C19 Open Discussion Week 9b

Looks like folks largely stayed home for Mothers Day, but a good portion did venture out the day before. Looks like that weekend traffic is still sitting at the 20% under baseline level. The longer term trend is clearly back to baseline, folks clearly want out, and are heading out far more regularly. If the trend holds, we are back to baseline in 3-4 weeks.

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279 Responses to C19 Open Discussion Week 9b

  1. Chicago says:


  2. Fintech says:

    More helicopter money coming. – First

  3. 3b says:

    Repubs in no hurry for giving more money.

  4. Juice Box says:

    Yeah that Porkulus “Hero’s Act” is something else. According to the Tax Foundation New Jersey would get about $6 Billion in state aid, cities and towns would get an additional 8.6 billion.

    This is just the money to be used for anything….

  5. homeboken says:

    Juice you asked for predictions between now and November 3.

    From my view of the world, the Dem playbook seems:
    1. Keep economy closed as long as possible, anywhere they control, will stay closed by executive order. Why?
    2. When the economy opens up, it will naturally improve. People will gain hope. Hopeful and optimistic people can’t be convinced that Biden is the answer v Trump.
    2b. Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee
    3. Convince as many people as possible that it is not safe to vote in person. Even though it’s fine to go to Walmart, CVS, the pot shop or liquor stores, those are safe.
    3b. Once enough people are scared, you tell them they can vote by mail. See how safe.
    3c. Mail ballots to everyone, dead or alive, legal or illegal, just mail ballots everywhere.
    4. The Dems win POTUS, the House and Senate.
    5. Once we VBM ONE TIME, it will always be the norm. GOP never wins enough seats to control any house, executive or judicial.

    I challenge anyone to change my mind. I promise to be open to any critique of the above points.

  6. Hold my beer says:

    Would love to get me some more helicopter money. Have a feeling I will have some pricey repairs and replacements in my house in the next year or so. Appliance and hvac are 7 years old and about half my neighbors replaced their roof this year. 1 more bad hail storm or bout of 70 mph winds and ours might need replacing too. At least insurance covers it after $3,500 deductible if it’s caused by wind or hail and not age.

    I know someone who has a house built every 7 years and sells his 7 year old house because it was cheaper and less of a hassle to pay the commission and moving costs than it was to replace the roof, hvac and appliances every 8-10 years. That was before prices went up here though so wonder if he will do it again with his house going from 250k up to 400k. He is also an agent for a builder.

  7. Juice Box says:

    homeboken – OK, I’ll bite. Even if the VBM provision is passed would make it though the courts in time for Nov with only 174 days to go? Several states are bound to challenge it all the way to the Supreme Court, courts area already clogged with lots of legal challenges to vote by mail.

  8. 30 year realtor says:


    Is it possible that there is no Democratic conspiracy? That the governors going slowly on the reopening process are doing the right thing?

    Is it possible that Trump’s policy is short sighted and wrong? Is it possible that by managing the rate of infection that many lives could be saved?

    Leaked White House data shows infections spiking more than 1,000% in rural areas that backed Trump | Salon.com

  9. Juice Box says:

    There is some additional candy in the Hero’s Act.

    Here is a big one for Blue states. Repeal of SALT deduction limits.

  10. Libturd says:

    Equally bad is the Trump playbook:
    1. Try to get his supporters to all get infected to turn the economy around asap. So much so that he has yet to don a mask nor has anyone on his medical panel until yesterday. When second wave comes, this strategy will backfire much like his original strategy since they are both the same.

    2. Get back to the deep state blame Obama bullsh1t that got him elected in the first place and makes his disciples ignore everything else. Lord knows, the deplorables eat this sh1t up.

    3. Blame everything on China so that his culpability is ignored.

    4. Get back to the deep state blame Obama bullsh1t that got him elected in the first place and makes his disciples ignore everything else.

    Yeah, I know 2 and 4 are the same. It’s amazing how Flynn, the Clinton’s, even George Bush are in the bullseye of his twitter feed. And always with the 2nd grade nicknames. Just a complete disgrace of a man. But hardly as bad as those who keep giving him passes.

    Home, unless Biden gets the virus and dies from it, he’ll be the next president. He’s doing exactly what he needs to do. He’ll come out of his cave for the Zoom Dem Convention and then will return until his inauguration. You have too much faith in the masses.

  11. 30 year realtor says:

    Why is it the Republican mindset that if everyone who is registered were able to vote that a Republican would never be elected again? That all illegal votes cast would be for Democratic candidates? Fear of voter turnout has been a Republican mindset for as long as I can remember.

  12. Libturd says:


    We’ll get to 200K. And the disciples will still say, “this is no worse than the flu.”

    Yeah, I know it’s mostly older people. Like our favorite 45 year old cop in Glen Ridge.

    But the numbers are wrong. Everyone who dies is counted as Covid. Fake news. Fake news. It’s really embarrassing.

  13. 30 year realtor says:


    One more thing, why do you think the economy will be able to return to normal when reopening? The virus will prevent normalcy. Why is there no accounting for the impact of illness, death and fear?

  14. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Good, this was nothing more than a tax on blue states to give red states a tax break. F’k em, pay for your own tax break.

    Juice Box says:
    May 13, 2020 at 10:21 am
    There is some additional candy in the Hero’s Act.

    Here is a big one for Blue states. Repeal of SALT deduction limits.

  15. Juice Box says:

    30 year – It’s not a conspiracy if it’s not illegal.

    It’s simply a polarizing talking point.

    AOC is campaigning with a slogan after all “Just say no” to going back to work.

    DNC just voted to allow remote participation at the Convention.

    Lot’s of politicians have to pick sides now as the protests will only escalate as people go bankrupt.

    To be clear there is no winner here, and I am not voting for Trump or Biden. I want all of these people gone.

  16. 3b says:

    Juice Welcome to the not voting side. They all blow! Just so amazed the Democrats don’t see it. I get the anyone but Trump line, but Joe Biden?? He instills zero confidence, and just seems to repeatedly zone out.

  17. 3b says:

    Whose buying Tesla s in this environment??

  18. joyce says:

    why do you think the economy will be able to return to normal when reopening?

    Improve =/ normal

    The virus will prevent normalcy. Why is there no accounting for the impact of illness, death and fear?

    1) There is. 2) No one is going to force someone to go out shopping if they’re afraid. Why is there no accounting for that?

  19. joyce says:

    We have been patient. But Governor Pritzker is moving the goal posts.


    The rate of infection has slowed enough to allow hospitals here to manage caseloads. That’s what success was supposed to look like. Illinois is, indeed, bending the curve on an escalating health pandemic we feared could overwhelm hospital resources.

    The costs of that success are enormous; the burdens are excruciating for many. Closed businesses, closed schoolhouses, closed churches. Family and friends cut off from one another. Many people trapped at home in isolation. Illinois cannot remain shut down indefinitely. Neither can the country. On Friday, economists expect the U.S. Labor Department to report that April unemployment hit an astounding 16%. That’s 22 million jobs lost in one month, the equivalent of eliminating every job created in the past decade, The Wall Street Journal reported.

    What happened to ‘bend the curve’?
    But he also lays out a timeline and criterion for reopening that is cautious to the extreme. Actually, he’s being more than just cautious. He has moved the goal posts.
    Pritzker’s latest plan extends the benchmarks for victory from bending the infection curve to defeating the virus altogether.

  20. 3b says:

    Mc Connell blows too, but the blue states are notorious for waste and corruption, so the money sent to the blue states needs to go directly to where its needed to address the pandemic issues, not BS projects.

  21. Libturd says:


    Welcome to my world of not voting for the idiots both parties present. I think I voted for Obama the first time, but I wrote in “none of the above” for the last 6 or 7 elections that I remember. I think I voted for Deez Nutz in 2016.

    In NJ, general elections are a waste of time.

  22. Fast Eddie says:

    Time to open up the State:


  23. homeboken says:

    30 yr – I never used the word conspiracy. It isn’t a conspiracy, it is wide open and easy to see the playbook.

    Regarding VBM and which party benefits, I’d refer you to my username. I lived in Hoboken for 15 years. Hoboken like all of Hudson county, is a one part government. It has been for decades. That is achieved by VBM, campaign day worker payoff and ballot Harvesting at senior centers, church towers etc.

    It’s not very scientific, I just notice that one political idealogy seems to benefit 100% of the time. That tells me all I need to know.

    If you are arguing that VBM would be fair to both sides, then I conclude that you are not a serious person and our conversation should end here.

  24. 3b says:

    There is also a plan to set up a Medical Response Coordinator to coordinate distribution of personal protective equipment, as a pilot manufacturing program to improve geographic diversity of critical medical supplies. Nancy Pelosi talks about how a lot of the ingredients in therapies and vaccines comes from China. Why Nancy? And you and the rest of your corrupt fellow politicians on both sides sat back for years and did nothing. Can’t blame Trump for that. Nancy blows too!!

  25. Joe Black says:

    Every highway should remain closed, until we can reopen them safely. Every life is precious. Until there is zero risk, everything must remain shut down.

    Your freedoms, your rights, your way of life, none of that matters until risk is reduced to zero. And every life lost because of people selfishly demanding “freedom” and restoring the country, is blood on your hands.

    Stay hidden, listen to orders. It’s safe.

  26. 3b says:

    Lib I voted for Obama the first time, I actually fell for that whole hope and change BS, which turned out to be more of the same. Obama was an arrogant empty suit in my opinion. I voted for Romney as I thought a moderate Republican with some real experience could be a good choice. Instead it was 4 more years of lectures from Obama. 2016 I stayed home with the choices we had, staying home again in 2020. State, local elections don’t care either. They all blow!!

  27. 3b says:

    Fast: Yeah open up the state so the self absorbed selfish residents can throw their plastic gloves on the street and on people’s front lawns.

  28. Fast Eddie says:


    Or, do what Joe Black above was saying and cower inside your house. We need to live our lives now. Open it up and carry on. I want to go shopping for clothes, I want to eat in a restaurant, crowded or not. We need to be able to go to any retail outlet, go to a game, go to the office or go to a concert. I need to ride my bike and pause to watch a baseball game at the local field. This is done and over with. Time to get back to normal life.

  29. homeboken says:

    Regarding the “accounting for illness, death and fear” We know that, factually, as it relates to COVID.

    If you are under 50 years old, with no co-morbidities, you have a 99.8% or better chance of survival.

    I will throw your question right back at you –

    1. How many suicides should we account for with 30 million unemployed.
    2. How many deaths or OD’s from alcohol and substance abuse?
    3. How many cancer screenings are missed, since we can’t go to the doctor?
    4. How many children are being abused by parents that they can’t escape?
    5. How many kids aren’t receiving the one meal they used to get via school?

    I could build this list to 100 other costs that I know are being ignored because they don’t fit the “COVID 19 is gonna kill us all” narrative.

    Serious people always want to know “What is the cost” when they make any decision. If you aren’t willing to discuss the obvious and the hidden costs of these shutdowns, then you are not a serious person and should start ignoring my posts.

  30. 3b says:

    Fast Normal life but with changes? Self absorbed north Jersey arseholes who throw plastic gloves on people’s lawn, who don’t wash their hands after using the bathroom. None of the rules apply to them. They blow too!!

  31. Juice Box says:

    Turd – If I have HIV and die of a heart attack what did I die of?

    Fauci says the numbers are under-counted.

    Who do we believe anymore?

  32. 3b says:

    Biden did poorly in that interview with George Stephanooulus on Good Morning America. He was just awful. And George goes easy on Democrats.

  33. Juice Box says:

    Pumps -re: “Powell Says Washington Will Need to Spend More”

    Ya think he got wind of that deflation fart? CPI numbers starting to head south as reported yesterday. That cannot happen here, Bernake wrote the playbook.

    CPI is trailing….I don’t need to wonder why my favorite sushi joint is now 1/2 price and how I can now get my car washed for three dollars and ninety nine cents.

    Heck if I want to fly somewhere or fill up my tank it’s way cheaper now than in the last 20 years. That is good right?

    Nope, rents must be paid…..and I don’t mean the rent you get as your renters don’t feed the bond markets or the derivatives.

  34. Juice Box says:

    3b – “listen here, Jack,” When Joe speaks of “intercourse”, he speaks the truth, we are going to get screwed whether we like it or not. There’s “no malarkey,” and “that’s not hyperbole.”

  35. LurksMcGee says:

    Nice to see the familiar comments on the blog.

    Not sure if this was covered already, but what’s the over under on 10% of NYC residents fleeing to nearby NJ towns (maybe even exurbs)?

  36. 3b says:

    Juice Got to try and prevent deflation, regardless of the cost, but I don’t think it works. Slash assets 50 percent, reset start over. But before that we will get negative rates regardless of what Powell says.

  37. homeboken says:

    Anytime I hear Biden start a sentence with “Here’s the deal” I pay attention, bc that is his poker-tell that he is going off script. A gaffe is almost certain to follow those 3 words.

    Oh, and Biden will not be the nominee by November.

  38. 3b says:

    Oh no Lurks Mc Gee is back!! Seriously?? We know who you are!!

  39. JCer says:

    Homeboken, people are blind to this fact. I at one point was a democrat. I now see that largesse is used to buy votes, it’s their whole platform. Bringing in aliens is all about votes. In Hudson county the machine controls politics and rules don’t apply, the dead I’m sure have been voting there for years. Last time I voted there I literally saw people campaigning for Murphy in the polling place, and they were asking people who they were voting for, who they voted for, etc. All clear violations of NJ election procedures. It’s a lawless place and Newark is largely the same.

    Why is it always democrats? Simple because they are the ones who always vote down increased security measures around elections because it will “disenfranchise voters”. Which is non-sense, why should I not have to show my ID to prove who I am? If you are to be entrusted to vote for our political leaders, you should be a functioning enough adult to have an ID and to carry it with you. If you cannot do that, you have no business voting.

    Both parties are hopelessly corrupted. But honestly the Democrats are far worse when it comes to rank and file corruption, they control the most corrupt districts in America. Republicans are all about taking cash from corporations for political favors. My parents were friendly with a few lobbyists from both sides, and that business is alive and well.

    On the Virus, I think we need to consider the data. Yes it is terrible when a 40 year old or a kid dies but what does the data we have bear out? What is the real kill rate? I keep hearing about 50 kids with Kawasaki like symptoms but that is 50 children out of how many infected? Is it significant? I’d like some real data, not politicized news media. What does the data show by age group and not just in NY/NJ etc. I’d like to see global data from all the first world countries. Then we also must consider asymptomatic people as well as those who aren’t treated/tested. The truth is what I see is all the people who should not be super worried are freaking out and the elderly don’t seem to care about this. I’m ready for this to be over….

  40. 3b says:

    Biden’s comment earlier in the year I may be Irish but I am not stupid! Who the hell says something like that in this PC environment. We gave him a pass. He is a joke!

  41. homeboken says:

    3b –

    “Poor kids are just smart as white kids” – Also Joe Biden

  42. homeboken says:


    He’s just so virtuous, it turns me on how woke he is…..

  43. Fast Eddie says:

    “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”

    – Joe Biden

  44. 3b says:

    Homeboken Forgot about that one! Tell us how you really feel
    Joe! Typical Liberal we have compassion for the poor, we just don’t want them in our neighborhoods, but we are not racist.

  45. 3b says:

    Fast: Forgot about that one too! Closet racist perhaps? So many Liberals are.

  46. joyce says:

    “Although most companies refused to say just how much money they are sitting on in the form of travel vouchers, we estimate that the airlines could be holding onto over $10 billion of hard-earned money from American travelers.”


  47. Bystander says:

    There is a strong likelihood that neither survives the full term, either physically or mentally or both. If Biden picks a strong VP candidate (ie not Warren or Abrams) then that is enough for me to vote out Orange clown, otherwise not voting this cycle. It makes no difference in NY/NJ/CT anyway.

  48. D-FENS says:

    I told you guys… Kamala Harris will be the Democratic nominee

  49. D-FENS says:

    The economic devastation wrought by the pandemic could ultimately kill more people than the virus itself


    The United Nations predicts that a global recession will reverse a three-decade trend in rising living standards and plunge as many as 420 million people into extreme poverty, defined as earning less than $2 a day.

    As for the 734 million people already there, the economic tsunami will make it harder for them to ever climb out.

    “I feel like we’re watching a slow-motion train wreck as it moves through the world’s most fragile countries,” said Nancy Lindborg, president of the nonprofit U.S. Institute of Peace and former head of the Ebola task force at the U.S. Agency for International Development.

    Hunger is already rising in the poorest parts of the world, where lockdowns and social distancing measures have erased incomes and put even basic food items out of reach.

    In Guatemala, villagers are begging for food along highways by waving pieces of white cloth at passing drivers. In Colombia, the hungriest hang red flags from their homes in hope of donations.

    Recent phone surveys in places as disparate as Senegal and rural China suggest that large swaths of society have lost their livelihoods and, as a result, are eating less.

    The U.N. predicts the coronavirus could push an additional 130 million people to the brink of starvation by the end of 2020. World Vision, an international Christian aid organization, warns that 30 million children are at risk of dying.

    “I want to stress that we are not only facing a global health pandemic but also a global humanitarian catastrophe,” said David Beasley, executive director of the U.N.’s World Food Program.

  50. Bystander says:

    Harris brings regional support from a state that is in the bag already. That would be a dumb pick. I think Michelle Obama would make more sense. Trump had govt policy-making experience and zero goverance background so that point can’t be argued anymore, not that red hats fools (and even blue fool purists) won’t try. She is a national candidate, loved by many women across divisions. Trump will dump Pence once a female VP is chosen. Haley is waiting in background. She was *sniff, sniff** too financially conservative to take Rs pork money for Boeing…right.

  51. Bystander says:

    No govt policy making exp..still does not.

  52. D-FENS says:

    Harris’s campaign was full of Clinton people. The’ll find a way to make it happen.

  53. Bystander says:

    Of course, D..it always goes back to the Clintons.

  54. homeboken says:

    Michelle will never take a VP slot. Same for Harris.

    POTUS or bust. Get Joe out of there and put a real candidate in. The path to victory for Biden is so slim. Adding Jesus Christ to the ticket as VP won’t help.

    Michelle O at the top of the ticket and the Dems will trounce Trump in November.

    If the goal is to win, the DNC sure isn’t acting that way.

  55. 3b says:

    Bystander: I thinks it’s reasonable to assume both Trump and Biden survive physically until Election Day, it’s only 5 and a half months away. As for mentally, I think Trump can handle it; he seems to thrive on confrontation. Biden on the other hand I don’t think so he is going to say something that there will be no coming back from.

  56. ExEssex says:

    11:30 I like my house, I like my neighbors. 3 houses sold for upwards of $750k this past month on the two streets around me. We all pay big bucks to ‘live’ in these houses, to preserve and improve them. I personally think it’s great that everyone gets to really live there. Sure it feels like we’re back in 8th grade, but damn, 8th grade was fun. And I didn’t have a freakin’ gorgeous exec workin’ her lil pony tail off in the next room.
    Damn, I have to say. I love it.

  57. Libturd says:

    “If the goal is to win, the DNC sure isn’t acting that way.”

    The problem is that they have gotten fat (spoiled) off the corporate gravy train and can no longer think straight. Biden is the ultimate PAC man. You won’t find an easier, brain-dead, yes man, than Joe. And Joe says, “Now look,” before he puts his foot in mouth. Yeah, he is flawed, but not nearly as disingenuous and spiteful as HRC is. He is also not dangerous like Trump is.

    Michelle O is NOT running. She wasn’t even keen on playing first lady. She prefers a private life for raising the kids. This is simply another Republican narrative to get you to ignore Trump’s handling of Covid. I’m actually convinced the disciples hate her more than Obama himself. So it makes perfect sense that they would make this up to deflect.

    And what ever happened to Chuck Schumer? That dude has absolutely disappeared.

  58. Someone says:


    You know, predictions can be way off. Here are two of your predictions from April 5 and week prior:

    By the way – earlier this week, I think when discussing with Lib, I shared my opinion that we would max out around 20,000 deaths. Still possible if there is some amazing break-thru on the drug/treatment side, but based on a new week of data, I am going to say that we end up with 25,000 – 30,000 deaths.

  59. homeboken says:

    Someone – That is fair. I was wrong in my death prediction. I put too much faith in the treatment’s working to slow the death rate.

    See how that works – I admit I was wrong, I consider why I was wrong and I use that lesson to improve.

    You won’t find me disavowing or fighting my mistakes. I own my mistakes and I get better when I admit my failings. Thank you for pointing it out.

  60. 3b says:

    Lib They hate her more because she is a strong Black woman. I don’t think she enjoyed being First Lady, and I agree she would not want to be VP.

  61. JCer says:

    3b they hate her because she is obnoxious and did not carry herself with the grace and dignity a first lady should, some of the things she said the entitled attitude she exuded was almost as bad as her narcissist husband. That being said I firmly believe the president’s family is off limits they are not elected officials. Comments about Michelle were very nasty from the right. I hope she is not the VP pick and does not try to go into politics. The last thing we need is a Biden-Obama ticket. Also seriously Biden….I was pretty sure the dems selected him as Obama’s VP as an insurance policy…..

  62. Someone says:

    homeboken, fair enough.

  63. ExEssex says:

    12:06 PM – and he’s wrong in the description.
    We get it. You’d love to paint Biden as an idiot.
    But…..you….elected…the biggest idiot ever. And you’re
    fine with it. Says a lot.

  64. Libturd says:


    Learning from mistakes, or even admitting them is what separates us from the m(asses). One need only to read the comments in any main stream media, regardless of side of the spectrum the program/article, blog, etc., caters to, to realize how incredibly uneducated the average American is.

    Just be mindful if your mistakes tend to be made in support of your political positions. Otherwise, I’m lobbing you back in with the masses again.

    Everyone makes mistakes. It takes real balls to own up to them.

    One of my favorite quotes I’ve heard recently comes from the Astrophysicist who runs the Hayden Planetarium (if you grew up in NJ during the 70s or 80s, you took a field trip there).

    “One of the biggest problems with the world today is that we have large groups of people who will accept whatever they hear on the grapevine, just because it suits their worldview—not because it is actually true or because they have evidence to support it. The really striking thing is that it would not take much effort to establish validity in most of these cases… but people prefer reassurance to research.”

    Reassurance to research. Remember that doctor’s speech I linked to yesterday (or the day before)? Perfect example.

    On the cord cutting topic.

    I think I will switch to FIOS internet only and bump up to 200/200 for now (or whatever is close to that). We are on 50/50 MBPS, which is only working because of our quality MIMO router. Though we are really pushing up against capacity at times. Will probably move to 5G when it releases.

    We tried Windscribe, but settled for PIA for our VPN. Very happy with the decision (and the price).

    For now, I think we’ll stick with Apple TV, the local HD antenna and will just turn the pay channels we want on and off as needed.

    Chi – I’ll look into the software based DVR thing for you. What box are you using?

  65. ExEssex says:

    1:54 she exudes a certain swagger I suppose.
    Never really bothered me. She probably needs that as she has had many obstacles.
    Cue choir music.

  66. ExEssex says:

    12:32 Kamala would make an interesting choice. I think she’s a smoke show personally FWIW

  67. Libturd says:


    Biden was chosen for one reason only. Obama had ZERO foreign policy experience. At the time Biden had served as Senate Foreign Relations Committee head and was most tenured in the committee. Chances are, Biden assured the corporate campaign sponsors, who hadn’t had time to purchase favor from fast rising Obama, that they would still get some favor and you still needed a white male on the ticket.

    “grace and dignity a first lady should”
    I just shot ice coffee up my nose. After Melania clearly plagiarized Michelle Obama’s inauguration speech and then Trump went on to treat the White House with the same level of class and dignity as Bluto Blutarsky did with the Delta Tau Chi house. Clearly Michelle was not THAT bad.


  68. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    My most recent memory of Michelle was a video of her blaming White flight for the decline of the Chicago neighborhoods. According to her world view, it shouldn’t matter if one group moves out and another moves in.

  69. Libturd says:

    The moment Kamala played the race card during the debates and in a lying fashion (she grew up well off and the school she attended was already successfully integrated), I knew she was another HRC in the making.

    They are all pretty bad.

    But Trump trumps them all. I thought W was bad. He was a saint!

  70. Libturd says:


    I don’t want to make excuses for Michelle Obama. But she had the most difficult line to toe than any First Lady ever. I actually think she did a great job as first lady. Translation, she didn’t try to do much and focused on raising her kids with dignity.

    Let me give you an example of something that happened recently in the PRM. The head of the local NAACP made some anti-semetic (but true) comments about the school system in Lakewood. Now as a Jew, I would have been okay with it, if the topic he was brought the remarks up about applied somehow to the PRM. But there was absolutely no place for it in a discussion that had absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. It was like if I said, “Pumpkin often gets his economic predictions wrong since he likes blacks and we all know blacks are no good with money.” Well, the 4th ward counselor hosting the town meeting is an incredibly well-respected female doctor who happens to be black. She was the first black person in our town to even criticize the NAACP spokesperson though I felt she didn’t go far enough. A local rabbi, on the other hand, called it like he should have and demanded an apology from the black leader.

    Had the black councilor demanded the same thing, she would have most likely ended her long and lauded political career. As a matter of fact, she just lost her mayoral bid. There is no way one can be sure it can be attributed to her speaking out against the other black leader, but I am certain it didn’t help.

    You see, there was no way for Michelle Obama to make a white man happy without disillusioning those of her own race. If a comment about white flight bothers you that much, then sadly, I think you need some more tolerance training. It’s nothing personal. It was said best in Avenue Q. ” Everyone’s a little bit racist.” Including Michelle Obama. But’s it’s much easier for you and me to get away with it then it is for her.

    White flight is in interesting phenomenon. Do you think most blacks prefer to live in poverty and on the dole any more than a homosexual chooses to be gay?

  71. Bystander says:

    All these problems with offshore covid, H1B freeze, and overall global BCM strategy reevaluation yet best Morgan Stanley wants to offer is $650/day, no benefits to manage it all from NYC. This job market is beyond bizarre. When will these firms feel any desperation, if not now?

  72. 3b says:

    Lib : Obama had no experience in any idea. He didn’t even have any real work experience. He served only one term in Congress.

  73. Libturd says:

    In other light-hearted news. I told you all I thought the markets were turning over. Could it be the second wave?

  74. 3b says:

    Michelle Obama s goal was to protect her children which she did. But she did seem to have a certain contempt for people.

  75. 3b says:

    Trump is not a politician, he is a lunatic, but not a politician. Were people idiots voting for him? Perhaps, but he was the anti politician candidate. You would think that after Trump, the Dems could come up with someone better than Biden!! I would argue those that vote for Biden are idiots too.

  76. 3b says:

    Michelle s comment about white flight and Chicago, is that not racist?

  77. Libturd says:


    I won’t argue with you about Obama. He lost me when I read his stimulus plan and saw how much of a thank you it was to all of the Dem only campaign supporters who stood by the blue team throughout the Bush years. I was also turned off, by his big blunder during a particular playground shooting in Chicago where he jumped to a wrong conclusion without vetting the information properly.

    Obama had a pretty solid mandate that first term and he promised hope and change. Instead, he ended up being like nearly every politician before him. He wasted it supporting the PACs and corporate campaign financiers. Fortunately, this was the most dangerous thing he did.

    On the bright side, he was the king of the drone and really decimated the terrorist threat. I also thank the Lord for Obamacare which probably saved my family and has us on the right track when it comes to solving the health care riddle that seems only to be a REAL problem here and nowhere else.

    Now Trump. He is the biggest sh1thead of all. So stubborn, blockheaded and immature to boot. A true egoist who cares more about what his ratings are than anything else. He’s the opposite of couth. The only thing I give him credit for is not being a complete corporate lackey. Otherwise, his use of xenophobia to get elected and unwillingness to listen to reason from anyone ever is just astonishing. His nicknames for everyone and his schoolyard antics are embarrassing, to say the least. I know it has his other schoolyard allies enthralled. But his total body of work is just an incredible mess of mistakes, lies, burnt bridges and a crassness that even the North Korean leader, who somehow keeps evading death, is probably jealous of.

  78. Libturd says:


    I said it was racist. But she hardly has a choice and there’s a little truth to that remark. She had an impossible job as first lady.

  79. D-FENS says:


    Those Monday through Friday commutes from Greenwich, Connecticut, to Wall Street may become a thing of the past.

    Connecticut Governor Ned Lamont said the chief executives of some large companies have told him that telecommuting could help them save money by cutting office space by as much as 30%, signaling what may be a national shift by businesses. And with employees already stuck at home for weeks, they realize they can run just as well when they work at home.

    “The old idea of the commuter going into New York City five days a week may be an idea that’s behind us,” Lamont said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. “Maybe you have a great job that seems to be geographically located in New York City, you can do it two-thirds of the time from your home in Stamford.”

    Lamont was echoing the views of Wall Street chief executives who have said all of their workers might not return to offices full-time. Working in a corporate headquarters with thousands of others “may be a thing of the past,” Barclays Plc Chief Executive Officer Jes Staley said last month. Morgan Stanley CEO James Gorman predicted a future with “much less real estate.”

    Connecticut has recorded 30,000 coronavirus cases and more than 3,000 deaths, with Fairfield County, closest to New York City, hit the hardest. Positive tests, hospitalizations and deaths from the virus continue to decline and the state has set a goal of 42,000 tests a week, starting next week, as the state prepares to reopen May 20. Hospital capacity is now 40%, Lamont said.

    “All of those curves are bending in the right direction,” Lamont said. “I’m being very cautious about making sure we meet the metrics and knowing when we have to throttle back if there is a flareup.”

    As the state reopens, Lamont said he doesn’t expect consumers to react like the end of Prohibition, when “everyone jammed into the speakeasies.”

    “Consumers are going to be pretty cautious,” he said.

  80. grim says:

    NJ April tax collections down 60%, $3.5 billion under target.

  81. Libturd says:

    May 11th to May 12th was the second largest daily increase in reported cases of Covid-19. The only day it jumped by a higher number of reported cases was April 22nd to April 23rd.

    Could this be an anomaly or just slow weekend reporting? Absolutely. Today’s numbers (reported in full tomorrow) will be telling.

    If you want to get sick and play the unlucky lottery, that should be your choice. Just don’t overwhelm the healthcare system. If we hit that critical mass that plagued NY, in the rest of the country simultaneously. I don’t think the economy is going to improve much. But, please remember not to blame Trump & Pence, when you are face down with a tube down your throat, because the government said it was okay to go out without a mask.

  82. D-FENS says:



    Rand Paul: “Vice President Biden & more than a dozen Obama administration officials requested & received the power to unmask Flynn.”

    “Unmasking involves revealing the identity of an American’s private phone conversations without a constitutional warrant.”

  83. Libturd says:


    Lisa just told me the same thing.

    Good luck government workers. You can blame the unions for the massive layoffs since it’s always last hired, first fired. We all know one massively tenured teacher is way better than three newbies. Nothing like having grandma slide-rule teach a class of 75 kids trigonometry.

    Send in your dues. Those conference room rentals in Atlantic City aren’t cheap. Neither are our television commercials.

  84. Libturd says:

    See numbers 2 and 4 above D-Fens.

    “Get back to the deep state blame Obama bullsh1t that got him elected in the first place and makes his disciples ignore everything else. Lord knows, the deplorables eat this sh1t up.”

  85. 3b says:

    Lib I agree. I think you give Obama more credit on the terrorist issue than warranted, but agree to disagree. I agree on Obama care which is really Romney Care. I don’t know what the solution is or if universal health care is the answer. Britain has a lot of problems with their health system and you can wait two years for braces for kids for example. A lot of Americans would not put up with that. That said the idea that your health insurance comes from your employer is crazy in this day and age. I really don’t know what the answer is.

  86. ExEssex says:

    (Bloomberg) — Get ready for the New Normal 2.0 — or, more appropriately, 2-point awful.

    The U.S. economy post-Covid-19 will look a lot like the one that struggled to recover from the 2008-09 financial crisis –- only in some ways worse.

    Growth will be disappointingly tepid after an initial rebound and, for a time at least, inflation dangerously lower and unemployment heartbreakingly higher than they were back then. Government debt -– and the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet -– will be much bigger, while interest rates stay low.

    “Our economy will have lost something of value,” said Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz. “We will be scarred, and the recovery will be slow.”

    The New Normal 2.0 will be a just-in-case economy of diminished demand and paltry productivity as consumers and companies emerge from this crisis gingerly and build buffers against the next.

    Households worried about their health and finances will save more and spend less. Companies will be less efficient and less global as they rearrange supply lines and bring production back to the U.S. to improve resiliency rather than to cut costs. Government involvement in the economy will be greater as officials place a premium on domestic supplies of medical equipment and other products deemed essential.

    “Everybody is going to be more insecure, more cautious,” investment strategist Ed Yardeni said.

    It will be an economy marred by yawning gaps in income and wealth –- the same as New Normal mark one after Bloomberg News coined the concept and Pacific Investment Management Co. popularized it a dozen years ago.

  87. Libturd, the Master Beta says:


    That’s hardly a bombshell. Though, you may want to check your own underwear.

    You are such a sucker.

    Maybe they didn’t really ask to listen in. Maybe, just maybe, it was sarcasm?

    (oh, I crack myself up)

  88. Libturd, the Master Beta says:

    “yawning gaps in income and wealth”

    Hmmm. I thought all boats were raised under MAGA policies. The problem is, the rich people have hovercraft and the rest of us are in U boats.

  89. 3b says:

    Defens Going to potentially be a lot of empty commercial real estate in Manhattan, maybe they convert to residential? Ah never mind.

  90. Joe Black says:

    Issues I’ll be voting on this November, the same issues I voted on last election:

    1) Securing our borders.
    2) Fixing broken trade agreements.
    3) Returning jobs and factories to America.

    People with higher priority concerns, such as “orange” skin, or rudeness, should vote based upon those concerns. But for me, these 3 issues are critical, and have been for several decades, as a parade of donor puppet leaders from both parties sold out America. I sense I’m not alone in placing a high priority on these 3 critical issues, and expect to see much crying (again) when the bad orange man is reelected in November.

  91. ExEssex says:

    3:53 “…trade Wars are easy..” – “…. Build da Waaaall…” – “….what unemployment…ain’t we MAGA yet…!??”

  92. ExEssex says:

    More and more, churches are challenging stay-at-home orders or bans on large gatherings, with litigation in over a dozen states. In Virginia, for example, Lighthouse Fellowship sued the governor after police cited the church’s pastor for allowing in-person church services with more than 10 people. The U.S. Department of Justice backed the church, a move that puts pressure on the state to lift public health restrictions.
    A conservative federal judge in Kentucky, Justin Walker, went so far as to say that “on Holy Thursday” the mayor of Louisville had “criminalized the communal celebration of Easter” — because he had discouraged large social gatherings, including at churches. And in another Kentucky case, a federal court of appeals has granted a religious exemption allowing in-person church services.
    At the same time, however, houses of worship have received hundreds of millions, and perhaps billions, of dollars in federal funding under the Paycheck Protection Program of the Cares Act (the main coronavirus stimulus legislation). This program treats churches like any other business or nonprofit employer that needs funds to continue to pay its employees’ salaries. Some 9,000 Catholic churches have had their applications for federal funding approved, according to CBS News reporting, and a survey by LifeWay Research found that 40 percent of Protestant churches had applied (and 59 percent of those applications were accepted). As a result, for the first time in our nation’s history, the federal government is affirmatively subsidizing the salaries of clergy across the country.

  93. Bystander says:

    That’s nice, Joe Black except is that what the corporatocracy wants? If there is no pain from corp sector then none of those things exist. You want to believe that Dumpy’s trillions tax cuts worked too and unleashed MAGA corp wave..except it didn’t. Keep believing the hubris though. Here is what I know, companies want cheap labor to pick crops, landscape, build houses, clean houses and provide nannie care. They want cheap visa labor to do their technical work and automate operational processes. Those with a product to sell want their production in China and also want access to sell/compete in Asian market. None of those points can be addressed by any president. You have to start capitalism from scratch. Orange clown ain’t changing it. He simply like talking about like he made monumental changes and red hat morons eat it up.

  94. Libturd says:

    “1) Securing our borders.
    2) Fixing broken trade agreements.
    3) Returning jobs and factories to America.”

    Shoot ’em all. Let God sort ’em out!

  95. Libturd says:

    I would totally buy a MAGA mask. Is anyone selling any?

  96. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    You see, there was no way for Michelle Obama to make a white man happy without disillusioning those of her own race. If a comment about white flight bothers you that much, then sadly, I think you need some more tolerance training. It’s nothing personal. It was said best in Avenue Q. ” Everyone’s a little bit racist.” Including Michelle Obama. But’s it’s much easier for you and me to get away with it then it is for her.

    I’m actually of the opinion that her comments were somewhat accurate. It’s just that it goes against everything she and her husband has said. It doesn’t bother me at all. She’s free to be a hypocrite. I would just like for people to at least be open to the idea of developing a set of ideals that are compatible with each other, regardless of which side of the spectrum you lie on. Everyone isn’t a little bit racist, everyone is a lotta bit racist. It’s in the human DNA and has always been. But most reasonable people are open to socializing and developing friendships with individuals of all kinds, regardless of their predispositions that they have.

  97. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    I actually loved the Church stay at home order. I had to sit through a meeting with other parents for 2 hours every Sunday while my kid was in CCD preparing for communion. It was torture.

  98. Libturd, the Master Beta says:

    Appreciate the explanation BRT. Brutally honest. The only way to be.

    Want a mask?

  99. BoomerRemover says:

    Took a COVID antibody test in a PromptMD in Edgewater. All covered under insurance, no copay. In and out.

    Blood drawn yesterday afternoon. Sent to Quest/LabCorp but was called back today with results, both negative. I was under the impression that non finger prick tests were done by PCR assay… how the fk did they turn that around in 24 hours? Maybe that’s the live virus swab?

    Anyhow, both wife and I are negative for antibodies.

  100. grim says:

    The antibody tests are not PCR.

  101. ExEssex says:

    In the fall of 1996, a charity called the Association to Benefit Children held a ribbon-cutting in Manhattan for a new nursery school serving children with AIDS. The bold-faced names took seats up front.

    There was then-Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani (R) and former mayor David Dinkins (D). TV stars Frank and Kathie Lee Gifford, who were major donors. And there was a seat saved for Steven Fisher, a developer who had given generously to build the nursery.

    Then, all of a sudden, there was Donald Trump.

    “Nobody knew he was coming,” said Abigail Disney, another donor sitting on the dais. “There’s this kind of ruckus at the door, and I don’t know what was going on, and in comes Donald Trump. [He] just gets up on the podium and sits down.”
    Trump was not a major donor. He was not a donor, period. He’d never given a dollar to the nursery or the Association to Benefit Children, according to Gretchen Buchenholz, the charity’s executive director then and now.

    But now he was sitting in Fisher’s seat, next to Giuliani.

    “Frank Gifford turned to me and said, ‘Why is he here?’ ” Buchenholz recalled recently. By then, the ceremony had begun. There was nothing to do.

    “Just sing past it,” she recalled Gifford telling her.

    So they warbled into the first song on the program, “This Little Light of Mine,” alongside Trump and a chorus of children — with a photographer snapping photos, and Trump looking for all the world like an honored donor to the cause.

  102. 3b says:

    Bystander True. And so do a lot of people. But at some point there will be very few jobs for anyone in any profession. Then what? How did we manage before all of this, say when I was a kid, and it’s not that long ago. We had Levi’s and Pro Keds and Converse sneakers. Levi’s are made in China today and they should be dirt cheap they are not. And we are finding out most of our drugs and medical equipment comes from China, and yet those costs are so high. What exactly have we accomplished?

  103. Juice Box says:

    joyce – don’t get carried out on your shield, deficits don’t matter.

  104. Juice Box says:

    EsExxes – re:”In the fall of 1996….Trump”

    I know this great story one about him and some Russian Hookers, have you heard about that one!

  105. chicagofinance says:

    Many African-Americans don’t want to live IN poverty, but would rather live AMONG poverty than live in a more affluent white neighborhood.

    Libturd says:
    May 13, 2020 at 2:48 pm
    White flight is in interesting phenomenon. Do you think most blacks prefer to live in poverty and on the dole any more than a homosexual chooses to be gay?

  106. njtownhomer says:

    I think the tax reform will kill us next year again and finally the curve in below tweet will be bent forever.


  107. joyce says:

    Cool graph. Is creating something like that “gif” easy to do? Honestly asking.

    The concept is accurate, but I wish it used effective tax rate and not marginal rates.

  108. Libturd says:

    Not sure about that Chifi. I think this naturally occurs due to socioeconomics.

    Deficits don’t matter, until they do.

  109. chicagofinance says:

    Obama is an interesting dichotomy.

    He holds great disdain for capitalism and U.S. society. It doesn’t matter whether I think he should support it or not. However, I think he lacked real experience in, and understanding of, the private sector and the entrepreneurial spirit of this county. I take issue with the fact that he is simultaneously disdainful, yet also completely ignorant.

    Still, as an outsider to capitalism in this country, he felt comfortable adopting the cynical views than many African Americans hold about society and business. In fact, I think the interesting thing is that I’m sure in mind of many of his supporters, he completely soft-shoed his chance to put a Woke stamp on the country.

    Here is the rub…… he is a great talker, but is not really ambitious, because his career was really pretty mediocre. What he has is a big streak of competitiveness.

    So wanted to be President to win a Presidential election. For the sport of it. But he really didn’t want to govern, and ultimately didn’t really accomplish anything.

    The most difficult thing for him to accept (The Dichotomy), and his ego would never admit it. He was elected as President not because of the content of his character, but due to the color of his skin. In this sense, it does prove that the U.S. is a racist country, because he had no business being President, and proved it. Yet people laud him blindly for many reasons, including virtue signalling.

  110. homeboken says:

    Chi – the above is a very interesting take. I do agree that the thing that troubles O is that he may be remembered more like Nixon than Lincoln. His legacy is still very uncertain given the things being uncovered the more time he is out of office.

  111. Libturd says:

    Pretty good analysis on the O-man. Lifetime politicians never understand the economy of the working. I also agree that he was a heck of a smooth talker. But I wouldn’t say he was elected president due to his blackness alone (which is racist). I would say that his blackness was more of a major contributor.

    He kind of reminds me of Ellen DeGeneres. She is the least entertaining comedian I have ever witnessed. She’s really not funny. But she is like the queen of the lesbians since she kissed another girl on broadcast TV.

    I watched her game show recently. I doubt there was a single lesbo in the nearly all female audience. But I would also bet that not a single member of her audience was anti-gay. Well, not outside of church. The show itself was absolutely terrible. It was completely boring, when it was meant to be funny. I guess they cast her perfectly for it.

    Getting back to Obama and his life of public service.

    I find that most government workers don’t work much.
    I also find that most government workers got their jobs through connections and rarely did they need to have a college degree to get started.
    I find that most government jobs are unnecessary and were only created to get us out of a recession.

    Sadly, teachers are probably among the few necessary government workers and due to their unions are paid among the least.

  112. Libturd says:

    Pretty good analysis on the O-man. Lifetime politicians never understand the economy of the working. I also agree that he was a heck of a smooth talker. But I wouldn’t say he was elected president due to his blackness alone (which is racist). I would say that his blackness was more of a major contributor.

    He kind of reminds me of Ellen DeGeneres. She is the least entertaining comedian I have ever witnessed. She’s really not funny. But she is like the queen of the lesbians since she kissed another girl on broadcast TV.

    I watched her game show recently. I doubt there was a single lesb0 in the nearly all female audience. But I would also bet that not a single member of her audience was anti-gay. Well, not outside of church. The show itself was absolutely terrible. It was completely boring, when it was meant to be funny. I guess they cast her perfectly for it.

    Getting back to Obama and his life of public service.

    I find that most government workers don’t work much.
    I also find that most government workers got their jobs through connections and rarely did they need to have a college degree to get started.
    I find that most government jobs are unnecessary and were only created to get us out of a recession.

    Sadly, teachers are probably among the few necessary government workers and due to their unions are paid among the least.

  113. Libturd says:

    Pretty good analysis on the O-man. Lifetime politicians never understand the economy of the working. I also agree that he was a heck of a smooth talker. But I wouldn’t say he was elected president due to his blackness alone (which is racist). I would say that his blackness was more of a major contributor.

    He kind of reminds me of Ellen DeGeneres. She is the least entertaining comedian I have ever witnessed. She’s really not funny. But she is like the queen of the lesb1ans since she kissed another girl on broadcast TV.

    I watched her game show recently. I doubt there was a single lesb0 in the nearly all female audience. But I would also bet that not a single member of her audience was anti-gay. Well, not outside of church. The show itself was absolutely terrible. It was completely boring, when it was meant to be funny. I guess they cast her perfectly for it.

    Getting back to Obama and his life of public service.

    I find that most government workers don’t work much.
    I also find that most government workers got their jobs through connections and rarely did they need to have a college degree to get started.
    I find that most government jobs are unnecessary and were only created to get us out of a recession.

    Sadly, teachers are probably among the few necessary government workers and due to their unions are paid among the least.

  114. Fabius Maximus says:

    Lets not forget that it was the GOP that threw the 4th amendment under the bus. But I’m sure a few in here will blame the Dems.


  115. Fabius Maximus says:

    Lost of O hate in here tonight.

    My ideal scenario, WH and Senate flip in Nov, RBG retires and O gets the nod to the Supreme Court.

  116. 3b says:

    Fab I don’t see any hate on here. Open rational discussions on a variety of topics.

  117. JCer says:

    fab are you smoking crack? Since when do politicians get appointed to the supreme court? Lifetime judges get appointed, you don’t just become a supreme court justice, you need to have a distinguished career as a jurist, most preferably a judge in a lower court of some type.

    I’m sure there is a long list of quality liberal judges with appropriate experience to be nominated to the supreme court.

  118. Juice Box says:



  119. homeboken says:

    JC – don’t bother trying to educate morons. It’s useless and they leave the discussion thinking they are the ones that taught you something.

  120. Fabius Maximus says:

    Lifetime politicians never understand the economy of the working.

    I saw a nice piece this week about O. He said that while he was living in Chicago during the Bulls run, he couldn’t afford a ticket to go see MJ play. His early years in Washington were a small apartment in a bad part of town.

    Grew up poor, turned his back on the corporate Legal career and made good.

    Give him some Kudos.

  121. ExEssex says:

    It’d be nice to see some of the established and way too rich entertainers fall by the wayside. Most of them are over compensated bores. DeGeneres bring the leader.

  122. 3b says:

    I have heard from an insider in the business that Ellen is not as nice and sweet as she portrays herself to be.

  123. Fabius Maximus says:

    I remember shutting down Eddie Rays Pontifications about Kagan in two words.

    I think Kagan has more than justified the nod. While you many not agree with her “alignment”, she is bringing a top level analysis to the discussions.

  124. ExEssex says:

    Kyle Bass made his name betting against the U.S. housing market more than a decade ago, and today he is predicting an economic contraction that could be more than three times as severe as that suffered during the Great Financial Crisis.

    “For the year I think you’re going to see U.S. GDP down somewhere between 7% to 10% in real terms,” as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic and the government’s efforts to contain the spread of the virus with business shutdowns, and “10% is an economic depression,” said the founder of hedge fund Hayman Capital Management, in an interview.

    Indeed, the last time the U.S. economy contracted on an annual basis was during the financial crisis in 2009, when it shrank by 2.5%. The last time it shrank by more than 10% was in 1946 at the end of World War II. Prior to that the U.S. economy shrank by 12.9% in 1932, at the height of the Great Depression.

    Bass said the economic fallout in China could be even more severe, laying bare what he sees as a desperate shortage of U.S. dollars in the Chinese economy at a time when the Chinese Communist Party is beating back a political crisis in Hong Kong, a key conduit of foreign capital.

    Bass argued that the Chinese economy has evolved in several fundamental ways over the past decade as wages for its workers have risen, making Chinese exporters less competitive relative to rivals in countries including Vietnam and Mexico. Meanwhile fears about the health of the Chinese economy, which has required ever greater debt loads to fuel ever lower levels of economic growth, have led wealthy Chinese citizens to try to move money abroad to jurisdictions that protect against government expropriation.

    This behavior peaked in 2016, when a worrying decline in China’s foreign-exchange reserves led the government to impose strict controls on moving funds out of the economy. At the same time, Chinese companies have taken on increasing levels of dollar-denominated debt to enable their purchases of foreign commodities like oil and agricultural products.

  125. Fabius Maximus says:

    And is anyone her going to comment on the right wing detritus that the GOP is ramming through Juridical confirmations the senate.

    ABA rating of F- gets a nod, because they vote “right:! Some of them have never tried a case and just get elevated to the bench for life.

  126. Chicago says:

    Legal career?

    Legitimate Q. Did he even pass the bar in IL?

    Being a real corporate lawyer required drudgery.

    He never struck me as a getting his fingernails dirty kind of type.

    Fabius Maximus says:
    Grew up poor, turned his back on the corporate Legal career and made good.

    Give him some Kudos

  127. Chicago says:

    He learned the ability to lie with a straight face.

    He got himself elected by convincing a crucial swing bloc of conservatives that he would protect their interests if they supported him. Building up that trust was done with the same kind of long listening sessions he had used in the poor neighborhoods of South Side, Chicago. Richard Epstein, who later taught at the University of Chicago Law School when Obama later taught there, said Obama was elected editor “because people on the other side believed he would give them a fair shake.”[57][64]

  128. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    I have heard from an insider in the business that Ellen is not as nice and sweet as she portrays herself to be.

    There was a 100 post long twitter feed where people shared their mean Ellen stories. A lot of people talked about what happens backstage. She’s not just “not sweet”…she’s an awful person.

    It’s ok to have a TV personality that’s not your real self. That’s the point of show business. But in Ellen’s case, she’s a genuine sociopath IRL.

    My aunt was a nurse in Bergen County and they were all excited that Eddie Murphy was having a kid. When he came in, the guy is the quietest most reserved boring personality. And she was pissed…pissed that he wasn’t like Axel Foley.

  129. Fabius Maximus says:

    Legitimate Q. Was he ever in a position where he needed to pass the bar in IL?

    Bar exams are funny. I keep pushing my nephew to sit the the NY and CA Bar exams in Dublin so he can have a plan B in corporate law if he needs it.

    I got into an argument with Eddie Ray that I was contemplating a bet on what score I could put up on a bar exam cold.

  130. joyce says:

    Fabius Maximus says:
    May 13, 2020 at 9:12 pm
    I remember shutting down Eddie Rays Pontifications about Kagan in two words.

    What are the words

  131. joyce says:

    I got into an argument with Fabius that he is the dumbest poster here.

  132. Fabius Maximus says:

    What (were) the words

    “Harriet Miers”

  133. Fabius Maximus says:


    I got into an argument with Fabius that he is the dumbest poster here.

    “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

  134. joyce says:

    You don’t seem to grasp the infantile concept of two wrongs don’t make a right. How else would you describe that other than ignorance? It’s not slander when it’s true.

  135. Fabius Maximus says:

    Yes Karen.

  136. Chicago says:

    …..and it begins.

    FBI serves warrant on Sen. Richard Burr over coronavirus-related stock sales

  137. Chicago says:

    Fab: hopefully your last comment is some witty reference that is beyond me.

    If you are instead trying to out someone who prefers to remain private, then you are a pathetic and abject piece of garbage.

  138. Juice box says:

    Lawn Boy got raided by the feds? Was it a no knock raid broadcast live on CNN?

    That warrant had to be approved by Barr..and well by extension Trump…Good times who is next? Shall we make it bipartisan?

  139. grim says:

    At this rate, it’s highly optimistic that the revenue loss would only be $10 billion.. The estimate is -2.8 billion through the end of this fiscal year (June 30), and -7 billion next year.

    The rub is, this was produced before we got the first glimpse of April just yesterday. So we’re seeing estimates of April being down by $3.5 billion in just one alone.

    We might be down by $10 billion in the current fiscal year if May and June follow April.

    I don’t think it’s such a stretch to think their estimates are off by half.

  140. The Great Pumpkin says:

    They need inflation anyway as we are getting smacked in the face by deflation. Republicans better not be stupid, and block the printing press. Inflation is our only way out of this. They were not crying about debt when they passed Trump’s tax cut for corporations and the extreme wealthy, so better not cry about it now. You need to get money quickly into the hands of the consumer. Forcing the states and local govts to lay off people right now (Republican wet dream, why I don’t know)will destroy any hopes of the economy not hitting a depression.

  141. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Just keep the gears of the economy rolling, don’t let them stop by destroying consumer’s ability to feed demand.

  142. Not Bloomberg News says:

    “IF” this works, potential use in subways, planes, hotels, offices, etc:


    Long Island MacArthur Airport has installed multiple CASPR Mobile units to reduce viruses and other microbes in the air and on surfaces in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic.

    This continuous pathogen reduction technology is currently installed at the airport’s ticketing counters, security checkpoints, gate areas and baggage claims in an effort to protect the 1.6 million passengers the airport serves each year.

    The technology extracts oxygen and moisture from ambient air using a natural catalytic converter process. It then produces and delivers trace levels of hydrogen peroxide to indoor spaces, at levels deemed by OSHA to be safe to people, pets, plants, and equipment.

    Once in the air, the hydrogen peroxide eliminates microbes in the air and on surfaces. CASPR is claimed to be effective against bacteria, viruses, molds, VOCs, odours, and more, with a kill rate of around 99.96%.

  143. Hold my beer says:

    Those budget shortfalls are no biggie. Just raise sales and income tax and borrow against the pension funds. Problem solved.

  144. Libturd the generous says:

    As a kind gesture to my neighbors, I’m smoking up Q for my entire block. I am giving it to them at cost. By Saturday at 6pm, I will have smoked and delivered 7 15 pound briskets, 18 racks of St. Louis Style Spare Ribs (so I can make burn ends off the trimmings) and 40 pounds of chicken quarters. I ordered the meat from Baldor and they shorted me 8 racks of ribs and 1 brisket. So I had to run down to Walmart in Kearny this morning. I got the last brisket Walmart has in north Jersey and 8 of the 10 racks of ribs they had in stock besides about 10 racks of baby backs which were super overpriced ($20 a rack). Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how much this nearly 200 pounds of meat cost? Keep in mind, the briskets were (5) prime, (1) American Wagyu and (1) Walmart Choice. I am feeding 13 families.

    Also, the meat shortage is coming, especially in beef. I would say they had about 1/4th of what their meat storage usually looks like. Baldor is nearly empty now too. Once restaurants open up, the shortage will probably really be felt.

    Those 15 pound briskets are gonna be having my block eating well for a month.

  145. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yes, and induce a depression. Now is not the time to be paying off debts. Seriously, just inflate away over years. Inflation doesn’t sap demand.

    Hold my beer says:
    May 14, 2020 at 8:56 am
    Those budget shortfalls are no biggie. Just raise sales and income tax and borrow against the pension funds. Problem solved.

  146. Hold my beer says:


    I think we will see a fruit shortage this fall too. Who is going to pick the apples, pears, and berries this summer?

  147. homeboken says:

    This is not meant to be a political gotcha question, I am generally confused:

    Why would an outgoing VP need to unmask the name of an incoming Director of an intelligence agency, with 8 days remaining in the outgoing VP’s term of elected service?

    Also, Ms. Powers told congress under oath, when presented with a chart showing several hundred unmasking requests, that “I don’t recall making anywhere near that number of requests”

    So this nice woman is about to have her life and reputation trashed because someone used her name/credentials to hide behind.
    Ms. Powers is lying.

    I would hope that Ms. Powers is interested in clearing her good name and helping find the people that used her as a pawn.
    She should be brought in to testify again, under oath, that she did not make those requests herself. Perhaps she has a different story now.

    Either she made the requests and is lying or someone committed multiple felonies in her name. There is no other answer as far as I can tell

  148. Libturd, always willing to help out the other side says:

    Maybe they’ll cut a hole in the wall.

    I have an idea that I think the red team should contemplate using.

    They should open up the boardwalks in NJ and since there is a shortage of international staff to run the shops, they can allow the recently laid off H1Bs from Iselin work them. With all of the turmeric they eat and the sun they’ll receive, they probably won’t spread the Covid.

  149. joyce says:

    Fabius’ intelligence knows no lower bound. My only guess is it’s a reference to the Karen meme. An erroneous attempt at wit, which could be used to sums up everything Fabius says.

    Chicago says:
    May 13, 2020 at 11:33 pm
    Fab: hopefully your last comment is some witty reference that is beyond me.

  150. homeboken says:

    Turmeric is a very under-rated spice. Now I am hungry for chilli.

  151. homeboken says:

    There have been a few twitter follow recommendations here the last few days, so I will throw one into the ring. @jonathanturley. You may remember him as a witness from the impeachment trial.

    I have found his tweets to be rooted in solid legal knowledge with very little, if any, political bias. He strikes me as a steward of the law first and foremost.

    Also – Richard Burr, Kelly Loeffler and any others that traded equities just after their senate briefing on COVID should be removed and prosecuted. I don’t care if they are D or R, profiting off the crisis, even in the name of a “blind trust” does not smell right to me at all. If they are proven to have broken the law, I hope they are severely punished for that.

  152. Juice Box says:

    Felonies? nope.

    Totally legal to use the NSA warrant-less wiretapping to spy on Americans. There is no oversight or checks and balances as you can see in that list of who’s who… Ambassador to Italy, Ambassador to the UN, heck the white house janitor probably has clearance. Bear in mind few of the people on the list are criminal investigators of any kind Spook or FBI.

    The surveillance state is only about to get stronger too Bernie missed the amendment vote so it passed the senate by his one missed vote.


  153. Juice Box says:

    Pumps – “People are such f’ing complainers”


  154. 3b says:

    Deflation is the answer. Slash everything 50 percent, hit reset and start over.

  155. chicagofinance says:

    Well, that’s interesting, I thought, as I noted that the RealClearPolitics homepage stated that President Trump was tied for his all-time high in CNN polling. Then I went over to the CNN homepage for confirmation. Guess what I found?

    The main story was about a church that lost 44 parishioners to COVID-19. The second-most prominent story told us that “Grocery Prices Are Soaring” (which is true if you think that a 2.6 percent increase in April should be called “soaring”), the third-most-prominent item told us, “Doctors treating coronavirus patients are seeing odd and frightening syndromes.” Running down the rail on the right we were given such important developments as “Man refusing to wear a mask breaks arm of Target employee,” “CNN Investigates: He’s willing to get Covid-19 to speed up vaccine efforts,” “Five surfers die after huge layer of sea foam hampers rescue” and “How coronavirus spread from one member to 87% of the singers at a choir practice.”

    Only after all of this stuff did we learn that CNN has a new poll out, under the headline, “CNN Poll: Biden tops Trump nationwide, but battlegrounds tilt Trump.” Polls are expensive, news organizations tend to hype them breathlessly to generate headlines in rival media outlets, Wednesday was (obviously) a slow news day, and politics is one of CNN’s core topics. Yet CNN seemed oddly unenthused about its own poll. And the story to which the homepage linked doesn’t mention that Trump had never scored higher in a CNN poll. True, there are lots of noisy data in the piece, most of which cut against Trump. But on the other hand the single most surprising and hence most newsworthy detail of the poll was that Trump holds a seven-point lead over Biden in the battleground states. The CNN story doesn’t even tell us what that figure is — seven points seems like a pretty big number — and downplays its own finding by noting, “Given the small sample size in that subset of voters, it is difficult to determine with certainty whether the movement is significant or a fluke of random sampling.”

    The headline of a different CNN news story about the same poll carries the headline, “CNN Poll: Negative ratings for government handling of coronavirus persist” over a picture of Trump looking downcast. This story, unlike the other one, mentions (but not till the fourth paragraph) that Trump’s approval rating of 45 percent “now matches his high point in CNN polling dating back to the start of his term.”

    I don’t want to spin this poll as great news for President Trump — he has a 55 percent disapproval rating, and only 36 percent think he’s a trustworthy source of information about the crisis — but the story of the 21st century has been persistently low faith in presidents, government, Congress, and the direction of the country. President Obama had an approval rating of about 48 percent at this point in May of 2012, on his way to being reelected by a wide margin. Joe Biden has an approval rating of only 45 percent, as against 46 percent disapproval, and that’s with Biden mostly shielded from public view. Biden’s penchant for gaffes largely escape notice when his public appearances mainly consist of reading from a Teleprompter in his basement, whereas Trump’s gaffes make headlines. Biden bears no responsibility for all the things that have gone wrong, whereas Trump not only gets heaped with blame, but the pressure of managing a crisis spurs him on to more gaffes. Trump probably doesn’t need to win a plurality of voters to win a majority of Electoral College votes. And being disliked by a majority didn’t stop him before: The day he was elected president, he had a 37.5 percent approval rating, according to the RealClearPolitics poll of polls.

    Biden does appear to be the favorite at the moment; he is, after all, leading in nationwide polls by an average of 4.5 percent, according to RealClearPolitics. He appears to have carved out a substantial lead among older voters, whom Trump has to thank for his win in 2016. Yet betting markets still rate Trump a big favorite. After three and a quarter years of the media talking themselves into believing the “walls are closing in,” “the noose is tightening,” and “the endgame has begun,” the voters don’t seem to be confirming that Trump is toast. On the contrary, they have substantially more positive views about Trump than they did when they elected him president. And Biden can’t hide in that basement forever.

  156. chicagofinance says:

    the above is Kyle Smith

  157. 3b says:

    A real estate article in MarketWatch this morning about the popping of the Bay Area real estate market by July. According to the person interviewed it’s going to be real ugly and worse than the financial crisis burst. The article is titled Next Shoe to Drop.

  158. 3b says:

    Surprised older voters support Biden, thought they would be more likely to support Trump.

  159. Juice Box says:

    3b – they can’t muster any inflation anymore so what are we seeing now?

    Deflation is way worse than inflation. MMT says so, deficits don’t matter, heck Pelosi is going for another 3 Trillion this week. Next month they will need do do it again.

    We are already at 4 Trillion Deficit this year alone with revenues that were expected to be $3.6 Trillion (not).

  160. Grim says:

    Hearing crazy anecdotes about multiple bid scenarios across nj.

  161. Libturd (breaking the echo chamber) says:


    The whole thing sounds made up. Like the pissing dossier. This whole Russian thing is so overdone.

    IMO, and I’m fairly certain this is how it played out, the Russian interference had nothing to do with Putin or the Russian government. Just a handful of hackers having fun at the expense of dumbass Americans. People think that hackers do everything for money. But the truth is, they do it for sport. Kind of like a graffiti artist.

    The interference was painfully obvious too. The names of the sources for the fake news articles were always the dead giveaway. Yet the meme-loving masses ate it up. And our politicians were no smarter. They too blamed the other side for the generation of this fake news.

    Ultimately, I don’t think there is any way you can stop it. Plus, you don’t need Russian hackers to generate this crap anymore. The far left and right wingbats have caught on and are doing it themselves. And it’s effective. And embarrassing. Nearly every new story on my Facebook page is one of these bullsh1t, persuasive stories. It’s gotten to the point that I no longer bother calling it out for the crapola that it is. Regardless of which side you point out the error to. You’ll simply be inundated by more moronic cheerleaders backed by less factual information than the original poster. It’s really has become a disease.

    I often pick fun at the teen youtube millionaires that my older son idolizes. I’ve watched a few of these guys just to see what the attraction is. The MO of all of them is to act like a 14 year-old even though they are all clearly in their mid 20s. Either they are gamers or pranksters. That’s it. And everyone of my son’s peers aspire to be the next youtube hero.

    I share this, because I am seeing the same phenomenon from adults. Though I’ve seen it mostly on the right, there are a few smart millenials on the left trying a similar feat. They all want to be the next Alex Jones. Not because they believe in the dumb movement they are proselytizing, but for the money it generates in web advertising. I do support free speech. I just worry about how stupid the nation has become. This collective stupidity, perhaps leading to an unwanted and unnecessary bloody civil war eventually.

    Something needs to happen about the divisiveness. It’s already gotten to the point where politics trumps common sense. And this is so very sad for a once proud nation.

  162. Juice Box says:

    3b – “popping of the Bay Area real estate market”

    Twitter CEO said you can now work remotely forever, the rest are starting to follow…

    Time to decamp to somewhere cheaper? You Betcha!

  163. 3b says:

    Grim: I know quite a few listings that went under contact in March and have all
    Fallen through. This is as per my wife.

  164. The Great Pumpkin says:

    There goes creativity. These tech companies are basically putting a gun to their head if they go this route.

    People really don’t realize how bad it is for society that people don’t leave their house. It’s downright dangerous to our health and emotional well being.

    Ever wonder why people that retire and sit in their house fall off a cliff pretty fast? Why would we advocate for this in society?

    Juice Box says:
    May 14, 2020 at 9:58 am
    3b – “popping of the Bay Area real estate market”

    Twitter CEO said you can now work remotely forever, the rest are starting to follow…

    Time to decamp to somewhere cheaper? You Betcha!

  165. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Deflation? Why would advocate for that? It’s almost impossible to escape once it gets going.

  166. Grim says:

    1.1 million unemployed in NJ.

  167. Grim says:

    Roughly 4 more weeks of PPP coverage.

    That would be the next big jump on UI.

  168. Kylibturd Smith says:


    Haven’t we learned not to trust polls?

    Plus there is most likely an increasing affect from landline/mobile skew. Most major polls split calls 50/50-landline/mobile. No one under 45 has a landline anymore. Everyone has mobile phones.

    Also, there is another impact where younger people don’t typically answer spam calls where old people not only answer them but often fall for the scam since they can’t figure out how to work voice mail.

    Sounds pretty convincing right? I can prove any of it!

  169. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And juice….human civilizations have always been more successful in consolidated locations. What are we going to spread out and become isolated in the name of cost? That’s the only way you bring down cost, go to places where not many want to live.

  170. ExEssex says:

    It’s not “want to live” it’s able to live. Many folks would love to decamp to cheaper areas, there just aren’t the jobs to support them. If remote work become the norm, look for many to flee the big urban jungles.

  171. 3b says:

    Ex I agree. People can’t have it both ways. Cheering for house price inflation because it personally benefits them and too bad about the younger generation. Now because of the pandemic it appears that work from home is going to be embraced on a much larger scale. That will negatively impact housing prices and rents in the urban areas and the close in suburbs. The Boomers and Gen X have had their day with stock market and real estate asset inflation.

  172. Hold my beer says:

    good luck relocating. The nanny state will jack up the exit tax to keep y’all sheltering in place.

  173. 30 year realtor says:

    Hard to sell occupied properties right now. Many pieces have to fall into place.

    It is too soon to tell anything about COVID-19 home sales. Stay at home order in effect since 3/21. Even in a perfect world it is unlikely many homes listed after the order went into place have closed.

    There is demand for homes. In my opinion values can only decrease as the pandemic lingers.

  174. The Great Pumpkin says:


    No one wants to live in the middle of nowhere after growing up in metro areas. Go live in farm areas of Sussex county, it gets old and boring fast when you are used to a certain lifestyle.

    You are basically taking the position that cities and surrounding metro areas will die…I call bs. WFH is a minor trend based off current conditions, it will never work in the long term because companies that turn to WFH will lose in the long term to companies that take the in person social route. People just feed off each other when it is in person and are better managed.

    Put it this way, would you want to raise your child from zoom, now imagine managing a company this way…screwed in the long term. Just like a child needs a physical presence, so do workers.

  175. homeboken says:

    Pumpkin – The question isn’t do I want to live in a neary NYC suburb of NJ or in rural NJ.

    A resident that has no found housing opportunities via work from home is much more likely to be considering a longer distant move, ie out of state.

    Going from Bergen to Sussex accomplishes very little. Going from Bergen to Tennessee or Florida offers a life-style change, improved tax position and more.

    When I hear people considering a permanent work from home, I don’t think anyone thinks “Finally, I can get my dream home near the Del Water Gap”

  176. BoomerRemover says:

    Would love to decamp for Bucks Co. or Los Angeles if there is a shift in attitude.

    I provide consulting services for HNWs which has me interfacing with their corporate licensors. I have 15+ in industry and good rapport. I’ve been slowly putting together the groundwork to automate my processes in the cloud and launch a B2B Platform As A Service. The VP’s I pitched to said you are light years ahead of the competition but we can’t open up our API’s because of this hack or that hack or the chief privacy officer pulled me aside last year and this and that…north korea, bla bla…

    I am hopeful that as WFH picks up – that’s work from home and not work for hire – and business travel drops off companies are forced to reevaluate their policies towards the review of documents previously on-site and now on-line. Strike while hot.

  177. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And if we start this WFH trend and it becomes norm…why would you hire Americans? You can go to Africa or Asia and get it cheap.

    WFH is dangerous. It will be the end of our American society as we know it..

  178. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And if loads of people do this, why would it remain cheap? Places that are the most desirable to live in will always command the highest cost. That’s why I said rural…

    “Going from Bergen to Sussex accomplishes very little. Going from Bergen to Tennessee or Florida offers a life-style change, improved tax position and more.”

  179. Juice Box says:

    Pumps too late horses have left the barn.

  180. Fast Eddie says:

    Hearing crazy anecdotes about multiple bid scenarios across nj.

    Just got off the phone with one of my clients. He listed his house two days ago, has two offers on the table at the moment.

  181. Juice Box says:

    Wife’s co-worker just sold, it was a bidding war on a crap-shack in Westfield.

  182. Fabius Maximus says:

    Nothing to all this Russian stuff. Maybe the forgot to switch the locale on the Bots.


  183. Hold my beer says:

    I think Enough New Yorkers will want to wfh and will flee to bedroom communities so they can social distance and be able to go into the city if necessary. If you or your spouse or kid had a comorbidity, how comfortable would you feel having to take an elevator every time you wanted to enter or leave your home?

    New jerseyans can relocate to the south or Midwest and New Yorkers will move into New Jersey. And Chinese looking to keep money away from ccp will buy the now empty units in New York. One of the reasons Chinese buy real estate in the US and Australia is because there is no treaty between those countries and China allowing China to confiscate overseas property if the Chinese citizen gets convicted of some type of fraud.

  184. 3b says:

    Juice He don’t wanna hear it, WFH is a minor trend according to the guy who has never worked in corporate America!! He should go tell that to the head of Morgan Stanley!!

  185. 3b says:

    Juice you have to be very confident buying a house in this environment that you will still have a job.

  186. Juice Box says:

    Inlaws are now coming for the summer, seems they don’t want to be out in the country by themselves. Kids Camp may not happen next month so who knows what the summer will be like. At least I have my backyard oasis with a nice new heated in-ground pool and my red neck hot tub. We have a new puppy coming next week too.

    I may now have to find myself a small space to “work” aka hide. I could convert my 10 x 12 wooden shed into a man cave. Might be a fun project, just need a little bit of power to run an AC, TV and a laptop and maybe a small beer fridge..

  187. 3b says:

    Juice :Summer will be in the backyard!! Might have to get a blow up pool!!

  188. Juice Box says:

    3b -screw the blow up pool. Get the red neck hot tub, if you can find one as they are sold out.


  189. FakeNewsHoaxes says:

    For people who thought the rt287 corridor was an impenetrable bubble and overbought accordingly, their world view has been shaken to the core.

    Absent any scientific breakthroughs that area and any others which are dependent on mass transit are dead. It would take them a generation or as long as it takes the virus to socialize before they start to recover.

  190. FakeNewsHoaxes says:

    Other than the self deluded, what kind of idiot relies on Twitter for news?

  191. 3b says:

    Juice: I need that!! For 400 bucks can’t go wrong!!

  192. homeboken says:

    Fake – I held that same belief. I remember being at jury duty and there were many questions to potential jurors about where we consume news. Every person, under the age of 30 (or appearance anyway) answered Twitter as their #1 source for news.

    It’s really only different than other news aggregators (Drudge for ex) in that the user self-selects the content by following certain people.

    So it for sure has a bias and echo chamber effect.

  193. The Great Pumpkin says:


    You are a clown. They wrote off NYC after 9/11, stating that no one would ever want to go in a sky scraper again…how that work out?

    How many times have people made dumb claims that nyc’s run is over, and what has happened every single time? It has come back bigger and stronger.

    You guys calling for the end of the nyc metro market are straight up delusional.

  194. Juice Box says:

    3b – re: corporate America.

    I am privy to the liability discussions, the costs are going to go way way up to maintain office space. We are looking at tech to assist….

    Human body temperature sensors https://www.duthermx.com/

  195. Juice Box says:

    another one to measure & monitor the density of people in your workplace


  196. BoomerRemover says:

    Are what we are seeing in various Asian counties – the temp scanners, fumigation and street high pressure washing – eventually coming to a dense US metro in any capacity?

  197. FakeNewsHoaxes says:

    Shlt for brains, unless there is an effective vaccine or treatment, this will have the psychological effect of recurring 9/11s — every time there is an outbreak.

  198. Nomad says:

    Starting at 1 live Zoom event. Minneapolis Fed, Kashari along with Dr. Michael Osterholm.



  199. Libturd, the Master Beta says:


    I kid you not. We purchased what was probably the last affordable Intex pool directly from Intex earlier this week. You may be able to get one of their $1,500 pools still at some little pool shops in west bumblefukc, but not from any major retailer. We got one of their basic (disposable quality, might last two years) 18 x 18 x 4 circles for $550. With shipping, it was the same cost as our pool membership. We also bought a solar pool cover for $50 shipped. When I went on their web site, there were no other pools left on that page and they had about 15 models to choose from. I stuck it in my cart, searched a bunch of other places online and couldn’t find a single one of nearly any size or quantity except for the $1,500 and up ones. I only wish they were publicly traded.

    If running electric to the shed is a PITA. Just get a small generator. A $300 Champion would give you all you need power wise. Plus, it’s nice to have a place to cool off when the power goes out in the Summer.

  200. Juice Box says:

    Boomer – Asia leads the way.

    Here is a recent video from Singapore they are open for business now.

    SafeEntry digital check-in system


  201. 3b says:

    Juice: I was thinking there would be liability concerns. The whole open floor plan for the office is dead. Although it was supposedly done to spur creativity and team work which is BS it was done to save money. So those companies that do go back to the office will now have to spread people out, which means more space. They can get around that by having more people work from home.

  202. ExEssex says:

    11:21 our society…. burn it to the f’ing ground.
    Schools, open office workspaces, all suuuuuuck.
    Good riddance.

  203. Libturd says:

    Which knucklehead among us left the voice mail on my work mailbox with the Alex Jones style interview on it?

    It was mildly entertaining. Now please let it end with this. And let me remind you, never ever fcuk with the father of a child who had a malignant brain tumor. We’ve been through three wars already. Kicking your ass and going Columbine on some of your relatives would not be beyond my means. I am that guy who lets the air out of the tires of those who take up two spaces and those who park in disabled spots illegally.

  204. ExEssex says:

    On a separate note. Never happier than to have sunk cash in a place with a pool & hot tub. Since that’s the only game in town. Wetsuits in the Ocean out here.

  205. Libturd the detective says:

    The spoofed number was from Philly. I would guess it was Nom or Moose, but I doubt either of ’em know how to spoof.

  206. Juice Box says:

    Lib – I have had the Intex spa/hottub for three seasons now, bought it used for $200. I put it away in the winter. This year I bought perhaps the last replacement tub available in March from Intext direct for $160. They do spring air leaks from kids abuse and sun wear at seams over time. Intext manufacturing is shutdown so get filters and parts now if you can.

    I upgraded my outdoor oasis with a 350,00 BTU gas heater this season as we knew we would be home every day. I had the landscapers dig 80 ft trench for the gas line, getting a new pool liner too and replacing other equipment. Also had a new electric upgrade 220 V for the pool pad, new super quiet Pentair energy efficient pool pump to go with the heater, and converted my in-ground pool to salt. The pool equipment is 30 ft away from my shed. I did not have the electrician run a line to the shed as the shed is not legal, they are supposed to be 10 ft from property line so no permit possible. If I do the man cave shed I am going trench myself under the flower bed and add my own single hot 120V direct burial cable to the shed from the pool pad, easy peasy.

    I am also looking perhaps a ductless 9-000-btu dc inverter mini-split AC/Heater, only need a small hole in the shed for it, cost is reasonable for Heat and AC.

    Plans are it will be a crowded summer entertaining here, family will be too afraid to mingle on the boards or the sand this summer.

    Now I need to stock up on fireworks. A trip to PA is in order…. Every Saturday night it will be lit up at my place from now to September…

  207. Libturd says:


    I nearly bought Gator the hot tub for her birthday this winter as I know someone who has one that swears by it. He said the heater is great once the water is warm, but to fill it with a hose from your utility sink or it takes a week to warm up.

    Sounds like you got the ideal pad for the virus. We are close to finalizing ours.

    For those following my cord cutting. Will run Fubo on my Apple TV for now. It’s pricey, but we are a big sports family and they have a pretty damn ideal package of channels for us. The built in DVR is nice too. Also, need the three simultaneous users.

    So we will be saving $70 a month, having 300% faster internet without the dumb bridged Fios Router which is making it impossible for me to put the VPN in the router. We have an antenna which gets us the local crap. And we are still saving $70 a month, Maybe $80 if they give us a bundle discount since we use Verizon Wireless. Will be cutting the wire on Saturday. Today and tomorrow, the focus is BBQ.

    Will probably go to the cube and 5G when it becomes acceptable.

  208. Libturd says:

    I think I might still get Gator this one.


  209. Juice Box says:

    Lib – These inflatable hot tubs do not get hot in winter, heating element is 120V and runs off only 15-amp power supply, takes 24 hr to heat and will stay there at 104 degrees until outside temp drops below 60 degrees. For 2020 there is a a new version the Simple Spa model # 28481E retails for $350 at Walmart. Has an additional mesh layer for strength and a better insulated cover.


    Walmart had them all sold out in early March, no stock anywhere, so I bought the replacement tub for my model direct from the manufacturer as the heater and pump works fine.

    I did consider a better fiberglass spa for $3k-$5k but I know I won’t go out and use in the winter, few people do unless you are skiing in the mountains etc on vacation.

  210. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Apple TV rules…runs perfectly for me. Easy and highly organized for content. Plus if you have other Apple devices like Apple home pods, it works well with them.

    I have Hulu, Netflix, ESPN plus, amazon, Disney +, Apple TV +, dc (for a few series) and run my live tv through att tv.

    Att tv I am grandfathered into a plan that doesn’t exist, so I stick with it.

    If you are a new customer, cable tv is fighting back with some good deals.

    I have been streaming for two years. So far enjoy it, but miss my MSG sports.

  211. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Which knucklehead among us left the voice mail on my work mailbox with the Alex Jones style interview on it?

    It was mildly entertaining. Now please let it end with this. And let me remind you, never ever fcuk with the father of a child who had a malignant brain tumor. We’ve been through three wars already. Kicking your ass and going Columbine on some of your relatives would not be beyond my means. I am that guy who lets the air out of the tires of those who take up two spaces and those who park in disabled spots illegally.

    I once let the air out of a girl’s tires at Rutgers when she cut me off to take the last spot in the commuter lot. I politely said I was waiting for that spot with my blinker and she responded “I have to get to class” and walked off. But the funnier part about it was I took my wheel lock off and put it on her newly flattened tire so she couldn’t get it off.

  212. Fast Eddie says:

    I once had a girl… um… never mind, wrong forum. ;)

  213. chicagofinance says:

    Turd: what is Fubo?

  214. JCer says:

    Is the cord cutting actually worth it? I pay about $145 all in, including tax for every channel with fios(ultimate with HBO, showtime, Cinemax, stars, etc), 100Mbps internet, and phone. I pay 12 bucks a month for Tivo, which I bought something like 5 years ago, VZ fios only has the copy bit enabled on FX channels, HBO, Cinemax and showtime.

    So my system dumps all of my DVR content to a 20TB NAS sitting in my basement and it is served up by plex. I can watch all of my content from anywhere in the world…..not too useful right now! The main TV’s have tivo minis, I don’t pay for any streaming service, I use prime video because it comes with prime, FIOS also enables all the streaming apps for the channels I have so I can use all of that content for free. If I want to watch something on Netflix I can use my sister’s or my mom’s account I don’t watch it often at all only if it’s a series I really want to watch. I put fireTV sticks on all my TV’s at $20 a piece they work well enough, on my LG smart tv I just use the built in features it actually works fairly well and support airplay from the phone.

    Not streaming so much video means that the 100 mbps internet, it might actually be 200mbps is plenty fast so no need to upgrade there. I was paying ~$130 before my contract lapsed. I figure if internet is $50-75 by the time I purchase a little bit of content I’ll be over $100 a month and getting sports costs even more so the savings won’t amount to much of anything. If anything I think I could easily switch to Comcast for a year to get introductory pricing again, I did that in the past when VZ wouldn’t play ball on the pricing. Comcast is so bad I’ll gladly pay a bit more to avoid them. I had there highest internet speed and it never achieved advertised speeds maybe at 3am but not during normal hours.

  215. JCer says:

    WFH, has it’s place and can be productive but it isn’t for everything. It is much harder to collaborate without being co-located at least some of the time. Unlike Pumps I actually think in the current work scenario your distant burbs actually become appealing. Think about the appeal of a place within 2 hours of the city with lower costs or in the case of the Jersey Shore the beach! Same goes for California, unless you are high on the food chain i.e earning big money, the ability to keep your SF salary while say living somewhere outside the stratosphere of silicon valley is huge, if you have to have a bad commute 1-2 days a week that is not so terrible.

    In your 20’s and 30’s being in a city is great, you have time to enjoy it. By the time you have kids you don’t have time, you cannot go out on week nights between work and family you are cooked. You aren’t doing what you once did, people without kids really can take advantage of what a city offers. My sister lives out in Chester, the cost of housing is better, the taxes are lower, the schools are good, if you only have to go to the city 1 day a week it becomes doable(the train ride is LONG from Gladstone an hour and 45 minutes easily plus the drive to the station you probably are looking at a 2.5hr commute).

    Why would I need to live in suburban essex or bergen or union county if I don’t need to go into work every day? But the ability to go when I need to is big, cutting yourself off completely is not an appealing option. For most of us state income tax isn’t that big of a headache, and it only substantially improves if you move to florida or another no tax state, even with 500k a year in gross income we are talking about 30k in state taxes even cutting it in half isn’t going to really move the needle and forget about florida, bad schools, bad weather, high property taxes and crime! Nice to visit, good for retirees but forget about summer there and it isn’t without problems.

  216. JCer says:

    fubo is streaming that has all the sports channels, based on the pricing you might as well have cable…. even looking at just hockey you are at 7-8 months where you need service.

  217. grim says:

    We have moved more than 40,000 people home around the world. Nobody wants to come back. Even the stalwart high security crew has capitulated.

    No big thaaaang.

    We aren’t planning on bringing them back in a brick and mortar.

  218. grim says:

    Absenteeism is down.

    Employee satisfaction is up.

    Attrition is down.

    Costs are down.

    At any point in time we have more than 4,000 prequalified/pending candidates to hire in the US alone.

  219. 3b says:

    Jcer: I agree with your analysis that the exurbs become more desirable, funny how things change. Someone I know closed a week ago on their sale of a house in Hunterdon Co On the market for 2 years. Sold for 30k less than they paid 15 years prior. Plus they put 100k into improvements. Kids are raised and they took off to Florida.

  220. 3b says:

    Juice Amazon has red neck spas at 700 bucks by Intec. Still not a bad price.

  221. grim says:

    Backyard mullets…

  222. grim says:

    Sars-cov completely inactivated, nearly immediately at 0.5mg/l free chlorine.

    The CDC recommended free chlorine level for a pool is 1mg/l. Most pools run far higher, especially pubic pools around 2-4mg/l.

    At 8x the effective concentration, at your local town pool, you would be literally swimming in antiviral disinfectant. It may actually be safer than staying in your own house.

    Hope you guys bought chlorine and test kids for your backyard petri dishes. Warm hot tub? Cess Pool.

  223. BoomerRemover says:

    I pay $45 for internet. Everything else is currently “free”. We used to have a Netflix account now just use a family members, same for HBO and Disney+. We weren’t always like this and actually provided users to others, but decided our shift was over some time ago. Our Spotify Premium is on the chopping block ($17) but we find we are enjoying our Sonos more than ever on account of being home.

    Fubo also has European road cycling, which likely isn’t happening this year even in the compressed season pitched recently.

  224. 3b says:

    Grim: thanks for the information on that. Definitely have to be mindful and careful.

  225. Juice Box says:

    3B – it’s is a big markup, from $400, a cheap plastic headrest and a beverage holder is what the added to it. I am cheap as the come Irish. How about get some friends with a truck and a case of beer and go pick up this one it’s free.

    Might need to cut a hole in your deck or build a frame to support it.


  226. Juice Box says:

    Grim – did you forget we drink Clorox shots during appetizers?

    Kids are comedians ya know they think it’s funny to turn the water warm or worse drop a doodie!


    I have all the pool chemicals and test kits in the world. After a big party I sanitize my pool and drain the hot tub.

  227. Fat Fast Eddie says:

    My neighbor was trying to get me to convert to salt water… I just don’t like it. I’ve swam/swum/swimmed in salt water pools and didn’t like it. I like the chlorine in a pool. Color me strange. Now, if salt melts all this bloated fat away, then maybe I would think about it.

  228. Libturd says:

    I went from $165 to $90, improved our sports coverage significantly and tripled our internet speed. We can also stream to any device, home or away.

    The truth is, I could probably get it all for free and illegal except for the internet access of course. But the interface for Kodi is a POS and we already use Plex to serve out movies we download through torrents.

    What’s really pathetic is that my grandfathered FIOS package, free huge multi-room DVR, no router rental (Quantam), 900 or so channels including all of the main paid ones except for HBO ($10 more), land line (FIOS VOICE) and 50/50 internet is truly a bargain. The problem is. We don’t need a land line. We watch about 20 channels in all. We hardly use the DVR and I can always find a software based 3rd-party DVR.

    So for us, it’s a no-brainer, though $90 a month (tax included) still sounds high to most. It sounds great compared with when we were paying $165!

    Our only other recurring monthly charge is Sirius XM at some insane rate of like $5 a month including the internet package. No Spotify, Disney Plus is Free, Showtime was in our package, no music services, but we do pay for Prime. I used to just make a new email address and got prime for free for like the past seven years, but I got sick of doing it. Oh, I pay for our VPN at $2.66 a month. Now my Verizon Wireless bill is scary monster. 4 phones all with unlimited internet. Mine is true unlimited. Everyone else gets ratcheted down. I often had to tether (before Covid-19). 4 lines, $170. So I was paying $340 a month to Verizon. How is that stock not up to the moon?

  229. Libturd says:

    Eddie. To each their own, but you are the first person I’ve ever heard say that. Ever!

  230. Fat Fast Eddie says:

    Yahoo is insufferable. Why do I have it as my homepage? Practically every article is doom and gloom with Trump as the cause. Fridge broke down? Trump’s fault. Feeling blue? Trump’s fault. Spouse yells at you? Trump’s fault. I hit my homepage and what do I see? “Cancer death decrease attributed to Obamacare.” LOL! Not the affordable care act but Oblammy Care. He’s a G0d!! It’s a f.ucking comedy. The mainstream media truly s.ucks.

  231. Fat f.uck Eddie says:


    I know. I really do like the aroma of chlorine in a pool. Like I said, color me strange.

  232. grim says:

    Salt pools are chlorinated.

    NaCl is split into sodium and free chlorine by the salt cell.

  233. Fat F.uck Eddie says:

    Things that turn me on: The aroma of chlorine bleach, wet cement and the texture of newly minted money. Lol! Okay, go ahead and analyze me. Oh, I still like the aroma of gasoline too, even though I was a gas jockey for many years.

  234. Fast Eddie says:

    Salt pools are chlorinated.

    Ya can’t smell it! Ya not adding chlorine to a salt water pool.

  235. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Give it some time..I’m figuring these are low cost employees. They will be even more miserable than they were in time. Especially if they have an addiction, no good being home all day when you are an alcoholic or druggy.

    How bout the depressed people…that’s great to be home 24/7. Really healthy for them…productivity should go way up over time.

    Just wait till you see all the problems that come with WFH..

    grim says:
    May 14, 2020 at 3:18 pm
    Absenteeism is down.

    Employee satisfaction is up.

    Attrition is down.

    Costs are down.

    At any point in time we have more than 4,000 prequalified/pending candidates to hire in the US alone.

  236. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Any coincidence that domestic abuse is way up since the quarantine…

    Writing is on the wall. It’s healthy to get outside and have a change of environments. No good to be stuck in the same one staring at a screen 24/7. It’s fine for the short term, but not long term.

  237. The Great Pumpkin says:


    It saved me money because all I have is one choice for provider. So I can’t get the good deals that new customers get. I talk them down every year, but streaming ended up being cheaper for me. Saved a lot when att tv was 30 dollars a month….now it’s 69 including taxes and fees.

    I’ve seen the new offers for new customers and they are impossible to beat with cutting the cord.

  238. The Great Pumpkin says:

    New offers for cable companies…optimum offers some sick deals and some of them are even lifetime contracts. Catch…new customer.

  239. 3b says:

    Pumps I said I won’t respond to you, but really STFU!! You figure they are low cost employees well you would be wrong again as fecking usual. Many of us here are in the corporate/business/Wall Street world. You are not!! We are involved in multiple meetings and interactions with Senior Management. You really don’t have a GD clue and you should not be commenting on this WFH topic at all. And once again it all goes back to value of your house in Wayne. If WFH becomes the norm or dramatically increases my house value will go down as no one will care if you are 23 miles from Manhattan.

  240. 3b says:

    I love salt water pools and hot tubs!!

  241. Hold my beer says:

    Now I see why Walmart loses money on its online business. I placed a $40 order on Monday so I would qualify for free shipping on $35 and up orders. There are walmart’s all over my area. I think every town with at least 20,000 people has at least one walmart supercenter or walmart neighborhood grocery store. Today I got 1 pack of cookies I paid $3.50 for. It was shipped from South Carolina. 6 cans of pineapple, 2 bags of flour, and a different pack of cookies was shipped from Indiana. I don’t get it. I would have thought the national brands would have come from one of the several dozen stores that are within 40 miles of me and dropped off by van or box truck.

  242. ExEssex says:

    Holy Crap. Just went outside to check the pool temp.
    My gas heater has been on for…. days…? The pool is like a bathtub.
    I’m sure my gas bill will be huuuuuge.

  243. Juice Box says:

    3b – My better half works in lower Manhattan a place you know well. They just asked for volunteers to come back sometime next month. Plan is 25% return of the workforce in phase 1 but get this only 12.5 % are in the building at any one time, so two weeks on and two weeks remote for that 25% of the workforce, rest still 100% remote. I am hearing no volunteers so far. Who would with kids and no school or camp is going back anytime soon? Perhaps some kiss ass 25 years olds with no liabilities.

  244. Juice Box says:

    So while we were doing our happy hour this evening online with about 75 people I went to Home Depot and picked up 30 additional bags of mulch, stopped at Chipotle for a dinner pickup and then stopped for some booze, all the while on the happy hour call. Who wants to go back to work and sit in a dreary bar with these people? Not me….

    Tomorrow is mulch while I stop for conference calls and perhaps a dip in my pool between meetings. I have the heater cranking right now to get it up to 85 from 60 as it’s going up to 85 tomorrow here in Jersey. Welcome to summer folks….

  245. Tom Clifton says:

    @Juice. A lot of asset managers doing the one week one/off. Neuberger for sure

  246. Juice Box says:

    re: “Walmart loses money on its online business.”

    Jersey Boy Marc Lore runs part of the business, but grocery is a problem for anyone.

    No perishables ship from regular Walmart fulfillment centers, so food like you ordered ships from stores and really that can be a problem as the on hands inventory need to be picked and packed by an Walmart associate. They are trying some things to compete but really picking of online grocery orders at the store level of a superstore has to be a real time wasting pain in the arse. The have a new pilot program called Alphabot using warehouses with robots but that program is in it’s infancy.

  247. grim says:

    Walmart will never be a leader in eCommerce. They tried to run it out of Bentonville.

    …and that failed.

    It’s so foreign to their culture they tried to give it it’s own home far away from the HQ to even stand a chance.

    …and that failed.

    So they bought a successful eCommerce company.

    Then their culture killed that too.

    Rinse, repeat.

  248. D-FENS says:

    1500 sqft mediocre houses near me in the exurbs are selling. Bidding wars. Maybe it’s anecdotal.

  249. Juice Box says:

    Grim – agree problem is not the tech or the now terminated tech folks from Cali…I mean Jesus one of the first with React!!…I saw Mark not too long ago talk about the robots and fulfillment Nexus and delivery etc and the resistance. They are being forced to change now as ship from stores is exactly what “Hold my beer” experienced.

    They still have plenty to burn unlike most in retail….

  250. Juice Box says:

    D-FENS – anecdotal zip code?

  251. grim says:

    3 houses in my hood just flipped to under contract.

  252. Juice Box says:

    Grim – you are gonna give pumps a boner……

  253. 3b says:

    Juice: Yeah, I have been downtown Manhattan since High School and College, part time job, then on to Goldman for years in municipal bond land, and still down there now, no longer at Goldman, but it was a great place to work when it was a partnership.

    Anyhow it makes sense they would try to do something like your wife’s place is doing, but as you say whether it works or not remains to be seen. A week on and off makes sense and could work. However, WFH , is not going a way and will become a major part of how corporate America works. I never thought you would have a situation where you could do trading and sales from home! Is WFH going to completely eliminate offices? No, at least not right away, but the whole go to an office to preform a function is you could argue dated going back to around the 17 th century. But to have someone just dismiss WFH as just for low paid workers based on nothing and because he does not the potentially negative impact personally is just amazing.

  254. Juice Box says:

    3b – We can only refer back there is no looking forward……Social stratification is going to make a huge comeback if there is no vaccine. My simplistic “internet” research says so.

    Folks google “social stratification” if you forgot about history as many do…..

  255. D-FENS says:


    Juice Box says:
    May 14, 2020 at 8:29 pm
    D-FENS – anecdotal zip code

  256. JCer says:

    Juice, I feel like my neighbors think I’m crazy I weed while on conference calls with the earbuds in. Didn’t think others were like like this. The common thread with a lot of the folks on this site, we are CHEAP…..

  257. Chicago says:

    For trading and advisory, WFH is ok because of the regulatory waiver. But NFW they let it persist beyond the virus cure. It would be a compliance nightmare. And it the long run too expensive. UNLESS the rollback is permanent.

  258. juice box says:

    D-FENS – do you occasionally hear banjoes?
    I kid as after all these weeks I was a fool and should have set sail…

    Anyone here binge watch Delos on youtube?

  259. 3b says:

    Chicago They are actually handling the compliance aspect of it at the moment for now. But I agree completely at home no, but certainly some kind of hybrid is possible.

  260. D-FENS says:

    Fcuk off

    juice box says:
    May 14, 2020 at 9:10 pm
    D-FENS – do you occasionally hear banjoes?
    I kid as after all these weeks I was a fool and should have set sail…

    Anyone here binge watch Delos on youtube?

  261. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Isn’t this what I always stated? Just the market going to work. Spillover…they will drive up the value spreading out eventually making the city a bargain again. It’s a cycle…happening right before our eyes.

    Juice Box says:
    May 14, 2020 at 8:39 pm
    Grim – you are gonna give pumps a boner……

  262. Juice Box says:

    D-FENS – intention was humor “I kid” and not at your expense. Did you cut a fart or a check?

    I can send big giant balloon with postage collect….

  263. Chicago says:

    Little did my 11 year old self understand

  264. Juice Box says:

    All is well folks Pumps has a hard on!

    “See ya!’

    Quoted from the least quoted man alive.

  265. Hold my beer says:

    Walmart just started offering delivery of perishables in my area for $12.95 a month or a cheaper rate if you pay for a full year. I might sign up for it this August in case we get a second round of the virus. Haven’t looked into it so don’t know if it is Walmart or Instacart doing the shopping and delivery.

    Still can’t believe my birthday cake Oreos and chewy chips ahoy got shipped from South Carolina and Indiana . There are 5 super centers and 2 neighbor stores with 20 minutes of me. Yet they shipped a pack of $3.50 cookies free shipping ups from South Carolina. Since they’ve been doing curbside pickup at the stores for at least a year how hard is it to pull the items off the shelf and either ship it ups or have a delivery van making rounds for each store?

    I can understand the flour because that brand is no longer in my local walmart, but dole fruit and Oreos are in every traditional grocery store in the country.

  266. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Juice Box says:
    May 14, 2020 at 9:33 pm
    All is well folks Pumps has a hard on!

    “See ya!’

    Quoted from the least quoted man alive.

  267. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Anyone with any kids at the elementary can attest that this situation is having an awful impact on kids psychologically. They have been isolated from their friends. They don’t fully understand what’s happening or why. My observation is that only children in the neighborhood are getting extra messed up. Moreover, there is real damage to the kids from an educational standpoint where they missed significant instruction. If the school systems don’t make up for it, there’s going to be gaps within their foundation that persist all throughout their k-12 education.

  268. njtownhomer says:


    Big news, the tide of globalisation is mean reverting.

  269. Libturd says:

    I just took another look at the virus charts to see if the second wave is starting since the timing of reported cases based on the beginning of the freedom to be infected movement should be starting to show on the national charts. Now I wouldn’t say there is exactly a spike happening. But in many places, it does appear that the dropping rate of infections has either stopped dropping or is just starting to increase. Still, the change is not terribly significant yet. If I’m correct (which I truly don’t want to be), you’ll see the 2nd wave clear as day by the end of next week. And if it does, I pray we don’t reach that critical mass where the numbers explode upwards exponentially like they did in our area back in late March.

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