Lowest priced areas see largest declines in North Jersey

From the Record:

Home values fall faster in lower-priced areas

North Jersey’s lower-priced neighborhoods were hit harder by the housing downturn last year, as home values plummeted by 9.1 percent in Passaic County, while Bergen County saw a milder 1.9 percent drop.

The split reflected higher rates of foreclosures and unemployment in lower-income areas, as well as tighter mortgage standards for marginal buyers.

Bergen County’s median home value was $412,000 last year, while Passaic’s was $294,000, according to an analysis of sales data by The Record. Home values in the region have declined 15 to 20 percent since they peaked in 2007, and are back to the levels of 2004.

Even with these declines, some analysts say the national and regional markets have not yet hit bottom.

“While the housing market still has a pulse, it remains faint,” East Brunswick appraiser Jeffrey Otteau wrote in a recent report on the statewide real estate market.

The price drops have been painful for homeowners who bought at the market’s peak. Brian Berkowitz, a watchmaker, paid $420,000 for a Hawthorne home in 2006, and sold it last year for $350,000 after a move to Texas. He had to bring money to the closing to pay off the mortgage.

“Of course, I was upset,” said Berkowitz, 36. “That’s life. There’s nothing you can do about it.”

On the other hand, the lower prices offer opportunities for buyers. Dave and Kelly Maver, for example, looked to Passaic County when they decided to move from their town house in Garfield. They were expecting their third child and needed more room.

“We started to look in Bergen County, but there was nothing we could afford,” said Dave Maver, who teaches in Paterson. “Even in a down market, we couldn’t find anything under $400,000 that didn’t need considerable work.” They ended up spending $260,000 for an updated four-bedroom house in West Milford, near Upper Greenwood Lake.

But the biggest factor in Passaic County’s larger price drop is probably the housing distress in urban areas. Prices are down 35 to 52 percent in Paterson, Haledon, Passaic and Prospect Park since the peak of the real estate boom in the mid-2000s.

In Paterson, about half of all sales are either short sales or foreclosures, according to John Susani, broker/owner of Coldwell Banker Susani Realty in Paterson. These tend to sell at a steep discount to the market.

But the larger pattern is that lower-priced areas in both counties — such as Garfield, Wallington and Ridgefield in Bergen — have experienced the largest declines. At the same time, median prices rose last year in some wealthier communities in northern Bergen County, including Glen Rock, Allendale and Old Tappan.

Over the four-year course of the real estate downturn, prices have dropped 30 percent in North Jersey’s lowest-priced communities, compared with 20 percent in lower middle-class areas and 17 percent at the high end.

Otteau said that pattern is to be expected in a recession, which has more impact in what he calls “secondary” housing markets, which are less desirable than primary markets with easier commutes and high-ranked school systems. Homeowners in secondary markets tend to have lower incomes and are more vulnerable to layoffs when recession hits, Otteau said.

In both counties, the number of sales last year was less than half the level seen during the housing boom. Even with the boost of a federal home buyer’s tax credit that expired in 2010, about 6,000 homes sold last year in Bergen and 2,700 in Passaic, compared with up to 13,000 homes a year sold in Bergen and 6,300 in Passaic during the peak years.

Prices are likely to continue to decline in the area, especially in Passaic County for the rest of this year, in part because foreclosures remain a threat, Otteau predicted. While the volume of foreclosures has dropped over the past six months in the wake of questions over lenders’ handling of legal documents, those issues are likely to be resolved soon. That will restart the foreclosure engine, dumping more foreclosed properties on the market, Otteau said, especially in urban and rural areas.

“This could trigger a next round of price declines in those submarkets,” Otteau said.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Bubble, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

120 Responses to Lowest priced areas see largest declines in North Jersey

  1. 30 year realtor says:

    Part of the reason some of the “primary markets” have shown small increases in median price is due to the lack of foreclosure inventory hitting the market. With low sales volume a foreclosed POS or two in Allendale, Glen Rock or Old Tappan could potentially erase those gains.

    Paterson prices continue to fall fast. When doing BPOs in Paterson, new short sale listings are typically priced below recent comparable sales. Sales closing today already require allowance for a depreciation factor since the contract date because prices are falling that quickly.

  2. Mike says:

    Wait until one of those Glen Rockers has to foreclose and move into the same town their maid lives in. The snobs will really be in for culture shock.

  3. “We have a debt problem. And according to our elected leaders, the way to address that debt problem is to fight over some $30 billion in spending at the exact same time that unelected leaders (the Fed) are printing three times that amount (at least that we know of) to buy MORE US debt.”


  4. xroads says:

    2 mike
    what happened to good morning nj?

  5. Mike says:

    Sorry xroads… slight hangover Good Morning New Jersey!

  6. LWG says:

    Good Morning! Noticed this price decline in my Bergen Co.neighborhood…house came on 3 years ago at 970k…real POS….price dropped over 18 months finally sold at 848k…fast forward to today…house back on mkt…price? 785k…probably will sell about $750…no work done on that house in 20+ years and a floor plan that is one of the most undesirable ( fancy bi level) with a tiny enclosed kitchen and no decent way to expand house…oh..but that spring season open house will surely do the trick.

  7. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    Well grim says prices are down 25$ in Oradell since the peak, and from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge. Both blue ribbon Bergen Co towns whose regional high school ranks 27 best in the state (according to NJ monthly magazine), and those drops are not over yet. There also appear to be lots of houses in Glen Rock and Ridgewood in the 350 to low 400’s asking range, which is a big difference from a few years ago.

  8. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #7 Sorry down 25%

  9. InTheKnow says:

    So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) said, ” from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge”.

    WRONG! As usual, most of the local commentary on this blog is incorrect, and this ” So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b)” is 100% Wrong. River Edge IS NOT down 25% – it’s simply not true (from the reference point). For example, median sales price in River Edge is UP almost 15% from just last year – something very few communities can say.


    But why let the facts get in the way of a rant? But do people really believe this crap spewed on this blog? It strikes with me this blog is about a dozen people talking to themselves, likely bitter they’re not positioned or liquid enough to buy property this year or next.

    Lots of areas in NJ have lots of problems, but River Edge and Oradell ARE NOT among them. The slightest bit of point and click research bears this out. Just look at the facts, the properties that are selling in these 2 towns, the prices, and they ARE NOT 25% off of the peak years. This is factual information easy to document.

    Perhaps you should take your rant to West Orange, Orange, and Bloomfield.

  10. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    Looks like it got a little heated in here last night.

  11. 30 year realtor says:

    #9 InTheKnow – Are you basing your entire position on “point and click” research? I’ve been a broker in Bergen County since 1981. My days are spent doing broker price opinions for short sales and marketing bank owned property. Everyday I am in the trenches. My extensive research reveals that the opinion of So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) is far more based in reality than your own.

  12. InTheKnow says:

    I forgot, to show what a crock this blog is and this person What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b), can you support or legitimize or substantiate your statement, “from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge”? Can you or anyone bring integrity or legitimacy to the nonsense spewed here?

    On this blog, this fool, and the others here will say at lot of things, but you will not support, legitimize, defend, or substantiate this nonsense above floated as fact. You’ll avoid, divert, speak to other points….but most here don’t have the character or honesty to simply say the truth, “What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b)” does not know what they are talking about and flat out wrong, to the letter, of their speech.

  13. New in FL says:

    Mike #2
    There is a circa 2004 Argentine movie that covered that scenario. The English title is “Live-In Maid” (in Spanish “Cama Adentro”).

  14. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #9 In the Know: Grim is a realtor he posted numbers form the njmls on Friday that indicates that prices are down 25% from the peak. IMO if they are down 25% in Oradell, than they are down at least as much in River Edge. I have examples myself, and I am not a realtor. Also there are houses in RE with asking prices well below what they paid at peak. I am talking about nice streest like Elm and Madison to name just a few. I know the area well. There may be only 12 of us in here, but most of us know what we are talking about.

    Oh and this current River Dell funding issue will bring prices down even more in both towns. Time to get out of the denial stage. The real estate party is over in River Edge.

  15. InTheKnow says:

    30 year realtor, you’re another FRAUD. Why? You want people to believe you sans any factual data. You come on here and use language to describe yourself and not facts to support your commentary. That’s what makes you a fraud.

    Don’t use language to conjure credibility of your speech, show us facts. Sans that, you’re PT Barnum, a joke, a clown, and a fraud. You want people to not think and buy into your characterization of yourself sans fact. You’re a fraud until you bring factual content supporting your commentary.

  16. Juice X says:

    Re:#9 Don’t shoot the messenger. as far as you comment “likely bitter they’re not positioned or liquid enough to buy property this year or next”

    Your Guess is not likey anything, some of this blogs followers are liquid cash buyers who are simply looking to purchase a home based upon historic norms. We are watching the decline with a sense of relief we did not buy at bubble prices. You would be surprised of the cross section of people this blog is made up with, stick around you might learn something, or you could always swallow the red pill.


  17. InTheKnow says:

    So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b), You said, “So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) said, ” from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge”. Yet YOU DON’T share your calculations. Why not?

    I supplied factual data from Trulia. I can inundate you and this blog with a lot more. I don’t need to, it’s easy pickens to show much of the commentary on this blog is incorrect, flawed, and simply wrong.

    You see, that’s why this blog is a joke comprised of a collection of frauds. You talk a lot, you have every opportunity to support your commentary with facts and you don’t. Why? They don’t exist. Why? You’re wrong. It’s that simple. When put on the spot to put up and shut up….most here (1) divert and (2) use language to build themselves and their credibility sans facts. In sum, they shut up. That’s this blog in a nutshell. A collection of people that buy into each others speech sans facts.

    On this blog the operating code is “don’t let the facts get in the way of a rant” and “no matter how unsupported the commentary is, accept it as accurate”. What a joke and collection of clowns here. Again, you can support your speech, anyone can come and prop your comment up with facts. Why has not that happened?

  18. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    12 In the know. I will not do your work for you, but I will point you in the right direction. Last week I posted several examples which you can go back and look at, with the links to back them up. But just to give you some idea:

    A house price reduced to 300k; sold in 2002 for 359K. (Not a dump on a nice quiet street in heart of town.

    A house on the same block as the Library ( just to show you I know the area) sold for 510K in 2007;listed for 409K.

    Another house (busy street) sold for 360k in 2005, listed for 289K. I have more examples, but time for you to do your own home work.
    A house

  19. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #17 IN the Know: If all you are using is Trulias, and you are incapable of interperting and extrapolating the data, well that says it all.

  20. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #17 I The Know: Perhaps when grim (one of the 12) checks in today. He will provide you the stas for River Edge from peak to present. If he is not around, I suggest you check in periodically and he will provide the stats.

  21. >>>So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:
    April 10, 2011 at 10:23 am

    #17 IN the Know: If all you are using is Trulias, and you are incapable of interperting and extrapolating the data, well that says it all.<<

    Damn cheapskate corncob lover

  22. gary says:


    Oradell Stats (NJMLS)

    1/1/2005 thru 3/31/2005
    Average Sold Price – $ 618,357

    1/1/2011 thru 3/31/2011
    Average Sold Price – $ 496,152 (Down 20%)

    Good luck with your Trulia bullsh1t. Keep huffing that koolaid powder.

  23. InTheKnow says:

    So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b), you have not provided a single fact supporting your comment, “from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge”. Let’s be clear, you have ZERO factual data supporting this statement.

    What you’ve done is rely on (1) cherry picking a couple of cases (2) the cases are based on your word, your speech, NOT identified properties, NOT on confirmed and easy verifiable sales prices. This can all be fabricated. You inability to support your broad based statement with a single fact illustrates what a FRAUD and joke you are…to anyone with a brain.

    I am not talking about asking prices, or reductions or anything other than CLOSING in contract sales prices. I have not asked you to do my homework. I have asked you to provide some factual content to support your commentary and bring integrity to your speech. You have failed to do that. I’ve thoroughly illustrated to all you’re a fraud.

  24. gary says:

    Another 20% yet to go. The f*cking truth hurts.

    tick… tick… tick… tick…

  25. relo says:

    17. Yes, prices are up and that little bugaboo demand now exceeds peak. Click your heels, close your eyes and repeat “there’s no place like Bergen”.

  26. morpheus says:

    please do not feed the troll (in the know.. . . hey that rhymes with troll)!

    Nom has a point from the prior thread that all of us should heed: check out the land use regulations regarding the property you many buy. I have narrowed my search down to two towns based on good schools and land use regulations.

    When I get the property I desire, I plan to have some rabbits, chickens and , eventually, a goat. Most towns have their land use regulations on-line and they are easy to understand.

    Nompound: does anyone have any experience farming? If not, I would advise prospective members to read up on the subject. “Storey” publishes excellent guides to raising livestock. . . I have been buying and reading various titles.

    For those of us planning to raise some of our own food via animals, you better figure out how to dispose of the manure. I have read some interesting threads on blue soldier flies’ ability to devour lots of manure and use their grubs as a food source.

    The only problem with that is that you allegedly cannot feed chickens the grubs if grubs ate the chicken manure. However, if grubs were dried out to 55 digs C, then they can be used to feed the chickens. Question: how would dehydration at a high temperature kill pathogens and parasite eggs? Trying to get my head around this.

    Postings yesterday about sussex GTG are disturbing. Can’t help any of you if you get into trouble: my involvement with the criminal law only occurs when the courts give me a pro-bono case involving domestic violence of violation of probation cases. However, the idea of drinking with Clot is appealing. . . .. perhaps a bourbon tasting?

    Well, got to go. . . . another working weekend.

    Please note that no attempt was made at proofreading. . . .too damn tired!

  27. InTheKnow says:

    Whoa, Wait a Minute Everyone, “So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) said, “Perhaps when grim (one of the 12) checks in today. He will provide you the stas for River Edge from peak to present.”

    Why should anyone wait or rely on that? After all, you have “CALCULATIONS”, right? Well that’s at least what you said, isn’t it? Why not simply cut and paste and present YOUR calculations?

    Remember, you said, ” from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge”. I am showing everyone how much of a fraud you are, YOU HAVE NO CALCULATIONS, do you? And this is what makes you and this blog ridiculous.

    That’s my point. You have no calculations, you don’t have a single fact supporting your commentary. Here you are now asking for help from the moderator/host to help you with “your calculations”. What a joke this place is…and you all believe this crap? lol.
    Have a productive day all, I have money to earn.

    Few here have the character to come out and laugh at you and this nonsense you spew.

  28. >>You have failed to do that. I’ve thoroughly illustrated to all you’re a fraud.<<

    Yes, this is well known about this damn cheapskate 3b. The guy admitted here that he's so damn cheap, that he considers toilet paper an expensive "luxury". Someone who thinks like that can not be taken seriously.

  29. gary says:

    River Edge – sold for $525,000 in 2006 currently asking $499,000 and sitting over 3 months on the market. This was the very first house I clicked on. This, according to… ahem…. Trulia’s data:


  30. gary says:

    The 2nd house I clicked on – SOLD FOR $510 IN 2005, CURRENTLY ASKING FOR $409,000! The town? River Edge. I have nothing further, your honor.


  31. gary says:


  32. Mike says:

    New 13 Kind of like Joe Pesci in “The Super”?

  33. gary says:

    tick… tick… tick… tick…

  34. Mike says:

    Relo 25 Yeah Bergen Kansas

  35. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #27 I showed you several examples, and the links are available, go back and look, from last week. Also exactly what data have you provided, Trulia?? Big deal!! If you are so into on line home value providers, then you can check zillow.com which will show that from peak in 2007, until December 2010, prices in River Edge are down roughly 18% ( I believe it is greater than that). Do you think River Edge or Oradell are in some kind of bubble protected wrap,and prices cannot fall in those towns. Rather than name call, I will simply say than that you are incredibly naieve.

    I also told you but you ignore the fact that the moderator; a realtor provided the stats that Oradell is down 25% from peak. SInce I am not a realtor, I simply suggested that he might provide the evidence for RIver Edge. Another poster (a realtor) makes a comment and you dismiss him outright. Why??

    Also why so upset?? As you say there are only 12 people here, so why the name calling (fraud). I appear to have hit a sore spot.

    If the moderator provides the evidence and I am wrong, than I will offer you my apologies. In the meantime however, that does not alter the examples that I have provided you.

  36. gary says:

    It strikes with me this blog is about a dozen people talking to themselves, likely bitter they’re not positioned or liquid enough to buy property this year or next.

    Wanna make a bet?

  37. Michelle says:

    What a dumba$$ – A teacher in Paterson tries to find a home in Bergen County and couldn’t afford $400,000.

    Uhmmmm, maybe try and buy where you can afford..

    Too bad, my husbnad was smart enough to work for the NJ Teacher’s Union. He collects dues from idiot teachers who succumb to our demands and we can afford prime Bergen. Idiot.

  38. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    This house just dropped the price to 419K. Sold in 06 for 430K


  39. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:
  40. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:
  41. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    Townhouse in River Edge sold for 490K in 2007 closed at 399K in March.


  42. gary says:


    Look at my post above at No. 30. It sold for 510K in 2005, currently asking 409K.

  43. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #42 gary I saw that one. Posted it last week, nice house all redone, on a nice block.

  44. d2b says:

    Found this today in the Philadelphia Inquirer. Says that the shore has 31 months of condos for sale. I think it’s higher because there are a number of bank owned properties not on the MLS. Plus I know a few 4 and 6 units places that use one MLS listing. The one on my street is 10 units under two MLS listings.

  45. RentL0rd says:

    In the [whatever],
    There is certainly a little hyperbole on both sides, but as a new comer to this blog, you will lose your own credibility by calling folks here fraud. You just have not been around long enough to make any claims.

    I have been following this blog for almost 4 years. I learnt a lot. Met a lot of folks here for real. Avoided some big mistakes. True, you need to take some of the comments with a pinch of salt, but house prices are still not realistic. Just because there are suckers who still buy houses does not mean that house prices will go up forever.

    I can go on.. but it’s pointless to blame each other – facts are facts.

  46. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Don’t let those price declines get in the way of In the knows position. Re 101 doing a cameo for support, great Sunday morning entertainment. By the way 3b 10 yes Veto going hard core on Kettle, surprised they sometimes disagree but this was a beyond the pale. Veto lighten up buddy.

  47. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #46 Sad to see that. I do not know kettle personally, but always found him to be thoughtful and flexible.

  48. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #46 Mike: In the Know appears to be incredibly defensive. Denial??

  49. Fabius Maximus says:

    My new babysitter is a college kid that drives a Merc. Her car is nicer than mine.

    “there’s no place like Bergen”.

  50. Lone Ranger says:

    “We have a debt problem. And according to our elected leaders, the way to address that debt problem is to fight over some $30 billion in spending at the exact same time that unelected leaders (the Fed) are printing three times that amount (at least that we know of) to buy MORE US debt.”


    There is a raging inferno and simpletons are arguing whether to extinguish it with a water pistol or a bucket of water.

  51. Lone Ranger says:

    “It strikes with me this blog is about a dozen people talking to themselves, likely bitter they’re not positioned or liquid enough to buy property this year or next.”

    This is very amusing. Who’s the imbecile?

  52. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #29 Gary The new listing is over 3 months. It has really been on the market for over a year. Goes on comes off, you know the deal.

  53. gary says:

    The “real” pros come on this blog thinking they’re going to one-up everyone and not only do they get humbled, their carcass gets burned and forced fed through a f*cking rock grinder.

  54. stan says:

    Its been a while since a moron like in the know has popped on the board.

    He did, and was summarily crushed, only to go back to his hole. He really is desperate and you can tell he laments his own financial position a bit.

    Kind of remeinded me of Frank a bit.

  55. Mikeinwating says:

    3b 48 Agent,bag-holder who knows, this puppy is forgone conclusion. Denial yup.
    3b 47 I do and your assessment is right on. Maybe Veto was having a very bad day.
    They have worked on charts together in the past, I find it strange.

    BC “We have a debt problem. And according to our elected leaders, the way to address that debt problem is to fight over some $30 billion in spending at the exact same time that unelected leaders (the Fed) are printing three times that amount (at least that we know of) to buy MORE US debt.”
    The hemming & whoring over this minuscule amount while the fed back doors us is a sure sign of our coming demise.

  56. cooper says:

    trulia? thats it? thats what your hanging your case on? sans case.
    next you’ll be quoting larry yun another douche like yourself.

    BTW – definition of rant – see posts 9,12,15,17,23, & 27
    definition of douche – look in mirror

  57. Mikeinwating says:

    Gary free for lunch Friday? Was thinking we could meet half way between Bergen & Sussex. Not to worry folks we will not get into a fight with persons unknown nor kidnap Moose, although we may get a little tipsy. It is nice to know the science department has hashed out disposal of said they are always up for a challenge. All in good fun & all that. It does seem the law department is running for the hills, can’t say I blame them.

    Cooper, don’t hold back!

  58. Mikeinwaiting says:

    I am missing an i! More coffee.

  59. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Yes Trulia the undisputed source for the Re market. LOL

  60. InTheKnow says:

    Okay – I’m back. In reading response, still NO FACTS. No one has provided anything supporting So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b), statement, “from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge”.

    Cherry picking a case here, a case there means ZERO in face of the facts. And the fact is in River Edge, NJ the median sales price of a home from Jan’11-Mar’11 is $479,000, UP almost 15% from last year. But the point remains, $479,000 IS NOT 25% down from the peak of ’03/’04/’05/’06/’07 or any of the peak years.

    At the end of the day this person So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) (1) has NO calculations, contrary to what they stated, (2) no one on this sorry blog can jump in an support this crap spewed by So What/Who Cares!! (formerly 3b), (3) and you have to be a fool to believe sales prices in River Edge, NJ (NOT asking, actual contracted sales prices are down 25%). It’s not true, and there’s no data supporting it to be a valid assertion, quite the contrary, the prices (as pointed out) are UP.

    Stick your collective heads in a hole in the ground if you like. Numbers, the facts, don’t lie. You fools “cherry pick” as if that means a f#&’ing thing to anyone. I can also post actual sales of properties that have gone into contract in River Edge in 2011, clearly showing prices, actual sales prices are not 25% off any peak year. No, they’re HIGHER. Deny the facts all you like, they’re real, they’re numbers, you can’t spin’em.

  61. Morpheus says:

    #57: WTF

    The law dept. is not running to the hills. I merely pointed out the fact that I am not a criminal lawyer (there is a pun in there . . .somewhere). I do not have any experience with homicide cases.

    Trolls are so amusing (not you mike). Mr. Troll, are you now going to suggest that there was no bubble in real estate? You sound like my former real estate agent.

  62. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Morph, Nom also was like can not go there. Just kidding anyway which you may have surmised, I understand you guys have to watch what you post.

  63. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #60 In the Know Now you are getting reaaly nast and completely delusional. If you believe that prices have increased 15% from last year in River Edge than you are really showing your ignorance.

    You either bought at the peak, or you HELOCd the h@ll out of your house and are now underwater. Even the biggest cheerleader local realtor would say you are smoking crack.

    1.You wanted examples of significant price drops, you got em, from Trulia.
    2. Njmls stats for Oradell are down 25% from peak, a fact posted on Friday from a realtor. (which you ignored)
    3. zillow.com indicates that prices form peak through December of 2010 are down 18%. (which you ignored)
    4. Almost 20 new listings have come on the market in RE in the last 3 weeks, typical Spring selling season, or something else.
    5. More than half of those listings are asking in the 300K to low400K range a far cry from the day when a 3 bed 1 bath cape or colonial sold for 500k. Keep in mind those are asking prices.
    6. As per your Trulia, there are 24 houses in River Edge that are in some stage of foreclosure (not counting shadow inventory).
    7. Average property taxes now for a starter house in RE are over 10K and more, with no end in sight. First time home buyers in this poor economic environment simply cannot afford those taxes.
    8. The school funding issue is a major problem for both towns. If it were not such an issue there would not be over sized signs around town telling residents to vote no.

    You can call me all the names you want, but it does not change the facts. I cannot help it if you are afraid of the truth.

  64. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #53 The clown quotes trulia, and cannot eveni nterpert the data. He/She thinks prices are up over 15% in RE in a year. One thing to tell me I am wrong about prices being down. But to come on the board with a handle called IN THE KNOW, and then quote that prices are up over 15%!!!!!!

  65. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “This is very amusing. Who’s the imbecile?”
    ‘InTheKnow’ is ‘re101’, and very entertaining. You can tell he is joking around because his entire logic and argument is at the third grade level, spotted with exclamation points.

  66. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “Lighten up buddy”
    Mike. I like kettle, it wasn’t personal, we disagree all the time. Besides, the disagreement was between me and debt before Ket jumped in with a bucket full of vaguery and the worst timing in the world.

  67. Neanderthal Economist says:

    60. Do you really believe prices are up? And are you seriously using trulia as your data? I feel rediculous even engaging you because im almost 100% sure this is a joke.

  68. Juice X says:

    Housing Sales Velocity in Oradell is averaging 4 homes a month for the last year. Back in 2005 it was somewhere around 25. Hope the realtors trying to make a living in that burg like eating friskies!

  69. InTheKnow says:

    63, So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) all your represented points are avoidance and you’re speaking around the issue and not to it (your statement). This is your desparate tact as you have nothing to support your assertion, and why? it’s not true. You have nothing, zero, no data supporting your commentary as factual when you say, “from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge”.

    You don’t have calculations, remember…..and what you call “Facts 1-8” is your diversion, your clutter, your effort to create ‘smoke’ and not have to speak to the issue. Your so called “Fact 1” says, “You wanted examples of significant price drops, you got em, from Trulia.” NO!, you’re wrong, I never wanted examples of significant price drops. I never asked for that, this is something you’ve conjured as it’s all you can speak to and it does not speak to the issue. (again, the avoidance of a FRAUD).

    I did not ask for examples of significant price drops. You made that up, this entire blog knows that. All I wanted was ONE thing. Data supporting your statement, “from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge”. That’s all.

    You don’t have to tell me about the foreclosures, the price drops, the mayor, the parks, the schools, blah blah blah of River Edge. Show me the facts supporting your statment. All you have to do is support with data your statement, ” “from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge”.

    That’s what you can’t do, and why you’re a fraud, the entire blog can’t support it, you bozos point to Oradell (which is unrelated to your comment). You specifically claim ” “from my own calculations prices are down at leat 25% in River Edge”.

    Speak to that, only that, and not around that, can you? I did not think so.

  70. Neanderthal Economist says:

    InTheKnow may be OutOfTheLoop but he is probably the most aggressive troll this board has ever experienced, calling out the whole lot, all 12, in multiple posts one right after the next. He makes Frank seem reasonable. I would even say he’s more aggressive than DolphinBeater and that guy was a handful.

  71. Shore Guy says:


    I thought it was bi by another name. Doesn’t matter.

  72. morpheus says:

    more importantly than a troll:

    with much sadness and grief, I must announce the passing of our chest freezer (which we got for free on Craigslist). This chest freezer was used to store homemade beer. It will be sorely missed.

    However, with speed that is uncharacteristic of moi, a 8.8 Cu ft freezer has been delivered from lowes. Since it had a slight dent, they reduced the price to $200.00 (orig. price $267), delivered it yesterday and removed the old 12 cu ft. freezer. MAN MUST PROTECT BEER1

  73. Neanderthal Economist says:

    What makes this troll unique is the rate at which he repeats himself. Its hard to have a disagreement with someone who says everything three times before a word can be had edgewise. Its like he’s trying to win the argument by hypnotizing 3b.

  74. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Of course, the most distinguishing feature of this breed of troll is his inability to read comps. Usually posting a few comp killers will buy you some time when confronted by, or defending yourself from, a troll. But in this case the ultra aggressive alpha troll doesn’t hesitate or go back on his heels at all, not even with a 40% off peak example.

  75. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #70 I guess when you are underwater and over extended, you can get that way.

  76. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Good move Morph, you freeze beer? Got to try that. I tried red nectar beer this weekend, northern california. Like sierra nevada with more freshness and flavor.

  77. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “I guess when you are underwater and over extended, you can get that way.”
    Very true. But frank could at least read comps though, right? He used to post them every week. Of course half of them were comp killers, so maybe not.

  78. willwork4beer says:


    Chest freezer? Are you making Eisbock?


    Econ, how is the Red Nectar? Saw it in the store but haven’t had the pleasure yet. Currently working on Flying Dog’s latest mix pack: Stray Dog.

  79. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #69 Please you are off your meds. I stated from what I have seen and prices that I have been following, that I believe prices are down 25% in River Edge. More so now that it has been confirmed that prices are down 25% in Oradell.

    That was confirmed by a realtor form the njmls. Only Realtors have access to that information. You have ignored this fact since the discussion started this morning.

    I also bought to your attention the fact that zillow.com indicates that prices are down in River Edge 18% from peak to December of 2010. Can you not check that yourself. Are you asking me to provide you the zillow link?

    I also stated that once the stats from the njmls are confirmed by the Realtor on the board (who is the only one who has access to those stats), that if I am wrong I would offer my apologies.

    You come here with trulia and make an incredibly stupid statment that prices are up over 15% in the last year!!!! You cannot even interpert the data that you claim backs your asserton.

    Seriously it is shocking that you could make such a statement. Hopefully you are a minority of one in RE, because if you are not and there are others who believe the same nonsense, than that is truly frightening.

    So as of now you claim that prices are up 15% in a year. I claim they are down 25% I provide zillow which indicates as I said that prices are down 18%. I think at this point I win.

    I point out those other issues simply to illustrate a number of things that as taxes continue to increase in town, prices will continue to drop. Young first time home buyers cannot afford RE taxes; simple as that.

    The funding issue although it will be defeated by RE will continue to be challenged by Oradell,and will ultimatley be decided by the state Supreme Court.

    One (with the exception of yourself) could reasonably argue that Oradell will nevrr get all that it wants, but ultimatley the funding formula will change, and more of the tax burden will be shifted to RE. Also all the multi-family residential development that may or may not come to pass will also increase school taxes even more. All in all not good.

  80. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #77 Yep. Oh and frank was entertaining.

  81. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #67 I think that statement has to be one of the most shocking I have heard!!

  82. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Red nectar is worth the ten bucks per six pack. My advice is to try the regular before you dabble with the ipa or other flavors because you get an appreciation for what they can do with just a plain old basic ale.

  83. willwork4beer says:

    Thanks, Econ.

    BTW, if like a hoppy ale, give Victory’s Headwaters Pale Ale a try. New release. Very good stuff.

  84. willwork4beer says:

    “if YOU like”

    Too much Flying Dog…

  85. Mikeinwaiting says:

    WW4beer Liked Samuel Smiths Pale ale Any rec for something similar /better, not a beer drinker so I know very little. Hoppy this that all Greek to me.

  86. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Thinking about taking ride over to my Liq. store very large beer selection, I made hot wings so I need some beer.

  87. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Thx, beer advice from anyone with that handle can’t be too far off

  88. morpheus says:

    76: freeze beer? nah. . . got a johnson controls external controller for the freezer. Keeping the temp at 46 deg. F. Only use the freezer to store beer and lagering.

    Should try it for ale making….Have a little headache. had three glasses of belgian trippel last nite. Think the fermenation temps were too high.. . .too much fusel alcohol.

  89. morpheus says:

    86: I have had landshark lager. perfect for hot wings. Not a great beer but goes well with hot wings.

  90. gary says:


    Get my email from grim and we can meet for lunch.

  91. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Morph thx

  92. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gary Ok, grim send me Gary’ s email please.

  93. gary says:

    I went to a few open houses today. One in particular, in the Westwood/Hillsdale area was hosted by a realtor I meet a few years ago. A very, very nice person who has been sending me an automated list everyday. Anyway, she told me, without a doubt, that the market is horrible and we are still heading down in price. She said, do not believe anything otherwise. No secret here, we all know this. She said some sellers are still in La La land but regardless, prices are still heading south. She said the peak of the market was absolute madness with the loan give-aways but the rules have totally changed and there is still more declines to come.

  94. Fabius Maximus says:

    In the know the problem here is that you are looking at Median price, and that is a garbage statistic. At this point of the year with low sales volume for the metric. With 15 sales the 7th will get reported as the median. Its like looking at baseball batting averages on the first week of the season when they are batting 600 and calling numbers for the year. While River Edge may have a Median of $479K, it has an average list price of $459K which suggests that while some higher end sales may be happening, but there is a boatload of inventorysitting at the lower end that is not moving in proportion. As sales progress through the year, that median number will change, with $509K the median for peak, I would suggest it is going down to last years $409K

  95. willwork4beer says:


    Samuel Smith’s Pale Ale is the Classic English Pale Ale. Doesn’t get much better than that. Beware American Pale Ales as they tend to be much hoppier (hops contribute bitter, fruity, citrusy, and/or flowery taste/ aroma).

    Agree with Morph that what you want with wings is a light lager. I think I would go with Weihanstephaner.

  96. Neanderthal Economist says:

    If InTheKnow simply thought that this board was too negative, we’d all probably agree but the fact that he’s claiming 15% increases you puts him in a whole other level of dilusion. I don’t even think we had 15% increases during the bubble.

  97. willwork4beer says:

    A few of the sales that Trulia is including above that median appear to be gut jobs/ tear downs. Houses sold in 2010 and again in early 2011 at 2x 2010 price. Maybe 3b can ring in on what is going on re: Fifth Ave. in River Edge.

  98. morpheus says:

    95: good choice. . .however, with really hot wings, I think a finer lager would be a waste. IMHO

  99. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #94 Fabius: So you ahd to go and do his homework for him/her. Perhaps IN THE KNOW should change their handle to HASN’T A CLUE!!!

  100. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #9& Quite a few tear downs on Fifth Ave over the years. There are 2 or 3 at the moment that are for sale; with price reductions of course.

  101. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #96 The most I saw during the bubble was 10%.

  102. willwork4beer says:

    98. Morph

    Good point. If you’re just looking for something to put out the fire, you’re probably not tasting it.

  103. willwork4beer says:

    Interesting that the 479K median sale (1/11 – 3/11) in River Edge was itself a comp killer. Last sale was in 10/2007 @ 525.5K. Loss of 46.5K plus sales commission, etc. in 39 months.


  104. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “Prices are down 35 to 52 percent in Paterson, Haledon, Passaic and Prospect Park since the peak of the real estate boom in the mid-2000s.”
    Grim, do these claims reconcile with cs metro ny low tier. I don’t recall their being such a large discrepancy in your chart.

  105. So What /Who Cares!! (formerly 3b) says:

    #103 How ironic is that!! Bye bye IN THE KNOW!!!!

  106. Mike says:

    Good Night New Jersey

  107. Pat says:

    I love this thread.

    Thanks to the person who is entertaining us by creating Know-It-All. I live for instigators because each time I imagine that it’s Just JB – then I watch you guys get all pissed off. Gary, you’re my big old yellow cat chasing the laser light.

    It kind of confirms my mind-set that men are dupes and women are superior and need to protect the men.

    Anyways, I have this neighbor with long gray hair who has owned her place for like four husbands and two separate families. So, I sit out front and enjoy the sun sometimes. Lock me up for my willingness to be seen. The problem is, she can’t stand that I rent. Every time, it’s the same chat. No, we aren’t buying, and no these places are not worth what X has them on the market for. Ain’t interested.

    The key is if you can’t show what you bought, then don’t say what it’s worth.

  108. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Pat trying to bait the men some more.

  109. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Thanks for all the beer info guys. In the end bought some sangria washed down the hot wings fine, find beer to filling.

  110. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [62] Mike

    An attorney in Illinois was disbarred last year for posting an ad on Craigslist that was sexually suggestive. It was very clearly intended as a joke, and did not violate any laws, but no one is going to protest that a lawyer got jobbed in a PC drive-by.

    The Board overseers in Northeastern states are partisan political hacks, and will F with you for fun. No need to give them a reason to come after you.

  111. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [229][prior thread] Ranger,

    I will try to get your email from Grim. In the meantime, mine is nomdeplumenj@gmail.com.

    [215] [prior thread] Kettle +2

    Yes, but you have to own an asset in order to equity-strip it. Cannot own it outright in a foreign entity without running headlong into FIRPTA. Better to have domestic “owners” that owe money to foreign “investors” who are able to take advantage of the portfolio interest exemption.

    BTW, that is why there is a requirement that there be enough owners–helps to avoid control issues, and if structured properly, you also avoid attribution issues.

  112. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Sawx take two of three from NY in the Fens. Sweet!

  113. Juice go says:

    Kettle1 – gotta love Arnie, he is onto his own demonstrations.


  114. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [107] pat,

    Okay, ‘ll bite.

    Pat, there are at least four or five things that you can do better than me, and nearly all of them involve body parts I don’t have. On any other point, I don’t concede. Not that I can’t be bested in individual tasks, but I don’t recognize superiority by gender, especially after I have regularly shown up the fairer sex in its traditional strengths.

  115. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Aurgh. Celtics continue to suck, losing badly to Lebron and Co.

    And on that depressing note, good night New Jersey.

  116. Juice go says:

    re # 107- Pat “men are dupes and women are superior and need to protect the men. ”
    Hense the notion of the better half. My better half has protected me a few times from ego bruising incidents, and that is one of the many reasons I married her. Funny thing is the timing, seems somehow correlated to the cycle of the moon.

  117. me@work says:

    Hi from the Pit… it’s been a long coupla weeks… :(

    Gonna try and catch up on the last few days worth though… I miss you guys!


  118. Jina says:

    Nice tips! I have been hunting for some thing like that for a time today. Thank you!

  119. Kaylee says:

    Amazing blog post, I am viewing back again on a regular basis to watch out for refreshes.

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