Up Up and Awayyyyy

From CNN:

Goldman Sachs: Home prices to climb another 16% by the end of 2022

Since the pandemic began, demand among homebuyers has far exceeded the supply of available homes, causing real estate prices to skyrocket

But as high as prices are, they have yet to peak, according to a new report from Goldman Sachs. 

The investment bank projects that home prices — already at record highs — will grow another 16% by the end of 2022. Despite price increases of 20% over the past year, the analysts at Goldman Sachs suggest that homes remain “relatively affordable” thanks to historically low mortgage rates. But continued strong demand among buyers and ongoing low inventory will keep pushing prices even higher, according to the report.

Sure, the inventory picture has improved a little since the spring, with more homes for sale and price growth moderating a bit. But Goldman’s analysts say this supply and demand imbalance is expected to continue through next year.

But it is questionable whether demand will remain as strong going forward, given the high prices. About two-thirds, 66%, of respondents to a University of Michigan survey on homebuyer sentiment said this is not a good time to buy a home, according to the report. That’s the highest it has been since the early 1980’s.

But homeowners today remain “‘reluctant bulls’, who still intend to buy despite thinking it’s a bad time,” Goldman’s analysts wrote.

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169 Responses to Up Up and Awayyyyy

  1. BRT says:

    FRIST! Good news, PSATs are today.

  2. Juice Box says:

    T- 1:22 until Captain Kirk’s launch on Blue Origin…

    553 people have reached Earth orbit. 556 have reached the altitude of space according to the FAI definition of the boundary of space, and 562 people have reached the altitude of space according to the American definition. 24 people have traveled beyond low Earth orbit and either circled, orbited, or walked on the Moon.

  3. Juice Box says:

    Listening to the live feed, they have audio of the crew chat. Shatner is telling funny stories it seems to ease the crew.

  4. Grim says:

    Gunna be hell to pay if Bezos kills Shatner.

  5. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    Eddie, I can’t recall watching any previous governors debates but I just watched that one.

    That was a dismantling. I’ don’t know if Murphy didn’t prepare or is always bumbling but he sounded like an idiot. Totally unprepared.

    Taking about gates and dikes when the got into the flood control mitigation. WTF. Real expert. And then he completely conceded when he brought up trump and white supremacy.

    Not that any of it matters. When you have 1M public worker union members on the state they own it.

  6. 3b says:

    And at the Fed level , we have 86 billion to bail out one of the Teamsters Unions. I wonder why?

  7. Fast Eddie says:


    Murphy kept pulling out chapstick, drinking water, smirking, jerking his head and really stumbling. When his back was to the wall (many times), he bleated about Trump, ab0rtion and then finally, the c0nfederate flag. Murphy kept saying, “We need to do this… we need to do that…” and Ciattarelli’s response was, “You asked for this job four years ago…” meaning, where have you been and what have you been doing? Let’s see if the muppets of NJ are bold enough to make a change.

  8. No One says:


    I think UPS paid the union a good bit to be allowed to pull out of the death spiraling Central States Pension plan. Basically left no one to pay the pensions, then the coast was clear for a federal bailout later. Otherwise the feds would have been criticized for pretty much directly bailing out UPS’ obligations.

    Rising inflation would crush virtually all pension plan beneficiaries. In 1970 people thought they were in good financial shape getting $100 per month retirement checks from their pension. A soda cost 5 cents and gasoline 36 cents a gallon back then. By 1980 their $100/mo pension wasn’t worth nearly as much after inflation, and the value of the bonds in their employers’ pension plan had fallen greatly.

    I think the climate change catastrophists could create the new “oil crisis” – through their bans and regulations they could drive up the cost of energy immensely, create energy shortages like we haven’t seen since the early 70s, and thereby drive up the cost of nearly everything.

  9. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    Of course Murphy hiring someone who he knew was accused of raping another member of his campaign staff never came up. But trump was brought up numerous times so Murphy could rattle off his progressive talking points.

  10. leftwing says:

    “Gunna be hell to pay if Bezos kills Shatner.”

    Grab some lotto ticket AMZN puts right now before launch. Although the companies are unrelated she’ll dip if the Cap’n is blown to bits.

  11. Jim says:

    Let’s see if the muppets of NJ are bold enough to make a change.

    We can only hope and pray. The NJEA, PBA, and FOP are extremely hard to overcome. Phil’s increase in taxes is killing our middle class.

    Phil looked like a pure idiot during the debate, I am sure he is glad that there are no more debates….now Phil can destroy Jack with New Direction $$$$.

    NJ taxpayer does not stand a chance .

  12. leftwing says:

    My car was parked in a lot and hit. No dispute as to fault. Have other driver’s info.

    They want to go through insurance. I haven’t done that in about two decades.

    Advice? How does it even work these days? Do I file with my insurance? Theirs?

  13. Libturd says:

    Get a police report, even if the cars have been moved. Call your insurance company top make them aware. When fault is found, you will not process the claim. If the dude is lying, you need backup.

    The rest will be explained by your insurer. Make sure he calls his. Preferably in front of you on speakerphone. If he’s not lying and he’s at fault, he shouldn’t mind.

    Sorry for your luck.

  14. Juice Box says:

    There is only 1 rocket it has flown 14 times and does look a bit worse for wear..

  15. Out of the Ashes goes the Phoenix says:

    Find out if there are any cameras-even someone parked there with a Tesla. Any video could be helpful.

  16. Libturd says:

    As for the debate,

    Murphy’s performance, record, tattered past and choice of breakfast meat are all moot. All any Democrat has to do going forward is link the Republican candidate to the populists. Now the electorate is no longer voting for Murphy. They are voting against populist scapegoating, xenophobia and future insurrections.

    Trump was the greatest president ever, for the Democrats.


  17. Libturd says:


    If you don’t have collision/comprehensive, don’t bother with your own insurance company. They’ll tell you that when you call them.

  18. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    When you have TDS it’s always about trump.

    As for the populism argument, I guess the white suprematist attacks have flopped. I’m having a hard time trying to understand how associating with populism is more a negative unless it’s a euphemism for some other bogey man.

  19. 3b says:

    Lib: Voting against Populist madness or voting against Woke madness? What’s the choice? I know a few hard core Democrats who are becoming more and more concerned with the madness on the left. I was actually shocked to hear him say it.

  20. JCer says:

    On school boards and CRT, somehow that gets federal attention. How many of the Muslims who are threatening that teacher, administration, and school board in Maplewood will be arrested and charged for making terrorist threats? Social media and cancel culture is out of control, the issue is between the parents, teacher and school administration why the terrorists at CAIR and a former olympic fencer are involved is beyond me.

    Fab to respond to the prior thread, why are African American’s still impoverished? Look to the policies you support and espouse. The trajectory of the household income and wealth of black households was vastly improving despite tremendous amounts of racism in the earlier half of the 20th century. Somehow though despite new legal protections and reduced amounts of discrimination led to reduced disposable income and household wealth. It comes down to pushing a victim mentality, welfare and poor housing policies creating centers of poverty, a breakdown of the nuclear family unit, and hostility towards education. Leftist thoughts and policies literally breeds poverty. Broken families, which has no relation to the legacy of slavery, are the cause of so many problems in the lower class. People of color from foreign countries tend to perform much better economically, many who came from countries with a legacy of slavery, why is that? The leftist government literally micromanages the lives of the poor, they use money as a means of control, many of our policies are irreparably broken. The federal government needs to get out of housing policy, they have created way more problems then they have ever solved.

  21. Libturd says:

    I’d take woke over Qanon and crazy old folk disrupting board of ed meetings screaming about critical race theory and day of the week.

    Maybe at some point, people get fed up. But I have a feeling the woke thing is going to fizzle out all on its own.

    From my perch, all I see is Dem victories. Whether it be Mitch screwing up on the debt ceiling, Newsome winning the recall, Georgia runoffs, voter fraud investigations, etc. Meanwhile, the remaining Republicans are hell bent on making voting more difficult and passing dumb laws like anti mask mandates and anti CRT laws. It’s become the party of the loonies. Sorry, but no amount of wokeness is going to disguise what happened the past four years. Shame too. I certainly didn’t vote for Murphy, but this populist stooge the Republicans ran? Come one now.

    Look me up in 4 years, and you’ll see how well all of this populist sh1t continues to work. Only loonies buy in to made up news.

  22. Juice Box says:

    The flying dick is now passing 40,000 ft!

  23. JCer says:

    Juice, I had no idea how accurate Austin Powers would be. Bezos is basically Dr. Evil and his rockets look exactly the ones in the movie.

  24. Juice Box says:

    Dick, Pecker, Wang, Willy Nelson lol


  25. JCer says:

    3b, what we are witnessing is a literal repeat of the 1930’s. If you look at the Spanish Civil war, that is the worst case scenario. Basically most people are moderates but what you will see is a far left push and an far right push where the center will be forced to pick a side. I’m very concerned for the future, literally the only people holding the dems back from full leftism are Sinema and Manchin, class envy is out of control.

    Lib the dems lose(not in NJ, we are too stupid but nationally), the optics are bad, the president looks very weak, and the dems have had too many scandals. I don’t see them doing well in the midterms even with the cast of losers the Republican party has.

  26. Chicago says:

    Bystander: I recognize your point from last night. However, I guess that my selective justice foment is not unique. Maybe it is more common sense that I though


  27. 3b says:

    Jcer: As a history buff I agree, it’s very reminiscent of the 1930s. Each side claims righteousness, and compromise be damned. If the mid terms go in the Reps favor, there will be civil unrest, worse than last summers riots. If Trump wins in 2024 insurrection, if a leftist on the Dem side wins, insurrection. The Republicans have no credible alternative to Trump , and who do the Dems have , Harris? I think the powers that be on the Dem side know she is a disaster. There are no moderates on either side that those of us in the center can vote for.

  28. Libturd says:

    We’ll see. I think a lot on the right are not happy with the DeSantis’ and the Abbotts. My father has always been a pretty good barometer of the the right and my mom a pretty good barometer of the left. Both are pissed at their own parties, but my dad is way more upset than my mom.

    Most of the scandals (the only one I can even think of is the continuing Hunter chronicles) are unproven and mostly only seen as issues to the right. The Left considers themselves relatively unsc@thed. Then again, the Left does not sit around all day watching loonies lie on TV. Sure there are wonks that follow MSNBC, but it’s not nearly the entire base, which is the case on the right.

  29. Libturd says:


    I don’t see insurrection in either case. I’m not so sure Harris wins the Dem primary anyway. I think Pocahontas will finally get anointed in a repeat of the Biden establishment maintenance process. Trump is not going to win. I’ll bet anyone right here, right now. I will need my hooch replaced by then anyway.

  30. 3b says:

    Lib: I think you are downplaying the leftist threat, it’s just as dangerous as the populist right. And it’s far better organized and monied than the right. As for the Hunter Biden thing it should be concerting, and I don’t see how people can at least not question it. Were it the other side CNN would be all over it. Who is paying the big bucks for a drug addicts BS art work, to name just one issue of concern. And the Maplewood story is true, the school administration has received death threats , why is that not investigated?
    People of good conscience should be concerned about all the madness on both sides , forget about left/ right, Trump etc.

  31. Libturd says:

    Remember, time works against the Republican Party. The younger ones are being indoctrinated like never before. It’s only a matter of time before the right loses on age demographics alone. They need to find their own “cancel culture” and it’s not being anti immigration.

  32. 3b says:

    Lib: We shall see on who wins, but I believe in either case we see insurrection. Harris I believe is definitely out, Warren a possibility.

  33. 3b says:

    Lib: You are absolutely correct. The left is the more powerful and monied side. As for cancel culture that’s a leftist thing. I don’t think in fairness that we can say the Republicans are anti immigration across the board.

  34. Libturd says:

    I am certainly concerned about Hunter and Biden improprieties. Sadly, it pales in comparison to the level of insanity that was the Trump White House. He just lowered the bar to, well, Mr. Pillow and the circus of speakers willing to outright lie on his behalf was just intolerable.

    Then there’s the whole stolen election thing.

    In the grand scheme, the Hunter stuff is bad. It’s just common and almost acceptable at this point. Sadly. It’s Menendez. It’s Hillary. It’s every member of Congress who got a sweetheart loan from Angelo. It’s the insider trading nearly all of them participate in. It’s corruption at it’s finest. But it’s not inviting a linen producer made famous by running endless Foxnews commercials, to find a vaccine for Covid. That’s not corruption. That’s sheer lunacy.

  35. No One says:

    How dare parents object to the schools that they are paying for have been turned into re-education camps attempting to train a new generation of Red Guards? Those dirty redneck parents need to be sent into white-privilege struggle sessions and forced to admit their collective racial guilt! Children should report to the school any parental non-race-allyship, or incorrect thoughts being spread at home. Any parents that complains about the education of their kids at school board meetings are committing terrorist racial hate crimes! All government experts must be obeyed, or they are denying their faith in science!

  36. JCer says:

    Lib the dems are currently overseeing a failing economy, inflation, Newsom is out in CA banning gas powered tools, foreign policy disasters, a doddering old fool in the WH. So much of what the Democratic party is deeply unpopular with the moderate electorate. In democrat biased polls Biden’s approval rating stands at ~35%, if the 2020 election were held today Trump would win even with how much he is despised by so many, hiding Biden in that basement was the best thing they could have done, I think the next presidential election that won’t be an option, if it’s Biden or Kamala I think Trump wins.

  37. BRT says:

    I’m very much pro immigration. Some of my best coworkers in life were 1st gen immigrants. From all over as well. China, Japan, Mexico, Argentina, Puerto Rico, Nigeria, Spain, Netherlands, Germany, Russia, South Africa, Jordan, Palestine, Israel. I’m very much against the mass importation of unskilled labor, as it negatively affects the bargaining power of the lowest income earning people in our country.

  38. JCer says:

    I hear you BRT, immigration is good if the immigrant will be net positive on our society. Immigrants should also not be eligible for government assistance until they are citizens and have lived here for at least 10 years, no free lunch, you need to have paid into the system to receive.

  39. 3b says:

    Lib: I agree, but Trump was a one off, at least for now. That’s the difference between Trump/Biden. There is a belief among many that all was well and good in this country before Trump and he destroyed it all. That’s a simplistic explanation, and simply not true. I acknowledge the damage he did, but the problems are and were much deeper than Trump.

  40. JCer says:

    Lib, you minimize Hunter Biden. When was the last time the sitting VP or President’s family was openly peddling influence? This isn’t some insider trading or minor bribery of a congressman. This is the commander and chief of our foreign policy being influenced by foreign entities. Anything Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 has done pales in comparison. Richard Nixon’s malfeasance looks like child’s play compared to what is going on.

  41. Bystander says:

    Jack “Stop the Steal” Ciattarelli – good luck with that guy. It ain’t happening. Stocks up, house prices way up..NJ is fat and happy. Why would they get rid of Murphy? The avg NJ voter does not care as long as things good for them

  42. Libturd says:

    Nah. Trump peddled influence with the Ukraine. But really, the entire time HRC was SOS, the same bull sh1t was occurring. Until there is a real proven connection between Joe and his son’s dealings, it’s the same old conspiracy crap as the pissing dossier proved to be. Just because it’s all that is discussed 24-7 on the right wing media sites does mean it happened. So much proof has been conjecture. There has been no coverup. I don’t doubt Hunter is an idiot. But if Dad did not set this stuff up for him, then he’s acting alone. Using the family name is not a crime. Ask Trump about that.

  43. Bystander says:

    JCer, you are delusional if you think putting 78 year old Trump up there again will produce a win. Biden is not running and Trump might get Trumped by someone else who has smartened to his tricks. There are other Rs will sights on prize. You may love him because he made libs cry but he will be toxic at another election.

  44. 3b says:

    Bystander: I agree Murphy will win. As for people feeling good, perhaps, but I kind of detect a general sense of unease, not sure why.

  45. leftwing says:

    “Remember, time works against the Republican Party. The younger ones are being indoctrinated like never before. It’s only a matter of time before the right loses on age demographics alone. They need to find their own “cancel culture” and it’s not being anti immigration.”

    Taxes, spending, and relatability……I’ll speak up here, as it is new territory, and I’m pretty plugged into the 20-something swing voter group with a couple of my own and a lot of nieces/nephews (and in-laws) that hit dead center in this space….

    These kids are earning paychecks now and see how little they actually take home. They become aware of the impact of spending (taxes) and who the main advocates of those policies are. And the advocates’ backgrounds.

    It’s amazing to see the look in their eyes when they grasp what $5T means specifically to them and that being indentured to that level of indebtedness well into the future is championed by people who statistically should have been dead years ago and most certainly will not be on this Earth much longer.

    Add in the Federal tax paying math…..”next time you go outside look around and pick three people. Only one of those with you will be paying this tab, the other two are free-riders.”

    Then factor in the relatability – were you going to Presidential Balls at the White House when you were in college? No? That 80+ year old hag selling out your future was there…how does that feel? Do you really think she represents YOUR interests? Still feel like following this insane, privileged grandmother down the pike now?


  46. Bystander says:

    A failing economy with house prices up 25% and more and Dow hovering at 34-35K…ok How many tweets would you have swallowed from the Orange god if he had those numbers? Red hat dopes would be exalting hin now.

  47. Bystander says:


    The unease is that smart sense that something is wrong – how can we have pandemic, record GDP drop, record unemployment and year later stocks reaching all time highs and home prices through roof. Your paycheck is not getting bigger. How long does Oz Powell keep this going and why? Honestly, it is matrix like BS. It seems wrong bc it is way, way too easy. Why work hard all these years if simply printing money would have made us a rich?

  48. grim says:

    We are all crypto now.

    I now know someone who purchased a >$1m house outright based on dumb luck crypto profitz.

  49. Bystander says:

    I was as indiscreet, regular Italian place for dinner with family in “humble” Trumbull. Was walking with son around small parking lot, maybe 25 cars. There were two new Mercedes-Benz GLS 450 and 2 new Cayennes as well as several Teslas. Sure, everything is fine.

  50. Fast Eddie says:

    Sure, everything is fine.

    That’s because you’re in outer white-landier.

  51. Bystander says:

    Hah, Ed

    Outer white-landia..mixed in quite a bit of WT actually. I was a skip stone thrown from Bridgeport border which Trumbull borders. Not white-landia.

  52. SmallGovConservative says:

    Note to Lib, Bi and the other Dem stooges — your parochialism is showing. You guys are so tightly wrapped up in your northeast blue bubble that you have no idea what’s going on in other parts of the country. Unlike you guys, who never get tired of embarrassing yourselves as you apologize for the likes of Biden, Harris, DeBlasio, Murphy, Lightfoot, Newsome, AOC, etc, huge swaths of this country recognize the dangerous incompetence and radicalism of the modern Dem party — and can’t wait to vote for T.

  53. Libturd says:

    We hard that a year ago. Maybe the red team will run Mr. Pillow?

  54. Out of the Ashes goes the Phoenix says:

    I hope the Red Cross gets some donations before the next election, cause it’s going to be a bloodbath.

    Maybe literally.

  55. Libturd says:

    Here ya go.


    Before he went populist, he was voted one of the best governors in the nation. Today, not so much. I thought for sure Texans were the people you had the pulse on. I guess I was wrong.

    Then there is the king of the populists. Mr. anti-business, DeSantis


    You may want to invest in one of those pulse oximeters (or better yet, a ball gag).

  56. BRT says:

    19% of all US households used up all their savings during the pandemic…

    The good news is, their savings was $250

  57. Libturd says:

    $250? You’re too kind.

    Can’t wait until April when nearly every family with kids will have to pay back thousand upon thousands of dollars to Uncle Sam.

    Lookout below.

  58. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    I guess populism is the new pejorative do for from the left.

    I’m willing to bear it. When your government forces to take a worthless shot but leaves the border open to hordes of virus carriers. Or they put up fences around public buildings but tear them down on the border in the middle of a pandemic I’m ok with a populist pushback.

  59. Bystander says:


    Wipe that orange dribble off your chin. FYI – he will have to run in primaries against other R loonies unlike 2020. That should be fun. 78 year old Dumpy with narcissistic rage disorder and dementia.

  60. Ex says:

    Bystander. Don’t forget the cognitive ability of a third grader.

  61. Libturd says:

    When healthy.

  62. JCer says:

    I hope they can find someone other than Trump. Dems are done in 2024, Chinese crash and debt bubble is going to burst, there will be a massive recession, they will take the fall for it. Just as a good economy is positive for the incumbent a bad one is disastrous for the incumbent.

    As for Desantis and Abbott, once the covid wave is over the voters will forget.

    Bystander you do realize old time red Connecticut was much better than the blue run version today right? What you saw in CT and NJ will come nationwide if we allow the democrats to dictate fiscal policy. The democrats ruined these states along with NY and CA. Economic opportunity in these places has fallen off a cliff compared to what it was 40 years ago, CA is very lucky because of weather and locvation but even they are running off the high wage earners. If you are a high wage earner you might as well live in Europe at least then the government services will be good as opposed to what you get in CA.

  63. SmallGovConservative says:

    Bystander says:
    October 13, 2021 at 2:09 pm
    “…he will have to run in primaries… That should be fun. 78 year old Dumpy with…dementia.”

    This has to be a candidate for least-self-aware post of the year. You voted for a corrupt, career politician who very literally suffers from dementia! Could you possibly be any more clueless?

  64. Fast Eddie says:

    I was amazed how much Trump got accomplished during his administration. It makes you wonder what these other administrations have been doing. It was nothing more than lip service and feeding their own agendas and taking care of their friends and family. The only other time when I actually felt like an administration was accomplishing anything was during the Reagan administration.

    Bush I and II was meh, Clinton seemed to sail through calm foreign and domestic waters, Obammy just talked and was void of anything. Hope and change and transformation put us in a cultural/s0cietal/m0ral hole… a dark time cheering on America-haters that has only gotten worse. And now, we have a blithering, drooling f0ol as president and a cackling w1tch as his side kick. At the very least, 2022 needs to be a bloodbath for the dems.

    Either that or separate the country and let the progressives drown in their own sorrowful utopia. Give us half the states and let the bleeding hearts create their own fool’s paradise. I wonder who’s going to pull the wagon in their land of nod when everyone is sitting in the flat bed looking for a free ride.

  65. Bystander says:


    Trump won’t be so lucky to have someone as unsavory and insane on the other side as Trump in 2020. Sorry to break it to you.

    We’ll see JCer. Economy dictates all. FYI – Republican Gov Lowell Weicker introduced personal income tax in CT around 1991. Tell me more about R fiscal responsilibilty. I have never seen it. Spend insanely and cut taxes then pray the Dem adults come to rescue when deficit gets out of hand so they can blame them for raising revenue. R fiscal responsbility is a sham that that side keeps clinging to when it is long, long gone.

    Also, for all crying and whining, we are still in NY, CT, NJ.

  66. SmallGovConservative says:

    Bystander says:
    October 13, 2021 at 4:08 pm
    “FYI – Republican Gov Lowell Weicker introduced personal income tax in CT…”

    Nice try. You ‘fake news’ libs are absolutely shameless — as well as clueless! From his wiki…

    “[Weicker] was known as a Rockefeller Republican in Congress, causing conservative-leaning Republicans to endorse his opponent Joe Lieberman, a New Democrat in the 1988 Senate election…He later left the Republican Party and became one of the few third party candidates to be elected to a state governorship in the United States in recent years, doing so on the ticket of A Connecticut Party.”

  67. No One says:

    Libturd, you are starting to live up to your name.

    If you read the actual polls for DeSantis, just after Florida’s seasonal Covid peak in early September, his approval rating was at about 48% and his disapproval rating was about 48%, which was highly correlated to political party affiliation. That’s after a 7% drop from his peak approval rating (the 14% is a headline getter, but it just reflects that a decrease in approval is an increase in disapproval).

    The talking points you aren’t parroting are the ones that applies the same calculation to Joe Biden’s approval/disapproval numbers. According to 538, since May 25, slow Joe has plunged from 55%Approve/40% disapprove to 45% approve/50% disapprove. So his net approval has plunged a massive 20%, much worse than DeSantis. And this is while every mainstream media hack has done everything they possibly could to coddle, excuse, and promote Biden’s lame presidency, while casting DeSantis as the great Satan of the South.

  68. Libturd says:

    “Economy dictates all.”

    Just a reminder, for the first time in my life, it didn’t in 2016. Then again, the Dems were asleep at the wheel as Trump had the front tires lifted off the ground while claiming the car was getting the best mileage ever.

  69. truesue says:

    Holy cow …Now Michal Burry ….”There are only two genders. There. Please unfollow me.”

  70. Libturd says:

    I was not speaking at all to Biden’s numbers. I can’t stand him too. But there’s a big difference between someone suffering from dementia than someone who is not but acts like he is.

    I am not surprised at all at Biden’s numbers. I said he would mostly be a do nothing establishment Democrat and that Pelosi would run the show. This is exactly what is happening. There is no doubt that Pelosi arranged the deft withdrawal of the candidates splitting the establishment versus the unified Bernie vote which brought about the overnight victory for Biden in the primary. But you all knew that already.

    The mistake, I feel, most of you are making is thinking that the mid-terms or 2024 will be about Biden’s performance. It won’t be. It will continue to be about one thing. Stopping the populist movement. Again, it does not matter who the Republicans run. Unless it’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing, who claims to espouse the values formerly held by the Republican Party, it’s pretty much over. It’s just to easy for the Dems to get out the vote against the backdrop of scapegoating, constant lies and generally all xenophobia, all of the time.

    Look at Goat and Small Time Conservative (probably the same poster). Out of one side of his mouth he constantly utters, we don’t need masks or vaccines. Out of the other side of his mouth, it’s constantly, we should close the borders to those pandemic carrying illegals. The hypocrisy is as clear as the constant lies. It’s xenophobia personified. It does not win in a country that is proud of its diverse population and freedom loving past. Though it sure works well in less homogenous countries.

  71. 3b says:

    Lib: The mid-terms might be about stopping the populists, but could in my opinion just as easily about stopping the equally bad leftist woke/ cancel madness. A lot of centrists who voted Biden are concerned with where this is all going; myself as well , although I did not vote for Biden or Trump. If Trump was out of the picture , I could definitely see the Republicans crushing the Dems in 2024.

  72. Libturd says:

    3b, I would normally agree with you, but the woke madness was occuring before demented Biden beat Trump. I know you all want to attribute Trump’s loss directly to Covid, but the numbers of people who pulled the lever for a man who didn’t even campaign was tremendous.

    Good luck getting Trump out of the picture. He is going to split the vote between the intelligent Republicans and the insurrection class of Republicans for the foreseeable future.

    In other news, all but four NHL players are vaccinated. Time for the Republicans to announce their boycott of the NHL.

  73. Bystander says:


    You are such a dope. He was Republican senator from CT for 18 years up until running for gov. I guess a moderate Repub is a democrat in your warped brain. Then again you blow Trump who was a D for years but switched bc no one would ever take misogynistic sicko on left. Not surprising you get confused.

  74. Juice Box says:

    Burry’s tweet storm is interesting but he should not be backing a dead horse.


  75. JCer says:

    Bystander, the institution of an income tax was just the beginning, democrats don’t seem to understand tax competitiveness. If CT were much cheaper than NY and the other surrounding states it could be ok but if not it is a problem for attracting the businesses and resident you want and need. Also it went from a flat income tax to progressive which ecumenically successful states simply do not have progressive taxes, it does not work as the high earner just leave.

  76. No One says:

    Did Burry just join Twitter? I only see tweets from the last day, no history.

  77. grim says:

    Bezos really is a dickhead, wow.

    “Shut up old guy, time to party, give me the champagne, we need to spray the groupies dancing over there”

  78. 3b says:

    Lib: I don’t think Trump lost because of Covid, he lost because he is a lunatic. I did not vote for him in either election; I stated home. The woke nonsense has increased dramatically since Biden took office. It’s like they felt empowered by the election, and no one on the Dem side is speaking out against it. The Populists and the Woke crowd are equally dangerous, perhaps because main stream media remains silent. Both of these philosophies espouse hatred and division.

  79. leftwing says:

    “Stopping the populist movement.”

    Dude, you are a dog with a bone on this one. Every single post. LOL. We get it.

    “Again, it does not matter who the Republicans run. Unless it’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing, who claims to espouse the values formerly held by the Republican Party, it’s pretty much over.”

    Nobody wants to go back to the Repub Party of those days, except the Repubs from those days. Latest exhibit, an editorial penned by CTWhitman decrying the current state of affairs and pleading [threatening] a split off, third party.

    Yeah, that Whitman. The one with grandparents from Yale, and the contractor father with the farm estate in Oldwick. Next to Schley Mountain. Named after another of her grandparents.

    Most of the current generation, hell most people of my generation, do not want to hear from Medicare politicians of multi-generational privilege. Whitman, Romney, McCain, Bush….warmed over leftovers long ago. First Reagan, next the Tea Party. Then Trump. Signs are clear. Just need the message to connect with the right messenger and it will be a steam roller.

    God I hope NYS locks Trump up…..

  80. Juice Box says:

    Burry has been tweeting and deleting forever.. There are archives out there.

    His battle with Cathy in August was fun he took out $31 million in Puts against AAKK…
    Man can and does put his money where his mouth is. He is ahead a bit…on his bet against Cathy.

  81. leftwing says:

    “[Weicker] was Republican senator from CT for 18 years up until running for gov. I guess a moderate Repub is a democrat in your warped brain.”

    Assuming it is correct that conservatives abandoned him to vote for Lieberman – Lieberman! – I would hardly classify Weicker as anything near a Repub. Therefore, his departure from the Party.

  82. Bystander says:

    Hah left..and given that Lieberman abandoned the Dems and spoke at Republican convention, I think it negates the entire thing.

  83. SmallGovConservative says:

    Give it up Bi. You lied when you said that the personal income tax was introduced in CT by a Republican gov. And then when you were caught, you responded just like the Dem stooge ‘journalists’ at NYT/CNN/MSNBC do when they’re caught lying — refuse to admit it, say you didn’t mean what you really said, and veer off into a nonsensical, TDS-fueled rant. You sound like Punkin, except your posts are less accurate, less honest and less tethered to reality.

  84. JCer says:

    Plus as bad as that income tax was the dems doubled down with the biggest tax increases ever. Malloy(sp) is the reason you cannot find a better job, he chased away a lot of employers.

  85. Libturd says:

    For all of the ranting about tax cuts, Republicans are the biggest spenders. I guess debt doesn’t matter.

  86. JCer says:

    lib republicans suck but at the end of the day companies and rich people go to where they are treated best. Places like NJ cannot compete with lower tax states. Politicians in general are reprehensible none of them act responsibly all of them are trying to do what is politically expedient. I certainly do not think republicans act responsibly, at this point I just think they are less dangerous than the democrats.

  87. Bystander says:

    Sure dipshit, just because you don’t like him being Republican for his entire political career does not change that he was. Play whatever mental gymnastics you want. He was a moderate R. I guess I can say Lieberman was not a D either because he changed to I at end to win election? Is that how small mind works?

  88. No One says:

    I hear that if Dems pass the human “infrastructure” bill, you’ll be able to see the craters of the moon with your own eyes. It’s going to be amazing.

  89. Libturd says:

    I’m in!

  90. Grim says:

    I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhuser Gate. Craters on the moon of Earth. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

  91. Juice Box says:

    More human than human is our motto!

  92. BRT says:

    Was that scripted or did she come up with that. Does she honestly believe we common folk can all expend that rocket fuel to personally visit the moon? Doesn’t that go against the idea of net zero emissions. I bet she thinks you can use an electric rocket to get to the moon.

  93. grim says:

    Worth noting, it was taken out of context, she meant through a telescope.

    Unlike RBG, whose context was selectively avoided by the media. This is crazy.


    Hard to believe a Supreme Court justice, whip-smart as she was, misunderstood the question.

    “Not standing for the anthem shows a “contempt for a government that has made it possible for their parents and grandparents to live a decent life … Which they probably could not have lived in the places they came from … as they became older, they realize that this was youthful folly. And that’s why education is important,” Ginsburg told Couric at the time. “I think it’s a terrible thing to do, but I wouldn’t lock a person up for doing it. I would point out how ridiculous it seems to me to do such an act.””

  94. Juice Box says:

    BRT – VP is supposed to be running NASA. Our current VP seems to be unusable in most leadership roles so they tried to pair her with children. Seems she struck out again.

    I would suggest sleepy Joe send her on diplomatic missions abroad like Obama did to get rid of him, but in reality they need her around for tie breaking senate votes and to take one for the team (like it or not) on the border. However she has deemed that too radioactive and actually skipped the Mexico city meeting with our two governments last week over the border issues, to instead come to Montclair State University for a vaccine photo op…..

  95. BRT says:

    Fact of the matter is, after Tulsi Gabbard slayed her in the debates, she was heading to less than 1% support. She’s got zero admirable qualities. That was obvious when her father publicly took issue with her behavior and comments.

  96. Fast Eddie says:

    Build back better.


  97. hmmmm says:

    Companies and rich people are like locusts. They move to a low cost area, drive up the cost, and then run to a new cheap location to do the same thing again after driving up said costs.

    JCer says:
    October 13, 2021 at 9:46 pm
    lib republicans suck but at the end of the day companies and rich people go to where they are treated best. Places like NJ cannot compete with lower tax states. Politicians in general are reprehensible none of them act responsibly all of them are trying to do what is politically expedient. I certainly do not think republicans act responsibly, at this point I just think they are less dangerous than the democrats.

  98. 3b says:

    The Post article on Couric/ Ginsburg will make barely a ripple in the rest of the media. And, apologists will explain it away as no big deal.

  99. 3b says:

    Juice: The Dems won’t chose Harris as the nominee in 2024. They have to figure out a way to make her go away.

  100. grim says:

    Hunter 2024

  101. Juice Box says:

    It’s all misunderstood Kapernick was taking a knee to show respect for the military and their families…

    BTW 2007 South Park “one Katie Couric is about two and a half pounds of excrement”

  102. Juice Box says:

    3b – 1,118 days until the next presidential election.

    Allot can happen between now and then, Kamala could actually be the incumbent…The new president then would pick someone to be the new VP, and a simple majority of both houses have to approve. They would pick a loyalist first, I would think perhaps a congresscritter from Texas like Rep Filemon Vela who is one of the top leaders in the party.

    Tick Tok………goes the clock..

  103. Juice Box says:

    Hunter does get an enviable amount of national attention

    There was once a Billy Beer…

    How about Hunter endorsing an infused komb*ucha drink. They could call it “Biden Bo*ocha”


  104. 3b says:

    Juice: She could be the incumbent, and that may have been the original thought, but I think the Dems realize she is a disaster, and will try and keep Joe going. Harris as incumbent and presumed candidate for 2024, would be a boom for Republicans and Trump. The question is how do they get rid of her? I don’t think she goes quietly.

  105. 3b says:

    Grim: Hunter can hang his artwork in the Oval Office!

  106. 3b says:

    Juice: Billy Carter was harmless.

  107. Stuart J Weissman says:

    I think they all bow to Pelosi. Much like in the primary. Pelosi can have her assigned SOS (lucrative and experience building), opening the doors for the field of 20 again. Could you imagine Bernie vs. Trump. Oh those would be brilliant debates. Will never happen.

  108. Juice Box says:

    Speaking of 2024…Cuomo is out let’s see who else we have on the bench…

    “Former President Barack Obama will appear with Gov Murphy at a rally in Newark on Oct. 23. The event will be used to promote early in-person voting, which begins that day in the state for the very first time..”

  109. 3b says:

    Murph 24! It’s got a ring to it!

  110. LA says:

    I keep hearing about workforce shortages yet see thousands of perfectly capable people not working in LA alone, The socialiism thing isn’t working.

  111. BRT says:

    You want flashback cringe, here’s Obama campaigning for Jon Corzine. According to Obama, Corzine was the go to guy on the economy.


  112. Juice Box says:

    BRT – First time I saw him in person he was Senator Obama. He was flown in to Hoboken in November of 2006 to stump for Senator Menendez in front of the train station. Governor Corzine was there too. It was an interesting evening, you could tell then he was being groomed for 2008, it was only a few short months later in February 2007 he announced he was running for President.

  113. Juice Box says:

    Humm home I actually looked at when I moved here now sold for $889,000…..These were all $600 range eight years ago….Nice when your house goes up $280,000 in a few short years….

  114. BRT says:

    Right after he won the election, he viewed himself as a salesman and went around stumping for everyone. I’d love to force people to watch the whole speech and see just how oblivious the president was to NJ. At least Christie acknowledged our problems. He did very little to fix them because he was too busy running for president for both terms.

  115. Libturd says:

    Christie was the best governor NJ has had since I was old enough to pay attention. He was so good his first year or two, his presidential aspirations were warranted, to the demise of NJ.

    For the first time ever, my property taxes slowed from $1,000 a year increases. His fixing of police arbitration, reform of the teachers benefits, municipal property tax cap and school superintendent salary limits were all absolutely necessary and quite effective at slowing NJ’s non-stop property tax increases.

    The problem is that he did not care about optics, which is all that people care about these days.

  116. leftwing says:

    “Companies and rich people are like locusts. They move to a low cost area, drive up the cost, and then run to a new cheap location to do the same thing again after driving up said costs.”

    What do you think happened in your vaunted NJ to give you all the housing appreciation that so many here live off of?

    My ex’s hometown, hot as hell over the last two decades, had only a two lane state road in/out until the explosion of building in the 70s. Wildly low cost. Woods, literally. That was the first stair step up, the next was the booming 80s, and the most recent the dropping of the Midtown direct.

    One major subdivision was occupied predominantly by AT&T middle managers. Townies returning from college used to turn their noses up at it. Original 4BR/BA houses, updated, just before the Midtown direct could be had there in the 6s and 7s. Now? If you can find one it’s 2x, latest sales at $1.6-1.7m. Want a new one after knockdown, sales are in the $2.3-2.5m range.

    Natural flow. Good for Nashville, Austin, etc. They are going through the cycle now that NJ did decades ago. If you are there early, if you are a current resident, you are making bank.

    Just like the stock market there are cycles, peaks, and good/bad entry points. In that big picture context NJ is topping and the activity is clearly moving elsewhere.

  117. Fast Eddie says:

    I keep eyeing Nashville. It’ ain’t cheap… as far as the surrounding neighborhoods that I’ve looked at so far. Still trying to figure out the most desirable ‘burbs.

  118. leftwing says:

    Agree. Getting late in this cycle. Like early aughts here.

  119. leftwing says:

    Best line from chi’s article on the realtor murder/suicide….

    “He bought the house sight unseen from Alabama, moved in here Thursday and called a real estate agent Friday to return the house, [the neighbor said]…”


    Should have tried the same thing with my ex-. Definitely would have been worth the calls to see if her parents or siblings would have take accepted a return even if nothing happened. Only slightly used and I have receipts.

  120. 3b says:

    Lib: I remember the Christie years and the teachers I know bitching about the 5.00 co-pays.

  121. BRT says:


    I’ve stayed before, but Christie’s health insurance reform I. Teachers only freed up cash for the admins to hire even more admins. The next result was teachers leaving the profession due to less take home pay without the taxpayers saving a dime .

  122. Fast Eddie says:


    Wow. All the suburbs are definitely not cheap. The difference I see is you’re paying $1000 less/month in property taxes.

    This one is listed at just under 900K but taxes are 6.8K. It looks like they were reassessed from the previous year where taxes were 5.1K. Regardless, this house in Allendale or somewhere up here would have that place at 17K in taxes:


    It’s hard to tell if the whole Nashville area has exploded in price as I don’t know the area. I know I’ll love the culture but couldn’t say anything about the area. A summer trip is being planned for next year.

  123. 3b says:

    Fast: You are a Jersey Boy, I just can’t see you in Nashville, or anywhere outside N.J.

  124. JCer says:

    That certainly looks like a bad deal, almost 900k for that dumpy little house and the schools are trash. Yes the taxes are way lower than NJ but it is not a good value. I paid a bit more for my house in NJ 6 years ago, it’s nearly double the size, has better finishes in every room, a much bigger lot, surrounded by nicer homes than what surrounds that one. When Nashville was reasonably priced it was one thing, at these kinds of numbers why? If you are going to relocate to someplace pretty random might as well get some bang for the buck.

  125. Bystander says:

    If you like religion and country music then Nashville for you but it is a smallish city..the Honky Tonk area gets boring fast. For the high price tag, I don’t see it. I would a choose a cheap peaceful area with major flight hub close. You could fly to NYC several times a year and get that feeling you want. Really the rest of cities will feel like pretend if you have lived here all life.

  126. Fast Eddie says:


    Deep Jersey boy for sure. Born and raised in Hudson County, family were firefighters and tavern owners but it’s all changing so much that I can’t take the insistent taxes, tolls and expenses. The dems continue to shakedown this state and the demographics are changing drastically as well. What’s left to identify with?

  127. Libturd says:

    Pizza and bagels.

  128. Fast Eddie says:

    Really the rest of cities will feel like pretend if you have lived here all life.

    I would imagine. There is a feeling of void when traveling outside the NYC metro area but hey, I’m inching closer to the retirement years so what else do I need? As far as politics is concerned, consider me a deplorable so if the shoe fits… Aside from the killer taxes, tolls and other things here, northern NJ is not what it was. I want to be in surroundings more in tune with what I consider American.

  129. 3b says:

    Bystander: Definitely a lot of country music in Nashville, but also a lot of music in general, Rock, Jazz, Rockabilly, a lot of American music in general has its roots in the Nashville area.

  130. Fast Eddie says:


    Here we go; Nascar, Nashville and Marcus! ;)


  131. 3b says:

    Fast: I don’t think NYC is as good as it was, very Disney fied and fake, a lot of cool neighborhoods gone. And now crime and chaos back. NYC was its neighborhoods.

    I don’t get why(pre-pandemic) tourists stand in the middle of Times Square staring at screens.

  132. Old realtor says:

    Other than English speaking white people, what makes an area ” American” to you? The New Jersey you grew up in was ethnically diverse, crowded and expensive relative to other parts of the country. You don’t want to live in a different area, you want to live in the past.

  133. Fast Eddie says:


    Time will tell if NYC will flex its muscles again. The city has been declared dead many times in the past and has always bounced back.

  134. grim says:

    You are too late for Nashville proper, you’d be crazy to buy there.

    You want McMansions? Head south to Brentwood, if you want cheaper, go to Franklin. Either way, get ready to fall off your chair.

    You want cheaper and rural, head north, but the people that went south will think you are a cheap hick for doing it.

  135. Fast Eddie says:


    I’ve been looking at a few ‘burbs to the south; Brentwood Franklin and that route 65 corridor to the south. I wouldn’t want to live in the middle of Nashville city proper, but just outside.

  136. grim says:

    I know a few folks that live NE in Hendersonville and they like it.

  137. Fast Eddie says:

    I know a few folks that live NE in Hendersonville and they like it.

    These areas that you’re mentioning pop up in searches as the most desirable areas to live.

  138. 3b says:

    Fast: Time will tell, but history shows some great cities never do come back. A lot of change in NYC this past almost 2 years including WFH. This time will be tougher if it comes back this time. I am convinced however, that part of that will be NYC reinventing itself, and that includes becoming more competitive.

  139. Grim says:

    Been to Nashville maybe 50 times since the early 2000s.

    Turned down relo offers multiple times. Maybe about 50 folks took the offers to go down. I still talk to a good number of them.

    Saw downtown go from shit to riches. Most everyone bought in Brentwood at the time. The really brave ones bought downtown. Good friend of mine has a house near Music Row. He did very well.

  140. BRT says:

    I’ve stayed before, but Christie’s health insurance reform I. Teachers only freed up cash for the admins to hire even more admins. The next result was teachers leaving the profession due to less take home pay without the taxpayers saving a dime .

    lol, my autocorrect really destroyed this one.

    I’ve said before, but Christie’s health insurance reform was pointless. It hurt teachers take home pay and freed up cash for the admins to hire even more admins. The next result was teachers leaving the profession due to less take home pay without the taxpayers saving a dime.

    to add to this, it was a slap in the face to existing contracts. I worked in a district that negotiated no contributions with less salary. Other districts already had contributions but more salary. Long story short:

    My district, average pay was 65k, free benefits.
    Nearby district, average pay was 85k major contributions.

    The 2nd of the two was unaffected by the healthcare “reform”. My district became, still an average pay of $65k but now you were paying through the nose for health insurance. Basically, it was equal to an 8 year wage freeze over time as it was phased in. Those contributions ate away at any “raises” and cost of living adjustments you got each year.

  141. Grim says:

    Everyone called him crazy for spending $200k in like 2001 or 2002. Had to send his kids to private school to boot. I’d guess his place would go for 2 million now.

  142. 3b says:

    BRT: I was not aware of that.

  143. Fast Eddie says:

    Other than English speaking white people, what makes an area ” American” to you?

    Any area where lepers are more welcomed than l1beral progress1ves.

  144. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You miss me?!

    Show me an example of a global powerhouse like NYC dying, 3B. It’s just not going to happen. What part of the country can absorb this economy and housing supply? All ears.

  145. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Most of the country ran up in pricing…they all caught up to NYC metro pricing. Hell, even passed it up. I beat this drum on this blog for the past 8 years. Wait till their taxes go up…

    Only way you get cheap housing is in an undesirable location most likely far from everything.

  146. Hold my beer says:

    Rome kind of had a bad 1500 years.

  147. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yet, it still is the most populated city in Italy.

    NYC metro has a population of 18 million people. Not many places can touch that. You could lose 50% of the population in nyc metro, and still have an insane amount of people.

  148. Bystander says:

    Denton TX, Ed..ornery, old Texan I worked with told me “it had more culture than NYC”. Of course only a moron would make that statement but he was red through and through.

  149. Ex says:

    Stupid is as stupid does.

  150. Ex says:

    The level of stupidity and dishonestly on the right is pathetic.

  151. 3b says:

    Ex: It’s pretty bad on the left too, only you won’t recognize it.

  152. 3b says:

    Pumps: It was blissfully peaceful without the deranged rantings of our resident lunatic. As for NYC, your Girl Cathie says it’s dying, you should be screaming at her, not me. Some more big WFH announcements to come stay tuned!! Cathy knows!!

  153. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Maybe, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

    I respect her, but that’s a big call.

  154. Walking says:

    Nashville is also the top destination location for Bachelorette Parties. Bars, drinks and plenty of bad boy musicians.

  155. 3b says:

    Pumps: So she is right on everything else, but you doubt she is right on NYC dying. I
    Am not surprised! You are absolutely comical!

  156. 3b says:

    Walking: A lot of great musicians there including back up bands that tour with the Stones and other bands. When they are not on tour they play in various spots in Nashville. We really enjoyed our visit there a few years ago.

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  158. JCer says:

    3b I’d say Cathy is wrong, wrong about most things. NYC is experiencing bad times as it has in the past but it remains the financial capital of the United States. If they could shake bad governance they’d recover quickly, between DeBlasio and Cuomo the governance makes NYers wish for Dinkins. Bad governance is what makes Newark…Newark and not like Nashville, a city like Newark is a sleeping giant but the citizens are ignorant, the government is corrupt and they cannot get out of their own way. Don’t get me wrong Nashville seems like a cool city but it is punching above it’s weight, it simply does not have the economy to carry the current level of pricing. The government is killing NY(NJ and CT for that matter), if they allowed the businesses to breath a little things would get better. When you are instituting 1970s policies you get 1970’s results. Pumps isn’t wrong about NYC there are reasons it was so important to begin with, deep water ports, stable weather and water supply, strategic eastern seaboard location, etc. But the politicians don’t realize that non-competitive taxation basically negates these advantages.

  159. BRT says:

    Article from Nature:

    Around a year ago — before Delta and other variants entered the COVID-19 lexicon — virologists Theodora Hatziioannou and Paul Bieniasz, both at Rockefeller University in New York City, set out to make a version of a key SARS-CoV-2 protein with the ability to dodge all the infection-blocking antibodies our body makes.

    The goal was to identify the parts of spike — the protein SARS-CoV-2 uses to infect cells — that are targeted by these neutralizing antibodies in order to map a key part of our body’s attack on the virus. So the researchers mixed and matched potentially concerning mutations identified in lab experiments and circulating viruses, and tested their Franken-spikes in harmless ‘pseudotype’ viruses incapable of causing COVID-19. In a study published this September in Nature1, they reported that a spike mutant containing 20 changes was fully resistant to neutralizing antibodies made by most of the people tested who had been either infected or vaccinated — but not to everyone’s.

    Kids and COVID: why young immune systems are still on top

    Those who had recovered from COVID-19 months before receiving their jabs harboured antibodies capable of defanging the mutant spike, which displays far more resistance to immune attack than any known naturally occurring variant. These peoples’ antibodies even blocked other types of coronaviruses. “It’s very likely they will be effective against any future variant that SARS-CoV-2 throws against them,” says Hatziioannou.

    As the world watches out for new coronavirus variants, the basis of such ‘super-immunity’ has become one of the pandemic’s great mysteries. Researchers hope that, by mapping the differences between the immune protection that comes from infection compared with that from vaccination, they can chart a safer path to this higher level of protection.

    “It has implications on boosters and how our immune responses are primed for the next variant that emerges,” says Mehul Suthar, a virologist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. “We’re flying by the seat of our pants trying to figure this stuff out.”

    Hybrid immunity
    Not long after countries began rolling out vaccines, researchers started noticing unique properties of the vaccine responses of people who had previously caught and recovered from COVID-19. “We saw that the antibodies come up to these astronomical levels that outpace what you get from two doses of vaccine alone,” says Rishi Goel, an immunologist at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia who is part of a team studying super-immunity — or ‘hybrid immunity’, as most scientists call it.

    Initial studies of people with hybrid immunity found that their serum — the antibody-containing portion of blood — was far better able to neutralize immune-evading strains, such as the Beta variant identified in South Africa, and other coronaviruses, compared with ‘naive’ vaccinated individuals who had never encountered SARS-CoV-22. It wasn’t clear whether this was just due to the high levels of neutralizing antibodies, or to other properties.

    The most recent studies suggest that hybrid immunity is, at least partly, due to immune players called memory B cells. The bulk of antibodies made after infection or vaccination come from short-lived cells called plasmablasts, and antibody levels fall when these cells inevitably die-off. Once plasmablasts are gone, the main source of antibodies becomes much rarer memory B cells that are triggered by either infection or vaccination.

    International COVID-19 trial to restart with focus on immune responses

    Some of these long-lived cells make higher-quality antibodies than plasmablasts, says Michel Nussenzweig, an immunologist at the Rockefeller. That’s because they evolve in organs called lymph nodes, gaining mutations that help them to bind more tightly to the spike protein over time. When people who recovered from COVID-19 are re-exposed to SARS-CoV-2’s spike, these cells multiply and churn out more of these highly potent antibodies.

    “You get a sniff of antigen, in this case of mRNA vaccine, and those cells just explode,” says Goel. In this way, a first vaccine dose in someone who has previously been infected is doing the same job as a second dose in someone who has never had COVID-19.

    Potent antibodies
    Differences between the memory B cells triggered by infection and those triggered by vaccination — as well as the antibodies they make — might also underlie the heightened responses of hybrid immunity. Infection and vaccination expose the spike protein to the immune system in vastly different ways, Nussenzweig says.

    In a series of studies3,4,5, Nussenzweig’s team, which includes Hatziioannou and Bieniasz, compared the antibody responses of infected and vaccinated people. Both lead to the establishment of memory B cells that make antibodies that have evolved to become more potent, but the researchers suggest this occurs to a greater extent after infection.

    The team isolated hundreds of memory B cells — each making a unique antibody — from people at various time points after infection and vaccination. Natural infection triggered antibodies that continued to grow in potency and their breadth against variants for a year after infection, whereas most of those elicited by vaccination seemed to stop changing in the weeks after a second dose. Memory B cells that evolved after infection were also more likely than those from vaccination to make antibodies that block immune-evading variants such as Beta and Delta.

    Healthcare workers get the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccination in Portland, Oregon.
    Healthcare workers receiving the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. People who get the vaccine after infection are less likely to test positive for COVID-19 than individuals with no history of infection.Credit: Paula Bronstein/Getty

    A separate study found that, compared with mRNA vaccination, infection leads to a pool of antibodies that recognize variants more evenly by targeting diverse regions of spike6. The researchers also found that people with hybrid immunity produced consistently higher levels of antibodies, compared with never-infected vaccinated people, for up to 7 months. Antibody levels were also more stable in people with hybrid immunity, report the team led by immunologist Duane Wesemann, at Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts.

    ‘Not surprising’
    Many studies of hybrid immunity haven’t followed naive vaccine recipients for as long as those who recovered from COVID, and it’s possible their B cells will make antibodies that gain potency and breadth with more time, additional vaccine doses, or both, researchers say. It can take months for a stable pool of memory B cells to establish itself and mature.

    “It’s not surprising that people infected and vaccinated are getting a nice response,” says Ali Ellebedy, a B-cell immunologist at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. “We are comparing someone who started the race three to four months ago to someone who started the race now.”

    COVID vaccine immunity is waning — how much does that matter?

    There is some evidence that people who received both jabs without previously being infected seem to be catching up. Ellebedy’s team collected lymph-node samples from mRNA-vaccinated individuals and found signs that some of their memory B cells triggered by the vaccination were gaining mutations, up to 12 weeks after the second dose, that enabled them to recognize diverse coronaviruses, including some that cause common colds7.

    Goel, University of Pennsylvania immunologist John Wherry and their colleagues found signs that six months after vaccination, memory B cells from naive individuals were continuing to grow in number and evolve greater capacity to neutralize variants8. Antibody levels fell after vaccination, but these cells should start cranking out antibodies if they encounter SARS-CoV-2 again. “The reality is you have a pool of high-quality memory B cells that are there to protect you if you ever see this antigen again,” Goel says.

    Booster benefits
    A third vaccine dose might allow people who haven’t been infected to achieve the benefits of hybrid immunity, says Matthieu Mahévas, an immunologist at the Necker Institute for Sick Children in Paris. His team found that some of the memory B cells from naive vaccine recipients could recognize Beta and Delta, two months after vaccination9. “When you boost this pool, you can clearly imagine you will generate potent neutralizing antibodies against variants,” Mahévas says.

    Extending the interval between vaccine doses could also mimic aspects of hybrid immunity. In 2021, amid scarce vaccine supplies and a surge in cases, officials in the Canadian province of Quebec recommended a 16-week interval between first and second doses (since reduced to 8 weeks).

    A team co-led by Andrés Finzi, a virologist at the University of Montreal, Canada, found that people who received this regimen had SARS-CoV-2 antibody levels similar to those in people with hybrid immunity10. These antibodies could neutralize a swathe of SARS-CoV-2 variants — as well as the virus behind the 2002–4 SARS epidemic. “We are able to bring naive people to almost the same level as previously infected and vaccinated, which is our gold standard,” says Finzi.

    How ‘killer’ T cells could boost COVID immunity in face of new variants

    Understanding the mechanism behind hybrid immunity will be key to emulating it, say scientists. The latest studies focus on antibody responses made by B cells, and it’s likely that T-cell responses to vaccination and infection behave differently. Natural infection also triggers responses against viral proteins other than spike — the target of most vaccines. Nussenzweig wonders whether other factors unique to natural infection are crucial. During infection, hundreds of millions of viral particles populate the airways, encountering immune cells that regularly visit nearby lymph nodes, where memory B cells mature. Viral proteins stick around in the gut of some people months after recovery, and it’s possible that this persistence helps B cells hone their responses to SARS-CoV-2.

    Researchers say that it is also important to determine the real-world effects of hybrid immunity. A study from Qatar suggests that people who get Pfizer-BioNTech’s mRNA vaccine after infection are less likely to test positive for COVID-19 than are individuals with no history of infection11. Hybrid immunity might also be responsible for falling case numbers across South America, says Gonzalo Bello Bentancor, a virologist at the Oswaldo Cruz Institute in Rio de Janeiro. Many South American countries experienced very high infection rates earlier in the pandemic, but have now vaccinated a large proportion of their populations. It’s possible that hybrid immunity is better than the immunity from vaccination alone at blocking transmission, says Bello Bentancor.

    As breakthrough infections caused by the Delta variant stack up, researchers including Nussenzweig are keen to study the immunity in people who were infected after their COVID-19 vaccinations, rather than before. An individual’s first exposure to influenza virus biases their responses to subsequent exposures and vaccinations — a phenomenon called original antigenic sin — and researchers want to know if this occurs with SARS-CoV-2.

    Those studying hybrid immunity stress that — whatever the potential benefits — the risks of a SARS-CoV-2 infection mean that it should be avoided. “We are not inviting anybody to get infected and then vaccinated to have a good response,” says Finzi. “Because some of them will not make it through.”

  160. 3b says:

    Jcer: I am not comparing NYC to Nashville, simply saying Nashville is a fun town, and certainly a lot less pretentious then NYC. NY is the financial capital , but it is dispersing to other areas , this was occurring before the pandemic.

    Di Blasio has destroyed NYC; it will take time to recover, assuming it does. However, it will in my opinion have to reinvent itself and become more competitive. The pandemic and WFH has changed everything. Companies have options now and are not held hostage to commercial real estate companies, and politicians like Di Blasio. As for NYC coming back, I think we have bigger problems like does this country survive in its present form. As for Cathie and her NYC comment, it was just so ironic since Pumps is such a big fan of hers, and she cannot be doubted on anything she says unless it’s something negative about NYC. It’s just too funny.

  161. Out of the Ashes goes the Phoenix says:

    To Lib,
    A thanks to you for your invite the other day. A great group you have there.

    It was a pleasure to participate.

  162. JCer says:

    3b yes and no, the dispersion just mean more bifurcation, the middle class is all but disappearing from this region. Those jobs are the ones disappearing, being shipped to value locations or done remote. The high end remains, I actually think that has been the fallacy all along in the Pumpian logic. He sees the whole region becoming rich where I see it devolving even further into massive wealth and poor people, the rich need labor but the region is simply not economically competitive for commodity work, so a lot of the middle class and upper middle class jobs are going up in smoke.

  163. Hold my beer says:

    This is a very affluent town. Like Short hill-milburn level money


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