Housing in the post-boomer world

From HousingWire:

Housing goes back in time as boomers hit retirement

Housing will never return to pre-crisis levels with baby boomers aging and the next generation lacking the population numbers to support the credit and homeownership expansion that occurred in the decades leading up to the credit meltdown, Christopher Whalen of Tangent Capital Partners said Friday.

While speaking to an audience at HousingWire’s REperform Summit, a mortgage servicing conference held in Dallas, Whalen said the U.S. economy since the 1980s managed to substitute spending in other areas by leaning on housing.

“This is significant because if you look at the factors that drove housing, the biggest one was the baby boom,” Whalen said. “The population growth after the boom basically drove consumption, and we had this remarkable increase in demand for housing.”

But Whalen said the boomers heading into retirement are leaving smaller populations behind them, making it unlikely housing will ever get back to the peak levels experienced before the 2008 financial crisis.

“When you are looking at things like employment and job growth, you have to reduce your expectations of what you see in the future because the demographics are just not there,” Whalen said.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Recovery, National Real Estate, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

151 Responses to Housing in the post-boomer world

  1. Fast Eddie says:

    No pony for you.

  2. Comrade Nom Deplume in PA says:

    And sloppy seconds too. Feh.

  3. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  4. Mike says:

    Student loan debt is missing from the last paragraph

  5. Comrade Nom Deplume in PA says:

    The lead isn’t news. I recall articles on that topic going back 10-15 years. That was one reason I tried to get spouse to buy vacation place but rent primary. She wouldn’t go for it. We’d be so much richer today if she had. Sigh.

  6. Mikewaited says:

    Get those serfs buying no matter what it takes, just what Wal-Mart shoppers need.

    ” Wal-Mart (WMT) and American Express (AXP) plan an 8:30 a.m. call for a financial services announcement that could point a way for the cash-transaction-heavy retailer to reach out to low-income shoppers with new credit offerings. The two previously partnered on providing Amex’s low-cost prepaid Bluebird card, participation that Wal-Mart ended this summer based on poor sales.

  7. Mikewaited says:

    Nom where you in on this!
    ” Pfizer’s (PFE) aggressive tax-avoidance schemes are under scrutiny from the SEC, which has sent the phama giant a letter asking how it was able to earn record profit abroad and losses domestically despite generating 40% of its sales in the U.S. Pfizer’s trick is to park its cash in low-tax jurisdictions.”

  8. Mikewaited says:

    Futures board all red & open markets to, did Ben take the weekend off.

  9. Fast Eddie says:

    Gotta leave for work; if I get a chance later, I’ll tell you about the house we saw over the weekend with gray, painted, kitchen cabinets and three closets for bedrooms. All at the low asking price of $698,000.

  10. grim says:

    6 – Providing banking services for the “unbankable” is big business these days. I worked with some of the original startups in this space. You’d be amazed at the size of the demographic that either can’t get a basic checking account, or can’t afford it, let alone a debit card. Most all in this category would never qualify for a credit card, no ssn/id, no address/home, trapped in overdrafts, inability to divulge id (yes, wanted criminals). Interesting approach, as the demographic was widely untouched by the larger banks and issuers, until now.

  11. 1993 House Buyer says:

    For Gary: (I was so cracking up!)

    Tyler York lives in a comfortable space above a three-car garage. He has his own entrance and kitchenette stocked with Capri Sun and frozen bagels. There’s a queen-sized bed, a plush leather couch and a large, flat-screen TV. The land around the house is wooded with old oaks and maples, and the yard is curated by the former president of the local garden club. There’s an in-ground pool out back with an HGTV-inspired slide.

    It’s a great life, and none of it belongs to him.

    His actual possessions, the ones he would take if he moved, could fit in the trunk of his 1998 Volvo: his clothes, a half-dozen pairs of shoes, a laptop, a tennis racket, a few baseball bats, a gun that belonged to his grandfather, cheap sunglasses, a bottle of Yves Saint Laurent cologne.

    He has three part-time jobs, none of which require regular hours in an office, most of which can be juggled from the couch. Tyler is not beholden to a cubicle, to clutter, an apartment lease or plans for next Tuesday night.

    “I’m still kind of in that process of experimenting,” he says, wondering “which avenue is the proper one to go down.”

    He could be talking about work, where to live, life itself: “I don’t want to jump into something and have that be, like, a tie-down.”

    He is lucky, he knows. The garage apartment is attached to his parents’ house. The gardener is his mom. In exchange for chores, his parents do not ask for rent or demand he find his own health insurance. They tell him they love him every day. He’s fit and tan from hours of golf and tennis, every short sun-bleached-brown hair in place. He gets along with his brothers. His girlfriend is adorable. His car is reliable. His debt is paid off.

    If there’s a complaint from him — and really, there’s not — it’s that the wireless Internet connection doesn’t reach the pool.

    Still, this is not how he pictured life at 25. Like a lot of millennials, he once saw a clear track: college, career, home, family. Job plans were derailed by the economy, but even as full-time opportunities arose, Tyler turned away from that path. In a noisy, crowded, competitive life, he discovered a quiet moment between youth and adulthood and decided to linger.

    snapshot:

    The Millennial
    Name: Tyler York
    Age: 25
    Residence: Bedford, New Hampshire, above his parents’ garage
    Marital Status: Unmarried, has a girlfriend
    Family: Son of high school sweethearts Don and Gail York; fourth of five brothers
    Education: Bachelor of Science in athletic training from Plymouth State University
    Occupation: Three part-time jobs, none involving athletic training
    Finances: No debt currently; calls himself a prolific saver
    Religion: Christian, but not religious
    Hobbies: Playing tennis, baseball and flag football; hanging out by parents’ pool; spending time with family
    Most-worn items: iPod Nano watch funded through Kickstarter, Pura Vida bracelets, rubber bracelet that reads “Together We Can Change the World”
    Political affiliation: Independent
    Vote in 2008: Barack Obama

    This pause could last another few months, maybe another year. Not forever. He allows he might want the apartment and the office job someday, or even soon. He’s not sure about the rest.

    Sometimes, he gets in the car for long drives to nowhere in particular. Once he might have considered it a waste of time, but lately he thinks he gets a lot done when he lets his mind drift: work, his little brother’s college decision, his friends’ money worries, politics, the world, right and wrong, what’s next.

    “What’s going on?” he wonders. “Am I really happy?”

    http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/10/politics/undecided.voters/millennial.html?hpt=hp_c2

  12. grim says:

    I believe the last estimate I saw from the FDIC on unbanked Americans, it put the percentage at approximately 8%.

  13. Ernest Money says:

    Pardon me; I have to call my daughter and tell her to transfer to Plymouth State and major in athletic training.

    And they say girly-men are just a Japanese thing.

  14. Ernest Money says:

    I read a post like #11 and start to think that we really do need a war to thin the ranks of retards like this.

  15. Ernest Money says:

    Smoke ’em if you got ’em.

  16. Juice Box says:

    Re: # 10 – Grim look at all of the people who line up for the toll booths to pay cash. Same demographic since you need at least a checking account for EZpass.

  17. Brian says:

    “So, let me get this straight.”
    “We are going to be gifted with a health care plan that we are forced to purchase, and fined if we don’t, signed by a president who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn’t pay his taxes, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that’s broke.”

    – Dr. Barbara Bellar

  18. Juice Box says:

    Re: # 11 – $50 bucks says they still have mexican landscapers and pool cleaners.

  19. Grim says:

    18 – c’mon the kid is a college graduate, he shouldn’t be doing manual labor like that. Isn’t that what illegals are for?

  20. Fast Eddie says:

    1993 House Buyer [11],

    I’m printing it and framing it. It’s the perfect balance of comedy and tragedy. Do you realize that the enemy that crashes our shores will not need guns? All they’ll need to do is put out a saucer of milk and schedule a feel-good seminar.

  21. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [10];

    I read a great article a while back about how It’s Expensive to be Poor. Like you said – bank fees, overdrafts, check cashing fees, bill payment centers, payday loans, rent-a-center, etc.

  22. Fast Eddie says:

    If there’s a complaint from him — and really, there’s not — it’s that the wireless Internet connection doesn’t reach the pool.

    And his name is f.ucking Tyler… omg. Dear L0rd, we are doomed.

  23. 1993 House Buyer says:

    #22. if only the connection reached the pool he could use the internet to figure out that he could get another wireless router or something…

  24. Fast Eddie says:

    bracelet that reads “Together We Can Change the World”
    Vote in 2008: Barack Obama

    Any questions?

  25. HouseWhineWine says:

    I have two millennials who are college grads. They both have jobs in their chosen fields of study. One of them juggles a few part time jobs and the other has a full time professional position. Finances aren’t the problem for them in terms of buying instead of renting. They don’t want to spend their free time dealing with home maintenance issues and they want the flexibility of moving for better job opportunities. They do not see any upside to home ownership right now. And, I don’t see that their friends with good jobs have much interest either.

  26. JJ's B.S says:

    The Millennial, Name: Tyler York not to sterotype but you described white people.

    Asians at 25 are a whole another story. They are the worker bees who are married, own real estate and make six figures at 25.

    Fortunately at 40 Tyler will be their boss.

  27. JJ's B.S says:

    Having jobs in their chose field of study. Is that good or bad. Unless you are lucky and your chosen field of study pays a lot it is a luxury to do that.

    My friend who is a Partner at PwC four was a computer science major with a minor in film. Besides an internship at MTV as a cameraman and two years working with camel jockeys in IT he had to grow up and get a real job.

    HouseWhineWine says:
    October 8, 2012 at 9:11 am

    I have two millennials who are college grads. They both have jobs in their chosen fields of study. One of them juggles a few part time jobs and the other has a full time professional position. Finances aren’t the problem for them in terms of buying instead of renting. They don’t want to spend their free time dealing with home maintenance issues and they want the flexibility of moving for better job opportunities. They do not see any upside to home ownership right now. And, I don’t see that their friends with good jobs have much interest either.

  28. Ann says:

    Unless we have more immigration.

    I read an article somewhere a while back, but I can never find it again….anyway, it said that the North Jersey housing crash would have been far far worse if not for population growth due to immigration.

  29. Ann says:

    Tyler’s parents should be ashamed of themselves. What of Tyler’s other four brothers….are they lazy losers too?

  30. 3B Buying says:

    Juice: Congrats on the birth of your Son!!!

  31. yome says:

    Lead article:

    Is the article saying,boomers are retiring and they will not need housing? Will they die as soon as they retire?The first of the boomers are just retiring now and the tail end will retire in 2029.Thats if they can retire at 65.That is 17 years away.If the Boomers retire and keep their home how many next gen will need housing as they mature? Immigrant family coming that will need housing.Their kids that will need housing.
    The real question is; Will the annual death of boomers or going to nursing homes be greater than the demand for housing? I don’t think so. Or what year will it really effect housing? In 2029 the last of the boomers is 65.What is their life expectancy?

  32. Phoenix says:

    Imagine having this mother for a parent. Will this child ever make 6 figures?

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/08/mom-who-glued-kids-hands-to-wall-faces-life-term/1619775/

  33. Phoenix says:

    [31] Maybe Tyler would like to work in a nursing home taking care of older boomers. That might just be his calling.

  34. JJ's B.S says:

    Congrats Juice Box!!!

    Ann bigger issue is whose daughter gets stuck marrying these losers? I have seen more and more women become bread winners, organize school activities, handle financial decisions, heck deal with car and home maint. Heck they did most of that anyhow 20 years ago except now lazy husbands want them to work demanding jobs to pay for it all.

    Back in the 1970s a man had two choices.
    Get a great job and pay people do do home improvements, car repairs etc. while wife stayed home and raise kids.
    Have a blue collar job and one weekends mow lawn, fix old car and repair house and get a part time job so wife could stay home and raise kids

    Now it is lay on coach play video games, while wife raises kids, works full time, cooks and pays people to fix car, repair house and do chores that a husband used to do.

    I have seen more and more men under 40 very happy and women under 40 miserable. Cousin has a 800k house, equinix membership, brand new lexus all on a clerks salary and pays for snow removal, lawn service home repairs etc. Money got tight so he had his wife take a THIRD job. She does not have a maid as he does not see point since between her working three jobs, kid in day care 12 hours a day house does not get messed up. If his father in law was alive today he would beat him to death

    Ann says:
    October 8, 2012 at 9:27 am

    Tyler’s parents should be ashamed of themselves. What of Tyler’s other four brothers….are they lazy losers too?

  35. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I thought 1998 or so would be the top for exactly the reasons below. I was saying to to myself, “Don’t these people realize they’re signing on for a quarter million dollars in debt?” I was way early and this sounds quaint in retrospect.

    But Whalen said the boomers heading into retirement are leaving smaller populations behind them, making it unlikely housing will ever get back to the peak levels experienced before the 2008 financial crisis.

  36. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Does anybody remember the failed, but not by much, “guest worker program” in 2006-7? I was scratching my head as to why seemingly all of congress was hustling to try to pass a bill that none of their constituents wanted. At the same time I stumbled on a white paper that forecast international residential real estate values 25 years in the future. This is how I remember the predictions for RE from that paper:

    Japan – toilet due to aging population
    Europe – toilet due to aging population
    US – flat due to their liberal and loose immigration policies and enforcement.

    That was my “Ah-hah!” moment.

  37. yome says:

    If life expectancy is over 80 years old, most of the 1st boomers to retire will still be alive by the time the last boomers will retire in 17 years. Just saying

  38. yome says:

    History tells us,there is at least one housing bubble every 20 years. No?

  39. Fast Eddie says:

    I now declare the millennials as the “Fredo Corleone” generation: sweet, simple and helpless.

  40. History says:

    [38] You’ve misquoted me.

    History tells us,there is at least one housing bubble every 20 years. No?

  41. JJ's B.S says:

    Boomers have tons of cash. All in the timing. Someone retiring now at the age of 65 stayed the course in stocks and has his mortgage long paid off had from 1968 to 2012 to invest, dollar cost averaging in considering several long bear markets in there he did great. Throw in some long term bonds bought over last 12 years and even better.

    Unless someone over leveraged themselves or did buy high sell low type panic investing they are sitting pretty. Plus things like GICs, annuities, and long term munis and treasuries that were paying high rates from 2009 to 2011 they must likely bought a lot of as they dialed down stock last 12 years in workforce.

  42. History says:

    According to this guy, https://twitter.com/JustinHilley ,

    The Obama administration’s latest housing scorecard reflects an improving market, with rising home values taking homeowner equity to its highest level since the third quarter of 2008.

    Homeowner equity jumped $406 billion, or 5.9%, to $7.28 trillion in the second quarter. The number of underwater borrowers has declined by 11% since the end of last year, from 12.1 million in the fourth quarter of 2011 to 10.8 million in the second quarter.

    http://housingwire.com/news/obama-scorecard-shows-home-equity-highest-3q-2008

    History says “Obama shill”

  43. Phoenix says:

    [41]JJ
    Not only that, pension income, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, some jobs with lifetime health benefits. None of which will be available for the millennials.

  44. Jill says:

    Was at the assisted living residence where my mom is residing the other day (long story) and had a nightmare vision of the future, where a bunch of people with walkers will be in the lovely main living area listening to a Grateful Dead cover band and asking when dinner is.

  45. Mike says:

    39 “Fredo, you’re my older brother, and I love you, but don’t ever side with anyone against the family again, ever.”

  46. History says:

    Boomers are too intelligent to ever make such rookie mistakes. That’s why they are all rich.

    Unless someone over leveraged themselves or did buy high sell low type panic investing they are sitting pretty.

  47. History says:

    [44]”I will get pie. I will get pie. I will get pie. Are we having pie?”

    Was at the assisted living residence where my mom is residing the other day (long story) and had a nightmare vision of the future, where a bunch of people with walkers will be in the lovely main living area listening to a Grateful Dead cover band and asking when dinner is.

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Bedford, NH is the Short Hills of New Hampshire. Without the jews, of course.

    Sorry lib.

  49. grim says:

    Doesn’t the retirement and death of the boomer generation represent a massive redistribution of wealth, as the boomers liquidate savings, investments, and assets pre-death, and whatever left over post-death?

    As far as I know, they can’t take any of that money with them.

    And, with the next generations smaller, doesn’t that represent a concentration of wealth as part of the transfer?

  50. JJ's B.S says:

    Millennials are the biggest recipients of these benefits. The slacker generation once again gets to slack. Think about it, 50 years ago pre-safety nets, people age 25-55 had aging poor parents and inlaws with no pension, medical or SS to support themselves. The young healthy worker had to support their kids, stay at home wife and often their parents and sometimes their inlaws all on their one salary.

    Today the safety net the old folks are using that millennials are paying for and complaining dont realize they are the main recipients of the benefit. Tell you what, lets cancel it today. Mom and Day, inllaws heck even grandma and grandpa all move in with you and you wipe their butt and pay their bills for next 30 years. Mom and Dad and Grandma and Granpa might like it, I am sure the slacker millennials dont.

    My take on SS and Medicare is this. I pay in and I may not get the benefit. But if they stopped it now my inlaws would be forced to move in with me and I would have to take care of them and pay their bills. A little payroll deduction beats that.

    Phoenix says:
    October 8, 2012 at 11:05 am

    [41]JJ
    Not only that, pension income, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, some jobs with lifetime health benefits. None of which will be available for the millennials.

  51. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Seems the UK is rolling out red carpets in directions other than France:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49325398

    Capital goes where it’s welcome and stays where it’s well treated. Our administration chooses to ignore it. With predictable consequences.

  52. Juice Box says:

    Can anyone throw up a chart of Boomers with mortgages? I believe
    A large percentage are still levered up with credit to the hilt and need
    Tyler the Gym Teacher to buy their 500k POS.

  53. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [49] grim,

    Yes, and don’t think that TPTB in DC aren’t well aware of that fact. And if they haven’t yet, I expect CTJ and CBPP to be calling for federal legislation to ban dynastic trusts (which are typically state creations so they cannot be banned outright but they can be taxed into extinction).

  54. JJ's B.S says:

    No. This generation is first generation to inherit wealth. I recall in my grandparents day when their parents died kids chipped in to pay for funeral.

    Today kids are fighting over the inheritance split.

    grim says:
    October 8, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Doesn’t the retirement and death of the boomer generation represent a massive redistribution of wealth, as the boomers liquidate savings, investments, and assets pre-death, and whatever left over post-death?

    As far as I know, they can’t take any of that money with them.

    And, with the next generations smaller, doesn’t that represent a concentration of wealth as part of the transfer?

  55. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [6] Walmart & the unbankables: Earlier this year I bought my 8 year old an Otterbox Defender protective case for her iPod Touch. It’s like a $50 case, but WMT had it for ~$32 online and maybe $2 for shipping, so I ordered it. Ever since I get all their emails of new services. Here’s one I really got a kick out of: Online shopping for people with no credit whatsoever!
    It works like this:

    1. Order online.
    2. Show up at your local Walmart and pay cash for your online purchase in the next 48 hours.
    3. Go home and wait for it to arrive.

  56. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [7] mike

    The SEC now conducting tax audits. Guess policing WS was so easy, they have time on their hands to help out the IRS.

    It represents an interesting new front, or an envelope-push, by the Obamunists. Pfizer probably is in full tax compliance (or at least has a defensible position) so the SEC gets involved to see if they can’t use their rules to shoehorn some revenue Uncle Sam’s way. Until I see the letter, and only if it explains SEC’s position, will I know more. But this represents a new attack on multinationals by this administration, and a new way to circumvent the tax realities imposed by an exploitable tax code.

    Wonder if the next letter Pfizer gets will be from the U.K. government, inviting them to go house-hunting?

  57. Fast Eddie says:

    Juice Box [52],

    Tyler the Gym Teacher needs to first stop weeping over his older version of iShit and actually earn a 20% down payement before considering the 500K POS.

  58. Juice Box says:

    Re: #54 – Many Boomers are planning to leave nothing but debt to their heirs.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boomers-staying-debt-retire-comfort-205958727.html

  59. joyce says:

    Gary,
    How many people are reading/posting on this blog using smartphones? dare i say… an iphone? Let’s not pretend there’s only one generation that loves tech toys. How many of us have kindles, ipods, ipads, etc?

  60. Fast Eddie says:

    Joyce [60],

    The difference is, this generation knows nothing else but iDevices; they’re turning into turnips. It’s the norm, not the exception.

  61. joyce says:

    I think we can all agree that each generation criticizes the next one. We are all spoiled in the eyes of our parents… and the “tough” times that they invariably experienced regardless of when they grew up.

  62. a "millennial" says:

    57 Fast Eddie

    You just sound like a bitter old man whose prime has slipped away. How old are you anyway? 50? 60? 100? I am sure the generation previous to yours said the same things about your choices, fashions, music and your 8-track gadgets or whatever it was at the time (horse-drawn buggies?). Do all old people generalize about an entire generation like you do or just the bitter ones?

  63. Fast Eddie says:

    Dear Millennial,

    Show me, don’t tell me, sweetheart.

  64. Anon E. Moose says:

    Eddie [39] (& Mike [45]]);

    I now declare the millennials as the “Fredo Corleone” generation: sweet, simple and helpless.

    Fredo got it in Part 2 when Michael realized he was too dangerous to let live.

  65. Brian says:

    Table 1
    Percentage of Families
    with Mortgage Debt

    1989 2010
    Age <35 (1989 34.9%) (2010 34.0%)
    Age 35-44 (1989 57.9%) (2010 57.6%)
    Age 45-54 (1989 58.3%) (2010 60.4 4%)
    Age 55–64 (1989 37.0%) (2010 53.6%)
    Age 65–74 (1989 21.7%) (2010 40.5%)
    Age 75+ (1989 6.3%) (2010 24.2%)
    Source: Survey of Consumer Finances, 2007 and 2010.3

  66. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [56] redux

    I read the SEC letter. The part pertaining to taxes seems to ask only that the company explain why offshore operations seem to be so much more efficient than domestic ones, such that the offshore operations have profits while domestic ops have losses. This is a tax audit insofar as the issue of where Pfizer is booking expenses is not likely an investor protection issue.

  67. Fast Eddie says:

    Moose [65],

    Fredo got it because Michael had to adhere to the “family” code. He had no choice or else he would loose all respect of his “family” and the other “families.” Fredo wasn’t dangerous, he was weak and he broke the code. As Hyman Roth said, “we chose this life.”

  68. a "millennial" says:

    there is plenty to see all around you…but you are too blind to see it. plus, my generation has to deal with life during/after all the messes you old people caused. we haven’t been running the show around here…but we will be soon.

  69. Brian says:

    Don’t take them too seriously. Especially “Fast Eddie” aka Gary. When you are an old fart, coming to grips with your own mortality, you will be cranky too.

    69.a “millennial” says:
    October 8, 2012 at 12:01 pm
    there is plenty to see all around you…but you are too blind to see it. plus, my generation has to deal with life during/after all the messes you old people caused. we haven’t been running the show around here…but we will be soon.

  70. Juice Box says:

    Re: #69 – Soon? Your generation is still in diapers and living home, the Gen Xers like me will be running the show long after your hairline has receded and you can no longer fit into your skinny jeans.

  71. Phoenix says:

    There is a reason they are called the “Locust Generation.”

  72. Fast Eddie says:

    …my generation has to deal with life during/after all the messes you old people caused.

    LOL! Awww, here’s a hanky, sweety. Tell that to our Fathers and Grandfathers who stuck cardboard in their shoes and slept on the floor only to have to defeat not one but two world powers at the time. And you know what they did afterwards to filter that anger and resentment? They put a man on the moon with a f.cking ruler and a pencil, just to shove it up everyone’s @ss.

  73. JJ's B.S says:

    Fast Eddie I do find the post 9/11 kids a lot better. The kids born in the period of 1999-2012 are much better than the kids born between 1982 and 1999. Somehow a childhood marred by 9/11 and a huge recession helped them a lot.

  74. Anon E. Moose says:

    Not dangerous in the sense that he would threaten Michael, but he was too easily manipulated. I think it was that plus a little bit of personal revenge that the hit on Michael was a sell out for some petty piece of nothing (going back to Fredo’s simplicity — kind of like how people could be convinced in 2006 to buy $650k POS capes needing 30 years worth of deferred maintenance and upkeep because interest rates were so low — just 5.5%!).

    The ‘family business’ with Roth was settled when Roth got hit. And if there was any ‘code’ involved, it was protecting Fredo until his mother passed.

  75. a "millennial" says:

    i’m talking about the financial f*ck ups your generation has made (btw only old people like my grandpa carry a “hanky”). i’m just telling it like it is. you are the whiner who seems to think anything will be solved by crying about people because their name is tyler and they have an iphone – sounds more like your misdirected anger is jealousy.

    sorry for taking up all of your time. you probably have to go yell at some kids to get off your lawn now.

  76. Anon E. Moose says:

    Baby cakes [76];

    only old people like my grandpa carry a “hanky”

    That’s probably why you talk like a late-20’s snot nosed kid like Tyler, living over his parent’s garage.

    Like isn’t school — everyone doesn’t get a trophy.

  77. Ernest Money says:

    jill (44)-

    And people talk about death panels like they’d be a bad thing…

    “Was at the assisted living residence where my mom is residing the other day (long story) and had a nightmare vision of the future, where a bunch of people with walkers will be in the lovely main living area listening to a Grateful Dead cover band and asking when dinner is.”

  78. Ernest Money says:

    The twilight of the Boomers will be more f$%^ed up than anything Jonathan Franzen could possibly dream.

  79. chicagofinance says:

    This is JJ talking…….

    JJ’s B.S says:
    October 8, 2012 at 10:03 am
    I have seen more and more men under 40 very happy and women under 40 miserable. If his father in law was alive today he would beat him to death

  80. Phoenix says:

    I would rather be free of debt, be financially secure, be able to afford healthcare and an education, and have my health over having a giant house, giant tax bill, etc. Not everyone wants to keep up with the “Joneses.” JJ is on to something when he talks about his home-low upkeep, low taxes, etc.

  81. Ernest Money says:

    expat (55)-

    What if you live in your car?

    1. Order online.
    2. Show up at your local Walmart and pay cash for your online purchase in the next 48 hours.
    3. Go home and wait for it to arrive.

  82. Phoenix says:

    Kids are like a cake. Lots of ingredients, skill and work to bake the cake. Funny thing is, when the bakers see how the cake turned out, and they don’t like it, they don’t blame themselves, they blame the cake. It’s the cake’s fault, after all.

  83. grim says:

    The Walmart/Amex deal has nothing to do with shopping at Walmart. Walmart wants to be the defacto ‘bank’ for this segment of the population. I know Walmart has already established itself as a bank in Canada, I’m sure they are working towards the same here in the states, and everywhere else for that matter.

  84. Ernest Money says:

    Let them eat cake.

  85. Juice Box says:

    Re:84 – Interchange fee for Walmart is proboblay north of 200 million a year. They still are mad about 2006 when congressmen wholly owned by the banksters thretened legislation prevented the Walmart bank from opening.

  86. chicagofinance says:

    Here’s how it works down in Red Bank…..85 year old widow dies and leaves inheritance to kids who are 50-60 years old. Kids already talked their mom into downsizing several years in the past, not so much because it will be good for their mom, but when she kicks the bucket, it will be easier for them to immediately jump all over the money. All accounts are in will substitute arrangements, transfer on death, or trusts. Mom leaves roughly $1M to three kids. Money disappears almost instantaneously, because the locusts have already pre-spent the money and run up debts, so the estate just melts into nothingness. The amazing thing is a lifetime of conservatism and responsibility is instantly incinerated. Some of the locusts actually get a scared look in their eyes when they realize that THAT’S it. Somehow, they thought there was magically going to be more. Then they want to talk to me, and I say fcuk you pay me. What can I do for them anyway?……

    JJ’s B.S says:
    October 8, 2012 at 11:20 am
    No. This generation is first generation to inherit wealth. I recall in my grandparents day when their parents died kids chipped in to pay for funeral.
    Today kids are fighting over the inheritance split.

  87. Ernest Money says:

    The idea of Walmart Bank seems eerily similar to the mark of the devil.

  88. Brian says:

    Don’t forget Baby Boomer’s most famous member:

    Barak Obama

    http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/12/is_obama_a_baby.html

    Thank you baby boomers.

    73.Fast Eddie says:
    October 8, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    LOL! Awww, here’s a hanky, sweety. Tell that to our Fathers and Grandfathers who stuck cardboard in their shoes and slept on the floor only to have to defeat not one but two world powers at the time. And you know what they did afterwards to filter that anger and resentment? They put a man on the moon with a f.cking ruler and a pencil, just to shove it up everyone’s @ss.

  89. JJ's B.S says:

    I don’t mind spending money. I do hate anything like a car loan, mortgage, property taxes etc. Anything with a fixed monthly payment. I have seen enough people get sick, die, get fired, downsized etc. to know how this turns out. Every short sale or BK I look at should be a cautionary tale.

    Phoenix says:
    October 8, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    I would rather be free of debt, be financially secure, be able to afford healthcare and an education, and have my health over having a giant house, giant tax bill, etc. Not everyone wants to keep up with the “Joneses.” JJ is on to something when he talks about his home-low upkeep, low taxes, etc

  90. Fast Eddie says:

    millennial,

    I’m not angry or jealous, I’m fearful. It’s like a coach who doesn’t have enough confidence to put a young RB in the game because he’s afraid he’ll fumble and lose the game. Except, in this instance, the game is the country.

  91. Fast Eddie says:

    Moose [75],

    Got it. :)

  92. Libtard in Union says:

    Was raised not to depend on anyone but myself. I’m the youngest of seven so no cars, no college tuition, no allowance. If you were lucky, there would be leftovers from dinner to take for school lunch the next day. I’ve worked since I was old enough to need money. From paper routes to selling books door to door. Heck, in elementary school, I used to sell my can of soda to the hyper kid for a dollar everyday to provide some income. By age 13, I had a small landscaping service (mainly mowing lawns and Spring and Fall cleanups) where I hired my friends to mow lawns and took a cut. In high school, I ran ski-trips (chartered buses) so I could ski for free. Parents didn’t know about those fortunately. All my brothers and sisters did this. If it snowed, I was first out shoveling driveways and made a mint (for a kid).

    Today I look at my siblings. Everyone is successful enough that no one has any debt and all of them are doing quite well for themselves. The moral of the story here is simply, don’t spoil your kids! My folks will die with multiple millions, but none of their seven offspring will need it. I worry for a few of my nieces and nephews, but for the most part, the majority are being raised similar to how we were. The millenials will be just fine as long as their are enough of them out there that were raised properly. Most will probably the offspring of immigrants (like Chifi I presume). Believe me, my kid is not getting an iPhone unless he buys it. Though, I’m much softer than my parents were. I give him $1 per week allowance when he earns it through good behavior and good performance in school. Unfortunately, Gator Jr. is super irresponsible with his stuff (as was I as a kid) so he recently had to delve into his savings to pay for replacement soccer shin guards. He also knows how a bank works and was so proud when he finally had enough money in his TD Account to earn a penny interest.

  93. Phoenix says:

    [90]JJ

  94. Ann says:

    50 “My take on SS and Medicare is this. I pay in and I may not get the benefit. But if they stopped it now my inlaws would be forced to move in with me and I would have to take care of them and pay their bills. A little payroll deduction beats that.”

    I agree. I am more than happy to pay in if it helps keeps my mother in her condo and not in my house (not that I don’t love her, but a few miles away works for both of us)

    People also forget SS is a life insurance policy if your spouse dies while you still have kids under 18.

  95. cobbler says:

    brian [89]
    All the presidents from 1992 till at least 2016 are baby boomers.

  96. Phoenix says:

    [90] JJ Agreed. Like others on here, I work, I save, have only a small part of my mortgage left to pay. My weakness has been my investments, except for the house. Over the years, I have had to use employer based retirement companies, some of which decimated my accounts at one time or another. Libtard is already teaching his kids about finance. Science was/is my strong point. Sometimes I wish I studied finance instead. The payoff would have been better.

  97. grim says:

    Sometimes I wish I studied finance instead. The payoff would have been better.

    Not sure about that one, there are a few finance professionals on the blog, and their stories aren’t always rosy.

  98. Libtard in Union says:

    Phoenix…join an investment club. They are free and invaluable. You’ll learn more than just about the stock market if you join the right one. Best of all, it’s free. Then learn how to do your own taxes. There is no better way to figure out how to save money than to understand all of the tax deductions available and when they phase out. I may be screwed this year as I had an insanely good year gambling. Dems the breaks. Can’t wait to be retired so I can actually keep all of what I earn in the casino.

  99. grim says:

    93 – Nicely done Lib. At one point I signed on to deliver two different papers (as well as one of those free rags) once I realized I could essentially do the same amount of work for almost double in pay. I was running the delivery monopoly for the neighborhood.

    As a young whippersnapper, I also cornered the bootleg mac rom market for a while too, but that’s a story best left unsaid (sorry Steve, I’ll settle up in heaven).

  100. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    ugh this again, I know more millenials that fit Taylor’s description than the other way around. Then again I was a considered a shiftless slacker.

    In the end a potrait is painted to every generation while the reality is slightly different. For the millenials it will be the everyone gets a trophy, forever child moniker.

    Grim Lib – Paper routes, cut grass, shoveled snow for cash I think that is a hallmark of a lot of kids who grew up late seventies, eighties, early nineties. Crap I worked two jobs every summer from the age of 16 to 23. day started at 7AM ended around 11PM. Most kids I know can’t even be bothered with one.

  101. Libtard in Union says:

    Bootleg MAC rom. Nice Grim. If I was to list all of the different jobs I’ve worked in my life, people wouldn’t believe me. I have not been unemployed for a single day of my life since I was about 7 years old. That’s how I developed my uber charming personality and management style.

  102. Westjester says:

    Saw a YouTube series called Crash Course by Chris Mortenson formerly of Pfizer. It is rather elementary, but having been made in 2008, seems to have been rather prescient about the debt growth. His personal predictions were at the very least pessimistic.

    I am looking for fact based criticisms of his analysis. Has anyone seen this series?

    Thanks

  103. Libtard in Union says:

    Pain,

    It pains me to hear parents frequently say, between homework and athletic activities, there’s no time left for their little darlings to work. Sadly, what these children would learn in responsibility and dealing with others and solving real-life problems is much more valuable than getting an A over a B+ on their high school transcript. Personally, I’ve got to where I am today through knowing how to ace an interview or even how to properly apply for a job. I’m never nervous. Heck, I’ve worked more hours and probably have more paid experience when I was 25, then the interviewer will have when they retire.

    Plus, all too often, the most educated I run into in my professional career tend to be the most socially retarded. Wouldn’t trust some of these people to mow lawns, let alone help run a business. JJ imparts a lot of wisdom here, regardless of whether he’s BS or not. When it comes to hiring, I look for a lot of same things he does. Sheyit. I’m a Montclair State graduate.

  104. Ann says:

    Other than the basics, I had to work to buy all of my clothes when I was in high school. Working ten hours at minimum wage to buy a pair of jeans is the best motivation-building exercise out there.

    I learned real quick that I didn’t want to live like that my whole life and worked and planned accordingly.

    Kids are spoiled and lazy today.

  105. Phoenix says:

    I would trust JJ with my finances. But not my daughter.

  106. Libtard in Union says:

    Ann,

    Not all of them, though you would have to go to Paterson or any other center of immigrants to see the same work ethic. Yes, it’s a generalization, but it’s generally true. :P

  107. Libtard in Union says:

    “I would trust JJ with my finances. But not my daughter.”

    All I know, is that if my son was dating JJ’s daughter, rather than bring a box of donuts when he first got to meet her family, I would advise him to bring a sack of hollowed out onions.

  108. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Class warfare comes to NJRERe. Cool.

    Back in mid-90’s during a snow storm in Nutley I asked my wife(then girlfriend) why it was that no kids ever knocked on our door to shovel snow for money like I did when I was a kid. She said when you were a kid you probably wanted things that cost under $10, so if you earned $25 you were rich. She said today’s (1995) kids want stuff that costs $100-$200 (game consoles and cartridges) but they can probably only make $50 in a snow storm. They just don’t think it’s worth it.

  109. JJ's B.S says:

    Ann downside of making kids work is in HS and college I was working 20 hours a week in a part time job, sold beer and nickle bags at Jones Beach, worked at stolen hub cap booth at flew market, scalped concert tickets in parking lots at night, killed lab animals, moving man, painter, etc when you are paying rent at home, chipping in for groceries and utilities, paying for your college and clothes and trying to have a social life you deal with some unsavory characters. At min wage I could never afford it. Sophomore year in college I earned more than my Mom did working full time in a fortune 100 company if you added up all my side gigs.

  110. Libtard in Union says:

    “They just don’t think it’s worth it.”

    Feh! It’s just so much easier to ask mom and dad for it, so why get wet, cold and sore???

  111. Juice Box says:

    Yup I had to hire a snow removal. Service for my mom, seems
    There isn’t a kid for miles that shovels snow. I made lots of loot
    Back in the day shoveling snow. We would take our windfall to the coffee shop that had asteroids or pac man games and consume hot chocolate, candy bars and spend the afternoon trying to get a new high score.

  112. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [111] That too. I’m not making excuses for them, but there was a time when you could just hustle a little and buy yourself some independence, which we mostly did because our parents couldn’t or wouldn’t give us any money. Summer 1980 I was making $4/hour in my 40 hour/week summer gig and I felt rich. My rent was $80/month and I was putting $150 in my pocket every week.

    Feh! It’s just so much easier to ask mom and dad for it, so why get wet, cold and sore???

  113. Libtard in Union says:

    And I don’t equate it to class warfare at all. I was raised in a pretty middle-class household. My parents probably had the means to get us all cars, but they were more worried about supporting their own retirement needs. If you let your kids pay for their own college, they will do a lot better in many cases than if you pay for it for them. Trust me! It’s the work experience thing once again.

    Since I’ve moved from Montclair to GR, I’ve noticed that there are a lot more stay-at-home moms. But I’ve also noticed that although they tend to drive nicer cars than the Montclair moms who all seem to drive Prius’, they are much more frugal with things like carpooling, sports equipment swaps, they eat out less, etc. There’s some truth that the rich become rich through their frugality. Which is also why I believe that cutting taxes on the rich really won’t add much to the economy. When the economy is gloomy, the rich save more and invest more in the markets when it’s down. The 99% run from the markets and can’t curtail their spending much as so much less of it is discretionary. I remember in 98 that the first industry to die was the boat makers. Do the staunch Laffer supporters here believe that if the 1%ers were given and extra 50K, 100K or even 100,000K, that they would immediately run out and buy stuff which would create jobs? I think they would just invest more in the markets giving cash rich companies more cash, which they are already not spending do to the uncertainty in the economy. Share the spoils and we will all do better. The person who will spend in a recession is the middle class person. They will purchase items and services that employ other like workers. Eh, what do I know.

  114. Libtard in Union says:

    I meant 2008. I still think we are in the last century. Man I’m getting old.

  115. JJ's B.S says:

    I pass out after a big snowstorm we had a big blizzard one year and everyone was snowed in for three days. I shoveled 14 hours a day for three days straight. I felt like an 80 year old man that just run over by a truck.

    JB you payed for pacman and astroids? We did fishing line and crazy glued it to a quarter, dropped it in slot and bounced it as much we could till quarter fell off. Then played a few hours and sold remaining games to next guy for a quarter. Also memorized pattern so we could play forever on one quarter if no fishing line.

    Juice Box says:
    October 8, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Yup I had to hire a snow removal. Service for my mom, seems
    There isn’t a kid for miles that shovels snow. I made lots of loot
    Back in the day shoveling snow. We would take our windfall to the coffee shop that had asteroids or pac man games and consume hot chocolate, candy bars and spend the afternoon trying to get a new high score.

  116. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Expat – hell I was still doing lawns at that time and snow removal the only difference was I had graduated up from a push mower and shovel to a snowblower and self propelled.

    On snowy days total take went from 50 bucks to like 400 and I had regular customers. Hell I used to carry around a tow strap and drive around and pull people out with my 4×4. Would ask for ten bucks if they had it great if not I pulled them out anyway but told them next time it would be 20.

    the thing is kids with any initiative today start online businesses. which aren’t a bad thing. the others are happy to stay home and play video games. When mom and dad give you something for nothing why the hell should you go out and earn it. Today’s kids are a perfect example of welfare in action.

  117. Libtard in Union says:

    JJ.

    Sad, we did the same quarter trick. We had a better one than that. We spent a lot of time in the Summer at the Jersey shore. Along the boardwalk there are those arcades where you win tokens which can then be traded in for prizes. Well through experimentation, we learned that the 5c tokens which one received on the coin pusher games (the ones where there are two levels where you drop a nickel down a chute and it lands on the first level and once enough stack up there the level which is pushing in and out drops some nickels to the lower level) registered as silver dollars in the vending machines. Figure the return on the pusher was 5 cents for every dime, which would work out to ninety cents for each nickel token in the vending machine. Mints and gum were a quarter so you would end up with a 65 cent profit plus the gum for every dime invested. We did this for three Summers. It worked on all of the machines that had the large spring like item droppers. Good times, felt rich. Even worked in the cigarette machines, but how many cigarettes could we have smoked. Wish we were smart enough to think of selling the packs of smokes, but I imagine our game would have ended a lot sooner.

  118. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    In the mid 1980’s we used to order burlap sacks of Mexican pesos from the back of some coin magazine. They cost under a nickel each, but as the ad stated, “Approximately the size of a quarter”. When GSP tolls were $0.35, the dime was the most expensive part;-)

  119. 1993 House Buyer says:

    116,118,119..how did we connect working hard and earning money in our youth to ripping off arcade owners and taxpayers….?? lol

  120. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Free market : )

  121. Juice Box says:

    No coin tricks for me JJ. I held the high score of 3 million in Asteroids in my neck of the woods until the day Asteroid Delux came out and they took the old
    Machine away, by then the next generation of kids moved into my turf the coffee shop and I moved on to other endeavors.

  122. grim says:

    120 – Not only are we more driven than kids today are … but when we were bad, we were badder than they are. Worthless all around. Kids today couldn’t run a 3 card monte con in an alley off of 42nd if their life depended on it.

  123. JJ's B.S says:

    I used to tip soda machines forward, chips and snack machines sideways, used a philips screw driver on pinball machines to get to counter that gave free games, other favorites, switch prices at TSS or Korvettes one day and next day buy item half off. Hit a cool looking girl at register or old senile lady. Used to get stuff half price. Take two halfs of movie tickets off ground that match pretend to rip and give usher and get in for free. Order domino pies last minute as store was closing to fake address then just happen to be walking by and offer to buy for half price. One favorite was to get temp insurance cards pay by check, change mind same day and guy would charge for one day insurance. But since I did not have insurance over night batch job file to motor vehicles never sent that I insurance, therefore I used temp insurance card to register car and therefore no notice would be sent to insurance company that I did not have insurance. Used to start and stop insurance all the time as at $500 bucks a year it was a killer. Had car registered in Florida once as no inspection or insurance in Florida required. That was great. Only rear plate and registration on rear plate. Used to back up and touch car behind me when parking illegal and cops could not find plate number to give ticket. As long as it was not a tow away zone I was good.

    So many many scams kids pulled back them.

  124. JJ's B.S says:

    Day I gave up pacman was it only gave you one free man. I played for hours to turn machine over to one million and start again and the damm thing did not give me a second free man at 20,000. Cheap developer.

    Juice Box says:
    October 8, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    No coin tricks for me JJ. I held the high score of 3 million in Asteroids in my neck of the woods until the day Asteroid Delux came out and they took the old
    Machine away, by then the next generation of kids moved into my turf the coffee shop and I moved on to other endeavors.

  125. Juice Box says:

    For some reason every kid with a few quarters thought they could beat me or my friends in Pac Man. Every weekend a new mark would walk into the arcade and we would let him win a game or two before upping the ante. Almost every kid back then was good for $5 bucks. Pac Man spawned millions of dollars worth of arcade gambling at it’s height and that is when towns started cracking down by passing laws limiting the number of games an arcade.could have and raising fees sky high.

  126. JJ's B.S says:

    Realtors crack me up. So saw a condo estate sale, ok shape, but typical estate stuff, carpet, paining some outdated appliances. Guy was asking like 270K. On market six months and unit is empty. Has a brother and sister to split it with. Said he cant buy it as siblings want it sold.

    I tell him not that interested but if he gave a good price for a quick cash as/is deal I would be interested, guy goes you have to offer first. Is this sometype of realtor rule. I have to offer first. So I go ok, how about 200K cash. Guy goes that is not enough and does not counter offer. I am fine with that. But funny how he acts like his client acts and he would complain if his clients did that.

    Condos dont sell that much anymore. The comps are iffy last three years. Units sold for 170k in 1999 and 425K in 2006. I am guessing at price and I know he is too as no unit in building has sold for two years.

  127. Ernest Money says:

    lib (108)-

    JJ with either my money or my daughter would be a high-beta activity, to say the least.

    Beta for me…and beta for him.

  128. Ernest Money says:

    Look at all the slackards off work today, coming in here and looking to get liquored up. Columbus Day should be abolished. Perfect example of a holiday that no self-respecting working person would ever take.

    These aren’t Communipaw Av bangers, either.

  129. Ernest Money says:

    Then again, if I was some bank or gubmint drone, I’d drink all the time.

  130. Essex says:

    Best Wishes “JB”

    ”Christopher Columbus, as everyone knows, is honoured by posterity because he was the last to discover America.”
    James Joyce (1882-1941

  131. Ann says:

    107 Lib, that’s true. Looking back, I might as well have been an immigrant kid in Paterson.

  132. Ragnar says:

    Libtard, 114
    Thanks for the insights. I think you’re totally right at the micro level, but misguided by bad “expert” economists at the macro level. The key to a healthy economy isn’t spending, despite what most of the Nobel prize winning Keynesians say. Beyond the range of the moment, it’s saving and investing in productive projects that drive economies. Spending money on boats or real estate doesn’t help or create the better economy, it should be the consequence of a healthy economy.

    If the government borrows and spends money it doesn’t have, and also encourages households to borrow and spend money they haven’t made, and everyone is buying houses and boats and cars, does that make the economy healthy? You know it doesn’t, otherwise you’d have to say that 2006 was a healthy economy. It was a sick economy, actually a non-economic economy, that happened to be registering strong GDP growth, which is not “the economy”, but rather a Keyensian-oriented reckoning of an economy.

    Libtard, I don’t support tax cuts for some utilitarian purpose of “supporting the economy”. I do it on the basis of your parents. If you make people responsible for themselves, and make them earn a living, they will respect themselves more and also spend their own money more wisely than someone who just has things given to them. And like I said, savings and investment is much more important for the long run growth of the economy anyway. Check out the Solow growth model, the model which looks at long term rather than instantaneous economies. The Keynesian model which worships spending genuinely places no weight on medium to long term impacts.

  133. Ernest Money says:

    There is no economy anymore. All that’s left is legalized money laundering and state-sanctioned theft.

  134. chicagofinance says:

    Gorf…..25 cents for 90 minutes….
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhu0LI5XOlg

  135. Neanderthal Economist says:

    I’m so glad I didn’t hold off on our purchase to wait for the wave of foreclosures that is supposedly going to hit the market at some point. I’ve seen a few of them hit the market this month and they are worse than knock down condition. I don’t think I would even go in to look. The one house looked like grass was growing on the kitchen floor.

  136. Neanderthal Economist says:

    My buddy bought a short sale house a year ago and he and his family are now getting sick from mold. They are noticing it grow in the back room. Apparently the house was built on marshy swampy land so mold grows eaay. What a frickin nightmare. I wonder if they should talk to a lawyer about the bank not disclosing that? Or does “as is” condition pretty much cover them?

  137. relo says:

    Interesting, well to me anyway. The house we sold in FL in ’08 subsequently went jingle mail and was on and off the market for several years. It recently sold for 20% less than our sale price, which is 35% more than we paid in ’99.

    Also, Lennar is reaching out to subs in the area for a planned 1,000 homesite development.

  138. Ernest Money says:

    veets (137)-

    Pretty much one heating or cooling season without HVAC being run will turn most modern NJ houses into a Petri dish. In a place like FL, it only takes a month.

    The first thing I’d tell a potential REO buyer is that chances are about 100% there will be mold in the house, no matter how much the bank may have lipsticked the pig. It still amazes me how many people will sicken themselves and their kids just to lop 30K off a fantasy asking price.

  139. Ernest Money says:

    veets (136)-

    The inventory that won’t kill you will be snapped up (in bulk) by the insiders who swoop back into the game with laundered money and rehabilitated reputations.

  140. Ernest Money says:

    This country has devolved into a sad collection of goddam idiots and grifters.

  141. Libtard in the City says:

    Well I’m not a grifter, but I feel like a goddamn idiot for not pursuing it.

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