From HousingWire:
Millennials prefer a ‘fixer-upper’ to a cookie cutter home
The Millennials, recently deemed the next generation of homebuyers, have earned a new nickname for themselves: the Fix-It Generation.
According to a national survey released by Better Homes and Gardens Real Estate, 72% of Millennials (those born between 1982 and 2002) consider themselves just as handy — if not more so — than their parents.
Of those surveyed, 77% would prefer purposeful homes equipped with the technological capabilities many of us have grown accustomed to versus the “cookie cutter” luxury homes our parents’ generation wanted.
As soon as I read this, it made sense. I’ve written before about my personal home search experience. You see, I am a part of the Fix-It Generation, as we’re apparently being called now. My husband and I are targeting homes in an established North Texas suburb.
My preferred suburb is notorious for housing the wealthy and is considered a very safe and settled city. About 15 minutes up the road is a much newer city, where you can get more home for your money. You’re also farther from major highways as well as inconveniently farther from our favorite sushi place.
So my husband and I made a decision to look for an older home in the established – closer to work – suburb, which we considered a much better location, rather than finding a newer home a few miles up the road.
From CNN/Money:
The wealth effect might be shrinking
The Dow keeps hitting all-time highs and home prices are rising.
But many Americans do not feel any richer. That could be bad news for the economy.
“Consumers may be skeptical about their wealth,” said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, in a research note.
In the past, consumers have spent more when stocks and the value of their homes were climbing — even if they don’t plan to cash out on those investments any time soon.
Economists call this the “wealth effect,” but there are concerns that the impact on consumer spending isn’t as pronounced as it used to be.
“Wealth effects appear to have shrunk since the 2007-2008 financial crisis” say Credit Suisse economists Neal Soss and Henry Mo, in a recent paper they call “Honey, I Shrunk the Wealth Effect.”
…
Just a few years ago, economists estimated that for every $1 gain in stock market wealth, consumers spent about three cents more over a two-year period. Rising home prices were thought to pack even more bang for their buck, with each dollar increase leading to about eight cents more in spending.
…
LaVorgna thinks stock prices and home values will keep rising, and that people will spend more and save less.
But Zandi disagrees.
“Given that stock prices have been up, down, and all around over the past decade, households don’t fully believe they are worth as much as their 401(k) statement says,” he said. “At least not yet.”
…
“If you’re lucky enough, you bought your house one or two years ago, and then, you may enjoy that wealth effect,” said Credit Suisse’s Mo. “But for a lot of people who were below water, they merely got back to where they were before the crisis.”
From Bloomberg:
Underwater Americans Skirting Default as HARP Use Rising
Homeowners with underwater mortgages in U.S. states worst-hit by foreclosures are leading refinancings after the government expanded programs to aid borrowers, strengthening the weakest link in the housing recovery.
In Nevada, where property values fell by half in the real estate bust, the government’s Home Affordable Refinance Program, or HARP, accounted for 68 percent of refinancing in December, the Federal Housing Finance Agency will say in a report today. For Florida, 58 percent went through HARP. The states topped the nation in loans more than three months overdue at 2012’s end, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association.
…
“The biggest hurdle the housing market has to overcome to stay on its upward trajectory is keeping the foreclosure inventory down,” Swonk said. “HARP refis are keeping people in their homes, especially in the states where property is severely underwater.”
…
HARP, which has been used by about 2 million borrowers whose loans are backed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac since the program started in 2009, originally banned borrowers whose mortgages were more than 25 percent underwater. The new version enacted last year, known as HARP 2.0, removed the restriction. It also lets borrowers refinance through any lender, instead of being restricted to using their existing servicer.
“HARP 2.0 is working,” said Patrick Ahn, a mortgage bond trader at Los Angeles-based TCW Group Inc. “We’ve seen many more borrowers take advantage versus the first version.”
…
A tight inventory of properties for sale, low interest rates and record affordability are fueling accelerated price gains, Michelle Meyer, a Bank of America U.S. economist, and Chris Flanagan and Justin Borst, mortgage-backed securities strategists, said in a note to investors titled “Someone say house party?”
“We believe a positive feedback loop has begun, where the rise in home prices fuels expectations of further appreciation and easing credit conditions, which in turn stimulates homebuying,” they wrote in the report. “It is a powerful positive relationship especially in this environment of historically low interest rates and a Federal Reserve determined to keep policy accommodative.”
From the FT:
Housing crisis deepens for New Yorkers
Like many parts of New York, the Bronx is in a housing crisis. There is a shortage of low-priced apartments and those that exist are poorly maintained. At the same time rents continue to rise, squeezing lower and middle-income earners who are the backbone of the city’s economy.
Since 2001, average rents have risen 44 per cent while home prices are up 47 per cent, according to the city council. As the country’s housing recovery gains traction and prices continue to climb, city officials fear that many will be forced to move away, hampering New York’s longer-term growth.
…
“For the lion’s share of New York there’s no such thing as affordable housing,” said SaMi Chester, housing organiser for the Northwest Bronx Community and Clergy Coalition. “These few units are not ‘cheap’, particularly if you’re unemployed or underemployed . . . Landlords are increasingly greedy. They are urban predators who want to raise rents and lower services.”
Many New Yorkers spend more than 50 per cent of their earnings on housing. “This has huge repercussions on what you can afford in terms of food costs, healthcare and education bills,” says Barika Williams, policy director at the Association for Neighborhood and Housing Development, a research and advocacy group.
“What you will see is overcrowding or people being forced to move to places like Long Island, Connecticut and New Jersey. The impression is that we’re talking about a small segment of the population. In reality it’s close to half of all New Yorkers that are affected. The city is sending away its growth engine.”
…
“One way troubled landlords can increase income . . . is by evicting existing tenants and bringing in new, wealthier ones, banking on gentrification. We’ve seen this happen in Harlem and Brooklyn, and the Bronx is next.”
Figure this one out… From the Washington Business Journal:
D.C. housing prices now top pre-recession peak
The District’s residential real estate market has not only recovered from the recession but is actually reaching new highs.
The Federal Housing Finance Agency’s Housing Price Index at the close of 2012 showed prices in the District were 2 percent higher than the pre-recession peak of early 2007, D.C.’s Office of the Chief Financial Officer reported Monday.
The FHFA data, released in February, suggests that D.C. has more than recovered from the 16 percent loss incurred during the Great Recession, when prices bottomed out in the District and across the U.S.
Since the first quarter of 2009, the D.C. price index has risen 21.4 percent — 12 percent in 2012 alone, according to the CFO office’s monthly economic trends report.
Nationwide, meanwhile, prices remain 21.1 percent below their 2007 highs.
“The contrast between house prices in DC and those in the US as a whole is striking,” Stephen Swaim of the D.C. Office of Revenue Analysis writes in the report. “As DC prices began to recover during 2009, those in the US continued to fall even more.”
30 year fixed up to 3.81 – a 6 month high.
Good Morning New Jersey
What a relief! One of the big themes of 2013 is the end of the US economic crisis.
That’s not to say that the economy is incredibly strong (GDP growth remains mediocre and unemployment is too high) but several of the key conditions that characterized the financial crisis, and the ensuing years, are starting to fade.
The household deleveraging process, for example, is almost done. That’s coinciding with a beginning of real interest rate normalization. In financial markets, we’re seeing an end to the risk-on-risk-off situation, and more dispersion among stocks.
One of the first firms to jump on board this idea was Goldman, which made its big call that things would start to normalize in 2013, particularly the back half (and now Goldman thinks it’s possible that it’s happening already).
Others have jumped on board too.
In a new note, Morgan Stanley’s Vincent Reinhart talks about the coming inflection point for the US economy, and he also talks about the change coming in the second half of the year.
In the Morgan Stanley forecast for the US, the trajectory of economic activity marks an inflection point midway through 2013. The severe financial crisis of 2008-09 necessitated significant downward adjustments by the private sector to the levels of aggregate demand and efficient supply. As the event recedes further into history, however, the drag on growth from these ongoing level adjustments plays out.
In our forecast, the expansion of real GDP steps up to around 2-3/4 percent in the second half of this year and beyond. Indeed, the resilience of the private sector in our market economy probably would have been more evident by now had not Washington politics intruded. Uncertainty about fiscal policy last year and the reality of budget consolidation this year places the US currently in the middle of three quarters in which real GDP growth averages about 1 percent.
Reinhart (along with famous economist wife Carmen Reinhart) have done a lot of work on post-financial crisis economies, which they say are weak for 3 reasons: Household deleveraging, banks cleaning up their balance sheets, and the introduction of new rules and capital regulations imposed by government.
But the economies don’t stay weak forever.
In this note, Reinhart shows this chart, which shows that eventually, the post-crisis economic malaise does fade. We’re getting to the point where the impact should be zero, and still keep improving.
Morgan Stanley
So overall, Reinhart is consistent with what others are saying.
The deleveraging is coming to an end. The private sector is normalizing. The crisis is over.
[4] grim
DC has historically been considered recession proof. So it makes sense that, after the downdraft from the great recession, housing prices in DC would ramp up in anticipation of demand from when the federal government returns to its normal growth trajectory.
8 – I forgot, politicians don’t lose their jobs or need to take pay cuts like the rest of us.
9. They lose them every once in a while. And when the regime changes then the bureaucrats aligned with either side lose their gig. It happens. But more rush in to fill the void. On your dime!
Two and a half weeks until accelerated foreclosures on abandoned NJ properties goes into effect.
Does it matter? Every single good deal I see on a home is ineligible for a mortgage anyhow.
grim says:
March 13, 2013 at 6:04 am
30 year fixed up to 3.81 – a 6 month high.
[9] grim,
More that government is the only reliable growth industry that we have left. Uncle Sucker is the worlds largest customer, and virtually every living thing that does or could get money from the fisc has an apparatus in DC to make sure the spigot gets opened and never closes.
[13] redux,
And I admit that the Deplumes did, and still do albeit indirectly, live off of Washington.
12 – JJ – Mortgage ineligibility due to HOA/Association covenants or OO ratios is the least of your worries, I’d be more concerned about residents affording special assessments associated with damages, as well as higher HOA fees to account for increased insurance rates.
Last thing you want to do is buy into a development where half the owners can’t afford, and subsequently begin to default on, their association obligations.
There are a few condo developments on LBI that are now in the highest risk zones. These would essentially be impossible to raise to the required heights, as every unit owner would have to agree to pay in to do so, and the likelihood of a majority opting in are low. Most likely, these will fall into the highest flood rate groups out of sheer inability to act, and everyone will be hit by significantly higher HOA fees.
7 essex
Gross who has been negative about the economy for a long time is calling for a real gdp at 3% for 2013
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-08/gross-raises-u-s-economic-growth-forecast-to-3-in-2013.html
If you are bargain hunting at the shore, the safer bet is SFH. Even better, if you can find something like a dormered cape that’s a grandfathered two family (that won’t lose zoning due to renovations), that’s going to be hard to beat.
“Owning” one home in this G-d foresaken state is enough. NJ is a mix of pathos, mediocrity, and entitlement all wrapped up in a minivan.
18 – Better than the mix of obesity, sloth, and crystal meth, all wrapped up in a beat up pickup truck, that defines most everything more than 100 miles inland from the coasts.
If they get enough wealthy to move there (and set up their own enclave in the literal and metaphorical sense), then they could lower overall tax rates. And if that happens, game on!
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/paulson-said-explore-puerto-rico-090000186.html
You might have a situtation in which democrats want to force statehood on PR and PR doesn’t want it.
Grim,
Rent control plus demand equals shortage. There’s also a shortage of affordable housing suitable for unemployed people in Short Hills. There are a lot of people with high incomes who would like to pay for places to live in NYC. Its the politicians who want to make sure poor people keep living and voting in NYC, and so try to write laws protecting them from market pricing, then leading to further market distortion.
#15, Exactly!!!!!! I was on the board of that 1987 condo assoc., the recession that followed created all the concerns that Grim is mentioning. Folks behind on maintenance increased everyone’s maintenance, special assessments, could not sell because of ratios, folks started to rent out units, demographics then changes from owners to renters, terrible spiral, probably won’t ever buy a condo or simialr ever again….
The workweeks are very, very, very long right now, on a historical basis,” said Michael Montgomery, U.S. economist at IHS Global Insight in Lexington, Massachusetts. “That’s why you’re seeing job growth in manufacturing. When you have to start to pay people time and a half, and you have the volume of business, you can justify hiring people.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-13/workweek-tying-longest-since-wwii-spurs-hiring-at-u-s-factories.html
When I lived in Chicago there was no rent control/stabilization. You could find any apartment you wanted for rent, in any neighborhood, in any price range. Constant turnover……
Ragnar says:
March 13, 2013 at 7:57 am
Grim,
Rent control plus demand equals shortage. There’s also a shortage of affordable housing suitable for unemployed people in Short Hills. There are a lot of people with high incomes who would like to pay for places to live in NYC. Its the politicians who want to make sure poor people keep living and voting in NYC, and so try to write laws protecting them from market pricing, then leading to further market distortion.
You have to move from the Bronx to Westchester? …..oh the humanity….
grim 19 I can confirm this especially inland empire SoCal and Reno Nevada. I never will understand the allure of taking a recreational pharmaceutical that turns you into an extra from the walking dead.
Generation Y’s Wall Street (JJ Edition)
Career girl by day, stripper by night!
Dozens of professional women are earning more than $1,000 a week lap dancing for finance guys in secret city venues. Is this liberation — or the seediest new way for men to get their rocks off?
http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/carrer_girl_by_day_stripper_by_night_b2w7KQHGmqqov5e3RyMRfL
I’d like to re-open the discussion around the upcoming demographic shift associated with boomers retiring and millenials having dramatically different preferences around housing.
I think there are two major views, the localist view and the national view. Let me explain what I mean.
Some view this as a trend that will play out in local markets around the US. For example, Sussex County exurbs will get slammed, because the retirees head south, and the millenials buy in Hoboken. Nobody wants the Toll Brothers house 15 miles out past Sparta.
The national view is very different. It means places like the Dakotas, Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Montana, Wyoming, etc all begin to lose millennial population at a rapid rate as they begin to centralize towards urban centers.. NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Philly, Phoenix, Denver, San Antonio, Dallas, etc.
These are two very, very different ways this trend can play out. In the first case, millennial population are still geographically dispersed around the US. In the second case, millennial population is dramatically dislocated. I think most people are thinking about this trend from the local perspective.
The big question isn’t whether or not the millennial demographic will impact housing, the big question is how, who will lose, and who will benefit.
I am in the camp that believes the latter case will be the way the trend plays out. By definition, this is bullish for the major urban centers. However, the central urban areas do not, even remotely, have capacity for this influx. The beneficiaries of the trend will be the larger urban/metropolitan areas, not specifically the inner urban core.
No matter how you slice and dice it, if you shift geographic preference towards urban areas by as little as 10% for the millennial and genx population sets, you quickly realize that there is not sufficient housing capacity to meet this demand. Brooklyn does not have enough room to house all of the hipster douchebags in the US.
That’s my thought.
I dont want to pay zone AE flood insurance. SFH Zone AE homes are paying 3,500 flood right now. At next rate renewal flood homes homes that are not raised are “ICC” homes they are threatening a rate hike to $9,500. Fema will give your 30K to raise home. Larger homes like expanded capes or two families cost 120K to raise. Once home is damaged in excess of 50% of value it gets at 30K grant for increased cost of compliance, meaning 30K towards raising home
Two family homes at beach are problematic. Remember they are usually upper/lower set ups. Most folks rented lower. Numerous Flood insurance claims in Long Beach was denied as only lower flooded, when tenant filed his own FEMA claim for his belongings and showed his utility bills lease etc to collect then owner filed his flood claim, FEMA knew it was a commercial property and refused to pay out flood claim to landlord. Owner lost his rental income and had to pay for own repairs.
Lido Towers in Lido Beach, the pink lady, one of most famous beach condos in world, very high end. A true resort complex built originally in the 1920s for the mega rich. Anyhow they took on a 150K assessment per unit over last few years to do a massive rebuild. They got creamed in Sandy and will be closed for almost a year. They need to do a second assessment to pay for Sandy and folks have to pay for their empty units.
What I have learned is you want a high flood condo with a master flood policy, (not coop), you want a unit without much grounds or landscaping (Common areas that are not covered be FEMA) and a unit with electric heat. Or you want a small bungalow, raised with a crawl space and mechanicals in the attic
The two family, zoning is the least of your problems. It is a commercial property in the eyes of FEMA or Flood Insurance. No grants no nothing.
I could make a living off giving Sandy advice. Well actually I have helped a few people.
grim says:
March 13, 2013 at 7:42 am
If you are bargain hunting at the shore, the safer bet is SFH. Even better, if you can find something like a dormered cape that’s a grandfathered two family (that won’t lose zoning due to renovations), that’s going to be hard to beat.
Grim if you go by that line of thinking then places like Garfield Wallington Harrison Secuacus, Eastern Long Island Yonkers etc. should have good investment value due to short proximity to the desirable areas, public transport, and low average costs initially.
If they truley are the fix it generation than you could see a southern and westward migration of undesirables as they are displaced by the hipster doofuses. Bad for the exurbs as everything will look like the poconos. good for those former bastions of manufacturing.
“fix if generation” BS. They consider it fixing it when they hire someone to do it as opposed to buying a renovated house.
No generation is a monolith. People choose to live where they do for all kinds of reasons. Some will move to cities; many won’t. What many people in the densely populated areas of both coasts fail to realize is that many other people do not want that lifestyle. They prefer fewer people, open space and a more “down to earth” way of life. They don’t care for the urban vibe, trendy restaurants and competitive remodeling of homes. They care about you, not where you got your cabinets. They are also accustomed to being dismissed as unsophisticated hicks in flyover country and are not bothered by it very much. They just continue to live the lives they choose for themselves. It’s been that way for generations.
Grim,
I agree with your assessment. My investment in Montclair continues to look good as long as there is no more room for additional hipsters in Brooklyn. My latest tenants, moving in on May 1st, are a Japanese mother, hipster father and 16 month old son. Yes, they drive a Subaru Outback. As a matter of fact, the last three renters all drove Outbacks.
Lib how am i not surprised othe than a recombinant bike or unicycle it is the hipster preferred mode of transport.
I’m waiting for Subaru’s release of the all wheel drive Granola. Or the two seater Hipster.
32 – So what you are saying is that you believe the research, and predictions based on that research, to be incorrect?
The shift in sentiment of the Gen X group, as well as Millennials/Echo Boomers is widely documented, and is very rarely argued against. There are literally hundreds of academic papers in support of the trend.
Why do I feel like it’s the eye of the hurricane?
37 – See #1 above. Really though, Eye of the Tiger is more appropriate.
19. Scary aint it! Business Insider had a great map of where the labs are. This is not your grandfather’s country.
I drive a beat up pick up truck and a Subaru Forester (too cheap for the Outback). Guess that makes me an obese, slothful, meth addicted hipster wannabe. I’d never live in Montclair though–way too dirty and tasteless, especially the people.
Is this not how it is now? People that can not afford the expense living in NYC are living outside the city. Brooklyn,Hoboken as an example.It was an affordable choice being close to the city until it got to expensive it is not affordable anymore.
People with money and can afford city living will stay there but for most outside the city like Brooklyn or BC will be a choice until it becomes an affordable then the next choice is outside Brooklyn and goes on.The train Towns will always benefit from this.
A good Feasibility study will be to look at Asian big cities like Tokyo.Very expensive to live in the city.Rich people live in their penthouse or 100 sq meter homes.The ones that can not afford live outside the city.As you go further it gets least expensive. Some prefer to rent coffin size beds during work days and go home to their homes outside faraway from the city on the weekend.Some will travel 2 hours one way to get to their jobs.
Will this ever happen in the US? It is the jobs that makes people come to the city.No more jobs outside the city? I dont think so
More people living in big cities can happen in a more pronounce but it will always spread out going outside the perimeter
Where does my Subaru Legacy put me? Half hipster?
42. Cramped.
Regarding Sandy, if you’re young enough, it might be worthwhile investing in the idea that the First Watchung Mountain may be oceanfront in your lifetime. Imagine, jumping off your deck on the side of the Summit hill into the warm waters of beautiful “New Jersey Bay” where the Kings Supermarket used to be.
42 – No kidding, you should see the looks I get when I’m driving around with my great dane in the back seat.
Brooklyn and Hoboken are more expensive than parts of Manhattan.
Cheap and very close to city is untrendy places like Astoria/Jackson Heights/Woodside
Chinatown and Harlen are much cheaper than hip Brooklyn
Retail sales up Inventories up since 2011
One day the cool place to live will be the shipping containers overlooking Ikea.
I used to live in Jersey City, the poor guys Hoboken. I imagine Williamsburg works the same way for the hipsters.
JJ
Those will be the next to fill until it gets too expensive. I will only believe the study when I see coffin size rooms for rent. 2 ft x 2ft x 8ft to put your tired body for the next day
I think the easiest way to argue against the “Millenial Shift” demographic case is to poo-poo the research entirely.
Which isn’t so hard, once you realize that any and all data on “Millennials” is based on surveying a bunch of kids.
Ask a 14 year old where she wants to live, NEW YORK! LA! YEAH! I’m going to be the fashion editor of Vogue when I grow up! No, no, I’m going to be an Astronaut! YEAH! (should I have tweeted this for additional impact?)
Grim there are always outliers but if you look at most hipsters they drive 2 types of cars Prius and an Outback. I would not call a forrester a hipster mobile anymore than WRX would be.
$586 a month to live in this coffin size rooms
http://www.treehugger.com/interior-design/tokyo-renters-paying-568-tiny-coffin-sized-apartments.html
Stu (33):
It is funny to hear that your renters all drive Subaru Outbacks cause I rent in Montclair and drive the douchbag hipster car.
$30 a night for this capsule
http://www.yesicanusechopsticks.com/thesequel/capsule/
You see the US going this way?
Was in Ikea (Paramus) yesterday for the first time in a long time. Had to pick up a couple of things that they make well. I don’t buy particle board products from them. Well I bought a floor lamp to replace one where the glass bowl broke (a buddy of Gator Jr panicked when they saw my dog and smashed it into the wall on his escape) and was amazed at the brilliance of the packaging. There was not a piece of tape or glue on the package, which must have weighed around twenty pounds and housed glass and metal. It was truly packaging genius. Sometimes, it’s the little things that impress me. I also spent some stupid money on some stronger support slats for our queen bed. When the five family members pile in there in the morning, the $10 worth of slats that we currently have are beginning to give way. I should have just cut down some plywood, but I hate the feeling of a bedboard under a mattress that doesn’t have a box spring.
The funny thing about the Outback, for as much as Subaru’s are heralded for their longevity, I rarely see any old Outbacks on the road. In other news, Lightning McQueen keeps on cranking. Just did the yearly tire rotation and decided to flush the brake fluid for the first time in about 5 years. During the $16 oil change (plus I got a new wiper blade since I had a $20 off of $30 coupon), they tested the break fluid and told me it had more copper filings in it than liquid. I still swear by that Montclair Firestone. But then again, they all love my car and are rooting for it to last long enough to become Gator Jrs. beater in another nine years. When they heard we traded in the Xterra, they were pretty disappointed. Besides the catalytic convertor snafu, she was pretty damn reliable too.
According to a national survey released by Better Homes and Gardens Real Estate, 72% of Millennials (those born between 1982 and 2002) consider themselves just as handy — if not more so — than their parents.
Ummm… that group includes my oldest daughter. She is nowhere near as handy as me, but she’s only in 5th grade.
Being a single hipster in NYC is great. Being a loved up hipster with a toddler in an apartment in Brooklyn is still pretty good. A hipster family with a tweens looking for a place to live with good high schools is a different ballpark.
Would such a family prefer NJ suburbs with the high monthly nut, or just move to back to Austin/Portland/Philly/TownWhereTheyCameFrom with a lower paying job but no mortgage and lower taxes. That is a different question. I suspect grown up hipsters dont want to live in quiet suburbs and commute. I’d put money on Newark gentrifying first.
Hmmm…that 100 miles until you get to the wrong side of the tracks makes the whole of NJ all good, no?
18 – Better than the mix of obesity, sloth, and crystal meth, all wrapped up in a beat up pickup truck, that defines most everything more than 100 miles inland from the coasts.
[60] There’s a bar in Johnsonburg, NJ that has nothing but pickup trucks parked outside. I don’t even want to know what’s inside.
Richard,
Hipsters don’t move from Philly, Portland or Austin to Brooklyn. Those places have their own well defined hipster community. It’s the suburban kids who graduate college and then move to Brooklyn. Once they get married and have their 2nd kid (usually their first is right around Pre-K age), they feel the need to move out to Madison, Montclair, Summit, Millburn or Brigadoon.
In Montclair, there is a Yahoo users group named the Montclair Watercooler. When you join, you are asked to introduce yourself and briefly explain where you are from and what your purpose for joining is. I sh1t you not, over half come from Park Slope with a few stragglers from Prospect Park and the upper East and West side of Manhattan. Frequently these families tend to have a child with a learning disability and they’ve chosen Montclair due to their excellent treatment of children with such issues. This may be why the local BOE is considering building a ‘school in a school’ to more cost effectively educate these children as the cost to outsource their education is incredibly steep. In the minutes of BOE meetings, I’ve seen the costs range from 25K to 80K per.
It is mostly farmers ex-pat been in there with a few from our hunting club. They usually breeze in and out.
Hype knowing you really an outback? how do you fit in it? Could be worse though remember that pontiac vibe in memphis? I think there was about an inch between our shoulders.
If you want to be a real hipster with a car the following options used to be the norm until the outback Volvo d50, 77-83 Mercedes diesel wagon set up for vegetable oil, Volkswagen rabbit diesel (rear must be covered in ironic liberal bumper stickers), old subaru legacy wagons pre-pre outback.
Oh, and the Montlcair budget was just introduced. Debt service is now $17 million on a $77 million budget (this has increased as they are actually fixing some of it instead of delaying paying it). Debt service is now $1,600 per household. In other news, police budget is up 6.7% and overall municipal budget is up 2.5%. Schools are currently negotiating their contract with a proposed 3% per year salary increase so I expect Montclair’s overall budget to increase around 3% this year, which is odd as revenues are way up! Well maybe it’s not so odd. After all, during the great recession, a few of these public servants were laid off so the remaining could maintain their 3% per year increases. So certainly now that the revenues are coming back in, they must increase their staffs again to protect themselves from future layoffs. All the meanwhile, 3% salary increases all around. Though I’m not really bothered by it. I just hope these servants save some of it as their pensions will not be able to paid in full starting in 2017. From there it only gets worse.
Those diesel Rabbits were all the rage. My friends dad had one when I was a kid. The biggest problem back then was finding diesel stations.
grim: I would harken back to human nature. Kids rebel against their parents. The kids of these Gen Y drones will grow up hating the city and will want to live elsewhere. On the margin that is…..I’ve seen it myself among my peer group…..
grim says:
March 13, 2013 at 8:51 am
32 – So what you are saying is that you believe the research, and predictions based on that research, to be incorrect?
The shift in sentiment of the Gen X group, as well as Millennials/Echo Boomers is widely documented, and is very rarely argued against. There are literally hundreds of academic papers in support of the trend.
Lib I learned to drive stick in one. Freaking car was so slow it’s zero to 60 time could be measured with a sun dial.
Ex Pat
My cousin lives in Johnsonburg. He has a farm there. He does not post on here, I have no knowledge about the size of his dick (earlier post of 12″ average dick size by JJ), yet he is a multi-millionaire, drives a pickup, and would give you the shirt off your back in a heartbeat.
67. Probably for the best. I’m done 8 points this year on my drivers lisc. All because of the big V8 and 5 speed trans. That and a heavy foot.
done = down
68 correction ( shirt off of his back)
Funny all this talk about people prefering the inner cities. It was cool 40 years ago, too. I remember the lower east side when all the young types dressed to shock. You had to, otherwise, you were just another sardine in a can. Now they are gone, replaced not so much by the shocking dress, but by the attitude.
Cities are always like that. They attract the wanabees and the cantbees. Dates from dawn of civilization.
Those surveyors probably never got around to interview a young mother with 2 kids thinking about how she is going to educate them. Local PS 9876, here we go. Or maybe a chance at the Ivies if I move the hell out of here.
sx (7)-
Keep telling yourself that. The final shitstorm is about to hit. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. No one will be spared.
“The deleveraging is coming to an end. The private sector is normalizing. The crisis is over.”
Ho Huumm a home I was interested in was listed and re-listed then went FSBO is now apparently going short sale via another realtor. I gather the home camper is trying to extended his stay a while longer.
If I make an offer how long do I have to wait for the bank to get back? Did that legislation to shorten the wait time ever pass?
grim (28)-
The first sign of urban areas’ inability to handle the influx of x’ers and milennials will be the collapse of their already-compromised infrastructure and transit systems.
Too bad no one will pay attention to this until a bridge or two collapses.
Of course, there will be no shortage of urban farmers’ markets, offering wagyu beef and heirloom tomatoes that you can buy with food stamps.
If everyone is headed to the city, point me toward Galt Gulch.
Joel Rifkin drove a pickup truck
The Original NJ ExPat says:
March 13, 2013 at 9:56 am
[60] There’s a bar in Johnsonburg, NJ that has nothing but pickup trucks parked outside. I don’t even want to know what’s inside.
What really scares me about the hipster crowd is that they look like they live in mud huts and listen to music that sounds like it was written in 1852.
If things get bad enough and there is no fuel to be found, this could be useful……http://newjersey.craigslist.org/grd/3678508262.html
stu (35)-
I’m awaiting the return of the cart and donkey.
“I’m waiting for Subaru’s release of the all wheel drive Granola. Or the two seater Hipster.”
http://www.businessinsider.com/inflation-adjusted-home-value-2011-4
BTW there is no such car company called Subaru
It is a little nameplate of a large Japanese Heavy Machinery Company.
I am just about to go to contract. I feel the realtor is giving me the run around. She is nice. But she is really the sellers broker, goal is to overcharge me.
Do you think requesting a Man To Man meeting with owner before I cut check is a big deal? Realtors like to lie a lot. Who knows if he will go lower, throw in furniture, be willing to take less for cash or quick closing. Or is that a deal breaker.
I dont trust realtors. My point was proven when one of wrecked my caddie at 2am. Only a realtor would be out at 2am driving like a manic, the rest of us are in bed as we have real jobs to go to in morning.
Boy Grim, I sure do hope the trend is to buy dormered POS capes in Newton.
Sparta is interesting. Big reputation for being the snobby town in the county. It’s full of people who can trace roots back to BC or Hudson county or 5 boroughs but they go out of their way to make it a PITA for people from there to move in. Very hipocritical. They fight tooth and nail against any infrastructure improvements that they fear will bring more people. I heard the freeway portion of route 15 ends in sparta for this reason, years ago the vigorously fought the installation of a NJ Transit station, and most recently the expansion of newton-sparta road. That attitude bugs the crap out of me and I don’t ever think I want to go back there.
When I was in high school in the 90’s, everyone always thought living in or near NYC was the coolest thing and they all wanted to do it. That and move to California. Lots of people I went to school with did that after graduation and some went to High School. I’m not sure what eventually happened to all of them cuz I’m not on facebook at all but I will say that I frequently see some of them living in the area with kids at stores/schools etc. So it seems like they spent their early adult lives near NYC then moved back. They came full circle.
Maybe history is repeating itself?
28.grim says:
March 13, 2013 at 8:10 am
I’d like to re-open the discussion around the upcoming demographic shift associated with boomers retiring and millenials having dramatically different preferences around housing.
I think there are two major views, the localist view and the national view. Let me explain what I mean.
Some view this as a trend that will play out in local markets around the US. For example, Sussex County exurbs will get slammed, because the retirees head south, and the millenials buy in Hoboken. Nobody wants the Toll Brothers house 15 miles out past Sparta.
I can tell you Maryland cop horror stories about actions that even Bloomberg would consider arbitrary and capricious enforcement, but this is right up there:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/woman-gets-ticket-driving-2-miles-per-hour-211957738.html
FWIW, Maryland troopers write all their tickets from the left lane. It’s why no one speeds in that lane. I always stay right in MD if I want to go faster.
If the center or right line is open then she deserves that ticket. The left lane is meant for passing. It drives me crazy when people ignore this. There used to be signs everywhere that would read ‘Keep right except to pass’. I’m guessing the cop was trying to get past her and didn’t want to dangerously pass her on the right.
If I recall correctly, certain states have laws which compel slower moving vehicles traveling in the left lane to yield to faster traffic behind them. This is already practiced in the rest of the civilized world. Here, it is met with hand gesture and willful and wanton disregard.
Brian funny good number of the people I went to high school with moved out to morris and sussex counties. then again a bunch stayed in town also. I think no matter the generation most people like to stay with what they know or do something completely the opposite. I nearly moved to South Jersey after college and was considering the pacific northwest. in the end I stayed in NJ.
“Millennials prefer a ‘fixer-upper’ to a cookie cutter home”
Agree with JJ [31] that this is BS, but for a different reason in our areas (what I once hear Krugman call the “Zoned zones”, meaning densely populated, tightly zoned coastal regions).
What Millenials without a trust fund can afford typical new construction around here? They ‘prefer’ what they can afford, and they can afford run down and ramshackle.
I dated a fourth four generation Italian girl once who lived in a big mansion on the North Shore of LI.
Mom told me Fourth Generation for Italians is this.
1) Walk up Brooklyn
2) First Real home Staten Island
3) Trade up home New Jersey
4) Mansion on the North Shore of Long Island
Well was for her anyhow
#36. There are all kinds of academic papers to support all kinds of things. What I’m saying is I wouldn’t bet money on large numbers of people moving to more urban areas. There are just too many unknowns and many people just don’t like living in or close to cities. One thing that I worry about for NJ is the likelihood of ever increasing taxes. Your water system, roads and bridges are old and need repair, your public pension plans are sadly underfunded and the state has nothing set aside for retiree healthcare as the boomers retire with their hands out and say “pay me.” Someone from another, less expensive part of the country would really have to love NJ and its proximity to the city to take on that kind of risk. A mortgage you can pay off but property taxes are forever.
I do think that people in their twenties will opt for more communal living arrangements out of economic necessity. They will have roommates, two families sharing one McMansion and I think boarding houses will come back as an acceptable and respectable alternative to apt living for single people. I can see a widowed boomer renting out bedrooms in her five br house and preparing the evening meal for herself and her tenants, everyone sitting around the dining room table, just as you saw in old movies.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to take my unicorn for a walk. : )
Pain (63):
I do just fine getting into the old Subaru. Pretty comfortable even when traveling to Rochester.
That Pontiac Vibe was the biggest POS of a car I have ever driven in. I wonder how it passed any safety inspections.
Hype it really was a piece of junk. Drop me a line when you get a chance or let me know what is good for you and I’ll give you a ring.
Same with me and my old Civic. Just wish the seats were a bit softer at this point. And that the seals weren’t all dried out. That car is so loud on the interior that it’s hard to use a cell phone in it.
Poor Old N Thinks Its A Cadillac
Grim the Hoboken trend I have seen for the last few years is once they get married and have a few kids it is off to the burbs, mainly due to the quality of the public schools and costs associated with private school options.
Sure there are other options besides traditional public school but even trendy town like Hoboken is having problems keeping the public and charter schools full, they have to bring in allot of out-of-district students and are considering sending the 7th graders now to the the High School to keep it full. There is also a shortage of 3 Br + units. One 3br I know of recently sold for 1.3 Million a higher price than 3 years ago when it first sold. The bad school system drive parents to the burbs overall. I doubt it will be any different for the Millennials.
After all only the truly wealthy after all can afford $4,500 a month to send their kids to private schools like I do. So we might see a even more hollow middle class inside the urban zones in the coming years.
Do you think requesting a Man To Man meeting with owner before I cut check is a big deal? Realtors like to lie a lot. Who knows if he will go lower, throw in furniture, be willing to take less for cash or quick closing. Or is that a deal breaker.
The likelihood of this happening is low to nil. Most owners don’t want to deal with buyers, period. Secondly, negotiations tend to be more productive when managed through intermediaries. Not for nothing, but big egos are a surefire way to kill a deal really fast. Not saying that it doesn’t work with the right two parties in a room, but there are a million ways this can go south. Housing is WAY too personal, and sellers are always more attached than they would admit.
These days, sellers don’t even go to closing, so if you hadn’t met them at the open house, chances are you never will.
The ego issue is a parabolic increase once you are over then $1m mark. At that point EVERYTHING is a pissing match.
Thankfully, JJ does not have a big ego.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Conagress.
Can I trademark this term?
86-88
Shouldn’t the ticket be for “Failure to Stay Right” and not speeding?
JJ, #46
Astoria is trendy now. You haven’t been here for a while. Come out on the N train, and I’ll take you bar hopping. We would be the oldest people in the bars, by a long shot.
I’m looking to rent another year and found an 1150 sq ft apartment that seemed reasonable until I printed put their advertising apartment layout they publish on their web site. It was easy to determine that sizes of the rooms printed on the layout imply a scale of 1/4″ per foot. It was easy to add up the spaces and they total 910 sq ft at maximum. Is this a common practice?
Thanks,
–Ray
103 – You will find no consistency with regards to square footage calculations in NJ.
“Shouldn’t the ticket be for “Failure to Stay Right” and not speeding?”
When was the last time a ticket was actually written for the actual violation. In most cases (at least the last few I’ve received which were years ago) they gladly change the violation to one with no points (why give the insurance company extra cash) in exchange for a higher fine. Last time I was caught speeding (at 3am no less), I received a ticket for not having my proper credentials. I had been playing poker all night and was not sure if the beer effects were completely worn off, so I didn’t want to search too hard for my registration which was in the same folder as my insurance card. Cost me like $160. Which was a lot more than the speeding ticket, but with no points.
Use Trapster 5.o. Tells you where all of the red light cameras and speed traps are.
86.Comrade Nom Deplume. Apparently. says:
March 13, 2013 at 11:13 am
I can tell you Maryland cop horror stories about actions that even Bloomberg would consider arbitrary and capricious enforcement, but this is right up there:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/woman-gets-ticket-driving-2-miles-per-hour-211957738.html
FWIW, Maryland troopers write all their tickets from the left lane. It’s why no one speeds in that lane. I always stay right in MD if I want to go faster.
Habemus Papam! Catholics rejoice you have a new leader to reaffirm you faith which you choose to ignore. Unfotunately he is a black asian and speaks neither latin, english or spanish. but hey you were going to ignore him anyway so congrats.
Whether you are Catholic or not he is the new Pope.
Painhrtz – Doc Daneeka says:
March 13, 2013 at 1:29 pm
Habemus Papam! Catholics rejoice you have a new leader to reaffirm you faith which you choose to ignore. Unfotunately he is a black asian and speaks neither latin, english or spanish. but hey you were going to ignore him anyway so congrats.
Joyce [101];
Shouldn’t the ticket be for “Failure to Stay Right” and not speeding?
I suspect it was, but the media probably latched like a remora onto the driver’s self-reported fact that she was going below the speed limit at the time she was pulled over (which to me, just vindicates the ticket).
Was reading something about Gell-Mann amnesia just recently.
Shooting spree…upstate NY….
I agree with your 100% from a Buyers perspective. From a Seller prospective, who did not hire not hire a broker it is akward to negotiate through a stranger who may or may not be telling you the truth and who legally represents seller.
This deal I find interesting as price I first offered seller realtor said he would gladly take but I have to pay 15k more to cover his realtor fee. So he engages a broker and charges me.
grim says:
March 13, 2013 at 12:37 pm
Do you think requesting a Man To Man meeting with owner before I cut check is a big deal? Realtors like to lie a lot. Who knows if he will go lower, throw in furniture, be willing to take less for cash or quick closing. Or is that a deal breaker.
The likelihood of this happening is low to nil. Most owners don’t want to deal with buyers, period. Secondly, negotiations tend to be more productive when managed through intermediaries. Not for nothing, but big egos are a surefire way to kill a deal really fast. Not saying that it doesn’t work with the right two parties in a room, but there are a million ways this can go south. Housing is WAY too personal, and sellers are always more attached than they would admit.
These days, sellers don’t even go to closing, so if you hadn’t met them at the open house, chances are you never will.
The ego issue is a parabolic increase once you are over then $1m mark. At that point EVERYTHING is a pissing match.
Grim:
Long time reader of the blog. But here is something for march madness. Btw, I used to live in montclair, nj.
FREE Android app. That tracks basketball scores. See below for steps.
This is March and you know what that means in college sports.
1. Search Google Play for “Bracketology-Scores-2013”.
2. Download and install.
3. Important: Allow for automatic updates to get most recent scores.
Here is the Google play search string through internet.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=bracketology-Scores-2013
Good Luck and may your brackets prosper!!!
re # 107 – ” Unfotunately he is a black asian”
I am sure the Altar Boys are rejoicing he is not 100% Black. Especially if the gene for the johnson is recessive.
Is there even a black Asian cardinal? I don’t recall seeing that option when I placed my bets. Don’t mess with me, I have money riding on this.
Stock market soaring, housing market booming like never before. State of NJ about to get a lowered credit rating again by S&P. From the article–“The ratings agency also warned that it could lower the state’s AA- credit rating — already among the worst in the country — if revenues fail to materialize. The state’s negative outlook was reaffirmed, the report stated.”
Is it smart to plant roots here?
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/03/once_again_wall_street_agency.html#incart_river_default
Lookout North Korea is attacking by sea!
http://i.imgur.com/SACseei.jpg
Does that black Asian cardinal post here? Does he have the JJ required Johnson dimensions?
The realtor is stealing my favorite marking ploy. When I did charity work I used to bring up the kids when shaking down the places I wanted to rent to hold a fundraiser.
Best of all time was Morans in World Financial Center. I got him down to 18 dollars a person for a two hour open bar with food. We were going to charge $50. $32 dollar profit. I then went to him, that is great, we will be able to pay for the gift and holiday party for 52 orphans, because of you 52 orphans wont be wake up hungry with no presents on xmas day. He now has picture in his head, then I throw up it is a shame you did give us party for free, as we have 74 need orphans, I guess $18 dollars is so important to you that you dont mind the fact it is causing 22 orphans to be hungry and presentless on xmas morning.
Guy goes whole thing is free, I am even covering tips get out of here. Great guy.
Realtors suck, they are negotiating up, not down. I was set to bring the kids and use the you can have 5k extra if you dont mind stealing from my unborn grandchildren routine.
Moran’s in World Financial Center, sigh JJ you are dating yourself with that one.
Grim humor really!? He may be black or asian but what are the odds of a black asian cardinal let alone pope. Unless he was Tiger Woods.
Pope has not been identified yet (1500 EDT).
Argentine pope?
[86] Since I was a kid I’ve always respected the folklore of MD cops writing tickets for 1mph hour over the limit and would never speed in any part of MD. The only exception was when I was driving my ’77 Camaro with a worked engine North on 95 circa 1987 or so at 3AM. I was initially doing 55mph when a convoy of about 6 tractor trailers passed me doing 85mph. I made myself the happy caboose on that train figuring they must know something I didn’t.
FWIW, Maryland troopers write all their tickets from the left lane. It’s why no one speeds in that lane. I always stay right in MD if I want to go faster.
#60, 68 That bar in Johnsonburg used to be called the “Chew and Brew.” It closed for a while and reopened a few years ago under a different name I can’t remember right now, but I’ve been by it a few times on bike rides and the pickup trucks parked in front now are less than 5 years old, so it’s gone upscale.
Wow. I wad holding out for Francis and that was the name chosen.
White smoke: new Pope. Black smoke: no new Pope. Smoke & explosions: you wanted the best, you got the best; the hottest band in the world, KISS!
Settle down Francis
It’s “Lighten’ Up Francis”, btw.
Nom – so now that it is Francis I guess you can stop holding out and shoot your…
Wow. I wad holding out for Francis and that was the name chosen.
An Italian pope! Francesco the 1st.
Yes I know I am dissing Argentina.
Libtard #56: Regarding support slats: They sell these at Ikea? I am buying a $2600 sofa for $300 from the seller of one of my sister’s listings. They say it has a cracked support slat; that needs repair; would I be able to get something at Ikea?
Expat cut me some slack I have not seen stripes in about 20 years. Thats a fact jack!
Question of the day, seriously, Can Catholic priests marry?
[128] expat,
Bad as this keyboard was before, the ice cream sandwich OS absolutely sucks. Damn screen has a mind of its own.
73. The way that I see it the shitstorm has taken many casualties already.
[131] Pain – While I’m slicing you some slack, would you care for a side of Taylor Ham?
At this point I marvel at the burn rate in my household alone. The answer, keep bringing in more cash. This year was a $300k year overall. And yet I still feel broke.
Short Sandy destruction video:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151480369532107&set=vb.611557106&type=2&theater
Well, sorry to disappoint any Roman Catholics here, but the answer is YES. Eastern Rite Catholics (Uniates) are still allowed to marry as long as: they marry before they become ordained, and marry outside of this country. At least Rome sticks to one agreement – Union of Brest. But the consequences is an uneasy alliance. Eastern Rite priests that are married are kept far in the distance from metropolitan venues. You will not see a priest taking his wife St Patricks cathedral. BTW, my brother once dated a Catholic priest’s daughter. One date. Cold stuffed turkey.
JJ: Welker signs with the fcukin’ Broncos…..NICE!
re # 132- xolepa – Priests can convert while married from another religion to catholic and remain married there are some here in the USA.
The main reason why they changed from married priests in the 11th century to celibacy as they call it was because back then besides royalty the only ones that had any real land and holdings etc was the church. Imagine if the all of their offspring wanted inheritance, there would be nothing left for the future.
(140) Thanks for the update. Didn’t know that.
Pork roll my friend, pork roll
JJ – Cheap Benz for you Hurricane Sandy damaged.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/03/these_storm_chasers_are_cleari.html#incart_river
Take a drink every-time you hear this one over the next few months.
President Obama: There Is No Debt Crisis
There has been no shortage of dire warnings about the mounting US national debt, but President Obama is now offering a different assessment: no big deal.
“We don’t have an immediate crisis in terms of debt,” President Obama said in an exclusive interview with George Stephanopoulos for “Good Morning America.” “In fact, for the next 10 years, it’s gonna be in a sustainable place.”
http://news.yahoo.com/president-obama-no-debt-crisis-135606679–abc-news-politics.html
Juice [144];
Take your pick:
“Remain Calm. All is well. ALL IS WELL!!!”
or
“There are absolutely NO Americans in Iraq!”
re#145 – Happy Anniversary
On this 10th anniversary of the Iraq War
Whew. Got Pope Francis into my deadpool.
Vigoda will kick his ass.
Habemus boredom.
So let me get this straight, the reason they elect an old dude as pope is that, just in case he sucks, it’s no worry because he’ll be dead soon?
Slapam Papam
grim (150)-
Maybe he was the only guy in the room who isn’t into kids.
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — The possible manipulation of London gold and silver prices may fall under a probe of the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, The Wall Street Journal reported late Wednesday on its website, citing people familiar with the situation. A formal investigation has not been launched but the CFTC is looking into the transparancy of how prices are set twice a day, which are then used to determine spot prices worldwide, the Journal reported.
That car looks like it was in the water long before hurricane sandy hit.
Juice Box says:
March 13, 2013 at 3:35 pm
JJ – Cheap Benz for you Hurricane Sandy damaged.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/03/these_storm_chasers_are_cleari.html#incart_river
Yome – manipulation? NO way gold has outperformed S&P for quite a while, that is all tinfoil stuff, Central Banks buy and sell gold all the time and as of late they have been accumulating that yellow metal for no reason it is a relic and should be relegated to that satus for eternity just like investing in corn, sugar, and land.
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/03/13/u-s-dollars-share-of-central-bank-reserves-falls-to-54-in-2012-world-gold-council/
What’s up, is it rite to just study from textbooks not to go to see internet for latest updates, what you say friends? beats by dr dre on sale http://beatsbydrdreto.webs.com
Brian [154];
That looks like mud, not rust.
re”#157 – It’s barnacles. A little TLC and some 3 in 1 oil and it’s good to go.
Anecdotal – My FIL has been in the international freight business his whole career and nothing surprises him, as in the junk that people will buy for less than shipping costs. Enterprising people haven been buying up high mileage “exotic” beaters for a few dollars to a few hundred dollars and shipping them overseas in containers for years. This could be yours in central Africa for a few hundred, it just needs a little TLC, price tag might be low six figures.
Crazy would we live in for sure..
Going to the barber and the car wash Branchburg Style:
Police locked in standoff with suspect after 4 dead in shootout at car wash, barber shop
Heavily armed police surrounded businesses in upstate Herkimer, NY today, cornering a crazed gunman wanted for senselessly killing four and seriously wounding two in a wild rampage.
Several gunshots were heard, and police used a bullhorn to order the suspect to keep his weapon down and surrender, local TV reports said.
A black armored vehicle and a robot outfitted with a camera were used in the standoff, which was also aided by SWAT teams and a police helicopter.
“This is truly an inexplicable situation,” Gov. Cuomo said at a news conference in Herkimer.
“There is no apparently rational motive, to the best of our knowledge at this time, to provoke these attacks,” Cuomo said.
Myers set fire to his apartment in nearby Mohawk, NY at about 9:30 a.m. and then drove to nearby John’s Barber Shop, where he used a shotgun to cold-bloodedly shoot dead two people and wound two others, authorities said.
Cops identified the suspect as Kurt Myers, 64, who has lived most of his life in the area.
According to relatives of one victim, Myers walked into the shop and asked its owner, identified in public records as John Seymour: “Do you remember me?”
“Yes,” Seymour replied.
Myers shot Seymour in the leg. He survived.
Next Myers shot dead two people who were getting haircuts.
One of the dead was Harry Montgomery, 68, a lifelong Mohawk resident who had three children and five grandchildren, relatives said.
The shots were believed to have come from the area around Glory Days on West Main Street.
Montgomery’s daughter, Linda Springer, said the family had no idea why Myers opened fire. “We have no connection with this guy at all. If he walked up to any of us on the street, we would have no idea who he is,” Springer said.
Myers then drove about a mile across the Mohawk River to Herkimer, where he killed two customers at Gaffey’s Fast Lube and Car Wash.
As police searched frantically and local schools and Herkimer’s community college were locked down, Myers went to ground.
Cops finally located him around 1:30 p.m., when the suspect opened fire on them as they searched downtown Herkimer. It was possible an officer fired back, authorities said.
Myers was believed holed up in an abandoned building. State Police Superintendent Joseph D’Amico said officers could wait him out. “We are concerned about officers’ safety, so we are in no rush to bring this to a conclusion,” he said.
Several rifles and a cache of ammo were found inside Myers’ burned-out home, reports said.
Law enforcement officers walk along Main Street in Herkimer while searching for Kurt Meyers, said Joseph Malone, the police chief for Herkimer and Mohawk. Officials say guns and ammunition were found inside his Mohawk apartment after emergency crews were sent to a fire there Wednesday morning.
Montgomery’s relatives said they were told by police that Myers’ neighbors smelled a chemical odor coming from his apartment early this morning.
When the neighbors asked the suspect what was going on, he slammed his door in their faces.
Myers is a lifelong resident of the area. As a teen, he worked at a textile business near Utica, said a former co-worker.
Herkimer and Mohawk are neighboring villages about 65 miles east of Syracuse, on opposite sides of the Mohawk River in a region known as the Mohawk Valley.
James Baron, the 29-year-old mayor of Mohawk, said he doesn’t know Myers but knew “at least” two of the people shot in the barber shop. The mayor described his village as close-knit and friendly, “the kind of place where you’d say, ‘Oh, it would never happen here.’”
The two economically distressed villages are two miles away from Ilion, where a two-century-old Remington Arms gun plant is a major employer.
“Everybody’s on lockdown, all the schools, the college, the village. It’s very, very scary,” said Amanda Viscomi, Herkimer’s acting clerk-treasurer.
With AP
Chi – from the neighbors “He was a very quiet guy, and didn’t talk much,” Randall said. “This is Mohawk, N.Y. You don’t expect this to happen here.”
Perhaps he is now hiding in Adirondack Park, if the locals are lucky he will eat his own bullets. A 64 year old man should just bite his own bullet if he hates life so much. This guy one been boiling over mentally since the early 70s.
Time to go back to asylums? Oh wait we can’t afford it…
HELP!
Realtor now says only one day a week to see the house for two hours. Wednesday 1-3PM.
Back Story.. A home I was interested in was listed and re-listed then went FSBO is now apparently re-listed going short sale via another realtor.
Wed 1-3 PM?
HELP!
[161] juice,
Not so much that but we decided that locking them up against their will violated their civil rights.
oh yeah…..how about Belicheat violating Welker’s rights to get paid?
Comrade Nom DePlume says:
March 13, 2013 at 10:12 pm
[161] juice, Not so much that but we decided that locking them up against their will violated their civil rights.
Yes Jill, Ikea sells slats, but at least go for the mid grade. The entry level is more suitable for kindle.
Il dispose dun logiciel qui peut tre consult par toutes les personnes en raison de son caractre ouvert , a t prsent Nintendo en 2003 et a comport une mthode pour afficher des graphismes 3D sans avoir besoin de lunettes spciales , Il suffit de changer le nom des jeux ou des vidos afin de le rendre plus court, Le site de DSTWO a publi un nouveau patch pour la rendre compatible avec 3DS/XL v4 . carte r4 http://www.r4-i.info/
You created some decent points there. I looked on the web for the problem and found most people will go along with together with your website.
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