under a different name.

  160. Sterling Grey Matters says:

    JJ – #158 – Best Clubs

    Can’t help but hear the voice of Bill Hader as Stefon when I read this.


  161. Lone Ranger says:

    Debt [165],

    Side A of the new carry. Real rates are approx – 8%. Great time to be a dirt bagger.

  162. ranger (171)-

    I can’t hear you. Too much of an echo down here in the mineshaft.

  163. Juice X says:

    fitch did not see the housing bubble either.

    Fitch says chances of US default ‘extremely low’


    Dimon Says Risk of $3 Billion European Loss Worth Taking
    Richard Beckman: Last of the Old-Style Media Moguls?
    EU Seen Compromised by Government Auctions Favoring Dealers
    Portugal to Start Talks on Bailout as Spain Threat Eases
    Ten-Year Treasury Yields Reach One-Month High Before Jobs Data

    order a reprintdigg thissave to del.icio.us

    Fitch Ratings says the U.S. government is extremely unlikely to default on its financial obligations, despite dire warnings from Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner about Congress’ refusal to raise the debt ceiling.

    The rating agency said in comments Thursday that the political standoff over the debt ceiling and the budget will end in accord, given the disastrous consequences of failing to agree.

    “The brinkmanship over the debt ceiling and the 2011 budget will be resolved. Of greater threat to U.S. financial stability and its “AAA” status would be the failure to agree on a credible medium-term fiscal consolidation strategy as economic recovery becomes more secure,” said David Riley, head of sovereign ratings at Fitch.

    The general government deficit is about 10 percent of gross domestic product during the calendar year 2011, Fitch said. That’s the highest figure for any country with a “AAA” sovereign rating, the agency said. The figure includes federal, state and local governments.

    In addition, the debt-to-GDP ratio is projected to reach 100 percent in 2012, the highest public debt burden of any “AAA” rated nation, Fitch said.

    “Fitch does expect that the tough choices on tax and spending will be made — as is starting to be seen at the state and local level — that are necessary to place public finances on a sustainable path,” Riley said.

    However, the agency noted, the U.S. economy is unusually flexible and dynamic, and the U.S. dollar’s status as an international reserve currency should shield it against an erosion of confidence and eventual default.

    Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told Congress this week that the government’s current debt limit of $14.29 trillion will be breached by May 16. He said the government could use stopgap measures to delay the event until July 8.

    After that, Geithner said, the U.S. would default on its obligations, unless Congress agrees to increase the debt ceiling.


  164. Fitch is just another pimp in the world of financial whores.

  165. Nothing will get better until we take 2-3 of these Fitch/Moody’s/S&P traitors and hang them from a lamppost on 5th Avenue on live TV.

    The only thing that will make these thieving c*cksuckers stand down is for them to fear getting stuffed into a van outside their homes one morning and turning up a few hours later with their necks snapped, dangling from a noose.

  166. Al Mossberg says:


    Real inflation will be 14% by the end of the year. Book it.

  167. Al Mossberg says:


    “The only thing that will make these thieving c*cksuckers stand down is for them to fear getting stuffed into a van outside their homes one morning and turning up a few hours later with their necks snapped, dangling from a noose.”

    They are going for broke. I personally would laugh at the spectacle of the Queen of England hanging from a lanp post outside the court house in Toms River NJ. I would stop a chuckle if that bald f_ck grandson and his wh_re fiancee were there too.

  168. Al Mossberg says:



    Joshua Huddy style.

    “Joshua Huddy (November 8, 1735 – April 12, 1782), the commander of a New Jersey Patriot militia unit and a privateer ship during the American Revolutionary War, was captured by Loyalist forces twice, escaped once, and was hanged by them after his second capture in what was decried as a lynching. His death became the first international incident in the history of the United States and Huddy entered history as “the hero martyr of old Monmouth.” In retaliation the Continental army planned to execute a British officer in what became known as the Asgill Affair.”

  169. WickedOrange says:

    RE: 154

    yep, we live in a world where best buy is amazon’s show room

  170. I’m truly surprised no one has gotten off a head shot on Dimon, Blankfein or any of those gangsters.

  171. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (104) clot

    My guns trump your gun.

    And I know how to frame a defense.

    Sheet, yeah. I am a lawyer. And a heavily-armed lawyer at that. Your worst nightmare.

  172. spyderjacks says:

    182: My worst nightmare would be a heavily armed lawyer… in public office. ;-)

  173. plume (182)-

    If all else fails, I’ll shoot you with my grenade launcher. :)

  174. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (184) clot

    You win.

  175. Shore Guy says:

    I remember when they built a stockade in Huddy Park.

  176. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    USG has an agreement on a short term CR to avoid shutdown.

    MSNBC spinning this furiously. Talking heads there about ready to explode.

  177. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    This is a lot more money than I had planned in my screens, but the property is absolutely ideal.


    Shore Guy, any interest in being VT Mountain Guy as a part owner of this Nompound?

  178. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    This is actually a decent, if not far more modest, Nompound possibility.

    But I just cannot get past the STREET NAME. It should be in New Jersey (Xanadu?)


    I am not kidding—that is the actual street name.

  179. grim says:

    188 – actually a nice piece of property, I like it

  180. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [190] grim

    Oh, I like it too, and it passes most of the siting and use criteria in my screen. The only two problems with it are (1) cost, and (2) potential historical and conservation restrictions.

    Cost may prevent me from being able to market to the optimum number of co-owners (8-12 owners/families). And any restrictions on the ability to farm or cut timber would be problematic if too restrictive. The restrictions must be pretty severe because the cost is much lower than comparable properties in less desirable areas.

    It is doable, and would make a great Nompound, but it would be harder to put together the investor group: It is much harder to convince an upper middle class earner with family to put aside 120K in a minimally productive investment than 75K.

  181. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom Curious what are taxes on those., didn’t see it in listings.

  182. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [190] grim

    If you really do like it (and I mean seriously), we should talk.

  183. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [192] mike

    Don’t know. I looked also and could not find them. Naturally, they are an issue, but in the case of Gibbs Farm, they are probably low due to the conservation easements and if the property is in use status.

    Naturally, taxes are part of any diligence, and factor heavily in the financial analysis. But that is why the property screen is so important. If a property has the potential to generate more income, then a higher tax is acceptable.

  184. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Mike, Grim,

    One thing to consider is that a property like that can generate both agricultural and seasonal rental income, which should cover the nut on taxes and expenses, and even provide a modest ROI. It’s like getting the intangible benefits (recreational/leisure use, land for growing veggies/wood, and lifeboat property) for the cost of tying up capital. And then there is aggressive tax planning to sweeten the arrangement.

    But, like I said, it requires going big, just like the Yankees. They spend a lot but get a lot. Not everyone can do that. A lot of folks here are scraping together DPs; there’d be a lot of raised eyebrows if hubby sits down one day and tells the wife “I know we were saving for a house, but I think we should rent and consider this instead.”

  185. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Debt 127
    mike (113)-

    “Man, living in that burg has really f’ed you up. :)”

    Let me get this straight: I suggest an outing of drinking and eating, Gary wants to take hostages I say whatever, you what to kidnap Moose (chipper method of disposal), the scientific boys debate the best way to hide the evidence down to denaturing proteins in DNA, and somebody wants to eat the evidence!
    I am making chicken soup and suggest just drinking maybe a little bar fight and I’m f’up. Maybe more you guys should move to Sussex, anyway we need more people with teeth.

  186. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    BTW, this is the companion property to the one at 189


    The two together are comparable money to Gibbs farm and has more farm infrastructure, but much less land. But it also has two houses if merged. Now, if the land is well-sited, but has fewer restrictions, then it may be worthwhile to get both lots.

    But I am going nowhere without an owner’s group. So far, this activity is all cart, no horse.

  187. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom 195 Yes that will go over well. Then there would be a Nom pound of divorced men.

  188. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom 197 The plot thickens, might have gotten away with the under 300 one, now we are talking money.

  189. Fabius Maximus says:

    #68 Freedy
    #87 3b
    dumont and bergenfield now third world towns or like Kentucky?

    I think the description you are looking for is “white flight” I see them as nice blue collar towns. While like every town they get one or two bad crimes, the police blotter is usually all traffic related.


  190. Kettle1^2 says:


    is the idea to make a cash purchase or would the property be mortgaged?

  191. Lone Ranger says:


    You have me thinking. If you are not hard, best best is dirt.

  192. Juice X says:


    Radiation levels inside of Reactor #1 where it is estimated that 70% of the fuel rods are melted or damaged is now off the charts at 100 SV/h. This is inside the reactor containment. TEPCO also began bleeding the system and began inserting Nitrogen into the reactor to prevent an additional Hydrogen buildup and potential explosion.

    Link to live monitoring website site, and they are kind enough to provide language translations.


    If this reactor is leaking then they are going to need to continually re-pressurize it with Nitrogen to keep it from forming enough Hydrogen to possibly explode.

    The NRC report also appraised the likely condition within the cores.

    The report said damaged fuel rods in the No. 1 reactor had likely accumulated at the bottom of the pressure container and been covered by the salt from the seawater. That prevented cooling water from reaching the fuel rods.

    Because the water level in the pressure container has not gone beyond the position that is connected to the recirculating pump in the core, despite the volume of water pumped into the container, the report surmises that water is leaking from the sealing part of the pump.

    If a large volume of leaked water accumulates within the containment vessel, the vessel could be destroyed from the weight of the water should an aftershock hit the reactor.

  193. Lone Ranger says:

    best bet

  194. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [199] mike

    That is why the owners’ group formation has to come first, so there is agreement on what is needed. That said, the nompound idea is not static. Like a mutual fund, it can receive additional members and acquire additional properties, perhaps in different climes and with different purposes (beach house in Belize perhaps?). Anyway, to your point, perhaps you acquire the 13 acre parcel with a group of 3-4, and acquire the larger parcel with a second, larger group. Fact is, there are infinite ways to go about doing this. The key IMHO will be the agreement and capital contributions—both must be robust, otherwise group dynamics can cause it to fly apart.

    [201] kettle,

    I don’t think that financing is verboten per se, but I would want to see a substantial cash commitment and lockup from members. Having skin in the game is the only way to insure that dilletantes don’t later present the group with a lot of headaches.

    Assuming that you anticipate a pro rata investment of 70K per member and reserve of 10K per member (and there would have to be a reserve, just makes sense), perhaps you insist on 45K (half down, plus full reserve) and finance the rest. I think that could work, and it limits the initial outlay. But it does mean interest expense, and not at 4.5% either, so you have PITI. If the property is self-sustaining (e.g., covering PITI, utilities, expenses, and upkeep) at an acceptable percentage of low maintenance utilization (lets assume 60% of ag/leisure use capacity under leases and periodic vacation rentals of one week or more), and the likelihood of getting 80% or better utilization is very high, then financing would be a safe enough option. Otherwise, I would rather see more investment and less reliance on productivity to cover the nut.

    One alternative is to have a capital contribution schedule, so that the total investment is paid in over a period of time, e.g., 50% plus reserve down, and 10% per year for 5 years, in addition to any emergency capital calls needed to replenish the reserve. Miss a capital call and the agreement specifies how you get bought out.

  195. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [202] ranger

    Not sure I understand you. As for being hard, either you mean hard body, hard assets (shiny) or hard down there. And if you mean best bet is dirt, you concur, then I concur in your concurrence.

    Ultimately, the Nompound should be like shiny; a portion of your overall portfolio that acts as a hedge against inflation, or hyperinflation, but an investment that actually permits you to do something other than look at it while you own it, and actually produces a return. In fact, I would argue that it is a better investment than shiny.

    Okay, this has been fun, but I have work to do. Dog keeps escaping from yard, and I have to get on figuring out how I am gonna get the barrier fencing into a really difficult space.

  196. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “Nothing will get better until we take 2-3 of these Fitch/Moody’s/S&P traitors and hang them from a lamppost on 5th Avenue on live TV.”

    Debt. This is horribly moronic.

  197. hoodafa says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Wen Asks Local Governments to Help Control Property Market

    Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao asked local governments to take responsibility to keep housing affordable and said stabilizing consumer prices in the country is the top priority.

    The central government’s aim to control the property market is “clear” and the determination is “firm,” Wen said during a visit to eastern China’s Zhejiang province, according to a statement on the government’s web site today.

    The Chinese government is intensifying efforts to curb speculation in the real-estate market after housing prices gained for 19 consecutive months through December. Consumer prices in February climbed 4.9 percent from a year earlier, exceeding the government’s annual inflation target of 4 percent.


  198. Shore Guy says:


    I like the 13 acre property.

  199. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (209) shore

    From what I know of Vermont, I think this is suited to nompound use, or if you wanted it for commercial use. I don’t think it is well situated for single purpose rec/leisure. Not in Rutland anyway. That’s the issue some have with a nompound–the tradeoffs.

  200. veets (207)-

    Then you tell me just exactly what’s going to stop them, because their own consciences and law enforcement sure haven’t.

  201. Kettle1^2 says:

    Dont drink the milk!

    Radiation from Japan has been detected in drinking water in 13 more American cities, and cesium-137 has been found in American milk—in Montpelier, Vermont—for the first time since the Japan nuclear disaster began, according to data released by the Environmental Protection Agency late Friday.

    Milk samples from Phoenix and Los Angeles contained iodine-131 at levels roughly equal to the maximum contaminant level permitted by EPA, the data shows. The Phoenix sample contained 3.2 picoCuries per liter of iodine-131. The Los Angeles sample contained 2.9. The EPA maximum contaminant level is 3.0, but this is a conservative standard designed to minimize exposure over a lifetime, so EPA does not consider these levels to pose a health threat.

    The cesium-137 found in milk in Vermont is the first cesium detected in milk since the Fukushima-Daichi nuclear accident occurred last month. The sample contained 1.9 picoCuries per liter of cesium-137, which falls under the same 3.0 standard.


  202. Kettle1^2 says:

    Nom 205

    Even in the case of a cash purchase by the group wouldn’t you want to asset strip the property and encumber it through foreign entities like you described previously?

  203. Kettle1^2 says:


    Party on Garth!!!!

  204. Kettle1^2 says:

    Veto, Debt

    The question is simply how long before we see a well planned attempt on some of the CEO’s lives? It would be a fairly easy task if you are willing to die in the process. And probably only slightly more challenging if you want to survive the initial encounter.

  205. Kettle1^2 says:

    Juice 203

    Re 100 SV/h:

    The dose of radiation expected to cause death to 50 percent of an exposed population within 30 days (LD 50/30). Typically, the LD 50/30 is in the range from 400 to 450 rem (4 to 5 sieverts) received over a very short period.


  206. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “Then you tell me just exactly what’s going to stop them”
    First, the violence is unnecessary but more importantly, blaming the rating agencies for housing bubble is totally offbase. They were no more complicit than the lying real estate agents, deceitful mortgage brokers and gluttonously aloof homebuyers. After licking their wounds, the rating agencies are paranoid about missing the next shoe to drop. Do you really think they’re going to let the us default while on their AAA watch.

  207. Kettle1^2 says:


    if there was any real rule of law the ratings agencies would be shutdown and the executives in prison. It is documented that they were aware they were labeling dirty diapers as AAA investments.

  208. Neanderthal Economist says:

    220 I guess today you’re playing a self proclaimed legal expert, deciding who should go to jail. Or perhaps just parroting any doom you can find in your last google search? By your logic, all the homeowners who defaulted and were foreclosed should be thrown in jail too. The last time I checked, they can put aaa on anything they want, its a free country and its their business reputation on the line, so if theyre wrong, they pay the price. That’s capitalism in a democracy.

  209. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “if there was any real rule of law”
    What the heck is this supposed to mean? Are we living in red china?

  210. Kettle1^2 says:


    I haven’t claimed to be an expert in jack. However your opinion in this particular matter involves a slight conflict of interest dont you think?

  211. Neanderthal Economist says:

    217 im not going to respond to an assenine comment about people trying to kill ceos. I’ll let the authorities deal with garbage like that.

  212. Neanderthal Economist says:

    The conflict is about as relevant as yours to pharma.

  213. Kettle1^2 says:


    Care to point out the last time i claimed to be an authority on any given subject matter? How about the last time i pointed out that i have NO particular expertise in a subject i chose to comment on.

  214. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “Care to point out the last time i claimed to be an authority on any given subject matter?”
    Sure. See 220. You claim to know the law well enough to know who should go to jail. Plus you claim to understand the complexities of a cdo by calling them dirty diapers in hind sight.

  215. Lone Ranger says:


    Yes, hard as in shiny. Speaking of, I was with a # of hard owners (shiny) tonight, who are intrigued with the Nom Pound. They want to diversify into dirt. There are a # of questions; too many to go into now. That said, 150-200 per, is feasible; if it’s cash flow positive or flat (flat, if there is utilization). Email me.

  216. Lone Ranger says:

    “They were no more complicit than the lying real estate agents, deceitful mortgage brokers and gluttonously aloof homebuyers.”


    What about the counterfeiters at the fed, yield chasers and my favs; Wendy and Phil?

  217. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Lone, yes they should be in jail too, along with cast and crew from ‘flip this house’.

  218. Neanderthal Economist says:

    What about any home depot employee from 2003-2006? Shall we throw them in jail too? For peddling granite.

  219. Lone Ranger says:



    I agree w/Shore.

  220. Lone Ranger says:

    Neanderthal [231],

    “‘Lone, yes they should be in jail too, along with cast and crew from ‘flip this house’.”

    I don’t agree; the puppets don’t know better. They simply made the mistake of bending over after they dropped their keys. Innocent, but unrelenting consequences, no?

  221. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “the puppets don’t know better.”
    Fine, it’s to my point so I agree. Even if they knew, rating agencies were pawns in a larger scheme. And that’s the most conspiratorial version I can imagine.

  222. Lone Ranger says:

    “Even if they knew, rating agencies were pawns in a larger scheme.”


    You should know better. When the game is over, the king and the pawns go into the same box.

  223. yo'me says:

    Is the Market Overvalued?
    Stocks have rocketed from 2009 lows. Now two prominent market thinkers see two vastly different scenarios playing out. Who is right?

    The innovation of Mr. Shiller’s system is that it is designed to avoid distortions from short-term profit swings. Most Wall Street analysts compare stock prices to the previous year’s profits or to analysts’ predictions of future profits. Mr. Shiller takes an average of corporate profits over the previous 10 years. Long favored by sophisticated investors, that method smoothes out the business cycle, producing a measure of sustainable corporate profit that investors sometimes call normalized profit.

    On that basis, Mr. Shiller’s method shows the S&P 500 trading at 23 times profits, well above the historical average of 16. It doesn’t necessarily mean stocks are about to fall; the S&P 500 went to a record 44 times earnings during the dot-com bubble before collapsing in 2000. But today’s level isn’t far from the peak of 27.5 hit before stocks fell during the financial crisis of 2007-09. At the 2009 bottom, it went down to 13 before quickly pushing higher again.

    Alternative Calculations
    Mr. Bianco, who is bullish on stocks, says Prof. Shiller’s measure is inaccurate, and the Wall Street strategist has taken his criticism public. Over the past year, he has written two reports offering alternative calculations.

    Mr. Bianco says he began looking for ways to revise the Shiller numbers last year after a page-one article in The Wall Street Journal on the subject. Clients, he says, started using Mr. Shiller’s data to contest his bullish thesis.

    Mr. Bianco’s massaging shows the S&P 500 trading currently at about 14.5 times his own calculation of 10-year profits, a much more attractive level than Mr. Shiller’s 23 times profits.


  224. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “When the game is over, the king and the pawns go into the same box.”
    Wantanopolous, ain’t gonna happen brother. Besides why would the game end? it works fine.

  225. veets (219)-

    Not blaming any group entirely for the housing crash. Ratings agencies still don’t get it, though. Instead of rating credit, they are extortion gangs.

    Unfortunately, violence is necessary, as it’s the only thing that will stop these gangsters.

  226. veets (221)-

    With you, up until that “pay the price” stuff. The banksters and their accomplices have robbed the country dry, yet are rewarded for their crimes.

    “The last time I checked, they can put aaa on anything they want, its a free country and its their business reputation on the line, so if theyre wrong, they pay the price.”

  227. veets (231)-

    None of the crooks will ever go to jail. That’s why we have to finish them off.

  228. When a credit agency teaches an IB how to structure a CDO in order to gain AAA ratings, I don’t think that makes them a pawn.

  229. More specifically, ratings agencies showed IBs how much shit they could tamp into a CDO, how to structure the tranches to spread the fecal matter as thinly as possible, and still keep a AAA.

  230. yo'me says:

    Fox on 15th (a.k.a “The Washington Post”) Still Has Not Heard About the Recession
    Sunday, 10 April 2011 07:29

    They did it again! The Washington Post had a front page article devoted to the budget debate that never once mentioned the job loss that is expected to result from budget cuts at a point where the economy is still far below full employment.

    According to estimates from Mark Zandi, the original package put forward by the Republican leadership would have cost 700,000 jobs. Since the final package had cuts that were roughly two thirds as large, the implied job loss would be around 450,000. It is incredible that a major newspaper could discuss the budget without ever once mentioning its impact on the economy.

    The Post, which has long supported big cuts to Social Security and Medicare and other social programs, directly misrepresented reality to push its agenda. It told readers:

    “the battle was fought on turf far more hospitable to Republicans, given the country’s concerns about spending that contributed to the Democrats losing the House in November.”

    Every post-election poll showed that the main concern of voters last November was jobs. As in JOBS!!!!, the one item that is not mentioned once in this article. Instead, the article tells readers that:

    “The coming battle, which will be about fiscal priorities and society’s values as much as it is about controlling government spending.”

    The Post presents no evidence that the battle is about “society’s values.” Most obviously the battle is about redistributing trillions of dollars of income from ordinary workers to the health insurance industry and health care providers.

    According to the Congressional Budget Office, the public would have to pay an extra $20 trillion over the next 75 years (an amount that is approximately equal to 4 times the projected Social Security shortfall) if Representative Ryan’s plan for a Medicare voucher system is adopted. There may be questions of values here, but most immediately the question is whether we want to take money from low and middle income people and give it to these industries.

    Dean Baker

  231. yo'me says:

    Defaulting on the Debt Is Not the End of the World
    Saturday, 09 April 2011 18:28
    The NYT had a piece on the implications of the United States hitting its debt ceiling and running the risk of defaulting on its debt. The article exclusively presented the views of people who portrayed hitting the debt ceiling and defaulting on the debt as being an end of world scenario.

    It would have been useful to present the view of people who do not consider a default on the national debt to be the worst possible outcome. While there can be little doubt that a default on the U.S. debt would lead to a financial crisis and would likely permanently reduce the role of the U.S. financial industry in world markets, it is also likely the case that the United States would rebound and possible rebound quickly from a default.

    The experience of Argentina may be instructive in this respect. Argentina defaulted on its debt at the end of 2001. It economy fell sharply in the first quarter of 2002 but had stabilized by the summer and was growing strongly by the end of the year. By the end of 2003 it had recovered its lost output. Its economy continued to grow strongly until the world recession in 2009 brought it to a near standstill.

    While there can be no guarantee that the U.S. economy would bounce back from the financial crisis following a default as quickly as did Argentina, it’s unlikely that U.S. policymakers are too much less competent than those in Argentina.

    Readers should be made aware of the fact that countries do sometimes default and they can subsequently recover and prosper. Many people may consider the short-term pain stemming from a debt default to be preferable to the long-term costs that might come from policies adopted to prevent default.

    For example, if Congress were to approve a Medicare plan along the lines proposed by House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, this would be subjecting tens of millions of middle class retirees to a retirement without adequate health care insurance and potentially devastating medical bills. Plans being put forward to cut Social Security could have similar consequences. Compared to these outcomes, a financial crisis and the subsequent slump that follows may seem like a relatively small cost.

    It is also worth noting that two of the people whose views were presented in this article, Jamie Dimon, the CEO of J.P. Morgan and Robert Rubin, a former top executive at Citigroup, are both individuals whose situation is likely to make them view a debt default as an end of the world event. Both institutions would likely not survive a debt default. For the people whose wealth depends on the health of Wall Street financial firms, a default on the U.S. debt is probably one of the worst conceivable events in the world, however this group is tiny minority of the U.S. population.

  232. yo'me says:

    I agreed with the Fed and Bernank during the crisis about rescuing the big banks and its investors,the world stock market and its investors without thinking of unintended consequences.Now the rich got their money back, everybody is doing good except for the middleclass that is being pushed by the millions into poverty. I wish it can go back to that and just wipe out everybody.

  233. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “When a credit agency teaches an IB how to structure a CDO in order to gain AAA ratings,”
    Ratings agencies don’t give advice. The engineering ib geeks backed into the loopholes of the methodology. Rating agencies were guilty insofar as making record profit, if ditch didn’t do it, s&p would have etc etc.
    There are all sorts of financial products that didn’t survive the crisis… see ars, 2x etfs, ninja loans, 30 yr mortgage, cds, naked swaps and diversified mutual fund investing for examples. Should the rating agencies take responsibility for these failures too?

  234. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “None of the crooks will ever go to jail.”
    If we have to jail everyone responsible for the housing crisis, do you really think realtors shouldn’t be included? How much nj realtor commission during the last ten years was made off of perverting the american dream at the ground level? For that matter, the only difference between a cdo credit analyst and a realtor was that the realtor looked the victims in the eyes when they told their lies.

  235. Seymour says:

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