Not rebuilding is not an option

From the Star Ledger:

Building boom won’t help N.J. economy if Shore doesn’t bounce back, committee says

New Jersey will experience a post-Sandy building boom, but it won’t help the overall state economy if the Shore doesn’t do well, an economist told a state legislative committee Thursday.

Hurricane Sandy caused at least $8.25 billion in damages to homes in New Jersey, creating job opportunities for the construction industry and related businesses, economist Jeff Otteau told the Assembly Commerce and Economic Development Committee.

“That will create jobs. That will put people to work,” he said during his mostly gloomy testimony.

That damage estimate, from insurance companies, does not take into account homes that were not insured, Otteau said, noting more than half the damaged homes in the state were insured.

The Jersey Shore’s economy makes up 6 percent of the overall state economy, “a big deal,” Otteau told the committee. If the Shore’s economy shrinks more than 14 percent, there would almost certainly be a decline in the state economy, a scenario that most likely will come to fruition because recovery will take years, Otteau said.

“My hope is that your committee will find ways to accelerate the recovery process,” he said.

AJ Sabath, a spokesman for the New Jersey Building and Construction Trades Council, said a boom would help the building trades, which was in the throes of a 30 percent to 50 percent unemployment rate before Sandy hit.

Dave Fisher, treasurer of the New Jersey Builders Association, said the state should come up with ways to reduce regulatory burdens and costs, streamline the permitting and inspection processes and regionalize the disaster planning and permitting processes. He also urged committee members to consider supporting a sales tax holiday for building materials and supplies or at least reduce the sales tax on those items.

Committee Chairman Albert Coutinho (D-Essex) said he couldn’t promise any immediate solutions to her problems or the challenges to other business owners but said the committee is gathering information to help towns and businesses the get the assistance they need.

“I get it loud and clear,” he said. “Time is of the essence.”

This entry was posted in Housing Recovery, New Development, Shore Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

129 Responses to Not rebuilding is not an option

  1. grim says:

    Did I miss the comments on the Fed linking interest rate hikes to unemployment?

    Status quo ’till 6.5%

  2. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Housing’s Repo Man Is Back

    The good news is that overall foreclosure activity continues to fall and a decline in new foreclosures are leading the drop.

    The bad news is that the huge backlog of homes already in the foreclosures process, but long delayed, are finally going back to the banks in big numbers.

    Bank repossessions jumped 11% in November month-to-month and rose 5% from November of 2011, according to RealtyTrac. That marks the first annual jump in just over two years.

    “Foreclosures are continuing to hobble the U.S. housing market as lenders finally seize properties that started the process a year or two ago — and much longer in some cases,” notes RealtyTrac’s Daren Blomquist.

    The surge in overall bank repossessions is due to big jumps in states that require a judge in the foreclosure process. These “judicial states” have seen far longer delays due to the so-called “robo-signing” foreclosure paperwork scandal, and are just now beginning to ramp up the process.

    New Jersey saw an 84 percent jump from a year ago in bank repossessions, and a 538 percent jump in foreclosure starts means those repossessions will continue to rise. The same for Connecticut, which saw a 95 percent jump in starts and a 60 percent jump in bank repossessions. The northeast will see the numbers go down briefly, due to 90-day foreclosure moratoria by banks due to hurricane Sandy, but they are sure to go up again.

  3. Ernest Money says:

    Another day in hell.

  4. 3B Buying says:

    The listing below was on the market then went UC. Apparently the buyers backed out because they were not comfortable with the easement on the property. My gut tells me I should not be comfortable with it either. Not to mention that I am not sure if I even like the way it looks (style, too unique etc.). The inside of course needs a lot of work, and it only has one bathroom. Desperation on my part that I would even consider it?

  5. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  6. Brian says:

    Kinda Chilly here in Hell this morning. Did it freeze over?

  7. grim says:

    Must be hell, tried to go out to dinner last night, the waits were out of control.

    We drove away from half a dozen places because the waits were half an hour or more.

    Really? Thursday? 7pm?

    We eventually ended up local and managed to get a table, but it was still packed.

  8. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    Grim it has been like that here in the Western wilds as well. Got a free night away from the kids and a local indian establishment we frequent was packed. no party no indian holiday and the place is never busy.

    money look at it from this perspective at least your not a realtor anymore and have easy access to high quality booze

    3B i know you guys are getting desperate, but I would stay in the passat over that place.

  9. 3B Buying says:

    #8 Pain: Because of of the easement?

  10. chicagofinance says:

    WTF? Trenton needs all the legit revenue it can….and a lot of the source of this money is out of state, so it isn’t as if it is reducing the size of the NJ pie……

    “He also urged committee members to consider supporting a sales tax holiday for building materials and supplies or at least reduce the sales tax on those items.”

  11. A Home Buyer says:

    1 – Grim,

    Also missed this item.

    Michigan Towns can choose bankruptcy and eliminate Union Contracts. Bad days for Labor unions in the Glove State.

    4 – 3B
    I actually kind of like that house. Shame that it is 130k+ more then I would want to spend on a house, and double what I would want in taxes. But other then that it’s charming!

  12. Sima says:

    3B Buying –
    I would stay away from stucco because of potential mold problems. My understanding is that some insurance companies won’t insure houses with exterior stucco for that reason.

  13. 3B Buying says:

    #12 Sima: Thanks. I was not aware of that.

  14. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    3B easement, Oradell, ugly in that order. I can look past ugly but the other two seal the deal.

  15. nwnj says:

    #13 You’re overanalysis is crippling. Where is mold suddenly going to spring from after 80 years?

  16. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:
  17. grim says:

    12 – Based on the date of the house, I’d assume that the stucco is actually real stucco, and not the Styrofoam product that has the mold issues (EIFS).

  18. Sima says:

    But do insurance companies differentiate between the two types of stucco?
    I agree, I have no problem with the old traditional stucco, but the new stuff is horrible.

  19. Brian says:

    I already sent my deposit for my summer rental. Not rebuilding is not an option! I WILL get my NJ shore sunburn this year.

  20. Libtard in Union says:

    “REMINDER: The 2012 taxable amount of your bonus will be subject to the bonus tax rates of:”

    JJ…What’s a bonus?

  21. Libtard in Union says:

    Grim…you are right about the grid thing. I had no idea it costs that much. Man the gubmint must have done some incredible subsidizing for residential solar panels a few years ago.

  22. 3B Buying says:

    #16 Nice, but I would want the 3rd bedroom.

  23. Libtard in Union says:

    On the stucco tip. Our house was built in the 1920’s. No problem getting insurance on it. Only annoying thing is you have to repaint a bit more often to keep the old stucco from cracking/peeling. Find a cheap painter and buy the paint yourself when on super sale.

  24. Brian says:

    Surprise Breaking news:

    Report: Retiree, health costs draining NJ budget

  25. nwnj says:

    #17 I’d take my chances with a home like that, they were built to last. Likely nice floors below the W2W, cast iron radiators, even the interior plaster walls are built solidly. But good god, it’s obtuse. Something needs to be done with the exterior.

  26. Libtard in Union says:

    “Report: Retiree, health costs draining NJ budget”

    It’s for the children!

  27. 3B Buying says:

    #25nwnj: There is something about the outside, that I am just not feeling.

  28. Brian says:

    Good thing we spent valuable time, money and energy publishing a report. Now we know there’s a problem! Brilliant!

  29. grim says:

    You could make that place look real nice. A single color scheme based off the shelf white is not fitting for that kind of Spanish style home. It doesn’t help that all of the original detail work has been removed. It needs to have the board and batten shutters put back on, proper windows, repainted with the correct color schemes. I’d also replace the roof tile accents as well.

  30. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    Brian ignore the man behind the curtain.

    Of course it is for the children, how else will there be jobs if not to ensure the lives of retirees are properly paid for. Serfdom and indentured servitude for all!

  31. grim says:

    Get rid of the aluminum overhang, replace the front door with a proper door, etc.

    Really, it’s just been brutalized in the same way many of the local Victorians have been.

    Its amazing how ugly some of these houses can get when you tear off the characteristic detail work and cover them in aluminum siding.

  32. nwnj says:

    All the landscaping and lines are moving horizontally, I’d add some vertical landscaping to de-emphasize the “turret” which is contrasting everything.

  33. nwnj says:

    My other concern would be the grading of the roof, flat roofs are scary.

  34. Phoenix says:

    Teacher just shot in elementary school. Mock Meat all you want, but he just may be on to something.

  35. grim says:

    New FEMA maps coming out tomorrow…

  36. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    Grim I’m more curious if the USGS adjusts some of their flood plain models post Sandy or have they been subsumed under the beast that is DHS?

  37. Ragnar says:

    Stucco, not a problem if done right.
    EIFS “stucco” = big problem, likely rotting, likely required teardown and re-siding.

    I walked away from an EIFS house after learning about EIFS, but bought a stucco one.
    SIL bought an EIFS and spent $75k tearing, repairing, and re-siding.

  38. Juice Box says:

    re #1 Grim – the 6.5% announcement was just more cover for additional QE. 6.5% has been used by the Fed many many times in the past.

    With just a whiff of deflation the the Fed now buying up the Lion’s share of MBS and Treasuries, to the tune of about 90 tons of $100 dollar bills per month. A $100 Bill only weighs 1 gram.

    Fed will now have a net gain of $45 Billion in UST per month by buying of Long term securities (without sterilization of operation twist, no more selling of short term) + $40 Billion of continuous purchases of MBS for a grand total of $85 Billion per month, starting Jan 2013.

    Fed’s statement means no more short term selling of UST only pure buying of long term UST, so their Balance sheet is set to BUBBLE up again.

    Projected Fed balance sheet for end of 2013?


    The Markets barely reacted however, since people have been writing for months that this was coming it was already priced in.

    Dallas Fed President Richard Fisher just chimed in today and called it “Hotel California” monetary policy.

  39. Sima says:

    Has anyone used Angie’s List?
    How good is it for finding experienced and reliable contractors, etc?

  40. BearsFan says:

    38 – Juice, it really is hard to imagine things would come to this. Imagine saying back in 2005 that the FED would, in 2013, monetize $85B a month x 12 (which happens to coincidentally equal the gov’t deficit), no? There is no exit. Scary.

  41. yome says:

    My question is Why is this closed to 4Trillion dollars not circulating? Who is holding the money?
    The Treasury sells the bonds to the FED.The Treasury use the money to pay or whatever it need to spend the money.Who is the beneficiary of this cash?Why is it not circulating?

  42. chicagofinance says:

    In the past I have consulted on these type of projects. Complete waste of taxpayer money. As much as there has been acrimonious political nonsense, the Solyndra stuff is one example of a ubiquitous focus on agenda over economics, and a completely inequitable allocation of resources for failed technologies.

    Libtard in Union says:
    December 14, 2012 at 10:43 am
    Grim…you are right about the grid thing. I had no idea it costs that much. Man the gubmint must have done some incredible subsidizing for residential solar panels a few years ago.

  43. BearsFan says:

    41 yome – I’m sure the resident pro’s will chime in here, but the Primary Dealers are forced to buy Treasuries, and the Fed buys them from the PDs. So the money ends up at the treasury and on bank balance sheets.

    It is circulating only through the level of spending the US gov’t executes (deficit) and also a function of the Primary Dealers lending it out. They are not apparently. (Would you loan anyone $500K for 30yrs at 3% with your own money?) They leave large deposits at the FED and earn interest on this carry trade at the expense of every else who owns USD$. This is otherwise known as “theft” in a free market.

    That’s my understanding, but like I said, I’m sure the guys on here who are in the know will correct me.

  44. grim says:

    36 – There has been some press about Sandy impacting some of the areas on the ocean specifically, as those areas have flood zone classifications that are very different from the kind we see inland. Not very familiar with them, but I remember hearing something about them taking into account wave action and surge heights, as opposed to the typical designations (100yr, 500yr, etc). I think the fuss had something to do with the zone designations specifying a minimum elevation height of the home, so some areas would require raising in additional to rebuilding.

  45. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    BF there is an exit it just requires you to be dead, for the living there is no tangible escape. Not unless you can emigrate to a country without the debt burden but same level of freedoms

  46. Ragnar says:

    I’ve tried to use Angie’s List for stuff, got a subscription this year. I think it helped in 1 of 3 projects for our home (chimney?). Not enough users in my part of NJ for it to be very helpful. Maybe it’s more useful in more crowded parts of NJ.

  47. Brian says:

    Juice, I’ve read the conservative webites where they say that QE is theft because it increases the prices of commodities. Most importantly, they say, it increases the price of oil. This is important, because we need motor fuel to move goods and oil byproducts for much of the stuff we consume.

    So what if the price of oil doesn’t increase as much as feared or what if it actually decreases in spite of QE? Would the regular middle class or poor guy even notice or care?

  48. Sima says:

    Thanks Ragnar.
    I’m in western Essex County and I noticed that our A/C guys are advertising on billboards that they are on Angie’s List. (and yes, we do like their work so far)
    So I wondered whether to sign up.

  49. NJGator says:

    Phoenix 34 – Not just a teacher. 18 elementary school students and 8 adults.

  50. Libtard in Union says:

    Officials also told Miller that the suspect is around 20 years old who apparently drove to the school from New Jersey.

  51. BearsFan says:

    why can’t these f.cking idots just go after any crowd but a school. this is so terrible.

  52. BergenCo says:

    The shooting is partly responsible by a bunch of idiots in this forum. This is not for all of you. From an avid reader.

  53. Nomad says:

    I wonder if the shooter had any posting on FB or Twitter indicating they were planning this. In the past, several similar incidents had the shooter talking about the act on their social media sites.

    Is there not some type of software that will pick up certain word(s) and set off an alarm bell to tell parents, teachers and police before the tragedy happens and do these social networking sites not have some type of obligation to do so?

    CBS is reporting 27 people including 14 people are dead.

  54. Nomad says:

    14 kids

  55. Nomad says:

    3B – note that if you buy a home with Eifus and ever need to relocate for a job, the relo company will not buy your home. Risk of mold is too great.

    Real stucco is not an issue.

  56. Phoenix says:

    54 Nomad

    If you believe 53 Bergen Co, the “avid reader”, they should be watching this forum.

  57. grim says:

    Is there not some type of software that will pick up certain word(s) and set off an alarm bell to tell parents, teachers and police before the tragedy happens and do these social networking sites not have some type of obligation to do so?

    Yes, potentially, Twitter being the easiest. Twitter makes raw datafeeds of content available in a manner known, colloquially, as the ‘firehose’. A number of market analytics companies have access to the feed, and given enough horsepower it would be easy enough to run raw analytics against the feed to pull out specific keywords or combinations, potentially even sentiment analytics. Reason that its easier to do this on Twitter is that the vast majority of tweets are intended to be public, and are not restricted by any privacy settings.

    I’m sure the same could be done on Facebook. The Graph API allows you to pull back all sorts of content that your account has permissions to see. In the past you could yield a whole bunch of good content as folks were sharing publically, but as privacy has tightened down, the volume of raw data for analysis publically is low. Facebook would need to put something in place for law enforcement or otherwise to monitor.

    This would probably spur all sorts of discussions around privacy and civil liberties.

  58. Libtard in Union says:

    The shooter must have just read that Volcker report. Too soon?

  59. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    Bergen Co really there are people here advocating the shooting of children? A lot of what I here and I am among the worst is prepare theyself cause this Sh!t is coming. While a lot of us have no problem protecting what is ours, wanton murder and destruction are not advocated in anyway.

    I’m sure next will be the calls for gun control, and blah blah blah. If the jack hole managed to get two pistols in nj and drive to CT to perform a mass murder, I’d like to know the failure in the nations most restrictives states systems that allowed him to acquire said weapons.

    Heart goes out to the families of the victims.

  60. 1993 House Buyer says:

    #39, I use Angie’s list as a starting point if I have no recommendations from friends, also use the reviews to check those recommendations and to get an idea of their pricing.

  61. Nomad says:

    Thanks Grim – I get the privacy issues but I also wonder if Twitter at some point will get pushed to put some type of warning system (per your technical comments) into place – there has to be some type of argument to be made that if there is a correlation between what kids say on twitter and their subsequent acts of violence, that twitter has an obligation to alert the appropriate parties. At some point, the courts will hear this type of argument.

  62. Libtard in Union says:

    Angie’s List. I used it a few years ago. Didn’t find it terribly useful. The recommendations given here have been invaluable (thanks everyone). When I do work with a stranger (no reco), I always check the BBB website. If they are not there, I won’t use them. Also, never use anyone who advertises in the Val-pak or Super-coups.

  63. xolepa says:

    Newtown, Ct. Such a nice town. I lived two exits away off Rte 84 back in late 80s when I did an IBM gig at Southbury. My oldest went to Gymboree class in Newtown and we ventured to their movie theater once or twice. Very nice town, as it was then.

  64. nwnj says:

    If you don’t belive that three letter agencies aren’t already mining Facebook data then you’re naive.

  65. Phoenix says:

    Libtard in Union says:
    December 14, 2012 at 11:00 am

    “Report: Retiree, health costs draining NJ budget”

    It’s for the children!”

    Sometimes it is. Heroes don’t always wear uniforms. Takes more guts to run out into gunfire when you don’t have a badge and vest then when you do.

  66. zieba says:

    Post 67 reeks of so much BS it should be removed.

  67. 1993 House Buyer says:

    From WFAN, son killed father at home, drove to school, Mother was Kindergarten class teacher…

  68. A Home Buyer says:

    Go figure. Jersey Scum from Hoboken was the shooter. At least what the news is saying.

  69. Anon E. Moose says:

    Ragner [46];

    Who did you use for chimney? What did you have done? I’d like to have mine cleaned, but can’t find anyone local. The ones I see advertized are general contractors (roofing, windows, etc.) — some with sketchy reviews — and to come out to Morris Co. the prices they are advertising for a cleaning wouldn’t even pay their gas. I fully expect to be pitched a bill of goods for repair/upgrade, and after I refuse, get a half-a$$ed sweep job. I’d rather pay someone close by a reasonable price to actually do something for the money.

  70. zieba says:

    I did a Google search after reading 1993’s post:

    Tuns out FOX news splashed some kid’s FB photo claiming to have ID him as the shooter, without confirming the photo: It appears that they inadvertently posted the wrong Ryan Lanza, here he is posting on FB in defense saying it wasn’t him:

    Ka-Ching! for the Ryan Lanza pictured.

    In that short time, someone stole his facebook photo and started a hate

  71. Anon E. Moose says:

    Lib [64];

    never use anyone who advertises in the Val-pak or Super-coups.

    Coming from Capt Cheapto, that means something. Thanks for validating my suspicion.

    How’s the Civic?

  72. Libtard in Union says:

    Zieba…I agree it doesn’t pass the sniff test. Like the man who surfed down the rubble of the collapsing WTC and somehow survived.

    Nonetheless, this stuff always makes ones heart ache for the families of those involved and makes one question how anyone could be so cowardly. Humans need to try to justify acts which lack common sense. It’s nice to blame it on the lack of gun control or video games, etc., but ultimately there’s simply a bad apple that falls from the tree.

  73. Libtard in Union says:

    The Civic’s fine. I ended up paying some dude in Newark to fix it. Without paint, would have been $215. With paint it came out to $370. Won a bit in AC the day after it was repaired which way more than made up for the cost of the repair. Kind of like my own ‘hit & run.”

  74. grim says:

    Let me look up my history, I talked to a chimney guy down near Bridgewater a few months back in conjunction with a closing down there. Great guy, no BS, I vowed to pass on his info if anyone needed it. He was an old timer and called 90% of his industry a bunch of crooks.

  75. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [61] pain

    Been following the story all morning.

    ATEOTD, I think we find that the guns belonged to the father, and that junior, whatever his issues, decided to take him out and then went north to CT to off his mother. I’m guessing that the kids killed were all in her class. (I found myself saying “I hope I am wrong” but realized mid-sentence how utterly pointless that was.)

    As to the bigger questions, I don’t know what the answers are. I just don’t. I expect that trying to think about it will make me reach for the scotch. Or my girls. Or both.

  76. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [72] zieba,

    As much as I will champion Fox for covering stories others won’t, I hope he and his lawyer latch on like a terrier and take it to the courthouse steps.

  77. grim says:

    78 – Concur (on the second part)

  78. Nomad says:

    Anon – this guy is in Scotch Plains – good work, no BS and at least in the past, did not screw customers. Does sweeping, tuck pointing, caps

  79. grim says:

    Incredibly emotional response from O

  80. grim says:

    Breaking? Brother found dead in Hoboken

  81. Juice Box says:

    Grim link?

  82. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [83] grim,

    This story is getting worse by the minute.

  83. Juice Box says:

    Yeah twitter search shows CNN as the family member dead in Hoboken.

    Updated at 3:22 p.m. ET] It appears that another member of the alleged shooter’s family is dead. A senior law enforcement official familiar with the investigation says a brother of the alleged shooter was found dead in a home searched in Hoboken, New Jersey. We already knew Ryan Lanza’s mother was found dead in the elementary school.

  84. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Going to the bus stop now. No idea how to handle this.

  85. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [87];

    Wife said many more parents than usual at the PM bus stop today.

  86. Statler Waldorf says:

    He said F.U. to CNN, who apparently made the same mistake.

    “It appears that they inadvertently posted the wrong Ryan Lanza, here he is posting on FB in defense saying it wasn’t him:

  87. 1993 House Buyer says:

    #90..WFAN now reports shooter may have taken his brothers id, so who the shooter actually was may be up in the air….

  88. zieba says:

    Statler, my sincerest apologies for singling out Fox.

  89. Juice Box says:

    Eyewitness News now reports that 20-year old Adam Lanza was the shooter…

  90. gryffindor says:

    New FEMA maps? Maybe my shack that doubles as an office will escape the flood zone it is currently sitting in. Not that it will matter, I don’t think I will need a mortgage and thus flood insurance anytime soon. My due diligence seems to be uncovering some holes in the paperwork behind the building and now my desire to purchase the building is waning fast. No thanks to my lawyer seeing as I had to do all the reading and interpreting myself to uncover the holes. He just wanted to go ahead and order the survey and title and move everything along and finish the deal.

  91. Essex says:

    68. No that article nailed it. Sorry.

  92. Essex says:

    Fred Rogers said:

    When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, “Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.” To this day, especially in times of “disaster,” I remember my mother’s words and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers – so many caring people in this world.

  93. Confused in NJ says:

    Bloomberg is banging the drum again for outlawing guns for anyone who is lawabiding. He believes only criminals should be armed, as they ignore all laws. He also ignores the fact that 20 children in Connecticut would not be dead, if the teachers had been armed, or armed guards had been staffed. Amazing how stupid he is to think people who break laws will be curbed by laws.

  94. Essex says:

    96. Oy.

  95. chicagofinance says:

    How did the shooter get in the building? The building is locked when school is in session, and who would let someone in who is sheathed in body armor? Someone made a mistake…..

    Confused in NJ says:
    December 14, 2012 at 5:42 pm
    Bloomberg is banging the drum again for outlawing guns for anyone who is lawabiding. He believes only criminals should be armed, as they ignore all laws. He also ignores the fact that 20 children in Connecticut would not be dead, if the teachers had been armed, or armed guards had been staffed. Amazing how stupid he is to think people who break laws will be curbed by laws.

  96. Jill says:

    Sima #39: I use Angie’s List as a starting point. But come to think of it, my landscaper came through word of mouth because my neighbors used him. My basement was done by a guy whose signs I’d seen on a lot of remodels around town and at that time he had good reviews on Angie’s list and 10 pages of references that he brought when coming to do the estimate. Mine may have been the last job he did well; he went belly up six months later leaving a string of unfinished jobs. I called two handymen about my bathroom job and deck. The first one, the price was dirt cheap but the communication was awful. The second was pricey and he subs evrything out. I ended up using a guy from Newark recommended by a colleague. We’ve had some bumps about permits and insurance certifications, but the work in the bathroom is A-1 and he’s throwing a few little handy things (like swapping out my kitchen faucet) at no extra charge. I get the sense that he’s a wee tad shady but his guys are nice (one of them giggles at the mere sight of my calico cat) and the job they did with my octagon-and-dot tile is superb.

  97. relo says:

    These vapid “on scene” reporters drive me nuts. Reporting people are “upset”. Really? I realize you gotta fill air time, but jeez.

    Guns registered to Mom?

    95: Essex,


  98. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [95] essex

    Subject never came up. If it does, this helps. Thanks.

  99. Anon E. Moose says:

    Rosetta Stone Holiday Sale: Never thought I’d pick Polish, though.

    Leszek Balcerowicz: The Anti-Bernanke

  100. nwnj says:


    Fcuk you Bloomberg, if you want to start more rigorously enforcing existing laws, how about starting with term limits…

  101. ????????? says:


  102. Mike says:

    Good Morning NJ

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  104. Ben says:

    How did the shooter get in the building? The building is locked when school is in session, and who would let someone in who is sheathed in body armor? Someone made a mistake…..

    Chifi, after working at a high school for three years, security is one big facade. So many people are entering and leaving a school at any given point in time that short of putting a police officer at every door, you simply cannot keep a school secure from intruders.

  105. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    Reports are that he shot his way in. Question now becomes do we harden schools to protect against a threat equivalent to being struck by lightning or winning powerball? Do we seize property from the blameless because of the equally likely prospect that said property can be used this way? Do we offend our liberal sensibilities to restrain further the “rights” of the mentally ill?

    I don’t know the answer. I do know that no one “solution” will actually work.

  106. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    Nom it is like hunting down all sharks because 20 people get killed a year by sharks. More people are killed in car accidents but no body screams to ban cars. One of our good friends who is super intelligent and a good BU liberal stated that the 2nd amendment was out dated to my my wife this morning. I bit my tongue. To counter her point I brought up that Mexico has some of the strictest gun laws and among the highest murder rates. The Norwegian gun man did it in a highly restrictive environment for guns. No matter what you can’t regulate against crazy.

  107. cobbler says:

    Pain, one can reasonably argue that had the handgun ownership been limited to one per owner, there’d be 10 fewer dead kids in CT. Long guns have many uses; handguns only a single legitimate one – personal protection at a short range. Realistically, unless you’d had some special forces experience, you can’t use 2 handguns for personal protection at the same time – and if you are under assault by a group of people wearing body armor, even 5 won’t help.

  108. cobbler says:

    I’d been wrong:
    “The gunman used a rifle as his primary weapon, Carver said.
    Each of the bodies Carver examined were shot three to 11 times, and all the victims were shot multiple times, he said.”

  109. chicagofinance says:

    Since a motive hasn’t been disclosed, I wonder if that demented prick is a Star Wars fan…….just a wild guess, but there seems to be no good reason for that freak to go to the school…..

  110. NJGator says:

    I’ll defer judgment until after the investigation completes – there’s been so much misinformation already – but I have to seriously question why someone living with a mentally ill person would keep so many weapons in their house. Doesn’t sound like responsible gun ownership to me.

  111. Confused in NJ says:

    Bloomberg can’t keep 12M illegals from crossing the border, but I guess he thinks he can get them to not bring guns with them?

  112. Ernest Money says:

    Only way to beat the bad guys is to have more firepower than them and be quicker on the trigger.

    When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

    That is all.

  113. Ben says:

    What I’m saying is that kids in schools will always be sitting ducks for these psychopaths. There is no way to keep an intruder out. Besides, all the previous incidents weren’t even intrusions. They were students at the school. Not for nothing, but here in Jersey, we have about 40 cops per town. Why not just make it school policy to always have a uniformed officer at the school? I’m sure we could spare one suit to do that instead of having him driving around writing speeding tickets.

  114. 250k says:

    Sample question from the California Handgun Safety Certificate Test:
    “4. An important lesson children should learn is that guns are not toys. True or False”

    Much like the Bible, the Constitution and Bill of Rights may have been the best thinking at the time written but it is absurd not to revisit our faith or laws to keep pace with the times.

    2nd Amendment supporters better get serious about what it takes to acquire guns. 15 questions that a grade-schooler could answer without even trying doesn’t cut it.

    I do not believe the teacher in this clip below should be responsible for trading gunfire with a mentally unstable individual. It may take a few generations for gun control to fully become effective but this event has to be the straw that broke the camels back. Enough already.

  115. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [113] gator

    A jury is likely to agree with you. Serving the summons will prove difficult though.

  116. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    And I’m not responsible for 118, even if it has a great handle.

  117. cobbler says:

    Ben [116]
    First, the officer would have been the first person to be killed in Newtown – the psycho had been seriously armed and wearing body armor. Second, where else you’d suggest posting the police – municipal pools, Chuck-E-Cheeses, amusement rides, YMCA day camps, every school bus?

  118. Phoenix says:

    For those who like to wear tinfoil hats perhaps? It has been reported that although mommy liked taking sonny boy out shooting, no nearby gun ranges seem to remember them…….

  119. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [123] phoenix

    I have to admit, the constant and numerous fact changes in this story are baffling. I don’t ever recall an intensely followed story where there were so many wholesale changes after the story had broken.

  120. relo says:

    122: Might have made him think twice, though. And that may have been enough.

  121. nwnj says:

    #117 (250k)

    “Much like the Bible, the Constitution and Bill of Rights may have been the best thinking at the time written but it is absurd not to revisit our faith or laws to keep pace with the times.”

    Yeah, the constitution and bill of rights are obsolete, idiot. I recall you suggesting state control of private gas supplies after Sandy too.

    Let me make a suggestion, instead of repealing our rights how about you find a place to live that fits your philosophy. Communist China(and NYC increasingly) seems like a good fit.

  122. Brian says:

    About the mother whose guns were allegedly used……

    “Her former sister-in-law Marsha said she had turned her home ‘into a fortress’. She added: ‘Nancy had a survivalist philosophy which is why she was stockpiling guns. She had them for defense.
    ‘She was stockpiling food. She grew up on a farm in New Hampshire. She was skilled with guns. We talked about preppers and preparing for the economy collapsing.'”

    Read more:
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  123. nwnj says:


    And of course everyone who is a part of the family’s extended circle is now saying “no on could have known”. Meanwhile I’m sure the ex was sleeping with one eye open at night knowing these two were out there completely unhinged and armed to the teeth.

  124. Phoenix says:

    132 nwnj

    You are right. The scene is coming into focus.

  125. 250k says:

    #124 (nwnj)

    I will take the bait and clarify.

    >>Yeah, the constitution and bill of rights are obsolete, idiot. I recall you suggesting
    >>state control of private gas supplies after Sandy too.

    I did not say that the Constitution or Bill of Rights were obsolete. I said we need to revisit them from time to time such as was done in 1920 with the Nineteenth Amendment, which prohibited state or federal sex-based restrictions on voting.

    >>I recall you suggesting state control of private gas supplies after Sandy too.

    My primary issue with the immediate post-Sandy time period was that people who had emergency life-saving medical equipment to run or newborn babies fresh out of the NICU to keep warm, could not find gas to run their generators but their neighbors were having their lawns maintained by machinery that was using an especially valuable commodity. My hope was that as a society, people would choose not to perform non-urgent landscape maintenance but it was quickly pointed out that if the landscapers don’t do their job, they don’t get paid and if they don’t get paid, they can’t buy gas to run the generators in their own homes. Fair enough.

    I own a gun. That is the reason I know how simple the handgun permitting process is. At the time I obtained my permit, I was given a 40-page (large print) pamphlet to study. I stood in a gun shop with a pencil taking the 15-question test. I quickly realized that studying was not necessary. The question I recall the most was: “True or False: It is OK to keep a handgun out in the open even if children are in the home.” It seemed absurd but it does not take much more than that to pass the test in certain states. I took it upon myself to take a handgun safety class over the course of several weeks with much hands-on training. I couldn’t believe it was not a requirement.

    The media is bringing up Japan as a shining example of gun control reducing the homicide rate. It is hard to debate that their restrictive laws have been effective but at what cost? The Japanese have given up many of their personal rights, perhaps too many. My understanding is that unreasonable search and seizure laws are non-existent and the Japanese police search homes without warrants.

    I am certain that would not fit with my “philosophy”.

    As more details on the shooting are reported and verified, we will likely find this was an issue not just of gun control but how we treat people with mental illness in this country as well as other issues.

    Finally, you calling me an idiot really hurt my feelings. Someone needs a time out.

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