From the Star Ledger:
N.J. home building permits soar to nearly 30-year high
Homebuilders in New Jersey received more permits in June than they had in nearly 30 years, new data shows.
Roughly 4,800 permits were authorized in New Jersey last month, the U.S. Census Bureau reported, an increase of 12 percent from May. Nearly 80 percent of the permits obtained in June were for multifamily projects, the data shows.
Patrick O’Keefe, director of economic research at CohnReznick, said the 4,792 units authorized in June represent the largest number of permits obtained since mid-1988. The 3,776 multifamily units approved in June was the highest level of any month from 1980 forward, he said.
“It was the third consecutive month in which multifamily authorizations reached a historic peak,” O’Keefe said in a memo.
More than 1,000 single-family permits were obtained in June, the Census data shows, a jump of roughly 29 percent over May. June was only the fifth month since the beginning of 2008 that more than 1,000 single-family construction permits were issued, O’Keefe said.
NJEA thinks that the gas tax should be increased, not to rebuild NJ’s crumbling infrastructure, but to pay their pensions.
The grubby money grab continues.
Raise the gas tax to fund pensions? The NJEA lets the cat out of the bag | Mulshine
If we are to believe the author, the union is actually suggesting that the revenue from a gas tax should go not to repair our roads, with their tire-swallowing potholes, or to help keep down NJ Transit fares, which were just raised once again.
They don’t want the revenue to go to people here in the state who desperately need the services.
They want it to go to people who may have retired to North Carolina and Florida.
I couldn’t believe Wollmer would make such a statement.
Surely he was misquoted.
But no, I then read a letter to the editor of this paper replying to my column in which Wollmer sent said the same thing (italics mine):
“Mulshine asked where New Jersey should look to find the revenues to fully fund the state’s pension system, which – thanks to two decades of under-funding by a succession of governors and legislatures – is now facing collapse. I mentioned several, including the so-called “millionaire’s tax”; the corporate excise tax; the gas tax; and putting an end to Gov. Christie’s multi-billion dollar program of corporate tax credits that have produced almost no jobs.”
No doubt about it. The union is proposing to tax motorists to pay retirees.
From the Record:
Mortgage co. halves Passaic woman’s balance
Loretta Hill of Passaic, a state health care worker, was facing foreclosure last year after she temporarily lost disability benefits and fell behind on her mortgage payments.
Her house was financially “underwater,” worth not much more than half of the $403,000 she owed.
But in what may seem an unlikely turn of events, her Atlanta-based mortgage servicer, Ocwen Financial, came to her rescue by slashing the amount she owed almost in half and by cutting her interest rate from 8.8 percent to less than 3.4 percent.
Under a loan modification agreement, the principal is being reduced by $184,840 over three years. The new balance will be $218,500, and the monthly payment, which was more than $3,300, including interest, taxes and insurance, is now about $1,724, all included. The only catch is that under the Shared Appreciation Program, when she eventually sells the house, the mortgage company gets 25 percent of the appreciation in value and Hill gets 75 percent.
It’s a fair deal, said Hill, 62, in an interview last week at her home on Hughes Street. “I am very grateful to Ocwen,” said Hill, who injured her shoulder and knee on the job in 2010. “I was scared,” she said. “I thought we were going to be homeless.” Over the past 10 years, Hill has raised five nieces and nephews in her Passaic home, four of whom still reside there, while one is away at college in Florida.
…
In response to The Record’s questions, Ocwen, one of the top loan servicers in the state, said in an email that it has modified 2,733 loans in New Jersey through its SAM program since 2011. It has completed more than 17,400 loan modifications in New Jersey since 2009, including those that do not involve principal reductions.
Case Shiller due out this morning, forecast is 5.6%, up from last month’s 4.9%.
No statistics will matter once the next great collapse is underway.
Cool, so I can steal part of your salary and you won’t go after me because you consider that money grabbing. As the taxpayers of NJ elected the officials who withheld the funds, they–IE you–are responsible for paying that money.
“NJEA thinks that the gas tax should be increased, not to rebuild NJ’s crumbling infrastructure, but to pay their pensions.
The grubby money grab continues.”
@Salon: Huckabee defends Holocaust remark: “I have stood at that oven door. I know exactly what it looks like.”
@Salon: From decrying “Uncle Sugar” to defending “legitimate rape”: Here’s why need to stop listening to Mike Huckabee
Michael, people have every right to be angry about property taxes. Especially when cities like Jersey City are subsidized by state school funding they do not deserve.
Why hasn’t Jersey City revaluated properties in town yet? When was the last time it was done in Jersey City? 30 Years ago? Why do I pay the same property tax bill the Mayor of Jersey City does….when I live an hour away from NYC in Northwest NJ…and own a property worth 1/4 the value?…..With less services?
Human beings cannot be trusted to spend other people’s money wisely, efficiently and Justly. The moral thing to do is let people keep more of their hard earned money. No more legalized theft (taxation).
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2015/07/star-ledger_columnist_puts_spotlight_on_fulops_tax.html
Wait until she gets the tax bill on the balance she was not required to pay.
The crying will continue.
grim says:
July 28, 2015 at 6:22 am
From the Record:
Mortgage co. halves Passaic woman’s balance
Loretta Hill of Passaic, a state health care worker, was facing foreclosure last year after she temporarily lost disability benefits and fell behind on her mortgage payments.
Here’s what this game comes down to. Politicians run for office, promising to deliver law and order, safe and clean streets, and good schools. Then they get elected, and instead of paying for the cops, garbagemen, teachers and firefighters they only just 10 minutes ago promised voters, they intercept taxpayer money allocated for those workers and blow it on other stuff. It’s the governmental equivalent of stealing from your kids’ college fund to buy lap dances. In Rhode Island, some cities have underfunded pensions for decades. In certain years zero required dollars were contributed to the municipal pension fund. “We’d be fine if they had made all of their contributions,” says Stephen T. Day, retired president of the Providence firefighters union. “Instead, after they took all that money, they’re saying we’re broke. Are you f*cking kidding me?”
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-the-pension-funds-20130926#ixzz3hBf9b3xk
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
I believe my attorney review is coming to a close. Be careful what you wish for…. I know, I know.
Keep the moving trucks coming. Wait till ten years from now, you will be crying about the congestion and poor planning of their rapid expansion. Wait till all the incoming people drive up the cost (taxes) in the area when they drive up the demand on services.
Listen, every state has some type of area that people find desirable. Triangle Park is one small area in a big state. That area might be appealing, but the rest of the state is tobacco fields. Nj is pretty unique in how far the wealthy areas spread. Town by town is extremely rare. Most places in the u.s. have just a desirable neighborhood, or maybe even a whole town that is desirable, but it’s rare to see town after town of extremely desirable wealthy towns like you see in the nyc metro area. Cali is the only other place that is like this. You won’t find this anywhere else.
Marilyn says:
July 28, 2015 at 4:02 am
117 yup Research Triangle Park brings all the morons there. Over 80,000 with PHD’s. Yup its so bad in other States that’s why the inventory in some areas such as Raleigh, is so booming houses go under contract in less than a week. People are all dumb and stupid and NJ is so much better all the moving trucks on I 95 are rolling in here.
11- Show me another place where you can go on an hour or two drive, and not once step into a poor town. (starting in alpine, go through bergen, cross over through wayne to morris county, then hunterdon, then back through somerset, and back in essex) Not even counting the other counties with wealth like Monmouth, or the coast in general. Where else, besides cali, can you do this?
Exactly. This is pretty crazy when you think about it. Robbed the workers pension funds and then use that as a reason to get rid of it. Talk about the perfect theft.
Essex says:
July 28, 2015 at 8:08 am
Here’s what this game comes down to. Politicians run for office, promising to deliver law and order, safe and clean streets, and good schools. Then they get elected, and instead of paying for the cops, garbagemen, teachers and firefighters they only just 10 minutes ago promised voters, they intercept taxpayer money allocated for those workers and blow it on other stuff. It’s the governmental equivalent of stealing from your kids’ college fund to buy lap dances. In Rhode Island, some cities have underfunded pensions for decades. In certain years zero required dollars were contributed to the municipal pension fund. “We’d be fine if they had made all of their contributions,” says Stephen T. Day, retired president of the Providence firefighters union. “Instead, after they took all that money, they’re saying we’re broke. Are you f*cking kidding me?”
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-the-pension-funds-20130926#ixzz3hBf9b3xk
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
Yup, it’s pretty sad that people are rallying around robbing these workers. The hypocrisy. They complain that the pensions are robbery, yet they are advocating for robbing someone by ignoring a contract. I guess as long as they are not getting robbed, they have no problem robbing someone else.
Ottoman says:
July 28, 2015 at 7:50 am
Cool, so I can steal part of your salary and you won’t go after me because you consider that money grabbing. As the taxpayers of NJ elected the officials who withheld the funds, they–IE you–are responsible for paying that money.
“NJEA thinks that the gas tax should be increased, not to rebuild NJ’s crumbling infrastructure, but to pay their pensions.
The grubby money grab continues.”
Get mad at the federal govt making you subsidize the south first, at least you are helping nj cities that were left for dead 4o years ago. At least the money is staying in nj. Get mad at the federal subsidization first, then get mad at the state subsidization.
D-FENS says:
July 28, 2015 at 8:01 am
Michael, people have every right to be angry about property taxes. Especially when cities like Jersey City are subsidized by state school funding they do not deserve.
Why hasn’t Jersey City revaluated properties in town yet? When was the last time it was done in Jersey City? 30 Years ago? Why do I pay the same property tax bill the Mayor of Jersey City does….when I live an hour away from NYC in Northwest NJ…and own a property worth 1/4 the value?…..With less services?
Human beings cannot be trusted to spend other people’s money wisely, efficiently and Justly. The moral thing to do is let people keep more of their hard earned money. No more legalized theft (taxation).
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2015/07/star-
Someone sedate Blumpkin.
12 – Why didn’t you drive through Sussex or Warren Counties?
12 – Have you left those counties for dead?
American Refugee, I like the sound of that. Could be the name of band.
Fleeing New Jersey, and Its Crushing Taxes, for a Better Life
He lived in New Jersey his entire life. He was born there in 1932, grew up there, and worked his entire adult life there…he took the plunge with his young bride and purchased his first and only home, for $32,000, back in 1961 in northern New Jersey. …The property taxes on the house their dad purchased for $32,000 back in 1961 had swelled, from a number so low he couldn’t remember it to a number he could not forget: $12,000 a year. That number, reduced to a monthly payment, was five times higher than his home’s original monthly mortgage payment. Indeed, if you’d told him back when he bought the house that, many years later, three years’ worth of property-tax bills added together would exceed the house’s cost, he’d have written you off as crazy. But it was true. The home my father thought he owned outright had a co-owner: the local city council and school board. And it was a co-owner with an appetite for spending. Home ownership may have had its privileges, but it became a burden he could no longer afford.
After all the math is done, and Mercedes-Benz completes its new $75 million headquarters [in GA] in 2017, it will have reduced its overhead by a whopping 20 percent a year, according to John Boyd, an adviser on corporate relocations. That news came on the heels of a series of corporate defections from the Garden State over the past few years…. In 2013, Hertz, the car-rental company, moved its headquarters — and its 550 jobs — from New Jersey to Florida. Last summer, Sealed Air Corporation (the bubble-wrap maker) announced plans to move its headquarters from New Jersey to North Carolina. Those businesses are fleeing New Jersey for the same reason so many residents are fleeing: the high cost of doing business there. Indeed, New Jersey ranked 50th, dead last, in the Tax Foundation’s 2015 State Tax Business Climate Index.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421625/states-new-jersey-south-taxes
NJ govt redistributes wealth from wealthy NJ suburbs to inner city failure camps on state welfare.
USA Federal govt redistributes wealth from wealthy NJ to poorer rural states who have more people on federal welfare.
United Nations works to redistribute wealth from wealthy USA and other Western Nations to primitive and failing countries around the world, keeping them on international welfare.
At each layer there are envious takers and corrupt redistributors.
The better way forward is to end forced redistribution of wealth, and invest in legal and cultural structures that facilitate wealth creation and opportunity.
There are a few reasons why a company would start or remain in NJ. There are many more reasons to relocate.
The reason why taxes are so high in NJ: because so far, they’ve been able to get away with it. It’s not payment for services rendered.
[19] cont
Feeling a little nostalgic today.. Booya!!!!
19. Guy inherits a home.
Does not feel comfortable covering taxes.
Cashed out and leaves.
You saying he would have stayed ?
I gotta say the more I visit here the more I roll my eyes.
8 – Bill for zero?
Cool, so I can steal part of your salary and you won’t go after me because you consider that money grabbing. As the taxpayers of NJ elected the officials who withheld the funds, they–IE you–are responsible for paying that money.
I am not responsible for politicians who made promises to unions that both sides knew full well, could never be delivered on.
You want proof that I am not responsible? I can pick up and leave the state, and nobody will send me a bill.
The years of union victories in NJ were clearly pyyric.
Again, the pension deals that were made previously, and the misallocation of funds are both criminal and unconsitutional in my book.
NJ constitution requires the public to vote on new debt. By agreeing to provide pensions, knowing full well they could never be paid, is tantamount to the accrual of new debts.
Why on earth anyone would trust the NJ government to be a custodian of a pension is beyond me.
23 / 24 – Essex
Are you reading the same story I am?
The father (the guy from 1932) was the owner of the house when he decided to sell it after his wife passed away.
He could no longer afford to live there given the changes of property taxes rising so quickly, sales tax at 7%, and the high income tax. Two of the taxes (income and sales) did not even exist when he bought the house (per the article).
Did I miss something?
For people who profess to be saavy investors you display precious little knowledge of how real economies work. You know spend money to make money. You display irrational behavior that defies logic – Eddie / Gary please keep us posted on your ascent into the abyss. Finally, you display such venom for anyone gullible enough to take a job serving the public, that if people understood the roof of all of this it would probably just amount to soar grapes. Like my wife or daughter couldn’t get their job with the local district therefore everything must burn.
Roof=root
Soar=sour.
Guy can’t count either…,Real-estate magnate Donald Trump frequently touts his wealth on the presidential campaign trail. But a new report essentially accuses him of overstating his own net worth by billions of dollars.
Bloomberg reporters Caleb Melby and Richard Rubin, citing an analysis by the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, reported Thursday that Trump is actually worth about $2.9 billion.
[23] Essex
There is no inheritance. Actually its the father (81)who purchased the house in the 30’s and owns it outright but due to his monthly property tax bill ($12k), it’s more than his pension (and his mortgage payment), so he moved.
Although he did say he worked for the state so his pension should be pretty sweet.
I roll my eyes that Essex can’t read/write.
11-
Pumpty, you are very uninformed. For you to say aside from RTP, the rest of NC is nothing but tobacco fields, is startling. Just google Asheville NC or the Outer Banks NC.
You’ve been living a very cocooned life.
Sorry I didn’t get around to my pension study yesterday. Every time I went to a different state’s website to research such items as their healthcare or the pension benefits for their state workers, I literally got sick to my stomach. What the union supporting left writes about in puff piece after puff piece, is rife with lies. I really went the wrong route. Working for the government is significantly better than working in the private sector. In my opinion, at a scale of 2 to 1. And I do okay salary wise. But no way, no how, will I be able to retire as comfortably as my garbage man or my mail carrier. No way! So what will come of the teams that I supervise. Lord knows they can barely afford to contribute to their 401Ks. Some make half of what I make. And for every one of me in my company, there are 40 of THEM. These are college educated professionals. Sure, they weren’t the honor students, but they put in their time and they work a much harder and more stressful day than any teacher does. They will retire with their social security and hope it covers their debt. Where is the left rallying for them?
As for the lies from the progressives on NJ’s pensions. I can not repeat this enough. The public workers unions were promised way more than the state could afford. And the workers contributions to their own retirement is still there. It’s just the super-sized benefits and guaranteed excessive pension payments which were offered in exchange for votes and endorsements that the state is having trouble finding. Why? Because it was simply way too much to begin with. Run the friggin’ numbers you fools!
You can’t pay a teacher 50K per year for 30 or so years(1.5 million), when they put away $125,000 at best (and I’m being extremely generous) during their 25-year career in teaching. Hell no. They can start collecting in their mid 50s with a slight hit to their monthly pension check and they still get paid until death. And they used to receive COLA adjustments too.
And the taxpayers responsible for paying for these IMPOSSIBLE benefits get NOTHING! If the market is in the toilet when I retire, I get whatever my contributions are worth. If there is inflation? Too damn bad. My unused sick days? They’re worth nothing too. If my company decides to eliminate the match (like they did during the great recession) too bad. Who is looking out for me? Can I make the public workers make up my retirement shortfall?
So stop whining about what they were promised. It would take three years of every dollar of state revenue to make these oversized pensions and health care obligations whole. Meanwhile, the reforms the unions have made have amounted to a drop in the bucket. Making them actually pay a part of their healthcare premium. Oooh. I’ve never not contributed it. Eliminating the COLA. Well that’s a decent first step, too bad the union is suing to claw it back.
Do not listen to the Otto’s and the Anon’s hear. They need the union to maintain their voting base. It is no different than Obama looking the other way over the massive fraud that has become of the Obama phone. He needs those votes. By giving them the internet, it keeps them voting blue.
1. Grim
it appears you don’t like this idea. You don’t like the fact that somebody wants to send a check to the retired workers out of state. Why should they continue to get their deal and the younger workers pay Into the pension? where is the cutoff 10 years 15 years? Who deserves to win and who deserves to lose?
Same with Social Security. Wby should a pimple face kid working in McDonalds pay into Social Security so grandpa gets a check when he’s not going to get anything in return?
Anyone with a job is “serving the public”.
I would have much higher average regard for those working in the government sector if the government sector were roughly 75% smaller, doing the things that government is supposed to do, namely protecting individual rights, maintaining law and order, national defense.
Now that most people working in the government sector are engaged in violating the rights of citizens, via confiscation, regulation, propaganda and miseducation campaigns, it’s natural that these government workers would in my eyes come to resemble the former red-coated representatives of King George III.
Anyone w1th a job is “serv1ng the publ1c”.
I would have much h1gher average regard for those work1ng 1n the government sector 1f the government sector were roughly 75% smaller, do1ng the th1ngs that government 1s supposed to do, namely protect1ng 1nd1v1dual r1ghts, ma1nta1n1ng law and order, nat1onal defense.
Now that most people work1ng 1n the government sector are engaged 1n v1olat1ng the r1ghts of c1t1zens, v1a conf1scat1on, regulat1on, propaganda and m1seducat1on campa1gns, 1t’s natural that these government workers would 1n my eyes come to resemble the former red-coated representat1ves of K1ng George 111.
Phoenix,
I’m not sure there are many (if any) people that disagree with you here.
And .to the guy who bought this house for $32,000 has he ever heard of something called a reverse mortgage? he already has a real pension. He also has a house that quadrupled in value if not more. He also has Social Security and Medicare.
all things to support him that are proposed to be eliminated. So what makes him so special compared to a younger person?
I would have much h1gher average regard for those work1ng 1n the government sector 1f the government sector were roughly 75% smaller, do1ng the th1ngs that government 1s supposed to do, namely protect1ng 1nd1v1dual r1ghts, ma1nta1n1ng law and order, nat1onal defense.
Now that most people work1ng 1n the government sector are engaged 1n v1olat1ng the r1ghts of c1t1zens, v1a conf1scat1on, regulat1on, propaganda and m1seducat1on campa1gns, 1t’s natural that these government workers would 1n my eyes come to resemble the former red-coated representat1ves of K1ng George 111.
Any0ne w1th a j0b 1s “serv1ng the publ1c”.
1 w0uld have much h1gher average regard f0r th0se w0rk1ng 1n the g0vernment sect0r 1f the g0vernment sect0r were r0ughly 75% smaller, d01ng the th1ngs that g0vernment 1s supp0sed t0 d0, namely pr0tect1ng 1nd1v1dual r1ghts, ma1nta1n1ng law and 0rder, nat10nal defense.
N0w that m0st pe0ple w0rk1ng 1n the g0vernment sect0r are engaged 1n v10lat1ng the r1ghts 0f c1t1zens, v1a c0nf1scat10n, regulat10n, pr0paganda and m1seducat10n campa1gns, 1t’s natural that these g0vernment w0rkers w0uld 1n my eyes c0me t0 resemble the f0rmer red-c0ated representat1ves 0f K1ng Ge0rge 111.
Phoenix,
I’m not sure where the cutoff is, but we can start by pushing every current and every new worker into a 401K. We can eliminate the Cadillac insurance plans they are all in and put them into HMOs like the rest of us. We can stop paying out accumulated sick days and we can make it so that you are not paid your pension if you are still working somewhere. The big issue for me, is that their benefit is guaranteed. Nobody has a guaranteed retirement, besides the public worker. Nobody!
And how about that NJ Transit?
Anyone with a job is “serving the public”.
I would have much higher average regard for those working in the government sector if the government sector were roughly 75% smaller, doing the things that government is supposed to do, namely protecting individual rights, maintaining law and order, national defense.
I was in Richmond over the weekend. Really a nice city. Good restaurant scene….plenty of hipsters. The city is actually bigger than I thought. Lots of expats from the Northeast….they looked very happy to me.
Libturd I disagree with you. I’m not for exempting current retirees. I don’t believe in “phasing” things in. imagine being the guy who misses his pension by one day. same with Social Security and Medicare. Cut 10% immediately across the board and keep it solvent with less support.
Grandfathering certain people is not a fair way to go. Not for Medicare not for Social Security and not for pensions.
D-FENS,
My wife and I had a couple of our best meals ever on a vacation in Richmond, about 15 years ago. Upscale southern food done really well.
I remember reading stories in the Daily News in 1974 about Port Authority, MTA,TBTA cops and Toll takers jacking up overtime in last 3 years to get ridiculous pensions payments for life…apparently that exact thing still occurs some 40 freaking years later….
and Lib, if you are upset about Teachers, forget cops, average at $100,000 by age 28-30 and many retire by 42 …collecting for 40+ years potentially…
[34] Libturd
I wish I could have been there for the presentation when whoever came up with this wanted to put this in place. Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode after Kramer puts forward a presentation and his Boss says, “it’s almost as if you never worked in a business before”.
You can’t pay a teacher 50K per year for 30 or so years(1.5 million), when they put away $125,000 at best (and I’m being extremely generous) during their 25-year career in teaching.
[1] grim
I vote for an income tax increase and a substantial one. Don’t touch the gas tax, that will hurt one of NJ’s few exports. Raise the income tax on millionaires and use the money to lower tolls.
The grandfathering sucks, but when my company cut their 401K match or up the amount we need to contribute to our own healthcare as a percentage of the total cost, we are not grandfathered. Why is it different for public workers? Can someone explain to me why please?
Shhh…they are going to do a stealth gasoline tax by raising the tax on the refiners/importers etc…so you will not see a line item at pump, the price will just go up..
I have a much better solution. Let’s take all workers, private and public and let them all participate in the government pension plan. Do you have an issue with this?
My uncle always used to say he beat the system. Retired around 50 from driving a bus up and down Broadway in NYC. Spent the next 28 years retired in Ireland enjoying the good life before cancer got him. Pension, Social Security when he turned 62, socialized medical care, home paid for and no property taxes. Man had few cares in the world after he retired, always had a smile, told a great story and a had great golf game even played with Tiger Woods once.
I’ll be 67 if I am lucky enough to retire and that is if they don’t tax away everything I have saved for retirement.
I could have gotten that Bus Driver Job, or NYPD or gone into Con Ed or some other manual labor blue collar job, but NOOOOO I wanted to work with computers…..
Oh well back to the grindstone.
What I find not too surprising is that plenty of southerners push the meme that the South sucks and NJ is so much better. They don’t want you all moving there.
We are getting closer to the fireworks that were always predicted to occur around 2019 in regards to these impossible pensions. I can’t wait! Get your popcorn.
#48..NYC/NYS salaries are higher, pensions greater and better funded..how?
Just tack on a 3% Income tax surcharge (like NYC income tax) and you get a lot more revenue!
[52] juice
Yep, I drove busses in college. Should have stuck with it and I could be retired on a fat pension. But nooooo, I wanted to think . . .
[54] libturd
The real fireworks occur when the dems propose public pension bailouts. I predict fist fights in the well if the House.
Fast Eddie, what technique did you use to win your bid?
How Homebuyers Win Bidding Wars Without Having the Most Cash
Flattery is a tried-and-true negotiating strategy, but homebuyers in hot markets are making a bizarre art form out of kissing up.
Usually that means a letter, to introduce the seller to the buyer’s family and wax on about what the buyer loves about the house. But buyers are stepping up their games: Recent personal entreaties have included YouTube videos and baked goods, says Andrew Vallejo, a Refin agent. “After they toured the property, they left a note for the seller on the kitchen counter about how much they loved the house,” he says of one recent couple. “The next day they came back and hand-delivered cookies to the seller and to five or six of the seller’s neighbors.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-28/how-homebuyers-win-bidding-wars-without-having-the-most-cash
At BBQ in NYS this weekend. Relatives laughing at NJ teacher salaries. Comparison of 2 relatives:
Orange County, NY: 3rd year teacher of grade school with Masters: $75,000
Suburban Essex Cty: 10th year HS Math Teacher with Masters: $60,000
Are there any part time public workers? That might be an easy way to get into the pension.
Somewhat related…in London they call their retirement plans are called pension “schemes”, we should call ours the same.
They did that in 1983 with Reagan SS Reform. They increase age and contribution 20 years before SS started getting deficits. Today that surplus is worth $2.7T. What are you going to do with the $2.7T Government owe that is earning compounded interest?
You “Cut 10% immediately across the board and keep it solvent with less support” How much do you think the Government will owe the Tax Payers say in 30 years with the surplus plus compounded interest on the $2.7T Or We just give the Government a pass on the debt?
Remember, this is 6.4% of every working taxpayers blood,sweat and tears earnings up to max SS collects ($110,000?). Most just rely on SS because they can not save the extra 10% on a 401k. So we call it a tax and Government need not pay this amount?
phoenix says:
July 28, 2015 at 10:27 am
Libturd I disagree with you. I’m not for exempting current retirees. I don’t believe in “phasing” things in. imagine being the guy who misses his pension by one day. same with Social Security and Medicare. Cut 10% immediately across the board and keep it solvent with less support.
Grandpa’s current tax situation is discussed as a reason for him to get the heck out of Dodge. What you have to add to the table is ‘what happens when he dies?’ NJ is one of only two ?? states left in this country where you get hit with both Estate and Inheritance taxes.
So how has the knowledgeable public (read: wealthier, educated, etc.) responded? By doing this – Setting up residence in a state where there isn’t any of this money grab going on. E.G., Florida.
My eldest son’s FIL still maintains a house in Jersey but now must be minimum 6 months out of state to escape NJs wrath. And NJ does track all the movements. They track cell phone calls, credit card charges, etc. It’s such a lucrative business, taxation, that is. He files seperate spousal returns. Has to. There is too much to lose being in NJ when you get older.
I am trying to convince my wife too that we have to leave this Asylum entirely before the inmates hand us our deflated balls back.
As for Pumpkin, there are many arguments of his that I tend to agree with. Especially on the eventual uptick of the housing market here. But one thing I strongly disagree with is his contention that education, prosperity, etc. comes with a high price tag, that of taxes. Sorry Pumpkin, but Massachusetts is a prime example of how things are done better. It has the number one rated public school systems in the country. The taxes are also 1/2 of NJ, based upon comparable values. There is construction going on all over. The people are happier. Only traffic is worse than ours. Much worse.
Ask me how I know.
Greece of the Caribbean.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/28/hedge-funds-puerto-rico-close-schools-fire-teachers-pay-us-back
26. It doesn’t work that way. (rolls eyes)
Didn’t Mass institute a hard cap on property tax increases? Unlike the soft leaky cap the assembly forced on Christie?
Ate some fantastic traditional southern cuisine, but believe it or not the best restaurant I ate at was a Jewish Delicatessen.
https://www.facebook.com/perlysrichmond
Ragnar says:
July 28, 2015 at 10:38 am
D-FENS,
My wife and I had a couple of our best meals ever on a vacation in Richmond, about 15 years ago. Upscale southern food done really well.
[24] Essex
“I gotta say the more I visit here the more I roll my eyes.”
Me too. But (probably) not usually for the same reasons.
The Supreme Court calls is a tax, if you find fault with their logic… that would bring all other cases into question as well.
yome says:
July 28, 2015 at 11:06 am
[65] lib
They did, decades ago. Prop.2, often called “Prop. 2 1/2” because of the allowed rate, put a hard brake on tax increases. Championed by Barbara Anderson, the Howard Jarvis of Massachusetts. It was a bitter, acrimonious war, with oppo well financed by the unions but it passed handily and set the high water mark for public sector unions in Mass. After that, they were effectively neutered.
Naturally, there ensued many mini wars with local governments and the unions imposing “make it hurt” cuts and voters tossing their azzes out. The law did allow overrides if voters approved by a supermajority. Still hated by leftists today but like SS or obamacare, once it was in, voters liked it too much.
Such was the power of this movement that for decades after, no group wanted their referendum question to be second on the Ballot. Too many “No on Prop 2” bumper stickers were still on union member/democrats cars.
Every time there is a surplus Government spends it. They call it debt or tax. But it will be gone. NJ will be penalized if there was a surplus on their books. They will get less Federal funding. They need to spent it all. How F&cked is this system?
“Cut 10% immediately across the board and keep it solvent with less support.”
My point is that little is accomplished by hosing a generation of workers.
[68] Joyce,
Slightly more nuanced than that. The Feds argued, and the court agreed, that it was within the Feds taxing authority. That said, the Admin denies its a tax even though they used tax authority to justify it.
I say If it quacks, it’s a duck.
Leftists despised Prop 2 1/2 and complained bitterly for years that it would destroy Mass.
They are still complaining.
http://www.cbpp.org/research/hidden-consequences-lessons-from-massachusetts-for-states-considering-a-property-tax-cap
What I find not too surprising is that for all their relentless complaining plenty of extreme right wingers living in NJ don’t want to move to the south because they find NJ is so much better. typical hypocrites
Comrade Nom Deplume in Mass says:
July 28, 2015 at 10:56 am
What I find not too surprising is that plenty of southerners push the meme that the South sucks and NJ is so much better. They don’t want you all moving there.
We’re talking SS, right?
Comrade Nom Deplume in Mass says:
July 28, 2015 at 11:28 am
[68] Joyce,
Slightly more nuanced than that. The Feds argued, and the court agreed, that it was within the Feds taxing authority. That said, the Admin denies its a tax even though they used tax authority to justify it.
I say If it quacks, it’s a duck.
California might be an example of the bad outcome of tax caps.
What is the hard cap on exactly? On assessed value, rates, total collected, something else, combination?
Comrade Nom Deplume in Mass says:
July 28, 2015 at 11:25 am
“Prop. 2 1/2″
74. Wot a tangled web we weave.
Why because they refuse to only spend what they have and keep borrowing?
Essex says:
July 28, 2015 at 11:35 am
California might be an example of the bad outcome of tax caps.
34 – Lib,
I would be interested in your seeing your numbers. The spread sheet and historical averages I produced came up the following:
At 25 Years, a Teacher would pay in around 720K total, accounting for salary growth(2% per year so a 2% increase in pension contribution), interest / growth at a historical 7%, and inflation at a historical 3.1%. I simplified my model by assuming the funds are not deducted from by distributions so the number only increases until death. I think the pension fund runs like that anyway, rather then like a 401K with actual specific “balances” that are taken from.
At year 25 when a teacher is both eligible for Health Care and Pension at retirement, they should be making around 80K. Their total cost to the system assuming a “retirement” age of 60 (when they can collect without penalty which is still allowable for tier 2 under the TPAF) would be around $4,000,000 dollars (also adjusted like before but without the interest obviously). That 25 year mark makes a big difference because of the health care plan. When you factor in health care costs, with its associated 6% inflation (assuming no change from current historical increases)) for 40+ years into the future, being paid out for 25+ years… that’s a big bill in future dollars.
Immediately prior to year 25, the total cost is around $831,000 for just pension payouts.
Surprisingly, the results I have show that the pension system works assuming teachers get burned out and don’t stay past 22 years. Naturally they need 10 years invested before they are eligible for any pension money, but form years 10-20 if the teacher retires and then sits until age 60 to collect, those teachers pay more into the system then they actually collect and the system floats.
The basic idea is they make so little this early in their career (so a low distribution in retirement) while having 30+ years of interest on the pension accounts until they retire.
But… one 25+ year teacher requires on average 30 burned out teachers (depending on the numbers used) to balance out the system. And generally speaking, if you make it ten years and have tenure, whats another 15 to get free health care?
The hard part is figuring out what numbers to use. Do I assume they die at 85? Or 100? Do the collect at 60? Or defer to 65? Or “retire” early and take a hit on payout but collect money for many more years. The possibilities are painful.
We got another Monorail Folks!
4 Billion to be spent on Laguardia upgrades, including Monorail!
Monorail to run to to Citi Field and the 7 train and LIRR connection.
A cab to downtown would be faster.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/nyregion/la-guardia-airport-to-be-rebuilt-by-2021-cuomo-and-biden-say.html?_r=0
Unless historic structural changes are made… current/future workers are being hosed at the expense of retired workers. How much does that accomplish?
Essex says:
July 28, 2015 at 11:28 am
My point is that little is accomplished by hosing a generation of workers.
talking about his constituency
@realDonaldTrump: After all is said and done, more is said than done. — Aesop
What’s the buzz with a $16T. Most of this is domestic debt that the Government can call “Tax”? The biggest holder is SS then Medicare. We really owe the Foreign Bond holders about less than $4T. Same as Japan and other Countries holding more than 200% of mostly Domestic Debt. What $16T Debt?
joyce says:
July 28, 2015 at 11:21 am
The Supreme Court calls is a tax, if you find fault with their logic… that would bring all other cases into question as well.
26 If it did go to a vote it might win, doesn’t New Jersey have a high ratio of government employees to private sector in this state?
yome,
Stop being stupid. If you don’t know the difference between taxes (current) and debt (previous), you’re hopeless.
You guys complain about govt workers because you look down on them. Why do none of you have a problem with executive pay that is clearly out of control? We are talking about a 10 million dollar bonus going to a ceo who has run a company into the ground and is being let go. You have no problem with this, but you have a problem with giving a worker pension that is not even six figures. Face it, you guys hate govt workers. You give no respect to teachers. It’s pretty pathetic.
“It is an obscenity that we stigmatize so many young americans with a criminal record for smoking marijuana, but not one major Wall Street executive has been prosecuted for causing the near collapse of our entire economy.” Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-vt)
While constitutionally prohibited from seeking a third term in the Oval Office, the president used a speech in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, on Tuesday to express confidence that if he appeared on U.S. ballots again, he would prevail.
“I actually think I’m a pretty good president,” Obama said in his address to the African Union in Ethiopia. “I believe if I ran again, I could win. But I can’t.”
What govt workers are retiring in their 40’s? Please show me the list of workers that are retiring in their 40’s? That’s total bs. No way you can retire in your 40’s and start collecting. Except for cops, no govt workers can retire in their 50’s. So why are you painting the picture that every govt worker retires in their 40’s and starts collecting six figure pensions in their 40’s. That’s a lot of bs in these statements.
The pure immodesty is so repulsive……who says stuff like this? I agree that he might very well win another election, but you can’t speak in public in this manner.
ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia — President Obama says he’s convinced he could win a third term — but looks forward to being a private citizen.
“Obama used his own history of electoral success to criticize African leaders who overstay their welcomes by refusing to leave office after their terms expire.
In his speech Tuesday at the African Union headquarters, he conceded unfamiliarity with that concept because as a second-term president, he’s constitutionally barred from running again. “I actually think I’m a pretty good president,” Obama said. “I think if I ran, I could win. But I can’t!” “
Except for cops,
The Great Pumpkin says:
July 28, 2015 at 11:57 am
What govt workers are retiring in their 40′s? Please show me the list of workers that are retiring in their 40′s? That’s total bs. No way you can retire in your 40′s and start collecting. Except for cops, no govt workers can retire in their 50′s. So why are you painting the picture that every govt worker retires in their 40′s and starts collecting six figure pensions in their 40′s. That’s a lot of bs in these statements.
re-read what he wrote, if you’re capable of comprehending after a 2nd read
The Great Pumpkin says:
July 28, 2015 at 11:57 am
What govt workers are retiring in their 40′s? Please show me the list of workers that are retiring in their 40′s? That’s total bs. No way you can retire in your 40′s and start collecting. Except for cops, no govt workers can retire in their 50′s. So why are you painting the picture that every govt worker retires in their 40′s and starts collecting six figure pensions in their 40′s. That’s a lot of bs in these statements.
Fcuk off. You have no idea what you’re talking about. My mother was a Jersey City public school teacher, two of my cousins teach in the public school system as did my Mother in law.
Most people with common sense believe that the unions are way too powerful. My mother and my aunt were afraid to work in Jersey City when there was a strike because people who did got their tires slashed.
You are nothing but a clueless ivory tower a$$hole.
The Great Pumpkin says:
July 28, 2015 at 11:53 am
You guys complain about govt workers because you look down on them. Why do none of you have a problem with executive pay that is clearly out of control? We are talking about a 10 million dollar bonus going to a ceo who has run a company into the ground and is being let go. You have no problem with this, but you have a problem with giving a worker pension that is not even six figures. Face it, you guys hate govt workers. You give no respect to teachers. It’s pretty pathetic.
“We can eliminate the Cadillac insurance plans they are all in and put them into HMOs like the rest of us.”
Who is the rest of us? HMO enrollment rate across the nation is around 25%.
Please!! Like I have never been to outbanks. Been there once, and won’t be going back. It’s dead. It has nice homes and nice area, but besides sitting in your oversized house or going to the beach, what can you do? They had like 2 good restaurants. Keep thinking North Carolina is some magical place. I;’ll stick to LBI. Much much better and closer.
Alex says:
July 28, 2015 at 9:58 am
11-
Pumpty, you are very uninformed. For you to say aside from RTP, the rest of NC is nothing but tobacco fields, is startling. Just google Asheville NC or the Outer Banks NC.
You’ve been living a very cocooned life.
Essex [28],
Huh??
I was going to write something with this exact sentiment. Somewhat to Essex point, the 81 year old has the benefit of wherever he lives and all the public services around him. He can build the argument that the cost of these benefits are overpriced, but it is not as if there are no reasonable options……hardly a hardship story….
phoenix says:
July 28, 2015 at 10:12 am
And .to the guy who bought this house for $32,000 has he ever heard of something called a reverse mortgage? he already has a real pension. He also has a house that quadrupled in value if not more. He also has Social Security and Medicare.
all things to support him that are proposed to be eliminated. So what makes him so special compared to a younger person?
Then what’s all the bashing about. Can ANYONE SIT HERE AND TELL ME THAT TEACHERS ARE GETTING RICH OFF THEIR SALARY AND PENSION. PLEASE SHOW ME EVIDENCE. They are getting a middle class lifestyle, which they deserve. They came together and formed a union, to better themselves. YOU GUYS BASH UNIONS AND THEN WONDER WHY YOU DON’T HAVE A 401K OR YOUR BOSS IS RAPING YOUR LABOR BY GIVING YOU NOTHING IN RETURN.
You guys are wrong to attack these workers out of jealousy, oh you don’t have it, so someone else can’t have it. They came together as union and better themselves, while us idiot private workers fight each other in the race to the bottom. Join a union and help yourself, or don’t bitch about workers getting some benefits because they joined a union.
D-FENS says:
July 28, 2015 at 12:06 pm
Fcuk off. You have no idea what you’re talking about. My mother was a Jersey City public school teacher, two of my cousins teach in the public school system as did my Mother in law.
Most people with common sense believe that the unions are way too powerful. My mother and my aunt were afraid to work in Jersey City when there was a strike because people who did got their tires slashed.
You are nothing but a clueless ivory tower a$$hole.
So the Supreme Court ruling on the $2.7T US owe SS is debt not taxes or the other way around?
yome,
Stop being stupid. If you don’t know the difference between taxes (current) and debt (previous), you’re hopeless.
* not 401k…pension. It’s a shame how the non-union work force is getting killed. I want what’s best for all workers. So instead of complaining about what the union workers have and trying to take it away, tell your boss you want to be paid like a human being or you will form a union. YOU WANT A PENSION. Don’t listen to the companies that won’t give it. Tell them you wont work for them if they don’t provide it.
Bashing other workers in not helping anything. Once these public unions are wiped out, everyone will be worse off for it. But you just don’t get it. Profits are not the problem. They are killing it. So why can’t they share? Instead you rally to take more and more from the worker. Pure stupidity.
anon’s idiocy is surpassed only by his fantastically myopic outlook and the abundance of projection.
Truly a poster child for DSM-V.
hopeless
[98] pumpkin
FWIW, Teachers in the brig drove nicer cars than the families in drop off line.
2015 Social Security Trustees report is the likelihood that Social Security beneficiaries won’t see a cost-of-living adjustment increase, or COLA, in 2016. According to the Trustees, Social Security beneficiaries can expect to receive a COLA increase of 0.0 percent. That’s right … a goose egg.
But first, let’s review the more-discussed news from the report. While the outlook for Social Security’s combined trust funds is slightly improved, the overall trend for program finances is still very negative. The Trustees report a one-year improvement in the estimated exhaustion dates for both Social Security’s Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI), or retirement, trust fund (from 2034 to 2035), as well as its combined OASI and Disability Insurance (DI) trust funds (from 2033 to 2034). The Trustees again project the disability trust fund will be depleted in the fourth quarter of 2016 — just in time for the general elections.
While most think of Social Security as a single program, the OASI and DI trust funds are legally separate because they are designed to serve different purposes and different populations. This split is of urgent importance for DI beneficiaries, as — absent legislative action to shore up the program’s finances — benefits will automatically be cut by almost 20% upon the trust fund’s depletion, since by law the program can only pay out in benefits what it receives in revenue.
Returning to the issue of the COLA, as the Trustees point out on page 113 of the report:
“Volatility in oil prices has resulted in substantial volatility in recent cost-of-living adjustments. A large cost-of-living adjustment in December 2008 was followed by no cost-of-living adjustments in December 2009 and December 2010. More recent volatility in oil prices has again affected the CPI. As a result, projections under the intermediate- and high-cost assumptions do not have a cost-of-living adjustment for December 2015.”
Unless there is significant inflation over the next few months, Social Security beneficiaries shouldn’t expect a cost-of-living adjustment (COLA) in their benefits for 2016. On the bright side, for those working and paying into the Social Security system via payroll taxes, when there isn’t a COLA increase, there’s also no corresponding increase in the amount of wage income subject to Social Security payroll taxes, currently $118,500. While that may be little comfort to those living on Social Security benefits, take heart that the Trustees do expect a COLA for 2017.
For those interested in learning more about how the Social Security COLA is determined, I wrote a short paper for the Mercatus Center on this topic in 2010, the last time Social Security beneficiaries went without a cost-of-living benefit increase.
No kidding, this is exactly how it should be. Instead of all workers uniting, they attack the workers that have what they want. It should be a right to be able to retire and maintain the same standard of living. WE ALL WANT THAT AND SHOULD BE GIVEN THAT FOR A LIFETIME OF WORK. Of course if the govt forced a pension for all, you would be bitching that govt is going too far.
Business is making big money. They can afford to share by taking care of their workers. They choose not to because they have people like you rallying around them to screw the workers, claiming they get paid too much. There are close to 600 billionaires living in america with avg value of 5 billion dollars.
How the hell did they accrue this kind of money without taking it from the profits that were supposed to go to the worker?
Libturd in Union says:
July 28, 2015 at 10:55 am
I have a much better solution. Let’s take all workers, private and public and let them all participate in the government pension plan. Do you have an issue with this?
Then go be a teacher. Let me see you get rich off a teacher salary. IMPOSSIBLE.
Comrade Nom Deplume in Mass says:
July 28, 2015 at 12:34 pm
[98] pumpkin
FWIW, Teachers in the brig drove nicer cars than the families in drop off line.
“Except for cops, no govt workers can retire in their 50′s”
Early Retirement
Available to members who have
25 years
or more of pension mem-
bership service credit before reaching age
60
for
Tier 1
and
Tier 2
members, or age
62
for
Tier 3
or
Tier 4
members; or with
30 years
or more of pension membership service credit before reaching age
65
for
Tier 5
members. The benefit is calculated using the appro-
priate Service Retirement formula (see page 7).
•
For Tier 1 members
who retire before age 55, your allowance
is reduced 1/4 of 1 percent (3 percent per year) for each month
under age 55.
For example:
If you retire at age 54, you will receive 97 percent
of your full retirement allowance. If you retire between the ages
of 55 and 60, there is no reduction.
•
For Tier 2 members
who retire before age 60, your allowance
is reduced 1/12 of 1 percent (1 percent per year) for each
month under age 60 through age 55, and 1/4 of 1 percent (3
percent per year) for each month under age 55.
For example:
If you retire at age 54, you will receive 92 percent
of your full retirement allowance. If you retire at age 57 you will
receive 97 percent of your full retirement allowance.
•
For Tier 3 or Tier 4 members
who retire before age 62, your
allowance is reduced 1/12 of 1 percent (1 percent per year) for
each month under age 62 through age 55, and 1/4 of 1 percent
(3 percent per year) for each month under age 55.
For example:
If you retire at age 54, you will receive 92 percent
of your full retirement allowance. If you retire at age 57 you will
receive 95 percent of your full retirement allowance.
•
For Tier 5 members
who retire before age 65, your allowance
is reduced 1/4 of 1 percent (3 percent per year) for each month
under age 65.
For example:
If you retire at age 57, you will receive 76 percent
of your full retirement allowance. If you retire at age 63, you will
receive 94 percent of your full retirement allowance.
Out of college at 22. Start teaching at say 25. You’ll have your 25 years at age 50. Suck it Blumpy!
Are you serious? Now you would be okay with being a bus driver because they get a crappy pension? Come on now. You know this is bs.
Comrade Nom Deplume in Mass says:
July 28, 2015 at 10:58 am
[52] juice
Yep, I drove busses in college. Should have stuck with it and I could be retired on a fat pension. But nooooo, I wanted to think . . .
How many years before we have a real life enactment of the movie “Purge”?
A little dated, 2012, data probably still accurate. Can kickers don’t care, they won’t be around to pay the piper……..
“Fully 61% of seniors say maintaining benefits is more important, just 22% say reducing the budget deficit should take priority.”
“As has consistently been the case, seniors express the strongest opposition to changing Medicare into a program that offers future participants credits toward purchasing private health insurance coverage. People age 65 and older who have heard about this proposal oppose it by a 55% to 24% margin.”
http://www.people-press.org/2012/08/21/medicare-voucher-plan-remains-unpopular/
00 pump are you going to form a union in your company? Just saying?
34 lib in addition to the
34 lib in addition to the pension and health care or of residents in many north jersey towns have only themselves to blame for approving one reckless spending referendum after another. The residents of the original brigadoone made it an art form. Now many are trying to sell and they can’t undestand why no one wants their house with a 12 to 15k tax bill! And of course they are not going to give it away!
107- Lib, what these tiers. You can’t just throw that out there without explaining what these tiers represent. (Tier5) If you retire at 57, you only get 76%. What’s the big deal if they want to take a 25% haircut every year for taking it early? That’s losing a year every 4 years. Did you account for this in your pension calculations?
For Tier 5 members
who retire before age 65, your allowance
is reduced 1/4 of 1 percent (3 percent per year) for each month
under age 65.
For example:
If you retire at age 57, you will receive 76 percent
of your full retirement allowance. If you retire at age 63, you will
receive 94 percent of your full retirement allowance.
A Home Buyer (80):
What are your assumptions. I went with 75K as the average salary of a teacher working 25 years. Starting at 50K and finishing at 100K. I only choose those numbers because that’s what I found was common in Montclair/Glen Ridge. Contribute 5.5% of salary for 25 years at average of 75K and you get total contribution of $103,125. At full retirement age (now 65, used to be 55), you end up with $41,666.67 per year until death. Say you live to be 85 (average life expectancy for a female born in 59), you collect a total of $833,334. Still nothing to sneeze at. Then there’s the health care benefit for the retiree and their spouse. What do you think that’s worth? Admittedly, the reforms of 2011 have made some significant improvement, but the final numbers are still far from solvent. I wonder what cutting the Cadillac healthcare plan to a normal PPO would do?
And current buyers can’t control current property taxes and they can’t control rising interest rates. They can control however the price they will pay. Amazing how so many selling houses refuse to understand that.
Yes, if my co-workers would not be so anti-union, maybe we could help ourselves. Instead they go against our their own interest. I get paid well, and I get good benefits. I really don’t need a union. For these other workers getting walked all over, they would be smart to unionize as the only means to protect themselves from being abused.
3b says:
July 28, 2015 at 12:48 pm
00 pump are you going to form a union in your company? Just saying?
Where is the compounding interest accounted for? Where is the state’s contribution accounted for?
Libturd in Union says:
July 28, 2015 at 12:54 pm
A Home Buyer (80):
What are your assumptions. I went with 75K as the average salary of a teacher working 25 years. Starting at 50K and finishing at 100K. I only choose those numbers because that’s what I found was common in Montclair/Glen Ridge. Contribute 5.5% of salary for 25 years at average of 75K and you get total contribution of $103,125. At full retirement age (now 65, used to be 55), you end up with $41,666.67 per year until death. Say you live to be 85 (average life expectancy for a female born in 59), you collect a total of $833,334. Still nothing to sneeze at. Then there’s the health care benefit for the retiree and their spouse. What do you think that’s worth? Admittedly, the reforms of 2011 have made some significant improvement, but the final numbers are still far from solvent. I wonder what cutting the Cadillac healthcare plan to a normal PPO would do?
114 – Troll
Why don’t you look at the TPAF handbook yourself.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/pensions/pdf/handbook/tpafbook.pdf
With the amount of word vomit you throw out each day, I figured you at least knew about this document.
But because you dont research, here is the cliff notes.
**********
Pension legislation has changed the enrollment and
retirement criteria for TPAF members enrolled as of
certain dates. These differences in TPAF membership
— referred to as “membership tiers” — are
defined as follows:
• Membership Tier 1 — Members who were
enrolled prior to July 1, 2007.
• Membership Tier 2 — Members who were eligible
to enroll on or after July 1, 2007 and prior
to November 2, 2008 — pursuant to the provisions
of Chapter 103, P.L. 2007.
• Membership Tier 3 — Members eligible to
enroll on or after November 2, 2008 and on or
before May 21, 2010 — pursuant to the provisions
of Chapter 89, P.L. 2008.
• Membership Tier 4 — Members eligible to
enroll after May 21, 2010 — pursuant to the
provisions of Chapters 1 and 3, P.L. 2010.
• Membership Tier 5 — Members eligible to
enroll on or after June 28, 2011 — pursuant to
the provisions of Chapter 78, P.L. 2011.
Unless otherwise indicated by membership tier, the
benefits listed in this handbook are the same for all
TPAF members.
The tiers represent an attempt at making the pension whole every few years when the union realizes (and admits to some extent) that the formula is way to rich. Each tier represents workers hired at a later date, not grandfathered in to the sweet deal their predecessors received.
It’s a sweet deal. Go to the calculator and punch in some numbers.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/pensions/estimate-tpaf5.shtml
And sorry gramps, maybe if you voted for a tax increase in 1950, 1960, 1970, or 1980, pushed hard to balance the budget then, voted to shore up Social Security, voted to balance the pension budget, etc, this would not be a problem today. Look in the mirror, you voted for those that gave you what you wanted.
A deficit is the same thing as charging on your credit card. You love what you have but don’t want to pay for it now. You think some kid at the Dairy Queen should cut you a check and not expect the same thing in return.
Budgets should be balanced, every year , no questions asked. No pay, no play.
I would imagine almost everyone who posts on this website pays their credit card balance in full every month. Why shouldn’t the government be held to the same standards?
Those numbers are for a teacher. The firemen and police do much, much better. After all, they endorsed the dems in the assembly AND the repubs who occasionally get voted in to govern their treasure trove of a state. So they deserve it.
“Where is the state’s contribution accounted for?”
The entire thing is the state’s (taxpayer’s) contribution.
NYC Sanitation can retire after 20 years of service. Unlike Cops or Firemen where there is a waiting list and you have to wait for the academy to start with a bunch of other cops you can start work on your 18 birthday.
My buddies friend who I hung out with back in day got a part time street sweeper job with NYC sanitation at 16. The day he turn 18 he went full time and the day he turned 38 he retired.
He also got married around 37 to a 26 year old secretary so guess what a 26 year old girl has free medical for life and gets part of his pension after he passes away of old age.
Only a disingenuous / idiotic person would refuse to acknowledge the distinction between public and private union… between public and private overpriced cost and compensation.
115 – Lib,
I went full Econ 101 and converted everything to future dollars using all those adjustment formula’s for annuities, annuities with growth, present, future, etc. (it just worked easiest for me to bring things into future dollars once I started that way).
My 720K for contribution is a future dollar amount account for the effective rate (interest and growth vs inflation).
Here’s my favorite Montclair retiree. Born in 1980. Collecting a disability pension since 2005 after not even one year as a Montclair police officer. His permanent disability pension was granted largely because a distraught family member yelled at him and blamed him for a relative’s death in a fire.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nj-supreme-court/1567903.html
http://php.app.com/retireNJ/details.php?recordID=211653
Also, many of you have benefited financially from the outsourcing of the same jobs that put food on your own table for years. You loved the 2 tier wage system, hey, you were the “senior” worker, hey, don’t touch my job, give the new guy less, let me keep my bennies and pay, you can hire new guys for half. Your money in the stock market soared.
Stop crying poverty, you voted for everything for yourselves. And you have it. And as in the past, it is still never enough for you.
I just got my SS statement yesterday. So far, I’ve contributed over 200K. If I was a teacher and this was my pension contribution, I would qualify for an $83,000 per year retirement! I wonder what I’ll get, since I chose to work a 12-month a year job. I think my current payment was estimated at like $2,100. If I was a teacher and it was a pension, I would have received $7,000 per month. And at 65, not at 67!
It might have been $2,700 a month, not $2,100 a month. And Home Buyer, you is on crack!
phoenix,
Nothing is stopping a public employee from putting their savings into the stock market. We have a librarian in our investment club who I am teaching the way.
Here’s a better question for the union lovers here. What would be a fare company match if the state pension system went to a 401K. Hmmm?
126 – edit
In regards to assumptions:
Base Salary Information: $52,000.00
Average Salary Yearly Increase: 2.00%
Today’s Health Care Cost: $6,000.00
Base Current Age: 22
Age of Pension Withdraw: 60
Life Expectancy 85
Average Inflation Rate 3.31%
Average Investment Gain 7.00%
Effective Interest Rate: 3.57%
Average Health Care Inflation 6.00%
I set my formula’s up in excel so I can see every year from 22 to 65 and change values on the fly.
Health care was the monster. 6K a year in present dollars, taken to future dollars after 40 years at 6% health care inflation, and then being an annuity (still increasing mind you) for basically 25 years until death. It really adds up.
How did you come up with $6,000 for the healthcare cost? When I researched it, I thought the cost was much much higher to the state.
114 – Troll,
Why the hell don’t you figure out the pension payments? Your a financial analyst. You should have professional grade software at your disposal to quickly figure this out. Assuming that you are (worst case) dumb as bricks and cant do it yourself, there should at least be a bored 200K+ guru somewhere in that company who can do it for you because he likes working with numbers.
I’m over here cranking things out in excel, why dont you spend 30 minutes and give us a professional print out (during you lunch break of course) on why pensions are fine?
Libturd,
Why is a student loan the only loan not dischargeable in bankruptcy?
Why do older people complain about kids texting while bragging about how much money they made on their Apple stock?
Why are banks peddling credit cards on college campuses without having to teach responsible borrowing habits?
Why do we as adults allow our children to be marketed to relentlessly, then complain when they want or beg for something? Have you not trained your child to be a consumer?
Why a 2 tier wage system or “grandfathering.”
134 –
I am basing it off what I pay.
It is completely divorced from their actual benefit amount. The state normally does pay more (total) for the Cadillac plans they provide, but I don’t have a source to prove it comes in higher. I just know it cannot be less then that…. because that’s what people in organizations with 30K people still pay per month (and is not even touching the part that the state / company covers for the employee).
So that number is probably far to liberal, but without a source I hesitate to go higher.
[16] splat
“Someone sedate Blumpkin”
I’m waiting for the Purge.
96. I understand the what and the why of what you did, but it still makes absolutely no sense to me.
Libturd,
Why is a student loan the only loan not dischargeable in bankruptcy? Because the Feds make 12 billion a year off of them. Got to make sure those workers get paid. Wall Street needs their cut too.
Why do older people complain about kids texting while bragging about how much money they made on their Apple stock? Do they? My mom bought an iPhone.
Why are banks peddling credit cards on college campuses without having to teach responsible borrowing habits? Ask the members of the American Bankers Association.
Why do we as adults allow our children to be marketed to relentlessly, then complain when they want or beg for something? Have you not trained your child to be a consumer? My kid gets his soccer jersey’s from Ali Xpress ($16). His hockey skates were $500 in 2013 when they were manufactured, but I got them for $99 in 2015. He understands credit, loans, mortgages, interest and the stock market. My parents taught me all this as well. He also knows that he got to fly first class to London and Paris through a credit card offer and that we would never pay for such a luxury.
Why a 2 tier wage system or “grandfathering.” There shouldn’t be. What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander. Just like it is for everything in Congress (oh wait).
I had the healthcare cost number the other day. Let me see if I can find it again.
Here’s a better question for the union lovers here. What would be a fare company match if the state pension system went to a 401K.
Ooo… heavy f.ucking question!! Can’t wait to see the answers!
Essex,
What makes no sense?
140 Glad to see you are protecting your children from being a victim from these vultures as best you can.
The unlucky kids are the ones who don’t have savvy parents like you….
50 cents on a dollar with 100 year vesting
Fast Eddie says:
July 28, 2015 at 1:47 pm
Here’s a better question for the union lovers here. What would be a fare company match if the state pension system went to a 401K.
Ooo… heavy f.ucking question!! Can’t wait to see the answers!
In 2014, the average cost of insurance the state paid for a family health care plan was $18,732.
Read it and weep.
All the hipsters in Richmond are VCU kids, not grown ups. Why would you stay in Richmond after graduation? Everyone I know who has lived in Richmond has been mugged, a fact I find amusing. No culture after college, crap schools, totally segregated.
My favorite thing about eating at all those… wonderful… Richmond restaurants is that over dessert, you get to overhear the kind of casual racism that has become so unfashionable up here.
Let me see if I can find out what my company (approximately 4K employees) pays.
146, that pretty close to my estimate of what a decent healthcare plan costs for a family of 4. I would have been inclined to think that the state would have better negotiating powers, that is higher than I thought unless the plans are really gold plated.
buying a place before you sell the one you have — but hey –I could be wrong.
I doubt I will ever do that.
If it’s so easy, why hasn’t anyone here become a street sweeper to live high off the hog? Talk about your missed opportunities.
I never said they were rich. As usual, you are not listening. You are just shouting over people.
The Great Pumpkin says:
July 28, 2015 at 12:22 pm
Then what’s all the bashing about. Can ANYONE SIT HERE AND TELL ME THAT TEACHERS ARE GETTING RICH OFF THEIR SALARY AND PENSION. PLEASE SHOW ME EVIDENCE. They are getting a middle class lifestyle, which they deserve. They came together and formed a union, to better themselves. YOU GUYS BASH UNIONS AND THEN WONDER WHY YOU DON’T HAVE A 401K OR YOUR BOSS IS RAPING YOUR LABOR BY GIVING YOU NOTHING IN RETURN.
You guys are wrong to attack these workers out of jealousy, oh you don’t have it, so someone else can’t have it. They came together as union and better themselves, while us idiot private workers fight each other in the race to the bottom. Join a union and help yourself, or don’t bitch about workers getting some benefits because they joined a union.
146 – Lib,
Ouch. It is probably safe to say that $18,000, adjusted for 6% heath care inflation for 40 years, paid out for an additional 25 years on average until death… is a really big number.
Our former CEO received a 9 digit option execution several years ago. Blew up the payroll system on that one! I don’t complain that much. He quadrupled the stock price during his tenure. Now, if only guv employees can return the favor to the taxpayers, then I would stop complaining. OK, any examples out there where a government employee SAVED the taxpayers many many $$$
154. think of it this way. The government sent us to the moon. It cost money. The beneficiaries of that late sixties triumph were technology companies and aerospace firms.
Essex,
I know. But there’s no turning back now. No one is going to take a contingency in the better towns. When I tried this two years ago, my house sold in a week and searched for months. Since then, I’ve made improvenments such as a new roof, new A/C condenser, crown molding, new garage door, etc. It will sell; I just hope sooner rather than later. This is the only way I could possibly do it. I looked for years and saw nothing but sh1t. When I found this house a few weeks ago, it had enough on the checklist that if I didn’t pull the trigger, I would have never done it. In the end, it’s too late now to turn back. What a long, strange trip it’s going to be. I’m f.ucking humbled.
153 – Math
I’m hoping my math is wrong, but $18,000 present dollars at 6% health care inflation using a (F/P, 6%, 40) and then (F/A, 6%, 25) is 9,000,000 dollars.
That is compared to $720,000 being paid into the system in future dollars.
Ouch…
For my family coverage in a PPO ($25 copay for in network physician) I pay 39% of the $16,800 bill.
The state plans seem to vary from $1400 to $1800 per month premiums or $16,800 to $21,600. So with their 4 year phase in plan, they paid an average of $4,150 per year or less than one 1/4 of the premium for significantly better coverage with lower copays and significantly lower prescription plans.
It’s good to be in government.
156. Big testicles
For my family coverage in a PP0 ($25 copay for in network physician) I pay 39% of the $16,800 bill.
The state plans seem to vary from $1400 to $1800 per month premiums or $16,800 to $21,600. So with their 4 year phase in plan, they paid an average of $4,150 per year or less than one 1/4 of the premium for significantly better coverage with lower copays and significantly lower prescription plans.
It’s good to be in government.
For my family coverage in a PPO ($25 copay for in network physician) I pay 39% of the $16,800 bill.
The state plans seem to vary from $1400 to $1800 per month premiums or $16,800 to $21,600. So with their 4 year phase in plan, they paid an average of $4,150 per year or less than one 1/4 of the premium for significantly better coverage with lower co-pays and significantly lower prescripti0n plans.
It’s good to be in government.
And Home Buyer. Until 2011. Most NJ workers didn’t pay a penny towards their healthcare coverage. I’m telling you all, it was the world’s greatest gravy train. All thanks to the union endorsement.
Check this out from 2008.
“The more interesting move was the one made by Republican nominee Chris Christie. Not only did he not get the NJEA endorsement, he did not want it. In a letter to NJEA President Joyce Powell he stated “I am not seeking the formal endorsement of your organization because it will require promises that the Governor and I both know will not be kept by either candidate who makes them.” Now conventional wisdom is that in New Jersey, which has been a state that leans strongly Democratic and is pro-union, it is smart politics to work with the NJEA and not against it. While I do not necessarily disagree with the conventional wisdom, for some reason this time, I have a hunch that Chris Christie’s “snub” (neither NJEA nor Christie is calling it a snub, but lets face it, that’s what it is) may have been a shrewd political gamble.”
Did Janet Yellen fart? Markets are up over 1%?
I love when the street sees the implosion of the Shanghai composite as a reason for the FED not to increase interest rates even symbolically.
What do the NJ retirees get for their healthcare? Do they get the platinum plan or do they get a Medicare supplemental plan after they reach age 65? That might explain a difference in premium>
Supplimental to Medicare. Need me to look up those rates?
Looks like it was free until 2008, then partially paid until 2011. This is for those retired already. Looks like you pay a percentage for coverage after 2011. It’s very confusing (intentionally?) with all of the reforms and their frequency.
Bernie Sanders Joins Donald Trump In Denouncing Higher Immigration
Read more: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/bernie-sanders-joins-donald-trump-in-denouncing-higher-immigration/#ixzz3hDNaZH8j
Follow us: @TheLibRepublic on Twitter
More on the “fight for $15”
http://www.kirotv.com/videos/online/video-workers-asking-to-cut-their-hours-because-of/vDTY6b/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/28/hedge-funds-puerto-rico-close-schools-fire-teachers-pay-us-back
Encapsulating everything wrong with public unions…
Had lunch today with a friend. Private school teacher, around northeast and NJ. Later 50s. Masters with 30 years teaching. Brings intangibles, very involved in extracurricular activities. Likely cutbacks at his current school. Not geographically convenient so he thinks if can move to another school he would raise his hand to leave. Looks at a couple of public districts.
He is told he is ‘unemployable’ in the public sector. Based on the pay ‘grid’ of his years teaching and education a public school district would need to pay him $93k.
Early in his search he offered to work for substantially less, $50k+. Told that is against NJEA contract. There are only two choices as far as the NJEA is concerned – pay him $93k or don’t hire him.
Well four choices, if you count he becomes unemployed and the kids miss out on an experienced, dedicated teacher.
Repeat: The school district cannot hire a teacher at a mutually agreed upon salary if it is not the one prescribed in the contract even if they want him and the teacher would work for less.
What backward@ass kind of world is this?
@ianbremmer: Latest CNN/ORC Poll
Trump 19%
Bush 15%
Walker 10%
Rubio 7%
Cruz 6%
Paul 6%
Huckabee 5%
Are you kidding me? This is a joke. My goodness, the current young govt workers are getting robbed beyond belief. This is truly disgusting how the older generations continue to rob the naive youth. Criminal!! How do they get away with this?
A Home Buyer says:
July 28, 2015 at 12:57 pm
114 – Troll
Why don’t you look at the TPAF handbook yourself.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/pensions/pdf/handbook/tpafbook.pdf
With the amount of word vomit you throw out each day, I figured you at least knew about this document.
But because you dont research, here is the cliff notes.
**********
Pension legislation has changed the enrollment and
retirement criteria for TPAF members enrolled as of
certain dates. These differences in TPAF membership
— referred to as “membership tiers” — are
defined as follows:
• Membership Tier 1 — Members who were
enrolled prior to July 1, 2007.
• Membership Tier 2 — Members who were eligible
to enroll on or after July 1, 2007 and prior
to November 2, 2008 — pursuant to the provisions
of Chapter 103, P.L. 2007.
• Membership Tier 3 — Members eligible to
enroll on or after November 2, 2008 and on or
before May 21, 2010 — pursuant to the provisions
of Chapter 89, P.L. 2008.
• Membership Tier 4 — Members eligible to
enroll after May 21, 2010 — pursuant to the
provisions of Chapters 1 and 3, P.L. 2010.
• Membership Tier 5 — Members eligible to
enroll on or after June 28, 2011 — pursuant to
the provisions of Chapter 78, P.L. 2011.
Unless otherwise indicated by membership tier, the
benefits listed in this handbook are the same for all
TPAF members.
Leftwing,
The world in which government and unions run things.
I think ALL companies should be forced to match up to 10%. It’s all going into the stock market, and that benefits everyone. It’s also providing a nest egg that will be able to support a retirement. 20% would be more than enough to provide for a retirement. Get rid of Social security and put in controls to make sure the retirees with spending problems don’t go broke.
Libturd in Union says:
July 28, 2015 at 1:10 pm
Here’s a better question for the union lovers here. What would be a fare company match if the state pension system went to a 401K. Hmmm?
Powerful posts today! You really understand how the youth are being taken advantage by their elders.
phoenix says:
July 28, 2015 at 1:05 pm
Also, many of you have benefited financially from the outsourcing of the same jobs that put food on your own table for years. You loved the 2 tier wage system, hey, you were the “senior” worker, hey, don’t touch my job, give the new guy less, let me keep my bennies and pay, you can hire new guys for half. Your money in the stock market soared.
Stop crying poverty, you voted for everything for yourselves. And you have it. And as in the past, it is still never enough for you.
If this is true, it’s not the workers making off, but the private health insurance executives/shareholders. Robbing the tax payer blind charging that much. I’m sure the workers would rather skip the health insurance plan and instead be compensated monetarily with 18,732 instead.
Libturd in Union says:
July 28, 2015 at 1:53 pm
In 2014, the average cost of insurance the state paid for a family health care plan was $18,732.
Read it and weep.
Pumpkin = Pat = Re-investor 101
Encapsulating everything wrong with public unions…
Had lunch today with a friend. Private school teacher, around northeast and NJ. Later 50s. Masters with 30 years teaching. Brings intangibles, very involved in extracurricular activities. Likely cutbacks at his current school. Not geographically convenient so he thinks if can move to another school he would raise his hand to leave. Looks at a couple of public districts.
He is told he is ‘unemployable’ in the public sector. Based on the pay ‘grid’ of his years teaching and education a public school district would need to pay him $93k.
Early in his search he offered to work for substantially less, $50k+. Told that is against NJEA contract. There are only two choices as far as the NJEA is concerned – pay him $93k or don’t hire him.
Well four choices, if you count he becomes unemployed and the kids miss out on an experienced, dedicated teacher.
Repeat: The school district cannot hire a teacher at a mutually agreed upon salary if it is not the one prescribed in the contract even if they want him and the teacher would work for less.
What backward@ass kind of world is this?
That’s not true. They are able to hire him at step 1. Districts do it all the time. He was given the runaround because they didn’t want him. That being said, he would have to start out at MS+30 which would be 60 to 70k in most districts at Step 1. My guess is, he’s in a field where there’s a lot of youth that they can bring on a Bachelor’s step 1 which can be anywhere from 40k to 50 in most districts.
But I do agree, it’s bullcrap but its part of the union stranglehold on the system. Usually it works against the people already in because they cannot get a new salary in district and must leave to go to another district to get a higher salary.
People are allowed to come in at any step they want. The salary guide is different for differing amounts of education. You can be hired at the lowest step or the highest. It’s just that the first time you negotiate, that’s it. You are then in the hands of the union from there on out.
Lmao….seriously!! I messed up.
Wily Millennial says:
July 28, 2015 at 1:57 pm
If it’s so easy, why hasn’t anyone here become a street sweeper to live high off the hog? Talk about your missed opportunities.
Don’t forget about the Internet. We wouldn’t even be on this blog if it wasn’t for the govt. Wish people would understand that the institution of a govt is a good thing, it just becomes bad when corrupted by big money. A govt can’t rob and steal, only people can. Vote Bernie and start ending this corruption by big money.
Essex says:
July 28, 2015 at 2:07 pm
154. think of it this way. The government sent us to the moon. It cost money. The beneficiaries of that late sixties triumph were technology companies and aerospace firms.
Maybe I’m the idiot, but that’s a smart move by the union. You can maintain wages if idiots come in and do it for less. Isn’t that the purpose of the union, coming together to protect your rights and compensation?
Funny, you get mad at regular workers coming together to help themselves, but have no problem with all the business cartels in place.
leftwing says:
July 28, 2015 at 3:57 pm
Encapsulating everything wrong with public unions…
Had lunch today with a friend. Private school teacher, around northeast and NJ. Later 50s. Masters with 30 years teaching. Brings intangibles, very involved in extracurricular activities. Likely cutbacks at his current school. Not geographically convenient so he thinks if can move to another school he would raise his hand to leave. Looks at a couple of public districts.
He is told he is ‘unemployable’ in the public sector. Based on the pay ‘grid’ of his years teaching and education a public school district would need to pay him $93k.
Early in his search he offered to work for substantially less, $50k+. Told that is against NJEA contract. There are only two choices as far as the NJEA is concerned – pay him $93k or don’t hire him.
Well four choices, if you count he becomes unemployed and the kids miss out on an experienced, dedicated teacher.
Repeat: The school district cannot hire a teacher at a mutually agreed upon salary if it is not the one prescribed in the contract even if they want him and the teacher would work for less.
What backward@ass kind of world is this?
*you can’t maintain wages..
179- Just read ben’s post and I see you talk to people that bs. I was going to say, that sounds pretty crazy.
Do you know why unions came about? Everything comes about as a consequence of another action. This action was owners of business totally taking advantage of their workers because they could. A union was a check/balance on this practice.
Listen, I wish workers didn’t have to resort to unions either, but unfortunately without unions, most workers get eaten alive. Notice everyone here bitching about their shitty jobs and wishing they could be a union street sweeper, well that’s a result of unions in the private sphere getting their butts kicked by the oligarchy . They are dead. Is it no wonder the majority of workers are now being taken advantage of and unhappy with their jobs? If unions were stronger, they would have never allowed for jobs to be shipped to China in the name of higher profits.
You’re an idiot.
The Great Pumpkin says:
July 28, 2015 at 4:37 pm
It’s all going into the stock market, and that benefits everyone.
A company or corporation can’t stick it to the workers… only people can.
The Great Pumpkin says:
July 28, 2015 at 5:03 pm
A govt can’t rob and steal, only people can.
Did the American car industry get taken out by unions or by a terrible product? The late 80’s and 90’s, American automobiles sucked. There was no style and the engineering sucked. But people love to blame the union worker for the fall of their industry when in reality it was terrible management that lacked any kind of creative imagination when it came to their product.
Blaming union workers for a failing business is just a cop out by the terrible job done by management.
“I can’t profit because the workers get paid too much” said no succesful business owner ever. You shouldn’t have to pay workers nothing to profit. Something is terribly wrong with your business model if people can’t survive on your wages. They shouldn’t need help from the govt if they are working. Of course it doesn’t work like that because some people are robbing workers blind. Totally taking advantage of the situation.
Amen! Govt/corporation is not the problem. It’s the greed in control of them that is the problem.
joyce says:
July 28, 2015 at 5:26 pm
A company or corporation can’t stick it to the workers… only people can.
The Great Pumpkin says:
July 28, 2015 at 5:03 pm
A govt can’t rob and steal, only people can.
So how do you propose to put controls in place, who will implement and monitor them?
I like the cutesy premise that unions are good and wholesome, and that totally ignores the decades of horribly corrupt unions.
You want to argue that every corporation upon founding, is immediately corrupt. I’ll raise you the fact that through history, more unions were corrupt than were not.
I might even argue the widespread corruption in unions was one of the major factors in the downfall of unions in the years that followed.
Want some fun reading? Read into how Hoffa diverted union pensions to fund the building of mob-backed casinos in Vegas. Funny, even unions can’t help but borrow against their own pensions.
http://laborunionreport.com/2014/01/02/union-corruption-report-2013-a-years-worth-of-corrupt-union-bosses/
Grim, the institution is not the problem, it’s the people corrupted by greed and running them that are the problem.
grim says:
July 28, 2015 at 5:36 pm
I like the cutesy premise that unions are good and wholesome, and that totally ignores the decades of horribly corrupt unions.
You want to argue that every corporation upon founding, is immediately corrupt. I’ll raise you the fact that through history, more unions were corrupt than were not.
I might even argue the widespread corruption in unions was one of the major factors in the downfall of unions in the years that followed.
Want some fun reading? Read into how Hoffa diverted union pensions to fund the building of mob-backed casinos in Vegas. Funny, even unions can’t help but borrow against their own pensions.
187- grim, it’s not institution that is the problem. It’s the people corrupted by greed,running the show, that are the problem.
Maybe I’m the idiot, but that’s a smart move by the union. You can maintain wages if idiots come in and do it for less. Isn’t that the purpose of the union, coming together to protect your rights and compensation?
Funny, you get mad at regular workers coming together to help themselves, but have no problem with all the business cartels in place
The union has created a contract in which you cannot get a raise beyond a step which equates to about $1200 a year. A new teacher in some districts would have to put in 25 years to even sniff the top. Meanwhile, most teachers I’ve encountered have proven they are the best of the best by year 3 or 4. The union is a labor cartel that holds back their own memberships advancement in the name of seniority.
Yes, the institutions are the problem because they are granted powers that individuals don’t have inherently… and power is abused always.
You have to have the penalties for corruption in place to be very strong. Meaning, you get caught as an elected official, or executive of a corporation, being a part of a corruption scheme, you will be executed.
I think this would solve a lot of problems. Think of what message is being sent when no one is being charged with taking down our economy in 2008.
joyce says:
July 28, 2015 at 5:35 pm
So how do you propose to put controls in place, who will implement and monitor them?
“My guess is, he’s in a field where there’s a lot of youth that they can bring on a Bachelor’s…” History/civics or whatever passes for it these days
“Funny, you get mad at regular workers coming together to help themselves, but have no problem with all the business cartels in place.” You know punkin, I’ve never really attacked you personally. At first I reasoned and used logic for your ADHD/OCD cut and pastes, which I soon discovered was pointless. I then criticized your views, but not you. Do you even read the garbage you write? I have never said anything of the like. You are a dolt.
“The union is a labor cartel that holds back their own memberships advancement in the name of seniority” Seniority does not equal quality. In fact, when seniority is mostly blindly protected one often assures that it specifically does not ensure quality.
Ben, I appreciate how you bring across an honest assessment of the teaching profession. I just assumed the union was to their benefit. Without your analysis, i would have no idea of the negatives that come with the union membership.
Ben says:
July 28, 2015 at 5:53 pm
Maybe I’m the idiot, but that’s a smart move by the union. You can maintain wages if idiots come in and do it for less. Isn’t that the purpose of the union, coming together to protect your rights and compensation?
Funny, you get mad at regular workers coming together to help themselves, but have no problem with all the business cartels in place
The union has created a contract in which you cannot get a raise beyond a step which equates to about $1200 a year. A new teacher in some districts would have to put in 25 years to even sniff the top. Meanwhile, most teachers I’ve encountered have proven they are the best of the best by year 3 or 4. The union is a labor cartel that holds back their own memberships advancement in the name of seniority.
[190] Ben
The union has created a contract in which you cannot get a raise beyond a step which equates to about $1200 a year.
Or said differently, the Union has guaranteed you will get a @1200 raise every year regardless of your performance. Double edged sword.
Im sorry, I mistakened you for a stern proponent of conservatism. Guess I was wrong.
leftwing says:
July 28, 2015 at 6:51 pm
“My guess is, he’s in a field where there’s a lot of youth that they can bring on a Bachelor’s…” History/civics or whatever passes for it these days
“Funny, you get mad at regular workers coming together to help themselves, but have no problem with all the business cartels in place.” You know punkin, I’ve never really attacked you personally. At first I reasoned and used logic for your ADHD/OCD cut and pastes, which I soon discovered was pointless. I then criticized your views, but not you. Do you even read the garbage you write? I have never said anything of the like. You are a dolt.
“The union is a labor cartel that holds back their own memberships advancement in the name of seniority” Seniority does not equal quality. In fact, when seniority is mostly blindly protected one often assures that it specifically does not ensure quality.
Way to answer 1 part of my question, Idiot. Who will enforce the penalties? What happens if they don’t enforce them?
Or said differently, the Union has guaranteed you will get a @1200 raise every year regardless of your performance. Double edged sword.
Not true. I’d say over half of the districts in New Jersey have seen their steps frozen once or twice over the past six years. I saw mine frozen twice. I think the step system is stupid. An individual should have the right to negotiate for his/herself. Tenure should be eliminated. And job security could be negotiated in the form of multiyear contracts.
197- Why do you get you so angry at what I say. Why can’t you debate the issue? Just because I have a different way of looking at the issue, doesn’t make me an idiot. I can be wrong, but it doesn’t make me an idiot. I’m not allowed to think differently, have to stand in line and waive that conservative flag because they are right on every single issue?
“stern proponent of conservatism…”
Can you tumble any further down the rabbit hole?
So with 80 billion neurons (allegedly) firing that is what comes out? Conservatism = support of business cartels?
I apologize. You are not a dolt. Simpleton, yes.
…nom…………..reaching for the grey goose
[198] Ben
But the years where there were no freeze, the step up was done regardless of the performance of the teacher right? Not demonizing the teachers or union, just trying to understand the process.
You can’t even use the outdated, simplistic to a fault, ignorant political labels correctly.
The penalties will be enforced by individuals that adhere to the same principal. If linked to corruption in any way, you will be executed. It will solve most of our current problems. People would really think twice about doing anything shady. Use technology to keep the enforces in check. Anytime they are working a body camera must be turned on to dictate every single move while on the clock. Subject these workers to once a month lie detector tests. Build lots of data on their monthly results so you really know when their test results are off. You can think of more ways to watch over them with technology growing by the day.
joyce says:
July 28, 2015 at 7:00 pm
Way to answer 1 part of my question, Idiot. Who will enforce the penalties? What happens if they don’t enforce them?
Yes, I associate conservatives as pro business and anti Union/worker. Call me a simpleton. Why you getting so mad? Teach me instead of throwing names.
leftwing says:
July 28, 2015 at 7:04 pm
“stern proponent of conservatism…”
Can you tumble any further down the rabbit hole?
So with 80 billion neurons (allegedly) firing that is what comes out? Conservatism = support of business cartels?
I apologize. You are not a dolt. Simpleton, yes.
Because it’s been tried a thousand times, and you continue to respond to things you made up claiming other’s have said them. It’s clearly intentional.
The Great Pumpkin says:
July 28, 2015 at 7:18 pm
Teach me instead of throwing names.
“Teach me instead of throwing names.”
More beneficial and easier to teach a pig to waltz.
You get to know people on here based on their posts. Was I wrong for thinking left wing is far right on the political spectrum? He sure sounds like it. Usually, hard core conservatives think alike.
joyce says:
July 28, 2015 at 7:21 pm
Because it’s been tried a thousand times, and you continue to respond to things you made up claiming other’s have said them. It’s clearly intentional.
The Great Pumpkin says:
July 28, 2015 at 7:18 pm
Teach me instead of throwing names.
#202….freeze, ha, our district switched from numbers to letter steps back to numbers and essentially dropped 2 steps, a 10 year teacher is now step 8,
198. It’s a given that tenure is on the way out.
190. Teaching is so mediocre in the realm of pay that you are talking about someone having to spend ten years to make say $70-80k.
But the years where there were no freeze, the step up was done regardless of the performance of the teacher right? Not demonizing the teachers or union, just trying to understand the process.
Yes. A step system has nothing to do with performance. When people get steps, everyone gets it. When a step gets frozen, everyone’s is.
Teaching is so mediocre in the realm of pay that you are talking about someone having to spend ten years to make say $70-80k.
With just a bachelors, more like 20. If you have a masters or PhD, closer to 10. The pay is mediocre for the masses. There’s a few lucky ones here and there. Science people are fortunate in that there is a true supply shortage going right now so new hires are being brought in at elevated steps.
That person that you know of in some district that gets 100k for sitting on his ass that has you up in arms. It pisses off every teacher at the workplace ten times more than you.
Read this as it contains some very interesting points:
http://studentsmatter.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/SM_McKinsey-Report_09.29.111.pdf
Essex,
It was interesting the last time you posted it. I found the stats how larger class sizes do not impact learning the most interesting finding. Funny how the unions always ignore that finding.
Exactly. I find it repulsive when teachers are attacked or regular joe govt workers. That kind of money is pathetic, anyone who thinks it’s lucrative must be stuck in a terrible job. Take away the pension and the benefits, and I have no idea who would go to college to become a teacher. Something wrong with that.
Essex says:
July 28, 2015 at 8:43 pm
190. Teaching is so mediocre in the realm of pay that you are talking about someone having to spend ten years to make say $70-80k.
Amazing, the way some people talk about teacher salaries, you would think they all make a 100,000 dollars. After putting in 25 years in a professional occupation, if you are not making 6 figures, something is wrong.
Ben says:
July 28, 2015 at 8:46 pm
Teaching is so mediocre in the realm of pay that you are talking about someone having to spend ten years to make say $70-80k.
With just a bachelors, more like 20. If you have a masters or PhD, closer to 10. The pay is mediocre for the masses. There’s a few lucky ones here and there. Science people are fortunate in that there is a true supply shortage going right now so new hires are being brought in at elevated steps.
That person that you know of in some district that gets 100k for sitting on his ass that has you up in arms. It pisses off every teacher at the workplace ten times more than you.
It was interesting the last time you posted it. I found the stats how larger class sizes do not impact learning the most interesting finding. Funny how the unions always ignore that finding.
Depends on what numbers you are talking about. My class sizes usually are around 24 students. I once had a class size of 14. I was able to teach them more effectively because I spent a lot more time instructing them individually. The numbers on the AP test also supported this.
I think if you gave me anywhere between 18 and 24 students, its a wash and you’ll see similar results. You give me significantly less, and I’ll bury those results. You give me more, student performance does drop off. There’s a happy range and it’s in the best interest of the kids to not move beyond it.
[201] left,
Sorry. Just got back from sucking down ‘gansetts in Davis Sq. with my BIL. We were the oldest people there and the only ones who weren’t gay.
Socialized debt and privatized profits. The American way.
for joyce…
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2015/07/27/cop-caught-dash-cam-threatening-blow-hole-through-driver-head/eyZbmPp22kuuacwx8hHe2M/story.html?p1=Must_Reads#comments
[221] Phoenix
Medford, or as we say, “Meffa” when we are mocking them. Know it well (looking across lake at it while I type) and I’m not the least bit surprised. Joyce would hate it there.
CND,
It is absolutely amazing the the things small cameras have brought to light.
Also amazing to see how angry some get over the smallest things.
Too many people with too much anger inside. Scary.