Why a private mortgage market might not be a good idea

From the NYT:

In one bundle of mortgages, the subprime crisis reverberates

A subprime deal came back to haunt Fabrice Tourre, a former Goldman Sachs trader, when a federal jury in Manhattan found him liable for civil securities fraud.

He is not the only one feeling the pain of a subprime transaction six years on.

Hundreds of thousands of subprime borrowers are still struggling. Some of their mortgages ended up in another Goldman deal that was done at the same time as Mr. Tourre was working on his own financial alchemy.

In February 2007, just before everything fell apart, Goldman Sachs bundled thousands of subprime mortgages from across the country and sold them to investors. This bond became toxic as soon as it was completed. The mortgages slid into default at a speed that was staggering even for that era.

This is the story of one of those bonds, GSAMP Trust 2007 NC1.

The name is the sort of gobbledygook that is common in the bond market, but it tells a story. The “GS” is derived from Goldman Sachs. The Wall Street firm didn’t actually make mortgages to subprime borrowers that were in the deal. Instead, Goldman bought them from a lender called New Century, the “NC” in the title.

It was New Century that lent to Wendy Fillmore, when she and her husband wanted to buy their house in Las Vegas in 2006. The home cost $276,000. New Century provided two loans, one for a $221,000 loan and a second mortgage for $53,000. Data for the Goldman deal shows that it contains the Fillmores’ larger loan.

“I was wondering how we managed to get approved for as much as we did,” she said.

A month before Ms. Fillmore got her mortgage, Daniel L. Sparks, Goldman’s head of mortgages, wrote in an e-mail that he was a “bit scared” of New Century and had reservations about Goldman taking more loans from the lender. The e-mail was contained in materials released by Congress as part of an investigation of Wall Street.

Ms. Fillmore is still in her Las Vegas home. She estimates that the market value of the house is around half the combined value of her two mortgages.

Three-fourths of the borrowers in the deal have fallen well behind on their payments at some point, according to a special analysis of the deal performed by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston. Many of those people have lost their houses or will lose them. Nearly half the loans in the bond have been in foreclosure proceedings since it was issued, according to the Boston Fed.

One of Mr. Sparks’s former Goldman colleagues is Jonathan S. Sobel, who also left Goldman in 2008 and is also a defendant in the federal action. A year ago, Mr. Sobel and his wife acquired a duplex apartment at 740 Park Avenue, one of the city’s most coveted addresses, according to New York property records. They paid $19.3 million.

The question today is whether loans like the one made to Mr. Haynes should ever have been put in the Goldman bond. Critics say the banks did not properly portray the full risks of the loans bundled into bonds.

One-fourth of the loans in the Goldman bond have been modified, according to the Boston Fed’s analysis. Not all of those succeeded, though. Of the 9,393 loans originally in the deal, 14 percent have been modified and are still current on their payments.

Today, the borrowers whose loans were put in the Goldman bond say they have been chastened by their experiences with debt.

“If I could take everything back, I never would have got involved,” Mr. Haynes, the Brooklyn resident, said.

This entry was posted in Foreclosures, Housing Bubble, Mortgages, Risky Lending. Bookmark the permalink.

244 Responses to Why a private mortgage market might not be a good idea

  1. grim says:

    (reposting)

    113 – Don’t come here and call me racist unless you are going to back it up with real facts. Calling me racist because I’m saying Glen Ridge is a better choice than Maplewood for the what is essentially same outlay in taxes? Race is irrelevant to me. Give me a break.

    2010 SAT
    Glen Ridge – 1726
    Columbia – 1592

    2013 High School Rankings
    Glen Ridge – 12
    Columbia – 47

    I posted Rutherford as counterpoint to the comment about NY taxes of $20k being typical for older style “character” homes with a shorter commute to NYC. Rutherford is the last stop on the Bergen Line before Secaucus Junction – ideally positioning it from a commute perspective. The fact is it’s cheaper, the taxes are lower, and the commute is shorter. Are there trade-offs? Sure. I’m merely pointing out viable alternatives. The fact of the matter is that school performance is a HUGE driver of home prices in NJ, better performance, higher price, period.

    Where do you live in Maplewood?

    The population north of Wyoming is 98.9% white (per city-data stats). It’s about as un-diverse as North Mountain, or the side streets off of Ridgewood Ave. North of Maplewood Ave it’s probably an easy 85-90% white. Head to the Irvington border and the demographics change tremendously, in some places an almost complete reversal to 80% black. Jesus Christ man, the town of Alpine is more racially diverse than the area north of Wyoming.

    This is diversity to you? By the way, the wealth and income is strongly correlated to this area. To me, this looks like an enclave of very rich white money … and then you’ve got everybody else to the south of that.

    And your comment about Rutherford not being diverse? And it being predominantly (poor performing) white? Huh?

    Rutherford NJ (from Citydata)
    White – 68.1%
    Hispanic – 14.1%
    Asian – 13%
    Black – 2.5%
    Two or more – 2.5%
    Other races – 0.3%

    Maplewood
    White – 58.7%
    Black – 29.7%
    Hispanic – 7.1%
    Asian – 3.1%
    Two or more – 0.9%
    Other – 0.2%

    Looks like Rutherford is equally as diverse as Maplewood, it has larger percentages of asian and hispanic populations, but a lower percentage of black population. Do I not understand diversity here? Isn’t a large population of all races better than the racial makeup being predominantly one or two races? So, for example, Glen Ridge High is more diverse than Irvington High, for example.

  2. anon (the good one) says:

    Michael, the answer is very simple. Teacher unions vote democrat and cops unions vote republican. hence, people on this blog will bash teachers to no end while ignoring cops salaries/pensions.

  3. Juice Box says:

    Grim unless you sold a listing to Al Sharpton in Upper Saddle River you are a a a a wacist. You won’t win with logic.

  4. Ottoman says:

    Bernardsville is so diverse it has a Latin American grocery right on the square. And Chatham’s got a gay black mayor.

  5. Ottoman says:

    Speaking of school quality and high taxes…

    Investing in Public Programs Matters: How State Policies Impact Children’s Lives, focuses on the results of the 2012 STATE Child Well-Being Index (CWI) — a comprehensive state-level index of child well-being modeled after the Foundation for Child Development’s (FCD) NATIONAL CWI.

    The STATE CWI draws from the most comprehensive set of data used to form a state index of child well-being. With these data, the STATE CWI ranks children’s well-being in seven different domains for each state and compares them across states. In addition to state rankings, this report includes new findings about the strength of relationships between state policies and selected economic and demographic factors indicative of child well-being.

    The key findings from this study are:

    Higher State Taxes Are Better for Children. States that have higher tax rates generate higher revenues and have higher CWI values than states with lower tax rates.

    Public Investments in Children Matter. The amount of public investments in programs is strongly related to CWI values among states. Specifically, higher per-pupil spending on education, higher Medicaid child-eligibility thresholds, and higher levels of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) benefits show a substantial correlation with child well-being across states.

    A Child’s Well-Being Is Strongly Related to the State Where He or She Lives. Child well-being varies tremendously from state to state, ranging from a 0.85 index value for New Jersey, the highest ranked state, to a negative 0.96 index value for New Mexico, the lowest-ranked state.

    The six states that had the highest CWI values were New Jersey, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Utah, Connecticut, and Minnesota. On the other end of the spectrum, Arizona, Nevada, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, and New Mexico were found to have the lowest index values.

    http://fcd-us.org/state-cwi-findings#node-1157

  6. grim says:

    Frankly, I think the general viewpoint on “diversity” as defined by race is essentially worthless in our increasingly globalized world.

    I think Cultural and Ethnic diversity is key here, and woefully ignored. The more time you spend with folks outside of the US, the more quickly you will realize that categorizations like “asian” and “hispanic” are pretty much worthless. There is an amazing amount of rich cultural diversity across these groups (as well as the “white” group as well).

    What does a first generation immigrant from Turkey have in common with a first generation immigrant from France, and a 7th generation American from somewhere out in the midwest? Likewise, what does a kid from Mumbai have in common with the kid from Manila?

    A mixed race community made up of families that have long forgotten their cultural heritage isn’t interesting to me at all, boring as skim milk and white bread.

    That said, nothing boils my blood more than insular communities, if you are going to call me bigoted, that’s probably where you should point.

  7. anon (the good one) says:

    6. speaking of diversity, it would be good to hear views from non-whites / non-republicans as well, no?

    @NewsBreaker: DETAILS: Judge says New York City adopted policy of “indirect racial profiling,” ruling “stop-and-frisk” unconstitutional – @ReutersInsider

  8. Ben says:

    A healthy mortgage market is simply based on the down payments. Lower downpayments artificially exist through government programs. 20% isn’t some random number the market came up with. It was a number that served as insurance in the case of default. How is a healthy market supposed to exist when people can buy with essentially no skin in the game and nothing to lose? In some countries, its normal to put down way more than 20%.

    Side story on this. A co-worker of mine just sold his home for a lot of money and is looking at buying a big home elsewhere. He told me, he’s doing a 10/1 ARM. He told me “It doesn’t matter what the interest rate will be once it resets, I’ll be 70. Who cares?”. So, someone that can easily obtain a 30 year fixed opts for a 10/1 ARM to get into a bigger home.

  9. Anon E. Moose says:

    Anon [7];

    it would be good to hear views from non-whites / non-republicans as well, no?

    Go read some of Scalia’s 4th Amendment opinions. Kelly has a point about demographic policing — he’s just overreaching with S&F. Bloomberg never met an instance of government trampling freedom that he didn’t like. Race is just a side show to keep Sharpton in jogging suits.

  10. Fast Eddie says:

    hence, people on this blog will bash teachers to no end while ignoring cops salaries/pensions.

    Are you kidding me? Ignoring cops salaries and pensions?

  11. Comrade Nom Deplume, Bostonian says:

    [10] eddie

    anon sees what he wants to see, and doesn’t see what he doesn’t want to see.

  12. joyce says:

    A newly unsealed lawsuit, which banks settled in 2012 for $95 million, actually offers a different reason, providing a key answer to one of the persistent riddles of the financial crisis and its aftermath. The lawsuit states that banks resorted to fake documents because they could not legally establish true ownership of the loans when trying to foreclose.

    This reality, which banks did not contest but instead settled out of court, means that tens of millions of mortgages in America still lack a legitimate chain of ownership, with implications far into the future. And if Congress, supported by the Obama administration, goes back to the same housing finance system, with the same corrupt private entities who broke the nation’s private property system back in business packaging mortgages, then shame on all of us.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/08/12/your_mortgage_documents_are_fake/

  13. Jason says:

    Anon, the issue isn’t about bashing teachers because they tend to vote Democrat. It is a matter of taxpayers growing ever more dissatisfied and frustrated with being forced to pay such high and for many unaffordable property taxes, the majority of which goes to fund an educational juggernaut.

    Now combine this ever growing expense with the results: Test scores that remain flat or declining.

    To top it off, the curriculum has been dumbed-down. Take a look at an average essay written by a high school student from a generation or two ago, and compare it with one today. In comparison, the one written today looks rather pathetic.

    So taxpayers are paying so much and getting so little for it. Is it any wonder they’re upset?

  14. ccb223 says:

    Montville and Berkeley Heights make the top 15 places to live…

    http://homes.yahoo.com/photos/money-magazine-s-best-places-to-live-2013-slideshow/

  15. Comrade Nom Deplume, Bostonian says:

    [7] anon,

    I hear those views, often on FB where a guy I am friended with can best be described as a Black Panther sympathizer. He has thousands of friends and while some, like me, are on the right, many are on the far left or come from the minority perspective.

    While I can understand why they have this perspective, sometimes their view of the world is even more deluded than yours. It is utterly scary how ignorant some of these people are. You are idealistic but essentially harmless. But there are people out there that are so radical and deluded that, if TSHTF, I am gonna have to kill them. And if that ever happens, I am betting you will side with us and not them.

  16. Michael says:

    Grim- Get’em!!! That post accusing you of being a racist was just rediculous. Basically, you destroyed this guy in your debate, and he accuses you of being a racist in his last ditch effort to win this debate.

  17. Michael says:

    13- Jason- We have the best education system in the state. Please use facts, before spreading your lies. Only reason people began to bash teachers in this state and think it’s broken is due to Christie using the teacher union as his target to gain political power. Name one suburban school district in nj that isn’t better than the rest of the country. As with the failing urban schools, which state has a higher % of success with this same demographics. Our ghetto schools blow the rest of the country’s ghetto schools out the door. Keep believing the bs that nj schools are failing. I guess if you tell a lie enough people start to believe it.

  18. xolepa says:

    Grim,
    What does race mean to you and me who are of Eastern European descent? Nothing. No guilt whatsoever. My near ancestors were true slaves of the Tsarist system until 1863. Hmmm, does that year mean anything to anyone? Then my grandparents and parents come here to flee Hitler and Stalin. They were too overjoyed in breathing the air of freedom to be bothered about race relations and the implications. But, that doesn’t mean they were blind to it. They first settled in Newark and by the early sixties they sold out.
    My grammar school was essentially all-white with only 1 black family in the 6 years I was there. And that family was cohesive. The mother died during those years and there was a huge local fund drive as there were many children left motherless. Those years were idyllic. Onward toward 7th grade and beyond, all hell broke loose as the schools were integrated with the HUD parts of town. I, for the first time in my life, came in contact with the monsters within our society. Some were white, most were black. The white kids got beat up by abusive fathers and advanced that behavior. The black kids had no fathers. It all boiled over several times a year. That was my exposure to diversity.
    Why do you think NJ is one of the most segregated states? Because people see what diversity means and attempt to avoid it all costs. They will act it out differently, though. But at the end of the day, they will scurry back to their own gene pool.

  19. freedy says:

    When losing in a debate play the race card ,usual works these days. The PC crowd has learned this since they were in dipers and mommy and daddy were nancy and susan.

  20. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Accusations of racism the last bastion of scoundrels.

    By the way I nearly fit the ginker description problem was I played hockey, baseball and football so not totally. So I guess you could say I had hockey hair.

  21. Lurker says:

    ChiFi I saw your response to ‘Nice problem to have’ about options & RSUs. Are you also in equity comp like me? I am for 15 years now

  22. Lurker says:

    I posted that yesterday, and was interested to get the board’s take on my town (Montville) but didn’t get much of a reply… what are your guys thoughts on the ‘ville?

    14. ccb223 says:
    August 13, 2013 at 9:34 am
    Montville and Berkeley Heights make the top 15 places to live…

    http://homes.yahoo.com/photos/money-magazine-s-best-places-to-live-2013-slideshow/

  23. Michael says:

    17- correction- we have the best education system in the COUNTRY. Sorry, it boils my blood when I hear people say our education system is failing. If this state’s education system is failing, than where do I go for an education system that is successful? Alabama, Mississippi, or better yet, the shit hole of state fl? Have some pride in Jersey and it’s top education system. Don’t bash our state because some fat ass used it to gain political power. It’s obvious everyone in this state values education, hence, why it’s so easy to gain political power by saying the education system is failing and you have the answer to fix it. Everyone jumps on board, ESP when you say you will improve it while lowering taxes. Challenge is, we have flat lined in test scores because it’s almost impossible to raise the scores any higher than it is. Do you really think it was more challenging 20 years ago? Are you serious? You think it’s watered down? I’ll put up a 6th grader from today against a 6th grader from 1979, and watch this student put the 1979 student into the ground. The demands on student don’t get watered down, they get tougher and tougher every year.

  24. Michael says:

    22- who cares where they ranked montville. Do you know how hard it is to rank towns across America. I don’t even think montville is the second best town in nj to live in. Those rankings are propaganda based on bs. Montville is a nice town, but should not be ahead of towns like Franklin Lakes, Ridgewood, etc. I can go on and on

  25. Ben says:

    The End is Nigh (Chipotle Edition)

    http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2013/08/chipotle_to_sell_some_beef_tre.html#incart_river_default

    Chipotle to sell some beef treated with antibiotics

    The Tex-Mex restaurant chain Chipotle has adjusted its standards to ensure there’s enough beef in their burritos.

    For years, the eatery with nearly 120 locations in New Jersey has touted its meat as “naturally raised” and not fattened with antibiotics. But because beef production is expected to hit a 21-year low next year, about 15 percent to 20 percent of its inventory will have been treated with antibiotics to prevent illness – but not proactively to add bulk.

    Chris Arnold, a spokesman for Denver-based Chipotle, told Bloomberg that “the change was really rooted in the belief that it’s not the use of antibiotics for the treatment of illness that is the problem. The problem is the copious amount of antibiotics that are used to promote growth.”

    Chipotle is trying to find new cattle suppliers and is considering using different cuts of meat for its steak and barbacoa shredded beef burritos. The chain also sells naturally raised grilled steak at its new Asian-themed store, ShopHouse.

    Allowing sick animals treated with antibiotics to remain in Chipotle’s supply chain will increase the amount of beef available to the company.

    On its website, the company says “Once in awhile we do experience a shortage in certain areas of the country and we’ll let you know at the restaurants if that happens.”

    Chipotle sells about 120 million pounds a year of naturally raised pork, chicken and beef that meets its antibiotic-free standards.

    Its idealistic approach to selling meat helped the company double its profits in four years and grow its brand.

    But that growth has made it harder to find suppliers who don’t use antibiotics or hormones to fatten their herds. Combined with a livestock decline following a drought last year and an outbreak of illnesses, the U.S. herd is estimated to be the smallest in decades next year.

  26. joyce says:

    Can similar statements be applied to school rankings?

    Michael says:
    August 13, 2013 at 10:00 am
    22- who cares where they ranked montville. Do you know how hard it is to rank towns across America. I don’t even think montville is the second best town in nj to live in. Those rankings are propaganda based on bs. Montville is a nice town, but should not be ahead of towns like Franklin Lakes, Ridgewood, etc. I can go on and on

  27. Michael says:

    18- good post. It’s not about race, it’s about the damn class. Rich people don’t want to be with poor people regardless of class. Hence, why so many nj towns are a tale of two sides of the track.

  28. grim says:

    22 – Love the feel of the town, the mix of historical homes and farms give it a feel that you just don’t find in many of the neighboring towns. Hell, I could drop someone out there and they would swear they were somewhere out in Bucks, etc. I will say though, I don’t feel the McMansion build out of the town is entirely a positive. That trend looks like it will continue. I feel this will over time negatively impact the character and feel that made it so charming in the first place.

    It’s also next to what I would consider the *best* intersection in all of New Jersey (if there could be such a thing) – Powerville Road and Rockaway Valley Rd (Brook Hollow Farm I think). Nothing better in the early morning, especially if the sheep and goats are out. I think this is very typical of that same Montville vibe. I almost bought a house on West Road, just a road away, just to be near it. My usual bike route through the area would take me on Rockaway Valley/Taylortown/Main.

  29. AG says:

    Dont forget to vote down your local school budgets today.

    This blog is racist. I’m offended.

  30. Michael says:

    27- correction- I’m writing so fast that I’m not proof reading. Rich people don’t want to be with poor people regardless of race

  31. grim says:

    There are a couple of roads and intersections in Mendham, Far Hills, Peapack that are pretty damn spectacular as well, but in those cases you somewhat expect it given the insane amount of money in the area.

  32. grim says:

    This blog is racist. I’m offended.

    Sorry, I shouldn’t be recommending Montville, too white, I think they hand out clan membership cards when you first move in.

  33. Libtard in Union says:

    I guess I’m a racist.

    Here is Montclair’s new municipal judge.

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/124758889_Municipal_prosecutor_penalized.html?page=all

  34. Jason says:

    Michael, our National ranking compared to other Nations in math and reading keeps slipping. You are going to deny this?

    Are you seriously going to deny that our curriculum has not been dumbed-down over the years?

  35. grim says:

    I did bike through Irvington once, I was biking back from Millburn/South Orange, and I wanted to take a flatter/straighter route home, so I think I cruised straight down Springfield Ave right into Irvington. That was a bad idea, ended up cutting straight up through Irvington, EO, and back through Bloomfield/GR, what a mess that was. I’m pretty sure I ended up tracking back up to Grove street and running parallel with the parkway for a long while. White guy in spandex on a skinny tire bike is clearly a rarity in the neighborhood.

    So yeah, not nearly as picturesque as the morning mist slowly burning off over the corn stalks rustling in the cool breeze, across the way a small pack of young lambs huddled together grazing on a patch of clover dispersed among a rocky field. Not a car (or a person) in sight at all.

    Crazy, since the two places are separated by not a whole 15 miles as the crow flies.

  36. Juice Box says:

    re: Stop-and-Frisk, kind of an empty victory. The judge did not order it stopped. It is also being expanded everywhere around the country.

    The issue of wace will always come up so to eliminate any chance of profiling the government can and will move towards further invasive technology just like we have at some airports.

    If I were in the business of protecting people like Bloomberg claims he is I would push for millimeter wave scanners everywhere instead. No need to stop anybody just put the scanners at all public places like doorways, subways, buses. Once a weapon is detected by an automated computerized scanner the computer notifies the Police to stop and frisk based upon probable cause. The Police can follow the perp using the cellphone system to track a persons location by IMEI number even if they attempt to escape.

    We are heading there. The technology is almost there.

  37. Lurker says:

    28 yeah, that is a great intersection. We call it Four Corners, and the farm grows/sells Xmas trees you cut down yourself and also has a petting zoo for the kids to pet/feed the animals including the alpacas!

    Plus we love it because our lake club, Deer Lake, is < 1 mile east of that intersection. Good local hiking there with Pyramid Mountain, Turkey Hill, etc. And Deer Lake Club's hiking trails connect up with Pyramid Mountain

  38. xolepa says:

    Grim, White guy on Springfield Ave in Irvington/Newark border=1 dead white guy. How do I know? My grandparents lived near intersection of Springfield and 13th.

  39. Lurker says:

    24 this FAQ on the criteria used, etc may help you understand why Montville was ranked but those other towns were not:

    http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/best-places/2013/faq/index.html

    I believe Ridgewood has been ranked there previously

  40. Carlito says:

    I am not racist. I am very happy that young chine$$e families are moving into my town.

  41. grim says:

    Montclair always irked me as being held up as the prototypical shining star of diversity.

    Household Income in the Upper Mountain Area – $198,000
    Household Income in the Estates Area – $226,000
    Household Income on Mission Street – $28,500

    % of white population in Upper Montclair (Valley Area) – 95.1%
    % of white population on Mission Street – 5.5%

    Plenty of neighborhoods where the poverty rate is in excess of 30%, even some areas where the childhood poverty rate pushes above 40%. Does this make any sense to you? A 40% childhood poverty rate literally right down Bloomfield ave from a neighborhood that has a *MEDIAN* income of $226,000? I’d love to see what the income quintiles for estates, I bet you the top 5th of the households in the neighborhood are upwards of $350,000 a year income. And a 40% childhood poverty rate down the street.

    Nothing to see here….

    How many kids are enrolled in Montclair Kimberly these days? Is it now over 1000?

  42. Lurker says:

    worth pointing out that Montville has been consistently ranked there over the years

  43. Libtard in Union says:

    “Are you seriously going to deny that our curriculum has not been dumbed-down over the years?”

    I don’t know if it’s Glen Ridge schools or not, but what Gator Jr. learned in 2nd grade, I didn’t learn until 3rd and 4th, when I was his age in the late 70’s. I also never had the homework assignments or reading lists that he is required to complete. In first grade, he often had 60 to 90 minutes of work every night but Friday. He has book reports to do this summer as well as a memory box project. Now how this stacks up against schools in other states, I have no clue. But I don’t think non-urban schools in NJ are suffering at all. Though isn’t it time to end the stupid NJEA conference vacation already. I’ve been down to AC when the conference is occurring and very few teachers are attending it. Anecdotally, many of these teachers are terrible gamblers.

  44. Michael says:

    34-Jason- Another bs stat, you have picked up over the years. America’s educational system counts every child in our educational testing scores. Most of these countries you claim are better than the U.S. leave out the poor kids in their test results. If the u.s. left out the poor and only counted to wealthy, we would not be having this conversation.

  45. huhu says:

    As a long-timer who rarely posts, I have to agree with Grim on the racial diversity arguments here.

  46. Michael says:

    46-libtard- Thank you, finally someone who doesn’t have a romanticized view of their childhood education. This guy Jason doesn’t even understand how ignorant he sounds when he picks up talking pts from Christie’s twitter page. Kids have it tough today, to use “watered down” as a reason for such high test scores is a kick in the stomach to our children. Keep attacking our education system, instead of supporting it, this is one way it surely will go on a downward trajectory, which is bad for our state and society.

  47. grim says:

    While neighboring Clifton is equally as diverse as Montclair, it certainly seems significantly less stratified – As defined by the mean difference between the whitest neighborhoods and least white neighborhoods

    In Clifton – The whitest neighborhood is only 70%, compared to Montclair and Maplewood’s 90+% white neighborhoods. Clifton’s least white neighborhood is only 45% white, giving a difference of 25% across neighborhoods, compared to nearly 90% in Montclair and Maplewood.

    You sure these places are really shining stars of diversity? The level of racial and economic stratification is astounding.

    Or is it because they contain extremely wealthy neighborhoods, and that somehow makes them more legitimate from a “diversity” perspective?

  48. joyce says:

    43

    I cannot comment on the effective of elementary schools recently. However that amount of remedial classes being offered in every college (can’t speak to the Ivy’s) would be a cause of concern for me.

  49. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Grim almost bought a house on powerville in boonton fell through cause guy would not budge. As much as we lik Randolph would trade it for Boonton Township in a second. Montville is nice too ; )

  50. 1987 Condo says:

    #41..I think you are very correct, I think people are really looking for diversity amongst other “well to do” and educated people.

  51. Libtard in Union says:

    Grim,

    Montclair loves its diversity. As long as it stays on the other side of the tracks. Literally. If anything, I’ve watched Montclair morph from a town that used to be way prouder of its diversity into a town that is now way prouder of it’s acceptance of g@y, lesbi@n and mixed couple families. Montclair used to have great thrift shops and cheap eats. It was much more an artists community. It is definitely becoming more of a Park Slope off shoot. I see a lot more nannies, a lot more high end chain stores and a lot more Kumons. This is to be expected I suppose as at least two out of every three new families are from Brooklyn or the upper east and west side.

  52. Michael says:

    40-lurker-
    This is exactly why most nj towns were left off the list. Btw, I have a couple friends that live in the Valhalla section. I’m very familiar with all parts of montville.

    “Screen out places with a median family income of more than 200% or less than 85% of the state average; those with more than 95% of one race; “

  53. freedy says:

    White People Think College Admission Should Be Based On Test Scores Except When They Learn Asians Score Better Than Whites

    From Slate:http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/08/13/white_people_s_meritocracy_hypocrisy.html

  54. Michael says:

    56- I also have friends in the towaco section, right by that jersey housewives loser of a Mom’s house.

  55. Libtard in Union says:

    “Or is it because they contain extremely wealthy neighborhoods, and that somehow makes them more legitimate from a “diversity” perspective?”

    I think you are spot on here Grim. Montclair is extremely liberal. I’ve lived in Clifton and Jersey City as well as Lincoln Park, Wayne, East Brunswick and West Hollywood among other places. Nowhere have I seen such an extreme population. I know I joke about the Prius’ and the Outbacks, but it really is unbelievable how many people drive them in Montclair. I would say that one in ten cars are a hybrid if not more. I’m thoroughly convinced that people choose to live in Montclair so they can “say” to everyone else that they are doing their liberal part to end racism. Meanwhile, when it comes to lottery day in the magnet school system, these same families will go to any length to try to game the system to make sure their precious children do not end up at the schools in the south end. No it’s not the case with every family, but it is very common. Montclair has more private schools than one can count on one hand. Why is that?

  56. Anon E. Moose says:

    Lib [54];

    That’s just the liberal mentality of moral one-upmanship. Living in the same town (but not on the same block) with a family of different skin hue is passe — they no longer get a thrill on differentiating themselves in that way. So they move on to something else, for example GLBT worship. That’s even a smaller minority than race, so the left should be able to milk the guilt out of that group for a good long time. For their own part, the GLBT people should just look at all the good 50 years of one-party fealty has done for blacks when deciding who deserves their support.

  57. Ownership of weapons is a great soci@l equalizer.

  58. Michael says:

    58-anon the moose- That article leaves out some very important statistics. It says that education scores have flat lined since the 70’s. Well that’s a false stat. The population of poor has increased dramatically since the 70’s. The middle class has been eaten away. So for the scores to remain stagnant with a growing population of poor is pretty amazing. Keep looking at education as a waste of money. Go to Zimbabwe and see what happens with no education. Don’t use Asia as an example. Asians realize why America is great, because of such a large educated class of people. Even poor kids know how to read and write (not high level) in America. Lets see if that happens in china or India.

  59. Montklair prolly not at all different from what upscale suburbs of Bogota or Buenos Aires became 25 years ago.

    Private militia, anyone?

  60. Fast Eddie says:

    In Clifton – The whitest neighborhood is only 70%

    Blink and that number will change.

  61. Michael says:

    58-I said this last week about Montclair, and was thrown to the wolves. Was told I don’t know Montclair and I agreed. Guess I was right, Montclair Kimberly was all the proof I needed.

  62. 1987 Condo says:

    #60…has the population of poor increased dramatically? The Pew report I previously referenced shows that the middle class has decreased with the majority of those leaving the middle class moving into the “upper” class. What is the definition of poor? Since everyone seems to have cell phones, hdtv, etc? Not saying that things are easy or I haven’t felt under duress for my 30 years of working, or that my standard of living, in general, hasn’t “declined” or not kept pace..but we are in a global economy and it makes sense that things may even out over time?

    What do I know? My greatest realization when I was 32 was knowing that Montclair and West Orange would be the last places I would move to!!

  63. grim says:

    Guess I was right, Montclair Kimberly was all the proof I needed.

    959 was the enrollment in the 2009-2010 school year.

    Tuition for the 2013 school year, for high school, is $33,100 per year.

    Tell me, who is sending their kids to MKA at $33,100 a year?

  64. Only thing that differentiates a skool like Kimberley is the kids can afford much better drugs.

    Oh, and if you can play soccer, the entrance exam there is fog a mirror.

  65. grim (64)-

    Only suckers pay full price.

  66. Michael says:

    48-grim- Great post. Your point is right on. Montclair is considered a trophy of diversity, meanwhile the wealthy neighborhoods are 90% white. Clifton, based on its demographic statistics, is really what a diversified town represents. Hmm, I wonder why none of these proponents of diversification are rushing to clifton? Btw, clifton is a great city. A lot of clifton neighborhoods are the first step up for people from the lowest part of society. It is a city of people working hard to better themselves. Of course people put it down because it is not a white lily town anymore.

  67. Can’t understand these prep skools that charge college-type tuition and only succeed in producing fodder for colleges who salivate at the prospect of getting mom and dad to pay full boat for 4-5 years for one of these bags of blood.

  68. Michael says:

    64-1987 condo- Def some of the middle class has moved up but the majority of missing middle class has now become poor. Cell phones are not a luxury in our society, they are a necessity. Going to MKA to escape having poor kids learning with your children is a luxury.

  69. Michael says:

    64- police are def some of the middle class that left for the upper class. Legal extortion.

    http://news.yahoo.com/ny-nj-port-authority-beat-policeman-earns-221-202750138.html

  70. Delbarton, Pingry, Gill St. Bernards, Kimberley…look at where these kids end up going to kolledge. They all ain’t Ivy/NESCAC/MIT. In fact, the distribution is about the same as any fair-middling NJ public HS.

  71. 125K in prep skool tuition for your kid to end up at Penn St. is not a great investment.

    No knock on Penn St.

  72. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Clifton is a great town as long as you get your kids out by the time they reach high school.

  73. chicagofinance says:

    bigot

    grim says:
    August 13, 2013 at 8:47 am

  74. Best soccer players in NJ are from Clifton. Been that way since Rossi.

  75. Fast Eddie says:

    Meat,

    I had a choice of sending my kid to Clifton HS or a private school. It didn’t take me long to make a decision. :)

  76. Michael says:

    72- so you are saying, based on the stat comparisons, that our public education is actually relatively a great bargain, not the rip-off that many claim. You know, since it costs 30,000 and have an elite demography attending, our public schools are doing a damn good job with the demographics it teaches.

  77. Don’t need no skool to be a footballer.

  78. Michael says:

    76- clifton is by far and away the best place for producing soccer studs.

  79. michael (77)-

    Wrong. Public skools are purposely set up to be failure academies, and private skools aren’t any better, as the quality of instruction and academic rigor (or lack thereof) is virtually identical.

    If you’re assessing outcomes based on college admissions (admittedly rather insane, since most kolledges are no more than advanced failure academies), I’m simply saying that somebody who shells out 130-150K for a private skool to essentially take his kid to the same level he would’ve achieved in a public skool is a malinvestment.

  80. Libtard in Union says:

    Other private schools in Montclair. There’s also LaCordaire and Montclair Cooperative School, Immaculate Conception School and I think I’m missing one more.

  81. Michael says:

    My friends sister went to LaCordaire. She now teaches French in some Newark public school now.

  82. Michael says:

    83- disregard all the grammatical errors lol

  83. chicagofinance says:

    How long before there is a school named Surrogate Placenta Harvest School?

    Libtard in Union says:
    August 13, 2013 at 11:26 am
    Immaculate Conception School and I think I’m missing one more.

  84. Fast Eddie says:

    She now teaches French in some Newark public school now.

    I wonder how you say, “I’m gonna cap the m’fer” in French?

  85. Check out TSF soccer. Most of the kids are Clifton. Multiracial…and you don’t see the field if you’re not a blood-drinking monster with serious skills. My kid plays against teams from all over the US, but they are one of the few teams anywhere he loves going up against, because they challenge hard the whole game and will do things that will help you learn (even as they rip you apart).

    Develop MLS teams with players like this, and people might give a damn. Most of these players have too much flavor for national-level coaches to give them a second look.

  86. grim says:

    chicagofinance says:
    August 13, 2013 at 11:20 am (Edit)
    bigot

    Yeah, it just really burns me. I grew up in an immigrant family who strove to be an integrated part of this country. As a kid, I watched my father take speech classes so that he would lose his eastern european accent, he taught himself the language before he even got here. I’m not talking about abandoning your heritage at all here, nothing nearly like that, so when I see insular communities, who shun outsiders, and generally don’t care about integration and inclusion, it kills me. Worse are communities that actually push for wider levels of segregation. I just don’t get it, feels contrary to the whole premise this country was founded on. Grew up eating pierogis for lunch, than going over to a friends house and having mochi ice cream as a snack, and not once did either of us not feel welcome, given the radical differences in cultures.

  87. gary (85)-

    Je vais coiffer la pute.

  88. Fast Eddie says:

    lol!! :)

  89. chicagofinance says:

    I am a financial planner…..as an example I literally just wired 30 minutes ago a six figure sum to a company’s ISO administrator to exercise an expiring tranche…..we will probably purchase a bunch of puts to protect the position while we wait for LTCG treatment, or at a minimum, carry the position to 1/1……the marginal tax rate for cashless exercise is stunning……I think we estimated it at 54% in 2013……

    Lurker says:
    August 13, 2013 at 9:54 am
    ChiFi I saw your response to ‘Nice problem to have’ about options & RSUs. Are you also in equity comp like me? I am for 15 years now

  90. Michael says:

    81- what? Setup to be failure academies? I can’t say I agree. You think it’s easy to educate people? ESP, in critical thinking? You think it’s easy to teach kids advanced math, reading, and writing? Some people must believe in “magic”. Education is an everyday challenge. Majority of kids are not geniuses, and do not pick up advanced learning in a blink of an eye. I’m proud of the nj education system. It’s the best. Go see places like New Mexico or fl and you will see why I am so proud of our state education system.

  91. grim (87)-

    These insular ethnic communities are intentionally set up to be economic parasites. They all also work every trick in the book to use their religion/ethnicity to lever their way into fully tapping the entitlement gravy train and milking it for every available penny.

    You let everyone willing to swim a river or cross Texas in a 110-degree truck stay in the US- and send all the religious/ethnic parasites to Timbuktu- the illegal immigration problem is solved.

  92. Michael (91)-

    No, it’s not easy. That’s why most skools stopped doing it around 30 years ago.

    Kids now have the same potential as kids 30, 50, 100, 200 years ago. Difference now is that those in charge of teaching them are, themselves, both ignorant and incapable of critical thought.

    “You think it’s easy to educate people? ESP, in critical thinking? You think it’s easy to teach kids advanced math, reading, and writing?”

  93. Michael says:

    87- it’s only a matter of time before soccer takes over the u.s. Don’t laugh, people thought baseball would always be on top. Football has taken it over. Almost no kids play baseball anymore. Football is becoming too dangerous and will eventually be taken over by soccer.

  94. chicagofinance says:

    Down where I am is very republican and xenophobic……I am stunned sometimes by the level of ignorance…..actually in a community such as Colts Neck, it actually makes sense to avoid those who actively seek to involve themselves in the general social scene, because it is so provincial…..and they have no idea….

    grim says:
    August 13, 2013 at 11:32 am
    chicagofinance says:
    August 13, 2013 at 11:20 am (Edit)
    bigot

    Yeah, it just really burns me. I grew up in an immigrant family who strove to be an integrated part of this country. As a kid, I watched my father take speech classes so that he would lose his eastern european accent. I’m not talking about abandoning your heritage at all here, nothing nearly like that, so when I see insular communities, who shun outsiders, and generally don’t care about integration and inclusion, it kills me. Worse are communities that actually push for wider levels of segregation. I just don’t get it, feels contrary to the whole premise this country was founded on. Grew up eating pierogis for lunch, than going over to a friends house and having mochi ice cream as a snack, and not once did either of us not feel welcome, given the radical differences in cultures.

  95. The one piece of luck I’ve had in life was getting an incredible education. The only scantron/multiple choice test I took before kolledge was the SAT.

    My son goes to a “Blue Ribbon” HS, and his first crack at anything NOT scantron was honors English in 9th grade. His first couple of tests were 5-6 paragraph responses, and his hand hurt afterwards.

  96. Fast Eddie says:

    it’s only a matter of time before soccer takes over the u.s.

    Personally, it saddens me because deep down, I believe it’s true. I always thought baseball and football identified us as America. What about my heritage? Am I supposed to feel guilty for wanting to prolong it?

  97. Anyone who thinks soccer is less dangerous than football is living in a fool’s paradise.

    Maybe it is, at a rec level. Certainly it isn’t at a full competitive level.

  98. gary (97)-

    Football and baseball have devolved into a freak show of PEDs, stupid money and gladiator-type combatants whose riches and basic health are separated from them within minutes of retirement.

  99. Jason says:

    Michael, the town of Montclair spends $114 million to teach aprox. 6800 children per year. 114 MILLION DOLLARS!!

    Is that money well spent?

  100. grim says:

    By the way, to this day I still love mochi ice cream, my god that stuff is just fantastic. I remember going to some big asian market in Bergen (Tenafly? Teaneck?) in the late 80s and getting that stuff with my friends family. Can’t exactly remember where it was, but somewhere near Van Saun maybe. For years I had no idea what it was, until I came across it in an asian grocery, and was just blown away that I was able to find it again. It’s really become popular now, and you can even get it at whole foods (Bubbies from Hawaii).

    Also meant I got to play cool video games like famicom, where nobody else had that kind of stuff. By the way, if you think kids really care about race at all, spend 10 minutes watching them play online videogames, and you’ll quickly realize that race is largely irrelevant in their world view.

  101. Michael says:

    101-Jason- how much of that money goes to companies raping montclair’s education budget. Don’t get mad at education, get mad at the companies taking advantage and ripping off the system. I forgot most people don’t like to dig deep, so they are ignorant of why eduction costs so much. Fraud by private companies!!!

  102. As long as the US has managers like Bruce Arena and some of these other MLS gristlesteaks, soccer is dead in the water. It’s a middling league full of middling players.

    Being able to fill a 25,00 seat stadium to watch a bunch of salary-capped guys who got drafted out of college to play is not an accomplishment. Filling Maracana or Aztec Stadium with 100,000 people who skip meals to afford tickets to watch real players is the accomplishment.

  103. grim says:

    Thought Brazil was two matches away from burning Maracana to the ground in revolt?

  104. Michael says:

    99- I meant football is more dangerous due to concussions and the toll the hits take on the body. Soccer is very physical game, even more so than football. It’s just that football is based on ignorant physicality. It forces line man to bulk up and destroy their bodies. It’s terrible.

  105. joyce says:

    Oh please

    Michael says:
    August 13, 2013 at 11:12 am

    Cell phones are not a luxury in our society, they are a necessity.

  106. zieba says:

    RE: 102

    I took some friends for lunch at Mitsuwa Market in Edgewater. When we all reconvened at the table with our noodle trays one guy brought back three boxes of mochi ice cream balls/puffs. More sat fat than a dozen whoppers…but damn it was good.

    RE: 95
    You want to see a group that refuses to assimilate? Go see the Borg like Asian population of southern Brooklyn. I’ve seen parents helping their children defaecate in the streets.

  107. 1987 Condo says:

    #96..my wife teaches HS Math, apparently the only teacher in recent memory that has not used scantron…or taken questions from the internet or the back of the book, but generates each new test by hand….

  108. joyce says:

    Yes yes. When money and power is concentrated, criminals will line up at the trough. What is the facade used to legitimize the concetration of power and the legal use of force? Hint, Michael… it starts with a G

    Michael says:
    August 13, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Fraud by private companies!!!

  109. Michael says:

    101- Jason- it’s obvious these massive education budgets are not going to salaries. I don’t see any teachers making 200,000. Maybe 100,000 after 20 years but for the most part, they are paid very little for a college professional. Why do you think it’s so hard to get science and math teachers? The money in education budgets is stolen by construction companies, testing companies, book companies, etc I could go on and on. Sad how the private industry slime balls take advantage of the education budget behind the scenes. It’s rather disgusting.

  110. Michael says:

    It’s even more sad that teachers are left taking the hit for these slime balls. When has a teacher last been given respect as opposed to demonized by the majority of our citizens? Sad. Smoke and mirrors by the ones really robbing you.

  111. Libtard in Union says:

    I loved living in Clifton. I recommend it to unspoiled people who are just graduating from college. You can get an apartment pretty cheap if you are willing to have roomates pretty close to the train. It’s a quick commute to Manhattan. There are amazing ethnic food options and cheap markets for both dry goods and produce and meats (Corrado’s). As long as you get off Main Ave, people care about their properties upkeep and there is a real mix of people of all ages, professions and ethnicity. I loved it there. I shared a bachelor pad with 4 other guys from college. The apartment was a former frat house so it was dumpy, but this was perfect for us. Negatives were oil heat and the 4 Filipino nurses who lived above us and couldn’t tolerate any noise whatsoever as they worked crazy shifts. Walked to the train in Athenia and rode bike to the markets up Clifton Avenue. Across the street was a great bar (and nightclub) called the Abbey (which has closed since then) and there was an amazing and cheap seafood market up the block where they farmed lobsters (in Clifton no less). It was called the Lobster Barn. Oh, pretty good bagels, pizza and Chinese food too. All for like $300 a month which was my share.

  112. Michael says:

    But privatize everything and fund it with tax dollars. F-in brilliant!! That will solve everything!!

  113. michael (106)-

    Agreed on that. Top level soccer is chess, not checkers. However, it shouldn’t be marketed to suburban moms as a “safe” alternative to football. My pals and I have the scars and permanent aches to prove it, and my son’s legs and feet look like raw hamburger for 10 months out of 12.

  114. Michael, this generation of teachers (as a group) have already been robbed once, in that they got the same shit education they now proffer to the next generation.

  115. grim (105)-

    That’s been true since 1950. Only difference now is that they might burn it down because a plate of black beans costs $27.

    “Thought Brazil was two matches away from burning Maracana to the ground in revolt?”

  116. Michael says:

    114- couldn’t have said it better myself. Clifton gets no respect based on people who remember the white immigration that helped support its “white lily” label back in the day. Clifton hasn’t changed for the worst, it’s the exact same class of people, it’s just that the face of immigration has changed to Latino, which scares some of the 50’s and up population of America that are used to all white neighborhoods.

  117. Michael says:

    108- Joyce- get with the times gal, cell phones are a necessity not a luxury. It’s like telling the families that held out on tv’s, phones, cars, computer’s, etc. that they were right to hold out, those items are only for rich folk. Get with the times!! Cell phones were a luxury item 12 years ago, not anymore.

  118. grim says:

    I remember Clifton has having a high percentage of off the boat immigrants when I was growing up (I graduated in 1994), the only difference is the color and religions of the off the boaters changed a little bit. When I was growing up, it was mainly European and Hispanic immigrants, now there is a higher proportion of Indian and Middle Eastern immigrants. Clifton has a huge population of middle eastern transplants now. Ironically, I’ve felt more welcome in some of the halal meat markets in Paterson than I have in some of the other traditionally insular communities in NJ.

    If you grew up in this area 20 years ago and haven’t been back – If you want a shock, drive down Main Ave into Paterson. It’s no longer hispanic at all, it’s completely arabic now, which marks the second complete transformation of the neighborhood. It went from being predominantly white, to being predominantly hispanic, and now predominantly arabic. It really is amazing to see it, and the falafel is top notch.

  119. joyce says:

    Do you care to insert any reasons or just stick with your original incorrect statement?

  120. joyce says:

    Only in DC: James Clapper, instead of being prosecuted for lying to Congress, will now lead the review of the programs he lied about (and we were promised it would be led by “outside experts”)

    http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/12/4614968/president-obama-james-clapper-dni-surveillance-review-group

    When President Obama announced a series of intelligence reforms last Friday he called for the creation of an independent advisory group made up of “outside experts” who will review controversial surveillance programs. But based on a memorandum issued today by the White House, it’s not clear how independent the effort will be. The president has directed the Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, to establish the “review group” that will be responsible for issuing a report about how surveillance programs “impact our security, our privacy, and our foreign policy.” The review group is intended in part, as the president said last week, to “maintain the trust of the people” — so why did the president put a man at the center of the spying controversy in charge?

  121. Michael says:

    122-grim- took the words out of my mouth!!! Lol

  122. Libtard in Union says:

    Michael,

    I don’t think teachers are demonized at all. As a matter of fact, I think they are extremely well respected. I don’t even think the tea partiers have an issue with their salaries. Nor do I. The problem comes with the benefits and the massive cost for them. I’d rather see them all make a little more dough, but pay more than a pittance into their pension and health benefits. And why the heck are their spouses health covered for life. Also, keep in mind that teachers work less than 200 days per year, so if they are willing to tutor over the summer, they can make a ton off the books too.

    Quite honestly, I think the whole demonization line was a strategic dialogue created by the NJEA to be brought up anytime their gold-clad benefits were being attacked. Everything has gotten so politically motivated lately. Everything is divisive. It would be nice if people could think for themselves on occasion rather than to simply follow their parties playbook. Baa. Baa.

  123. Michael says:

    117-scrapple- If you think the education is so bad, then please provide reasons why it is so much worst than 30 years ago? Also provide some ways to improve this “terrible education” students are getting. Please leave teachers union argument out of it. That argument was created by people trying to take over public education dollars, it’s a bunch of bs!!

  124. Michael says:

    126- yes sir. You think America is corrupt? You haven’t seen anything yet!! China’s rich just do what they want.

  125. daddyo says:

    Every time we hear a nightmare story from another soccer parent, it’s playing versus a team from Clifton. It’s not usually the kids (they play rough and dirty, but that’s fine), it’s the idiot parents. It’s almost always the idiot parents in general. If I were a ref, I would take about one comment per game from anyone on the sidelines before I started throwing spectators out. I play soccer with a bunch of guys that ref, and I honestly don’t know how they put up with it.

    I heard in England there is a huge ref shortage, and lots of youth games are played without them. Idiot parents ran them all out of the job.

  126. Libtard in Union says:

    Yes. Head north of 46 and it’s all arab. South of 46 is still mostly Latino. Piaget Avenue is the dividing line. Though I think West takes you more into the more senior and East European community still. East is truly a mix.

  127. daddyo says:

    Oh, and Trader Joe’s has decent Mochi Balls, our freezer is almost never found without at least one box.

  128. Michael says:

    Be wary of the call for “no regulations”. You will end up with problems this country faced in the 1800’s and that china is facing now. Pollution is rampant and out of control. You know, for example, lets go fishing or swimming in the lower passaic river, because no regulation on companies led to some fabulous problems costing this generation big time in cleanup costs.

  129. michael (126)-

    Please rephrase your question without the embedded strawman.

  130. joyce says:

    I’m going to go with Scrapple’s advice and stop feeding.

  131. daddyo (128)-

    Dunno about that. Have played a ton of games, including two State Cup finals vs. TSF- many of those games in Clifton- and their parents know the game and make noise, not much more. Wish they hadn’t discovered vuvuzuelas, but hey, that’s football.

    After two especially hard-fought games (we lost both in extra time), their parents all shook our hands and went out of their way to compliment our team.

  132. Libtard in Union says:

    I’ve reffed for hockey. I’ve thrown many parents out, which sadly is always a relief to their child on the ice. Not a one of these kids we see playing will make a penny playing professional sports. Maybe one or two will scholarship. These parents need to chill. Talk about ignorance.

    Gator Junior is playing travel hockey and travel soccer in the fall. He will have a practice, a game or multiple games just about every day between September 1st and Thanksgiving. I warned him that his life will be soccer, hockey and homework with no time to even watch tv or play the Wii. He is ready to make the sacrifice. The kid lives and breathes sports. By the way. We’ll be at the Crystal Palace home opener secretly rooting for Bale and my Spurs on Sunday. Could be the last time Bale plays for ’em. With Rooney injured (again), and no other major purchases made this Summer, I think the evil club overpays for Bale just to help their new coach. Man, I hate the way the payrolls work in the EPL.

  133. Michael, look at Detroit.

    Now, start calculating when that will occur here.

    Hint: it will.

  134. Levy will be found dead if he sells Bale to another EPL team.

  135. Michael says:

    133- the teachers union is obviously not that strong, so I don’t want to hear that argument. Christie got everything he wanted from teachers. They lost almost everything.

    Why are you not going after the police unions? Those freaking salaries are absurd. I have no problem paying a teacher 100,000 after 20 years exp. I have a major problem paying cops 200,000 with ot included. Where is the anger towards this? How come its only at teachers. Keep feeding troll is your response? Ignorant response, you must be a cop or some CEO who needs the cops protection.

  136. No problem paying a gym teacher 100K?

  137. Libtard in Union says:

    My son’s non-mastered Kindergarten teacher made 100K, but admittedly, she did work forever to get there.

  138. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    I have been staying out of this mainly because I’m busy, but have to chime in. Michael teachers with a broad based brush are not the problem I’m sure some are great people, and I know plenty that i truly love as people. As far as shaping young minds, half of them could not form complete sentences or do basic math. The public education system of the last 30 years has put a high value on gaining conformity at the expense of creative thinking. Children are expected to fill neat little boxes and parrot government approved jibber jabber. History is improperly taught, math and sciences dumbed down, and proper english a joke. Creative thinking is no longer encouraged and I’m continually amazed at the crap that comes through the public education system through my place of employment.

    For the record have you actually been to schools in NM and FL. My nephews who graduated from a high school in rural FL were doing things that far exceeded what my friend’s kids in NJ were doing in the same grades. Those kids went to supposed blue ribbon schools and had parental involvement.

    Admit it for what it is, the NJ education system is a criminal enterprise whose mission is to extort the taxpayers for as much scratch as possible. They just happen to teach some kids along the way.

    And cell phones a neccesity!? WTF, food water, clothing, and shelter are necesssities the rest are wants. Our poor live better than most countries middle classes.

  139. Michael says:

    140- ok, you got me there but I think they do have to teach health. The people who should be complaining about that are the subject teachers. It’s ridiculous that they are on the same pay scale. Def a negative of the union.

    Another question? If we didnt have unions, how much would it cost to hire teachers. I bet a lot more than the current pay scale. Rich towns would be in a race to pay for the best. Be careful what you ask for. Right now, the state gets a nice pay scale with which it pays for teachers across the board.

  140. Brian says:

    Christie cut state funding to quite a few cities and plenty of cops were laid off…..Newark, Trenton, Camden, etc.

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/25/352699/christie-budget-4000-police/

    Christie did not get everything he wanted either. He wanted to send less money to Abott districts but the State Supreme court made him send more. The state legislature wants to contintue this, and purposely blocks or stonewalls all of the people he appoints to the court of appeals.

    138.Michael says:
    August 13, 2013 at 12:56 pm
    133- the teachers union is obviously not that strong, so I don’t want to hear that argument. Christie got everything he wanted from teachers. They lost almost everything.

    Why are you not going after the police unions? Those freaking salaries are absurd. I have no problem paying a teacher 100,000 after 20 years exp. I have a major problem paying cops 200,000 with ot included. Where is the anger towards this? How come its only at teachers. Keep feeding troll is your response? Ignorant response, you must be a cop or some CEO who needs the cops protection.

  141. Michael says:

    142-pain- Are you serious about fl eduction being on par with Jersey? You are crazy!!!!! I can’t even waste my time on this. You are ignorant, if you think that is really true. You are probably an ego maniac, it’s the only conclusion I can come up with why you think people come to your job undereducated. Maybe you are not paying enough to attract the best and brightest, or maybe the best and brightest are your competition.

  142. Brian says:

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/life_in_dog_cage_yZiwcoSsx5b842jXeHEWcK

    Nothing personal pain…but your comments and Michael’s assertion that “cell phones are a neccesity” made me think of this story.

    “And cell phones a neccesity!? WTF, food water, clothing, and shelter are necesssities the rest are wants. Our poor live better than most countries middle classes.”

  143. Anon E. Moose says:

    Michael [131];

    Are you trying to say that people are going hungry because they can’t fish out of the Passaic river? Or that we should hold up the economy for the benefit of casual recreational sportsmen?

  144. Libtard in Union says:

    Christie was ok until he developed aspirations for higher office. I was totally behind his 2.5% property tax increase cap. He wanted it to have no loopholes whatsoever. An absolute cap. The state assmbly (Dems) would not accept it and made the cap have so many exceptions that the cap looks like a tennis visor. Already the election masters of the Republican party are doing their best to ruin him. If Christie placates the far right factions of the RP by not passing any of the (mostly symbolic) NJ gun reforms, then he will be lucky to do as well as McCain and Romney did in their runs.

  145. Libtard in Union says:

    if cell phones are not a necessity then smart phones are an absolute luxury. I’m still getting by with my non-smart phone. Shoot, if it weren’t for my latest boss, I would still be using a pager.

  146. grim says:

    If Christie placates the far right factions of the RP by not passing any of the (mostly symbolic) NJ gun reforms

    I believe Christie signed off on 10 of the 15 total.

    He also just appointed a Cuban-American Democratic judge to the NJ supreme court.

    Both of these a FU to the far right republicans.

  147. Brian says:

    What’s wierd is I think the ban on .50 cal was his idea….but he seems to be dragging his feet and hasn’t signed the bill into law yet.

    “If Christie placates the far right factions of the RP by not passing any of the (mostly symbolic) NJ gun reforms, then he will be lucky to do as well as McCain and Romney did in their runs.”

  148. Brian says:

    He signed ten. But there are a bunch left, including the ban on .50 cal and Sweeney’s new drivers license gun registry bill (which is the most hated by the pro-gun types).

    149.grim says:
    August 13, 2013 at 1:22 pm
    If Christie placates the far right factions of the RP by not passing any of the (mostly symbolic) NJ gun reforms

    I believe Christie signed all of them except one.

    He also just appointed a Cuban-American Democratic judge to the NJ supreme court.

    Both of these a FU to the far right republicans.

  149. Libtard in Union says:

    Good. It will be fun to watch him on the national circuit. Thanks for update Grim.

  150. grim says:

    151 – Yeah I had gone back and corrected that as soon as I clicked post, I initially thought there were 3 remaining, then I realized 5 were outstanding when I looked it up.

  151. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    Boy, looks like I missed one helluva food fight.

    If I had to categorize Michael, who is not easy to peg, I’d go with populist. And he seems to be fitting in nicely–the appropriate mix of erudition, bile, and a dash of snark where called for. Welcome, Michael.

    FWIW, the collection of comments here, from both sides, is not nearly as scary as some I see elsewhere. Except for Clot and we know he isn’t completely serious.

    BTW, Clot, I am presently enjoying some of the Rousillon you sold me.

  152. grim says:

    The .50 cal ban is silly, in reality this is largely symbolic, technically is completely meaningless. It won’t impact him at all, existing 50 cal owners will rejoice because it will make their toys even more expensive, as they probably won’t restrict the sale of pre-ban guns.

    I admit, I always wanted a 50 caliber rifle, they are really just awesome pieces of machinery.

    Why do I say meaningless? Everyone else will just go out and buy the new .416 Barrett. Many of the large caliber 50bmgs can be converted to .416 with a barrel swap alone.

    Private market solutions to silly legislation. .338 lapua probably just as fun on the range too.

  153. Brian says:

    153 – Lately I’ve found the debate over the gun issue fascinating in this state. One of the most interesting developments is the case Evan Nappen brought before the State Supreme court challenging the “justifiable need” requirement for CCW permits.

    While most of the country seems to be loosening gun laws….states like NY, NJ, CA, etc. seem to be going in the other direction and tightening them.

  154. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    [156] brian

    I think Justifiable Need was upheld by the 3rd Circuit. I would guess that Nappen is challenging the “as applied” aspect since no judge in NJ ever grants a permit, so the ability to show justifiable need is merely a pretense, a bar that can never be met. At that point, it is subject to challenge.

  155. grim says:

    By the way, very few criminals going to be using a 50 caliber rifle.

    Cost of entry is easily 8 grand for the rifle alone, let alone a good scope. Probably closer to 10 grand all in for a nice gun.

    Ammunition easily costs $4 a round. If you buy in bulk, maybe you can get that down to $3.50 a shot.

    A Barrett M82 weights somewhere around 30 pounds all setup, and can not be fired accurately standing up, you must be lying down using the tripod for any chance at all of accuracy.

  156. 1987 Condo says:

    I used to go shooting with my bud back in early 80’s, I guess NJ passed some law that classified his gun as an assault weapon or something, very pissed at that so he moved to Texas.

  157. Brian says:

    I wonder if much of the legislation is unconstitutional in light of the 2008 Heller decision…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

    and the 2010 McDonald decision.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

    There’s an organization….NJ2AS, whose ranks seem to be growing in the state and they seem hellbent on challenging many of the state’s laws in the courts.

    I’m not a big fan of guns or anything, but they make some pretty good arguments.

  158. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    [158] grim,

    FWIW, have you noticed that the groups that current legislative initiatives are targetted toward are not really criminals?

    Assault-style rifles and .50 cal are almost never used in crimes. But they are purchased. And, of late, they are targeted by governments, usually democratic ones.

    The questions to be asked is who is buying and why does the government want to stop them from getting guns? Answer those questions and you will know who those in power in these states and in DC really fear.

  159. Brian says:

    Do you think they have a leg to stand on?

    http://www.ammoland.com/2013/07/evan-nappen-to-bring-justifiable-need-case-to-nj-supreme-court/#axzz2bs9wLVH8

    157.Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:
    August 13, 2013 at 1:35 pm
    [156] brian

    I think Justifiable Need was upheld by the 3rd Circuit. I would guess that Nappen is challenging the “as applied” aspect since no judge in NJ ever grants a permit, so the ability to show justifiable need is merely a pretense, a bar that can never be met. At that point, it is subject to challenge.

  160. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    [162] Brian,

    Not before this court. For Nappen to win, he has to take his case to First St. in DC. Perhaps that is what he is hoping.

  161. Brian says:

    I think that’s the idea. NJSC is just a stop along the way…

    163.Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:
    August 13, 2013 at 1:50 pm
    [162] Brian,

    Not before this court. For Nappen to win, he has to take his case to First St. in DC. Perhaps that is what he is hoping.

  162. grim says:

    I’d wager a guess that there are less than 50 people in all of NJ that actually own a .50 caliber rifle. If a hoodlum walked into a gun shop trying to buy one, I doubt many would even have one on display, and secondly, if they tried to pay cash, I really doubt they’d even sell them one.

    If it was used in a crime, I bet it would take all of about 15 minutes to track down the purchaser.

  163. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Nom look at the current militarization of police forces and it tells you all you need to know about the .50cal ban and the assualt rifle ban. .50cal can penertrate those APCs they love to get from drug money.

    Michael for the record I work with Drs, research scientists and college grads not that it makes them smarter just more educated. Believe it or not the kids coming out of college are bad, most of them products of the public school system. These are not basket weaving majors either.

    Where did I state FL education as a whole was better than NJ? Just a small sample set from 1st hand experience. Micheal to understand why the quality of students in well to do districts have little to do with the educators and everything to do with the parents. The high percentages of parents with degrees and immigrants from educated countries that value an education as a window to success play a significant role in student achievement in this state To really compare look at abbott vs is suburban districts for your evidence.

  164. anon (the good one) says:

    UP!

    @AppleByMaaya: $AAPL UPDATE: Icahn Has Large Position in Apple (AAPL), Sees as Extremely Undervalued
    http://t.co/bhXCreoZEe
    via @Street_Insider

  165. joyce says:

    Brian,
    I know you and I are not lawyers (and that I’m your most annoying blogger), but this is common sense. In application, the rules in NJ ban the right to carry a gun for 99.9999% of people (and this is not referring to criminals or insane people in the least).

    Brian says:
    August 13, 2013 at 1:49 pm
    Do you think they have a leg to stand on?

    http://www.ammoland.com/2013/07/evan-nappen-to-bring-justifiable-need-case-to-nj-supreme-court/#axzz2bs9wLVH8

  166. joyce says:

    Are you saying you have a problem with NASA having a swat team? Are you saying you have a problem with the Dept of Education having a swat team? Are you saying you have a problem with no-knock pre-dawn swat raides for non-violent alleged offenders? Why do you hate america?!?!!?

    Painhrtz – Disobey! says:
    August 13, 2013 at 2:15 pm
    Nom look at the current militarization of police forces and it tells you all you need to know about the .50cal ban and the assualt rifle ban. .50cal can penertrate those APCs they love to get from drug money.

  167. Libtard in Union says:

    Yes. Strengthening gun laws will do nothing to deter gun crime. I’m not sure why the ultra libs don’t get this. It’s just crazy. I think it’s the crumbs thing at work actually.

  168. Brian says:

    Yeah I get that. I just find myself cheering for these guys.

    The people that propose current gun legislation either are ignorant and dumb or smart and sinister. I can’t figure out which. Maybe the two types are working together.

    169.joyce says:
    August 13, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    Brian,
    I know you and I are not lawyers (and that I’m your most annoying blogger), but this is common sense. In application, the rules in NJ ban the right to carry a gun for 99.9999% of people (and this is not referring to criminals or insane people in the least).

  169. daddyo says:

    Spurs will do fine even without Bale, I think Top 4 finish. With Bale, they will contend for the title. Midfield is stacked with the new additions, and Soldado looks to be the striker solution they have been missing. I’m actually surprised they let Caulker go, he was a rising star, and could have played a big role if an injury hit.

    My 9 year old only plays travel soccer, in the Brig its 4 days a week (3 practice + game), and he spends the other 3 days playing in the backyard with his little brother. We have some kids on the team who play other sports, and you can see it wearing them down through the season.

  170. plume (154)

    You’ll know I’m serious when I blow that Roussillon out of your hand with a .50 caliber round. ;)

    “FWIW, the collection of comments here, from both sides, is not nearly as scary as some I see elsewhere. Except for Clot and we know he isn’t completely serious.

    BTW, Clot, I am presently enjoying some of the Rousillon you sold me.”

  171. Bystander says:

    #80 Clot,

    Exclusive private schools have nothing to do with education. It is about connections and prestige. I learned this from my bro. in law who went to ST. Albans in DC. Guy is 43 and still thinks his elitist chums from 30 years ago will give him a job as COO just because they went to school together. Guy has not held a stable job in 10 years. His 38 year old brother has same entitlement mentality. Both take fancy titles at startups that collapses a year later. Rinse and repeat.

  172. bystander (175)-

    So, so true. I’ve seen it dozens of times myself. The really sad thing is when Ivy grads cop that attitude.

  173. clotluva says:

    Re. Grim #6

    I think you hit the mark regarding diversity. My spouse is looking for an area where there is a strong presence of her ethnicity, without it being insular. She wouldn’t mind buying a place in Jackson Heights or Astoria, but I’m trying to sell her on moving to the ‘burbs. The comments on Clifton are interesting…is it too gritty these days to raise a family there?

    On a different note, does anyone have any recommendations for dining/lodging in Kauai?

  174. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Joyce I’m a traitor Peter King, Bloomberg, and Holder said so.

  175. clotluva says:

    Re 175 and 176

    My perspective is that the “good ol’ boy” networks are dying…and that goes for Ivy League pedigrees as well (our current presidential administration’s predilections notwithstanding). The global business world only cares whether you can do the job (or not), and is adapting to the consulting motto: “You are only as good as your last assignment.”

    I’ve met many Ivy League grads whose greatest accomplishment 20 years out of school is being an Ivy League grad.

  176. Libtard at home says:

    clotluva (funny name by the way).

    I can help out with all of the islands but Kauai. Been to Hawaii three or four times now. I am completely in love with the south side of the Big Island and Malasadas. Hawaiians are the bomb. Chase the rainbows yo.

  177. Libtard at home says:

    You know what? I think I might have been there for a day or two on my honeymoon. Is that where Duke’s was? Had some awesome fish there. A very unique fruity recipe if I recall. Great desserts too, but tres expensive, even for Hawaiian standards.

  178. Juice Box says:

    For Nom — Doomsday Castle

    Tonight (Aug. 13) at 10 o’clock ET National Geographic Channel

    http://www.livescience.com/38808-doomsday-castle-family-interview.html

  179. clotluva says:

    Re: 182. My name was inspired from bi and his/her admirer, biluva, from several years back. I figured showing clot a simliar token of support might prevent him from turning completely nihilist. I’d miss his unfettered insight.

    Only staying on Oahu for a couple days…never been to Hawaii before but we decided on Kauai for the bulk of our time because of the road less traveled and all of that.

  180. Too late. I went full on nihilist after the second TARP vote.

  181. Libtard at home says:

    I figured the origination of your name pretty quickly. But Biluva was obviously Bi. Are you Clot?

  182. chicagofinance says:

    This place was SICK GOOD!…but they closed it…..as with all the islands, stay north if you want it cool and south if you want to fry…..I think Kauai is barren to the west, and the east is heavily populated……I would go to a B&B….

    Gloria’s Spouting Horn Bed and Breakfast, Poipu
    Number of accommodations: 3
    Poipu, on Kauai’s south shore, has superb beaches. But if you didn’t know better, you might think it offered nothing more in the way of accommodations than a phalanx of gargantuan hotel and condo complexes. Enter Gloria’s Spouting Horn. A split-level cedar-and-glass structure with a Polynesian longhouse-style roof, it is hidden in plain sight—on a mostly residential block, fronting a rocky cove and down the road from its namesake lava tube. After Hurricane Iniki wiped out the original inn in 1992, owners Gloria and Bob Merkle rebuilt it, making sure no two (of the three) guest rooms shared a common wall and giving each a private bath, a balcony, and unimpeded views of the Pacific. The furnishings, comfortable and unpretentious, wouldn’t look out of place in any of the neighboring private homes, except perhaps for those in the Love Nest, with its bed canopy of tangled willow branches. Outside, a small lap pool perches just above tidal pools. Feeling especially energetic? Snorkel amid sea turtles, monk seals, and small octopuses, or walk the half-mile to the 100-acre Allerton Garden, site of Queen Emma’s nineteenth-century summer cottage and now part of the National Tropical Botanical Garden (808-742-6995; ; doubles, $325, with a three-night minimum; beach; housekeeping; nature; room service; swimming; view).

    clotluva says:
    August 13, 2013 at 3:27 pm
    On a different note, does anyone have any recommendations for dining/lodging in Kauai?

  183. joyce says:

    Not trying to nitpick. Maybe it is dying, but the corporate/govt crony network in all industries is doing nothing but picking up steam.

    clotluva says:
    August 13, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    My perspective is that the “good ol’ boy” networks are dying…

  184. clotluva says:

    Re. 186

    I don’t know about being full on nihilist just yet. Larry Summers could be the next Chair of the Fed. My money is on the odds that his actions could further move your needle.

  185. Ben says:

    Michael,

    you are sadly mistaken. As a high school teacher, I would challenge you to explain why every foreign exchange student we get from Europe into the high school is advanced 2 years ahead of our students. I had a student come from China who was also 2 years ahead. While our students are in Trig, their students are in Calc 2. While our students are in Physics, their students are in their 3rd year of Physics.

    17- correction- we have the best education system in the COUNTRY. Sorry, it boils my blood when I hear people say our education system is failing. If this state’s education system is failing, than where do I go for an education system that is successful? Alabama, Mississippi, or better yet, the shit hole of state fl? Have some pride in Jersey and it’s top education system. Don’t bash our state because some fat ass used it to gain political power. It’s obvious everyone in this state values education, hence, why it’s so easy to gain political power by saying the education system is failing and you have the answer to fix it. Everyone jumps on board, ESP when you say you will improve it while lowering taxes. Challenge is, we have flat lined in test scores because it’s almost impossible to raise the scores any higher than it is. Do you really think it was more challenging 20 years ago? Are you serious? You think it’s watered down? I’ll put up a 6th grader from today against a 6th grader from 1979, and watch this student put the 1979 student into the ground. The demands on student don’t get watered down, they get tougher and tougher every year.

  186. Michael says:

    192- first, you do realize we have different levels here in the u.s. ? Just saying a kid is Chinese and two levels ahead means nothing? The same thing happens here in the u.s., not every kid is on the same level. But hey, you already knew this, you are a teacher. Second, you do realize foreign exchange students are not your avg student. They are the best and brightest. I’m sure when we send some of our smartest students abroad, they are also saying the same thing you said about foreign exchange students to their citizens. You think students from the bottom go to another country to learn? Third, do you realize how much Asians cheat? Go google china and cheating and you will see that it’s an epidemic. A town rioted when the Chinese govt stepped in to stop cheating on the national exam, explaining that their kids were now at an unfair advantage because everyone else was cheating. You should know never to let these students sit next to each other and have a constant watch on what they are doing.

    Off topic, why are you a teacher if you don’t believe in it. Even if you don’t agree, you shouldn’t bash the education system. All you are doing is making it worst. You should be fighting to improve it. Do you teach in a top school, avg school, or Abbott district?

  187. Michael says:

    147-anon moose- I’m saying that this country already tried the free market with no regulations. We are still paying for it and my kids will be paying for it. Go look at china and their pollution epidemic. Sorry, I value clean water and clean air over a business making an extra dollar at the environment’s expense. I need a puke bag every time I hear some nut talking about getting rid of the EPA.

    Fracking is terrible under regulations, what do you think will happen with no regulations. It will be the Wild West. Sorry, regulations are not always bad. They truly sometimes protect you and I from all out greed. But keep chasing and worshipping that dollar bill.

  188. I wish I could set my tap water on fire.

  189. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Clot move to Cleveland I here it does that there.

  190. Michael says:

    195-scrapple- lol…because you know you would be getting a big check to shut up and move somewhere else

  191. Ragnar says:

    On what measures do NJ students score the best in the country? NJ schools rarely come on top of the various national rankings I’ve seen.

    I think there’s huge room for improvement in teaching methods in the US. Textbooks are surprisingly bad, surprising until you realize that government is the leading shopper. The whole classroom model is getting outdated.

    Here’s an idea. My opinion is that the top teachers should be creating the lectures, available for national distribution via modern techniques. Maybe 50% of class time should be spent on that. Perhaps watching these lectures/material should be “homework”. The classroom teacher time should focus on follow-up Q&A and interactive work with individual students, evaluating which ones aren’t learning as well and giving supplementary help, as well as monitored testing and custom feedback on the test. The labor intensive stuff. This is simple division of labor. You do it this way for the same reason every town doesn’t have their own set of comedians. There are only a few great talents like Seinfield, Honey Boo Boo, Bill Cosby – so they have national broadcast shows. Instead, the public school system is like giving every class their own Seinfeld impersonator – some of them really bad, very few as good as the best.

    This is one thing wrong out of thousands of things. But the main problem is that education customers are divorced from 98% of the decision making process. They aren’t deciding what to buy. Instead, the government dominates the industry, with all the wrong incentive structures for providing a good product. In free markets, getting a good service shouldn’t depend very heavily on the motivation of the service provider.

    Also, the US hasn’t tried free markets yet.

  192. Libtard at home says:

    Gator and my low budget honeymoon site. Absolutely kicked butt.
    http://www.southpointbth.com

    We also stayed a while at the Princeville Resort on Kauia on points.

  193. Ben says:

    first, you do realize we have different levels here in the u.s. ? Just saying a kid is Chinese and two levels ahead means nothing

    No shit Sherlock! I teach in one of the top districts in the state. When I say a 2 years ahead, I mean 2 years ahead of some of the best students in the state.

  194. Ben says:

    Off topic, why are you a teacher if you don’t believe in it. Even if you don’t agree, you shouldn’t bash the education system. All you are doing is making it worst. You should be fighting to improve it. Do you teach in a top school, avg school, or Abbott district?

    You really are a piece of work. You love to draw all of these unsupported conclusions based on God knows what. Here’s some insight for you.

    1. You don’t need to repeat the union talking points to believe in teaching.
    2. You don’t need to claim the educational system is better performing than it actually is to believe in teaching.
    3. The only way for me to improve the educational system is for me to do a good job in my classroom.

    You have all these opinions on education but you do not have a clue as to what you are talking about it and you probably never will unless you stepped foot into a classroom. For your information, I teach AP Physics a very high achieving public school. I’d be willing to wager that in my second year of teaching particular this class, my students’ performance exceeds that of 100% of all the other teachers in my subject (yes even the magnet schools). So you are in no position to tell me how education is or how it should be. You are way out of your league.

  195. Libtard at home says:

    Ben,

    Can I begin demonizing you now?

  196. Michael says:

    200- lol I already have you figured out. You are one of those teachers that think you are the best. Instead of helping out, you just point a finger and say I could do this better. It’s obvious you carry yourself as an elitist and I don’t know what you are doing being a teacher. I’m sitting here trying to praise our education system and you are sitting here on a daily basis bashing your own field. Why are you so anti-American and so anti-education. No great positive thinking teacher would put down your own field. Do you really think every kid is going to be the next Einstein if they had a teacher “like your great self”. We don’t need more teachers with your pompous attitude, who belittle education and put down other teachers and their students.

    You do realize china has over 1 billion people. You are telling me that the avg Chinese student is better than the u.s? Only the rich get educated there. Of course it’s easy to jump two years ahead, when the class is full of nerds. No avg students to hold back the Einsteins. We would love to have a class structure here in the u.s. with only 5 -10 students being challenged by their teachers and peers, but we don’t have the budgets or classroom space for this type of environment. In the u.s. we educate every single student and count every single student in our test data. How many countries do that? I don’t even want to defend education or teachers, if most are going to have your pompous attitude. If you are so great, go help the Abbott districts instead of promoting china as superior to the U.S. The Abbott districts need great teachers not the top schools in nj. Got that Sherlock?

  197. joyce says:

    The hack also revealed evidence that Team Themis was developing a “persona management” system — a program, developed at the specific request of the United States Air Force, that allowed one user to control multiple online identities (“sock puppets”) for commenting in social media spaces, thus giving the appearance of grass roots support. The contract was eventually awarded to another private intelligence firm.

    This may sound like nothing so much as a “Matrix”-like fantasy, but it is distinctly real, and resembles in some ways the employment of “Psyops” (psychological operations), which as most students of recent American history know, have been part of the nation’s military strategy for decades. The military’s “Unconventional Warfare Training Manual” defines Psyops as “planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups, and individuals.” In other words, it is sometimes more effective to deceive a population into a false reality than it is to impose its will with force or conventional weapons. Of course this could also apply to one’s own population if you chose to view it as an “enemy” whose “motives, reasoning, and behavior” needed to be controlled.

    Psyops need not be conducted by nation states; they can be undertaken by anyone with the capabilities and the incentive to conduct them, and in the case of private intelligence contractors, there are both incentives (billions of dollars in contracts) and capabilities.

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/14/the-real-war-on-reality/?_r=1

  198. Michael says:

    198-Ragner- nj is near the top in scores across the board. I don’t know why it’s so hard to believe. Do you really believe your child would get a better education in North Carolina? The northeast is the tops, period. Massachusetts, conn, nj, Maryland, and ny blow the other parts of the country out the door. Why do you think there is so much money here? I don’t mean to be mean but the level of ignorance with some of you is mind blowing. You really think you could get a better education somewhere else, than go there. You can also get a house for 100,000 and pay low taxes. Northern nj is one of the most prestigious places in the world. You think education is going to be bad here? Ignorance is bliss.

  199. Michael says:

    Only places that bring down nj test scores are Abbott districts. Obviously, we haven’t figured out how to teach gang bangers yet, but it doesn’t mean we need to give up on them. Also, your vision of a classroom is not that good. You need classrooms and face to face contact to develop socialization. Look at what happens to the majority of home schooled kids whose parents think they know better. Their kids do not know how to socialize with other children. Their view of the world is based on looking through their parents eyes. They lack focus on new ideas that are different. They only know what the same teacher has taught them. Education is about opening minds, not closing them. A few good teachers teaching the nation is bad for this reason.

  200. Libtard at home says:

    “Northern nj is one of the most prestigious places in the world.”
    OMG

  201. Michael says:

    Ben- I described you as pompous before I even knew you taught in a top district, teaching ap physics. Now, I’m positive about my assessment. Like I said, go help the Abbott districts, but rather teach the kids who don’t need a great teacher. They teach themselves, they only need to be introduced to material and challenged on diff ways of thinking. Basically, what a college professor does. Go teacher where a real teacher is needed, aka Abbott districts.

  202. joyce says:

    Eighth Grade Exam From 1912:
    http://www.bullittcountyhistory.com/bchistory/schoolexam1912.html

    I think this one is different than the one I posted several weeks ago.

  203. Michael says:

    207-libtard I can start in old tappan or alpine and drive west to Franklin lakes and move south through wayne, then head through Morris county to somerset county, back up through Essex and see nothing but town after town of wealthy households. You don’t call that prestigious? Show me other states where they have town after town of prestigious households. Small state, yet look at the data. I didn’t even include Hunterdon or Monmouth county. We are a very very wealthy state. Don’t kid yourself. A large concentration of millionaires in a small area. Also didnt include Hoboken, weehawkin, or parts of jersey city. Aka the Gold Coast.

  204. Michael says:

    You think other states have malls like riverside square mall or short hills mall? Come on you know better than this.

  205. Libtard at home says:

    You got me! Time to rename New Jersey the Prestigious State.

  206. Libtard at home says:

    Check out parts of Cali some time.

  207. Michael says:

    Lol you know what, you guys are right. Our state is not that wealthy, our education system is broken, and the foreign countries teach their students so much better? Why would you want to live in this state or country? It’s terrible

  208. Ben says:

    Ben- I described you as pompous before I even knew you taught in a top district, teaching ap physics. Now, I’m positive about my assessment. Like I said, go help the Abbott districts, but rather teach the kids who don’t need a great teacher. They teach themselves, they only need to be introduced to material and challenged on diff ways of thinking. Basically, what a college professor does. Go teacher where a real teacher is needed, aka Abbott districts.

    You really are clueless. I’m pompous because I teach in a top district? I’m sorry, if you fork up the 15,000 in salary difference that I would end up with in an Abbot district, I might consider it. Like I said, you are way out of your league and have no basis for your opinions.

    1. Kids don’t teach themselves (sure maybe 5% of the student body is willing to)
    2. Some kids don’t want to be taught, especially in the places you are telling me to go.
    3. Stop talking about education because its clear you have no idea how what the profession entails.

    Methinks you’ve been watching one too many TED talks.

  209. BearsFan says:

    202 – chr*st, do my nightly scan and today is a long one. Michael, your obviously very opinionated, so your in the right place, but maybe ease into it a little bit? Your comment about Ben seems a little out of line too.

    I know there is a big soccer contingent here, and that’s fine, but you guys really flash your insecurities/ignorance when you bash football as some barbarian sport. Really laughable. Saying the game is getting too dangerous on a college/pro level def has some truth too it, and the rule changes are a reflection of that. But we’re talking about a very small % of the overall population who play the sport at this level.

    I could go on re: above, but saying soccer will surpass football as this country’s favorite sport – makes me wonder if you have any clue at all what your talking about regarding anything else. You might want to truly understand the perfect marriage of TV/Football before repeating that anywhere else.

    FM Econ has a basic principle of “overpaid”, that is really not open to opinion, correct? That is, if someone as qualified is willing to do the job for less, then your overpaid. Period. I think I’ve heard stories of 100 applicants for every open teacher position in NJ, so I find it hard to think that if the union dissolved we would be paying more for said services in the short term. I am the husband of a guidance counselor too. So they are they overpaid? Sure. Can that be said about a lot of industries…sure. Is the benefit package the reason there is a such a large # of applicants, sure. Does that make me anti-teacher…hell no. They do a very important job. But the economics of the situation are what they are. Calling Ben out like Good Will Hunting – not cool me thinks.

  210. Ben says:

    You do realize china has over 1 billion people. You are telling me that the avg Chinese student is better than the u.s? Only the rich get educated there. Of course it’s easy to jump two years ahead, when the class is full of nerds. No avg students to hold back the Einsteins. We would love to have a class structure here in the u.s. with only 5 -10 students being challenged by their teachers and peers, but we don’t have the budgets or classroom space for this type of environment. In the u.s. we educate every single student and count every single student in our test data. How many countries do that? I don’t even want to defend education or teachers, if most are going to have your pompous attitude. If you are so great, go help the Abbott districts instead of promoting china as superior to the U.S. The Abbott districts need great teachers not the top schools in nj. Got that Sherlock?

    Once again jerk off, quit drawing unsubstantiated conclusions of what I think and what I don’t. You love to try to put words into people’s mouths then argue them. You are arguing with yourself.

  211. Ben says:

    Libtard

    201, I welcome it. I’ve already been demonized as a teacher because I don’t teach in Camden today.

  212. Michael says:

    I have traveled the pacific coast highway from Seattle to San Diego. Yes parts of Cali, small parts of Texas, and small parts of Florida have prestigious areas, but nothing like jersey. Sf to sd is really wealthy but it’s really not on the same level as jersey. It’s mostly wealthy on the coasts. Hollywood hills, Beverly Hills section, Bellair, all the way to the coast by Malibu and Santa Barbara is insane. Then south by Newport beach and Laguna beach is incredible. Then head to La Jolla in sd. It is prob tops on that coast. Problem is the majority of the population is not wealthy. It’s just concentrated in a few areas. The other areas (away from coast) make parts of Paterson look nice.

  213. Michael says:

    216-bears fan- you are taking the same stance baseball fans had about football in the 60 and 70’s. Don’t hate the messenger but soccer will eventually overtake football. You are living in the peak of football as we speak.

  214. BearsFan says:

    219 – ok michael, i’ll bite. do explain. I’ll get out of your way.

  215. Ben says:

    Calling Ben out like Good Will Hunting – not cool me thinks.

    Lol, I just scrolled back looking for Michael asking me if I find it “hahhhhhrd to hide the fact that I’m gay”.

  216. Michael says:

    Ben- just saying if you are such a great teacher, why not go where you are needed. I have seen you bash Abbott districts before on this blog, and wonder why you don’t go and help? Scared of actually having to teach kids that are a major challenge? I just don’t agree with your bashing of Abbott districts when you are teaching kids in an optimum setting. Up for the challenge? Be the change!!

  217. Michael says:

    219- bearsfan- I will explain.
    1. The Hispanic population is exploding and they all love soccer.
    2. The most played sports at the youth level, for both girls and boys, is soccer.
    3. The big hits, which is what people love, will soon be gone. I wouldn’t even doubt if the qb will not allowed to be hit in 10 years. Lawsuits are coming and will change football. Most parents seeing this, will not feed the youth programs.
    4. The premier league is now on a prime time channel. It’s only a matter of time before the lure of the u.s. market starts to attract the major business players in soccer.
    5. When did you ever see anything soccer related on espn ten years ago? Now European soccer stars are becoming household names here.
    6. New generation parents, having played soccer unlike previous American generation parents, are pushing their kids towards soccer. The old generation would laugh at the thought of their child not playing football or baseball.

    It’s not going to happen soon, but in 20 years soccer will prob take over football as most watched sport in the u.s.

  218. Ben says:

    Ben- just saying if you are such a great teacher, why not go where you are needed. I have seen you bash Abbott districts before on this blog, and wonder why you don’t go and help? Scared of actually having to teach kids that are a major challenge? I just don’t agree with your bashing of Abbott districts when you are teaching kids in an optimum setting. Up for the challenge? Be the change!!

    Because I have a wife and kid to support you dolt. You sound like a 22 year old fresh out of college with no clue how the real world works. Working in an abbot district as a teacher is sure way to ensure that you are poor in a state that you claim is so damn rich.

    But while your at it, why don’t you go teach there if you think its so noble? I swear, go substitute in Newark for a week. I’d even offer you an extra $200 just to see you do it. You wouldn’t last 5 days.

  219. joyce says:

    Ben,
    I wasn’t thinking fresh out of college; my first thought sorry to say was recently laid off (or similar)… I mean, jeez, how many posts today… 40 something maybe?

  220. Michael says:

    225-Ben- You are right, I’m acting like a child. I was caught in the heat of the moment. I felt like I was being attacked and responded in an inappropriate way. I’m a passionate individual and it sometimes causes me to take things overboard. I’m really a good hearted person and understand why you don’t teach in an Abbott district. I respect that you are an educator and applaud that you have chose to teach our children. You are right, I would not want to substitute in a place like Newark, and understand why you would not want to teach there. I’m sorry for the disrespect, I’m not proud of it. I truly believe we have a great education system and although it has its flaws, I believe it’s still one of the best because of people like you. Once again, sorry for the disrespect and for changing a debate into a fight.

  221. Michael says:

    226-Joyce, it’s the summer and people do use their vacation time this time of year. I just had a baby girl, and you shouldn’t jump to conclusions. But good guess.

  222. BearsFan says:

    Michael, your conflating participation with popularity. Bowling is the most participated in sport in america I believe. It’s been on TV for 30 years+ easy. I can say the same thing about bowling re: some of your supposed points above.

    Parents put their kids in soccer at young ages because the sport is perceived safe for kids, it’s easy to play (no hands), and very accessible/easy for parents. My 5 year old plays, the league is mobbed with kids. I get it. Now let’s discuss the massive reality your selectively ignoring.

    1) – The sport is tough to watch on TV. Baseball’s slight fallback had a lot to do with this too. Tennis. etc. There is little scoring. This is a major disadvantage when it comes to the most important factor that will decide if your dream becomes a reality…TV.
    1a) game never stops == no commercials == good luck pal.
    1b) You can’t use your hands. Your worried about the NFL not letting QBs get hit on the head and u think that is why people watch? lol, you obviously never played the game competitively or don’t work in an office.
    2) Tradition. U can eliminate pro football from the planet and college would still dominate. Collegiate ties and the bonds these form are unbreakable and lifelong, and like it or not, the school’s football team is the glue to the whole experience. Go to Michigan/Ohio or Alabama/Auburn and repeat your claims. People will laugh at you.
    3) Notre Dame has a contract with NBC. The thought of a university having a national contract with a TV network for a soccer program is so far out there….I don’t have the words. It’s so not in our lifetime.
    4) Baseball’s fall off – and I’ll open the door for you to pivot on this – wasn’t so much it falling as much as football rose as the television became a commodity in every household. The strike in the early 90’s turned some people off, but revenues have returned and stabilized. Football just blew by it though in overall popularity, but MLB salaries are very strong.
    5) here’s the dagger – fantasy football. I am a huge fantasy player, I actually took a job at a start-up in the industry 6 years ago that didn’t work out. But the NFL had this right under their nose for years and never embraced it for fear of it being correlated to gambling maybe, i don’t know. But those days are over. Now, they can put a west coast game at 11pm EST and people on the east coast who are just casual fans will stay up and watch just because they have one player in the game and want to see what he does. Before you start smiling or dismissing this last point, turn on NFL network, or any NFL broadcast and watch who the broadcast is catered towards.

    For this reason, soccer can never compete. Ever. Sorry.

  223. BearsFan says:

    227 – a sincere congrats on the birth of your daughter.

  224. Libtard at home says:

    Fantasy football does rule and is most likely responsible for the NFLs recent rise to sport utopia. Additionally, the short season, the limited number of games, the scarcity of tickets all adds to their stronghold. I agree that soccer is gaining in popularity and I see this as a good thing, but it has a lot more than 20 years to go before it even cracks the top 4 in sports revenue and popularity. Sh1t, the Redbulls were in first place last week with a very exciting Henry on the field and they still can’t sell out without lowering the tickets to $10 a head. They don’t even have an english speaking radio broadcast of their games.

  225. Michael says:

    Bearsfan- Well said and you may be right. Let me throw some wrenches into your argument.

    1. You only think soccer is boring because you never played it. Biased opinion. I know plenty of people that think football is boring to watch. Why do you think football hasn’t caught on in other countries? For the same reason you think soccer is boring, people think football is boring. You would be surprised at the amount of strategy involved in soccer. It’s not just kicking the ball and chasing it. It’s also super physical. On t.v it might not seem physical, but let me tell you, when a 200lb physical beast runs you over, it hurts like hell, ESP with no pads.
    2. You don’t think there is fantasy soccer? It’s even better than fantasy football because so many leagues. Top it off, you have a champions league. Imagine if the u.s. could participate in that. You want to talk about rivalries?
    3. If it’s the most popular sport in the world, how long do you think the u.s. can remain isolated from this? My guess not much longer.
    4. Baseball is dead. Almost no little league teams left. 30 years ago, every town was filled with little league teams, not anymore. They play lacrosse or soccer.
    5. College football will always be here but that doesn’t mean it can prevent the nfl from being overtaken by soccer. Like I said this is not happening anytime soon, but it will in time.

    My wife is going to kill me. My posts are done for the night. Goodnight all!

  226. Ben says:

    Wow, total 180. Wasn’t expecting that. I’m sorry for the hostility as well.

  227. joyce says:

    Somebody is bipolar…

  228. Brian says:

    Mikey:

    Plenty of Hispanics love baseball chief.

    Also, second in terms of television ratings behind American football in the US is….nascar

  229. Screw debate, Michael. I come here to see goddam fights.

    “Once again, sorry for the disrespect and for changing a debate into a fight.”

  230. I’ll take Michael seriously when he sends his kid to Camden HS.

  231. bears (228)-

    No. The new paradigm is that your student loan balance is the tie that binds.

    Non-dischargeable in BK, baby!

    “Collegiate ties and the bonds these form are unbreakable and lifelong, and like it or not, the school’s football team is the glue to the whole experience.”

  232. michael (231)-

    The US is in a Champions League: CONCACAF. Our teams are routinely gutted in these games.

  233. chicagofinance says:

    The blog has gone insane…..it is as if Donald Duck has returned from the grave…..

  234. Ragnar says:

    Ben,
    I’m glad to hear you are a good AP physics teacher, and that at least within the system we have, you are able to make better money and teach students likely to benefit from it. My argument is that in a freer market for education, you should be gaining market share, and weaker teachers loosing market share. Talent and effort benefits from more freedom, so you can imagine who opposes it.

  235. This is the next %anchor%~ freezing like it!

  236. You can certainly see your enthusiasm in the work you write. The arena hopes for even more passionate writers such as you who aren’t afraid to mention how they believe. Always follow your heart.

  237. mnbxavpa says:

    [url=http://www.grcj62hq52a1f353577ekbq9fk61p6n6s.com/]mnbxavpa[/url]
    mnbxavpa http://www.grcj62hq52a1f353577ekbq9fk61p6n6s.com/
    mnbxavpa

  238. jjbraxki says:

    jjbraxki
    jjbraxki http://www.g0bb7y346wh89v48a6667nqfq62i7cirs.com/
    [url=http://www.g0bb7y346wh89v48a6667nqfq62i7cirs.com/]jjbraxki[/url]

Comments are closed.