How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Wreck

From the NYT:

Home Buyers Seek Manhattan Wrecks

For people scrambling to make their way in the real estate market, there are many routes, and one of the most adventurous involves buying what brokers often describe as wrecks (fixer-upper is the more diplomatic term). An anemic inventory combined with increasing reluctance to shell out huge sums of money for other people’s taste is sending a growing number of buyers to places they can redo to their own liking, right down to the shape of the kitchen island and the color of the bathroom tile.

These buyers willingly shoulder the often formidable financial and emotional costs of stripping a place to the studs and rebuilding it so as to end up with exactly the sort of home they want and may save money along the way.

Real estate brokers and analysts report a significant uptick in Manhattan in the number of buyers seeking properties in need of major overhaul, alert for such tipoff phrases as “bring your contractor and your imagination.”

According to Jonathan J. Miller, the president of Miller Samuel, the real estate appraisal firm, an analysis of sales of properties rated as “wrecks” or in “fair” or “poor” condition jumped 40 percent between the fourth quarter of 2011 and the same period in 2012. Between those two Decembers, the increase was a hefty 83 percent, indicating soaring desire for such properties at year’s end.

As for the limited inventory driving this trend, “the listing of properties in Manhattan fell 34 percent from the fourth quarter of 2011 to the same period last year, the lowest level we’ve tracked in more than 12 years,” Mr. Miller said. “So we’re seeing more creative and flexible buyers who are faced with a lack of choices as inventory remains tight. As a result, we’ve seen an increase in sales of places in poor condition — a k a wrecks.”

“There are always buyers who want places they can put their mark on and don’t want to pay for someone else’s renovation,” said Doug Perlson, RealDirect’s chief executive officer. “And in the last few months, with inventory so light, especially for middle-of-the-road buyers, we’re seeing more appetite for these properties. Buyers are seeing an upside to purchasing a home where they can both get a better deal and start from scratch.”

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73 Responses to How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Wreck

  1. grim says:

    From the Press of Atlantic City:

    Short sales increasingly popular in South Jersey

    Short sales have become increasingly favored by New Jersey banks and homeowners to clear “underwater” mortgages on real estate.

    Despite taking a loss, lenders are seeing benefits to unloading these properties faster, particularly in one of the most foreclosure-backlogged states in the country.

    Short sales, however, can still be convoluted and time-consuming — sometimes involving multiple mortgages and liens, although local real estate professionals say some lenders are improving the process.

    “It’s very difficult, especially if you’re the buyer, because you’d like to have some time frame on when you’re going to move. You can be told it could be any time from 30 days to 30 months,” said Albert Falciani, broker of record at AJ Falciani Realty in Vineland, who works as a real estate broker for various banks. “Everybody seems to be looking for a way to streamline the process and speed it up.”

    In southern New Jersey, non-foreclosure short sales were a significant piece of the real estate market in 2012. California-based foreclosure tracking company RealtyTrac estimated they accounted for 29 percent of 2012 total sales in Atlantic County, 14 percent in Cumberland County and 10 percent in Cape May County.

    Pre-foreclosure sales — which are essentially short sales but after a bank starts the foreclosure process — also have made up a greater percentage. In Atlantic County last year, nearly 68 percent of foreclosure sales ended with a short sale, 11 percentage points higher than in 2010, according to RealtyTrac. In Cape May County, 71 percent of foreclosures sales were through pre-foreclosure short sales, 3 percentage points higher than in 2010. In Cumberland County, it was 67 percent in 2012, 19 percentage points higher than 2010.

    On average, homes sold in short sales f^tch higher prices than ones sold after banks have foreclosed. In Cumberland County, the average price difference was $22,211; in Cape May County, $101,799; in Atlantic County, $11,480, according to an analysis of RealtyTrac data.

  2. grim says:

    Pack your bags, turn off the lights, NJ doesn’t rank in Pizza anymore. Now that you can probably get a decent slice anywhere, there is little reason to stay. However, the fact that the authors make mere mention of “Pizzeria Uno” in the description of #1 ranking Chicago gives me hope that the analysis is crap, and that there still is hope for NJ.

    The 10 best U.S. cities for pizza

  3. grim says:

    Even tent owners in NJ get a bailout.

    Judge orders help for NJ Tent City resident

    An encampment of homeless people in the woods near the Jersey shore will gradually be phased out as its 80 or so occupants are given at least a year of housing under an agreement reached Friday.

    The deal would eliminate the need for Lakewood’s so-called Tent City and end a seven-year dispute about local governments’ responsibility to care for the poor.

    Residents of the encampment and Lakewood officials reached an agreement in principal under which none would be evicted without first being provided adequate indoor housing for at least one year, according to Jeffrey Wild, an attorney representing the homeless.

    “No one can be forced out of where they are now unless they are offered safe and adequate housing indoors,” he said. “That’s all we ever wanted. We’re not here to defend Tent Cities; no one should have to live in the woods. This is about the right of everyone to have housing.

    (emphasis added)

  4. grim says:

    Careful you don’t get bit by projection bias, from the WSJ:

    When Prices of Homes With Pools Take a Dip

    Another mystery of human behavior: Home buyers will pay a premium for a house with a swimming pool in August—even though soon it may be too chilly to sit poolside.

    “When it is sweltering outside, a swimming pool just looks attractive. There’s an emotional connection because it reminds us of fun times we have in the summer,” says Jaren Pope, assistant professor of economics at Brigham Young University.

    When swimming-pool homes go into contract in the summer, they sell for an average 0.22 percentage points more than the base-line price determined by researchers. For a $1 million house, summer adds roughly a $4,000 premium.

    In just a couple of months, however, “the home buyer is left scratching his head and wondering why he paid extra for a pool,” he says. Conversely, a swimming-pool home that goes into contract in January sells for 0.15 percentage points below the researchers’ base line.

    Prof. Pope and co-authors Meghan Busse, Devin Pope and Jorge Silva-Risso set out to discover what role weather plays in buying decisions. They looked at more than four million housing transactions from 1998 to 2008 in 27 states. They limited the study to homes that sold at least twice over the 10-year period and compared sale prices with base-line prices controlled for housing characteristics. Their findings, “Projection Bias in the Car and Housing Markets,” were published in June by the National Bureau of Economic Research. Their research falls into the broader category of behavioral economics, giving insights into the psychology of spending, such as why some people spend more money at the grocery store when they’re hungry.

  5. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [4];


  6. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  7. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    ‘Irrational exuberance’ mentions have tripled since end of February

    A stock rally can only go for so long before it’s time for a trip down memory lane. In particular, the dark corners and rocky precipices that lurked on the road to past market crashes.

    That tendency may explain why mentions of the phrase “irrational exuberance” have more than tripled since the end of February, surging 75% in the last week, a review of traditional, web and multimedia news outlets shows.

    Mentions of “irrational exuberance” rose to 203 in the week ended Friday, March 15, according to a search in data-archiving service Factiva. That’s up from 116 in the week before, 60 at the end of February and 24 at the end of December. Sources included traditional publications like newspapers, magazines and wire services. The search also included financial blogs such as Zero Hedge and web sites like MarketWatch (which had a few “irrational exuberance” items this week) and multimedia, including video and audio.

    Among most sources most frequently mentioning the phrase, Dow Jones Newswires topped the list, with 67 mentions, followed by the blog Seeking Alpha (47), CNN (34), The Wall Street Journal (24), Bloomberg (24) and CNNMoney (22). MarketWatch mentioned the phrase 12 times, according to this search.

    It’s no surprise that hand wringing over stocks getting too lofty, possibly facing a pullback in the style of the 2000 tech bubble’s burst, is on the rise.

  8. grim (3)-

    What they serve in Chicago isn’t pizza, it’s a cake with tomatoes.

  9. BearsFan says:

    Juice Box – from prior thread – i know you posted some homes in Middletown, is that the scope of your search (if u care to share)? I ask cuz I’ve been looking in neighboring towns, and perhaps we’ve been in the same homes, and can discuss some of them?
    Figured it was worth asking.

  10. The house idiot says:

    FWIW re:inventory Spring season seems to have started strong in my hood (Da Brig) with about 6 nice houses within my dog walk radius. Asking is ~5% over last years, we’ll see where they end.

  11. Juice Box says:

    Bears – put up the zillow links, I would be more than happy to share
    My humble opinion on homes I won’t be buying.

  12. Natasha says:

    The house prices are still out of control-don’t care where the dirt is, a price tag of $650,000 for a piece of sh*# is unacceptable! The Bergen County wannabees got themselves into a hole and want to be bailed out now. The prices should be 20% lowere than last year not 5% higher. Pays have still NOT gone up, but everything else has.

  13. Juice Box says:

    Natasha 20% of loans guaranteed by Fannie Mae in the fourth quarter have down payments of only 3% to 10%, which in turn the Fed buys the MBS on. Uncle Bernanke is guaranteeing the casino stays open bottomless credit for everyone. They want us all to leverage up 5X income and buy buy buy.

  14. grim says:

    don’t care where the dirt is, a price tag of $650,000 for a piece of sh*# is unacceptable

    If you don’t care where the dirt is, why on earth are you looking in Bergen?

    There are lots of good towns you can get a fantastic place for $650k. You could probably build a fantastic place for that price if you were so inclined.

  15. maybe buyer says:

    15 grim

    she can also sell herself if you get my drift

  16. Natasha says:

    I mentioned Bergen but that doesn’t mean I am looking only there-I am looking at prices and taxes in Bergen, Passaic, Essex and Morris. The prices all over are too high-if house price is lower in one county or town then the taxes are inflated so it ends up being the same thing.

  17. Natasha says:

    Hey maybe buyer-I get your drift. Seriously, that is the best you can come up with? If you need to throw out mindless insults rather than intelligent comments… get my drift.

  18. Natasha says:

    Besides, it is not the issue of having or needing the money, it is what you think something is worth. Anything for sale is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If all the mindless fools had enough common sense to think for themselves instead of listening to the realtors bull then they all wouldn’t be in the position they are in now.

  19. grim says:

    it is what you think something is worth. Anything for sale is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

    So if 4 “piece of shit” homes in town sell for $650k, what does that tell you?

    Is it worth what those 4 people were willing to pay? Or do you poopoo the comps and say those 4 buyers were mindless?

    I can’t drop the fact that you think the dirt isn’t the most relevant part of the transaction.

    You buy dirt, the cost of the house pales in comparison to the cost of the dirt. If a buildable lot costs $500k, do you really think you are going to get a gem of a house for $550k? What you are going to get is a house worth $50k.

    House prices are not going to go to zero as long as the land is worth something. They’ll approach the price of the land, and stop there.

  20. grim says:

    Case in point, compare Plainfield and Millburn (or even Glen Ridge)

    You can find very similar homes at a price differential approaching 4x, 5x, or even more.

    What’s the difference, the houses are almost identical.

    Dirt dirt dirt dirt dirt. Would you buy the house in Plainfield?

    Not saying there aren’t $650k crapshacks, but it makes all the difference if you are talking about Saddle River or Wayne.

  21. Natasha says:

    OK Grim, I get the argument about the value of dirt being worth more in one town than another. And all – desirable or not – towns’ dirt value rose.
    What I should be arguing is how all the dirt prices went up in the first place. It wasn’t through the natural ebb and flow of economics. It was the governments involvement in making houses more accessible, lenders giving anyone who could breathe a mortgage, and the belief that you could own any house you wanted. That all inflated the prices. Now so many of those people who bought houses they couldn’t afford are in preforclosure.
    Their whole lives are upside down because of the mad rush to buy what they could never afford.
    It should never have happened and prices should still be lower than they are everywhere.
    Yes, the dirt matters, but all the dirt is still too expensive.

  22. The house idiot says:

    Grim: time to change the nick to “cheer”?? that would be the strongest “buy” signal…

  23. maybe buyer says:

    dear natasha
    you did not get my drift. It’s not me who says that. It’s ben and the banckers: what did you think? bailing out them is not free, somebody gotta pay and it’s not them. Also, it’s the realtors–but this is no surprise they are perpetually selling out so they don’t understand why you can’t or won’t.

  24. grim says:

    So what’s the right price?

  25. grim says:

    And my radar is so well tuned, I’m showing a 90% probability that Natasha is Fast Eddie

  26. Natasha says:

    About 15% less than they are right now.

  27. Comrade Nom Deplume. Apparently. says:

    Report from acrosss the Delaware in Chester County. Things are not moving as fast here as the realtors are saying. I’ve looked at a few houses that went UC then went back on the market at a lower price point. I’ve also seen some that are pretty nice and don’t have a lot of cosmetic issues, but may have one or two big issues (usually disclosed and to be addressed) and this is scaring off buyers.

    If you are going to price for perfection, it had better be perfect. Sellers are finding that out the hard way.

    Also not helping are all the headwinds I discussed before. And I am finding that few want to buy into a county where the county tax nut goes to Coatesville, the sheriffs sale capital of SE PA without some downside protection. Kinda like buying into Essex County and sharing a tax base with Newark.

  28. Long time lurker & life long pessimist says:

    Bah hum bug to all.

    Natasha don’t despair. You can still get something, but wait a bit.

    I’m in beautiful Fort Lee. Capital of the wrong way drivers and most pedestrian killed crossing the street. You know why?? No it’s not the asians. It the old geezers.

    I’m a long time renter. All my neighbors are +/- 70 yrs old. Those with successful kids -those kids don’t visit. Those with kids that are not JJ – well they visit to do the laundry at their parents’ home. Our Main Street is dead. The old people don’t go shopping there anymore.

    Successful enterprises are a fancy nearby supermarket because they deliver groceries, the cab companies, and the day laborers that show up after a snow storm.

    Most houses were built by the early 50’s. So yes, many are feeling the age if not crap shacks. But this geezers will die off within 5 yrs and definitly in 10 yrs, and their kids are desperate to sell.

    Not for nothing. But I have notice a trend – the more cheery and house bubblelicious Grim’s post get, the less all posters comment – outside of JJ of course. Could it be a case of “Believe me and not your lying eyes” with its cognitive dissonance confusing people an giving them a headache?.

  29. grim says:

    But I have notice a trend – the more cheery and house bubblelicious Grim’s post get, the less all posters comment

    That’s ok – If you’d like, go back 6 or 7 years or so and find the post where I laid out my position pretty clearly. I said that I was not a permabear and that I was not anti-real estate. Nobody liked what I had to say when I started the blog, and back 6 years ago, I said pretty clearly that I thought there would come a point at which I would change my position, and at that point, I’d go back to being the “idiot” I was when I started the blog.

    The fact is, the backlash was entirely anticipated, welcomed even.

  30. Juice Box says:

    Just toured haughty BC. Northvale, Norwood, Demarest and Haworth. The amount of rundown crapshacks on the main roads reminds me of some of
    The redneck parts in Vermont. PEOPLE get the damm boxes and piles of crap
    Off your porch it is not a storage locker.

  31. Tiny Violin says:

    Dude looks like a Lady….
    Natasha = Gary

  32. Fast Eddie says:

    Sorry, I’m not Natasha.

  33. Natasha says:

    Long Time Lurker I am good-I have a house and can sit tight. If I never buy another house it won’t kill me. More worried about the future for our kids and what they have in store for them all the way around-economy, politics, and the simple break down of a society that seems to have forgotten what is really important.

  34. The house idiot says:

    -30 : I did not mean any “backslash” in my joke, and sometime ago I did go back a few yrs in the blog and was quite impressed with your foresight. Sincerely. Change your nick to “sage”?

  35. profuscious says:

    (30) Sr. Grim I read your blog back in 2007 right after you first started it in ’06 I believe. A lot of what was posted by you, BC Bob, Clot, and others influenced my personal decisions in the market. I just started reading this site once again, and I’m happily not too surprised to see how the general tone of commentary has evolved. You are a good man for practicing your realpolitik.

    If your audience only wanted to read your dystopian vision for NJ, then they might be better served reading some Hamlet followed by a bit of Solzhenitsyn.

  36. Comrade Nom DePlume says:

    Looks like the bubble burst for us. Hopefully a trip to the Garden in the Not Invited Tournament will be in order.

  37. chi in westchester says:

    I disagree with you. The price of energy in North America is going to have a profound impact on the manufacturing sector for the next 20 years.

    Juice Box says:
    March 15, 2013 at 8:18 am
    re #11 – just a blip on the radar. Manufacturing jobs won’t come back for various reasons.
    MIT Report below.

  38. Juice Box says:

    Yowza How is this for negative interest. -10% on your savings to pay for the bailout of Cyprus.

  39. Juice Box says:

    Expand Chi on you belief that energy prices will go down? I hope you have read Art Berman’s work, most of these new fracked wells will be abandonded only 4-5 years after drilling.

  40. cobbler says:

    As someone trying one’s best to keep the U.S. manufacturing afloat (actually, one of the most energy-intensive sectors of it) I tend to agree with the authors of MIT study rather than with you. What we progressively lost beginning in 1980s was the so-called manufacturing commons, where supporting businesses had been clustered geographically close to the production facilities – so if you needed to have something done it was speedy and smooth; also, we had decent on-the-job training programs, and many of the kids starting in blue-collar jobs were pretty smart. Last year, it took us 3 weeks to obtain a replacement for a failed specialty valve (unfortunately it broke during the Chinese New Year, and nobody in the whole USA makes these toys today). I don’t think we’d interviewed an American-born person under 40 for an operator job in the last 7-8 years (it pays fairly well, but you need to both understand and use DCS, and move 55-gal drums – and sometimes get dirty). In principle, all we’d lost can restored – but not without serious and extended-term walkaway from the free trade ideology and changes in the education system.

  41. Juice Box says:

    Cobbler – we are just a whisper compared to the Bullhorn that Wall St commands via the MSM.

  42. Essex says:

    28. Tax base ‘and’ a creeping demographic…..good times…!

  43. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    Survey shows homeownership is still the American Dream

    It seems that Americans are continuing to dream of homeownership, at least according to JPMorgan Chase’s recent survey.

    A total of 87% of those surveyed said owning a home is something they dream about.

    “Owning a home is at the heart of most Americans’ dreams,” said Kevin Watters, CEO of mortgage banking at JPMorgan Chase ($50.02 -0.98%). “And people are saving as much as possible to achieve homeownership.”

    Of those surveyed, 66% believe housing is a good financial investment and 75% see it as a crucial part of raising a family.

    Compared to six months ago, nearly two times as many potential first-time homebuyers are optimistic about being able to put money down on a home over the next six months.

    Overall, 56% of consumers believe their finances will improve over the next six months, while only 8% believe they will worsen.

  44. grim says:

    From the APP:

    Jersey Shore real estate market shows signs of a housing comeback

    Colleen Ferguson made an offer last Wednesday on a ranch-style home in Jackson that was listed for $100,000 and, with water in the basement and the upstairs gutted, sounded like a mess.

    Yet Ferguson, sitting in the office of her real estate agent, was worried that someone would swoop in at the last minute and outbid her.

    “I feel like I can’t go wrong with it,” Ferguson said. “But I probably shouldn’t speak so soon.”

    As the spring selling season gets underway, central New Jersey’s housing market, on life support not long ago, is running into a new problem few could predict: It doesn’t have enough inventory.

    Its predicament can be traced to simple economics: Buyers have reduced their debt, qualified for rock-bottom mortgage rates and feel better about their job prospects. And they appear to be a step ahead of sellers, many of whom not only are still recovering from the collapse of the housing bubble, but also now are contending with the damage to their homes left by Sandy.

    All told, experts say, it should help boost prices. Slowly. But there is a long way to go until homeowners recover the equity they lost after the housing bubble collapsed.

    Consider: Median home prices in New Jersey fell more than 20 percent from their peak in the second quarter of 2006 to the second quarter of 2012, said Patrick J. O’Keefe, director of economic research for the New York-based accouting firm CohnReznick.

    It is unmatched in recent history. Even during the recession of the 1990s that hit New Jersey hard, the state’s home prices managed to remain flat, O’Keefe said.

    The recent combination of lots of home buyers and fewer homes for sale helped prices rise 2.9 percent in the fourth quarter, according to figures from the Otteau Valuation Group, a research firm based in East Brunswick.

    At that rate, it will take 13 years for the housing market to fully recover from its collapse.

    “It starts to close that gap (in lost equity) and starts the healing process,” Jeffrey Otteau, the company’s president, said. “Our projection is equity will be restored in 2019.”

  45. grim says:

    From USA Today:

    Homes selling faster as buyers outpace supply

    Homes sold faster last month than in any February since 2007 as eager buyers met a tight supply of homes for sale, industry figures show.

    Homes were on the market for a median of 98 days last month, down from 123 days in February 2011, according to That means half the homes listed for sale in February were on the market for less than 98 days and half for more than that.

    Even 98 days is long for many markets.

  46. grim says:

    No way for me to get numbers that don’t reflect relisting, but heres a sampling:

    Feb 12 – 122 days
    Feb 13 – 108 days

    Feb 12 – 109 days
    Feb 13 – 117 days


    Feb 11 – 122 days
    Feb 12 – 114 days
    Feb 13 – 98 days

    Feb 11 – 123 days
    Feb 12 – 117 days
    Feb 13 – 116 days

    Feb 12 – 108 days
    Feb 13 – 101 days

    Feb 12 – 177 days
    Feb 13 – 140 days

  47. Hhk says:

    Can you tell me what 183 Lakewood ave in ho ho Kus went for? They gutted and renovated that house over the fall and winter. Their ask was in the mid 700s which seemed really high. Just curious as to what it we t for as I saw moving vans there yesterday.

  48. grim says:

    179 not 183 – still showing under contract

  49. Ottoman says:

    Bergen County dirt is worth more because its residents sh!t diamonds.

  50. grim says:

    Residents? No. It’s the unicorns, and they don’t shit diamonds, it’s skittles. The skittles eventually grow into rainbows and butterflies. Which is most curious, because it doesn’t rain there, and there are no bugs.

  51. Fast Eddie says:

    There are no germs in Bergen County either. And no one has acne… that’s what I heard.

    Grim, I thought this house was under contract. Why is it listed again:

  52. Fast Eddie says:

    So, we have multiple bids again and house prices rising yet I drove through Little Falls, Cedar Grove and into Verona last Sunday and didn’t see one open house sign. I drove the length of Ridge Road and nary a sign to be found. So, why aren’t they all cashing in? Where’s the sellers on the fence? They were waiting for rosy news, so what’s the holdup? Where’s the inventory?

    And once again, we talk about “competitive” prices yet no one sites that taxes doubled and stayed there. Anyone do any food shopping lately? Try taking a Saturday afternoon trip out for a few hours and try to keep the spending to less than 3 digits. You all get my point.

    Who’s buying? Why, the rookies of course. They have no idea what the invisible costs look like until they’re staring at the clock at 4 in the morning wondering how the f.uck they got into this situation.

    Like the amateur investor focusing on return instead of risk. The house (literally and figuratively) wins every time, my friends. Don’t keep the Bookie waiting or else! Some of us are solvent because of our terms, not theirs. :)

  53. Fabius Maximus says:

    #31 Juice

    When you get off the main roads in Haworth especially west of Scharlenburgh, there are some beautiful houses. It could be my next move.

  54. Fabius Maximus says:

    For those that are following the big BC house on the corner of Oradell as Pascak Roads. They finished the stone cladding and I can only hope it mellows with age. I think they were going for west coast, sun kissed, beach skin. Then endede up with an east coast bad spray tan with a tinge too much orange.

  55. WickedOrange says:

    re 56 passed it today on my way to campgaw.

    wtf… if you’re going to drop that kind of coin on a property… why do it on the corner of Oradell as Pascak Roads. I would much rather have 1/3 the house and a much, much better location.

  56. Fast Eddie says:

    wtf… if you’re going to drop that kind of coin on a property…

    It’s the same pool of geniuses who are convinced that it’s a great time to buy again.

  57. WickedOrange says:

    I noticed the house next to that monstrosity is now for sale… lol

  58. Natasha says:

    66% believe housing is a good financial investment
    Overall, 56% of consumers believe their finances will improve over the next six months, while only 8% believe they will worsen

    I would love to know who are these people taking these surveys? They are a bunch of media hyped bullsh*t. It is a ploy to get people to follow the masses into fantasy land. It is NOT the real picture. I don’t know anyone who feels that way, and I know a lot of people.

  59. grim says:

    It’s the same pool of geniuses who are convinced that it’s a great time to buy again.

    Recent immigrant with cash. No builder would sink that kind of money into something so ugly, on spec.

    Why such a public location? Well … That’s the point. Why spend a fortune on a mansion and put it somewhere that people won’t see it.

  60. Jill says:

    Re#56: that house has been a WTF??? Ever since they started building it. Who besides maybe a drug dealer circa 1983 thinks that is attractive?

    On an unrelated note, where is 3b?

  61. POS cape says:


    Natasha if you are not Gary then you are his soul mate.

  62. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice [39];

    They did better than Argentina didn’t they? It’s all Brussels’ money anyway, except what Brussels lets the plebes keep. Just like the Obamunists want to bring to America.

  63. Natasha says:

    Re #63
    Well great minds think alike I suppose.

  64. Natasha says:

    I can honestly say that I have never posted on this site before yestarday.

  65. Juice Box says:

    Moose about 1/2 of deposits in Cyprus belong to
    Non-resident Russians.I wonder if Russia will turn
    Off the natural gas again?

  66. Tiny Violin says:

    Re 66 well, yestarday = yesterday could also could mean she’s JJ’s soulmate as well.

  67. Libtard at home says:

    JJ’s soulmate is his left hand.

  68. Essex says:

    You never give me your money
    you only give me you funny paper
    And in the middle of negotiation you break down

    I never give you my number
    I only give you my situation
    And in the middle of investigation I break down

    Out of college money spent
    See no future, pay no rent
    All the money’s gone, nowhere to go
    Any jobber got the sack
    Monday morning turning back
    Yellow lorry slow, nowhere to go

    But oh, that magic feeling
    Nowhere to go
    Oh, that magic feeling
    nowhere to go
    nowhere to go
    Ah, Ooo, Ah, Ooo, Ah

    One sweet dream
    Pick up the bags and get in the limousine
    Soon we’ll be away from here
    Step on the gas and wipe that tear away
    One sweet dream
    Came true today
    Came true today
    Came true today

    One two three four five six seven
    All good children go to heaven

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