C19 Open Discussion Week 26c

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106 Responses to C19 Open Discussion Week 26c

  1. Fast Eddie says:

    Solemn is the first thought that comes to mind seeing that picture.

  2. Juice Box says:

    11 January 2021 Is the trial date set for them men charged with planning the 9/11
    Attacks, military court trial to be held in Gitmo.

  3. Juice Box says:

    News today is Pompeo is off to negotiate the end of the War In Afghanistan, our longest war going on 19 years now that began on October 7 2001 after the Taliban refused to turn over Osama. Perhaps that is Just another reason why there is a campaign against him from the right, he did say a few days ago that top Defense Department leaders want to keep waging wars in order to keep defense contractors “happy.”, so no votes or endorsements or money from the MIC. I do hope he gets it done and ends the war, he can get a consolation prize from the Norwegians on his way out the door.

  4. 30 year realtor says:

    Always remember driving down the Turnpike heading for Jersey City and seeing the plume of smoke from the first tower. Switched my radio from 102.7 FM to 880 AM to find out where the smoke was coming from. Before I reached my destination a plane struck the 2nd tower.

  5. homeboken says:

    19 years later and we are still in Afghanistan, fighting a war to keep the military industrial complex in profits.

    Sec. Pompeo is in Afghanistan today to finalize a plan to fully transition control to the local people. Bring US troop presence in Afghanistan to zero.

    That is how you show support for the military. You don’t send them to die for a cause that has no current benefit to our nation.

  6. RC NJ says:

    I remember listing to Harry Harrison on CBSFM in the office. Between records he said a small plane with the WTC. Then the second plane hit, he broke into the song and they went to the CBS TV new feed. I was working in an office building in Woodbridge and we could see them in the distance and watched the whole thing in silence except for some coworkers crying. Looking out the other window we could see all cars on the TPK pulled over on the shoulder watching. Even writing this gives me chills.

  7. NJCoast says:

    I remember it like it was yesterday. The blue sky. Waiting at the ferry in the Atlantic Highlands. The dust on my husband’s clothes. Gathering at the boardwalk and the relief when somebody reported they were home. The horrible feeling realizing some friends weren’t coming home. Uncertainty and confusion.

  8. Grim says:

    Watched from the shoulder on the Turnpike.

    Boss and I were heading down to Dover, Delaware for a meeting. We had just gotten on the Tpke a few minutes earlier from Rt 3. Cars were pulling over and stopping, we had no idea. We pulled over and flipped to the news to find out.

  9. Libturd says:

    The trade deficit is now at a 12-year high. The government also said this week that the budget deficit hit $3 trillion in August. September is the final month in the Federal government’s fiscal year. When the fiscal year is up, the deficit will be about $3.3 trillion, give or take. This will be the first time since World War II that the deficit was larger than the economy.

    Yes Biden sucks.

    Juice…crime is not that bad down there. None the less, I probably will hire my own security. It’s so cheap!

  10. 1987 Condo says:

    Both my brothers were FDNY BC (battalion chief), oldest was first due in downtown manhattan, other brother next due out of Red Hook, did not hear anything all morning, so by noon I told my wife I would drive up to my SIL in orange county, we saw the buildings fall and they were obviously gone…..except as I walked out the door my SIL called on my cell, both brothers had off rotation that day…miracle of course…unfortunately both their local houses and battalions were decimated…

  11. Fast Eddie says:

    I was standing outside, at Exchange Place having coffee with a colleague, right by the water. The sound of the first plane hitting from our location was the same startling sound a dump truck makes when it lurches forward to slam the dump truck door against it’s metal body to clear the bed. It was that loud from across the water. People began to gather, staring at the first building. The smoke was so black. I saw the 2nd plane approach as it caught my eye by the Verrazano Bridge. I said to my colleague, why is that plane flying so low? After the 2nd one hit, we then knew it was an act of terr0rism.

  12. homeboken says:

    I am really fiscally conservative, I hate the idea of growing the deficit or stimulus money.

    However, what we have done in 2020 is absurd. We shut down our economy, willingly shut it down. Put 30 million people out of work, at the height of the pandemic.

    The decisions to shut down the economy has cost. Many here were saying it from day one. The cost of the pandemic will be astronomical, even when compared to the cost of saving lives.

    Now to hear some complain that we are running a deficit or had to artificially stimulate the economy and judge those actions as foolish. Well, that tells me that the person holding those beliefs is not a very bright person. There is not a market in the world that can be shut off instantly and then turned back on to normal, and expect there not to be a cost.

    The most hypocritical side of this is that the same people that demanded the economy be shut down are now leading the charge of the “look at how bad this economy is!”.

    If you don’t understand the cost/benefit analysis of the decisions that were made, then you should sit this part out and let the adults handle it.

  13. 3b says:

    And everyone loved NYPD/FDNY after 9/11. Those cops that died that day made the ultimate sacrifice. There was no white/black. We were all Americans, and they went into those buildings to rescue Americans regardless of skin color. 19 years later we are told we are a country of systemic racism, top to bottom. And on the other side we have the corporate overlords who continue to enrich themselves, at the expense of the country as a whole. We are going backwards not forward. I truly despise what the left and right has done to this country.

  14. Juice Box says:

    3b – WSJ opinion piece yesterday comparing the Islamists to the “woke” people.


  15. No One says:

    I had come in via PATH and WTC early that morning for an international phone meeting. My office was 90 West St. across the St. and windows looking out to WTC.
    It happened when I was on the call, I told the person I think there was an explosion, and noted I saw things on fire falling down past my window. Couldn’t see the top of WTC from my floor. Got off the call, turned on the TV and saw the building on fire. The building told us not to evacuate yet, they were clearing the sidewalks. After waiting a good bit, the building asked people to leave the building and to use elevators. Got in a crowded elevator, and while going down, there was another boom and our elevator stopped dead. Waited in there for what felt like an eternity, but then management opened the door from the outside on the ground floor. Somehow we were already there.
    Got out and they told us to walk south to the Bowling Green area, where there’s a plaza. The streets and sidewalk had pieces of airplane, pieces of people, lots of papers to step over on the way there. Once there I saw a bunch of people looking up at a burning building that still looked dangerously close to me. And there was no way back to NJ waiting around there. I wanted to get out of there as it seemed pretty dangerous to stand around a burning building with a lot of people. So I first walked as far east as I could, then started walking north. I was going to NYU at night for my MBA back then, so thought I would try the 14th street Path station as another route back to NJ. The Path was packed, and right after I made it through the turnstiles, there was an announcement that service was suspended. So I went back out to walk toward Penn Station, my next hope of getting back to NJ. Just after exiting, I heard some guy telling his girlfriend that a tower fell, and her telling him “bullsh1t” as if he was joking. I just kept walking and eventually sat for a while at Penn Station in the best weather since the start of that summer, cool and clear. I was on the first Raritan Valley line train out. Some of the people on the train had the concrete dust hair.
    I never got the stuff I left in my office, mostly older CFA material books, because the towers set off a fire in the building. Good thing I left, good thing someone was able to open the elevator door for us. The building guy who opened the door for us died later in the collapse, I heard.
    For many months, hearing sanitation trucks drop their dumpsters would make me jump, because that sounds a lot like what the first impact sounded like.

  16. 3b says:

    Juice: It’s a fair comparison. The left is just as intolerant as the Islamists, and yes you must submit to our way of thinking. If not you are suspect. We saw this in the old Communist regimes. Political re-education camps, death camps. It could just as easily happen here in the future. And the irony of it all is they are the biggest hypocrites.

  17. Juice Box says:

    re: “best weather since the start of that summer, cool and clear”

    Yes it was I will always remember that day. More than a few people I know were in or around the towers. Some lost their lives others barely escaped. A good friend of mine is still not the same after all of these years, he has pics from his office at 101 Barclay Street BONY, taken a few weeks after when they were allowed in to collect some computer equipment, steel girders etc pierced that building.

    My office was building was further north, but a coworker that morning lost her sister. She was never the same, as everyone stood there and watched it all from the office windows.

  18. Fast Eddie says:

    No One,

    Incredible story!

  19. grim says:

    Thanks for sharing that.

  20. Juice Box says:

    Equinix NY4 is where all the magic happens. You can bet the plan is already done for the move. We are in the middle of one with them now in our Virginia data center, they are great at moving equipment from building to building, could do it all very quickly.


  21. BRT says:

    I was a senior in college working in a lab at Rutgers. Was getting Taylor Ham Egg and Cheese and heard it on the radio in the deli. Detoured to drive down the Turnpike where I could see the tower. Took a look at it for maybe 4 or 5 minutes and then drove back to Rutgers. After I got back in the car and started driving away, I was listening to Stern and the 2nd plane hit. I knew one kid working there, he was at the top of the 2nd tower. He ignored instructions and booked it immediately after the first plane hit and made it out.

  22. Libturd says:

    Oh 9/11.

    I remember it like it was yesterday. Not because of the shock of the event, but more so because it’s really in the sweet spot of my long-term memory. As major news events go in New York City, this one ranked number one on my top three, which also included the blackout of 2003 and the market crash and Great Recession of 2007.

    As most of you already know, I worked on the 10th floor of a twelve floor building on the corner of Houston and Varick. I am fortunate that my office window faced northward over the Village where I had a clear view all of the way to midtown since our building is the last building over four floors in height when heading northwards to midtown until you got up to the streets numbered in the mid teens. On foggy days, when the conditions were just right, the only thing I could see out of my window was the tops of the Chrysler and Empire State buildings.

    On the morning of 9/11, I recall one of my coworkers who just arrived in from his morning commute saying, “Did you hear that? I just heard a very large plane flying way too low!” Then about a minute later, news came in from the other side of the building that a plane flew into the World Trade Center. Quickly, the radio was turned on, and the initial reports was that of a small plane, perhaps private, had flown into one of the Twin Towers. I immediately headed up the two floors to the roof of our building (where I was frequently known to go to get some polluted air) to see the damage and it was completely clear that this was no small plane. The imprint of a large plane was as clear as that September afternoon. The wingspan stretched nearly the full width of the tower and you could see flames licking the silhouette the plane had made. You could also see lots of paper in the air and for the first time in my life, I witnessed a jumper. Then another and another within a two-minute span. I could only imagine how horrible it must have been on the crash floors or on the floors above it for people to have opted to jump. Two of them jumped with their briefcases clearly in hand. Surely, so they could be more easily identified when they were reduced to a biological puddle of muck when they hit the pavement 1,000 feet below. I had seen enough for now. I went back downstairs to report to my team of eight (on first shift) what I had saw and requested they not head upstairs and instead focus on the huge pile of work that was coming due as we were at the tail end of our Fall SEC peak. If we were able to focus, I told them that we should be done by around noon and we’ll take the proper time then to discuss what we were witnessing or you could head home.

    At this point, a very astute worker of mine and pretty well read fanatic of US foreign affairs, said that it had to be Bin Laden. Simultaneously, while the world was calling it a potential accident, I knew there was absolutely zero possibility of this being an accident. That silhouette of the planes wings and tail fin perfectly centered on the building with just the slightest angle, proved, this was no accident. Though, it would have been very difficult to fly a large jet at a slow speed with this precision; it would have been infinitely easier for a pilot to have avoided the WTC regardless of mechanical failure. The fact the weather was so clear and still that day, made it even less likely to have been an accident.

    With the team focused on our work, someone mentioned that the second tower had been hit much like the first. Suddenly, the office started to believe my coworker and me about the fact this was no accident.

    I was lucky enough to have a small TV in my office which I received as a gift from Continental Airlines for being such a frequent flyer. The screen was about 3 inches from corner to corner, but was color. I swear, about 75 of us were huddled around this tiny TV making sure we were not under attack. I recall some moronic newscaster saying flames and smoke were reported just south of Newark Airport. I quickly figured they were talking about the refineries and cogen plant in Iselin. As soon as the news mentioned that there were only 2 or 3 more planes currently being hijacked and nowhere in the area, I got my team back to work again and headed back to the roof to see the damage of tower two.

    This was a terrible decision. Nearly the moment I looked south, the 1st tower crumbled and the formerly clear blue sky transformed into a hazy cloud of ash and dust. Though it was certain there were hundreds of deaths from the plane crashes. The tower collapsing represented a huge increase in fatalities. Looking through the haze at the second tower, it was clear that it too would most likely collapse.

    Since we serviced Wall Street since before the cell phone era, we had lots of telephone closets. We opened them up to the ash people (which is what we called them) as well as gave out bottle of water. Sadly, I don’t think we saw more than about a couple dozen survivors the entire day.

    As we completed our work I began letting workers head home. Of course, they had already terminated most commuting services. Gator, who worked in midtown, headed to the ferry in the 40s around noon. With the bridges and tunnels closed as well as Penn, Grand Central and most of the MTA, the queue to get on the ferry was already estimated at 4 hours. I figured it would be closer to 8 hours by the time I would leave in the late afternoon. Many of my workers who lived in NJ took a car service all the up to the GWB and walked across where they then either caught a bus or a ride home from Ft. Lee. By the time I left around 3pm, no cabs were to be found. I walked up to midtown and heard from the diaspora of workers from all over downtown walking with me that Penn Station was going to reopen soon. I recall looking back downtown periodically as we all walked up the West Side Highway (was closed to cars and for good reason as it was packed with walkers) at the smoking heap that was formerly the Twin Towers. I recalled hanging out on the 103rd floor with my best friend at his dad’s office when I was a little kid (during the 70s). I recalled my many visits up to the observation deck on floor 107, over the years. It was all very surreal.

    I headed over to the Molly Wee on 8th Avenue to wait for the trains to start running, where I bought drinks for a bunch of firemen from downtown drinking their memories of this horrific day away. About two hours later, trains started running again and I was back in regal Montclair by about 7pm. Gator, who had headed over to the ferry line around noon, got home around 6pm. She was not happy about both my shorter commute and slight inebriation.

    To this day, that burning plane silhouette as well as the surreal march to midtown with so many other stranded downtown workers is what sticks in my head. I never had any nightmares, nor do I ever panic in life-or-death situations. I was commended by our customer service teams later in the week for keeping everyone focused on our work. Though, one worker of mine, a flaming liberal, was mad that I was focused on meeting deadlines when we should have been memorializing and discussing the event. I fired that guy a few years later when he became truly obsessed with politics.

  23. Fast Eddie says:

    I had trouble getting through this whole video…


  24. Libturd says:

    “If you don’t understand the cost/benefit analysis of the decisions that were made, then you should sit this part out and let the adults handle it.”

    You are playing politics again Home. I said we should close our borders from day one. I also predicted 200K dead very early on as you all scoffed at my estimate. This whole thing could have been kept under much better control and at a much lower cost if our leaders had the will to do so. They did not. It’s 6 months later and we are nowhere closer to the end as many economies around the world are almost completely back to normal. And this is not a partisan complaint. The Congress is just as guilty as the worst president ever is. Both put politics over common sense. We needed to restrict mobility. Instead we politicised masks and made believe there were miracle solutions. 200K dead later (and we are very lucky our fatality rates are so low or it would have been much, much worse) and events like Sturgis and political rallies in Tuscon are still as commonplace as teens hanging out at bars at the shore. We are the dumbest country in the world. Not because we behaved like children, but because we left it in the hands of the adults. Enough with the narratives already. Everyone’s mind is already made up here. If you want your comments to have some impact, go make them on some random article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

  25. ExEssex says:

    The Trump administration has been accused of siphoning almost $4m from a program that treats New York firefighters and medics suffering from 9/11 related illnesses.

    The Treasury Department stopped payments almost four years ago to the FDNY World Trade Centre Health Program, according to reporting by The Daily News.

    Payments to the program were authorised by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, but the Treasury began to keep some of the money.

    Dr David Prezant, the program’s director and FDNY’s chief medical officer, told the publication that there has been no official explanation as to why the payments were stopped and no notification that it was going to happen.

    He told The Daily News that approximately half a million dollars a year was missing in 2016 and 2017. That figure increased to about $630,000 in 2018 and 2018, and the in 2020 $1.447m was diverted away from the program by late August.

    “Here we have sick World Trade Centre-exposed firefighters and EMS workers, at a time when the city is having difficult financial circumstances due to Covid-19, and we’re not getting the money we need to be able to treat these heroes,” said Dr Prezant.

    Long Island Republican congressman Peter King took up the case and received a partial explanation — that another agency in the city was in an unrelated feud with the federal government over Medicare bills.

    Why the FDNY program is suffering as a consequence of that remains a mystery.

    Representative King described the circumstances as disgraceful.

    “I don’t even care what the details of this thing is. That fund has to be fully compensated, fully reimbursed. I mean, this is absurd,” he said.

    “If anyone were true American heroes, it was the cops and firemen on 9/11, especially the firemen, and for even $1 to be being held back is absolutely indefensible.”

  26. leftwing says:

    “Now to hear some complain that we are running a deficit or had to artificially stimulate the economy and judge those actions as foolish. Well, that tells me that the person holding those beliefs is not a very bright person.”

    I do agree that any discussion of federal deficits resulting from the pandemic, especially when the WH (rightly or wrongly) was the strongest proponent of keeping economies open, is intellectually dishonest at best. Not to mention just yesterday the Red team got shut down along party lines because their proposed new stimulus of ‘only’ $300B fell far short of team Blue’s demanded $3 TRILLION…….

    Cut him a break though, he’s more than quite bright, but occasionally he falls off the wagon and goes on TDS bender….likely on one now given the content and the need to post it twice….

  27. leftwing says:

    No One and Lib, moving 9/11 experiences. Thanks for sharing.

  28. homeboken says:

    NY area CEO’s tell DeBlasio – You want our workers back in NYC everyday, get to work on cleaning up the city.

    Anyone think Billy D cares one iota? These are horrible greedy capitalists afterall…


  29. BoomerRemover says:

    Watched from a stopped D (B?) train on the Manhattan Bridge. I saw the second plane hit, someone yelled to get this train off the bridge. Minutes later, the train rumbled into Grand Street and announced last stop. Walked to my campus, walked to work after (very confused) and then eventually walked home to Brooklyn where I was picked up in Park Slope. A lot of walking that day.

    I remember a giant orange fireball engulfing the tower and bright white office papers and glass raining down, shimmering in the bright sunlight.

    I dated a girl from Brighton Beach at the time and remember walking on the beach with her (days later?) and a charred transaction confirmation sheet on Solomon Smith Barney letterhead landed at my feet.

  30. ExEssex says:

    The Towers coming was a pivotal moment in my own life. I was home doing yoga that morning when the news came across Bloomberg News. I called my dad, cracked a beer and thought….Holy Crap. This is it. And in many ways it was. Prior to that time I had the privilege of working in a very hot start-up that was at that time the single largest commercial tenant in the Woolworth Bldg. I have wonderful memories of coming across the water on those ferries dressed to the nines, ready to meet with a host of C level folks that streamed through our offices looking for guidance in the newly nascent internet. It was great to be there and I kept my head. I didn’t spend or borrow against anything because i was locked up. Good thing too. The crash took it all. Spring came and we along with hundreds of other firms big and small saw our valuations decimated. I took one more job in the private tech sector and brought them beacoup business that they had for years after I left, but my heart just wasn’t in it. I became a teacher shortly after that. Change is good sometimes. It’s been a wild ride.

  31. 3b says:

    The uber Liberals from the upper west side forced De Blasio to move the homeless and mental patients out of local hotels, as it was impacting their quality of life and they were afraid. Oh the irony!!

  32. Hold my beer says:

    Thanks No One

  33. homeboken says:

    In other news, some orange racist in Washington was nominated for a second noble peace prize today.

  34. crushednjmillenial says:

    In high school, watched it all unfold on TV in a classroom of 30 students stunned silent. Pin drop quiet except for the gasps when the second plane hit, the first tower fell, and then the second. In the hallways between classes, girls crying about some parent or uncle or neighbor that worked downtown. Long bus ride home in slammed traffic. Watched the smoke plume by myself that afternoon from a place in my town that I could see downtown – it filled the sky and was tall and huge compared to its source. I do not generally get too affected by news television describing the horrible things that happen each day, but 9/11 coverage can frankly make me emotional even all these years later. From watching the news coverage and the 8:46 moment of silence with breakfast this morning, I found that 9/11 is still upsetting to me like few other things I could imagine.

  35. 3b says:

    Home: Racists on both sides, just Liberals bigger hypocrites as many proclaim they are not, makes them worse in my minds as opposed to the ones who don’t deny it.

  36. Juice Box says:

    2nd noble peace prize nomination? Seems like those Europeans did not get message stop messing with our election and Oransje Mann dårlig in Norwegian and Orange Man dåligt in Swedish.

  37. Libturd says:

    Home, I thought it was funny when Obama received it, especially as king of the drones. I really didn’t even know he was nominated for it. On the other hand, Trump would probably let you know if he got a good prize in a Cracker Jack box. Let’s see if he is actually given that useless piece of sh1t anyway. When I heard he was nominated, I looked up who he was up against. About 400 others at last count.

  38. Bystander says:


    No need to even go into pandemic. Deficit went over $1 trillion before it hit. Trump was handed a great stock market, very low unemployment and healing GDP. He simply spent more than any prez, outside a world war for vanity purposes. Traitor Oz Powell provided cover to keep underlying economy going with stealth QE and ridiculous rate cuts. We should be practicing fiscal restraint after 2008 bailout. There was no need to push deficit into further extremes but he did it to score “huge ratings” so red hat dolts could point to even greater stocks highs and lower unemployment (pushing on a rope BS). A real stable genius. The GDP shows the truth. He never pushed it any higher than Obama did, if that is the standard. I don’t think prez comparisons are fair as different times and circumstances..but mushroom followers are so obssessed with being better than Obama. Just more lies for Orange clown followers, projecting his bullshit. Boken BS about Pompeo stopping wars when his side, Bushy Jr, Dad, Cheney and started the conflicts to profit. You can make this delusion up, really.

  39. Libturd says:

    It’s all narratives all of the time. Law & Order one day. Scouting the law the next day. The worst part is talking with my dad. He knows every talking point. It’s like a party of Fox News parrots.

  40. Libturd says:

    Interesting. This just in from our HR department. They must not have gotten the memo about everything Trump is doing is the work of saints and angels.

    After a thorough review of IRS and Treasury Department guidance, Libturd Corp. has made the decision to opt-out of the employee payroll tax deferment option. The decision was made after consulting with HR, tax and legal experts and hearing directly from employees.

    It is important to share that the program is only a deferral of taxes and not a waiver or forgiveness of taxes owed. Employees are required to fully repay any 2020 deferred taxes beginning January 1, 2021. Repayments would require a double payroll tax deduction to be withheld until fully repaid (any amounts owing beyond April 30, 2021 are subject to penalties and interest).

    Currently we believe it is in the employee’s best interest to continue withholding and remitting Social Security payroll taxes on the normal schedule. We will continue to monitor this program closely, especially if future developments occur.

  41. Phoenix says:

    Let me tell you what I wish I’d known
    When I was young and dreamed of glory
    You have no control
    Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

    And when you’re gone, who remembers your name?
    Who keeps your flame?
    Who tells your story?
    Who tells your story?
    Who tells your story?

  42. Phoenix says:

    What I never understood about 9/11 was how the amount of assistance to the victims was tied to their income.

  43. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix he wrote a book about it a few years back. I am not certain but it might be required reading now for Law School.


  44. Fast Eddie says:

    Trump was handed a great stock market, very low unemployment and healing GDP.

    All benchmarks that focus on the better educated, better informed and highly productive masses. Oblamy let the lesser masses twist in the wind. There were 34 million Americans on food stamps when Oblah blah took office. There were 44 million on food stamps the day he left. Again, nothing but symbolism. Hope and Change! Yes We Can!

  45. libturdio says:

    As he cut taxes on the wealthy. It was the biggest waste of a trillion ever.

  46. ExEssex says:

    I think on this day we all need to remember that we love this Country.

  47. Happy Renter says:

    Watched the towers burn from 6th Ave. and 14th street; watched them fall from my office on Union Square. My wife was underground in the WTC PATH / subway tunnels.

    Diversity is our greatest strength!

    War is Peace!

    Freedom is Slavery!

    Importing more Muslims in the 20 years after 9/11 than we did in the 20 years before 9/11 is a good thing!

    Invade the world, invite the world!

    Thank God we are ruled by such wise, benevolent men and not traitorous snakes.

  48. ExEssex says:

    “Saudi Arabia is your friend”.

    Who remembers those radio spots right after 9/11?

  49. homeboken says:

    Sounds like everyone here agrees that if you put 100 career politicians name in a bowl and pick one out, 99 times you are going to get some corrupt, self-serving, a-hole that would never survive a month in the private sector.

    So the answer – Let’s vote in a guy that has been in government for 47 years. That’s a level of thinking that I will never understand.

  50. ExEssex says:

    Our Country is not a family business.

    Veterans who die are not losers & suckers.

    Etc etc

  51. 3b says:

    Home: You nailed it. I understand the anybody but Trump rationale, but the fact that Democrats including those on this blog won’t acknowledge that at best Biden is a weak candidate. Yet somehow we are to believe that if he is elected all will be right again.

  52. ExEssex says:

    We’ll be a long way from alright.
    Have you seen the numbers?

  53. ExEssex says:

    In an op-ed published on Thursday in the New York Times, Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz and his Roosevelt Institute colleague Kitty Richards argue that rather than wait for Congress to provide financial aid to deal with the economic consequences of the coronavirus pandemic, state and local governments should increase taxes on “their wealthiest residents” to “bolster their local economies” and meet pressing needs or else Americans will be forced to suffer an “unacceptable alternative” characterized by socially-damaging austerity and a long-lasting recession.

    Richards and Stiglitz make the case that “the economic impact of the pandemic is daunting, and it would be better for the federal government to step in.” According to the pair of economists, the federal government—unencumbered by balanced budget rules hampering many states—”could solve the problem tomorrow by providing fiscal relief to states and localities, like the $1 trillion provided by the HEROES Act that passed the House in May” before languishing on Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s (R-Ky.) desk.

    Nevertheless, people across the U.S. are “living through a catastrophe” and need assistance right now, the economists write. They “cannot afford for their state and local leaders to abdicate responsibility.”

  54. Bystander says:

    Almost like something happened in 2009 FY that put people out of work and on food stomps. Anyone guess? A real mystery.

    Fact Ed, on Jan 2019 , there were nearly 41m on Food Stamps then suddenly down to 37M when they recooked the numbers in Mar 2019. See below for explanation from SNAP. Let’s see numbers in 2020. We can all play blame game.

    2. Due to the partial Federal government shutdown, most of the February 2019 SNAP benefits were issued early in the month of January 2019. This was done to ensure SNAP recipients would receive their February 2019 benefits in a timely manner. As a result, January 2019’s benefits will show a significant increase over the previous month and February 2019’s benefits will show significantly less than January 2019.

  55. Bystander says:

    On all on the “change agents” on right would have voted for Bernie instead of Trump of those damn Dems just put him on ticket…right. What a laugh. Sounds nice, but few would have followed through.

  56. 3b says:

    Bystander: Well count me as one of the few who would have voted for Bernie , or Warren in both elections. And yes I believe many who voted for Trump would have voted for Bernie. They had nothing left to loose. Instead of scoffing at they would have voted for Bernie, ask yourself why the DNC did everything to ensure he would never get the nomination. And ask yourself this time why Warren was not picked as VP. Democrats like the Republicans bought and paid for.

  57. homeboken says:

    The DC professional class (DNC and GOP) hates Bernie only slightly less than they hate Trump. At the core, the antifa crowd and the MAGA crowd both want to dismantle the system. They have very different agenda’s after that but both want to end the ruling class mentality of DC.

    The DNC can’t afford another 4 years of a POTUS that isn’t under their control. They need an obedient lap dog that won’t desire to actually be the leader of the free world, in more than name only.

    Trump is an outsider. Bernie, for all his years in government, is still a wild-card that they can’t control. Just realize, voting for Joe is voting for the very same thing you all claim to despise about DC. If you are cool with that, congrats. You are a better mental gymnast than I.

  58. Bystander says:

    Warren was over when she checked Indian box and caught, but as fem candidate it was worth a shot. Bern was a social*st with no chance in prez election. They would have called him Grandpa Che and every other name. The right undersood these things, nothing more. Unelectable

  59. Bystander says:

    I’m sure that works for you, Boken..but nahh, he is a narcissistic mental midget who runs the government like The Apprentice. I’m all for change but don’t claim it comes from from burnt Orange fool who paid politicians to get casinos and building built. The problem is that he only knows capitalist power when the other side has much to financially gain so the reason to deal is far greater. Bully tactics don’t work. I’ve always hated the guy..always, like since I was a kid bc my Dad would stop in on trips to Wildwood. I never watched the apprentice (pure garbage), my ex even gave me Trump cufflinks back in 2004 and I promptly threw them in trash. This is the only thing Trump that entertained me. Miss you Phil


  60. Bystander says:

    Grim, mod please

  61. Bystander says:

    The only thing funny Trump..miss you Phil


  62. Juice Box says:

    3B – phone calls going out now they want everyone back from the beach, summer is over.

    I told my better half to demand car service and a huge raise to pay for the Nanny. I see it’s easy to find one from Nordic countries, and my wife is Swedish so the kids might as well learn their heritage.

    I figure the partners think they are going to lose out on their property investments in Manhattan and want the city back to normal. Another thing is the tax abatement deals they all have on their buildings from the city and state require taxpaying workers to show up. I could easily see the city and state lawyers put the screws to them for that as those deals are $$$.

  63. 3b says:

    Juice: Not surprised some are going back. One spike and they will all be at home again. We are not going back any time soon, and when we do it’s no more than twice a week. Window dressing for some companies as they figure out how to dump lots of excess real estate. And for the people going back, I suspect it will be in to the office and out, no hanging around after hours. However it finally plays out commercial real estate will never be what it was, and they have zero power now, as most companies have proven their employees can do the job from home. Commercial real estate simply can’t compete with that.

  64. 3b says:

    Bystander: I disagree. Bernie could have been elected, the young people were behind him, right or wrong. Make no mistake there will be more Bernie’s down the line, and instead of some serious reforms, they will tear the system down.

  65. homeboken says:

    Trump just announced, via Twitter, that when he wins he will forgive all deferred payroll taxes.

    I said this two days ago in this board. These maneuvers are obvious if you pay attention.

  66. BRT says:

    So, I hit the beach up later today. It was dead…but the shore restaurant scene was poppin!

  67. chicagofinance says:


    Phoenix says:
    September 11, 2020 at 2:48 pm
    Let me tell you what I wish I’d known
    When I was young and dreamed of glory
    You have no control
    Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

    And when you’re gone, who remembers your name?
    Who keeps your flame?
    Who tells your story?
    Who tells your story?
    Who tells your story?

  68. chicagofinance says:


    When houses are burning down, electric cars and solar panels don’t seem much of an answer.

    By Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.

    Wow. Overnight, apparently there’s nobody who does not understand that climate policy is not an answer to California’s wildfire crisis.

    Even the do-gooder, nonprofit news group ProPublica plaintively asks in a headline, “They Know How to Prevent Megafires. Why Won’t Anybody Listen?” The article goes on to assert: “The pattern is a form of insanity: We keep doing overzealous fire suppression across California landscapes where the fire poses little risk to people and structures. As a result, wildland fuels keep building up.”

    I guess when thousands of people might be burned out of their homes, it concentrates the mind.

    But then why was California Gov. Gavin Newsom’s most quoted response to the fires “Never have I felt more of a sense of obligation . . . to face climate change head on”?

    Confusion abounds. One admirable New York Times article makes clear the immediate answer does not lie in climate policy: “Millions of Americans are moving into wildfire-prone areas outside of cities, and communities often resist restrictions on development. A century of federal policy to aggressively extinguish all wildfires rather than letting some burn at low levels, an approach now seen as misguided, has left forests with plenty of fuel for especially destructive blazes.”

    But another Times article on the same day insists that “the mechanism driving the wildfire crisis is straightforward: Human behavior, chiefly the burning of fossil fuels like coal and oil.”

    Such sentences are a counsel purely of despair. People who take an interest in global warming can only conclude fires are unstoppable and must be endured as a result of our accumulated planet sins.

    I promise no long foray into social psychology, but take the most textbook finding of behavioral economics: “prospect theory,” or the observed tendency of human beings irrationally to overvalue a bird in the hand vs. multiple birds in the bush.

    This discovery really tells us that people, in their mind’s eye, overweight a potential loss against a potential gain because the loss might be visible to others. Human beings are intensely social creatures even in the ways they systematically misconstrue their own interests. This is also why it’s such an enormous, heavy lift to get past virtue-signaling before we can speak rationally about key matters. We have to spend 20 minutes talking about climate change before we can spend one minute talking about policies that would actually affect wildfires.

    But, as I say, their houses burning down are an incentive for people to grow up.

    A bit of history: It’s been nearly 32 years since climate change became a mainstream political cause—I date the beginning to then-NASA scientist James Hansen’s public fight with the first Bush White House in 1989. In the decades that followed, as nature dictates, climate politics became institutionalized. Institutionalized means interest groups and business lobbies becoming self-sustaining based on the money that climate fears generate. A cynic might note that during this time the world’s greenhouse emissions rose more steeply than ever. Problems that become institutionalized aren’t solved. They become a multigenerational meal ticket by not being solved.

    And yet 32 years have taught us a few things. It was always implausible that the world’s politicians and electorates would require their economies to forgo the advantages of fossil fuels and so it has proved. But we also have discovered a lot about the likely track of future emissions. The world seems to be adhering to RCP 4.5, the second-lowest of the CO2 scenarios sketched by scientists. And not because of penny-ante handouts to solar panels and electric cars, but because of very large social and economic megatrends: urbanization, slower population growth, a shift to service- and digitally-based economies, advancing technology and a declining energy intensity of GDP. One example: Fracking led to a multiyear decline in U.S. greenhouse gas output. Last year, before the pandemic hit, global emissions would have been flat if not for China’s.

    Though this column has frequently mentioned the virtues of a carbon tax, nothing is more important for climate change than making sure this socioeconomic progress continues.

    Progress in politics is harder to come by, but I can point to some. In the past 24 months, it likely has become impossible for government and private agencies to continue peddling dire climate forecasts, as they have in recent years, based on an unrealistic, worst-case RCP 8.5 emissions scenario.

    A surprising thing has happened: Even greens have become embarrassed at the institutionalized dishonesty of such forecasts. (I cited a significant example in a column here in January.)

    If we can start being rational about fire-suppression policy, we can start being rational about climate change too.

  69. ExEssex says:

    A popular website for posts about the conspiracy group QAnon abruptly shut down after a fact-checking group identified the developer as a New Jersey man.

    Qmap.pub is among the largest websites promoting the QAnon conspiracy, with over 10 million visitors in July, according to web analytics firm SimilarWeb Ltd., and served as the primary archive of QAnon’s posts. The website aggregates posts by Q, the anonymous figure behind the QAnon theory, and the creator of the Qmap.pub website is known online only as “QAppAnon.”

    The fact-checking site Logically.ai identified Jason Gelinas of New Jersey on Sept. 10 as the “developer and mouthpiece” for the site. New Jersey state records connect QAppAnon to Gelinas’s home address, Bloomberg found.

  70. grim says:

    Pushing development into fire zones is like building residential in flood zones.


    Fire is a natural part of the climate and ecosystem, try to change that, and this is what happens.

    Want to stop the fires? Clear cut all the forests and pave it all. That’s what worked out here.

    The solution is to manage it the way the people who were there before us managed it. To let it burn, and make it burn, regularly. Otherwise, we better start clear cutting massive fire breaks.

    No shock that the West Coast wants to blame the rest of the world for this. Decades of their own mismanagement.

  71. BRT says:

    The other part of the problem is that the firemen are so efficient at putting out fires over years or even decades that small areas are prevented from burning which would create a natural containment system. The result is a gigantic pile of flammable brush. In the county park by me, they did prescribed burning all throughout the park. One person told me in other states, when a tree falls in public land, you can go in there and take care of it yourself for the wood. In certain states, that’s illegal. I always wondered why some states have the cleanest forests and we have a trainwreck of downed trees everywhere.

  72. No One says:

    Similarly, the media and California politicians blame their power shortages on climate change rather than decades of policies that punish cheap and reliable power sources, and encourage more expensive, less reliable “green” power supplies. Any journalist that fails to report this context is a propagandist.

  73. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    In the current decade where we achieved energy independence, there was no excuse to have any power issues.

  74. ExEssex says:

    cAliFornIa sHouLd rAkE thEir fOrEsts

  75. SmallGovConservative says:

    No One says:
    September 12, 2020 at 8:58 am
    “…media and politicians blame their power shortages on climate change rather than decades of policies that punish cheap and reliable power sources…”

    I brought this up a week or so ago and the #1 Dem apologist FlabMax chimed-in and blamed deregulation and the greedy utilities. Of course he neglected to mention the Cal Pub Util Comm, whose own website describes their responsibility: “…regulates services and utilities…and assures Californians’ access to safe and reliable utility infrastructure and services”. Look at some of the unqualified dingbats on this regulatory commission and it’s no wonder Cali doesn’t have reliable power…

    Marybel Batjer – named President of CPUC by Governor Gavin Newsom…led the implementation of key initiatives to green state government and promote renewable energy.

    Martha Guzman Aceves – …served as deputy legislative affairs secretary in the Office of the Governor since 2011…was sustainable communities program director for the California Rural Legal Assistance Foundation… worked with Swanton Berry Farm on human resources issues…was legislative coordinator for United Farm Workers…”

    Genevieve Shiroma – Prior to joining the CPUC, Commissioner Shiroma served as a member of the Agricultural Labor Relations Board since 1999…

    Clifford Rechtschaffen – …his key areas of interest include decarbonization, safety, environmental justice, and enforcement.

  76. Juice box says:

    Politicians cite climate change as a way to absolve them of responsibility for ideological or incompetent decisions that help create or perpetuate conditions that spawn these fires, and the electricity issue is just silly allow more power plants to be built or stop having children, it’s that simple.

  77. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Rogue, like most recycling companies, had been sending plastic trash to China, but when China shut its doors two years ago, Leebrick scoured the U.S. for buyers. She could find only someone who wanted white milk jugs. She sends the soda bottles to the state.
    But when Leebrick tried to tell people the truth about burying all the other plastic, she says people didn’t want to hear it.
    “I remember the first meeting where I actually told a city council that it was costing more to recycle than it was to dispose of the same material as garbage,” she says, “and it was like heresy had been spoken in the room: You’re lying. This is gold. We take the time to clean it, take the labels off, separate it and put it here. It’s gold. This is valuable.”
    But it’s not valuable, and it never has been. And what’s more, the makers of plastic — the nation’s largest oil and gas companies — have known this all along, even as they spent millions of dollars telling the American public the opposite.
    NPR and PBS Frontline spent months digging into internal industry documents and interviewing top former officials. We found that the industry sold the public on an idea it knew wouldn’t work — that the majority of plastic could be, and would be, recycled — all while making billions of dollars selling the world new plastic.
    The industry’s awareness that recycling wouldn’t keep plastic out of landfills and the environment dates to the program’s earliest days, we found. “There is serious doubt that [recycling plastic] can ever be made viable on an economic basis,” one industry insider wrote in a 1974 speech.
    Yet the industry spent millions telling people to recycle, because, as one former top industry insider told NPR, selling recycling sold plastic, even if it wasn’t true.
    “If the public thinks that recycling is working, then they are not going to be as concerned about the environment,” Larry Thomas, former president of the Society of the Plastics Industry, known today as the Plastics Industry Association and one of the industry’s most powerful trade groups in Washington, D.C., told NPR.

  78. juice box says:

    Hummm Bernie handicapping Biden in this race.

  79. Phoenix says:

    Quarter round. Funny.
    But it probably is fine. Unless you are of the Grey Poupon type.

    They are still experimental cars with only wealthy purchasers that have so much money Tesla can’t keep up with the demand.

    The rest of us working stiffs have to save 2 years to by a Camry.

  80. Phoenix says:

    Libturd has the right idea.
    Put on the parachute now and be prepared to jump out of the burning South Tower.

    Like a piece of rotting fruit America is going to implode.

  81. Libturd says:

    I promise all of you a nice free vacation spot when I move down. We can all laugh at US politics over a state brewed beer.

  82. Juice Box says:

    Musk is no fool he is shifting production to Shanghai.

    “Tesla Inc. plans to ship cars made at its Shanghai factory to other countries in Asia and Europe, according to people familiar with the matter, shifting its strategy for the plant to largely focus on supplying the local market.

    China-built Model 3s for delivery outside the country likely will start mass production in the fourth quarter, the people said, asking not to be identified because the details are private. They said the markets targeted include Singapore, Australia and New Zealand, as well as Europe. Shipments could start as soon as the end of this year or early 2021, according to the people.

    The move is a turnabout from the plan Elon Musk communicated when Tesla broke ground and was constructing the Shanghai factory in 2019. The chief executive officer said then that the facility would only make lower-priced versions of the Model 3 sedan and Model Y crossover for the Greater China region, and predicted there would be enough local demand to potentially necessitate several factories in the country.”


  83. ExEssex says:

    America will be fine.
    Once a grownup is in charge.

  84. BRT says:

    What do you expect for 55k? Machined OEM parts?

    One time the dealership broke the housing on my air filter and repaired it with nuts and bolts. Didn’t realize until about a month out. I bought a new housing and put it on myself but when I removed it, I found a dehydrated slice of pizza below it.

  85. Grim says:

    Maybe California should blame LA, San Fran, Long Beach, San Jose, San Diego for using all the water and turning the state into a desert?

  86. 3b says:

    Ex Essex: Fine?? Seriously?

  87. Hold my beer says:


    I remember a couple of years ago at the height of the California drought an article about the tens of millions LA was spending studying how to more quickly move rainwater into the ocean. Why not learn how to capture and store it safely instead.

  88. Bystander says:

    I spent 3 hours driving all over my CT town. Beautiful day. 4 years ago, I was absolutely shocked at Trump signs all around town. Today? Not one…seriously. Take it for what it’s worth but people are scared or embarrassed now.

  89. Grim says:

    Drove though Warwick NY, all Trump signs, not a single Biden sign to be seen.

  90. Hold my beer says:

    In New York once you are in a non college town more than 50 miles away from NYC you might as well be in Alabama

  91. leftwing says:

    “As he cut taxes on the wealthy. It was the biggest waste of a trillion ever.”

    So I expect you will be lobbying Menendez, Booker, and your congressman to have them delete the removal of SALT limitations in the Dems COVID bill…. ;)

    Big tax cut for the wealthy with zero to do with COVID and one of the provisions holding up passage…

  92. Fast Eddie says:

    I saw three pickup trucks today with the American flag flying along side a Trump banner. I have seen a total of two O’Biden lawn signs for weeks now. Besides Minnesota, Trump might just Take NJ and NY, too!

  93. No One says:

    Drive through Camden and Newark. You might not see Biden signs but they will vote for him in bulk.

  94. Bystander says:

    Warwick 6k, My Town 60k..

  95. Bystander says:

    Hey, here is the guy you will be voting for, from sister and former federal judge

    In the recordings, Barry said of her brother: “All he wants to do is appeal to his base. He has no principles. None. None. … His goddamned tweeting and lying, oh my God. I’m talking too freely, but you know. The change of stories. The lack of preparation. The lying. Holy shit.” She added that her brother does not read and had someone take the college entrance exam in his place. She said, “It’s the phoniness of it all. It’s the phoniness and this cruelty. Donald is cruel. In the recordings, Barry also criticized the Trump administration family separation policy and previous bankruptcies of Trump’s businesses, adding, “You can’t trust him”

  96. Fabius Maximus says:

    Small, Never said it, so I think you need to roll tape on this one.
    #1 Dem apologist FlabMax chimed-in and blamed deregulation and the greedy utilities.

    In fact I don’t recall deregulation ever being discussed in here. Are you covering too many Blogs on the troll factory graveyard shift and getting your blogs and posters confused. ?

  97. ExEssex says:

    8:37 yOu tHink sO …….!??!

  98. JCer says:

    Bystander, my take on it is there is not really much enthusiasm for either. Besides the hardcore never trumpers and the trump freaks no one else really sees either of these guys as something to be excited about. There are fewer Trump signs and Biden signs than one would expect.

  99. ExEssex says:

    Betcha Biden rolls Trump hard.

    The Dems may even take the Senate.

  100. homeboken says:

    I don’t know about other states, haven’t been able to travel like normal. Buy here in Morris County, I have seen hundreds of Trump signs, hell anyone see the parsippany rally? When is Bidens rally scheduled? Or are all his supporters busy burning down Kenosha?

  101. homeboken says:

    Trump in a speech yesterday in AZ –

    “….some of the people I’m talking about, horrible people really, New York real estate developers, you don’t get more horrible than that….”

    After 20 years of professional experience, I can tell you that phrase is dead on balls accurate.

  102. Juice Box says:

    Is the Subway safe? From Covid-19? Apparently not as Deblasio and Cuomo, the members of government at all level including Senator Chuck Schumer don’t ride it.

    Deblasio does not want to open the city until there is a vaccine, and well he is term limited his next gig is stumping for his wife who is running for office in Brooklyn.

    Day-by-day ridership, it’s ticked up about 5% in the last two months but still way way down.

    Thursday, 9/10/20 1,523,777 -72.3% YoY

    Wednesday, 9/9/20 1,596,868 -70.9% YoY

    Tuesday, 9/8/20 1,551,220 -71.8% YoY

    Then there is the other question of safety as crime has ticked up. Won’t be long before the next generation vigilante appears on the scene. Anyone remember Bernhard Goetz? I see even Curtis Sliwa is making the rounds again, he is running for Mayor of NYC.

  103. Juice Box says:

    Speaking of mass transit for NYC a neighbor of mine works downtown in finance. He won’t even take the ferry, he drives into the city these days.

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