C19 Open Discussion Week 8b

NJ’s First “reopening” weekend – the last three data points on the chart are Friday, Saturday (peak), and Sunday. Saturday was clearly the most mobile day since mid-March. Will be interesting to see this develop over the next few weeks.

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212 Responses to C19 Open Discussion Week 8b

  1. grim says:

    So how long is New Jersey actually planning to wait? Until the hole is too deep to get out of.

    N.J. facing ‘fiscal disaster’ that’s just weeks away from coronavirus pandemic, Murphy says

  2. grim says:

    Seems we got the Murphy seal of approval for this weekend.

    Frankly, the most egregious behavior I witnessed on Sunday was in Montclair. Shocker.

    Hey N.J., we passed the no-knuckleheads test! Parks to stay open, Murphy says

  3. grim says:

    California, Illinois, and Conn. running out of unemployment funds, borrow from the government.

    NJ up next.

  4. grim says:

    Current burn rate on the NJ UI fund is around $800-900 million a month. We will pass 1 million unemployed in NJ this week. There are some estimates that there are approximately 200,000 people who have applied, are being counted, but have not had funds distributed due to system issues. If we include those, and gig workers, we could easily push north of a billion burn rate a month. This DOES NOT include federal cares act funds redistributed through NJ UI.

  5. grim says:

    Y’all reserve your campers and RV’s for the summer yet? Get on it, hot hot hot.

  6. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “In the next 12 months it’s hard to anticipate price declines because of the mortgage forbearance in place,” said Lawrence Yun, NAR’s chief economist. “You would have to see continuing job losses for a prolonged period leading to foreclosures, and even then we may not have oversupply.” -wsj


  7. Yo! says:

    Fulop on CNN talking up Jersey City reopen. Did well on show.

  8. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Said Murphy was great and the right pick from day one…he’s doing a hell of a job. He is playing the game of politics like a pro…playing the hand he was dealt like a champ. Guy is a born leader. Hope he is the first politician to actually get money from the fed for nj.

    “We don’t see it as a bailout,” Murphy said at the meeting. “We see this as a partnership doing the right thing in what is the worst health care crisis in the history of our nation. And I want to again thank the president for an extraordinary spirit of partnership across the whole spectrum of our needs.”

    Trump didn’t say whether he would support Murphy’s request, though he did say, “You can’t have a better representative than this man.”

  9. Juice Box says:

    Mortgage forbearance?

    It went from 1 million to 4 million in forbearance in one month!


  10. Juice Box says:

    re: hole is too deep? State took in March $1.888 billion in revenues, up $66.3 million, or 3.6 percent above last March 2019.

    Are state tax revenues down a $800 Million – $1Billion in a single month? He did not say and is asking for up to $30 Billion from the Feds?

    April tax revenue report should be out soon.


  11. FakeNewsHoaxes says:

    Campers and RVs will be hot but they are not for everyone. If you are parked stationary it’s one thing. If you are on the move its A PITA. Cooking, cleaning, upkeep. Not to mention they are not luxurious.

    NJ has not reopened camping in the parks which is baffling. Open them up for gods sake.

    In general, I think beach towns should be declared open to healthy only. 50 or under with no underlying conditions. Take some precautions such as reducing occupancy. Otherwise let it roll.

    Outer banks will be on fire. Everything is naturally distant. Sparse crowds and expansive beaches. So will all of the New England cottages.

  12. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    I think people magically decided this weekend they don’t need any approval to do anything. I rode past a pickup basketball game at the local park. My one neighbor was all dressed up and carrying a tray of food like she’s going to a pot luck bbq. Contractors are doing work left and right in the neighborhood right now. MIL decided she’s free to go to Wal-Mart to shop for cheap Chinese made crap. Kids are all playing together in the neighborhood again.

  13. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    In general, I think beach towns should be declared open to healthy only. 50 or under with no underlying conditions. Take some precautions such as reducing occupancy. Otherwise let it roll.

    Heh, I wonder how a 50 and under policy would fly in a town like Ocean Grove.

  14. Juice Box says:

    no state bailout anytime soon. This will drag on for a while.

    Pelosi has not reconvened the house, they may not be back until June and they are resisting all efforts to allow vote by phone or vote by video call or vote by proxy.

  15. 3b says:

    Juice Don’t worry they are in forbearance, house prices won’t go down.

  16. Fat Fast Eddie says:

    Unfortunately, some may have to sacrifice for the sake of others. It counters with what’s right or Constitutionally right but in a time of war, sacrifices need to be made. If you’re older than 50 (that’s me) and need to take medication daily to regulate some condition, then you need to hunker down and allow the younger and healthier folks with kids get back to normal.

  17. Juice Box says:

    3b – no worries. The US Treasury plans to borrow it to make up for it. Everyone reach into your couch and pull out some spare change.

    “CNBC’s Kayla Tausche reports that the U.S. Treasury will borrow $3 trillion this quarter, nearly six times the nearest record quarter back in 2008.”

    Borrow 3 Trillon is funny, South Park kind of funny unless Aliens land with some space cash there is nobody lending 3 Trillion.

    From the last crisis South Park Classic April 2009!


  18. FakeNewsHoaxes says:

    BRT come if you want. It’s a free country. Just don’t expect enforcement of any policies that interfere with functioning society. Stay clear if you are at risk.

  19. Juice Box says:

    Eddie – Trying to use reason with mouth breathers? They need to be welded into their homes and tracked with ankle monitors.

  20. Hold my beer says:

    Why doesn’t New Jersey and the municipalities do furloughs? Every other Friday all non emergency personnel are given an unpaid day off. The employees could keep their benefits and get 90% of their income and slow the burn rate for the government. Why wait months into a shutdown to do something and lay off 10% or more of the government workforce and put more strain on the economy?

  21. 3b says:

    Juice Yeah borrow, that’s a good one. At some point it’s all going to be slashed and deflated away. 50 percent across the board.

  22. Juice Box says:

    Beer – it’s all family here, your furlough someone well they are usually a cousin so it does not go well at the family gatherings. Better to stiff the taxpayers.

  23. Juice Box says:

    Seems like Trump’s got his own little bay of pigs going on in Venezuela.

    Does anyone even care?

  24. Hold my beer says:


    Do you think local and state are planning on getting a fed bailout so they are doing nothing besides complaining about dire finances?

  25. No One says:

    From age 5 to 13 my family had a motor home. It was fun for me at the time because my aunt and uncle had one and we were members in a “camping club” in Florida and it was a chance for me to visit my older cousins a couple weekends per month. But RV parks generally are really boring. You might get a pool and a playground, or you might just get a bunch of old coots shooting the breeze. I’m glad I never had to drive one, because even getting in and out of a gas station can be a pain. Will actual scenic national parks be open and worth visiting?
    Anyway, none of my family members are outdoor adventurers. I plan to try to play more golf now that my club has re-opened. Pretty elitist for Gov M to allow golf to open but not tennis. I’ll bet a can of lysol sprayed on the balls once in a while, combined with some judgment can make even doubles safe. The USTA came up with a protocol for play months ago, but then shut down like most things. Government suddenly assumes every adult is a three year old, making them undeserving of their inalienable rights.

  26. Fat Fast Eddie says:

    Eddie – Trying to use reason with mouth breathers? They need to be welded into their homes and tracked with ankle monitors.

    I previously said we should monitor and act according to BMI and IQ. Perhaps we need to factor in age as well. Some will simply need to sacrifice.

  27. 3b says:

    Juice That should be interesting. Surprised he has not been overthrown yet.

  28. Libturd, the Master Beta says:

    In three weeks, you’ll all understand why the masses can’t be trusted.

    I’ve been watching Sweden closely. The jury is still out on racing to herd immunity. The death rate has been quite high, but there are so many variables, it’s impossible to really evaluate until they are through as the rate could be lower the rest of the way. None the less, many of those who thought it would be easy to sacrifice the old and medically feeble are second-guessing their decisions.

    I expect June to be the saddest month in our history. I do hope I’m wrong. I’ll be watching from inside and helping those on the outside the best I can.

  29. Fabius Maximus says:

    Pg 10 and 11, by Jun 1st 200K cases per day and 3K deaths.


    At this point I’m planning a long summer home.

  30. Juice Box says:

    Beer – sure. Plan is ask for bailout. If that plan fails next plan is to pick taxpayers pocket.

    Case in-point New Jersey. I am waiting to see how bad it will be when the April tax receipts report comes out perhaps next week. If revenues declined 40% then well it means a sudden and total failure from which recovery of those “lost” the tax revenues is well impossible.

    I also imagine that if this new paradigm continues where a large percentage of the workforce no longer leaves home, and is either unemployed or telecommuting well that presents an insurmountable challenge for future tax revenues. Fuel tax, sales tax income tax, tolls and fees etc all way way down, no bailout will help that. We could see another massive wave of layoffs. There are 22 million employed by Federal, State and local governments of which only 2 million work for the Federal Government.

    Another 5 million layoffs in the government sector of the workforce? Too soon to tell….but there has to be layoffs to makeup for it without another bailout.

  31. leftwing says:

    “In general, I think beach towns should be declared open to healthy only. 50 or under with no underlying conditions.”

    Guess I’ll have to fire up the old fake ID machine from HS. Instead of making 16 year olds 18, I’ll need to make grandpa into dad.

  32. leftwing says:

    “Pg 10 and 11, by Jun 1st 200K cases per day and 3K deaths.”

    Cases are statistically irrelevant. Too much variability and noise in the data set. More simply, comparing apples to oranges.

    Any analysis over time needs discrete, constant events. Hospitalizations, intubations, or deaths.

  33. Juice Box says:

    I live a 15 minute drive from the beach, allot of my neighbors are members of various beach clubs in Sea Bright. Private parking, little to no street parking, beaches are generally less crowded, kids activities, food and beverage, tennis, pools, etc. Best bet this year for your stay-cation is to get a membership and avoid the other more crowded beaches. Starts at about $3,500 for the season.

  34. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Maybe we just go back to the 99 week unemployment people like we had in 2008. I had a buddy that said it was the best 2 years of his life. Money kept coming in and he traveled the country.

  35. FakeNewsHoaxes says:

    What happens in 3 weeks? Game changer? Beginning of the end? Oh sorry, wrong hoax.

  36. leftwing says:

    Lib, thanks for the thoughtful response yesterday. I think I understand our point of difference which you stated fairly clearly. On why not just quarantine the at-risk you said because it’s not politically feasible. It seems (don’t want to put words in your mouth) that if one is then faced with two remaining alternatives – the soft lockdown of everyone or no response – you opt for the soft lockdown.

    I would be in total agreement with you if I accepted those two alternatives as the only options.

    I have a personality flaw, I don’t accept ‘political compromises’ well in the face of hard facts. Especially when those political compromises involve actual politicians as opposed to, say, workplace issues. Lol. Seriously. I have paid a certain price through my career for that world view, so I’m not kidding when I say it’s a personality flaw.

    In that context you already know my answers to the questions you asked…

    “Answer me THIS question, since I know you will. Are you cool with everyone running out and getting sick since most won’t die?” No. Absolutely not.

    “Do you really think our healthcare system is not about to be overwhelmed?”

    It’s up to us. This virus is one of many (HIV comes to mind) where the actions of an at risk individual is in direct control of whether they contract the virus.

    If old, ill people hard quarantine – understanding that their risk profile has not changed at all from when there was a soft lockdown to now – then the healthcare system will be fine. If old, ill people congregate we may very well start to push capacity (which is why Javits was mothballed, not disassembled).

    Making the policy decision to do a soft lockdown of everyone rather than hard quarantine of just at risk will ensure more hospitalizations than what otherwise would have been the case, for sure. But likely less than just letting everyone roam free.

  37. leftwing says:

    Two other random items that may be of interest to people that I don’t have the time to look up references….

    Death counts are being revised to include ‘probable’ cases. There was a dustup on the West Coast when a drug OD was classified as C19 simply because the dead man was positive on expiration. Just saw on the news as I’m typing here that NYC is adding 1700 to their C19 toll from nursing homes due to people who weren’t tested but ‘presumed’ to have died from C19. Watch these items, even the most measurable of data (death) is getting contaminated.

    Pay attention to the data coming from the USS Roosevelt carrier. Gottlieb again referenced results from there. Given he uses this data regularly I’m guessing officials are looking at it closely, as they should be. It is the perfect controlled scientific study. Headline stat was I believe one death out of the 1100+ sailors who tested positive.

    CNBC referenced a poll showing that people’s “fear of congregating closely with others” went from 53% a couple weeks ago to the low 30s now. Of course the risk of contraction has not diminished. Lib may see his echo curve.

    Have a good day all.

  38. I recently read an article on the trend of declining commercial property prices in Europe. For better or worse, time will tell. The advantages are that commercial real estate is becoming more affordable, obvious, but the question arises of a small business that is now losing money.

  39. chicagofinance says:

    Update from The Human Cut-In-Half Magazine:

    A man wandering the PATH in Manhattan was sliced in half by an oncoming train early Tuesday, Port Authority officials said.

    The victim, who had walked the tracks from 23rd Street, was attempting to find cover as the train approached the 33rd Street Station, an agency rep said.

    A source said the body’s separate halves were left lying opposite one another in the northbound and southbound tracks.

    It was not clear what the man was doing on the tracks.

  40. Hold my beer says:

    The end is nearer. And this is the generation that will have to deal with the collapse of society as we know it


  41. Libturd, the Master Beta says:

    After watching that video. I would say they are getting what they deserve.

  42. NJCoast says:

    Juice- It hasn’t been decided if the beach clubs will open this summer. They certainly won’t be opening Memorial Day. The mayors of the shore towns in Monmouth county are trying to coordinate beach policy. How will the clubs handle restrooms? The snack bars and restaurants? The kids social distancing?
    The beach club I go to insisted everybody pay for this summer or they’ll lose their facility to the next on the waiting list. The town uses a good portion of the fees to offset property taxes. If they have to refund members it’s going to blow up the municipal budget.

  43. Fat Fast Eddie says:

    Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie said on Monday that the American economy needs to reopen quickly and that tens of thousands of more Americans may die from the novel coronavirus, insisting that Americans are “gonna have to” accept that.


  44. No One says:

    Maybe that Wuhan lab was playing with two different diseased bats. Then one infected guy went to the 30,000 seat banquet in Wuhan, while another flew to Milan. Nobody knows for sure, except for some people probably already dead or whose families would be under that threat.

  45. Hold my beer says:

    Texas hair salons, barbershops, and nail salons to reopen Friday. If waiting customers can’t be separated by at least 6 feet they have to wait in their cars.

    “Abbott said it’s up to Texans to practice social distancing by staying 6 feet apart from others and practice good hygiene.
    “It’s up to Texans whether we remain open,” Abbott said.”


    Meanwhile Dallas County, second most populous county in Texas had another record number of new cases.

    “DCHHS said about 79% of those hospitalized with COVID-19 work in critical infrastruction, while 65% of cases that required hospitalization were in people under 65 years old.”


  46. No One says:

    Speaking of Chinese lying, did anyone else watch the movie “The China Hustle”. It’s about Chinese reverse takeovers of US listings promoted by third rate investment banks that blatantly lied about their financials, and the short sellers who uncovered the fraud. One of whom recently uncovered perhaps the biggest yet, Luckin Coffee.
    Right now it’s on Hulu.

  47. Libturd says:

    I saw Big Trouble in Little China recently.

    I blame Lo Pan.

  48. juice Box says:

    Picking up some eggs today one item ran into the local rite aid, thought it would be quick hit and run well no way Jose. I ran into wheelchair Betty, land whale Marlboro Mary, coupon clipping Cathy and Oompha Loompah Andy all in line at the store, stocking up on chips, Pepsi and cancer sticks. all I wanted was some damm eggs and I had to wait in line with this bunch.

    There will be lots of dancing coffins, these people need to be locked away and given vouchers for free food delivery.

  49. Juice Box says:

    This is rich……now Sweeney wants to bailout the NJ pensions with Federal “loans” that he apparently will pay back…

    “Sweeney’s proposal to help New Jersey’s public pension system relies on getting $500 billion in low-interest loans, not handouts, from the federal government.
    “We don’t expect the federal government – nor should they – to bail us out,” Sweeney, D-Gloucester, said Monday at a Star-Ledger editorial board meeting. “It’s not a bailout if I’m paying it back. This is something we pay back.”

    And the pension funds would invest some of the money they save in interest costs in infrastructure, which Trump has said he wants to include in the next coronavirus stimulus package now being drafted on Capitol Hill.”

  50. grim says:

    Taking loans to pay pensions? How does that math work?

  51. Phoenix says:

    He only wants to borrow 500 Billion.

    Dr Evil held the whole world ransom for only 100 Billion dollars.


  52. Hold my beer says:

    He should ask for 800 billion so he can fix the toads and abbot schools too, throw in a few bike lanes for east orange and Camden as well.

  53. grim says:

    All the talk about underemployment, multiple jobs, out of the last recession – all of these about to be revisited.

  54. Grim says:

    Adp numbers horrible, 20 million job losses in April.

  55. No One says:

    Hey who worries about debt anymore? Krugman and AOC say “we owe it to ourselves” so no big deal.
    That’s like me borrowing a million from Libturd, spending it on whatever, and then saying, hey, among this group, you and me, we owe it to ourselves, so stop bugging me about interest and principal. You, me, what’s the difference? We’re all Americans.

  56. Chicago says:

    Truth? Your people told us it was work.

  57. Fat Fast Eddie says:


    What does that article have to do with an election in November?

  58. D-FENS says:

    Uhhhh guys….

    Researcher ‘on verge of making very significant’ coronavirus findings shot to death
    The Pennsylvania researcher “was on the verge of making very significant findings toward understanding the cellular mechanisms that underlie” COVID-19, his university said.


  59. Bystander says:


    Where was Hillary at the time of the shooting? Probably plotted this with Obama. Time to raid the underground pizza parlor.

  60. Libturdamus says:

    It was the deep steak.

  61. 3b says:

    Fab Yeah Donnie might be out, and we will have St. Biden as President, and all well
    across the land.

  62. Bystander says:

    Hah, Lib. Good one.

    On job front, sh*t is starting to get real the H1B folks. Our favorite vendor has somany folks sitting on the bench and they are trying every sales tactic in the book to get us to hire them. Guy called me three times on Monday for ok candidate we interviewed on Friday. He said “guy has other offers” “you can’t hold people up” and “you should be able to make a decision after one interview”. After I told him to let candidate go elsewhere he finally said “listen, the guy will have to go back to India unless we get him a role immediately”. Boo hoo. Don’t be a-hole

  63. Fat Fast Eddie says:

    After I told him to let candidate go elsewhere he finally said “listen, the guy will have to go back to India unless we get him a role immediately”

    Tell the guy to tell the candidate not to let the airplane door hit him in the @ss.

  64. Fat Fast Eddie says:

    More than 200,000 H1B workers are facing the prospect of losing legal status by the end of June 2020, according to immigration policy analysts.

    Gotta get a tissue to wipe away my tears. Not.

  65. leftwing says:

    Cuomo presser live….

    He asked hospitals to dive into background data behind recent days’ admissions…

    96% of admissions had co-morbidities. 66% came from home (vs prisons, nursing homes, etc). Only 17% were working outside the house.

    The governor was “surprised” by the home number.

    Good thing we all sheltered at home rather than, say, hard quarantined the at-risk population who for all practical purposes were the only ones admitted.

    Again, when the history of this event is written the lack of logic, reason, and foresight of the actions actually taken given the facts in hand at the time will be shown to be nearly downright negligent.

  66. ExEssex says:

    AS DONALD TRUMP vows to save the economy amid the global pandemic, while the number of Americans filing for unemployment has skyrocketed to 30 million, the Tennessee Valley Authority, or TVA, the nation’s largest government-owned power provider, has announced plans to outsource 20 percent of its highly-skilled technology workforce to Capgemini, CGI, and Accenture — companies based in France, Canada, and Ireland respectively.

    At least 120 workers have already learned they will be losing their jobs later this summer, and the TVA has informed the engineers’ union that another 100 jobs are likely on the chopping block. Affected workers were told in late April to prepare to train their own replacements, according to an email reviewed by The Intercept.

  67. ExEssex says:

    Companies owned by Brad Parscale — the president’s confident and combative campaign manager — have already collected nearly $40 million this cycle.
    Parscale was doing coding and website design for the Trump Organization pre-2016, but from January 2017 to the end of March, he got $38.9 million through those companies, according to FEC filings reviewed for a new HuffPost report.
    Most presidential campaign managers make low six figure salaries, with Mike Bloomberg’s being on the high end at $198,547.
    Parscale has made some notable purchases, including a Ferarri, a Range Rover, a $400,000 boat, two million dollar condos and a $2.4 million waterfront house in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

  68. leftwing says:

    Oh, and here’s a good one….

    At a small gathering yesterday. A friend there just came back from a PT appointment. Here’s the background….

    Close to 60 years old. Multiple co-morbidities. Well documented heart condition. High susceptibility to illness (EBV, etc). Weight issues. And the icing on the cake current and lifelong smoker.

    This person’s procedure was one of the last elective surgeries (rotator cuff) performed in the county before hospitals closed. Procedure done well after C19 was rampant, mid-March. Went ahead despite knowing the risks because “if I wait I would be in a sling for the shore”. Then, yesterday, heads out of the house with all the contact – including hands on at the PT – for therapy.

    So glad for Murphy’s lockdown ‘protecting’ all of us.

    He and I would have been at extreme risk if I personally were able to, say, go to driving range. Good thing the ranges are closed. Whew, guess we both dodged a bullet there.

    Fcuking idiots. Dumbass humans and our moron governor. Should take him, everyone C19 positive, and idiots like the above and lock them all in American Nightmare Mall for three weeks to “work it all out”.

    The idiocy and ineffectiveness of these soft lockdowns cannot be overstated.

  69. Bystander says:


    Part of me wants to. I am so tired of the global visa stamping non-sense and corp red tape that comes with it. All of it to say some money. The human side says lots of H1B people suffering. I hate corp and govt. wh*res have allowed programs to be abused yet no one seems to care. That article by Ex not even picked up by major media. If they wanted to be useful, start reporting on these sleazy CEO/COO/CTOs who are abusing US worker.

  70. Hold my beer says:


    You gotta pay up for quality . He only hires the best.

  71. leftwing says:

    “Taking loans to pay pensions? How does that math work?”

    Cash account increases, loan to Treasury increases.
    Loan from Treasury forgiven, balance goes to zero. Fed prints the cash.

    The financially inept pigs in NJ tried raiding the Treasury to pay their liabilities directly and get slapped down. Much easier to borrow than beg and then ‘forgive’ something already on the books.

    The two step.

  72. ExEssex says:

    12:21 the dude is having a banner year.

  73. leftwing says:

    “The truth will set you free but not get Donnie re-elected.”

    Fabs, you still don’t get it. Your vote and your opinion on anything in this election cycle is entirely irrelevant. Totally meaningless.

    Watch the video on the link below. These are the people that matter. Look at the stats on the first chart, the “Shelter at Home” and “Wearing Masks” bars. Look at everything on the second chart, holy sh1t the salons.

    Many people may not like my views on here regarding the C19 response. But, I can assure you, my voice is the exact same tone as the people in these six decisive states. Acknowledge or not I don’t care. But if you think the opinion of some major metropolitan centrists/leftists and the MSM matters at all in the next election when these populations are expressing opinions like the below you should be prepared to be sorely disappointed on Nov 3.


  74. Phoenix says:

    Arthur Andersen was the name when I first remember meeting with them and knew how dirty they were.
    Then Andersen Consulting.
    Now Accenture.

    Wonder what “A” name they will come up with next.

  75. Fat Fast Eddie says:


    The human side says lots of H1B people suffering.

    Oh well. It’s just how I feel. I was a sensitive cat at one time… not s much anymore.
    And I agree with you about the corps and the govt. not caring. We’ve discussed this before. I’m trying really hard not to be cynical not just about jobs/careers but about everything. A certain event in my life this past year has made it worse. No one is going to care about you but yourself. I don’t want to get too philosophical but I’ve taken the approach that everything in ones personal and professional life should be done with a sense of urgency and with a chip on ones shoulder. More than ever, I pretend that it’s a ‘me against the world’ mentality. That mindset has landed me a promotion this past week, the 2nd in 3 years and I was recruited this week by a firm establishing a presence in the NY metro area that would increase my salary by 50%. How ironic.

  76. Phoenix says:

    “with a chip on ones shoulder.” Well if the roles were reversed like in this commercial you would be doing jail time.


  77. chicagofinance says:

    Trump lost me yesterday permanently. Not that I was a fan, but fcuk him. You can’t will this sh!t to go away. I am really wondering now with Pompeo. We need to go at China and nail their a%%es to the wall. This two bit salesman crap is not going to win him the middle, and further, it weakens our standing against China if there is a whiff of bullsh!t in anything we say.

    WTF is happening here? Biden is worthless too. If he names Warren as VP, we are totally fcuked…….

  78. leftwing says:

    What’d I miss yesterday?

  79. Phoenix says:

    “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”
    That’s my guess.

  80. 3b says:

    How does the TVA a corporation owned by the Federal government outsource jobs overseas? It’s wrong?

  81. ExEssex says:

    1:12 we’re f’ed regardless. Welcome to the land of reduced expectations.
    Table for 4…? Right this way.

  82. 3b says:

    Fast why did you add Fat to your handle? Just curious.

  83. bf says:

    Pompeo is intriguing.

    RADDATZ: Do you believe it was manmade or genetically modified?
    POMPEO: Look, the best experts so far seem to think it was manmade. I have no reason to disbelieve that at this point.
    RADDATZ: Your — your Office of the DNI says the consensus, the scientific consensus was not manmade or genetically modified.
    POMPEO: That’s right. I — I — I agree with that. Yes. I’ve — I’ve seen their analysis. I’ve seen the summary that you saw that was released publicly. I have no reason to doubt that that is accurate at this point.
    RADDATZ: OK, so just to be clear, you do not think it was manmade or genetically modified?
    POMPEO: I’ve seen what the intelligence community has said. I have no reason to believe that they’ve got it wrong.

  84. ExEssex says:

    12:59 I guess all the middle school reading has finally paid off!!
    Congratulations! Trump “must” be doing a good job. Hell, this fellas winnin’

  85. Bystander says:


    What a sh*tshow on both ends. Warren is puke level selection. Need new energy. I still feel Haley gets VP and Dumpy waiting to see if woman selected on other side. There was no other reason for her to step down from Boeing.


    I work closely with so many that I see the game being played on them. It is a sham but one they have no choice. I would love to see your resume as I have not had sniff from recruiter on LinkedIn for two months. Nada. LoanIQ expert email several times a day though,

  86. Fat Fast Eddie says:


    I would love to see your resume as I have not had sniff from recruiter on LinkedIn for two months.

    Without saying too much, I work in a really specialized field and it’s difficult to find people. :)

  87. Fat Fast Eddie says:


    12:59 I guess all the middle school reading has finally paid off!!
    Congratulations! Trump “must” be doing a good job. Hell, this fellas winnin’

    I’ve read about 20 books so far this year. I’m not sure what you mean by middle school reading.

  88. Juice box says:

    more good news, effective treatment using cloned antibodies possibly by the end of the Summer.


  89. Fat Fast Eddie says:


    Because I’m FAT!!

  90. 3b says:

    Fast did you get fat during this lockdown??!!

  91. FakeNewsHoaxes says:

    I said early on, the US will lose a few mil population over the next couple years. You’ll lose 5x illegals for each H1B. The Mexicans have already started sending their savings home in advance of the trek.

  92. Libturd says:

    Ooh, I can’t wait for all of those hard working-immigrants to leave. Mexican food is going to suck, lettuce will be $5/head. Strawberries and blueberries, forget about it. I might go long lawnmowers and dust cloths.

  93. Hold my beer says:

    Maybe the unemployed millenial baristas who were sober curious because they occasionally drink will become undocumented worker curious and harvest produce, mow lawns, and do lots of other work young Americans used to do pre Reagan while going to school or looking for a better job.

  94. Libturd says:

    Millennials pick flowers. Not berries.

  95. ExEssex says:

    The coronavirus that emerged in Wuhan, China, has mutated and the new, dominant strain spreading across the U.S. appears to be even more contagious, according to a new study.
    The new strain began spreading in Europe in early February before migrating to other parts of the world, including the U.S., becoming the dominant form of the virus across the globe by the end of March, researchers at the Los Alamos National Laboratory wrote.
    If the coronavirus doesn’t subside in the summer like the seasonal flu, it could mutate further and potentially limit the effectiveness of the coronavirus vaccines being developed by scientists, the researchers warned.

    And now: https://youtu.be/RTzb-sduiWc

  96. Phoenix says:

    If I could be a Superhero
    I’d be Immigration Dude
    I’d send all the foreigners back to their homes
    For eating up all of our food
    For taking our welfare and best jobs to boot
    Like landscaping, dishwashing, picking our fruit
    I’d pass lots of laws to get rid of their brood
    Because I would be Immigration Dude

    Stephen lynch Superhero.

  97. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    I’m pretty sure Mexican food won’t suck. Most of those joints are owned by people legally here.

  98. joyce says:

    I never understood this sentiment. Businesses and Consumers don’t have an any right to cheap(er) food. We either have to pay more, deal with less supply… or grant amnesty AND repeal a lot of laws so employers can still pay the low wages/no benefits.

    Libturd says:
    May 6, 2020 at 2:47 pm
    Ooh, I can’t wait for all of those hard working-immigrants to leave. Mexican food is going to suck, lettuce will be $5/head. Strawberries and blueberries, forget about it. I might go long lawnmowers and dust cloths.

  99. ExEssex says:

    Therein lies the rub. Largely Conservative farmers need slave labor (low wage/ no benefits) to actually employ their time-tested business model. Otherwise, the whole house of cards falls.

  100. Hold my beer says:

    UK professor lockdown resigns after breaking rules to meet married lover. Lol

    You can’t make this stuff up


  101. leftwing says:

    “Murphy just extended his orders another month, 1st week of June.”

    Thank God! I feel so much safer now!

    “more good news, effective treatment using cloned antibodies possibly by the end of the Summer.”

    No fcuking way I’m putting in my body any first generation vaccine or therapy (unless I’m literally on my deathbed). Not a chance.

  102. Hold my beer says:

    Without cheap slave labor we wouldn’t be able to afford to waste half of our food.

  103. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Isn’t that crazy, it creates distortions in the economy. Labor is so cheap, it’s better to throw away the food than it is to do something economically efficient with it.

    Hold my beer says:
    May 6, 2020 at 4:03 pm
    Without cheap slave labor we wouldn’t be able to afford to waste half of our food.

  104. Hold my beer says:

    Think of how much ground water and fertilizers and fuel gets wasted growing the stuff and bringing it to market and the methane gas created from it rotting away in a landfill. The green crowd should focus on that instead of feeling morally superior for using some renewable energy without understanding the carbon costs that go into creating that energy.

  105. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Pensions will be bailed out by the fed…. I’m pretty damn sure. Why? Wall Street and govts need pension funds. Those pensions loan a lot of money to govt through bond purchases and they play into the stock market to feed wall st/hedge funds as well as add a huge buyer (buyer support) to the stock market.

    It’s getting bailed out…

  106. leftwing says:

    Serious question about millennials.

    Why do they always have a guitar on a stand by the fireplace or hanging on the wall?

    So many work-at-home TV correspondents in their 30s have it. Cuts across gender and politics. And it’s in the camera shot. WTF?

    Not a poke at millennials, I actual like them, it’s just one of those weird things that you see a couple times and think “hmmm” and then see all over and wonder “what the hell?”.

  107. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And that’s why they keep robbing, I mean reforming, the pension system. They want to keep the funds alive. They don’t care about the worker, otherwise they wouldn’t have robbed it or keep on lowering the value of the payouts. Same with social security, devalue the sh!t out of the payout, but maintain that revenue source for Uncle Sam that doesn’t fall under the label of taxes.

  108. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    All my greenie neighbors have four times as much recycling and twice the waste as my family does. People these days feel that having good opinions makes them righteous instead of walking the walk.

  109. The Great Pumpkin says:


    No one talks about that. And they won’t…they want to save the world while at the same time expecting it a cheap cost. Dream on…

  110. No One says:

    High wages with low welfare and low taxes would be great for me and other 1percenters. Paying $20 for a burrito or $10 for a latte isn’t a big spending difference. $2000 IPhone, no problem either. Taxes are my biggest expenses by far. On the other hand, the higher priced stuff is a much bigger deal for the working poor, they could easily come out behind even after their wages rise, because they spend most of their incomes on this stuff. Retirees lose the most – their incomes don’t go up but they expenses do.

  111. No One says:

    Who is left, Justin Amash?
    If Trump dies in the next few months, who is the nominee- Pence, the path of least resistance. If Biden dies, Bernie?

  112. chicagofinance says:

    It is going to be cold…. reason…. same as always…. global warming…

  113. chicagofinance says:

    My spending is way, way, way down since the lockdown….. can’t help it.

    That said, I’ve had some of the craziest grocery receipts of all time. I’m kind of the opinion to just fcuk it and buy what we need. Prices be damned.

    That said, I am SICKENED by all of these older, well off, or otherwise modestly impacted liberals who genuflect at Fauci (who is tremendous and a role model for the country), and do not understand that there needs to be a balance between health and the economy.

    Where is the arbiter? Where is the adult in the room? Can’t we have a sensible conversation? We can’t have the MSNBC thought vacuum held by people sitting in their homes collecting their pensions, social security and otherwise counting their money. Meanwhile we have talk of structural racism, disparate impact of the health crises etc. etc…… don’t sit on your couch watching MSNBC and counting your money. Go the front line and volunteer you forked tongued clowns…… and shut up about Trump….. I know he is an a%%hole, but so are you.

    No One says:
    May 6, 2020 at 4:36 pm
    On the other hand, the higher priced stuff is a much bigger deal for the working poor, they could easily come out behind even after their wages rise, because they spend most of their incomes on this stuff. Retirees lose the most – their incomes don’t go up but they expenses do.

  114. Haveyoubashed AboomerBraintoday says:

    Lefty, is to have something handy whether a tough string to choke or a hard guitar to bash over the head of their boomer parents at the appropriate moment. Whether is Wuhan virus wave 2- 3-4 or if a “Purge” night is declared.

    leftwing says:
    May 6, 2020 at 4:32 pm
    Serious question about millennials.
    Why do they always have a guitar on a stand by the fireplace or hanging on the wall?
    So many work-at-home TV correspondents in their 30s have it. Cuts across gender and politics. And it’s in the camera shot. WTF?

  115. leftwing says:

    “Lefty, is to have something handy whether a tough string to choke or a hard guitar to bash over the head of their boomer parents at the appropriate moment. Whether is Wuhan virus wave 2- 3-4 or if a “Purge” night is declared.”

    Piano would be more efficient both for string strangling and head bashing. Too many bad memories on there though I guess compliments of their boomer parents.

  116. Joe Black says:

    Yrs, Trump was awful yesterday. Outrageous!


    And I just want to thank all of the people at this incredible company and this incredible plant. This pandemic has underscored the vital importance of reshoring our supply chains and constructing a powerful domestic manufacturing base. I’ve been talking about that for a long time. Oftentimes, you’d see a plant like this in a different country, doing the work you could be doing. And you’ll do it better.

    The United States declared its independence nearly 250 years ago, but in recent decades, Washington politicians allowed our independence to be offshored, outsourced, and ceded to foreign countries.

    But we’re taking it back, and we’ve been taking it back. When you look at our job numbers, you knew that — we were taking it back. When we got up to almost 160 million, something had to be happening. One of the things that happened was we were taking it back. We know it matters where something is made, and we want essential medicines, supplies, and equipment to be manufactured, produced, and made right here in the good old USA.

    My administration believes in two simple rules: Buy American and hire American. In the 20th century, Honeywell workers helped make America the world’s greatest manufacturing superpower. This is a great company, and it played a very big role.

    Now in the 21st century, right here in Phoenix, Arizona, you’re reclaiming the noble heritage and writing the next chapter of this incredible American story. And you have a great governor to lead your way, and you have a great senator to lead your way. You have a lot of people that are leading your way.

    It was the men and women of Honeywell whose craftsmanship made it possible for Charles Lindbergh to fly across the Atlantic and for Amelia Earhart to break boundaries in the sky.

    It was the men and women of Honeywell who built the periscopes, mortar sites, and autopilot systems that powered American warriors as they battled the forces of tyranny and fought to victory in the Second World War.

    And it was the unstoppable workers right here at Honeywell that helped our brave astronauts plant our American flag on the face of the Moon. And we’re getting ready to do it again. But we’re really using the Moon as a landing pad for its journey and our journey together to Mars. It’s happening very soon.

    Now it is one more time for the men and women of Honeywell who are supplying the weapons, the armor, the sweat, and the scale in a war to defeat the new invisible enemy — a tough enemy, a smart enemy. But nobody is like us, and nobody is tough like us. And I said it before and I’ll say it again: The people of our country are warriors.

    With your help, we will vanquish the virus and build a future of greatness and glory with American heart, American hands, American pride, and American soul.

    Thank you very much for the incredible job you do. Thank you to Honeywell, to our senator, to our governor. Thank you so much for the incredible job you do. And thank you to the people of Arizona. We will never forget. Thank you very much. Thank you.

  117. Phoenix says:

    What NJ used to be like.


  118. ExEssex says:

    6:29 idyllic even.

  119. Fabius Maximus says:
  120. Fabius Maximus says:

    They hire the best people.

  121. ExEssex says:

    May 04, 2020 – 7:34 PM

    A 24-year-old Carver County man said he feared for his life when he shot and killed an unarmed driver in St. Paul Friday night following a minor collision and dispute on the highway, charges say.

    Anthony J. Trifiletti, of Watertown, Minn., was charged in Ramsey County District Court on Monday with second-degree murder in the death of Douglas C. Lewis, 39, of St. Paul. He remains jailed in lieu of $1 million bail.

    Trifiletti later told police that Lewis appeared to be reaching toward his waistband as he advanced toward Trifiletti, who’d grabbed a handgun from his glove box and fired several shots, striking Lewis four times. The man has a legal permit to carry, a law enforcement source confirmed.

  122. Fabius Maximus says:

    Don’t say today, what you cant ignore tomorrow.

    President Donald Trump declared Wednesday his coronavirus task force would continue “indefinitely” a day after he and Vice President Mike Pence said they were phasing out the health-focused panel in favor of a group focused on reopening the economy.


  123. Libturd says:

    Who at Honeywell wrote that speech?

  124. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Phoenix, that was a sweet video. I loved the Campbell’s soup factory part. You can see that we were growing those great iconic tomatoes way back then.

  125. 3b says:

    Fab: Don’t worry 6 months until St. Biden wins and we can go back to the days of Unicorns shitting skittles which is how some people perceive this country was prior to Trump. Of course that’s not the truth, as the country has been declining long before Trump. St Biden of course was instructor in the decline as a bought and paid for politician of over 40 years.

  126. Libturd says:

    3B true. As they all have been since the early 70s and perhaps earlier. I wasn’t alive to remember. Shame Trump, who really tried not to be bought, decided a better path was to simply to enrich himself through grift.

    I suppose when the history books are written. The huge deficit spending Trump successfully used to juice the economy for the wealthy will be disguised by the much huger deficit spending that will be necessary to recover from the coming depression.

    When Covid-19 is in the rear view, the blue team will still stay Trump didn’t act soon enough and brought this on himself. The red team will say it was China’s fault and Trump kicked ass.

    Same old, same old.

    And just wait until the Orange one is a former POTUS. Get ready to hear the story change from how every leader before him was a moron and every leader after him is a moron too. Can’t wait!

    Any bets on his next divorce? I give him until 2022.

  127. Chicago says:

    Divorce? He is going to be dead within 10 years. The problem is Biden will be dead with 3-4.

  128. grim says:

    Awaiting jobless claims…

    NJ should hit a million unemployed today.

  129. Young Buck says:

    Saw this video yesterday on YouTube, it’s now been removed.



  130. grim says:

    Starts strong, turns into a bullshit-conspiracy-fest.

    Rotten Tomatoes gives it a tomato meter score of half a tomato.

    Waste of precious time.

  131. grim says:

    I’d rather watch Anderson Vanderbilt interview Chris Cuomo on CNN.

  132. grim says:

    Funny, after typing that, I think I understand why they named him ANDERson.

    vANDERbilt – SON


  133. ExEssex says:

    Re: antibody testing.
    Spouse went and test came up negative.

    Seems there is a 20% margin of error.
    Not sure I trust the results.

  134. ExEssex says:

    A mutated coronavirus strain is responsible for most of the world’s COVID-19 infections. That doesn’t mean it’s more dangerous than the original.

    Scientists track genetic errors, or mutations, in the coronavirus’ genome to study its evolution over time.
    A preliminary study suggests a mutated coronavirus strain has become dominant worldwide and therefore is more contagious than the original.
    But not all scientists agree with that conclusion, saying there isn’t sufficient evidence the virus’ mutations have affected how dangerous it is.
    It’s possible the dominant form of the virus just “got lucky,” one expert said, and seeded major outbreaks in Europe before spreading to the US.

  135. grim says:

    It’s funny how positive news is slammed down as pseudoscience, bullshit, wishful thinking, not double blind peer reviewed, blah blah blah.

    But the most negative of bullshit spreads like truthy wildfire.

  136. grim says:

    If you are of the NJRER School of Contrarian Thought, that kind of widespread blind acceptance of negative news as undeniable fact is an indicator of a bottom.

  137. ExEssex says:

    Things must be really bad, I’m getting interested in golf again.

  138. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Can’t make this stuff up. Then you wonder why inner cities are so hard to teach in. Then they wonder why rich people move away or put up gated neighborhoods when living next to these people.


  139. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Mount Laurel affordable housing law should be struck down based on this article. It’s a danger to live next to these kind of people and if you don’t understand why, wake the f’k up. They are lawless. They don’t care and have nothing to lose. So let’s put these types of individuals in rich communities because that’s the answer. They won’t have any negative impact on the quality of life in that community, right? I said right?

  140. grim says:

    You are a racist now too?

  141. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yes, the good ol racist line that gets thrown in your face for wanting a certain quality of life where you reside.

    Has nothing to do with the color of the skin, and everything to do with the quality of life.

    Yes, I want to live next to people that have a 100 person street fight in the middle of a quarantine for a pandemic….

  142. grim says:

    By the way, if you watch that full video. There is a point where a shorter white female cop starts punching a huge black guy in the face. Damn that was awesome. She beat his ass so bad he put his arms up and backed off.

  143. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Too funny… she can def handle herself.

    Best part of the story is that they were prob fighting over nonsense. We will never know, but I would bet good money that they were fighting over nonsense. If only they put that kind of energy and risk into improving their life. Cant’ fix stupid.

  144. grim says:

    I don’t always agree with Mulshine, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis…


    We’re hearing a lot these days about how we should trust the experts when it comes to dealing with the coronavirus.

    Well, John Ioannidis is the expert’s expert. He is a physician and statistician at Stanford University who was described in an Atlantic Monthly profile as “one of the world’s foremost experts on the credibility of medical research.”

    Back on March 17, when the panic about the pandemic was reaching fever pitch, Ioannidis wrote a piece for an online site that injected a bit of realism into the debate.

    It was headlined “A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data.”

    The resultant alarmism, he said, led to decisions to impose lockdowns on the population as a whole rather than targeting resources in places where they were most needed, such as nursing homes.

    “Based on what we know now, much of our strategy was completely wrong,” he said. “We did the exact opposite of what we should have done. We locked everyone inside and we sent people with Covid to nursing homes. Could we have got it more wrong than that?”

    That would have been tough. The first major Covid-19 outbreak in the United States occurred at a nursing home just outside Seattle in mid-February, with 35 fatalities.

    That should have been a warning of where the danger lay, but New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy and New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo presided over policies that let hospitals send Covid-19 patients to nursing homes to free up hospital beds.

    “At the moment they said this was a coronavirus, we should have known that what we needed to address was to protect nursing homes and hospitals,” he said.

    At a press briefing yesterday, the Murphy administration revealed that almost half of the CV-19 deaths in New Jersey – 4,261 out of 8,549 total deaths – were in nursing homes and other long-term-care facilities.

  145. The Great Pumpkin says:

    One more post on the affordable housing nonsense.

    So let me get this straight. The affordable housing advocates are the same people that complain when rich people move into a poor area and gentrify it. Okay, got it.

    Are these people not crazy? Is that not the definition of insanity?

  146. FakeNewsHoaxes says:

    First it was idiot, now it’s the fearmongers. You’re going to trigger all kinds of people today.

  147. The Great Pumpkin says:

    MTV News’ Kurt Loder Turned 75 on Tuesday — and Made All of Twitter Feel Old
    Music journalist Kurt Loder joined MTV News in the late ’80s

  148. Bystander says:

    Hah, thanks for laugh Joe Black. That is sarcasm, right? You don’t actually believe he wrote that. Afterall, here is Dumpy in his normal, unedited self. Guy is the most incoherent communicator in history of oval office. Perhaps Biden at stage 4 dimentia might be close if he gets it, which I hope he does. This presidential experiment is over.

    “I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I’ve said a lot of things.”

  149. Hold my beer says:

    Everything old is new again.

    Back to the 70s for NYC.


    Will garbage strewn streets, bail reform, and police force cuts be a positive or negative impact? I predict an increase in WFH and relocations if NYC returns to the 70s style. Fleeing of middle class. Could morph into Brazil. Uber wealthy with private security and the poor will remain. Middle class moving in droves to the south and Midwest to get away from rising property and state income tax increases.

    My doom and gloom for the day . Now back to watching my bread rise.

  150. leftwing says:

    “Re: antibody testing.
    Spouse went and test came up negative.
    Seems there is a 20% margin of error.
    Not sure I trust the results.”

    B-b-b-b-b-u-u-ut-t-t……..It’s critical to have widespread testing before opening up, right? Remind me why….

  151. leftwing says:

    Thanks for that article on the Stanford professor, grim, debunking the idiocy of these general lockdowns.

    The only point of his I would argue is below. Our conclusions were not wrong based on what we know now, but what we KNEW AT THE TIME.

    As I’ve been shouting, these actions of Cuomo, Murphy, Newsom, et. al. are downright criminal.

    “Based on what we know now, much of our strategy was completely wrong…”

  152. The Great Pumpkin says:

    One rea­son was that Chi­na’s cur­rency fell sharply. But an­other, ar­guably even more im­por­tant rea­son is that try­ing to pres­sure the world’s largest trad­ing power with­out buy-in from al­lies is a los­ing game. Chi­na’s ex­ports to the U.S. fell by close to $60 bil­lion in 2019 ac­cord­ing to Chi­nese data, but ex­ports to every­where else rose by about $70 bil­lion as im­porters else­where took ad­van-tage of a glut of cheap Chi­nese goods. Over­all Chi­nese ex­ports still eked out a 0.5% gain. The phase one trade deal presents a sim­i­lar prob­lem: China can try to mas-sively in­crease pur­chases of U.S. goods, but that risks push­ing up prices and dam­ag­ing de­mand for Amer­i­can wares else­where. Now the coro­n­avirus has made ex­e­cut-ing the al­ready deeply flawed trade deal nearly im­pos­si­ble.


  153. Nomad says:

    Buck, watched a bit of the video you posted. At some points, it looked the the words and mouth movements were not one in the same. Perhaps not this video but people need to be on the lookout for the fake vides made to look like a person is saying something they in fact are not. The early iterations of such technology are fairly easy to see but would sway some. The fear is that if / when the technology advances, it could become so realistic as to present big problems.

  154. grim says:

    Million unemployed in NJ, congrats.

  155. Nomad says:

    Grim, re Mulshine article. Interesting but what would have happened if no lockdowns. Hospitals seemed overwhelmed with social distancing which I do not recall seeing in my lifetime. Without social distancing, where would the hospitals be? I get the lockdown is brutal on the economy, individuals and families. I also get it impacts elderly in a big way but what about those meatpacking plants? In hindsight, beginning 12-15-19, I wonder what we should have done in the US. Still have shortages of PPE which baffles me. Why no heavy hand / defense act to mask, gown and glove makers to ramp production in current factories and build mfg on the ground in US. Testing volume not where it should be either. Somethings up with all of this.

    A couple of Navy ships including a carrier back to port with an outbreak. How much more of a problem is COVID19 with our military and while not wise to broadcast issues, are problems enough to incapacitate portions of military?

  156. D-FENS says:

    Murphy is the worst. What a stubborn arrogant dipsh1t.

  157. D-FENS says:

    Stop waiting for testing. There will be no ramp up of testing. Every vendor who told the government they could sell them tests overpromised and were just anxious to cash a government check in an environment where turning a profit was harder than ever.

    For that matter stop waiting for a vaccine too. We still don’t have a vaccine for the common rhinovirus or any other coronavirus. Start dealing with the reality that it may never happen.

  158. Libturd, the Master Beta says:


    You are a knucklehead.

  159. chicagofinance says:

    “20% margin of error” Is that the name Musk gave his new kid?

    ExEssex says:
    May 7, 2020 at 7:10 am
    Re: antibody testing.
    Spouse went and test came up negative.

    Seems there is a 20% margin of error.
    Not sure I trust the results.

  160. leftwing says:

    “Grim, re Mulshine article. Interesting but what would have happened if no lockdowns. Hospitals seemed overwhelmed with social distancing which I do not recall seeing in my lifetime. Without social distancing, where would the hospitals be?”

    Again, society quarantines the sick and vulnerable populations. Not the unaffected. If only the old and ill were hard quarantined there would have been fewer severe cases and fewer hospital admits than with a soft lockdown of everyone (which didn’t quarantine anyone).

    “I also get it impacts elderly in a big way but what about those meatpacking plants?”

    Nobody is dying in the meatpacking plants. They are younger and in generally better health. They are just getting sick. Shutting a meatpacking plant because workers are calling in sick with C19 is the same as shutting it because workers are calling in sick with the flu. It happens. Totally unrealistic to target no sickness from C19, might as well target eradication of the flu or common cold.

    “Testing volume not where it should be either. Somethings up with all of this.”

    Can’t even argue this point anymore. As simply stated as possible…widespread testing is irrelevant if you don’t have a therapeutic or cure, or if the general population is going to be exposed to the disease anyway. And especially if exposure does not confer immunity. Makes zero sense whatsoever. Or explain why.

  161. Nomad says:

    Thanks left but you didn’t answer my question about testing. Point blank, it hasn’t ramped and the big industry players can ramp and its not getting done and so far, I haven’t heard a good answer as to why.

    With the relaxing of social distancing, we should know in 3-4 weeks if it has a material impact on things or not. Not everyone dying is old. A good question would be are the people dying in the not old age group doing so at a rate similar to, higher than or lower than the flu.

  162. joyce says:

    Not sure how to feel about this:

    The court seems concerned about expanding criminal statutes when targeting government activity (activity the justices admit was very bad) but they’re usually never concerned about expanding government power against us mere mortals.

  163. Libturd says:

    “exposure does not confer immunity”

    This is the BIG issue and why the vaccine is so critical. It sure looks like there is some short-term immunity. Will the immunity last more than one season? Probably not. If a vaccine is found, how effective will it be? Impossible to predict.

    It’s going to be a terrible June with the first wave for the rest of the country and the second wave for our area hitting on top of the oncoming depression. Can you imagine if this whole thing repeats in the Fall?

    FYI, I just sold off half of my long position to lock-in some short-term gains. So I am about 15% long now. Tomorrow’s unemployment report is going to be incredibly bad.

    In other news, wife has to furlough for another two weeks next quarter too. Not a big deal to us as the juiced unemployment is not that much less than her paycheck. Once federal and state budgets need to be figured out, I’m not so sure all of these bailout, stimulus checks and juiced unemployment checks will continue. The money has to come from somewhere.

  164. Libturd says:


    Why does it even matter? With the power of pardon, no one who ever commits a crime in government ever serves time anyway.

    Politicians and Wall Street gangsters seem to have similar protections. Hmmmm.

  165. joyce says:

    Agreed. It’s why I was torn reading the case and related articles. I do not want the executive branch agencies over-interpreting laws to make a case, but there’s no mechanism whatsoever to punish these people (politicians, banksters, etc.)

    I guess I should say there’s no lawful mechanism to punish them.

    Libturd says:
    May 7, 2020 at 2:16 pm

    Why does it even matter? With the power of pardon, no one who ever commits a crime in government ever serves time anyway.

    Politicians and Wall Street gangsters seem to have similar protections. Hmmmm.

  166. leftwing says:

    “Thanks left but you didn’t answer my question about testing. Point blank, it hasn’t ramped and the big industry players can ramp and its not getting done and so far, I haven’t heard a good answer as to why.”

    Some reasons that may be more palatable to you are below….but the more important answer remains my first. Take a look at my response but answer me this….

    Tests are substantially more available now than a month ago. If they are so fcuking important then where did all the drive thrus go? Why did every state shut down their testing sites, and just relegate it to private sector GPs and clinics if it’s such an important item? Answer: Because actions speak louder than words. Widespread testing is not important. The States know it. At this point for the States the testing debate is just politics. Good sound bites, unsolvable, and thereby gets them off the hook (“we can’t open until there are tests, oh my where are all the tests?”)

    Now for answers you may like better:

    1. It’s not necessary now except for people like first responders and hospital workers.

    2. The tests are unreliable, your better manufacturers (the majors) aren’t going to put out tests with crap sensitivity and specificity.

    3. Micro- type bottlenecks, such as the lack of specific reagents, certain types of vials, and the (normal) inability of one lab to run only a specific type of test and not others (ie, a chevy transmission can’t be used in a Honda).

    But you are in essence correct….the tests aren’t there because in reality no one cares enough…NY/NJ have brutalized people for not wearing masks and broken up and arrested or ticketed families congregating on their front lawns. The States can certainly focus resources when they want to. If they really thought testing was so important and valuable the States would have double or tripled down on state-sponsored testing with all the new availability relative to late March/early April. The fact that they didn’t and their continued inaction exactly answers your question. It just doesn’t matter right now.

  167. ExEssex says:

    The global luxury goods industry has been devastated by the coronavirus pandemic.
    A new study by Bain consultancy forecasts that the sector will see a major decline in sales this year, up to 35%.
    It will take years for sales to return to 2019 levels, say experts — and the luxury market will be forever “reshaped” by the global crisis.

  168. grim says:

    With the relaxing of social distancing, we should know in 3-4 weeks if it has a material impact on things or not. Not everyone dying is old.

    We know exactly who is dying. The elderly, the sick, and especially the elderly sick.

  169. ExEssex says:

    1:24 I don’t know much about airplanes but I do recognize mental illness when I
    See itZzzz

  170. ExEssex says:

    2:58 yeah if we didn’t have it then what the fuuuuuuck –
    Twas nasty. Now they’re saying cannabis helps

  171. grim says:

    Sweden had no lockdown. They are being criticized for it massively.

    Covid death rate per 100,000

    US 24
    Sweden 28
    Italy 49
    Spain 53

    Sweden’s biggest regret? Not quarantining nursing homes.

  172. njtownhomer says:

    Out of the four countries, only Swedes would do 100% of what they have been told. Or they could use an IKEA instruction cartoon.

    Other 3 in the list are known to improvise the rules by themselves, and have reckless administrations.

  173. D-FENS says:

    Average household size in Sweeden is 1.8 vs 3.19 in the US. Built in social distancing.

    grim says:
    May 7, 2020 at 3:04 pm
    Sweden had no lockdown. They are being criticized for it massively.

    Covid death rate per 100,000

    US 24
    Sweden 28
    Italy 49
    Spain 53

    Sweden’s biggest regret? Not quarantining nursing homes.

  174. crushednjmillenial says:

    1:51 says “Not everyone that is dying is old.”

    From what I have seen of the news media, there has been extremely frustrating reporting on this issue. The raw data is easily accessible, but virtually no guest on CNN, Fox, etc. or quoted experts in news articles puts the information about the age issue out there as one of the most important facts regarding this virus and an appropriate policy response to it.

    See links below, to support the following data:

    In New Jersey, 95+% of Covid19 deaths are 50+ years old.

    In NYC, approximately 98+% of Covid19 deaths are 45+ years old.

    In the USA, according to the CDC, 97+% of Covid19 deaths are 45+ years old.

    And, the elderly (75 or 80+) make up approximately half of all deaths, across all three jurisdictions.

    While it is likely true that any given individual, of any age, may potentially die from this virus, it is overwhelmingly unlikely to kill a person under 45 who is in good health. Further, anecdotally, it seems unlikely to kill a person between ages 0-75, who is not in poor health.

    Finally, if the studies showing 20+% of NYC has likely had the virus are true, then this virus is not nearly as deadly as feared in March (NYC has lost about 2 people out of every 1,000 in their population, if that number was increased 4X, the overall death rate would still be less than 1% of the NYC population). Putting all this together, along with the fact that there are only 5,000 people in NJ currently hospitalized with Covid, suggests, to me, that NJ’s ongoing shutdown is very bad public policy.




  175. Hold my beer says:

    Any chance Vitamin D levels are playing a role in this?

    Corona is hitting the elderly and minorities at a disproportionate level compared to whites under 60.

    The older you are, the more likely you are to have significantly lower levels of Vitamin D than is considered healthy. Also the darker your skin, the more time exposed to sunlight that you need for your body to produce the necessary Vitamin D your body requires. A darker skinned person needs 3-4 times the amount of sun exposure to create the same amount of Vitamin D as a pale person (like Conan O’brien level pale)

  176. leftwing says:

    Covid death rate per 100,000, v2.0:

    NY: 126
    NJ: 89
    FL: 6

    The FL governor was absolutely roasted in MSM for resisting lockdowns, being among the last states to do so, and then staggered by county.

    I was absolutely flamed on here for defending him when I was down there in Mar-Apr.

    But, hey, Joisey always knows better right? Enjoy your time inside for the next month, I’m scheduled to GTFO here again shortly lol.

  177. Juice Box says:

    re: “Sweden had no lock-down”

    Not really true, they did some stuff just not shelter in place completely, and I don’t think they have the same age distribution of deaths here either.

    Look at the death rate by age in Sweden, mostly very elderly, and they also have a higher life expectancy than the USA.


  178. leftwing says:

    The Swedes’ data….math shows that 99.5% of deaths were age 40 or over.

    For anyone that wants to do a deeper dive into the data I will push my brokerage account across the table and give you odds the majority of the deaths among the under 40 cohort – a mere one half of one percent of total deaths – had comorbidities.

    Fact known since before this virus was first diagnosed here:

    It kills the old and unhealthy. It is a non-event for the young and healthy.

    Plan accordingly.

    Or listen to your hack moron governor, go back to normal activities when he pulls some random decision out of his arse that “you’re safe”, and fcuking keel over with a tube jammed deep in your lungs.

    Because with the track record of politicians, particularly the idiots heading up this state, I’d prefer to leave a life and death decision in their hands. Suuurrre…..

  179. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Grim, fire up the distillery. This is a cure you can get behind.


    Possibility of Disinfection of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) in Human Respiratory Tract by Controlled Ethanol Vapor Inhalation
    Tsumoru Shintake

    Viruses such as SARS-CoV-2 and Influenza are lipophilic, enveloped viruses, and are relatively easy to inactivate by exposure to alcohols. The envelope mainly consists of the lipid bilayer, taken from the host cells at assembly/budding stage of the viral life cycle. Therefore the constitution of the lipid bilayer should be common in all SARS, MERS and influenza viruses, even after mutations, and thus these closely-related viruses will be disinfected by exposure to ethanol with the same concentration. Existing experimental data indicate that an ethanol concentration of 30~40 v/v% is sufficient to inactivate Influenza-A viruses in solution[1,2,3]. The author suggests that it may be possible to use alcoholic beverages of 16~20 v/v% concentration for this disinfection process, such as Whisky (1:1 hot water dilution) or Japanese Sake, because they are readily available and safe (non-toxic). By inhaling the alcohol vapor at 50~60∘C (122~140∘F) through the nose for one or two minutes, it will condense on surfaces inside the respiratory tract; mainly in the nasal cavity. The alcohol concentration will be intensified to ~36 v/v% by this process, which is enough to disinfect the corona virus on the mucous membrane. This method also provides more moisture into respiratory tract, and helps to clean the inside of the nasal cavity by stimulating blowing of the nose, and also makes the mucous escalator work actively so that the self-clearing mechanism in the trachea will remove viruses faster. An alternative prompt method is also discussed. We use 40 v/v% whisky or similar alcohol, dripping on a gauze, inhale the vapor slowly at room temperature. This method works well for the front part of the nasal cavity. This is suitable for clinical workers, because they may need to use prompt preventative measures at any time.

  180. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Here’s a question to ponder? How many people in here would quit their job on the spot to avoid a.5% chance of death? The reality is, that .5% number drops significantly closer to zero when you are under 50 and healthy.

    I risk my life more on Rt. 78 commuting everyday.

  181. JCer says:

    The logic behind the testing, is to do contact tracing and selective quarantine. Everybody wants to be South Korea or Taiwan.

    I agree about Italy and the US, so many people making up their own rules about what social distancing means. Early on in Italy you had a lot of people violating the rules and they had to crack down.

    Spain on the other hand is almost Teutonic in their obedience to rules(outside of Catalonia, there are no rules there). The legacy of Franco is still strong there, I’ve found in my travels over there they take rules and law very seriously. The big difference is like Italy they are a much warmer culture than the nordic countries or germanic countries, people in Spain hug and kiss even acquaintances, close physical proximity with strangers is a daily occurrence. I’d wager that both Spain and Italy had very high infection rates, way higher than reported.

  182. ExEssex says:

    4:28 that’s just it. If we know the powers that be are clueless then we are really going to find events, restaurants, sports, all ‘activities’ will adjust to some new normal. Plexiglass surrounds in half-empty restaurants. Nothing opening this summer even. Ventura Co. fair cancelled. I once saw Fountains of Wayne at the NJ co. Fair. RIP

  183. Nomad says:

    Left, tests are not available in ample quantity. I spent a lot of time in the diagnostics industry. They can ramp in a big way but have not been asked to do so. That drive through thing was a joke. With proper info, workforce’s could be better triaged.

    For you and others who are not in the “at risk” groups and believe this is all an overreaction, when restaurants open up for sit down dining, you, your spouse and children (if you have kids) should have no qualms going out to eat or engaging in any out of the home activities that will put you in proximity to others. And in situations where you are not required to wear a mask, then you shouldn’t because you are not as you say, at risk. Enjoy your meal.

    PS, since I am not from the tri-state, when was the last time hospitals here were so overwhelmed and funeral homes had no place for bodies. I’ve never seen anything like that.

  184. Juice Box says:

    Humm –AP Exclusive: Justice Dept dropping Flynn’s criminal case

  185. crushednjmillenial says:

    5:21 . . . I am not in an at-risk group. Yet, I would absolutely not choose to sit down in a restaurant right now or probably for the next few months – just my choice.

    Me choosing not to sit down in a restaurant or go anywhere else indoors and crowded is very different than the government mandating that many businesses should be closed. Part of what is justifying a move toward re-opening is that many people will make choices which seem likely to slow the virus – masks, social distancing, avoiding crowds (especially for at-risk individuals). Even if the NJ governor approves reasonable re-opening measures today, revenues will be hugely down for most businesses, just not as bad as what he is causing by keeping our lockdown on so strongly.

    It’s time for anything outdoors to open up. It’s time for construction to open up. It is time for small main street and strip mall retail shops to open up with 50% of maximum occupancy and masks required. It is time for offices to be allowed to open up with social distancing and masks, etc.

    Not sure about malls right now. It might not be time yet for 100+ seat restaurants to re-open for dine-in. It is not time yet to open up 100+ person bars. It is not time yet to re-open mass events.

  186. leftwing says:


    “Left, tests are not available in ample quantity. I spent a lot of time in the diagnostics industry. They can ramp in a big way but have not been asked to do so. That drive through thing was a joke.”

    Exactly my point. Sounds like we are in agreement. No one is asking them to because right now testing is a pointless exercise.

    “With proper info, workforce’s could be better triaged.”
    Please explain. What does this assertion mean?

    “For you and others who are not in the “at risk” groups..”
    As I said when I was in FL over month ago and having this same debate, I am in an at risk group…deep into a five handle on age with cardio and immuno.

    I haven’t taken the test because having the results would not change my behavior. If it’s negative I’m behaving the same way (extremely carefully). If it’s a positive antibody test (unlikely in my specific case) I’m still behaving the same way since there is no confirmed immunity and the sensitivity of the tests are sh1t (ie, 20% chance my positive result is incorrect). And, if I were young and healthy, my behavior definitely doesn’t change.

    So back to my original point…there is no point to the tests right now.

    Unless someone can explain the utility of a test with a 20% error rate which generates a result that will not alter behavior and for which there is no current therapy?

  187. 3b says:

    Juice Flynn probe dropped.

  188. homeboken says:

    Executive order to close all non-essential businesses – That was forced and it was not a choice anyone got to make.

    Open back up – People have the choice to stay in full, self-imposed, quarantine. Go out in a limited capacity, wear a mask, take Yerba Santa (or whatever it’s called), basically they can undertake any mitigation they want. That is choice.

    For the state governments, the rubber meets the road at lost tax revenues. The governors are beginning to understand that there is not likely going to be a big check coming their way from D.C. Now that the states understand the reality that D.C. does not have their back to fill tax revenue shortfalls, things will start to open.

    If D.C signaled to the states that “Hey, stay closed as long as you want/need, we will cover your bills and pay your unemployed citizens forever”, then we would be shut down forever. But now it is becoming very clear to the Governors that the unemployment funds will have an end date AND the Fed will not fill their lost revenue, so they have to re-open at least a bit. Even the most obedient NJ residents will begin to hate watching their neighboring states get back to normal.

  189. No One says:

    Shot a 94 today in beautiful weather today. It’s one of the few outdoor recreational activities allowed these days. For me, anything under 100 is okay. 43 on the back 9 is more like how I should play. This weekend will be too cold for good golf.

    It’s a tragedy that most countries copied fascist China’s lockdown approach coupled with massive inaccurate propaganda campaigns to give people irrational fears that will last a long time. Meanwhile my MIL’s 103 year old friend just caught the virus in a nursing home. Must have been brought by one of the incompetent nurses she has been complaining about the past 10 years – she was a retired nurse herself. So we are locked down, but nursing homes cannot figure out how to stay clean.

  190. grim says:

    For the state governments, the rubber meets the road at lost tax revenues. The governors are beginning to understand that there is not likely going to be a big check coming their way from D.C. Now that the states understand the reality that D.C. does not have their back to fill tax revenue shortfalls, things will start to open.

    Brilliant analysis.

    Beaches open for Memorial Day.

    Break out the kegs baby.


  191. Fabius Maximus says:

    NY crosses the 20K point with a small spike in cases. We are 5 days over the nice weather last Saturday so we will see if NY heads back up or stays down.

    Donnies valet tested positive, so Donnie had to get another test. He is p1ssed, with the state of his Septum, i’m sure it was painful. CDC guidelines would mean a 14 day quarantine, But No Mask for Him.

  192. Fabius Maximus says:

    Wow, this is really rocking the 80’s. I’m sure these will be all the rage at the next Dependence Mode gig!


  193. Fabius Maximus says:

    The simple answer is that its not that testing is not needed, its that this admin has fcuked it up, just like they have every other aspect. Now its a case of bury the message and kill the oversight.


    I read one piece today that the cost of true testing and tracking in this nation is in the $250Billion range. Cant prove or disprove, but I can see a few not wanting to pay it. Saw some polls on the reopening and how comfortable are you with going to bars/etc.

    GOP leaning 50%
    Dem Leaning 4%

    At this point throw it open and let people decide. I shelter in place with the Dems and let the Deplorable s run the gauntlet.

    The meat packing plants are getting a lot of people not showing up for work. This is who shovels sh1t in the gulch. What happens to the machine when the workers don’t show up to run it.

  194. joyce says:

    I’m still looking for information that Blue Flame and other connected firms are buying from FEMA to resell to others … and not buying from China as all your articles stated, except for the conspiracy theory YouTube video. Whatcha got?

  195. joyce says:

    I don’t think the country is not testing as much as some would like because they secretly know it’s not needed. I think the reason we can’t ramp up production of PPE, ventilators (not that we should use them) and swabs and reagents is because they’re almost all made in Asia… and Germany. It’s not news to anyone that we don’t make much in this country anymore.

    Grim could probably comment best of anyone here, but I don’t think the few factories that still exist in the US can switch rapidly in a few weeks and chart churning out different products. Even if they could, it wouldn’t be a material increase in supply overall vs our need right now. Lastly, the whole world is trying to acquire all of this stuff at the same time … not just us.

  196. Fabius Maximus says:

    “Whatcha got?”

    In the words of Eddie Ray, “I’m not your fcukin Research Assistant, but if you want to pay me, I bill in 6 min increments!”

    As I said, I’m not going that far down that rabbit hole, but feel free.

  197. Fabius Maximus says:

    She should be essential reading for everyone, every day. This is where I saw the testing costs.


    Yesterday we learned that Rick Bright, the scientist who directed the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), the federal agency charged with developing a vaccine for this coronavirus, has filed a whistleblower complaint. The complaint alleges he was demoted for refusing to spend his agency’s money on developing hydroxychloroquine:
    “when Trump blamed President Barack Obama for leaving the “cupboard” of the Strategic National Stockpile “bare” of medical supplies when he left office, anchor David Muir asked him what he had done to restock it in the three years he’s been in office. The question appeared to catch the president””
    “A Washington Post article by Dr. Zack Cooper, associate professor at the Yale School of Public Health and Yale’s Economics Department, says that we do, in fact, have the ability to test at the rate of 20 million tests a day, which is what experts say we need in order to reopen the economy safely. But the rub is that it would cost about $250 billion, and there has not, so far, been sufficient political will to spend that kind of money on testing, especially when those most affected by the reopening of states have been poor Americans and workers who are disproportionately people of color. “

  198. joyce says:

    Make an assertion with zero to back it up. Very astute.

    Actually, you’ve drawn a conclusion with nothing… besides a YouTube video. At least the random internet person took the time to make a video, so you wouldn’t have to rely on a mere tweet or two.

  199. joyce says:

    I heard Clinton strangled a puppy. It’s true. Don’t ask for any evidence; I’m not going down that rabbit hole. Don’t even ask which Clinton.

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