Time to take a vacation … on the house!

From CNBC:

Home equity loans set to soar along with home prices

Ever since the epic housing crash of the last decade, homeowners have been incredibly conservative with their housing debt.

Home prices rose, at first slowly and now quite dramatically, yet owners held back on taking out all that new-found equity. That is about to change — by a lot.

About 10 million homeowners are expected to take out home equity lines of credit in the next four years, according to a new report from TransUnion.

That would be more than double the amount of originations between 2012 and 2016. This comes as the amount of available home equity has jumped to more than $13 trillion today from $6.3 trillion in 2011, the bottom of the last housing crash.

HELOCs, which are often loans after the primary mortgage, usually rise and fall along with home equity, but that didn’t happen following the recession. There was a significant pullback in lending, as banks considered the loans too risky and too difficult to originate, given the stricter underwriting guidelines that were implemented.

Some lenders got out of the business because there just wasn’t enough demand. Borrowers simply didn’t have the equity because home values had fallen so far. Even as values rose, borrowers didn’t rush in immediately.

Still, the demand will likely be there, as consumers use their home equity for several reasons. First, they will use it to repair and renovate their homes. With the housing supply so low, more homeowners are staying where they are, unable to find or afford a move-up home. Instead, they add on or upgrade what they have. Remodeling activity has been rising steadily and more dramatically this year.

“Recent strengthening of the U.S. economy, tight housing inventories, and healthy home equity gains are all working to boost home improvement activity,” Chris Herbert, managing director of the Joint Center for Housing Studies, wrote in a recent survey.

“Over the coming year, owners are projected to spend in excess of $330 billion on home upgrades and replacements, as well as routine maintenance,” Herbert said.

This entry was posted in Economics, Mortgages, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

116 Responses to Time to take a vacation … on the house!

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. grim says:

    Rare late night opening at the distillery, come on down. We’ll be open from 7-11pm today for tours, tastings, cocktails. You can bring your kids, we’re family friendly.

  3. Libturd says:


  4. grim says:

    I would have bet money that you would have renamed as “Dr. Harry Feltersnatch”

  5. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:


  6. grim says:

    I hear the FBI and CIA spent $42,000 on Sharpie Markers redacting all of the JFK documents released last night.

    Good news, they didn’t redact most of the pronouns, prepositions, or conjunctions. They left some punctuation in too.

  7. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    Speaking of JFK, if any of you like the blues, this is what happens when you combine a history teacher with a great blues artist.


  8. Chi says:

    FYI to the headline article

    People use HELOCs for college tuition too

  9. exjersey says:

    Will never take another Heloc out. Did so in NJ. Abused it. Luckily stayed long enough to pay off.

  10. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (WTF Edition):

  11. Juice Box says:

    re: “take a vacation”

    Yup I am going to need one, my wife is in Puerto Vallarta with college friends for a long weekend and I am home with the kids.

  12. leftwing says:

    Ugh, two martinis last night after a long period of no booze…..lightweight, feeling it.

    Any dinner recommendations around Wayne. Looking for great food, laid back atmosphere. White linen not preferred but ok. No corporate

  13. 30 year realtor says:

    Ate at Viaggio last night. Food was good. Two entrees and a shared appetizer came to about $65 before tip. In a strip mall on Hamburg Tpke. BYOB.

  14. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    Tell her to check out Chico’s Paradise on the road between Mesmaloya Beach (which is my favorite beach in PV) and Manzanillo. If you order a few beers $1 each typically, the farthest restaurant on Mesmaloya will rent you the lounge chair and umbrella for free. It’s named Charito’s or something like that.

  15. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:


    I know it’s a chain, but I love Jose Tejas. Great blackened catfish. Stick with the Louisiana food and not the Mexican and it’s pretty good and very inexpensive. Though definitely more fun with friends.

  16. grim says:

    If you dig local beer – Taphouse on French Hill. Gastropub style.

  17. grim says:

    Jose Tejas on a Friday night? No way. Hour+ wait for 4 – no reservations.

    Food is clearly a loss leader at Jose’s, best bargain going. Until you down two Patron margaritas.

  18. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    Taphouse is good. My hockey team rents the upstairs every year for a party. Food and beer very good.

  19. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    Yeah, their food is impossibly cheap. Their kids meals are about the deal ever. But you are right about the wait. And the service can be bad if you get a new waitress.

  20. leftwing says:

    Taphouse, boom!

    Thanks guys. Was actually there once way back during a kid’s hockey season. Exactly what I was looking for. Getting excited for the mussels and clams already!

  21. D-FENS says:

    OOO whitefish contract with PR has been leaked…

  22. abeiz says:

    Grim, are you silkcity?

    Re: beer

    If you dig standing around a bar table in your jacket in an unheated warehouse listening to live blues/rock tipping beers and free snacks…. Cricket Hill Brewery in Fairfield. Rick, the owner, jumps on a brewing tank and gives the most passionate red face tirade against Anheiser&Co ever. hear ye! hear ye!

    There’s also New Jersey Beer Company, which is literally tucked under the 495 overpass leading to the Lincoln tunnel. Small, quiet vibe, no music, just a bar in brewing room.

  23. Simon says:


    Can you provide the reference to the uber inspector, as well as the mortgage broker you have raved about (in Parsippany I think?)


  24. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    Here’s a fun one. I need to replace one of my submersible sump pumps in my french drain pit. Anyone have a brand preference? I’m replacing an ancient Enpo-Cornell pump that is so old, I can’t even find the stats on it even though I can read the model number on it. This pump must have been installed in the 60s. It weighs about 40 pounds too. I have 1″ pipe out.

  25. Juice Box says:

    re: whitefish contract

    Contract was awarded by PREPA not FEMA.

    CEO of PREPA is Ricardo Ramos<——- Appointed by Puerto Rico's Govenor Ricardo Rossell who is a Democrat.

  26. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    Mortgage guy is Carl Nielson. Looks like Mortgage Master is now Carl Nielson.


    Uber inspector was not so uber for a few here recently so ymmv.

  27. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    peter bennet a full house inspection was uber inspector.

    Tell Carl I said hello and that I still want Devils tickets, now that they are good! Mike is his assistant. Great guy too. He handles the Helocs and similar. Tell him I said hello as well. Let me know how it goes. I am open to criticism.

  28. Juice Box says:

    Ruby and Oswald had a connection?

  29. D-FENS says:

    I’ve had a Rigid brand sump pump cranking away in my basement that I installed ten years ago. no issues thus far.

  30. D-FENS says:

    I also put in the basement watchdog battery powered system as a backup.

  31. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    Rigid is home depot. Interesting. I wonder who made it for them.

  32. 3b says:

    Catalonia government declares independence ahead of the Spanish government taking over the provincial government tomorrow. Things could get ugly there.

  33. Nomad says:


    These are cast iron commercial grade pumps.


  34. The Great Pumpkin says:

    True story.

    “There is plenty of affordable housing in NJ, Camden Newark Passaic, Patterson, go live there.“

  35. D-FENS says:

    WTF is wrong with Lindsey Graham? Testifying on behalf of Menendez saying he’s very honest? What a dirtbag.

  36. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s a capitalist based system. If you don’t like living in a low cost area, then work your butt off to get ahead. Also, being poor doesn’t mean you can’t take care of your neighborhood and community. My grandmother raised her family in Passaic when she came from Europe. We have since all moved up due to lots of hard work and perseverance. Life is about challenging yourself and not making excuses. Life is not fair and was never meant to be fair. Don’t compare yourself to anyone, and just focus on working hard and improving your life. It’s as simple as that. Not everyone can live in ritzy Bergen County town under a capitalist based system that thrives on competition.

  37. D-FENS says:

    I think Wayne. They look identical.

    Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:
    October 27, 2017 at 11:05 am
    Rigid is home depot. Interesting. I wonder who made it for them.

  38. grim says:

    Yep, I’m Silk City

  39. Juice Box says:

    re: “WTF is wrong with Lindsey Graham”

    Menendez probably has a pic of him and Booker vacationing together in the Dominican Republic or something.

  40. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    Looks like Wayne Pump, most likely makes Rigid. They appear identical.

  41. grim says:

    Check supplyhouse.com

    Usually have beat prices and you receive next day.

  42. Simon says:



  43. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    OK. Might bring the family by tonight Grim. You might have to make a virgin drink for Gator Jr.

  44. D-FENS says:

    Unbelievable. Buried in the news cycle…


    Cops knew about Sandy Hook shooter’s plot for years

  45. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    No problem Simon. I swear my life on Carl, but shop around to make sure you are getting the best deal. Paying higher interest than you need to over 30 years is very costly. Make sure none of the closing costs are wrapped in.

  46. catfude says:

    “For the Millennials, this is a great time to furnish a first apartment with kitchen and household items including small furniture and appliances.”


  47. leftwing says:

    “Cops knew about Sandy Hook shooter’s plot for years”

    Yeah, but gun control is the answer.

    Reminds of the scene from the The Jerk where Steve Martin is under fire next to a display of oil cans, popping when they are hit.

    “You have some defective oil cans here.”

    “Forget that, it’s a defective person!”

  48. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    They were talking about Sandy Hook on 60 minutes and that moron bragged about casing the school for such an event for years.

  49. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Can you say FANG!! Glad I didn’t listen to all the noise from the haters that keep missing the boat and waiting for a bust. If only they read this blog and listened to Michaels economic calls way back when. This party is only getting started. Roaring 20’s 2.0.

  50. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Best economic boom of our lifetime. The stuff of legends. Make that money

  51. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    “Roaring 20’s 2.0.”

    I’m looking forward to the dust bowl.

  52. The Great Pumpkin says:

    That’s for sure lib. Just don’t get greedy, and cash out when the time is right.

  53. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    Greedy? I’ve already moved 20% of my money out of stocks. Was at 100% until DJIA 22K.

  54. Fast Eddie says:


    What’s the story behind your latest posting name? :)

  55. D-FENS says:

    sb Dr. Howie Feltersnach…unless maybe his brother is Harry.

  56. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Yeah because it’s not possible to be bearish and still make money on stocks. Give us another pick besides Nate’s foods and we’ll judge you on it.

  57. Libturd, AKA Dr. Harry Feltersnatch says:

    Went with the Zoeller M98 1/2 HP since the output pipe is only 1″ anyway. So now I have 1 and one half horses of raw pump power with 2 1/2 inches of pipe space to move the water up an out. Two check valves as well, of course. Supply guy said Zoeller is the best out there if you are not doing constant use. Something about the sealed oil area is so bullet proof that the bearings and seals never dry out. Personally, I like the weight of the thing and the fact the float is on a pole rather than free floating. Those free floaters sometimes jam in an upward position causing pump to burn out, or worse, catch fire. Found it for $244 at General Supply in East Orange. 3.5% sales tax yo. I already installed it and tested it. My boiler has never been flushed this much (my water source).

  58. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    I see it’s Howie. Much better than Harry.

  59. Fast Eddie says:

    Got it. lol

  60. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    AL and PCLN are still killing it.

  61. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    BTW, the Sunday storm is still on. At this point, I would not anticipate less than 3″ of rain for the area with 5″ a real possibility. It’s still early, but this one could be one of those basement flooders.

  62. No One says:

    Sunday sounds like the perfect day for me to play 18 holes in my garage golf simulator.

  63. exJersey says:

    Hahahaha. Felt her snaaatch

  64. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    They also have a Seymour Bush.

  65. grim says:

    Gotta clean gutters tomorrow

  66. grim says:

    Forgot how fun dry ice was

  67. Juice Box says:

    Put up gutter guards cheapo!

  68. Phoenix says:

    Gutter guards don’t always work well, especially with pine needles…

  69. The Great Pumpkin says:

    What I love now….Christie and trump(republicans in general) now want to save drug addicts? Wtf? Since when do they care about junkies…so the question is, why do they care? What’s in it for them?

  70. Juice Box says:

    Pumps most drug dealers are Democrats

  71. The Great Pumpkin says:

    That makes sense. I don’t expect any of these people high up on the chain to care about junkies. They don’t care about the little people’s jobs, education, or healthcare, so why would they care if they addicted to opioids? Both teams just take contradictory positions. For guns, but against abortion. Against guns, but for abortions. That is just one example. Yup, they just play the general population like puppets.

  72. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Good call!

    grim says:
    October 27, 2017 at 3:43 pm
    Gotta clean gutters tomorrow

  73. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’m not perfect. I make mistakes, and I learn from them. Could have made a lot of money off nhmd, but I fell in love with a penny. Lesson learned…trade it, but never ever hold it, or worse, fall in love with it.

    I really thought the idea had potential and I’m a fool for that. Lesson learned.

    My recommendation, buy FANG. They are still stupid cheap based on what they will be 10 years from now. They are the new economy.

    Blue Ribbon Teacher says:
    October 27, 2017 at 2:23 pm
    Yeah because it’s not possible to be bearish and still make money on stocks. Give us another pick besides Nate’s foods and we’ll judge you on it.

  74. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Buy Microsoft too. They are transitioning to the cloud market and positioning themselves to make profit.

    Also, buy biotech. They are on the verge of coming up with lots of cancer drugs.

  75. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The Bergen Record has endorsed Phil Murphy for Governor! The Bergen Record is the third major newspaper to endorse, following the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Star Ledger. #Murphy4NJ

    “We see Murphy as more authentic. We believe he is better capable of forging alliances not only with Democrats, but with Republicans in the Legislature. And given the climate in Washington, D.C., he is more likely to push back against federal policies and congressional actions that will negatively impact New Jersey…Elections are about choices and Phil Murphy is the better choice.”

  76. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    How about the Asbury Park Press?

  77. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    She supports the extension of the 2 percent interest arbitration cap for police and firefighters, which has played a major role in reducing the rate of property tax increases in recent years. Murphy has been noncommittal. She supports giving citizens the right of initiative and referendum, which Murphy opposes. She favors a far more aggressive approach to school and municipal consolidation than Murphy. She is against a $15-an-hour minimum wage, would renegotiate public employee health and pension benefits, and wants all new public employees to enroll in 401(k) plans.

    Nuff said.

  78. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    The only reason Murphy wants to legalize pot is so you won’t feel it as much when he’s sticking it up your ass.

  79. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Who’s the sheep?

    “As Monmouth County sheriff, Guadagno made false and conflicting statements that enabled her chief officer, Michael Donovan, to collect an $85,000 a year pension in addition to his $87,500 salary. It was one of three cases the Police and Firemen’s Retirement System board of trustees referred to DCJ for investigation.”


  80. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Screw the career politician, I’ll take my chances with Murphy who probably wants to build a legacy.

    “For Kimberly Ann Guadagno, the scandal began in 2008 — the year before she first ran for lieutenant governor on the Christie ticket.

    Then-Sheriff Guadagno hired Michael W. Donovan, a retired investigator for the county prosecutor, as her “chief of law enforcement division.” She announced the appointment in a memo to her staff. The sheriff’s official website subsequently identified Donovan as “sheriff’s officer chief,” supervising 115 subordinate officers and 30 civilian employees.

    As a sheriff’s officer chief — a position covered by the pension system — Donovan should have reenrolled in PFRS, which would have stopped his retirement checks and resumed his contributions to the plan.

    Instead, Guadagno fudged Donovan’s job title, enabling her top aide to keep collecting his pension plus his new salary.

    In county payroll records and a news release from Guadagno, Donovan was listed as the sheriff’s “chief warrant officer” — a similar-sounding but lower-ranking position exempt from the pension system. A chief warrant officer is generally responsible for serving warrants and other legal documents.

    A photo released by the sheriff’s office shows Guadagno attended a ceremony in which Donovan took an oath of office as chief warrant officer. Yet on Guadagno’s organizational chart, Donovan was listed as chief of law enforcement. The position of chief warrant officer was not on the chart.

    In a rare comment on the controversy, Guadagno contended she hired Donovan to save as a cost-cutting measure.

    “It saved the taxpayers of Monmouth County $50,000 for the year, put a uniformed officer on the street, put a well-qualified retired law enforcement officer in his place,” Guadagno told the Associated Press on the eve of the 2013 gubernatorial election.

    That was not the case. According to payroll records, her personnel move cost the county an additional $75,000 a year by adding a new administrative position.

    The new “uniformed officer on the street” was 48-year-old John J. Cerrato, who had been sheriff’s officer chief at a salary of $141,687 a year. To make room for Donovan, Cerrato was demoted to “sheriff’s officer captain” — a new administrative position with a $131,521 salary.

    While the county saved $10,000 on Cerrato’s annual pay, it started Donovan at a salary of $85,000. In addition, he continued to draw another $85,000 a year in pension.

    Overall, the maneuver cost the PFRS pension fund an additional $245,000 — $227,000 in retirement pay to Donovan while he served as sheriff’s officer chief plus $18,000 in pension contributions he avoided by not reenrolling in the pension plan.

    Guadagno also told AP that state pension authorities had approved the hiring of Donovan. But if so, why did the PFRS board subsequently request a criminal investigation?”

  81. grab them by the hair pie says:


  82. Phoenix says:

    Maybe he should be trying to legalize oxy instead… It’s a very big object that is being inserted….

    “The only reason Murphy wants to legalize pot is so you won’t feel it as much when he’s sticking it up your ass.”

  83. 3b says:

    The sheep are those who believe either party or candidate is better.

  84. Libturd sporting Tiger Wood says:

    3B yup. So sick of sh1tty choices.

  85. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Neither candidate offers any sound plan for the future. We are screwed either way. If Murphy eliminates my health care contributions, I’ll vote for him. Might as well get that $8k back that I’ve been robbed of.

  86. exJersey says:

    If Murphy shores up and protects public pension he’ll be doing it for the children…

  87. Phoenix says:

    Those of us not in government sector have been robbed of that years ago along with our pension plans turned into “cash balance” plans. Resistance is futile..

  88. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Eight months later, after having been able to reflect a bit more on the situation, does Klarman feel any better about the fact that Donald Trump is president? In a word, no. In two words, hell no. New York Magazine reports that at the Robin Hood foundation’s investment conference last week, an annual event in which investors pay around $7,500 to take in words of wisdom from the most respected minds in the industry, Klarman sounded pants-pissingly worried about 45. “The president is a threat to democracy,” Klarman said, according to an audio recording obtained by New York. “He has attacked journalists . . . He’s attacking judges. He’s violating all sorts of democratic norms, from the emoluments clause to questioning the election and threatening to lock up his opponent. People don’t focus on this, but Nazi Germany had a constitution before Hitler came to power and at the end of the war they had the exact same constitution. It lasted all the way through, but democracy didn’t.”

    Meanwhile, billionaire real-estate investor Barry Sternlicht, a friend and golfing partner of Big Orange, said that while in the past he’s been able to laugh at what a buffoon Trump is, it’s less funny to see that buffoon in the White House. “I expected him to go to the middle, because I thought he wanted to be great,” Sternlicht said of Trump in off-the-record remarks obtained by New York. “I played [golf] with Donald Trump and his golf game is like his presidency. He’s amusing as my friend, but he’s not very amusing as president of the United States. And I’m a Republican.”

  89. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “In order to sell its tax plan to the public, the White House and the G.O.P. have made a series of claims that some people—not us, of course—might characterize as lies. There’s the claim that the plan is all about giving relief to low- and middle-income families, when, in reality, it disproportionately benefits the rich. There’s the claim that eliminating the inheritance tax, which literally only effects people who are multi-millionaires or richer, will help farmers. (Earlier this month, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin admitted that scrapping the tax “obviously . . . disproportionately helps rich people,” an error for which we assume he was struck on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper.) There’s the claim that slashing the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent will ultimately benefit workers, despite the fact that many companies have literally said they’d use the tax savings “to buy back shares, retire debt, and on other shareholder-friendly moves.” But perhaps the biggest “alternative fact” the administration has peddled is the old yarn that these massive tax cuts will pay for themselves through economic growth, which the White House on Friday estimated will be somewhere between 3 and 5 percent.”

  90. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    I always considered my pension dead in the water. When I accepted my job in 2009, it was under the understanding of defined benefits that had been negotiated and defined contributions that had been in place for decades. The salary level that existed at my district was much lower than other districts so that we didn’t have to pay into healthcare. When Christie and Sweeney passed all these new contributions, they effectively prevented me from getting a raise for 6 years straight while lowering my salary. The game is rigged because you don’t get to renegotiate your own salary like you can in the private sector. As a result, I switched jobs and made up the difference. But most people aren’t in a position to do that. So they just leave the profession.

  91. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I mean it’s common sense, why would the savings from a drop in corporate tax rates go to hiring workers? Since when do corporations just give away money by creating jobs they don’t need?

  92. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And how does the elimination of the estate tax help anyone but the ultra rich?

  93. Grab them by the puzzy says:


    Just off the phone with my third reader of the day who says she (all have been women) never heard of “grab em by the p—y,” or allegations against Trump.

    “You’re making that up,” last one told me, explaining that she listens to Fox every day, so she’s up on the news.

  94. 3b says:

    But let’s forget how a sitting president clearly took advantage of a troubled bl d young woman and did it in the Oval Office Does not fit the narrative leave it out or explain it away no matter how tortuous the explanation.

  95. The Great Pumpkin says:

    San Juan mayor calls for canceling ‘alarming’ contract for Puerto Rican power repairs – Yahoo News

  96. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “Harrelson recounted a night back in 2002 when his buddy Jesse Ventura asked him to come along to a dinner party held by Trump. Trump was trying to entice Ventura to be his running mate in the 2004 election. (On the Democratic ballot, mind you.) “I went, and it was brutal,” Harrelson said. “I never met a more narcissistic man. He talked about himself the whole time. You could see the standard he was going to bear from that. I had to walk out halfway through to smoke a joint just to, like, steel myself for the rest of it.””

  97. exJersey says:

    5:38. Eddie would smoke President Trump’s joint.

  98. exJersey says:

    3:11…tasteless? Yes. Pathetic? Indeed. But Consensual.

  99. grim says:

    Consent is not possible in the situation. Shocker to say, but something I firmly believe. Not possible.

  100. chicagofinance says:

    No step-up in tax basis on death…..then it becomes an issue of cap gains tax, not estate tax…..changes the dynamic….and potentially allows the collection of much more tax since few actually pay estate taxes (even the ultra rich, because they have ultra rich lawyers).

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    October 28, 2017 at 10:26 am
    And how does the elimination of the estate tax help anyone but the ultra rich?

  101. Phoenix says:

    Chifi, how does this affect life insurance?

  102. Fabius Maximus says:

    “Consent is not possible in the situation.” Yes it is and Law and HR policies are written to cover it.

  103. Fabius Maximus says:

    No step-up in tax basis on death

    The only thing that saved us the last time round. Remember George Steinbrenner shuffling off hos mortal coil and Hal and the family dodging the 500Mil Tax Bill?
    The only reason they are still owners is that they don’t want to pay the tax. Their number to see includes the buyer picking up that nut.

  104. Fabius Maximus says:

    Didn’t see much discussion in here on this.

    Grab the popcorn Monday it’s all about to kick off. I expect some low hanging fruit and the Snowball will start from there.

  105. grim says:

    So who is getting arrested?

  106. grim says:

    “Consent is not possible in the situation.” Yes it is and Law and HR policies are written to cover it.

    Sure, and Weinstein can argue that every situation was consentual.

  107. Fabius Maximus says:

    So when my CEO, left his wife and married the CFO (his subordinate), are you saying that was not and could not be Consensual?

  108. leftwing says:

    LOL, Fabs. That’s right, take the absolutely least relevant example to make an anology.

    Clinton consensual? Ha. The CEO of the Country took a young intern into a room off his office and she performed fe11atio on him. While his wife and young daughter were upstairs. It was sooo consensual he then repeatedly lied about it, enough to engender charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. That is all aside from the actual sexual harassment lawsuits filed against him by employees in Arkansas.

    Trump *says* you can grab them and the left go stratospheric. Remind me, how many sexual assault cases have been filed against Trump?

    Keep making these false comparisons. Again, I sincerely mean it. Every time you do undecided voters come our way.

  109. leftwing says:

    As an example, remember how important those normally Republican upscale suburban PA women were? I was out there during the debate where Trump had threatened to bring up Clinton’s indiscretions.

    By the way, threatening and not doing it was absolutely brilliant. If he did it the entire discussion would have been whether that was appropriate or not. By having the threat but not the action most of the focus was on Bill.

    The visual during the debate was Clinton sitting in someone’s box, really p1ssy look on his face. Announcer is voicing over “will he or won’t he”. Woman at the home I was in looks at Clinton on the TV screen and direct quote “I can’t believe she [Chelsea] lets him hold her daughter. He’s so creepy.”

    LOLOL. Keep banging on what Trump *said*. Please.

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