From the APP:
Trump tax plan kills key deductions, wallops NJ homeowners
New Jersey taxpayers would lose key deductions under a proposal unveiled this week by President Donald Trump: property taxes and state income taxes, experts said.
The tax reform plan would hit New Jerseyans hard, they said, forcing them to give up rare benefits they received for living in a high-tax state.
“That will really sting New Jersey residents,” said Anthony Nitti, a tax partner with WithumSmith+Brown.
Trump’s tax reform plan is designed to improve economic growth through a simpler system that includes fewer tax brackets and lower corporate taxes.
It’s a bid to overhaul the U.S. tax system for the first time since 1986 – a task that seems every bit as complicated as Congress’ failed attempt to repeal the Affordable Care Act, commonly known as Obamacare.
The proposal already has run into opposition, particularly in New Jersey. The state’s real estate lobby warned that eliminating the property tax deduction would cause home values to plummet as much as 10 percent.
“Right now there’s kind of a basket to what goes into the affordability (of homeownership), and unfortunately in New Jersey we have the dubious honor of (having) the highest real estate tax in the country,” said Bob Oppenheimer, president of the New Jersey Association of Realtors.
“That would certainly put ice water on homeownership versus renting, and actually give … New Jersey a clear cut edge to renting.”
…
How it shakes out, though, isn’t clear. Trump has yet to provide details on what incomes would fall into what tax brackets.“They want to lower taxes for the middle class, but nobody has said what the middle class is,” said Dawn Greenberg, tax principal at Cowan Gunteski & Co. in Toms River.
With the elimination of all but two itemized deductions, though, some New Jersey taxpayers could have to carry a heavier tax burden for the nation.
Everyday, it becomes more and more clear that Trump is working hard to make sure Nancy Pelosi is speaker of the house again.
Oh, and LOL at yet more trickle down bullish!t. Time to go long on guillotine factories.
Middle class? Maybe upper middle class will be “slaughtered”. Regular middle class people would consider them rich. I don’t get the hype. My deductions last year seem to be less than the new proposed standard deduction. Plus a possible reduction in rates? I don’t get why people are freaking out.
Trump’s Health Secretary already spent $400,000 on chartered planes. Probably needed them to drain that DC swamp.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-26/sebelius-calls-price-s-private-chartered-plane-travel-stunning
People can’t perform simple math and don’t pay attention to the nuances of their tax forms. As a result they are just parroting back what they are told
D-FENS says:
September 29, 2017 at 8:06 am
Middle class? Maybe upper middle class will be “slaughtered”. Regular middle class people would consider them rich. I don’t get the hype. My deductions last year seem to be less than the new proposed standard deduction. Plus a possible reduction in rates? I don’t get why people are freaking out.
I hought people took pride in paying high income and property taxes. It’s the price they are willing to pay to keep the riffraff away.
I believe quite a few people living in those blue ribbon towns rely on their federal tax refund to just get by, particularly the ones who stretched to buy a pos cape or a ranch buin the 400-500k range. Having their taxes go up a few thousand dollars combined with needing to replace a car or furnace will push them over the edge. Their days of kicking the can down the road will be numbered
Running joke in Washington :
Q. What do the House and Senate have in common?
A. They both have about 98 useless members.
@nytimes
“I don’t benefit,” Trump said of his proposal to cut taxes. Our analysis found the plan could save him $1.1 billion.
Wait, the NYT said it could save him $1 billion? Weren’t they claiming he wasn’t even worth a billion last year?
@ianbremmer
$7,500: How much the average American taxpayer has paid to fund wars in Afghanistan, Iraq & Syria since 9/11.
$1.5 trillion: Collective cost to taxpayers by October of next year.
$5 trillion: Total post-9/11 bill, inc. classified spending.
How much are you worth?
Blue Ribbon Teacher says:
September 29, 2017 at 8:23 am
Wait, the NYT said it could save him $1 billion? Weren’t they claiming he wasn’t even worth a billion last year?
It’s not about deductions, it’s about whether your net taxes paid go up or down. Now if you made the boneheaded move of buying a highly taxed house on an undesirable highway…
New Jersey taxpayers would lose key deductions under a proposal unveiled this week by President Donald Trump: property taxes and state income taxes, experts said.
For me, it will be slaughter. What is the benefit of this tax plan. For sure, the deficit will grow wider. By why should I guy like Trump care? He’s made a living off of the abuse of weak bankruptcy laws.
Here is the sell: Corporate taxes are lower which should spur enough job growth to recover the amount of corporate taxes cut. Anytime someone says that they’ll “grow” their way back over time, immediately shove a living snake up their @ss. It NEVER happens. Politicians should never be able to borrow from the future. I’d rather they just float a massive bond to cover the shortfall. At least they would be forced to pay it back. The second problem with the sell is that lower corporate taxes are not a guarantee of future corporate spending. Considering that most companies have mainly increased their earnings over the last decade by reducing headcount and offshoring, who is not to say that they will just call the break in taxes increased earnings. Worse yet, we need not take much liberty to assume the vast majority of these gains will go to those receiving the largest tax breaks on their personal income tax (the 1%).
Why are we even doing this? If it’s not broke, don’t fix it. Oh yeah, we need to spur job growth when unemployment is near an all time low and markets at all time highs. AND lets borrow from the future to make this happen.
Finally, the orchestration of this dance has been brilliant. As the world continues to make fun of the bumbling and idiot tweeting of our president, he is slipping through the greatest transfer of wealth ever from the middle to the upper class. WHY IS THE MIDDLE CLASS PAYING MORE AND UPPER CLASS PAYING LESS?
If the DEM position is that we learned already that trickle down doesn’t work, then this wealth transfer bill will pass as easily as an HRC defeat. Someone among the DEMs needs to stop reading WAPO and see this for what it is and start making some noise. This will never happen though since so many of them will benefit from this reform.
I’m guessing (and hopeful) that people will see this plan as expensive, a complete waste of time and that approving anything that Trump wants will hurt their own party (Dem or Rep). If I were running the DNC, I would use this backwards tax plan as the linchpin to getting back some power at the mid-term elections. Instead, they’ll surely keep focusing on immigration, climate change and which bathroom Fran can use.
Define “middle class” in terms of income.
For the family of four making less than or near six figures….it would seem to be a win. Isn’t this exactly what Trump promised?
“WHY IS THE MIDDLE CLASS PAYING MORE AND UPPER CLASS PAYING LESS?”
Standard deduction going up, Personal exemption goes away though.
Forget class divisions for a moment, which sounds an awful lot like a scripted defense.
What benefit is there for the 1% (and please don’t start arguing with me about the fact that it’s really the .05% or the .01%), which has reaped nearly all of the gains since the Great Recession, to receive a massive break?
What is the REASON for this tax reform?
Answer these questions honestly. Don’t answer them as someone who stands to lose the biggest break.
THEN we can argue about class divisions. The truth is, the income gap is slowly turning this country into Brazil. This tax plan simply accelerates the divide between the haves and the have nots. The crumbs go to the sub 100K class. The giant slices, to the over 300K class. The rest, struggling to stay out of the bottom are pushed further down the ladder. Maybe it’s 150K to 350K. It really doesn’t matter. Why are the rich getting yet another break?
Who here takes the standard deduction with a family AGI between 150 and 300K? None of us. Stop fooling yourself D-Fens. Crumbs! The savings for the rich are exponential. Why am I paying more?
I would think the doubling of the standard deduction for many is actually going to help or at least not hurt. What am I missing? It would seem the mtg deduction will be worth less too outside of the expensive areas as well as property taxes.
Lib true but many of the wealthy elite on both sides believe we are exactly the ones who should pay. The biggest breaks should go to them because they are the elites and deem themselves special. The poor lower middle class will get their crumbs and we the ones they find contemptible will pay.
My family AGI will probably closer to 150K this year. It was much higher when Gator worked. Without the details of the bill even spelled out yet, I will bet you the difference between what I paid last year at over 100K more AGI versus what I’ll have to pay this year against the increased break you will receive. I paid the Feds 30K last year (yeah, I planned it that way). I bet this year, even with 100K less in income, that I will still be paying the feds near that 30K number. I itemized nearly 100K in deductions last year. This year, subtract 30K from that total just for the property tax removal. My tax rate is going to go way way up if I take the doubled standard deduction. How about you? How much did you itemize?
I’m going to go puke now. They could lower taxes by $7500 for the avg american taxpayer just by eliminating the cost of nonsense wars. On this savings alone, my property taxes would go down by almost 50%. What a joke.
Grab them by the puzzy says:
September 29, 2017 at 8:23 am
@ianbremmer
$7,500: How much the average American taxpayer has paid to fund wars in Afghanistan, Iraq & Syria since 9/11.
$1.5 trillion: Collective cost to taxpayers by October of next year.
$5 trillion: Total post-9/11 bill, inc. classified spending.
Military spending…..the gift that keeps on giving.
I don’t think you guys realize how many people itemize. Once you hit like 150K it’s close to 80% I think. Even with the doubling of the standard deduction, it doesn’t matter if it still doesn’t make sense to take it. 30K is a lot of deduction to lose when your AGI is 150K. Even 12 or 14K would be a lot for those who don’t own multiple properties. For the rich dude, what is losing their 20K property tax deduction when they are getting a 3% deduction off the top on their 400K in income? Middle class screwed, upper class wins, to what end?
Yet, the feds won’t give us money to update the infrastructure between nj and nyc? Where the fu!k are their priorities? On economics alone, it’s insane to divert that much money to foreign wars when your infrastructure at home has been neglected for this long.
Forget wars. That’s not changing. Focus on the transfer of wealth. Not wasteful spending which can never be changed.
One Reason is to simplify the tax code. I’ve always found deducting every dopey little thing absurd. No “middle class” guy is buying a $150k Tesla and claiming an EV tax credit. They just buy a used 4 cylinder Hyundai like every other middle class cubicle dweller. I like the idea of my tax return being one page and being able to do it in 20 minutes. Why is it so complicated? So much time and effort is expended modifying our behaviors and purchases for every little thing for the next almighty deduction. Less federal influence over my life? Yeah…I’m all for that.
The other is to help small and medium sized business (non multinational corporations).
States do this stuff all the time right? They compete by lowering taxes for businesses to get companies to move there. How many times have we talked about businesses leaving NJ for this exact reason right here on this board? Lowering the rate businesses pay makes the US more competitive on a global scale. Multinationals have all done their inversions and have avoided paying taxes here already anyway.
I’m going to get murdered. I’d have no problem paying it if it was across the board, but I’m going to be paying drastically more to give some corporations and 1%ers some more money…..wtf is wrong with people? How greedy are they? They really have to lobby the govt to save more money on taxes at the expense of others that have less than them? Just disgusting. How much money do you need?
Libturd sporting Tiger Wood says:
September 29, 2017 at 9:28 am
I don’t think you guys realize how many people itemize. Once you hit like 150K it’s close to 80% I think. Even with the doubling of the standard deduction, it doesn’t matter if it still doesn’t make sense to take it. 30K is a lot of deduction to lose when your AGI is 150K. Even 12 or 14K would be a lot for those who don’t own multiple properties. For the rich dude, what is losing their 20K property tax deduction when they are getting a 3% deduction off the top on their 400K in income? Middle class screwed, upper class wins, to what end?
“States do this stuff all the time right? They compete by lowering taxes for businesses to get companies to move there.”
And it always backfires.
You can lower the rates businesses pay and become more competitive without giving a tax break to the rich!
And how are you helping small businesses when you are significantly increasing what the owner pays in income tax. They will now be less likely to open a business with less itemized deductions.
Simplification? Try again. You can do this without lowering the tax rates on the wealthy. You can do this without generating greater deficits.
Lib, I get you are emotional because it may hit you hard personally but my read of this is not that the middle pays more and upper pays less. Far from it.
That assessment, as well as yours, of course depends where one draws the line between middle and upper class. Let’s look at that.
Even at $200k of household income you are in the top 8% locally. That means 92% of the people around you *in this area* earn less. I would argue being in the top 8% of anything is upper class.
For further reference, 95% of the entire US population earn $214k or less.
If you earn $200k or so in a high tax state will you get jammed up? Yeah, but nationwide and even locally that person is in a different strata of earnings. Not going to generate many tears except from your neighbors and the local news.
The vast majority of the 95% of Americans earning less than that amount will be helped though, especially through the doubling of the standard deduction. Seems to me this proposal is actually very middle class friendly.
Our perception of ‘middle class’ here is a little warped. In the towns in which most of our posters reside a household income of $200k barely buys what most of the rest of the country recognizes as a middle class lifestyle. That’s not their problem.
As an aside, wait until the barely middle class local NJ income of $200k is run through college FAFSA with a little bit of home equity. It gets even better guys, lol.
Lib we get slaughtered every year. We have just the property/maintenance deduction on a co-op we own but don’t live in and that’s it. It’s paid for so no mtg deduction. Can’t claim kids any more. I hate when they say the rich should pay more because it means us.
Try again.
We are witnessing nothing less than a tax break for the rich. Everything else here is noise and crumbs. It is reprehensible and irresponsible. This is not open to interpretation. Hopefully, like every other reprehensible act that Trump has attempted for which there are too many to list and for which the country should be grateful that the congress and senate has not allowed to pass. They will see that this too is a train wreck in the making. Unfortunately, since this one benefits them, unlike ACA repeal or immigration bans, I am not so sure they will vote with their conscience.
That’s my thinking. If a family earns $75K the most they can be taxed on is $25K, and their tax rate is only 12% of that (plus they still get the MID, just not state and local tax). I think people are forgetting that the proposed bottom tax bracket is 0%, not 12%.
Define “middle class” in terms of income.
For the family of four making less than or near six figures….it would seem to be a win. Isn’t this exactly what Trump promised?
Left we stopped filing fafsa after the first semester with my oldest it was a joke. Just paid the tuition on the quarterly payment plan. What should make people in NJ worry is if they ever pass the pension obligations on to the towns.
So everyone here is good with paying more as the top gets another 3% break. I’ll shut up then. Maybe people will be up in arms once property values get killed around here to the point where renting makes more sense. On the bright side, I’ll be able to increase the already insane rent even higher which should help compensate me somewhat. Honestly, this will probably accelerate my departure from the area. Let’s hope there are not that many others like me around for the sake of NJ. As if it wasn’t expensive enough.
Brilliantly stated. If it’s not broke…..
You have to ask questions as to why they are pushing this. Doesn’t make much sense to put the govt in more debt to give individuals (1% and corporations) already swimming in cash, some more money, in the hopes that they invest in the creation of jobs. Wishful thinking!
“Why are we even doing this? If it’s not broke, don’t fix it. Oh yeah, we need to spur job growth when unemployment is near an all time low and markets at all time highs. AND lets borrow from the future to make this happen.
Finally, the orchestration of this dance has been brilliant. As the world continues to make fun of the bumbling and idiot tweeting of our president, he is slipping through the greatest transfer of wealth ever from the middle to the upper class. WHY IS THE MIDDLE CLASS PAYING MORE AND UPPER CLASS PAYING LESS?”
“What should make people in NJ worry is if they ever pass the pension obligations on to the towns.”
Can’t happen. The numbers are too phenomenal. We can no longer put a dent in it without massive reforms from current members. Not just new members. The hole is really that big.
You guys will see this when Murphy tries. And now, he might have to tax us on top of the financial hit that Trump will be making to discretionary income in NJ. Good luck Murphy. What do you plan to cut? Same problem as everyone before him. If he raises taxes to fill the hole, it is political suicide and massive pain for NJ’s barely recovering economy.
Remember there used to be someone here who went by “Happy Renter”? Maybe I’ll take over that handle. Time to start a business.
Kevin Warsh – new Fed Chair.
Rather than saying “the rich” should pay more or less from the current point of today’s moving taxation target, someone explain to me what the just right level of tax for “the rich” is (as a % of income). And also define what level of income defines “the rich”.
Because many people, without even knowing what rate “the rich” pay in taxes, always answer that the correct answer is “more”. Which sounds like an emotional rather than rational response.
“We are witnessing nothing less than a tax break for the rich. Everything else here is noise and crumbs. It is reprehensible and irresponsible. This is not open to interpretation. ”
Lib, calm down. You’re going to have a coronary. Never heard you throw out facts and reason before.
Lib I am not good with it. We pay an outrageous amount in taxes in my opinion as it is. All I am saying is it will benefit a lot of people outside this area and or lower incomes etc. And based on that it just may pass.
And Pumps, since we finally agree on something, I’ll take you off ignore temporarily. Companies have been flush with cash for most of the last two decades. Why? Because they used to spend it on job growth and innovation and instead found growing earnings is much cheaper if you can outsource and/or cut heads. If that article CHIFI linked to a few weeks ago about the damage that index and sector ETFs is doing to job growth is true, then it’s a double whammy. Companies don’t need more cash! Companies need more people to buy their products and services. This does not happen when all of the spoils are flowing to the rich. This tax plan is truly a joke. Yes, I am hit especially hard due to the fact I took some risk and bought rental property. Who would ever do that now? I’ll answer this for you. The rich! Because this change in the tax law helps them where it hurts us. As always. I’m done arguing. If this passes, I really, really, hope I am completely misguided and wrong. Judging Trump’s track record so far, I highly doubt that I am.
Good post leftwing. I agree with Lib but see both sides.
Murphy will take all the money NJ towns and cities have in local banks and put it in his new state run bank to capitalize it. Then it’s loans out the wazoo…and more debt on the books. People won’t know the difference because we’ll be flush with cash for the next 4 – 8 years.
Lib you are probably right on the pension issue but I would not be surprised if at least more of it was placed on the towns.
No coronary here. Trust me. I am fine. Just disgusted. And I know how much the rich pay. Every time I see a tax return of an elected official (like Corzine) I realize that they pay way too little in this country. My brother b1tches about how much he pays all of the time too. But in the end, it won’t really matter. When we are Brazil. Carnivale anyone?
“Murphy will take all the money NJ towns and cities have in local banks and put it in his new state run bank to capitalize it”
Welcome to Wall Street Alchemy. Where you somehow get to profit off of the back of the taxpayer who pays the interest on the municipal debt. Keep on electing Wall Street guys and you get politicians who have less and less a fear of debt. Heck, debt is how they make most of their money.
Bottom line is what I have been saying for a while. The vast majority of NJ residents are kidding themselves on lifestyles.
Taking the subsidy away for the few feel good items you get from SALT – extra policing, better DPWs, garage door pickup for your garbage – exposes the true cost of living here and what you get for it. People are batsh1t crazy for earning what they do here and thinking they have it all.
Lib, your $150k income puts you at the 88th percentile nationally. You are a top 12%er. With those stats got to stop whining dude. It’s unbecoming. YOU ARE THE WEALTHY to the rest of the nation.
Lib how will your rental property negatively affect you? Is it losing the property tax deduction I assume? At some point will need to have a chat with my accountant. I don’t do mine. Just rather pay and be done with it.
Here’s my last statement and then I will let the tax issue go for a while.
People need to absolutely pay attention to discretionary income. One can try and argue that the rich will no longer create the jobs when the government is making it too risky and expensive. But it the poor and the middle class that are buying the products and services. Without them, the rich don’t get richer because they can’t make investment income (with it’s beautiful tax treatment). The balance between how much is too much taxes on the rich versus job and economic growth has swayed back and forth a lot over the last 100 years. My personal opinion is that the rich should pay a bit more. I have in laws who are European and you just don’t see the Camden’s and the Newark’s (or the Detroits) over there. The balance between the rich and the poor is much better. And everyone is doing just fine. Or you could go to Mexico or Brazil or even Russia and you can see what happens when the rich don’t share. It’s really about discretionary dollars you know. You need to make sure the middlish classes have enough to spend to keep the job growth going. Otherwise, the rich gotta move and it’s not much cheaper anywhere else that’s nice. And believe me, if you have three cars in your driveway with a combined worth of 200K, it won’t hurt you that much to have one of them worth 25K less. Especially if it’s the difference between someone pumping your gas for you or having to go to the bullet proof window to pay for the gas after pumping it yourself.
Exactly, this is what I have been saying for years on this blog, but was accused of class warfare and trying to put my hand in the pocket of the rich.
Where the hell is the growth in the economy going to come from if companies don’t invest in their employees? Where? Do a dance and hope it starts pouring from the sky? Without putting extra dollars in the consumers hands through labor, it’s impossible to have significant growth in the economy….simply impossible.
You can only increase earnings on offshoring/elimination of workers/non-raises for the short term. You can not keep that up into infinite. It makes me sick that this mindset obsessed with short term profits has taken over the business community. It’s a fuc!ing disaster long term.
“And Pumps, since we finally agree on something, I’ll take you off ignore temporarily. Companies have been flush with cash for most of the last two decades. Why? Because they used to spend it on job growth and innovation and instead found growing earnings is much cheaper if you can outsource and/or cut heads. If that article CHIFI linked to a few weeks ago about the damage that index and sector ETFs is doing to job growth is true, then it’s a double whammy. Companies don’t need more cash! Companies need more people to buy their products and services. This does not happen when all of the spoils are flowing to the rich. This tax plan is truly a joke.”
“Lib, your $150k income puts you at the 88th percentile nationally. You are a top 12%er. With those stats got to stop whining dude. It’s unbecoming. YOU ARE THE WEALTHY to the rest of the nation.”
Believe me, I know this. But you are not factoring in the cost of living around here when you make such statements, though I know I’m still doing quite well. It’s not about ME paying more. It’s about the ultra rich paying LESS. This is why I say that you need to stop with the class warfare or fighting over where you draw the lines. The RICH will pay significantly less. It’s the ONLY real reason Trump is passing this reform. You are OK with this? I am not!
Single earners in the top ten percent of income nationally owning multiple properties up in arms about a tax proposal that doubles the standard deduction for the vast majority of earners beneath them…..speechless.
Especially when the ‘hit’ you are ‘suffering’ is because your state and local governments spend an excess of money (i) on providing services most of the rest of the country doesn’t get and (ii) irresponsibly.
Hey guys, think about this…..under this tax proposal who is getting ‘hurt’ and who will be ‘better off’. You, or your tenants?
Never thought I’d see the day I would appreciate Pumps…at least he is open about his disdain for socio-economic classes beneath him…..
Holy crap. It’s 10:30. Smells you all later, I have some serious work to do. Today, for budgeting purposes, I need to figure out the exact percentage of work (and time) that my teams spend on transactional work, versus the time the India team spends on our insurance, ballot, health care and mutual fund work. Good times. ODBC, you are my savior! Query time.
“The RICH will pay significantly less. It’s the ONLY real reason Trump is passing this reform. You are OK with this? I am not!”
You’re missing my point. Although you may not feel it, YOU ARE THE WEALTHY.
Single wage earner, top 12% nationally, home owned, rental property owned. Seriously dude?
Can’t wait for Grim to weigh in. He’s a rich mother fukcer!
It’s really as simple as that. I have no problem sticking a 60% tax on someone making 10 times more than the avg individual in a year. You are already making 10 times more than the avg, so you can afford to live off 40% of your pay. You are still living it up. For example, let’s say avg family income is 50,000. If you are making 10 times that, which is 500,000, don’t tell me you can’t survive on over 200k cash a year. Enough with the greed. You are still making 4 times in take home pay than the avg family before they even pay taxes.
“And believe me, if you have three cars in your driveway with a combined worth of 200K, it won’t hurt you that much to have one of them worth 25K less. Especially if it’s the difference between someone pumping your gas for you or having to go to the bullet proof window to pay for the gas after pumping it yourself.”
I get it leftwing. I pay more of my 150K in taxes. Let’s see how much more the dude earning 450K and higher pays. Does he pay more too. Even if he’s from Jersey? I doubt it. Because his discretionary income does not take a hit like mine does. There’s rich, like me. And then there’s the ruling class. We must always keep those lines clear.
Four times might not sound like much, but do that for 10 years and you have 40 times more money in a decade than the avg family, and that’s paying a 60% tax rate. Now you know why income inequality is out of control. You have individuals making 300 times the avg individual in a given year, and they are only paying 15% tax rates. WTF? That’s a recipe for disaster under capitalism in the long term. How can capitalism survive long term under these conditions?
I’ll more than gladly pay higher taxes to help these people, but I want the guys above me to pay at the same rate or more than I do. I think that’s the point lib is making and you are missing. Why is this only put on us? Why do the richest of the rich get another tax break? It’s insanity.
“Hey guys, think about this…..under this tax proposal who is getting ‘hurt’ and who will be ‘better off’. You, or your tenants?”
Don’t disagree Lib but now you are going all Bernie on me.
Yeah, it’s the billionaires’ fault. 540 people in America out of 315 million. 540 people causing all the pain for the other 314,999,460. Uh, OK.
Or like that “Millionaire’s Tax”. Sounds great, a million dollars a year IS a lot of money. But wait, why does the tax start at $250k…….
What’s the point? You can’t hit the uber-wealthy hard enough to cover the tab for everyone else. The math doesn’t work, there is not enough of them. Any support for spending must ultimately come out of people like you.
What’s the remedy? Cut the spending.
Funny, before everyone got all up in arms because their personal pocket books got hit the biggest topic of economic discussion here was how inefficient and wasteful our state and local governments were. All the Fed SALT elimination does is expose that fault line. *That* spending remains the problem.
You want to fix the issue? Stop pitting the $75k earner against the $200k, $400k and $1m+ earners and use your energy to shut down the government spending troughs, at all levels.
Lib, thanks for speaking up I have the same sentiment but this also seems to be the way the system always is. the system is designed to keep the aspirational class out of the affluent class. 3/4 of those in the 1% of income will not stay there. The inheritance tax is designed to destroy small and mid-sized businesses, so they can be absorbed by the elite. If you have 20m chances are you will pay inheritance tax, if you have 100m chances are you pay less than the guy who has 20m because you can afford to avoid it. Worst part of the proposed tax plan is the budget hole. the feds need to get the deficit in order, corporate tax reform needs to happen. The only thing that is right is that there is entirely too much gamesmanship in the tax code. Fixing NJ’s property tax mess is easy, stop funding abbott districts(which by all rights and means have commercial ratables, where as most microsized towns in NJ have nill). Murphy is dead wrong we need to reduce the pensions and going forward replace them–no more defined benefits–the government is incapable of being responsible managing money, hence why the idea of a state bank is insane.
For corporate taxation we need simplify to allow smaller companies to not be destroyed by 35% taxes when GE(or any giant corp) can game it so they only pay 10%. Also we need to join the rest of the world and use a territorial taxation scheme.
The only way Trump’s tax plan works is if we can actually eliminate 80% of the IRS and the private expenditures on preparing/avoiding taxes, which would probably in the short term puts some people out of work but in the long term they will move to more productive fields for the economy.
“What’s the point? You can’t hit the uber-wealthy hard enough to cover the tab for everyone else. The math doesn’t work, there is not enough of them. Any support for spending must ultimately come out of people like you. ”
I agree there’s a spending issue too. But if it was that big of an issue, the ultra rich would be complaining about it too. And I’m not offended about being compared to Bernie. The truth is, I am more soc1alist than anything else. My problem is with how ineff1c1ently OUR government is run. Though, I do believe that this country is so resource and 1nnovat1on rich that ph1losoph1cally, we could all be doing much, much better. That’s the Bernie message and I think it rings true throughout the majority. But the rich will always shut a guy like Bernie down. They have the resources to do it. I was surprised he was not taken out.
Damn…forgot soc1alist triggers the mod. There goes 5 minutes of my day thanks to the drug companies.
Jcer I agree. The system is designed so that that the the aspirational class as you define it gets to do the heavy lifting. We buy into it by believing we have it better in this part of the country with our so called superior services but we don’t.
Libtard,
You said to stop fighting over where to draw the lines and then you said we must keep those lines clear. You can’t have one without the other.
Lib that is exactly why I wanted Bernie to win given the choices we had. He would have scared the krap out of the elites and we might have gotten some real fundamental change. Could we have done any worse than what we have now? I don’t think so.
OK…you got me Joyce. What’s your take? I am reasonable. I think it’s a bit of a mix of all of our takes. 3b and Leftwing make some excellent points as do I and the rest of the peanut gallery. I also think NJ is completely effed up for more reasons than I have time to list them.
So what is the purpose of this tax reform, Joyce?
3b…Bernie was somehow to Soc1alist for even me, but I agree that it would have made for a much better experience than Trump is currently.
“And I’m not offended about being compared to Bernie. The truth is, I am more soc1alist than anything else.”
And if Bernie were ever able to be elected it would have been very interesting to see how he would have defined ‘billionaire’ to support his policies.
Me thinks it would not have had ten digits.
For what he proposed my guess is your guy’s combined primary/rental equity would have thrown you into ‘billionaire’ class and a whole new tax level lol.
Cut spending. Stop the internecine warfare among producers.
Also, why can’t you continue to deduct the rental prop. taxes as an expense against rental income?
Nice commentary fellas.
Wow. We just created a new class on the board today. The “Aspirational” class. The rest of you are just lazy middle class slobs.
3b we have no choice, we can be lazy and live like the rabble or bust our butts to live somewhat better but the truly rich and powerful need to make sure you don’t climb too high, they need you to be hungry and don’t want you to compete for the assets they want. They(aristocrats, royalty, elites) need the professional class, without us they’d be dead in the water and they know it, who will run/design everything for them without us. The professional class largely aligns with the wealthy because the lower and lower middle class do not see the distinction between the “rich” and the professional class, this manipulation of public opinion is also quite intentional much like the racial divisions that keep the poor fighting among themselves rather than directing anger where it probably should go.
“Also, why can’t you continue to deduct the rental prop. taxes as an expense against rental income?”
I’m really hoping you can. I just figured out was out. Not enough detail yet to make that determination.
Well said JCer…by the way.
Jcer yes well said. And so true..
“…the truly rich and powerful need to make sure you don’t climb too high, they need you to be hungry and don’t want you to compete for the assets they want…”
LOLOLOLOL.
I’ve had meaningful personal time with individuals worth ten figures (liquid). Two of the most interesting were when I advised them on selling their companies (each company was three generation family founded and owned, one went for $2B, one was a 40% stake for $12B).
Over the course of those 18 month processes many interesting comments were made.
You’re right, I often inadvertently walked in on confidential meetings where they were plotting how to defraud the professional class and steal their assets because that’s how they made their money. They were cloistered in a cellar, very Medieval looking. Illuminated only by candles, they were in robes and wearing the skulls of animals as caps. I was really embarrassed, all I was doing was trying to find a good first growth Bordeaux.
LOLOLOL. You are absolutely clueless.
D-FENS the aspirational class are people who are well off, good jobs, good salaries, big house, nice cars. We are talking people who are millionaires(largely on paper due to expensive house, retirement accounts and some personal savings) with annual income of anywhere from 250k-750k that is made by working. I’m talking about doctors, lawyers, executives, et al. The system is designed so they spend 25k a year leasing an S-Class, etc so they basically have to work very hard to maintain that lifestyle and moving higher in the chain becomes increasingly difficult as the government starts to take $0.50 for every dollar you make and it’s harder to make those dollars.
“The system is designed so they spend 25k a year leasing an S-Class”
Perhaps the dumbest comment in a long while.
Only a certain mindset can view spending $25k on an uber-luxury car as being a fault of the system.
Quit while you’re ahead. Your doing a Wile E Coyote down the cliff of stupidity.
LW,
Yes, the lease comment was bad… but the idea that government policies support the wealthy at the expense of others is spot on. There need not be an overt conspiracy.
Yeah, not really sure how that works……
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/13/top-1-pay-nearly-half-of-federal-income-taxes.html
Well said. Sums it up perfectly.
“3b we have no choice, we can be lazy and live like the rabble or bust our butts to live somewhat better but the truly rich and powerful need to make sure you don’t climb too high, they need you to be hungry and don’t want you to compete for the assets they want. They(aristocrats, royalty, elites) need the professional class, without us they’d be dead in the water and they know it, who will run/design everything for them without us. The professional class largely aligns with the wealthy because the lower and lower middle class do not see the distinction between the “rich” and the professional class, this manipulation of public opinion is also quite intentional much like the racial divisions that keep the poor fighting among themselves rather than directing anger where it probably should go.”
And there is the Pumpkin, rolling down the hill right behind you………
I hope I’m not at the bottom already. :P
leftwing,
Yep, Pumpkin is just trying to find another excuse for his mediocre income which is actually due to being stuck on the bottom rung of the corporate finance profession, lacking ambition and talent, now probably getting managed by people younger than him, while he tells himself it’s a lifestyle choice.
Lib, you always get a pass brother. Understand it hurts.
More fun in the pipeline, your guy’s tuition is going move from, what, $2500 at the NFP Blues to $7000 for T1 Colonials?
I stay in touch with my childhood best friend (and goalie), both our kids play. He still lives where we grew up. T1, $1500……
Arbitrage. Find a way to take revenue/income off this area without actually having to live in it. Best pathway.
Left perhaps exaggerated but their has always been contempt by the elites for what at one time would have been termed the bourgeoisie. We are neither here nor there. What they don’t want is for the bourgeoisie if you will to align with the poor. I would argue that today we are taken advantage by both extremes. So while the wealthy or Huber wealthy pay the majority of the taxes they still come out far ahead. Company pensions gone free or cheap company health care gone. Yet the uber wealthy have more money than ever in spite of the taxes they pay.
Are you mentally challenged? It’s called human nature. Their greed takes over and they try their best to make more and more at everyone else’s expense even though they don’t need it. You know the type, just sold their business for 12 billion and crying about the tax that must be paid. WHEN IS IT ENOUGH IS THE REAL QUESTION. No conspiracy, Mr. Ignorant. Just good old human greed.
Now I don’t feel so bad for all the crap I take here. To see you rag on Lib and Jcer makes me realize who you really are.
“You’re right, I often inadvertently walked in on confidential meetings where they were plotting how to defraud the professional class and steal their assets because that’s how they made their money. They were cloistered in a cellar, very Medieval looking. Illuminated only by candles, they were in robes and wearing the skulls of animals as caps. I was really embarrassed, all I was doing was trying to find a good first growth Bordeaux.
LOLOLOL. You are absolutely clueless.”
The tax reforms will most likely benefit my family.
We don’t pay state income tax and our property tax is around 9k a year.
I still am trying to figure out what great public services New Jersey has compared to Texas.
We used to live in a blue ribbon district in jersey. Our school district in Texas is far superior. The buildings are new. The curriculum and teachers are better. There are lots of clubs even at the elementary school level. elementary schools have computer rooms. All middle school and high school kids get an iPad. The district even has its own police force with a cop assigned to each middle and high school and other cops patrolling the different elementary schools. The high school kids can easily earn 16-60 college credits while in high school that are valid at the state and private colleges and universities in Texas. All 8th graders have to take a career development class to figure out what they want to do. In high school they don’t take general studies. Instead they select a tract to follow such as stem, computer science, agriculture (it is texas), culinary, education, or business. About half the kids in my kids schools are minorities or multiracial so that keeps the progressive liberals away.
We have a modern infrastructure. We don’t get the brown outs like we did in jersey. The roads are better maintained. I prefer the local and state parks to the ones we would go to in jersey. We have never had a water main break. We even have bike lanes.
The library is smaller and doesn’t have the same selection as the one in jersey, but it is part of a reginlal network so I can get almost any book I want within a few days.
We have to renew our car registration every year, but as long as I don’t wait till the last few days of the month I am in and out of the place in under ten minutes from the time I park till I am back in my car.
Our biggest complaint is how far away we are from a beach and pizza is lousy. And the toll roads are very expensive compared to the parkway and turnpike. But I would rather have my kids take a career training path in high school to see if they like it or not then take a general high school core and drop 100k getting a degree in a field they realize they dislike in their senior year.
Oh, and even in the months we don’t have to run our sprinklers our water bill is double our jersey bill: I also have to mow the lawn until around thanksgiving and start mowing again end of February, but I don’t have to shovel snow. And when we get an ice storm, everything closes for a day or 2 until the ice melts
Leftwing, not really a dumb comment, at a certain level there is a push for people to have these things. People on this board are different we are the cheapskates. It’s not some grand conspiracy, and there is no “defrauding” going on , if you really take the time to talk to some of these people you will see the elite attitude, you are the “hired help”, they will pay you for your services but they do not view you as like them(don’t ever think that you are, and yes they will be very cordial and nice to your face) and support policies to keep you in your place. Do you not think that political lobbying is behind the legislation passed and that seemingly innocuous things are inserted in legislation that actually have real significant consequences. We are all playing the same game but they make the rules and that is the significant part. Do you not think some regulations are put into place to limit competition with entrenched players? Without regulation the vast majority of WS firms would be out of business replaced by better operators who have embraced more modern technology, the barrier to entry is so high you have limited innovation.
Yes, it’s all shiny and new because it hasn’t been paid for yet. Wait till 10 years from now when they need to maintain all this shiny new stuff. Then they will be in the same damn position as the northeast or the rust belt.
“We used to live in a blue ribbon district in jersey. Our school district in Texas is far superior. The buildings are new. The curriculum and teachers are better. There are lots of clubs even at the elementary school level. elementary schools have computer rooms. All middle school and high school kids get an iPad. The district even has its own police force with a cop assigned to each middle and high school and other cops patrolling the different elementary schools. The high school kids can easily earn 16-60 college credits while in high school that are valid at the state and private colleges and universities in Texas. All 8th graders have to take a career development class to figure out what they want to do. In high school they don’t take general studies. Instead they select a tract to follow such as stem, computer science, agriculture (it is texas), culinary, education, or business. About half the kids in my kids schools are minorities or multiracial so that keeps the progressive liberals away.
We have a modern infrastructure. We don’t get the brown outs like we did in jersey. The roads are better maintained. I prefer the local and state parks to the ones we would go to in jersey. We have never had a water main break. We even have bike lanes”
Jj fan. That is one of the myths that keep the people in blue ribbon towns thinking we are special or better. I came to the conclusion some years back that it’s a sham. And I believe it is. Just as an example the other day my train which goes to Hoboken great commute to NYC as the realtors say. Well train brakes down the train behind it breaks down too. Long story short left my house at 7:00 got to work at 9:45!! This happens regularly. The next day short a car. Train packed. And the trains were built to seat young children. There was a tragic accident in Hoboken terminal last year that killed a young mother. It caused significant damage to a portion of the roof. Construction started in the summer it will be completed in 2019!! Just another story about our wonderful infrastructure and how special we are to live in this area.
Our infrastructure is old and falling apart and has not been paid for!! That is a stupid comment.
Maybe the citizens of Texas get lucky, and the extreme population growth keeps the ponzi scheme going for another 20 years, but trust me, the day they are no longer flush with new tax revenue from all the population boom is the day Texas will have to increase taxes to pay for the maintenance of all this stuff. The politicians won’t have the balls to raise taxes for the repairs, so they will just keep pushing it off, or they will borrow money from the future to pay for it. This is what happen to the northeast, esp jersey. Remember, 30 years ago, almost everything was shiny and new in jersey.
“More fun in the pipeline, your guy’s tuition is going move from, what, $2500 at the NFP Blues to $7000 for T1 Colonials?” Blues are about $3,500. T1 is now closer to 8K and that’s without the cost of family travel and lodging.
Will wait until he’s 15 or even 16 for tier 1. It’s a gigantic waste of money for anyone under 15 in these parts. I know a ton of Jersey kids who used to play with my son who are now tier 1. None were more skilled. Their parents love to say that their kids play tier 1 hockey. Meanwhile, even our lowly A team last year nearly knocked off a few of these supposed tier 1 teams. Gator Jr.’s AA team this year could probably beat most of them. At this age, Peewee or Bantam in NJ tier 1 is nearly identical to tier 2 except among the top two teams (today it’s Colonials and probably Junior Devils). The rest are tier 2 teams playing in tier 1 and getting crushed by true 1 teams. The truth is, almost all tier 1 kids burn out after two years of tier 1 hockey. I know of no kids who played more than 3 years. Not a single one. The travel is grueling and families can’t afford the time off from work. Best is to wait until they are through Bantam and the mighty little kids drop out because they can’t take the hits. At 15 and 16, they are playing all true tier 1 and that’s when scholarship consideration can happen anyway. Also, kids develop at all different speeds. But they all develop quicker when they are older. The best kid on a U12 or U13 Tier 1 team most likely won’t be the best kid as a U16. If somehow your kid is the one who can be best on both, you are not thinking scholarship. You are getting him ready for Canadian Juniors. College can come later if necessary. That starting 800K NHL salary will make that decision much easier. Finally, tier 1 below age 15 is stupid since even if you make Colonials or Devils, you will be blowing out all of your Jersey opponents and getting nothing out of it. Better off playing AA in close games with like competition. Bad habits are learned when competition is weak. Then when you play strong competition, you suck.
Blue ribbon and those rankings are a crock of sh1t. It’s been proven time and time again that it’s the wealth and time available for extra curricular learning that makes test scores increase. Your teachers are no better than those in any other town.
I spent two hours Wednesday night drilling my kid on 1/3rd of a chapter in his Soc1al studies book as he had a quiz on it yesterday. That poor minority kid has parent(s) working too hard to help and no money for Kumon or Kaplan. That’s what separates the wheat from the chaff. Put Newark kids in Glen Ridge High and Glen Ridge kids in Newark High and the scores will follow the kids, not the schools.
“You know the type, just sold their business for 12 billion and crying about the tax that must be paid.”
Ok, Einstein. You’re right. I know the type. You don’t. So here goes.
The $12B stake ($40B business):
Founder went all-in, if it didn’t work he was screwed.
The actual operation of the business had a major ‘ewww’ factor anyone would cringe at…he did it personally to start.
Added bonus, the original operations dealt with people with whom you would not associate because of ‘class’.
Grandson came up in the business from his youngest days and lowest levels in the company.
When we needed to do a two leg European flight he refused a private jet (standard for deals of this type) and insisted on commercial. He knew it would be billed back to his account and didn’t want to drop the $20k, “European commercial is not that bad, not like the US”.
$2B Sale
Seller was 74. Obvious deal that was waiting over a decade to happen.
One major stumbling block was what he would do once he sold. He still worked 12 hour days and “did not want to become just another billionaire on the shores of Lake Tahoe” (direct quote)
Second major stumbling block was that he insisted the original facility, founded in his hometown, remain open to manufacture one specialized piece of equipment produced there. Made no sense for his company to have retained this facility, let alone the merged company. Would not yield, “that town needs that facility”. Written into the deal, and he took appreciably less because of it. Just googled, the facility is still there and still producing.
So, what’s the formula numbnuts? International wealth conspiracy? Or maybe just create something of value, doing something no one else can or will, while going all-in, working your backside off, paying attention to expenses and detail, and stay loyal to those who helped you get there?
I forgot to mention for the $40B company we did a placement a few years before the sale where some shares were sold to outside investors. The grandson literally had ten figures cash in the bank from that.
Contrast his view on dropping $20k on a flight with $1B in the bank with the professional NJ donkey dropping $25k annually on an S-Class with no cash and $1m of illiquid worth.
If there is disdain for certain elements of the ‘professional’ class it is well earned. Professionals spending exorbitantly to attempt to overtly manage their perception of their appearance while not having two nickels to rub together should breed contempt. And laughter.
Getting back to grilling my kid. He left his book in school. I went online and was able to find a copy of the book including the teacher’s edition complete with review sheets, quizes, etc. Chances are, he took the same quiz with me that he took in class. Newark mom does not know how or have the time to figure out how to access McGraw-Hill online. That kid gets a D.
Maybe Texas learns what not to do by watching states like NJ destroy themselves. And no not everything in NJ was shiny and new 30 years ago.
And who doesn’t do this? How many people working their butts off at a job for crappy compensation that most people wouldn’t do. Do they get payed more for working hard at a job that most wouldn’t touch? Do they get paid billions for doing something no one else will? Just look at the life of a coal miner, and tell me you believe the crap you spew. Is that billionaire risking his health to survive? Fu!k you. That’s the biggest risk of all, putting your health on the line to make a dollar.
“So, what’s the formula numbnuts? International wealth conspiracy? Or maybe just create something of value, doing something no one else can or will, while going all-in, working your backside off, paying attention to expenses and detail, and stay loyal to those who helped you get there?”
Yes, sure…..because they are different and not driven by the same human nature. Give me a break.
3b says:
September 29, 2017 at 12:50 pm
Maybe Texas learns what not to do by watching states like NJ destroy themselves. And no not everything in NJ was shiny and new 30 years ago.
Pumps,
My district is not just building new schools for the people moving into the area. It is knocking down the old schools and building a new one in its place. A new school gets built. An old school gets torn down and those kids go to the new school. The old school gets replaced by a new school in its spot. When that school is completed. The kids get moved back from new school 1 to new school 2. Then old school 2 gets torn down and rebuilt with new school 3 and those kids go to new school 1 during construction. Once new school 3 is completed old school 2 kids go to new school 3. Old school 3 gets torn down and those kids go to new school 1.
Enjoy having your kid go to a school built when Eisenhower was president and had some lame addition added in the 80’s or has temporary school room trailers installed since Clinton was president.
At least open your mind to the possibility that you could be wrong and they may not screw up their state as bad as NJ is screwed up.
And that’s the problem with capitalism. People are risking their health and not being rewarded as much as someone that is risking “capital.” Capital is more valuable than health? You can always make a dollar you lose, but you can never get your health back. Capitalism has placed “capital” at a higher value in our society than one’s health. It doesn’t have to be this way, but we choose to value greed over humanity.
Left I dispute none of what you say or disagree but if more does not flow down to the productive in this country who contribute to the billionaires success than we will have serious problems.
where’s gary at?
Trumps tax repeal for amounts greater than a couple’s $10.9 million inheritance will be of great benefit to him
Capitalism sells poison to us in the form of food, just to make a buck. Capitalism pollutes the water we drink and the air that we breathe. Capital is more important than us and that’s sad.
How much are you worth?
You can look it up. I figured you did when you emailed me on my work account.
OK Pumps, I’ve broken the concepts up to make it easier. Very slowly for you:
“create something of value, doing something no one else can or will, while going all-in”
“working your backside off, paying attention to expenses and detail, and stay loyal to those who helped you get there?”
Do neither of the above: Typically underclass, dependent
Do the latter, but not the former: Typically producer class. Exact placement along the white-blue spectrum depends on micro-factors like education, location, etc.
Do both, successfully: Typically toward the top end of the producer class, ie, 1er%.
My experience, the difference between the 1%ers and the relatively large number of people that can also come up with unique ideas is risk tolerance. Those that end up being 1%ers often were willing to take some very large steps originally without a net. And, across all categories, a little bit of timing and opportunity don’t hurt.
3b,
They already screwed up by bringing a huge population to a place with not enough water. How many people can that water supply serve? How many people moving to Texas everyday? Trust me, they all saw dollar signs and let the growth get out of control. No one cares until the population stops growing and the bill comes due on a stagnant or decreasing population.
3b says:
September 29, 2017 at 12:57 pm
At least open your mind to the possibility that you could be wrong and they may not screw up their state as bad as NJ is screwed up.
None of what you say answers the question. You simply state that they will screw it up. And since they will screw it up and we are already screwed up than what is the difference so let’s be happy in a place that’s already screwed up and pay the price for it.
Jcer,
Not to take credit away from your great post but Carlin said long before you.
“The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there just to scare the shit out of the middle class. Keep ’em showin’ up at those jobs.”
George Carlin
“3b we have no choice, we can be lazy and live like the rabble or bust our butts to live somewhat better but the truly rich and powerful need to make sure you don’t climb too high,”
Water is overrated. Even the Romans knew how to build aqueducts. If water gets too expensive, someone will build a pipe from where it’s plentiful to where it’s needed.
Grim,
When you get a chance could you send leftwing my info to pm me.
Thanks
Libturd,
I hated that blue ribbon district in jersey. They tried to classify my kid and referr d him to intervention and referral services. Because he daydreamed a few times, didn’t line up hid pencils in the same direction, and once made a small park on his desk with a pencil. And the kid was 7 when they tried this. What 7 year old doesn’t daydream occasionally or make a pencilnscribble on his or her desk?
Meanwhile the kid had a 98 average
They kept trying to get me to give them permission for him to have lunch with the guidance counselor and a few other kids. I refused. That’s a backdoor way for a member of the child studies team to do an unofficial evaluation. I wound up printing out the state regs on intervention and referral services, highlighting parts of it and having a meetings with the principal to put end to this.
And I have a relative with a masters in special ed would observe all the kids in the family if the parents asked. Said my kids were perfectly normal and to fight this ninsense and even volunteered to be my kids advocate in hearings if needed.
Meanwhile the kid is now in all Pre ap classes in Texas and took the SATs as a 7th grader as part of a duke university program. If we had stayed I bet I would be having several fights a year over the schools attempt to get him on the road to being classified. And the nj school acted like it was doing me a favor with their disingenuous ways.
The kid was just bored in class because it was so slow paced
Capitalism has done more to elevate people out of poverty and improve the human condition than any other economic/political system.
The average shlub can walk to the local WaWa or Quick Chek and buy things only kings could have 1000 years ago.
aaaaaand D-FENS’ post marks the low point of the day.
You guys that have multis: Are these things kicking out 6-10% of rent roll after all expenses? Wondering if the average, or shrewd, Bergen/Hudson purchase allows for non-owner management.
What is your definition of “improve the human condition?” Study the philosophy of Rousseau. He had it right. Society chains you from every direction. We live longer, eat till we are fat, but most live an unhappy life. Not many people live the life they want, or get to enjoy it. Did capitalism improve people’s happiness or just elicit human nature in the form of jealousy and greed? Just getting philosophical with you, obviously there is no right answer.
D-FENS says:
September 29, 2017 at 1:33 pm
Capitalism has done more to elevate people out of poverty and improve the human condition than any other economic/political system.
The average shlub can walk to the local WaWa or Quick Chek and buy things only kings could have 1000 years ago.
False. I know plenty of good honest men that were completely loyal to their boss. They did everything and were never rewarded like your so called “producers.” They came to work everyday, they were highly productive, and they were completely loyal to anything the boss said. Sad, but they were never rewarded, their boss simply smiled as he profited off their skilled labor and dedication.
Do you believe in monarchies? You seem to carry the mindset of the 1500’s. That the king (aka the producer/ 1%er) rightfully deserves to have it all. He is the one that manages and puts it all together, right? He risked his gold to build it all, right? He hired the soldiers, therefore deserves to have it all. The peasants are nothing without their king (aka producer), right? History tells you how that ended.
““create something of value, doing something no one else can or will, while going all-in”
“working your backside off, paying attention to expenses and detail, and stay loyal to those who helped you get there?”
Do neither of the above: Typically underclass, dependent”
Glad I could cheer you up.
enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN36RzSjWNw
abeiz says:
September 29, 2017 at 2:02 pm
aaaaaand D-FENS’ post marks the low point of the day.
You guys that have multis: Are these things kicking out 6-10% of rent roll after all expenses? Wondering if the average, or shrewd, Bergen/Hudson purchase allows for non-owner management.
Gary is out winning somewhere. Just drove through a little place called Box Canyon Rd. in Simi Valley. You have seen a place like this. Soaring views and tiny enclaves sprinkled in the hills. Larger areas developed in the valleys. Stunning from any angle. Superb really. Now what were we talking about….
“Capitalism has done more to elevate people out of poverty and improve the human condition than any other economic/political system.
The average shlub can walk to the local WaWa or Quick Chek and buy things only kings could have 1000 years ago.”
Slurpees for all!
Mine definitely does better than 6-10%. And if I was better at plumbing, you could add a few more percentage points to that list. Better locate in a train town though or you’re screwed.
Everyone gets to be an astronaut on a BFR.
“Musk showed a demonstration of the idea onstage, claiming that it will allow passengers to take “most long-distance trips” in just 30 minutes, and go “anywhere on Earth in under an hour” for around the same price as an economy airline ticket.
Musk proposed using SpaceX’s forthcoming mega-rocket (codenamed Big F***ing Rocket or BFR for short) to lift a massive spaceship into orbit around the Earth. The ship would then settle down on floating landing pads near major cities. Both the new rocket and spaceship are currently theoretical, though Musk did say that he hopes to begin construction on the rocket in the next six to nine months.”
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/29/16383048/elon-musk-spacex-rocket-transport-earth-travel
Most informative article I can find on Trump’s proposal and the effect on income property investors: https://www.inman.com/2017/09/27/trumps-tax-reform-plan-is-a-mixed-bag-for-real-estate/
I lose on my personal residence – high property tax, but no mortgage on it. I was looking to sell it within a year and run out of Dodge.
I may win when it comes to being a landlord. We shall see.
Pay attention to the SEC. 1031 COMMENTS
re: Box Canyon Rd
Swing a little further south to Hidden Hills and say hello to the Kardashians while you are at it.
I hate LA….
The MID is somewhere around $100 Billion in subsidies to home ownership and a talking point for the home tour guides. If they don’t have that talking point what will they do bake more cookies?
I picked up a ’16 Outback. The little mountain goat likes the canyon roads. 3.6 R came with 250 HP. Love the Japanese when they stretch a bit.
Green Sprouts Ver 2.0
SEPTEMBER 29, 2017 12:01 AM
France and the United Kingdom are doing it. So is India. And now one lawmaker would like California to follow their lead in phasing out gasoline- and diesel-fueled vehicles.
When the Legislature returns in January, Assemblyman Phil Ting plans to introduce a bill that would ban the sale of new cars powered by internal-combustion engines after 2040. The San Francisco Democrat said it’s essential to get California drivers into an electric fleet if the state is going to meet its greenhouse gas reduction targets, since the transportation sector accounts for more than a third of all emissions.
“The market is moving this way. The entire world is moving this way,” Ting said. “At some point you need to set a goal and put a line in the sand.”
California already committed five years ago to putting 1.5 million “zero-emission vehicles,” such as electric cars and plug-in hybrids, on the road by 2025. By that time, the state wants these cleaner models to account for 15 percent of all new car sales.
Would any of the corporate tax magi opine on what I see as the gift to multi-nationals.
That is changing from a global to territorial taxes. (So you know that no US based corporation will ever make a profit again, profits transferred to offshores who than report the taxes, but because out of US, no more taxes.)
So Corporation will not be people for tax purposes.
Gary cracks me up most as he says get ye to the Midwest (or other un-named flyover location) when it is actually HE that would be most at home there.
Gary’s thinking is aligned with the people of that region and now YA’LL run thee Country..How Bout Dat??
Meanwhile, way out west, there is a huge influx of forward thinking stoners to this mecca of self-indulgence we called C-a-l-i-fornia. Don’t take my word for it, once the boutiques are open LA County will become everything that Denver is an more. With the ever-fragrant odors, and the now nearly embalmed homeless.
These massive sprawling Counties and corners so deeply suburban that a fresh arrival like me is stunned to see the cozy interplay of land and sky, house and hill, natural and artificial body parts.
It is enough to make one weary of the aesthetic in say….10 years….there is just too much to see. Oh, and the weather is such that you can play any sport, ride any vehicle, or enjoy any outdoor activity anytime that you want.
It’s all too beautiful.
re: It’s all too beautiful.
It’s a long day livin’ in Reseda
There’s a freeway runnin’ through the yard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lWJXDG2i0A&feature=youtu.be
Tom price is out
Tom Price latest to say “Why da fuq am I putting up with this bullshwa for chump change when I could be raking it in back in the private sector and using reporters for target practice?”
Will the last person in the OEOB please turn out the lights?
A tax cut means reducing taxes paid. This isn’t a tax cut as it raises taxes on many. This is just simple realignment – and this always raises questions about picking winners and losers.
Cut the spending, pass the savings down in the form of an actual net tax reduction.
Otherwise, who cares how the chairs are rearranged?
I’ll be better off as my company will show significant income next year as we took losses during startup. The timing is ideal for me. I’ll end up significantly as a result.
4:27 I think that song is the favored Prom Theme here. Fun Fact. My neighbor is a retired firefighter. He and his crew put out the blaze at Tom’s house in Ventura. Asked him “why” he kept his master tapes in the basement of his (now burnt) home. They were able to salvage those tapes.
True politician right there….selling it as a “tax cut” when he is really lowering for the ultra rich and poor at the expense of the professional working class. Just changing the tax system to make it easier for the ultra rich like himself to keep their money, and making it harder for the professional class to climb the ladder into the rich class. As simple as that. The elite are indeed protecting their positions.
I expect the press to start pushing that story very hard now.
Lots of good points today with the exception of bumpkin of course.
Of course classism is a major factor in tax policy. another factor is elections. Clearly the areas being scr3wed in this deal are all blue states. This will hit nj re hard if it passes as stated.
Another point is that it looks like going Indy and incorporating will be a big advantage.
Sure, but that’ll be called a loophole for the wealthy. Move your real estate assets into a corporation, mortgage them, Magic when state taxes and mortgage interest are now deductible again!
Conventional mortgage on your home? Sorry sucker, this game ain’t for you.
Nobody is talking about making state and MID non-deductible for businesses.