Thank the Rich

From NJ Spotlight:

Christie’s Luck: Income Tax Surge Bails Out Budget

Three months ago, Gov. Chris Christie’s budget was in deep trouble. His revenue forecasts for FY2012 and FY2013 had come up a total of $750 million short. Standard & Poor’s had downgraded New Jersey’s revenue picture from “stable” to “negative,” and nobody knew what the real budget impact of Hurricane Sandy would be.

Today, however, thanks to a surge in income tax payments by wealthy taxpayers cashing out before federal tax hikes and cashing in on a bull market, it’s clear that Christie has dodged what could have been a major fiscal nightmare heading into his November reelection.

Yes, the Republican governor had to downgrade his revenue forecast for the year by $406.3 million and push off paying $396 million in property tax rebates until August, giving Democrats ammunition for the fall campaign. And yes, he did have to give up the income tax cut that was the centerpiece of last year’s budget speech.

But it could have been a lot worse.

Christie’s bold projection of an 8.3 percent revenue surge in FY2013 was built on assumptions of a broad-based “New Jersey Comeback,” an economic boom that would transform a state that had the fourth-highest unemployment rate in the nation and had ranked 47th in economic growth for two years in a row.
Christie’s bullishness led him to certify a budget built on more than 25 percent growth in corporate taxes and realty transfer fees, an 18 percent jump in casino revenues, 15 percent more from the lottery, 13 percent higher inheritance taxes, a 6.1 percent jump in sales taxes, and 5.7 percent in income taxes.

Eight months into the fiscal year, corporate taxes, inheritance taxes and casino winnings are all running lower than last year, and even motor vehicle and gas taxes are down, reflecting a weak economy. But despite an unemployment rate that still ranks among the highest in the nation, New Jersey’s income tax collections are soaring.

It is just the latest example of the disconnect between New Jersey income tax collections and the overall economy in a state whose highly progressive income tax structure and heavy reliance on healthy Wall Street financial markets creates its own boom-and-bust state budget cycle.

Wealthy taxpayers in New Jersey and other states pushed hundreds of millions of dollars of income into 2012 to avoid paying higher taxes in 2013 and future years. On January 1, the top tax bracket on individuals earning over $400,000 and families above $450,000 rose from 35 percent to 39.6 percent, and capital gains taxes jumped from 15 percent to 20 percent.

New Jersey’s approximately 16,000 millionaires paid $2.289 billion — or 26.4 percent — of the $8.686 billion in income taxes collected in 2010, the last year for which the Department of Treasury provided its detailed Statistics of Income report.

Overall, the top 20 percent of taxpayers, who make over $100,000, paid $7.263 billion, or more than 85 percent of total income taxes that year.

Most states, including New York, have significant income tax rates kick in at $25,000 or less, but not New Jersey, whose effective income tax rate on those earning under $75,000 is the lowest of any of the 43 states that have a state income tax.

It didn’t start out that way. New Jersey’s original 1977 income tax, pushed through by Democratic Gov. Brendan T. Byrne under a school-funding order from the state Supreme Court, was a virtual “flat tax,” with a 2 percent rate on income under $20,000 and 2.5 percent above that – not much different from the 3.07 percent flat rate that Pennsylvania currently imposes on both families and individuals.

Each of the five elected governors that succeeded Byrne made changes in the state income tax structure that made the system more progressive and thus increased reliance on wealthy taxpayers.

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate, Politics, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

131 Responses to Thank the Rich

  1. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    N.J. February Revenue Helps Cut Shortfall to $194 Million

    New Jersey’s February revenue came in 9.5 percent ahead of projections, helping to narrow the current fiscal year’s shortfall to $194 million, according to Treasurer Andrew Sidamon-Eristoff’s office.

    Monthly collections were 8.3 percent higher than in February 2012, according to data released by the treasurer’s office. For the eight months ended Feb. 28, revenue remains 1.3 percent under Governor Chris Christie’s goal, the data show.

    Income taxes, the state’s largest revenue source, led the February growth. Collections were 5.3 percent more than Christie’s budgeted amounts.

    Christie said the most encouraging part of the revenue report was the increase in the realty transfer tax, which is paid when real estate transactions are completed. Collections jumped more than 50 percent in February, a sign that a turnaround in the housing market is starting, Charles Steindel, the administration’s chief economist, said in the statement.

  2. Ottoman says:

    Turn Xanadu into a casino/prostitution center and build that damn extra train tunnel extending the tracks to Xanadu’s front door. Atlantic City is functionally obsolete now that Pennsylvania has gone casino crazy so why not capitalize on the 15 minute train ride from Penn Station. Budget shortfalls solved for years to come.

  3. Jim says:

    You know the economy is improving when you read stories like this:
    http://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2013/03/retired_parsippany_police_chie.html

    Don’t read the comments , I think the taxpayer may be a little disgruntled/ biased.

  4. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  5. grim says:

    3 – Don’t blame the system just because you didn’t know how to play the game for maximum benefit. Ethical or not, it’s legal. Most of those negative comments were from people who weren’t smart enough to do it, or are jealous that they didn’t think of it.

    JJ said it best, Cop and a Teacher used to be the “struggling couple”, the unions still portray that fact. Starving teacher paying for supplies out of her own pocket, struggling cop walking the beat making a touch more than minimum wage while putting his life on the line for us.

    When in reality? Cop and a teacher, easy $225k a year in salary, pensions, early retirements, cheap healthcare, and massive payouts for sick days when they leave. Hell, probably closer to $250k a year when approaching retirement.

    Y’all a bunch of suckers.

  6. grim says:

    Forgot about overtime. Public sector is the only place in the world where you can demand overtime pay when clearing a $100k+ salary. I’ve said it before, I know cops who were bringing home $10k paychecks post-Sandy.

    For the rest of us salaried slaves, overtime, what’s that?

  7. grim says:

    AC is done, shut it down. NJ politicians don’t have what it takes to do the work necessary to turn it around. At this point it’s nothing more than a distraction.

    From the Philly Inquirer:

    Atlantic City gaming revenue down in February

    The dozen Atlantic City casinos reported $212.3 million in total gaming revenue last month, down 12.5 percent from February 2012.

    The latest month was a day shorter than the previous, leap year February, accounting for some of the decline, while any lingering effects of Hurricane Sandy were less clear-cut, according to figures from the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement. The storm hit hard in North Jersey and New York – key markets for Atlantic City.

    The financially troubled Revel, which announced Feb. 19 that it would file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy this month, ranked 10th among the 12 gaming halls, with $9 million. The $2.4 billion megacasino just edged out the much smaller Resorts, with $8.7 million, and Trump Plaza, $5.2 million.

    Nine casinos reported revenue declines, including market-leading Borgata, which generated $46.6 million, down 7.5 percent from a year earlier.

    The largest revenue declines were reported at Trump Plaza (41.8 percent); Bally’s (30.2 percent); and Showboat (27.4 percent). The owner of Trump Plaza announced last month that the casino had been sold to Meruelo Gaming Holdings L.L.C. for $20 million.

    Two casinos reported revenue increases – Atlantic Club, up 22.7 percent at $10.2 million, and Tropicana, up 12.5 percent at $16.3 million.

  8. Mike says:

    5 Grim I don’t know about smart enough, more like lucky enough. When I got out of High School cops and teachers were not making squat. Only the guys that could not do anything else became cops. JJ was right when he said they only made a touch more than minimum wage while putting their life on the line for us.

  9. DL says:

    Just discovered the agent I was working with in PA moved to another RE agency. The agency she was with failed to tell me she left, and after receiving numerous listings from her colleague who I also met, the colleague informed me she would now be my primary rep but only after I asked. I don’t know whether I ought to be concerned or not. The colleague seems to be ok but it wasn’t who I agreed to have rep me. Any thoughts from the board on whether I should stay with the agency or not are appreciated.

  10. nwnj says:

    #3 The thing(among many, incl. the sick day scam, which should be abolished) that I find ridiculous is how these town councils are completely absent in their responsibility to manage finances. IMO, they’re all colluding.

    Did they not know this guy would retire 18 months when they promoted him? Aren’t the police pensions based on high 3?

    Whatever the formula is, they probably gave this guy another million+ over the course of his lifetime for about 18 months of “chief duties.” And now they’ll do it all over again.

  11. JJ says:

    Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2013 to 03/11/2013 is 10.0%

    I cant decide if this hurts or helps Real Estate. Just looking at my account and up 10% to date. Meaning since 1/1/2013.

    I would think on one hand it would help RE as folks have a lot of greatly appreciated stock to sell so they can buy RE.

    On other hand selling an investment that has a higher rate of return than RE, losing liquidity and now paying around 30% tax. (20% cap gain, plus 3.9% obamacare plus state tax) is a big hit. I have to sell 260K in stocks to get a 200K downpayment. Then lose dividend and appreciation on 260K worth of assets

    I am doing it in name of diversification, trying to land a cheap “flood place” but buying a trade up home and cashing out given higher RE taxes and insurance post sandy is suicidal

  12. JJ says:

    Those who can’t do become teachers and those who want to do nothing at all become cops

    Mike says:
    March 12, 2013 at 6:49 am

    5 Grim I don’t know about smart enough, more like lucky enough. When I got out of High School cops and teachers were not making squat. Only the guys that could not do anything else became cops. JJ was right when he said they only made a touch more than minimum wage while putting their life on the line for us.

  13. grim says:

    Mike – I believe average for cops in the state is $75k at 5 years, and $100k at 10 years. That’s base salary. I know a number of cops in the $125k range, again, base. Average salary in my own town is approximately $120k, that’s the average.

    By 10 years in, two “public servants” will have a household income in the top 5-10% of wage earners in the state, this is hardly “poor”. In fact, this is hardly middle class. By Obama’s definition, they are “Rich”. This is aside from the generous benefits package and pensions.

    It’s gone from public servant to sweetheart job. Don’t for a second think that these jobs are open to everyone. It’s all about who you know. Just try to get your son in the door, I hope you know people.

    This is hardly sustainable.

  14. grim says:

    Rochelle Park for example, about 1 square mile, 19 police officers, average salary $134k.

  15. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    Sing it along with me, F*ck you, cut spending! This state has a spending problem. When the dolts get serious and fess up to it I’ll believe we are on the right track. As for now they are just eating their seed corn.

  16. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [7];

    Atlantic Club is the place Pokerstars just bought into. I play with a poker group that has been affiliated with PS for over a decade. Now that PS has a pied a terre in AC, our annual tournament was held at the AC. Not a bad place; I contributed my share to their revenues.

    Atlantic City will continue to exist, if only as a shell, because the new internet gambling law says it must be so.

  17. Brian says:

    Starting Salary
    The current starting salary for a trooper is $62,403.60 (including uniform allowance). The second-year total compensation significantly increases to $69,489.30. Top pay for a Trooper I is $108,847.13. Troopers receive yearly increments. All recruits receive $777.78 every two weeks, plus overtime pay. Room and board are also provided while training.

    http://www.njsp.org/recruit/salary.html

  18. grim says:

    And you think, for one second, during the greatest recession of our lifetimes, that the local police and government would cut back on salary increases?

    Pshhh. While the public sector hasn’t seen raises in years (I know some folks that would LOVE to see a single 2% cost of living raise over the past 4 years), the biggest argument in the public sector is how large of a raise this year.

    Disconnected from reality.

  19. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    Grim biggest mistake I ever made, family locally connected in Garfield could have been a cop, they would have paid for me to go to college and i would have been “retiring” this year. Hell one of the kids I grew up with bought a house in Franklin Lakes on his Garfield cop job salary. I make six figs and could not afford a house there.

  20. Comrade Nom Deplume, Scungilli Chef Extraordinaire says:

    “New Jersey’s approximately 16,000 millionaires paid $2.289 billion — or 26.4 percent — of the $8.686 billion in income taxes collected in 2010, the last year for which the Department of Treasury provided its detailed Statistics of Income report.

    Overall, the top 20 percent of taxpayers, who make over $100,000, paid $7.263 billion, or more than 85 percent of total income taxes that year.”

    Tax policy is a lot like engineering. What would profession think of an engineer that put nearly all of the weight on just one corner of the building?

    To quote Clot, this will not end well.

  21. Brian says:

    While my uncle was on the force, he was miserable and never wanted to talk about it. Not sure exactly why but I got the impression that it was because of department politics. He retired after 20 years on the force and now works as head of security for an office park in NJ. Now, he is the happiest guy I know.

  22. grim says:

    Lots of cops in Garfield making over $120k. Hell, lots of cops in Garfield making over $130k.

  23. JJ says:

    My old neighbor was a cop. He hated it but it was sooooo cushy he did it for money and to retire early. He went to college and wife worked at Morgan Stanley so not a typical cop.

    His favorite perk was if you are in uniform with a gun you are getting paid. Even if in own car. He worked the 7-7pm shift. So the moment he pulled out of his driveway since he lived in Nassau his shift started. He actually got paid to commute. He also had a uniform allowance, so they paid for his clothes. He only worked a three day week. He worked Monday, Tuesday and Thursday. He would say I do all my errands on Wed so I can enjoy my three day weekend every weekend. He got six weeks vacation, two weeks holidays and always used a few sick days.

    Now the average person in my town who works in city works 7-7 if you count commute, five days a week, they get three weeks vacation two weeks holidays, so they work 47 weeks of 5 day work weeks while he worked 42 weeks a year of 3 days work weeks. Around 1/2 the days per year. Then the average working joe works 40 years, he worked 20 years. So he worked 1/4 of the average guy with a job in city and had an average higher pay.

    It is a great gig. He got super lucky that lazy bum. He sold his house Spring 2007 at peak, wife was a lifelong MS worker, meaning 21-45 and she got laid off Spring 2007 with a years pay. He sold his house even though he had a few months to go as he thought RE was at peak. Sent family down South early, lived with brother for free last few months and Fall 2007 called it a day at the age of 47.

    550K cash for pos split, years pay MS, years unemployment MS, year of sick days paid out and a pension of 70K a year starting immediately, free medical for life. He bought a trade down house down south for like 180K cash, banked profits of 550K house. Knowing him he bought all 30 investment grade, treasuries, munis etc and is milking interest.

    Brian says:
    March 12, 2013 at 7:47 am

    Starting Salary
    The current starting salary for a trooper is $62,403.60 (including uniform allowance). The second-year total compensation significantly increases to $69,489.30. Top pay for a Trooper I is $108,847.13. Troopers receive yearly increments. All recruits receive $777.78 every two weeks, plus overtime pay. Room and board are also provided while training.

  24. Comrade Nom Deplume, updating this really old header says:

    [14] grim

    I’ve lived up and down the coast in every major metro area on it, and have traveled this country. With the exception of post-9/11 DC-federal areas and parts of manhattan, I’ve never seen a higher concentration of cops anywhere than in New Jersey.

    New Jersey must be the safest state in the country.

  25. Anon E. Moose says:

    Re: “Thank the Rich”;

    Fat chance anything like it will ever happen, but even a Hollywood leftist like Arron Sorkin knows it should. From the West Wing:

    Henry, last fall, every time your boss got on the stump and said, “It’s time for the rich to pay their fair share,” I hid under a couch and changed my name. I left Gage Whitney making $400,000 a year, which means I paid 27 times the national average in income tax. I paid my fair share, and the fair share of 26 other people. And I’m happy to, ’cause that’s the only way it’s gonna work. And it’s in my best interest that everybody be able to go to schools and drive on roads. But I don’t get 27 votes on Election Day. The fire department doesn’t come to my house 27 times faster and the water doesn’t come out of my faucet 27 times hotter. The top one percent of wage earners in this country pay for 22 percent of this country. Let’s not call them names while they’re doing it, is all I’m saying.

    (linky)

  26. chicagofinance says:

    What do you think?

    nwnj says:
    March 12, 2013 at 7:28 am
    Did they not know this guy would retire 18 months when they promoted him? Aren’t the police pensions based on high 3?

  27. Fast Eddie says:

    Stop complaining, you all pay the high taxes for the privilege of living here. Remember, we’re prestigious. It’s very competitive here. If you can’t handle it, then go to another state.

  28. Comrade Nom Deplume, updating this really old header says:

    Totally OT, tin-foil hat Alert:

    I knew about the ammo story, but this Forbes piece contains some additional details and analysis that I find a little disconcerting.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

  29. Phoenix says:

    The reason the cops have to be paid so much is to prepare for the coming times. When all hell breaks loose they have to be paid enough to shoot their own friends, neighbors and family members to keep control if necessary.

  30. Jim says:

    RE: 26

    Parsippany has had 3 police chiefs retire in the last seven years, the new chief will do the same thing. He is already over 50 and was passed over when the guy in article got this job.

  31. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    Grim and that is why I said it was the biggest mistake I made. in 2000 when I was making 40K a year as a junior chemist and paying for grad school I could have been pulling down 80 and not had a care in the world. Probably would be sargeant or some ridiculous rank by now and looking at retirement. hell would probably take a teachers job and double dip. Most of the retired cops I know live better than most middle class families, one just bought an 80K boat, lives on a 20 acre horse farm in Warren county, and drives a 60K dually duramax chevy. Being a corporate day laborer int his state is akin to serfs serving the king. Nom had it right time to leave.

  32. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    Don’t forget we pay the cops really well for the priveledge of having them harass us, make us feel like criminals, etc. Rarely do they provide for our safety, and I would never think to call one unless it is an absolute necessity.

    To persecute and enslave

  33. JJ says:

    My biggest mystery of NJ is why for every pound Rex Ryan loses Chris Christie gains a pound

    It is like a Dorian Grey thing

  34. Xroads says:

    Grim

    Cops also make a fortune from road jobs (sitting in car on construction sites) pay scale varies from $50-$130 depending on the town.

  35. Just Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [34] xroads,

    Hey, those road jobs mean I won’t have to take Dad in when he gets too old to live on his own.

  36. Just Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    FWIW, the township I live in , and a few of the neighboring townships, have no police departments. Our police Dept. is the State Police barracks in Avondale.

    Taxes are not so much lower, and millage rates are probably the same as NJ, so where is the money going?. Well, the schools are so much better, it isn’t funny. Unionville-Chadds Ford School District makes the Brig seem like Newark. And the township’s spring cleanup on my street lasted three days as they trimmed trees, cut back brush, etc. This is a dead end street that sees about 1o cars a day, yet it was always brined before each storm, and the unfinished portion of the road, which I don’t think is a dedicated road, gets re-graded anyway.

    Cops? No one here seems to need them, and with all the gunshots I heard this fall, it would seem to be a pretty dangerous place for hoods. Only bad side is that we have a lot of speeders and tailgaters who are not nearly as skilled at this as New Jersey drivers.

  37. JJ says:

    If Cops just had to work 33 1/3 instead of 20 it would solve a lot of problems. They could accrue 3% towards pension each year. They usually are like 24 when they start so I would say 57.5 is plenty young to retire.

    I would say make it the full 40 in my opinion. Even if you just do it for new cops it would sold a lot of issue.

    We are currently paying up to four cops to do one cops job. Imagine a small town with one cop, each one retiring after 20 years. New rookie today 2013, guy he replaced who retired in 2013, Guy before retired 1993, guy before retired 1973 and guy before retired 1953. Back in 1953 most folks became a cop at age of 20 after two years in military. That guy would be only 90.

    So we could be paying the 1953, 1973, 2003 and 2013 cops all at once. In addition to actual cop still working.

    Dont laugh when I say the 1953 cop is still alive. Back then the hard charging smoking and drinking cops married younger vigin Irish Italian brides who did not smoke or drink. My two aunts both almost 90 are cop wives. Their husbands long dead, but their pensions live on. My one uncle not a cop did the full 40 in sanitation. 23-63 and retired on a 100% pension. His wife has been collecting that pension for 25 years now.

  38. yome says:

    20 nom
    Most of the burden is with the top middleclass. The 20% making over $100, 000 contributing over $7.2 billion on the 8.6 billion tax collected. Millionaires contributed 2.2 billion.
    Though it does not make sense, you have 9.4 billion total tax collected between the topn20 percent and the millionaires.. To get a refund you should have paid more taxesbthan needed. Where is the bottom tax payers making lessthan 100k? I can understand the poor not paying taxes but your rhetoric stopped at 100k

  39. Just Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [29] phoenix

    I guess that is why DHS bought those APCs and all that ammo.

  40. Just Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [38] yome,

    Sorry, not to be snarky, but was there a point?

  41. Phoenix says:

    37 JJ,
    You hit the nail on the head. This problem won’t be going away in my lifetime, that’s for sure. My kid will be paying for the current crop until she is 50 years old. By then, game over.

  42. Just Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Off Topic Bragging:

    I am FB friends with my daughter’s old team and new team, and get the news from each. New squad took home the hardware from Nationals in Dallas. Old team took home the hardware from Nationals in Orlando. In two weeks, they go head to head in Baltimore.

    I figure she has bragging rights either way.

  43. Phoenix says:

    39 Com,
    Look at things like the Active Denial System. Microwave on a humvee. Used for crowd control. Crowd control where? Everything I read our military uses real bullets, real missiles, etc. They have no problem killing the innocent, children, etc. It’s war, I get it. Then exactly who did they make the Active Denial System for? Might be of some use getting out deadbeat squatters I guess.
    http://www.dvidshub.net/video/139338/active-denial-system-demo

  44. nwnj says:

    Cops always claim that they retire after 25 because you can’t be an old man chasing around criminals. Fine, then stick them in a school for the last 20 years and have them work for a living like everone else. They’re already being paid will full benefits so it shouldn’t cost anything.

  45. yome says:

    Nom
    I was just stating , the collection is 9.4 billion almost 2 billion over the 8.4 billion tax collected. And I was just mentioning the less than 100k crowd. They should have paid something . No?

  46. NJGator says:

    Scrapple – previous 63– my in-laws sold their CV place last year. I distinctly remember the husband of one of my college friends saying “I don’t know why Jewish people would choose to live in a place that looks like a concentration camp.”

    In their new place, Lil Gator had to press the PH button in the elevator to get to their floor. When he asked what it stood for, he was told “Pre Heaven”.

  47. Libtard at home says:

    Nom,

    Gator Jr. starts travel team this Spring. He is playing with kids a year older than him. Can’t wait to see him slice them up. Will let you know how it goes. First practice is Saturday.

    One other question for the BPL fans here. Would you play Cech@West Ham or Guzan@QPR?

  48. grim says:

    Cops also make a fortune from road jobs (sitting in car on construction sites) pay scale varies from $50-$130 depending on the town.

    I could tell you a good story.. I’ll need to anonymize this a bit.

    A friend was involved in a company that put on ‘events’ throughout the state. Events attracted a good number of participants and spectators, and many towns incorporated these into downtown fairs and the like. Good time, it wasn’t a money making endeavor at all, we did it because we enjoyed it. There was usually a couple bucks left over on the good days.

    Friend hosted an “event” in a BC downtown a few years back, worked closely with the mayor and town council to coordinate. The town agreed that they would fund the police presence necessary to close the downtown streets. Done.

    Day of the event, massive police presence, I think the whole off-duty staff was there. I’ll say we were somewhat impressed, and somewhat concerned. I say concerned, because in many cases, we were on the hook to pay for the police, and the $100/hr you mention is not off the mark at all. Event went off without a hitch.

    After the event, lead cop comes over to my friend, who was the “face” of the organization, and demands payment, a huge payment, 5 figures worth. Friend politely informed him that he should speak to the mayor and council regarding payment, words were exchanged, police were not happy.

    A few days pass, phone calls were made to friend demanding payment, he politely refused citing the council agreement.

    Get this. Cops show up at his HOUSE, in uniform, in squad car, out of juristiction, and bust in.

    Boy oh boy, you should see the settlement he got. As far as I know all of those cops are still employed.

  49. xolepa says:

    I wish we could change this subject of police benees soaking us. When I was in my late twenties, I lead a programming team which had many non-programmers, actually temps, on the project. One of them, a very nice guy about 24 at the time was struggling with his work. We hung out together somewhat and as an alternate career he expressed an interest in joining the State Police force. He was well built, looked right for the job, so I told him to go for it. He got in. We went separate paths later, but I always used his name when pulled over – it worked all the time. The statees always asked how I knew him and I told them the truth.
    Fast forward from those years + 26. I say hello to another state trooper at a Chipotle line a year ago. Ask him if he knows my old buddy. Trooper states he worked with him aplenty and the kicker – my old buddy, several years younger, is now retired.
    Now, that’s a quick way of getting depressed. Poor sucker me. Working my tail off all those years. The kid retired at around age 50.

  50. Juice Box says:

    re NJ Public employees.

    Someone I know was running a “shared services” program for one of the haughty counties back when Corzine was pushing for it. They could not even get towns to share a push mower. Simply because there was a job tied to that mower.

    Our current Governor is now pushing for Legislation to force the issue. I say fat chance this will pass, there is no way the politicians are going to give up their patronage.

    March 6th 2013

    MONTVILLE TWP. — Further stripping down municipal costs was one of the things on Gov. Chris Christie’s mind at a town hall meeting in Montville Wednesday in the Pine Brook Jewish Center.

    In a packed room of more than 800 people, Christie said he wants to pass a bill requiring towns to share municipal services to save taxpayers money, using his hometown Mendham Township and the adjacent Mendham Borough as an example.

    http://newjerseyhills.com/the_citizen/news/christie-targets-hometown-as-poster-child-for-shared-services/article_213eaece-868b-11e2-ab7a-001a4bcf887a.html

  51. Juice Box says:

    I fondly remember my Uncle who always said he “beat the system” when I was a kid, but I never fully understood what he meant until many years later.

    My Uncle worked for the MTA starting in 1960 and retired in 1980. For those 20 years he drove a bus up and down Broadway. As soon as he got in his 20 years he packed up his family and moved back home. By home I mean Ireland. He spent the next 28 years retired in a life of relative comfort fulfilling his passions of coaching, golfing and travel, funded by his pension and when he was old enough Social Security.

    For me I don’t think I will be retiring at 50 years old like him. I will most likely be working until I am 78 if I don’t drop dead before that, and I have plenty of cash and investments for retirement, it is just that I firmly believe the current course of monetary policy is going to make my savings and investments all worthless over the next 10 years.

  52. nwnj says:

    The off duty security scam just blew up in Pittsburgh. Police chief and others were diverting the cash and using it as a slush fund. The mayor was forced to withdraw from reelection.

    I wonder what the books look like in this state. Me thinks there could be some “discrepancies” after hearing that story.

  53. Ottoman says:

    Around here the cops sit at the highway exit ramps making sure the “wrong people” head the other way when they get off. All in all worth it IMO.

    We know the wife of an officer in one of those ridiculous fancy towns in Bergen county you’re always talking about here. He responded to a domestic abuse situation, got injured, and now has no use of his right arm. Its not all rainbows and kittens.

    As for teachers, the fact that New Jerseyans kept buying bigger and bigger houses so they never had to see their own entitled, dumb as rocks offspring is proof that teachers deserve the money for enduring 6 hours with the retards and not shooting them dead.

    Now if you really want a cushy job, suck Christie’s d!ck (if you can find it) and he’ll put you on the Port Authority.

  54. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    grim I would like to say I’m surprised but I’m not.

    Local cops up here in tawny morris county use the local parks for their evening sexcapades. Caught a bunch of them walking the dog. nice thing about wearing dark colors and not driving but walking to the park after hours. Also for our 22 sq mile township we have 30 some odd cops. to make up for the fact that they can not “patrol” the schools and parks they leave empty cruisers parked near them for days then jump in it and nail folks for MV infractions to show police presence. Everyone in town is wise to the trick so they only nail passers by. They also partol the Rt 10 crossings to keep the undesirables from victory gardens and dover out. When we first moved in I would get pulled over in my old beat up truck until they learned I was a resident. It is pretty funny actually.

  55. grim says:

    Did I say top 10%, should have been top 5%, or even top 2%…

    From Pittsburgh:

    The newspaper said the police Office of Special Events paid officers more than $17.4 million from Jan. 1, 2010, to Feb. 22, 2013. About two-thirds of the 850-member force work special details for events, businesses and construction projects. One married couple made more than $250,000. The figures don’t include officers’ regular wages.

    Or this one:

    A husband-wife team — the Gasiorowskis of South Side Slopes — combined to earn $264,649 in special pay since 2010. Sgt. Kevin Gasiorowski, 44, oversees the burglary squad, and his wife, Christie, 39, works in special events, the office that handles payments for details and sends out notices of available work.

    And this doesn’t include the “under the table pay”. Now, I don’t recall us ever paying the police departments directly, it was always cash payment at the end of the day, so I suppose we were paying “under the table” as well. Go figure, we thought that’s the way it worked.

  56. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    F*ck me 265K in pittsburgh. You could live like a king with that. Remember they are heros and deserve our undying appreciation.

    Ottoman, BFD some dude working in janatorial job could get the same injury. does he get taken care of for life? This hero worship sh!t needs to stop. they choose a career that affords them great pay, with minimal risk (cops don’t even make the list for most dangerous jobs) and an early retirement option. Does not make them above us, all the cops in this state or any one for that matter are publically sanctioned extortion thugs.

  57. joyce says:

    99.999% of their work is all rainbows and kittens. Cops are nowhere near the most dangerous or even stressful jobs.

    Do you have kids, Ottoman? Are they dumbs as rocks or is it just other people’s children?

    And yes Port Authority is another one, of countless examples, of do-nothing overpaid patronage jobs. That’s what govt jobs is all about. Here’s another fav example of mine… traffic court judges. What do they work, 4hrs a day, 4 days a month?

    53.Ottoman says:
    March 12, 2013 at 9:38 am
    Around here the cops sit at the highway exit ramps making sure the “wrong people” head the other way when they get off. All in all worth it IMO.

    We know the wife of an officer in one of those ridiculous fancy towns in Bergen county you’re always talking about here. He responded to a domestic abuse situation, got injured, and now has no use of his right arm. Its not all rainbows and kittens.

    As for teachers, the fact that New Jerseyans kept buying bigger and bigger houses so they never had to see their own entitled, dumb as rocks offspring is proof that teachers deserve the money for enduring 6 hours with the retards and not shooting them dead.

    Now if you really want a cushy job, suck Christie’s d!ck (if you can find it) and he’ll put you on the Port Authority.

  58. nwnj says:

    #55

    FBI is going to smack them down.

    Too much complicity in this state to do anything, it’s engrained in the culture.

  59. Juice Box says:

    re # 48 – off duty cop attacked a person I know in a bar, fight was quickly broken up. Anyway PD show up and and arrest only the person I know and let the off duty cop go even with witnesses etc. Person I know was treated badly in lockup. He sues and get a nice settlement, cops are still on the job. Person I know will never drive though that town ever again, he knows if they see him he is toast.

    I have another Cop wedding story too. I will save that one for another time.

  60. Juice Box says:

    re: “FBI is going to smack them down.”

    FBI is going to be awfully busy tracking down the people that jacked Michelle Obama’s ID and credit reports. They got Robert Mueller the head of the FBI too.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/hillary-clinton-joe-biden-fbi-chief-robert-mueller-beyonc-jayz-and-kim-kardashian-all-victims-of-online-hackers-8530582.html

    Best thing you can do for yourself is monitor your credit reports like a hawk. I can not stress this enough the credit agencies will NEVER respond to your complaints if their is erroneous info in your file. Make sure nobody has your info, it is too easy to mess with your credit by obtaining a credit card in your name and running up a tab.

  61. Ottoman says:

    Don’t misunderstand me Joyce. I wasn’t talking about your kids. Your kids are awesome. And really, really smart.

  62. Ottoman says:

    Pain, yes he gets disability but it doesn’t cover anything close to his salary and they had to sell their house and move out of beautiful downtown Woodbridge. He also can no longer be a cop because apparently even the desk jobs they require you to be able to draw and fire a gun.

    So blame the janitor for being an idiot and not becoming a cop. Blaming the cop just shows how jealous you are of him.

  63. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    wow Ottoman that is some logic you have there. They could leave? just saying I know a couple of cops on disability who live out of state none of them are on food stamps, in fact most are doing quite well. So save me the sob story.

  64. chicagofinance says:

    The lead singer is starting to lose his voice, but I want to hear the studio version of this…..fcuking booya Depeche Mode
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gheOuGpzYhI

  65. Juice Box says:

    Tell Bloomberg his science is incomplete and he won’t save 5k fatties from dying in NYC every year with his soda ban.

    Atherosclerosis it is in your genes and is not directly correlated to the amount of soda you drink everyday.

    http://www.nature.com/news/mummies-reveal-that-clogged-arteries-plagued-the-ancient-world-1.12568

  66. JJ says:

    Adam Ant just released a new album and is touring. Long Live the 80s

    chicagofinance says:
    March 12, 2013 at 10:34 am

    The lead singer is starting to lose his voice, but I want to hear the studio version of this…..fcuking booya Depeche Mode

  67. Brian says:

    Juice….this is one that I found sad and disturbing. This guy, a state trooper, was busted buying herion in Newark. The story doesn’t say it but I heard, he was in his NJSP car at the time.

    http://173.201.187.68/state/nj-state-trooper-jason-j-hanrahan-indicted-for-heroin-possession

    I was talking about this recently with friends/family as he was recently busted for heroin posession again (story was in the local paper).

    He’s also responsible for crashing into and killing two people in 2004 in Knowlton township when is cruiser plowed into a disabled vehicle.

    http://articles.mcall.com/2004-12-15/news/3567784_1_three-car-accident-police-cruiser-third-vehicle

  68. Ragnar says:

    I think this works for NJ politics and media as well. Adam Carolla says that some groups have a culture and responsibility problem. How does NJ compensate for it? Taxes the rich and keeps the poor on the government’s voter plantation.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/09/adam-carolla-rips-the-huffington-post-media-you-guys-all-have-blood-on-your-hands/

  69. JJ says:

    I took the Suffolk County State Trooper Test, pretty much highest paid cops in country, and Suffolk Troopers are the cream of the crop. Anyhow test was mainly a written test and had a lot of IQ type situational and behavioral questions. You also need at least a two year college degree. I was called to be a cop, to hedge my bets I accepted and had a start date at the Academy. Anyhow, a few days before my turned I backed out as although I was not making a boat load at 28, I felt if I became a cop, it was that whole cop lifestyle that was a turnoff. Also I like switching jobs now and then, being stuck in one job and pigeon holed was a little weird. I did however, regret is as I approached 48 as I would be retired. However, even at a 160K income as a last year cop with OT there is no way I could survive on 80K a year income. Costs are rising like crazy, meat, cars, fuel. 80K would mean I would have to go south, buy a cheap junk house cash in a place with no state income tax to be able to retire, if I stayed up here I would have to find another job.

    I am not jealous of cops only because I not only passed cops test, got called, I got called for the best cop force in country. It is a good gig, if I was laid off, or about to let go in my job when they called me I would be a retired cop now. Instead they called me when I was in the last year of my MBA program.

    But if I did it I would most likely be only cop with a MBA.

    Ottoman says:
    March 12, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Pain, yes he gets disability but it doesn’t cover anything close to his salary and they had to sell their house and move out of beautiful downtown Woodbridge. He also can no longer be a cop because apparently even the desk jobs they require you to be able to draw and fire a gun.

    So blame the janitor for being an idiot and not becoming a cop. Blaming the cop just shows how jealous you are of him.

  70. JJ says:

    So the Condo I am going to contract on is totally empty, which means owner is paying 1k at least a month to let it sit.

    I negotiated a price based on me getting a mortgage, home inspection blah blah blah.

    Now it looks like the comp that closed yesterday did a cash deal, other deal in town with a mortgage is falling out of contract as buyer could not get a mortgage approved.

    If you were seller, given this risks. How much off would you give for cash? They have no second offer, so back to drawing board. Summer is come quick.

    Owner is 81 and does not want to be a long term landlord. Choices are rent for summer make some bucks, but then stuck with unit in fall hurricane season no tennant. Leave unit empty and do some open houses etc. But each month you are out a grand and come mid July I notice prices dip each year as new owners dont get to use it that summer by closing then they have to carry it for a year.

    I am think 10K off is win win. 15K is even better. Owner gets guaranteed quick close, realtor gets guaranteed commission and I get a little extra for skipping mortgage write off. Plus I save like 4k in closing costs.

  71. Ottoman says:

    Painhrtz, you’re the one claiming being a janitor is just as safe and easy as being a cop. If that’s true, then the janitor is an idiot for not being a cop.

    Have you ever tried being a cop since you claim its easy money. Or are you an idiot, too? Its not that hard to make friends with cops or have your kids play with cops kids and get connected that way if you think you need such introductions. Or you could be willing to work in a far away town or less desireable neighborhood–you know like anyone starting out in a job often has to do.

    Of course, there’s no patronage in the private sector. None of the guys running Wall Street grew up in the same country clubs and private schools or anything. But then again we don’t give tax money to Wall Street. lol.

    There’s a cop living not too far from me that shouldn’t be able to afford to, yet here he is. His house is under the power lines so his kids are probably developing tumors, I guess that’s something. Now had his shooting arm been damaged, maybe he’d be in a two bed rental in Ocean County or Pennsy instead of living it up here. But you could always pray to Jesus that his eyes get shot out, if you’re so concerned with how he utilizes your tax dollars.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, my hair is soaked from the job creators trickling wealth (or something) down on my head. By the way, I’m doing my taxes tonight, what was the capital gains rate last year?

  72. joyce says:

    61
    Ottoman,

    You’re intelligence overwhelms me. I have no children, FYI.

  73. joyce says:

    72

    Another wow. Can I sum up your post in one phrase? ‘Two wrongs make a right”

  74. yome says:

    70 nom
    Ethanol drops the actual mileage the car is capable. It robs the public money too. We have to fill up more often.
    Is that what we call subsizing the american farmer?

  75. Pete says:

    Ignoring the question of whether or not cops are overpaid in general, I think its safe to say that NJ pays them more than need be. Comparing NJ to neighboring states and other high income states gets the following for average wages for Police Officers and how much more their salary is compared to the average wage of all state residents. This data came from bls.

    http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm

    State Avg Annual Wage % Greater Than State Avg
    NJ $81,970 59%
    CA $78,790 52%
    AK $67,400 31%
    NY $62,820 19%
    CT $62,340 18%
    DE $60,730 28%
    MD $56,500 9%
    PA $55,890 27%
    MA $55,590 2%
    VA $51,150 5%
    NH $48,920 8%

  76. JJ says:

    A cop is not the job it once was. When my uncles were cops it was a respected profession. Something that if a first generation man was a Cop he was the pride of the family.

    College was not an option back then for the working class back then. And back then nearly all cops were ex-military. In addition NYC had a height requirement back then and you had to be in great shape.

    By the 1980s being a cop was a step above slinging slurpees. I recall the one conversation I was having when I was 18 with one of buddies who was from the projects, large and black.

    He said kids have lost all respect for cops. He goes when he was little the Cops were all Irish, Italian and Black, only folk as he put it who produced Men regularly over six feet tall. They were strong and tough. Never went for their gun as they could easily overpower you one on one, or even three on one with a night stick.

    He then went on to say the newer asian and spanish smaller cops and females on the force have led to increased shootings of folks like him. He went I am six foot five, 245 pounds, I I am charging at you or running from you the little new cops got one choice that is to shoot me, they often panic being so little and end up shooting folk like me over minor crimes or mistakes. 20 years ago, pre-budget cuts Cops traveled in pairs and were all large men due to height requirements. If I charged at a Cop 20 years ago worse I get is a a few punches and a few smacks in head with nightstick. Today I get shot or get charged with murder if I get to the cop.

    Bars dont hire little bouncers yet cops now do

    Ottoman says:
    March 12, 2013 at 11:44 am

    Painhrtz, you’re the one claiming being a janitor is just as safe and easy as being a cop. If that’s true, then the janitor is an idiot for not being a cop.

  77. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    OK Ottoman Let me begin by saying if you read back I said I could have easily been a cop thanks to patronage, but I never as so much got an inside in corporate America short of connections I worked to make. Maybe I am stupid but in the grand scheme of things making a living off of the taxpayers that requires me to game the system for overtime sick days etc was not something that appealed to me. Nor do I have a particualry authoritarian streak or work on wall street so lets throw that all that out the window.

    As much as I dislike police officers i would not wish them harm, I have friends former friends and some family who have been cops. Never did I say above that I was glad your family member friend was on disability. Sure i am sorry that his/her quality of life is not the same, guess what a lot of peoples aren’t it is called an adjustment. Things, houses, hell even retirement pay are not rights they are entitlements. Salaries are contracts between two parties and guesss what the charade will come to an end sooner or later for our public servants. the kings men should no more rights than the citizenry. Unfortunately to quote Orwell some animals are more equal than others especially in NJ.

  78. yome says:

    What ever happened to the peak oil pundits. Suddenly they disappeared as fracking got more popular.

  79. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    Otto and one thing obviously lost on you is a cop’s job has no more inherent risk than most. sorry the janitor may have hit close to home but the fact of the matter is there are a lot of people out there on permanent disability who wish they were gettting 50% NJ cops salary. All cops are not heros and to treat them as such for doing their job cheapens what a real hero is. So they deserve no special priveledge when injured performing their job than any other schlub whether you agree or not.

  80. BearsFan says:

    I (still wrongly) work off the premise that determining if someone is “overpaid” or “underpaid” is not a matter of opinion, but by the answer to the basic economics question:

    Is there someone as capable/qualified to do your job who is willing to do it for less? If yes, then your overpaid. The application of this logic is only useful in free market economic theory, though, sadly.

  81. JJ says:

    Night Shift Gas Station Attendants and Late Night Car Service drivers have a higher death rate than cops. Sadly working at Dunkin Donuts or 7/11 on the night shift is more dangerous than being a cop and you get min wage.

    Painhrtz – Doc Daneeka says:
    March 12, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    Otto and one thing obviously lost on you is a cop’s job has no more inherent risk than most. sorry the janitor may have hit close to home but the fact of the matter is there are a lot of people out there on permanent disability who wish they were gettting 50% NJ cops salary. All cops are not heros and to treat them as such for doing their job cheapens what a real hero is. So they deserve no special priveledge when injured performing their job than any other schlub whether you agree or not.

  82. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    JJ I agree well they can wait for the blue cleaning crew to come and scrape them off the counter taking pictures of the corpse for their buddies to have fun with to the tune of 60 bucks an hour.

  83. All Hype - Mr. Oil, Mr. Gas, Mr. Coal says:

    Speaking of cops, I got a ticket for parking the worng way on the street at a funeral in Bradley Beach. I was parked right in front of the church! Love the shore cops. I know the town needs the dough but please…..

  84. Juice Box says:

    Anecdotal from another site.

    Put a few letters in mailboxes

    “Without getting too descript, we are currently looking for a place in the suburbs of NY. There is one specific street my wife loves, and the street is going through a type of revitalization with homes going for land value and a few new houses being built. We looking to do the same. There is one house listed on the block right now, and the owner is a broker. We offered them a slight premium to the prices that houses on the block have sold for over the past yr, given the mkt has stabilized and some may consider their house not a pure knockdown, but ultimatly our offer is about 30% below where she thinks she can sell it (about 50% above where houses on the block have traded a recently as 3 months ago.) and we were laughed at for our offer.

    A week goes by and another house around the corner the owner puts a sign out “for sale by owner.”
    My wife taking things into her own hands also put a few letters in mailboxes on the street saying were were interested buyers. We’ve gotten 2 calls already in 2 days.

    I still agree that the market has stabilized and is getting stronger, but as we’re finding out, if you rattle the tree a little, there seems like there is a lot of loose fruit still out there in a lot of suburban neighborhoods…..at least in the tri-state area. “

  85. Brian says:

    I would say suicide bombers have the most dangerous job.

  86. BearsFan says:

    85 – anybody have a template available for this letter? Is it just str8 to the point?

    “Hi, my name is JJ and I’d like to give you the honor of me buying your home.” or something like that? :)

  87. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    Bears that is all wrong it should start hi my name is JJ and I want to give you the priveledge of contracting a STD while denting the hood on my Mercedes.

  88. Ottoman says:

    7/11 night cashier must be an idiot like the janitor since being a cop is so easy. Really, if you’re gonna end up with a mop stuck up your ass on the job why not get shot by a disgruntled husband instead and clean up on the taxpayer’s dime?

    Personally I think you have to be a certain kind of asshole and/or sociopath to be a cop (or teacher). Which is why most people aren’t cut out for it and don’t consider either as serious careers eventhough they spend their lives claiming they’re cake jobs. Imagine if one of Joyce’s hypothetical ragamuffins came home with an A minus instead of an A plus. Lord have mercy on that poor teacher.

    Blaming the cops for government’s inability to build flexibility and equity into the public employee system is silly. Blame everyone who takes the home mortgage deduction then. Is that fair?

    Joyce, I’m sorry no one wants your eggs, have you thought about adopting? I have no doubt you’d raise brilliant little police officers who could keep you in the lap of luxury during your golden years with all their free time and bene’s.

  89. Brian says:

    Yay!

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hostess-sell-twinkies-410-million-article-1.1286028

    Without providing details, Metropoulos CEO Dean Metropoulos said in a statement that he looked forward to bringing back Hostess cakes “as soon as possible.” Metropoulos also owns Pabst beer.

  90. xolepa says:

    (85) For the life of me, I can’t understand why F.E. hasn’t taken that tactic. I profess every few months that you have to start knocking on doors, proverbially, in order to get what you want. All I read is complaints about how the market isn’t working right for him. No market will work right for any buyer. As soon as a property hits MLS, it’s over with.
    Ask me how I know.

    Please, JJ, ask me.

  91. ` says:

    91 – xolepa, I’ll ask. I def would love to hear about how it was executed successfully. I want a template and all! Do tell.

  92. BearsFan says:

    that was me in post 92, sorry. left out my name

  93. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [75] yome,

    Not so much. But very good for ADM.

  94. maybe buyer says:

    85 Juice

    Absolutely. In Westchester and NJ where I am looking, most listings are delusional but those moving are priced right — same as last year. So there are few sales and prices stable. Those who must feel the pain are realtors.

    ———————
    “I still agree that the market has stabilized and is getting stronger, but as we’re finding out, if you rattle the tree a little, there seems like there is a lot of loose fruit still out there in a lot of suburban neighborhoods…..at least in the tri-state area. “

  95. Police are nothing more now than a private militia, beholden to the politicians they help elect in order to keep getting more perks and benefits.

    Oh. Cops also act as a private militia for banksters.

    Talk about a feedback loop.

  96. grim (18)-

    The only thing that will re-connect the private militia (aka police) to reality are bullets whizzing by their heads.

    “Disconnected from reality.”

  97. yome says:

    This PWC study projects oil at $85/barrel real price in 2035.Oil prices is actually going to get cheaper in the future.Forget the Peak Oil gurus.Oil big importers like China and India can be oil independent in the future using Shale Oil.

  98. Painhrtz - Doc Daneeka says:

    Otto not that Joyce neds me to defend her but I’m sure if one of her little snowflakes got an A minus they would probably get it a hell of a lot more than the kid’s teacher

  99. maybe buyer says:

    Imagine if the fed did not prop assets they way it did. I believe that current houses prices are nowhere market value if you take into account low rates, stock market highs, income decline and expenses, house prices should be lower by 30%. Even if there is a small price increase due to psychology&inventory that will be temporary and will be soon moving into negative territory unless there is an economic recovery. But I think we are going Japan.

  100. yome says:

    101 Maybe
    Prices went down as much as 60% in other parts of the Country.The Tri State is different.We are flush with money.People with money can hold on for a long time without needing to sell.That is why parts of California and Arizona were down 60% at the peak and everyone was debating about how low we will get in the Tri state and never materialized.This is before the Govt propped the market.
    Now,we are going side ways while everyone is going up to catch up

  101. stu (47)-

    Cech is in form. No brainer.

  102. JJ says:

    The average person on this site makes 400K a year has a full head of hair and a 12 inch dick, we cannot relate to your problems

    maybe buyer says:
    March 12, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Imagine if the fed did not prop assets they way it did. I believe that current houses prices are nowhere market value if you take into account low rates, stock market highs, income decline and expenses, house prices should be lower by 30%. Even if there is a small price increase due to psychology&inventory that will be temporary and will be soon moving into negative territory unless there is an economic recovery. But I think we are going Japan.

  103. maybe buyer says:

    103

    Don’t think so because the lower 95% of the tri state area or so with combined incomes of less than 250K that is 40 or less is steadily decreasing. Not to mention that the same segment is steadily losing its income to taxes and other. This part of population supports most of the buying at NNJ from the hands of the older 95%. NNJ/Westchester has a quick turnover due to taxes, weather etc

  104. maybe buyer says:

    Inventory is low due to people being underwater and/or not enough equity to move or banks not foreclosing. Not because people are flush with money and can hold on! that is the weirdest explanation I ever heard hahahaha

  105. yome says:

    Grim had a site posted from previous thread how much net worth people are in bergen county. If you go back that might be helpful to you

  106. maybe buyer says:

    108

    net worth takes into account assets which is somewhat self referential. Income is what matters and as I mentioned that is lacking for the part of population that would support a house recovery. What could be helpful to you is to look at the stats and find out that median household income even for the uppity areas, which are irrelevant anyways, does not exceed $200K.

  107. yome says:

    True, people that went over their head but can afford to pay their mortgage are staying foot because their monthly payments are now affordable because of harp 2. This people are in no hurry to sell. They can wait until they want to. A person that owed 300k at 6 percent would owe 180k in 5 years going to 15 year at 3 percent. He built an equity of over 100k in 5 years

  108. yome says:

    Again, you can talk about income. The once that can not afford the house are in fk already. This are done. The once that continued to pay got the help they need. Now they can wait.

  109. maybe buyer says:

    111

    perhaps but those fall under the category of “not enough equity” not “flush with money” hahaha. But I do not disagree these people HAVE TO stay put and will not move–one of the reasons inventory is low and will stay that way. But sales will be low so no recovery for you not to mention that you are paying them to stay put hahaha

  110. yome says:

    The once with flush with money either dont have a mortgage or bought their homes 20 years ago. They are sitting with a large equty. They are in no need to sell

  111. yome says:

    We all know low inventory equals to price increase. Baby boomers flush with money bought 20 years ago sitting with equity will now come out selling their homes not been painted since they bought it. Thisbare the once you are looking at now.

  112. maybe buyer says:

    Not really. If there are not many qualified buyers prices will keep falling from the ones selling when moving out of area or downsize. The premise is that there are not many high income people in younger gens and this will show up eventually. Also income matters because even if net worth is high or no mortgage, low retirement/medical benefits savings do not maintain non starter homes.

    “We all know low inventory equals to price increase. “

  113. yome says:

    You are forgetting , a 600k home at 3.5 percent today is equal to a 900k home at 6 percent at the bubble. So a person that dont have the income to support a 900k purchase during the bubble will qualify today for the same house at 28 percent less in price and 3.5 percent in interest.

  114. yome says:

    LOUIS – Suddenly being swallowed up by the earth on a golf course’s fairway drove a wedge between Mark Mihal and a stellar round.The 43-year-old mortgage broker was counting his blessings Tuesday and nursing a dislocated shoulder sustained four days earlier when he tumbled into an 18-foot deep sinkhole on the 14th hole of the Annbriar Golf Club near Waterloo, Ill., just southeast of St. Louis.

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/12/17285573-i-was-just-freefalling-golfer-plunges-into-illinois-sinkhole?liteLOUIS – Suddenly being swallowed up by the earth on a golf course’s fairway drove a wedge between Mark Mihal and a stellar round.The 43-year-old mortgage broker was counting his blessings Tuesday and nursing a dislocated shoulder sustained four days earlier when he tumbled into an 18-foot deep sinkhole on the 14th hole of the Annbriar Golf Club near Waterloo, Ill., just southeast of St. Louis.

  115. yome says:

    A family making 150k today will be able to purchase the 600k home at 3.5 percent. PITI will be about 30 percent of income. That was unimaginable during the bubble
    How many starting families make 150k in bc?

  116. maybe buyer says:

    what’s the matter? I thought you must have had this discussion a million times here???

    servicing a $480K mortgage $35K add $15K taxes add $10-20K maint+util you can easily spend $60-70K in housing. A $150K salary brings home $100K. Good luck surviving not to mention living or saving with the rest…

  117. maybe buyer says:

    your math is wrong. psychology can only turn around things for a while then you need fundamentals

  118. yome says:

    It is always a rule of thumb, PITI is equal or less than 30 percent of income for a house to be affordable. As income rise mortgage become affordable

  119. 30 year realtor says:

    maybe buyer wrote “So there are few sales and prices stable. Those who must feel the pain are realtors”.

    Have you failed to notice that sales in North Jersey are up about 35% to 40% since 2011? It is sellers who are feeling it because until quite recently prices were not rising. My experience tells me prices are only rising in the most desirable price ranges in the most desired communities. Realtors are bellying up to the trough. The sun is shining and I am making hay!

    Reading your comments makes it clear that you do not have a full understanding of the subject. Perhaps you should be more inquisitive and less opinionated.

  120. Juice Box says:

    So Gov Christie wants to get rid of books in school
    And give all students iPads?

  121. Phoenix says:

    123 Juice
    With the Ipad, the kids can go to online schools like this one in Pa. Christie has history with University of Phoenix, Edison schools, and gave large tax break to Pearson education, another institution of online learning. All of this data is easy to search on Google. Follow the dots and you will see where Christie is headed with the future of NJ education. http://www.connectionsacademy.com/pennsylvania-cyber-school/home.aspx
    http://www.northjersey.com/news/129836528_State_awards_Pearson__82_5_million_to_move_from_Upper_Saddle_River.html

  122. Brian says:

    Don’t buy real estate. It’s a bad investment. Buy gold, guns, silver, and put your cash in a money market. Be safe.

  123. chicagofinance says:

    One of the best posts in quite a significant amount of time…..

    JJ says:
    March 12, 2013 at 3:38 pm
    The average person on this site makes 400K a year has a full head of hair and a 12 inch dick, we cannot relate to your problems

    maybe buyer says:
    March 12, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Imagine if the fed did not prop assets they way it did. I believe that current houses prices are nowhere market value if you take into account low rates, stock market highs, income decline and expenses, house prices should be lower by 30%. Even if there is a small price increase due to psychology&inventory that will be temporary and will be soon moving into negative territory unless there is an economic recovery. But I think we are going Japan.

  124. chi (126)-

    We will have the worst features of the Japanese and Argentinian recessions all rolled into one.

    “But I think we are going Japan.”

  125. Extreme violence, coupled to decades of torpor.

    Sounds like hell.

  126. chicagofinance says:

    We are on standard time in a daylight savings world….

  127. Kyle Bass:

    “I’ll give you guys a bit of an idea… we don’t talk about exactly what
    we do – we tell you how much we love coke but we’re not gonna give you
    the formula.

    The AIG of the world is back – I have 27 year old kids selling me one-year jump risk on Japan for less than 1bp – $5bn at a time.

    You know why? Because it’s outside of a 95% VaR, its less than one-year to maturity, so guess what the regulatory capital hit is for the bank… I’ll give you a clue – it rhymes with HERO…

    If the bell tolls at the end of the year, the 27-year-old kid gets a bonus… and if he blows the bank to smithereens, ugh, he got a paycheck all year.

    We are right back there! The brevity of financial memory is about two years.

    ———–

    I wouldn’t sell nuclear holocaust risk in Dallas for 1bp – you should be fired for thinking about selling something for less than 50bps.. and yet – this is happening again…

    ————-

    And it’s happening in huge size – huge – we bought half a trillion dollars worth of these ‘options’… and interestingly enough, one of the biggest banks in the world called me the other day and asked me if I would close my position – that was an interesting day for us – that happened to me in 2007 right before the mortgages cracked.”I would buy Gold in JPY and go to sleep… Sell JPY, Buy Gold, Go to sleep, and wake up ten years later and you’ll be fine. Don’t put all your money in it but that is the single best investment you can make today.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-12/kyle-bass-warns-aig-world-back

  128. LoveNJ says:

    school and teacher topic.
    Wife and I forgot Tuesday was half day at my son’s school.
    A friend walked him home and grandma was at home.
    We just do not have enough holidays and day offs to match school.
    Should have married a school teacher.

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