Paying the Sandy Tax

From Bloomberg:

Christie Says Damage Costs From Sandy Outside Tax Cap

New Jersey Governor Chris Christie said property owners in areas devastated by Superstorm Sandy may face higher tax bills, as local governments exceed his 2 percent cap on annual increases to cover rebuilding costs.

The state may release a preliminary tally of the damage and revenue effects as soon as Nov. 16, Christie, 50, said today in a Statehouse news briefing. He said municipalities will be able to get federal aid to cover some rebuilding costs, and said the property-tax increase cap he and lawmakers passed in 2010 has a natural-disaster exemption.

“It tells taxpayers in towns that were destroyed that they’re probably going to have higher taxes — it’s got to be paid for,” Christie said. “Most people in these towns will recognize that if they believe the money is being spent reasonably and responsibly to rebuild their towns, they’ll be happy to do it.”

Christie has made controlling the state’s highest-in-the- U.S. tax burden on residents a mainstay of his administration. New Jersey’s homeowners paid an average of $7,759 in real-estate levies last year.

Christie said today it was “silly’” to speculate on how the storm may affect tax growth. He has already pushed back a quarterly deadline to pay property levies and said today that he may work with the Democrat-controlled Legislature to set up a tax-relief program for storm victims.

The governor also said he won’t support a higher gasoline tax to fix the state’s transit system, which was heavily damaged by the storm. He said he has no estimate for how the clean-up efforts may affect property tax bills, and said he still supports his proposed tax-cut until he sees more proof that dealing with Sandy makes it less affordable.

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

172 Responses to Paying the Sandy Tax

  1. grim says:

    From the APP:

    Christie addresses Sandy’s impact on property taxes

    Gov. Chris Christie met today at the Statehouse with the Senate and Assembly legislative leaders from both parties and emerged saying they’d promised a nonpartisan approach to dealing with issues related to the response to superstorm Sandy.

    In his question-and-answer session with reporters, Christie indicated that one of the issues that might require a legislative response would be to have towns where Sandy destroyed homes to quickly reassess the value of properties so that people are paying property taxes only on the value of the land, not the improvements that have been washed away.

    “We had some conversations with mayors about the fact that we may need to do some legislative action to permit reassessment,” Christie said. “If a home is no longer there, it seems fundamentally unfair they should have to pay tax on the structure that no longer exists. So there has to be a reassessment, and for a period of time they just pay the portion that’s on the property itself.”

    Municipal governments’ costs for dealing with the storm will fall outside of the 2 percent cap on property tax levy increases enacted in 2010, Christie said. The law exempted some costs from the cap, including those for coping with declared emergencies.

    “If there are expenses which they incurred to get their town back on their feet, that is up over and above the cap, because this is a declared emergency, not only by me but by the president of the United States. So in this instance, those costs that are directly related to it are not subject to the cap,” Christie said. “But what I will tell folks is I’m not going to allow them to use this as an opportunity to shoehorn other stuff in there, and we’ll be watching closely and carefully. As the folks in Monroe learned, we will police the cap in ways that are aggressive.”

  2. Ernest Money says:

    BOHICA. Grim called this several days ago.

  3. Ernest Money says:

    A little reminder of where excessive taxation and gubmint meddling in outcomes gets you. Please keep in mind that some animals are more equal than others:

    “If May Day is when Europe celebrates labor and jobs (if any), November 14 is its opposite, bizarro cousin as today Europe wakes up to a dead(er than usual) economy. The reason: virtually every European country is on strike. From BusinessWeek: “Spanish workers staged a second general strike this year as unions across Europe prepared the biggest coordinated protests yet against budget cuts that policy makers say are needed to end the region’s debt crisis. In Spain, unions said most auto and metal workers joined the strike, even as power demand was just 13 percent below usual. One of Portugal’s two biggest labor groups also called a strike, partial walkouts are planned in Greece and Italy, and French unions are urging workers to join protest marches. “This is a strike against the suicidal economic policies of the government,” Ignacio Fernandez Toxo, head of Spain’s CCOO union, told supporters late yesterday.” In other words, Europe’s economy which is already doing swimmingly, is about to see 1/60th of its Q4 GDP removed as virtually no economic goods or services are produced today.”

  4. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Storm Costs Wreak Havoc With Budgets

    In Long Island’s Nassau County, where shaky local government finances are under state control, Sandy’s economic toll could double the county’s $25 million budget deficit, the local comptroller said. In New Jersey, where the economy has lagged behind the nation, the devastation has complicated Gov. Chris Christie’s plan to cut taxes.

    And in Long Beach, where the City Council voted this year to declare a fiscal crisis, the storm-related costs are estimated at $200 million, dwarfing the oceanfront city’s $88 million total annual budget, city officials said.

    Sandy has dealt a severe blow to local governments that were already on the brink, pushing some to consider adding debt or raising taxes to pay for the storm and others to consider cutting cherished services such as police and firefighters.

    “This would exacerbate the fiscal problems they’re already facing,” said New York State Association of Counties spokesman Mark LaVigne. “It will reduce sales tax revenues for last quarter of fiscal year, it will take some properties off tax rolls, it has increased the needs for programs and services counties provide.”

    Officials are optimistic that they would be reimbursed for most storm-related costs, such as extra overtime for emergency personnel and infrastructure repair. The Federal Emergency Management Agency generally reimburses local governments for 75% of the costs for disaster expenses, but New York and New Jersey are seeking 100%.

  5. grim says:

    From Reuters:

    New Jersey officials mum on amount of Sandy damages

    Jersey is still not releasing estimates of how much economic damage Superstorm Sandy caused as it wants to take its time to get the most accurate numbers possible, the state’s top budget official said on Tuesday.

    The estimates – particularly about how much tax revenue the state could lose in the near future because of the storm – are likely to affect the state budget and Republican Governor Chris Christie’s hopes for a tax cut.

    “We’re being extraordinarily careful not to overstate or misrepresent the numbers,” New Jersey Treasurer Andrew Sidamon-Eristoff said on Tuesday at an economic forum in Trenton, the state capital.

    In contrast, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Monday that he plans to ask the federal government for $30 billion in disaster aid to help with the recovery for New York City, Long Island and other devastated areas of the state.

    And New York City Comptroller John Liu said within days of the storm that the city was permanently losing $200 million a day in economic activity, with that amount likely to top out at about $1 billion.

  6. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  7. can i AX a question? says:

    is Jamie Dimon still up for running Treasury or is he waiting another 4 (12?) yrs?

  8. Anon E. Moose says:

    Fab [165, prev thread];

    With the changing energy field (Yes Chi Fracking has an impact). New more efficient refineries can be built.

    With the anti-capitalists in charge? We’ll both be dead before a new refinery gets built anywhere, much less a blue state. The only good to come of such a spectacle is that the rank and file Sierra Club howlers will get a rude awakening as the royalty they elected slap down their objections from on high since they are no longer ‘useful’.

    Bush didn’t hold hands with the Saudis because they are enlightened — they influence the oil supply. Huff and puff all you want, you’ll be squalling like a stuck pig without the oil states, and protestations to the contrary only betray a fatal combination of arrogance with ignorance.

  9. Brian says:

    Governor Christie was on the radio this morning saying Seaside Park homes fared better than neighboring towns during Hurricane Sandy. Seaside Heights as we all know suffered widespread damage. The difference? Seaside park has an engineered beach.

    He went on to say that some towns and their residents actively fought these engineering projects which invloved creation of dunes and beach replentishment. The reason? It might impede their view of the ocean from their homes. Now many of them don’t have homes from which to view the ocean. I imagine they’re probably regreting that decision now.

  10. grim says:

    8 – Can’t wait to see Jeff Tittle and the Sierra club fight against the next electrical transmission line upgrade that comes before the state.

    Who needs a reliable grid anyway?

  11. grim says:

    Of course, Tittel probably views the storm as the wrath of god against an unclean people. Serves us right, we deserved it anyway.

  12. 3B Buying says:

    #3 But at least the Europeans (whether right or wrong) do something, Americans do nothing.

  13. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [8];

    And speaking of Bush

    [Daily Kos-inspired ran about the Bush tax cuts, ending in] to ballance the 3.8T they cost?

    But the $4T Obama costs us in increase to the national debt, in just half the time Bush was in office, is all honkey dorey (oops, is that racist?). Enjoy your morning Kool Aid, blue, naturally.

  14. Brian says:

    10 –
    That battle has been ongoing near me. PSE&G has plans to upgrade transmission lines that go through Newton and the Highlands area. There have been signs on people’s lawns in my area encouraging everyone to fight the upgrade.

  15. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [11];

    Was just listening to an author’s podcast about a new book out studying the effects of environmental land use regulations (gotta save the habitat of the spotted tortoise!) applied to siting of ‘green’ alt energy land uses (solar & wind farms, etc.). Turns out the local Sierra Clubs come down on those just as hard as they do an oil refinery — they’re not pro-environment, they’re anti-development (alternatively, anti-progress).

  16. grim says:

    14 – Electricity comes from the magic fairies that live behind the wall plate, we don’t need transmission lines.

    Does Jeff know he can’t plug in his hybrid prius without the lines?

  17. can i AX a question? says:

    do they belong to the 47% that don’t pay taxes?

    “Since 1862, an obscure company called American Bureau of Shipping has been approving oceangoing vessels as seaworthy. The Houston-based firm reported $3.17 billion in revenue and just less than $600 million in profits from ship inspections from 2004 to 2010 and paid no U.S. income taxes on those earnings.
    The Internal Revenue Service hasn’t had any complaints. That’s because the company has been registered as a nonprofit for 150 years, Bloomberg Markets magazine reports in its December issue.”

    “There are 1.63 million tax-exempt organizations in the U.S., according to the Urban Institute. Nonprofit charities reported revenue of $1.51 trillion in 2010 from donations, government grants and contracts. Zerbe says that the U.S. Treasury could collect tens of billions of dollars annually in taxes from nonprofits that make money essentially as for-profit companies.
    One of the most profitable nonprofits is American Bureau of Shipping — a company whose members are the ship owners who use its services. ABS inspects 11,898 vessels annually. The IRS asks companies in its standard filing form to say why they are nonprofits.”

  18. Brian says:

    15 –
    “they’re not pro-environment, they’re anti-development (alternatively, anti-progress)”

    Sad but exactly right. I personally witnessed leaders of an anti development project use every avenue at their disposal to kill a proposed road upgrade near me. They finally won by tying up developers and engineers in meetings and town halls for so long that when they demanded an environmental study, there was not enough time to complete it….effectively killing the upgrade. The Feds required them to begin construction within a certain timeline…or lose funds for construction of the road expansion. They used the environment as their final tool to kill the project. I was really stunned when I saw it….brilliant on their part. Check mate.

  19. Brian says:

    The project was:

    Operational and Safety Improvements to Sussex County Route 616-517

  20. Nomad says:

    Why not just get a residential version of this product? Several companies including Google already use them to generate electricity.

    Hypothetically, we could then get rid of the entire electrical grid as we would all be self sufficient.

  21. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    Pundit Shaming tumblr…a collection of all those conservative pundits and their quotes that misled their sheep…bah, bah. The list keeps getting bigger and bigger…and Leon is getting larger…

  22. Fast Eddie says:

    Peace [22],

    You won handily, the people have spoken. Why the anger? You should be happy.

  23. Peace, Love, Dope says:


  24. Fast Eddie says:

    Ok, not anger… you get the point. It’s a done deal, your people pulled through for your president.

  25. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    fair enough. i am very impressed by your change in tone.

  26. Fast Eddie says:


    Lol! Thanks, but I don’t require subtle patronisation.

  27. 3B Buying says:

    Anyone know when the 3.8 real estate transfer tax ( to help pay for Obama care) kicks in?

  28. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [11] grim – After some informal polling, that’s the consensus in Boston, anyway;-)

    Of course, Tittel probably views the storm as the wrath of god against an unclean people. Serves us right, we deserved it anyway.

  29. Fast Eddie says:


    I still see the same handful of houses over the 6 or 7 towns that I’m eyeing. Not that a day or two was going to make a difference but there is absolutely nothing worthwhile being listed. The ones that are sitting with “6” labels are just rotting. The ones with “5” labels are really no better; they just have a smaller footprint or they’re horrible on a slightly smaller scale. I really don’t have a timeline although the couple buying my house probably sees it differently.

  30. grim says:

    21 – I would wager a guess that your approach would require a massive upgrade of the natural gas delivery infrastructure, to the point of digging up just about every road in the US, to accommodate the increased demand.

    Did you see the cost estimate for moving NJs electrical infrastructure below ground for residential? A million dollars a mile. I’d expect this to cost the same.

  31. 3B Buying says:

    #30 Fast: Same thing, although I am looking at the lower price ranges, may even end up staying in Brigadoon if I cannot find anything in the one other town I am looking at. Decided I don’t want to add to my commute, and do the drive to the train and all the rest. On another note everyone I know is working harder, all sorts of cut backs raises etc. I just do not see or hear this improvement in the conomy, but what do I know. Is you buyer still in hand for your current house?

  32. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [25] gary – I saw this in Boston after the Red Sox punished the Yankees in 2004. Boston fans lost their “the man is keeping us down” identity and they just kind of zombie walked around in 2005 not knowing what to do when their righteous rage no longer served a purpose.

    Ok, not anger… you get the point. It’s a done deal, your people pulled through for your president.

  33. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [31];

    First rule of government spending: Why buy one when you can buy two at twice the price?

    Solution: Do both – bury the power and upgrade the gas. (Isn’t that going to be necessary on some of the barrier islands anyway?) Write some more bonds, and stiff the bondholders on the bill (or print our way out of it).

  34. 3B Buying says:

    #28 January, 2013. But it is not an across the board tax; subject to income levels, investment income.

  35. Anon E. Moose says:

    Eddie [23];

    Because the left aren;t happy until we aren’t happy. Their nature is to be petty winners, petty losers and respond to candidates with petty issues (Big Bird! Lady Parts! etc.). Exhibit A – Nanny-In-Chief Bloomberg. I wonder if the residents of seaside-Mogadishu that is the Rockaways, now more than two weeks after the storm, wouldn’t mind a cigarette just to have something emitting light; or a big gulp to wash it down. I hear they can get salt-free fries cooked in trans-fat free oil … if the restaurants ever re-open.

  36. Fast Eddie says:

    3b [32],

    The contract states 90 days to find something plus another 120 day extension if needed. We are halfway through that period and we keep trying to find something but there’s nothing there.

  37. Brian says:

    31 –
    I don’t think those things have anything to do with natural gas Grim. I think we have a few of those things installed at one of our core datacenters in California. It’s a chemical reaction inside a fuel cell that generates the electricity.

    Our director was explaining them to me, I think our setup just offsets some of the cost of powering a datacenter. It’s not for redundancy (at least in our case). We still have a generator at that site.

  38. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [33] The ultimate “what now?” moment for Boston Red Sox fans came when they gave out their World Series rings in front of the Yankees at Fenway Park. When Mariano Rivera was introduced (having failed to put the final nail in the Sox coffin in 2004) he received a standing ovation and he just smiled and took off his cap to the crowd. Red Sox fans were like, “Oh crap. Now *we* are the masters of the universe. What do we do now?”

  39. Brian says:

    nevermind….the devices Nomad is refering to does in fact require natural gas. I’m trying to see if the ones in our California site do too…..

  40. 3B Buying says:

    #37 Fast: Hopefully something will break for you, and for myself as well.

  41. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I just thought of something. Maybe we are living in changing times. I don’t recall anybody blaming Bush for Sandy. That’s a first.

  42. Fast Eddie says:

    Moose [36],

    Let ’em drift in their own world of imaginary utopia. I had to sit down and figure it out from a logistics standpoint. Like I said yesterday, I’m simply going to collect the gains on my investment in the form of public resources. If someone can acquire a phone by merely inhaling and exhaling, then I can collect a he11 of a lot more by using a planned approach.

  43. Anon E. Moose says:

    ExPat [42];

    Sit tight. Obama hits NYC on Thu to tour the damage. GWB will be surely be dragged behind in effigy.

  44. Anon E. Moose says:

    Eddie [43];

    I fully agree with you in theory (in fact, the FEMA affidavit arrived in the mail today). Its just that when the rubber hits the road, you have a public union employee pushing the buttons who has their own agenda (Shirley Sherrod ring any bells?). In my case my family surname has Iberian roots. If Obama can put on the preacher accent when it suits him, and even Joe “Chains!” Biden can get away with that, I sure as hell can be a fair-skinned individual of hispanic derivation.

  45. Libtard working from home says:


    Hide your income.

  46. grim says:

    I don’t think those things have anything to do with natural gas Grim.

    They burn nat gas.

  47. Fast Eddie says:

    Moose [45],

    It’s there for the taking, you just have to find the right formula. And in the new American design, there’s a formula for everything. Just create a reason for a cause and the cause becomes doctrine. The self-interests groups are limitless. It’s actually beautiful, isn’t it?

  48. Fast Eddie says:

    Libtard [46],

    Understood! ;)

  49. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    Shirley Sherrod ring any bells?

    classic bubble talk

  50. yome says:

    It’s been several weeks now since Bloom Energy unveiled its “Bloom Box.” It’s a new and allegedly affordable solid oxide fuel cell that comes in a small package no bigger than a refrigerator. The point? To someday soon take every home off the grid. Or at least that’s the hope of company founder and CEO K.R. Sridhar. Beginning, after eight years in hiding, with an already famous 60 Minutes story and an official unveiling at eBay’s headquarters, the Bloom Energy Server has received all kinds of hype and some powerful financial backing.

    eBay, Google, FedEx, Staples and other large companies (20 in total) have been secretly testing the boxes for months to apparent satisfaction. The Bloom Box, which is now only available in commercial-sized, 100-kW units, holds thousands of thin ceramic discs with specially formulated “inks” printed onto either side. It works as oxygen comes in one side of the box, fuel on the other, and when the oxygen and fuel converge on each disc they create a chemical reaction that produces electricity. Simple.

    Fuel cells are nothing new but have always been too expensive for commercialization, requiring expensive elements like platinum. Sridhar and Bloom Energy’s breakthrough is the use of cheaper materials — ceramic discs made from readily available sand and a cheap metal alloy between discs. In the end, Sridhar claims he will have a small 1-kW system that could power an entire home for just $3,000, making it cheaper than leading renewable rival solar power and cheaply eliminating the need for the electric grid as we know it. With such amazing claims, it’s no wonder the Bloom Box has received so much hype. But is it really worth it? And are these claims really possible?

  51. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [41] Moose – Yeah, I guess he did kind of single-handedly create climate change when he beat stole the election from Gore.

    ExPat [42];

    Sit tight. Obama hits NYC on Thu to tour the damage. GWB will be surely be dragged behind in effigy.

  52. Nomad says:

    Grim –

    A couple of questions might be:
    1- long term supply and price of natural gas
    2- do a portion of the infrastructure in a minimally invasive way or perhaps build large bloomboxes at substations so you don’t have to run new natural gas lines to every home.

    perhaps the bloombox emits less CO2 per unit of electricity produced than a coal fired plant so possibly an environmental benefit too.

    CNG for cars – now the cost of a home fueling unit is > $5k and takes 8 hours to refuel. GE & Eaton are working on systems that cost $500 and take < 90 minutes.

  53. yome says:

    #51 is written for Solar Company Installers

  54. grim says:

    GE & Eaton are working on systems that cost $500 and take < 90 minutes.

    Heard that on Bloomberg this morning, was pretty interesting. Last time I was out in Poland there were a ton of propane converted diesels on the road. Acceptance was pretty widespread as most gas stations could fuel gasoline, LP, or diesel (conv and bio).

    Almost feels like we are a few steps behind.

  55. NJGator says:

    NJT started running limited service on the Montklair Line today. One train an hour to NYP and Hoboken and the trains have been running 20+ minutes late since after 7AM. I have never seen people so happy and jovial during a delay. We have been beaten into submission.

    So if we’ve ruled out raising the gasoline tax to help pay for transit damage, what do you thing the fare increase will be to pay for the 23% of the rail cars and 35% of the engines that some genius at NJT allowed to flood out by leaving them in the Meadowlands during the storm instead of moving them to higher ground. Anyone here think that even a single person will be fired for that?

  56. Anon E. Moose says:

    Dope [50];

    classic bubble talk

    Are you referring to the housing bubble? Because the media told us that didn’t exist either.

  57. joyce says:

    I don’t understand how that fit into the discussion.

    179.Fabius Maximus says:
    November 14, 2012 at 12:23 am
    #174 Joyce

    I think I am still, the only person on this board 6 years later that has called for the full repeal of the Bush tax cuts and I have openly stated that they should not have been made in the first place.

  58. grim says:

    56 – Oh good grief

  59. Phoenix says:

    If there is one thing the hurricane taught me, the biggest lesson was conservation. I was able to run my entire house off of one 2800 watt generator. With better choices in appliances, lighting, etc, I think I could easily get it down under 2000w. The older I get, the less my desire for things as I prefer a more simple life. I think at some point the solar panel price/commercial power ratio will change significantly enough to make them viable. Funny thing is we now tariff Chinese solar panels (that we need), yet refuse to tariff Chinese toys (that poison our kids with lead paint). I don’t see the logic in that.

  60. joyce says:

    Does your list, and that a large number of the population utilizes them, imply that these programs work and/or are effective? I would strongly suggest the exact opposite.

    176.Fabius Maximus says:
    November 13, 2012 at 11:54 pm
    #174 Joyce

    Ok, you want a straight up/down vote?

    Lets start with this list, feel free to add.

    529 or Coverdell
    Home Mortgage Interest Deduction
    Hope or Lifetime Learning Tax Credit
    Student Loans
    Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit
    Earned Income Tax Credit
    Social Security–Retirement & Survivors
    Pell Grants
    Unemployment Insurance
    Veterans Benefits
    G.I. Bill
    Head Start
    Social Security Disability
    SSI–Supplemental Security Income
    Welfare/Public Assistance
    Government Subsidized Housing
    Food Stamps

    Talk to the the probabale 90% US population that that list impacts.

    Step up and pick you platform.

  61. Phoenix says:

    [56] Those are the 23% of the rail cars and 35% of the engines that they wanted insurance to replace is my guess. I have no proof but those were probably the duds of the fleet.

  62. Anon E. Moose says:

    Eddie [48];

    My point is that we don’t know the formula. The ‘government job for life’ bureaucrats DO know the formula — namely what the rules allow and prohibit dispensing, where they can get away bending the rules without drawing heat to themselves — whether the bending is to the benefit or the detriment of any particular applicant at the whim of the particular employee.

    When I worked for the Fed Gov’t, my boss told me that there isn’t ONE Office of Federal Widgets… there are thousands of them, each occupied by one employee just like you. Policy will therefore vary on the margins from one such office to the next.

  63. Libtard working from home says:


    “I have no proof but those were probably the duds of the fleet.”

    It’s a shame some of the NJTransit executives didn’t get parked in the Meadowlands during Sandy too.

  64. 3B Buying says:

    Zillow quoting 30 year mtg rates at 3.16, just saying.

  65. NJGator says:

    Phoenix 62 – Here’s hoping that stupidity doesn’t count as negligence under NJT’s insurance policy. Even if they’re paid for, it’s going to take a good long time to get that amount of equipment replaced.

  66. 3B Buying says:

    #56 NJ Gator: we have limited service back on our line too. And I am thrilled, Hoboken Terminal, everything closed. It is a shame as they just opened a new food court 2 months or so ago. Paying 12 bucks a day for the Ferry! But it beats the alternative. Fares on NJ Transit will be going up dramatically next year IMO.

  67. Nomad says:

    60 – we are a nation so stoned on stuff we don’t need. the masses fear their loss of status among “peers” if they don’t own the right crap – too bad, once one rids him or herself of the stuff and opts for simplicity and functionality, their happiness level goes through the roof, sadly, few ever experience this. debt makes for a lousy pillow.

  68. Painhrtz - 42 says:

    Grim we actuually could easily commercialize all of those options the problem is regualtion.

  69. NJGator says:

    3B – 67 – I am happy too. Since NJT has a no compete with DeCamp, all Montclair got while the trains were out were shuttles to Weehawken and the midtown ferry . Problem is the travel time by bus to Weehawken was just as long as it took to take the bus into the PABT and the shuttle/ferry option was taking about 2 hours. And for some reason, NJT didn’t even publicize the nearby Allwood Park and Ride in Clifton as an alternative option, leaving people waiting for up to an hour to get on a DeCamp bus.

    We have a friend that works for PATH. Be prepared for a very long wait for restoration of downtown PATH service. They pumped over 5M gallons of water out of the tunnel between WTC and Exchange Place and are still assessing all the damage.

  70. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    60 – The older I get, the less my desire for things as I prefer a more simple life.

    Amen to that.

  71. 3B Buying says:

    #71 NJ Gator: I am expecting PATH will be out at least through the end of the year, perhaps longer. Don’t like the 12 bucks on the Ferry, but I will pay it.

  72. jcer says:

    71 given the money spent on restoring those tunnels after 9/11 you’d think they would have had plugs to keep the water out.

  73. Libtard in Union says:

    JJ? Where are you?

  74. yome says:

    1 NY Plaza is still out.Maybe till beginning of 2013.My son is told to work from home.

  75. Happy Renter says:

    [45] “I sure as hell can be a fair-skinned individual of hispanic derivation”

    You know, it’s funny — it must be something in the air. I have discovered that my children are Latino minorities. Of course, I will do all that I can to ensure that they are not discriminated against, and receive all of the preferential race treatment that Malia and Sasha will get.

    I guess the president isn’t the only one who can “evolve” . . .

  76. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    77 – that’s likely because your wife was banging the pool boy, not because you said so

  77. zieba says:

    RE: 68
    I understand exactly what you are talking about.

    What you are describing has been documented via numerous sociological experiments. An overwhelming majority, if not all, participants would rather earn $75,000 knowing that their neighbors are only pulling in a theoretical $50,000 rather than making $100,000 knowing that everybody on the block pulls down $125,000.

    Every time I visit family in Europe, I am always amazed at how life “happens” without a steady stream of Chinese made crap and sales. It’s so much easier to purchase a fuel efficient hatchback when there is no stigma attached to it (not for the fuel efficiency, or even size, but for the Jones’ factor) and you are not agonizing how much more you could get if you “upgraded” one step up. Consumerism culture is a really interesting topic!

  78. Brian says:

    What’s with the new handle Seif?

  79. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    dawning of a new era

  80. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [68] nomad,

    Can you speak to my wife?

  81. Painhrtz - 42 says:

    yome I can answer that german enrgy fluff piece in a very simple statment.

    The German population received almost 80% subsidies for the installation of solar panels which created a boom in opportunity cost for local Germans to purchase for homes and small businesses. What the article fails to note is that Germany is lattitudanaly proportiante to parts of Canada and their winter sun exposure is minimal. For the cost of installation it was not in your average Karl and Hedwig’s interests to install the solar panels because the return on investment is a losing proposition. Germany is also resource poor, and other than nuclear imports 80% of their energy fuels. Applying that here is ridiculous because the economies of scale does not make sense since americans can supply their energy much more cheaply with fossil fuels.

  82. Happy Renter says:

    [78] That’s a good story; I might need to use it if the admissions office raises an eyebrow. I mean, who knows, right? And if the government can’t prevent food stamp recipients from wasting their dole on ice cream and soda because it would offend their dignity, surely they cannot require blood tests to determine paternity when it comes to handing out race-preference bennies.

    “(sniff) If only Diego could see how fair skinned and academically successful his offspring with that pool lady owner have become, he surely would have been proud (sniff).”

  83. chicagofinance says:

    I looked at the wrong months when I estimated prior years. JCP&L more than DOUBLED the bill. So they are grabbing as much cash as they can up front. It must be kosher, because NJBPU is letting them do it…….to make it clear, if they gave me an actual read on the meter, my bill would be 1/3 what they just gave me.


  84. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [81] peace, etc,

    I’m down with that. I am already identifying opportunities. Gonna apply for a job as one of the writers for the revised Newspeak Dictionary. Or as a telescreen programmer.

    [45] moose,

    If I or my parents had the foresight, I and my siblings would have been listed as hispanic. All that recordkeeping came into being during my youth do it would have been easy to establish an official ethnicity.

    But no worries, my children will be minorities. In some states, they already are.

  85. Happy Renter says:

    Who’s Hispanic?

    “Here’s a quick primer on how the Census Bureau approach works.

    Q. I immigrated to Phoenix from Mexico. Am I Hispanic?
    A. You are if you say so.

    Q. My parents moved to New York from Puerto Rico. Am I Hispanic?
    A. You are if you say so.

    Q. My grandparents were born in Spain but I grew up in California. Am I Hispanic?
    A. You are if you say so.

    Q. I was born in Maryland and married an immigrant from El Salvador. Am I Hispanic?
    A. You are if you say so.

    Q. My mom is from Chile and my dad is from Iowa. I was born in Des Moines. Am I Hispanic?
    A. You are if you say so.

    Q. I was born in Argentina but grew up in Texas. I don’t consider myself Hispanic. Does the Census count me as an Hispanic?
    A. Not if you say you aren’t.”

  86. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    84 – once they ask your kids to dance the jig (pun intended) will be up. you can’t fake rhythm.

  87. Happy Renter says:

    [88] No interest in faking rhythm; just in getting preferential race-bennies.

    Silly wabbit — don’t you know that bennies come without strings attached? We have dignity that cannot offended. Now hand it over, gringo.

  88. Happy Renter says:

    [89] * “cannot offended” = “cannot be offended”

    Sorry; ESL and all.

  89. chicagofinance says:

    Shouldn’t O-man come on April 15, 2014?

    Anon E. Moose says:
    November 14, 2012 at 10:19 am
    ExPat [42];
    Sit tight. Obama hits NYC on Thu to tour the damage. GWB will be surely be dragged behind in effigy.

  90. Painhrtz - 42 says:

    my ancestors came from sicily does that make me part black?

  91. Happy Renter says:

    [92] According to Dennis Hopper, definitely. Get in line, compadre.

  92. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    89 – “We have dignity”

    perhaps…but no integrity. many of you are now claiming to start lining up for exactly what you have been railing against for years. SMH

  93. Fast Eddie says:

    Peace [94],

    The dem0crats have been trying to tell us for years that their ideology is the correct course. A lot of us now are just seeing the picture. Quite simply, if those with no income are entitled to government assistance, then surely those that funded the programs are entitled to it as well. Otherwise, it’s bias discrimination and subject to legal action.

  94. Painhrtz - 42 says:

    Or can I be a fake indian like Lieawatha Lizzy Warren

  95. Brian says:

    94 –
    Sh1t I’m always lining up for free stuff from the gubmint. Nothing’s changed for me. I never qualify though. Didn’t qualify for HAMP HARP BARF or whatever.

    Now FEMA is asking me what medical device I needed to plug in to get reimbursement for my genny. Oh well.

    Can someone forward me the link to sign up for one of those free Obama phones? Maybe I can save money on my wife’s verizon bill or something.

  96. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [94] peace

    Yes, we are lining up. No dignity or integrity claimed. I’m looking out for #1 and if voting your way gets me more, I’m going that way.

    The race to the carrion has only three rules: don’t break the law; hide your wealth; and toe the party line in public.

  97. Brian says:

    I’m sorta hoping my neighborhood will flood and a free fully stocked bar will land on my street. That’s the kind of free stuff we need around here.

  98. grim says:

    Now FEMA is asking me what medical device I needed to plug in to get reimbursement for my genny. Oh well.

    Easy for me. With a 2 week old newborn who spent a week in the NICU?

    Heat would be the medical device necessary.

    They expect me to take an unvaccinated newborn into a shelter?

    Pay up.

  99. Confused in NJ says:

    Israel launches Gaza offensive, kills Hamas commander. And so it begins.

  100. Anon E. Moose says:

    Dope [94];

    many of you are now claiming to start lining up for exactly what you have been railing against for years.

    Principles were overrated. Your side won. We’re just getting with the program.

    What’s with the new handle Seif?

    seif   /seɪf, saɪf/ Show Spelled[seyf, sahyf] Show IPA
    a long narrow sand dune parallel to the prevailing wind direction.

    Narrow — check;
    Alligned with whatever way the wind blows — spot on!

  101. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Obama drawing the line in the sand on taxes. Reiterating that there must be a tax hike.

    So if GOP comes in with a weak tax hike, or a tax hike coupled with austerity, does Obama rebuff it? Or Reid?

  102. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [101] grim,

    If a Dr. says its medically necessary, it should qualify. The device is also tax deductible in many instances or reimbursable from a FSA.

  103. Libtard in Union says:

    “Israel launches Gaza offensive, kills Hamas commander. And so it begins.”

    Damn those pesky Jews. There they go, ruining my portfolio again.

  104. Brian says:

    101 –
    yeah but did you buy yours in the right timeframe. My daughter just turned one (we actually had her birthday party w/ the generator running) so, I’m going to try that argument. What the hell.

  105. Anon E. Moose says:

    Dope [94];

    You should be glad to have some new wards of the state bowing to your superior morality and intelect.

    Unless you’re finally willing to admit that all the Robin Hood BS from you socialists has nothing to do with ‘helping’ the poor (because, despite the boost to their balance sheet, on the whole and in the long run they are ultimately worse off — lifetime of learned dependency and all that) and has more to do with sticking it to people you resent because they were successful.

    Whichever way, I get my pony!

  106. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    i am tempted to say “we are all smoking from the same pipe now,” but it just isn’t that cut and dry. i don’t currently take or apply for any government handouts (i’m guessing the last time i did was student loans but i could be wrong), nor do any of my lefty friends. we are all fortunate enough to take care of ourselves and that’s what we do.

    you don’t have to “claim” integrity…you either have it or you don’t.

  107. Libtard in Union says:

    Integrity and stupidity go hand in hand!

  108. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    110 – you have it all figured out

  109. Libtard in Union says:

    “We are all fortunate enough to take care of ourselves and that’s what we do.”

    You’ll change your tune as soon as your level of fortunate is not fortunate enough. On the bright side, when that happens, you’ll still have a cell phone.

  110. Juice Box says:

    Seems everyone here who has their hands out now for FEMA money
    are a part of the problem.

    Then again I should not speak I did not return my TARP Bonus.

    Everyone eventually gets a pony.

  111. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    many are claiming “well, now i need to put my family first…it is all about taking care of my family”

    what the hell were you doing before? you just realized that family is all that matters?

  112. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    you are correct. when i need help i would be happy that it is there…but i’m not looking to game the system when i don’t need the help. you take issue with that?

  113. Libtard in Union says:

    I’ve said it before, where my perspective comes from.

    As soon as the government started helping those underwater on their loans while rewarding the banks who provided those loans (as well as the cronies on Wall Street who made it all possible through collateralization) I was going for mine. Call me immoral or without integrity Seif. You are the stupid one (and yes these are strong words) for not realizing how unfair this was. When the Occupy movement started, I was really hoping that this was what it was about. I realized quickly after that the sheep were given enough crumbs to not get their hands dirty. Man are the liberals stupid as a whole. I bet you still wished Corzine was our governor. I wish Corzine was forced to pay remuneration for how he ripped off the good people of New Jersey.

  114. Libtard in Union says:

    Baa Baa!

  115. Libtard in Union says:

    Yes we can!

  116. Libtard in Union says:

    Yup…Keep those handouts coming!

    2:30 pm : The S&P 500 has slid to fresh lows after the Federal Open Market Committee released the minutes from its October policy meeting.

    The presentation reviewed simulations from a staff macroeconomic model to illustrate the economic and policy implications from announcing various thresholds that would need to be attained before the Committee would consider increasing the target Federal Funds Rate. Meeting participants discussed whether such thresholds might usefully replace or perhaps augment the date-based guidance that had been provided in the policy statements since August 2011. Participants generally favored the use of economic variables, in place of or in conjunction with a calendar date, in the Committee’s forward guidance. However, they offered different views on whether quantitative or qualitative thresholds would be most effective.

    The minutes also indicated that a number of committee members believe

    the current asset purchasing program will need to be expanded once operation twist ends.

    As a result of these comments, the euro spiked to a session high in a move which has been retraced since. Currently the single currency trades at 1.2755 against the dollar.

  117. grim says:

    Seems everyone here who has their hands out now for FEMA money
    are a part of the problem.

    I’ll go there.

    If you can afford a million dollar home on a barrier island in Jersey, why exactly do you need FEMA support? Why do you need donations of food, clothing, or financial support? Somebody has to pay for your hotel because your fancy beach house washed away? This isn’t Katrina, it’s what happens when Katrina hits Nordstroms.

    What’s the average home price on the North side of LBI, $1.5 million? Beach Haven? $750,000 vacation homes? Beach front? 2? 3 million?


    Yeah, I went there.

    (disclaimer: this post is trolling inflammatory/incendiary satire and not at all my position)

  118. grim says:

    BTW – I’ll troll under my own handle, I don’t need to disguise myself as someone else :)

  119. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    they are strong words but no big deal. apparently it hit a nerve…not necessarily my intention. this conversation makes me think of one of my favorite lines from “Wall Street:”

  120. Libtard in Union says:

    Grim is correct. How many of those people didn’t have insurance. In my opinion, if you didn’t carry coverage, you don’t deserve the government cheese.

    My sister’s summer home, which she purchased a little over a year ago in Brigantine, is seriously damaged. Guess what, she’s getting a brand new home to replace her POS bungalow. Pretty good deal for her. If the government was efficient, they would see to it that those in need would receive and those not wouldn’t. This is the same government that instituted the HOV requirement for the tunnel that that cost nearly every commuter in North Jersey an unnecessary 2-hour delay after Sandy. I’m sure my sister will get plenty of FEMA dollars. Let’s expand the program!!!

  121. Libtard in Union says:


    No nerve struck dude. Just don’t understand how you (and the vast majority out there) can think one party is better than the other and not see how you are all continuously falling for nothing more than slick marketing. It absolutely disgusts me. Can’t wait to retire to get the f out of this country of fools.

  122. Juice Box says:

    Grim – I heard that down in LBI the hold outs who would not sign the easement to allow the Army Corps to build up the dunes in Long Beach Island must agree to allow the beach replenishment or the municipality will not cover the cost of putting sand back under their now teetering houses.

    Anyone know if Harvey and Phyllis Karan house was saved? This couple sued and got $375k over the replenishment, because it blocked their million dolllar views. I wonder if their house was saved by the very dunes they sued against?

  123. Libtard in Union says:

    Juice…I think we discussed that here. My guess is that their house was untouched. Murphy’s Law in play here.

  124. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    124 – i think one party is preferable over the other; they are far from perfect. i am disgusted by the fact that no one ended up in jail over the financial crisis.

  125. Libtard in Union says:

    “they are far from perfect.”

    Always the excuse given.

  126. Peace, Love, Dope says:


    like i said

    Peace, Love, Dope says:
    November 14, 2012 at 2:35 pm
    110 – you have it all figured out

  127. joyce says:

    That, is always the excuse given. pathetic

    127.Peace, Love, Dope says:
    November 14, 2012 at 3:04 pm
    i think one party is preferable over the other

  128. joyce says:

    And it’s not having it “all figured out.” It’s called being aware of the obvious.

  129. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    …and here comes joyce….BOOM!

  130. Anon E. Moose says:

    Dope [115];

    i’m not looking to game the system when i don’t need the help.

    Who says Eddie, Lib and I don’t need the help? You do? Who elected you king? More arrogance.

    I won’t speak for them, but I need it at least as much as any other gambler who spent FEMA money in the casinos needed it (and don’t bother trying to ignore the example as tin foil hattery, because even lefty Snopes had to admit the exmaple of FEMA money wasted were true).

  131. zieba says:

    One of my co-workers, who lives in one of the haughtier enclaves in wonderful BC, received an email from a not so close neighbor (or somehow received it through her child’s school),which asked for donations to help them overcome the devastating effect of Sandy on their beach front summer home. The email, and I sh*t you not, asked for donations in the form of gift cards from the preselected list of stores. Crate and Barrel was high on the list, as was CB2, Container Store, etc… !!

    She asked me whether I too thought the email came off as a little insensitive when all of Haughtyville was without power for 1+…

  132. Peace, Love, Dope says:

    133 – that is a fair point.

    i am all for you getting that help if it is needed…i am just not clear on how that has changed in the last week…if you needed the help all along then it was there for you.

  133. Libtard in Union says:

    Better call FEMA to replace the fences around the dunes though. Those are clearly gone. Here’s a check for $10,000.

  134. chicagofinance says:

    summer home? OMG….fcuk them so much….my co-worker lives in Bay Head as her residence and is fcuked……totally different……power or no power in haughtyville, they can suck it…..

    zieba says:
    November 14, 2012 at 3:21 pm
    One of my co-workers, who lives in one of the haughtier enclaves in wonderful BC, received an email from a not so close neighbor (or somehow received it through her child’s school),which asked for donations to help them overcome the devastating effect of Sandy on their beach front summer home. The email, and I sh*t you not, asked for donations in the form of gift cards from the preselected list of stores. Crate and Barrel was high on the list, as was CB2, Container Store, etc… !!

    She asked me whether I too thought the email came off as a little insensitive when all of Haughtyville was without power for 1+…

  135. chicagofinance says:

    by definition, everything that Israel does is DEFENSIVE, so to call it an offensive is misleading……

    Confused in NJ says:
    November 14, 2012 at 2:01 pm
    Israel launches Gaza offensive, kills Hamas commander. And so it begins.

  136. Happy Renter says:

    [114] “many are claiming ‘well, now i need to put my family first…it is all about taking care of my family’ what the hell were you doing before? you just realized that family is all that matters?”

    [133] “i am all for you getting that help if it is needed…i am just not clear on how that has changed in the last week…if you needed the help all along then it was there for you.”

    What I was doing before was thinking of government handouts as a last resort. Not anymore.

    It is clear that me and mine will be on the hook for paying for unnecessary bennies for every loafer in the country. Now we are going to do the same — handouts as a first choice, not a last resort. All within the law, of course.

  137. Anon E. Moose says:

    Dope [135];

    if you needed the help all along then it was there for you.

    Stop being so static in your analysis. Just today “Apostle Obama” proposed $1.6 Trillion in tax hikes. If not for this continuing boot on the neck of the economy, maybe so many people wouldn’t need the help. For my own case, I’d prefer to not need the help, but cutting may taxes to free up my resources to address my own needs doesn’t employ nearly as many loyal unionized apparatchiks as the socialist model.

    Anyway, since its now clear that this is the way its going to be (for the next 4 years, at least), at the very least I want my pony.

  138. Fast Eddie says:


    It doesn’t matter why opinions and beliefs changed in the last week. What matters is that those who funded the system year after year against their will are now demanding their return on investment. We didn’t have any say on who got a piece of the action so no one should be asking why we want a piece of action as well. Simple, isn’t it?

  139. zieba says:

    There were multiple things wrong with that letter:

    -direct solicitation of financial donations – Really? Call your in-laws first.

    -restricting, or even suggesting, that gift cards be from decidedly upscale retailers – if your beach home was dragged away and deposited on Brian’s lawn, and your personal situation is so despondent that you need to turn to the public for help, you need not worry whether your dinner table is MDF particleboard from Ikea or some salvage wood sourced piece from Crate&Barrel.

  140. Libtard in Union says:

    Market is finishing strong.

    Wonder if it’s the strikes over in Europe to maintain benefits are working?

  141. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Pleasant surprise:

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Poor management decisions by MF Global’s former CEO Jon Corzine triggered the brokerage firm’s collapse, while lax protections for customer funds contributed to the loss of an estimated $1.6 billion of customer money, congressional investigators have determined.

    Evidence unearthed by the House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight puts the blame squarely on Corzine, the panel’s chairman Rep. Randy Neugebauer, said in a preview of the report that will be released on Thursday.

    “The responsibility for failing to maintain the systems and controls necessary to protect customer funds rests with Corzine,” the report says. “This failure represents a dereliction of his duty as MF Global’s chairman and CEO.”–finance.html

  142. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I think next week is when I’ll start buying back equities with all the cash I raised by selling on election day.

    Market is finishing strong.

    Wonder if it’s the strikes over in Europe to maintain benefits are working?

  143. Painhrtz - 42 says:

    Maybe it is time all of us productive members of society performa margin call on our forced investments.

  144. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Red Bank NJ Edition):

    Jon Bon Jovi’s daughter arrested after suspected heroin overdose: report

    The daughter of Jon Bon Jovi is reportedly facing drug charges after allegedly overdosing on heroin at Hamilton College.

    Stephanie Rose Bongiovi, 19, was arrested in Upstate New York early this morning, reports WKTV. The Town of Kirkland Police Department told the local news station that officers responded to the Dunham Dorm around 1:51 a.m. this morning to assist medical personnel with a report of a female who had allegedly overdosed on heroin and was unresponsive.

    After a search a drug task force found a small quantity of heroin along with marijuana and drug paraphernalia.

    Stephanie was arrested for possession of a controlled substance, possession of marijuana and criminally using drug paraphernalia, all misdemeanors. She was eventually released from custody and ordered to appear in court at a later date.

    Kirkland Police said two students from the college were arrested. Ian S. Grant, 21, of Red Bank, New Jersey, was charged with seventh-degree criminal possession of a controlled substance.

    Hamilton College released a statement to WKTV: “In addition to violating state law, the actions alleged to have been committed by the students violate Hamilton College policy. The college is cooperating with the police investigation. Our first concern is always for the safety of our students. Out of respect for the privacy of our students and in accordance with federal regulations we do not discuss individual health or disciplinary matters.”

    Stephanie is the rock star’s only daughter and the oldest of his four children with wife Dorothea Hurley.

  145. NJGator says:

    Ten bucks says this Brooklyn mom will be in Montklair within 5 years.

  146. grim says:

    Glad my parents came back from Israel on Saturday.

  147. joyce says:


    What the heck is 7th degree criminal possession? Christ

  148. Fast Eddie says:


    I just did a quick search for new inventory online and heard crickets chirping as a unicorn ran by my computer screen leaving a trail of skittles.

  149. Juice Box says:

    re: #148 – Heroin overdose via injection too, girl is lucky to be alive.

  150. I am totally down just read the simple, being gigantic might not be enough of attention getter by now, make them all red accompanied by a yellow deer!!

  151. relo says:

    33: Expat,

    Ditto. Neighbors of ours were from the Cape. Sweet old couple. Brought them a bottle of Champagne after they won. He literally didn’t know how to react. I said ” you get used to it after the 10th time or so”.

  152. BearsFan says:

    152 – Eddie – yup, been that way for over a month where i’m lookin down in Monmouth county. I feel for ya if you are UTG to find something…

  153. yowwrmbpl says:

    [url=]ugg boots[/url] – ugg boots uk

  154. Libtard at home says:

    For what it’s worth Gary, inventory sucked when we were looking too. Sometimes, a great deal just falls into your lap. Just don’t compromise, even if it means you’ll lose your potential sale. You can always find another buyer buy lowering the price slightly. Now keep on looking. Three years it took us. I hope you can find yours quicker.

  155. relo says:

    92: Pain,

    According to Clifford Worley you are part, well, you know. Good to have you aboard!

  156. Ernest Money says:

    Had a meeting with my absentee (and self-congratulatory) ownership today. They ordered up some plans for next year’s business based on the assumption that “the economy is going to get better”.

    I choked down the first impulse to ask, “upon what data do you base that assumption”, and just smiled and nodded my head.

    When the toilet goes into full drain mode, I’m gonna have me some nice stuff to drink.

  157. Ernest Money says:

    In fact, I’m going to drink all their nice stuff and shoot them if they get within 250 yards of me.

  158. Ernest Money says:

    Officer, they looked like looters…!

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  160. Confused in NJ says:

    Eurozone back in recession in Q3. And so it begins!

  161. Ernest Money says:

    Urrp is toast. Next stop for the vultures is here.

  162. Ernest Money says:

    Gonna spend my day off scrounging for more gubmint cheese.

    Looks like our soci@list/fascist dictatorship has run out of rich people to fleece.

  163. Fabius Maximus says:

    “they are far from perfect.” Always the excuse given.

    And on the otherside there is “We know Bush was a bad president, but …”

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