Quits skyrocket

From CNN:

A record number of Americans quit their jobs in September

A record 4.4 million Americans quit their jobs in September as the sheer volume of available jobs is empowering workers to have their pick.

Workers are quitting in search for better pay or better jobs, representing a fundamental shift in America’s labor market.”

Labor now has the initiative, and the era of paying individuals less than a livable wage has ended,” said Joseph Brusuelas, chief economist at RSM US. “This strongly suggests that rising wages are going to be part and parcel of the economic landscape going forward.”

The nation had 10.4 million open jobs that month as the worker shortage crisis continues, data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics showed Friday. It was a modest decrease from the 10.6 million open jobs in August.

Jobs particularly increased in the health care and sector and in state and local government.

“The Delta variant is still visible in the September JOLTS report,” said Nick Bunker, director of economic research at the Indeed Hiring Lab, in emailed comments. But he noted “we do know from the October jobs report that the labor market did get on more stable ground.”

The slowing demand for workers in the leisure and hospitality industry was the cause of the modest decline in available jobs in September. 

“The pace of people quitting across the labor market is remarkable,” Bunker said, “but the concentration among a few sectors is eye-popping. Quits are up the most in sectors where most work is in-person or relatively low paying.”

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78 Responses to Quits skyrocket

  1. Juice Box says:


  2. BRT says:

    Youtube removed the dislike count from their videos. This is terrible as that ratio was crucial in being able to see whether a video was worth watching. Especially instructional videos. What is their motivation here?

  3. Juice Box says:

    Devil is in the data.

    Jolts data below.

    Finance and insurance (+61,000) quit working in finance and insurance. Generally high paying white collar jobs. Nobody wants to go back to the old paradigm of 5 days commuting into the office.


  4. Juice Box says:

    re: “What is their motivation here?”

    ?? = $$

  5. BRT says:

    Juice, that elmo vid yesterday was savage. Funniest part about it was elmo wasn’t wearing his mask over his nose.

  6. Fast Eddie says:

    There’s higher pay on lower end jobs which was really overdue. But, the cost of everything is skyrocketing so it’s a wash. Also, businesses, as predicted, are finding ways to reduce head count as more and more retail establishments are installing self-checkout. I find myself heading to these lanes in CVS, Shop Rite, etc. more and more now.

  7. Juice Box says:

    Youtube by far was the best acquisition ever, from it’s start in 2005 to it’s sale in 2006, it now generates 7 billion a quarter now that is equal to Netflix.

    Chad Hurley, Steve Chen and Jawed Karim sold it for 1.65 billion in Google stock. If they held onto the stock it would be worth more than 10 x that today. All three were disciples of Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, and Max Levchin from the Paypal Mafia. All three founders are pretty low profile on social media today.

    It’s too bad HBO and Mike Judge stopped the Silicon Valley sitcom. It really was funny how of it presented many of the absurd things that happened there over the last few decades.

  8. The Great Pumpkin says:

    My take. It’s just a huge reset on the labor market. Slowly everyone heard stories of workers getting what they want, and now everyone and their mother is acting on it.

    Big question. What’s the impact on the economy? What’s the impact on stock earnings? You have a ton of workers demanding to do less work and want more money for it. That has to damage the economy in some way.

    Juice Box says:
    November 13, 2021 at 8:41 am
    Devil is in the data.

    Jolts data below.

    Finance and insurance (+61,000) quit working in finance and insurance. Generally high paying white collar jobs. Nobody wants to go back to the old paradigm of 5 days commuting into the office.


  9. Phoenix says:

    You mean they want the same perks as union teachers?

    ” You have a ton of workers demanding to do less work and want more money for it. That has to damage the economy in some way.” #metooIwantgreatbenefitsweekendsandsummersoff

  10. Juice Box says:

    Pumps – re “now everyone and their mother is acting on it”

    Then join me on the dark side…and I will complete your training.

    Buy one share, call it a hedge it could be the summer of 2009 all over again.


  11. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Lol Mikey Likes It. I seriously might take up a position, just not yet.

  12. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Rather have the high 6 figure gig that goes into work maybe 2-3 days a week. Now, that’s the good life. Tech has it so good right now.

    Phoenix says:
    November 13, 2021 at 9:35 am
    You mean they want the same perks as union teachers?

    ” You have a ton of workers demanding to do less work and want more money for it. That has to damage the economy in some way.” #metooIwantgreatbenefitsweekendsandsummersoff

  13. The Great Pumpkin says:


    That 10 year chart on DRV says it all. It’s due to revert to the mean sooner than later.

  14. Phoenix says:

    You need a higher level of intelligence, drive, and perseverance to get that. And if you did, you would have had that job.

    “Rather have the high 6 figure gig that goes into work maybe 2-3 days a week. Now, that’s the good life. Tech has it so good right now.”

  15. Juice Box says:

    Pumps it shorts the MSCI US IMI Real Estate 25/50 Index

    That is made up of these stocks.

    PROLOGIS 6.77%
    EQUINIX 4.74%
    CBRE GROUP 2.21%

    Again warning here there is volatility decay in short ETFs as they use derivatives and other methods for leverage and have high expense ratios.

    Idea here is to buy it as cheap and very little as possible and if you are lucky it like hitting the pick five lottery.

    Other common real estate inverse ETFs are SRS and REK

    Not saying to buy any of these. My sole purpose is to explain how retail can actually make money on the downside. These are all short term not buy and hold investments, there is no guarantee they can even return money in the event there is a downturn in real estate. For example they list Equinix above a well known data center and hosting provider, that is not exactly office space for people.

  16. 3b says:

    Juice: Only 13 percent of NY office workers are expected to be back in the office full time by January 2022. Out with my Bronx crew last night, friend of mine works for BONy, been there for years, that company was adamant no WFH period. Long story short they have changed their mind and effective January they will be 2 days WFH and 3 in office, they will evaluate from there and are expected to increase the days of WFH. They spent the last two years restacking employees into one building and have dumped a chunk of real estate already. My friend is senior management there , so he is intimately familiar with what’s going on. This was a company that previously said no WFH period, so major change on their part. There will be much more of this in 2022. There will be no going back.

  17. 3b says:

    Phoenix: Many teachers don’t want to work that hard, great pension and medical and summers off and we have to pay their pensions because it was promised to them. Nice that the government can promise other people’s money to public sector workers. Give them a 401k like the private sector.

  18. Fast Eddie says:


    My company is he11 bent on being back in the office eventually 5 days per week. I dread it now that I’ve had a taste of freedom. lol. Supposedly, we’re still in phase 1 which is voluntarily back in the office at our own discretion. Who knows when that “Phase 2” kicks in. Yesterday was a 12 hour work day for me. Not every day is like that but what these “mandatory” back to the office edicts do is cut the work day because of commute time. They save on real estate and oodles of other resources so I’m not sure what the benefit is anymore to be in the office more than two days per week. I thought I missed the comraderies of being with colleagues. I don’t. My own office and laptop is all I need.

  19. Juice Box says:

    It’s not just here. Tata one of the biggest employers out there in India says only 5 per cent employees are working from the office right now.

    They are slow walking it for sure their new hybrid 25/25 model is to try and get 25% of the employees back into the office by the year 2025!!!!!


  20. 3b says:

    Fast: I don t mind the 12 hours days at home when I have to do them at home. I also don’t mind banging out a few hours on a rainy Sunday. It frees me up to do other things during the week. We have various projects assignments that have deadlines so I know exactly what I have to do. Not having to do the soul sucking commute is huge. People that work in the corporate sector understand that.

    As for your company, they may come around as BONY is starting to. The whole comrades thing is over rated, and does not reflect day to day reality. I have a team all over the country, and we are far more effective over Zoom then doing old school conference calls. I think many of these companies want people back because what do we do with all this real estate? But looking forward many of them too will adapt some form of WFH. As for managers are better able to monitor employees in the office then at home, that’s nonsense too. They are not standing over their employees shoulders watching them work. You can goof off in the office too. In the end if you are not doing your job and delivering, you will be let go.

  21. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Goldman just figured out why the labor shortage will last for a long time: 60% of the missing workers retired, many for good


  22. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Going all in on a short term trend. Do you really believe offices will be replaced by at home workers long term?

    Autonomous driving is coming. It’s going to make commutes easy and enjoyable. No more traffic, no more accidents.

  23. No One says:

    Youtube will become a “safe space” where only youtube experts trained in CRT may decide what material gets disliked, pulled or viewed or compensated. Probably have AI censoring comments as well.

  24. No One says:

    I’d like to see how your ai self driving car does driving from NJ into Manhattan at rush hour. 500 cars will cut in front of the gap it leaves.

  25. RentL0rd says:

    I called up a guy to fill a pretty well paying position. His response – “I’m doing pretty well with the stock market and not looking to work”

  26. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Leverage is all on the worker. Prob best time ever to be a worker in America. Bad time for consumer and business.

    “The Great Resignation appears to be getting worse. In September, 4.4 million people quit their jobs, a record high, the Labor Department reported Friday.
    September’s quit rate rose to 3% from its high of 2.9% the previous month, when about 4.3 million people left their jobs. By the end of September, 10.4 million jobs remained open.

    The food service and retail industries are shedding workers at the highest rates. A total of 863,000 workers in food service and 685,000 in retail left their jobs in September, at rates of 6.6% and 4.4%, respectively. Meanwhile, 987,000 left hospitality, another 984,000 left trade, transportation, and utilities industries, and 589,000 left health care.”


  27. The Great Pumpkin says:


  28. Phoenix says:

    Haven’t been to a live concert in a while, things seem to have changed a bit. Does this constitute water boarding? NSFW or almost anywhere else, except live on stage.


  29. RentL0rd says:

    Remember Phoenix, anyone who shares cheap publicity stunts online is as much a sucker as the fan who got urine boarded on stage.

  30. 3b says:

    Pumps : I don’t know how many times it needs to be driven into your thick skull. WFH is not a short term trend, simply because you don’t like it as it may impact your household income and your real estate. It’s where corporate America is heading part of your destructive technology as you are always prattling on about . And yes ultimately at some point offices will be like the horse and buggy. Just wait until you see what’s coming next year.

  31. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Yea, in a few years, all the offices will be gone and everyone will be working from home. Lmao

  32. 3b says:

    Pumps: Did I say in a few years? No I did not. It’s where it’s going pumps much as you hate it. Like I said wait until you see what’s coming next year.

  33. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Again, when the pandemic ends, and businesses go to full in person, they will destroy the remote based competition. Until you can prove to me that remote work is a business advantage in comparison to in person, I will not agree with you. Sure, it’s a great convenience to the worker, which works when there is a labor shortage, but it is not an advantage for the business. They will always be better with their workers in a controlled environment working together in person.

  34. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I challenge you to help someone build something (any product that has to be bought and built) over zoom as opposed to in person. Good f’ing luck on the remote option being superior to the in person model.

  35. Hold my beer says:

    My favorite antihero finally got evicted. Made only his first mtg payment and then managed to squat for 23 years.


  36. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And again, I know most workers will want to sit home…that they think it’s better. Ask my students the same thing; they will tell you how much better they enjoy remote. Why? Should we make schools remote because the students like it better?

  37. 3b says:

    Pumps: And you know this how?? You don’t? Period. You went from the post office to the classroom. You don’t have a fecking clue. I love how your Zen peace and calm goes out the window replaced by your anger. You are always going on about how we don’t know anything about teaching or what you go through. Yet, you feel confident to comment on what we do in corporate America, having never been in the corporate world. Self awareness is sorely lacking in you. But in the end it’s all because WFH you feel threatens you personally. The world is changing, best you get on board and stop howling against the moon.

  38. 3b says:

    Pumps: To your other point it’s already been proven to be a business advantage , not that you would know anything about business, you went from postal clerk to teacher.

  39. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How is it an advantage for the business? Have these remote businesses been put up against full in person businesses? No.

    Right now, there is a labor shortage. Businesses are going WFH, not because it’s a business advantage, but because workers had a taste of it, and don’t want to go back. So businesses are adjusting not because they want to, but because they have to. They are dealing with a major labor shortage, so they are doing what they have to do to survive. This will not last, and when the labor shortage is no longer a shortage, but a glut, then businesses will strike and require in person under their terms.

    How long this takes to play out? No clue, but that’s how it will play out.

  40. Juice Box says:

    re: “there is a labor shortage”

    I disagree, we have been flooding the country with excess legal and illegal labor for decades now and have pushed down wages. The pandemic was just the match that needed to be lit to force some changes. The new inflation is just that. Take a look at the quits report. Transportation, warehousing, and utilities are showing low %. That is because wages are increasing.

    How will it play out?

    Take a look at England, as labor is more organized there than here and since their exit from the EU they cannot import cheap labor anymore.

    Tom @thelorryist
    I arrived to work today to discover a £7 per hour pay rise. A 40% increase… almost overnight.

    There are no drivers, things are about to get a bit tasty.

    Completely unsustainable, of course, so guess what happens to prices next?

    All your shit comes by lorry. All of it.

  41. 3b says:

    Pumps: Your idiocy knows no bounds! Go back and read that ridiculous post of yours. Again you don’t have a clue, and absolutely nothing to back that non- sensical post of yours. You hate WFH because it may negatively impact your household income

  42. Phoenix says:


    “A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”


  43. Phoenix says:

    Here is a better view since you seem interested- I’ve already been pissed on plenty in my life, but I get paid for it.


  44. Ex says:

    WFH is a game changer for knowledge workers & talented people who can now wfh.
    Those who thrive in the wfh environment and there are millions, now see it as a differentiator among firms who offer wfh and those calling their minions back to
    The Office.

  45. The Great Pumpkin says:


    It’s the labor market. That’s the only reason this is happening.

    Maybe, it’s a stroke of luck for labor, and it sticks. I highly doubt it long term.

  46. Phoenix says:

    “WFH is a game changer for knowledge workers & talented people who can now wfh.”

    Oh yeah, it will be, when people like those from Google were given a pay cut in order to work from home, get disgruntled, and release some source code, inside information, corporate secrets or whatever it takes to bring Goliath back down to earth.

    You hack into some of these “Meetings” of high level people and in an instant so much is going to be taken. I’d wager a bet it’s happening right now.

    America’s IT security has more holes in it than all the cheese in Switzerland. Add some disgruntled workers in there and it’s off to the races.

    Carlin would call it entertainment. I agree. Sounds like fun!

  47. The Great Pumpkin says:

    In her 39 years booking Santas for holiday events, Susen Mesco says she hasn’t had a year like this one.


  48. The Great Pumpkin says:


    You nail it. Wfh works for the status quo; give a to do list. When it comes to innovation, how do you protect said investment?

    Again, controlled environment is optimal.

  49. Phoenix says:

    For once I agree with you. Penny wise, pound foolish, but hey look what happened to Boeing and it’s jets.

    They saved a buck didn’t they. And these same “work from home” people wouldn’t want their architect or designer to do that either. Bet they don’t think a “virtual visit” is always better than a finger up the you know what.

    Sometimes you just have to show up. WFH can be good- but like everything else, in moderation.

  50. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Individual rights come with a cost, and this is it. It gives a voice to the crazies.

    “Angry, violent, toxic: How extremists are drowning out local California governments”


  51. Bystander says:

    Goldman discovered it, dummy? I posted that 8 months ago and again last month. The RE and stock bubble has created a mass amount of retirements as well as amateur day traders who think can’t lose (and they won’t bc of Powell put).

    I probably only poster here who tells the war stories from job front. Here is the labor shortage – Java developers and people that have to physically deliver goods/food/drugs so truck drivers, med techs, nurses, waiters, and all manual labor. They are seeing a big bump. Sh&t, I had talk with kid at convenience store telling me who could get $18/hr just by leaving, probably $25/hr if he pushed hard with another company.

    Now, all other areas not listed above are seeing more activity but companies are slow, non-committal and still trying to get labor cheaply. You will never get reply back from entering resume into portal bc the screening rules are so restrictive that never get to people. I update LinkedIn everyday and it is ebb and flow. For two weeks, I update profile and got no contacts. Last week, I finally got 4 on Thurs and Fri. Of course all garbage recruiters trying to pay 65-80/hr. I am starting to see more $100 hr plus but those were easy salaries 10 years ago in banking. A month ago, I had interview for $200k year job in compliance IT PM at Scotia Bank. I was a great candidate but never heard back. Last week, one recruiter had a job in compliance IT paying $80/hr and I asked where and he said Scotia Bank? Conindence, no f-in way. Exec boards will do everything in power to avoid paying more in labor. I see it at my IB, same thing..”oh we need people, we are desperate go hire”. Candidate wants 40% more than band and has another offer. Mgt answer “oh we won’t pay that. Can’t you find internal candidates?” My IB has campaigns all over, basically begging people to move internally. Easier to control costs and 2% them to death. You would be a fool to move internally but people are so scared of change. Greedy execs count on that.

  52. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Could we already be seeing the divide? Remote pay going down, while in person going up?

    “I probably only poster here who tells the war stories from job front. Here is the labor shortage – Java developers and people that have to physically deliver goods/food/drugs so truck drivers, med techs, nurses, waiters, and all manual labor. They are seeing a big bump. Sh&t, I had talk with kid at convenience store telling me who could get $18/hr just by leaving, probably $25/hr if he pushed hard with another company.”

  53. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Nice call.

    Bystander says:
    November 14, 2021 at 9:20 am
    Goldman discovered it, dummy? I posted that 8 months ago and again last month. The RE and stock bubble has created a mass amount of retirements as well as amateur day traders who think can’t lose (and they won’t bc of Powell put).

  54. Bystander says:

    “Could we already be seeing the divide? Remote pay going down, while in person going up?”

    That is the dynamic I would expect but I had contacts with BNP, SocGen, Lazard and all of them promoted role as hybrid then job details said 3 days a week in NY office. F-off that is not hybrid. People were getting that before pandemic. My guess is that execs will go with WFH bc it will be cheaper in long run. Most jobs don’t need in person 3 days a week. It is desperate play by big egos who think they need to see their minions toiling. NYC Corp RE will be less precious going forward.

  55. Phoenix says:

    Is this enough to cover all of the Covid hospital bills? Is private pay going to make up the difference, or is it a “kick the can” scenario like the taxes again?

    Medicare premiums are set to jump more than $20 per month: Officials blame new Alzheimer’s drug as seniors brace for rising costs and inflation
    Medicare Part B premiums will go up from $148.50 to $170.10 in 2022

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  57. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lmao…musk trolling bernie.

    “Want me to sell more stock, Bernie? Just say the word …”


  58. 3b says:

    Bystander: Exactly right. NYC real estate will take a hit.

  59. 3b says:

    Pumps : No we are not already seeing a divide, what we are seeing is that WFH is continuing to increase and that’s the way corporate America is going . Those of us in corporate America understand that.

  60. 3b says:

    Pumps: Controlled environment, to do it, WFH in moderation is good ,blah, blah, please explain to the class how you know anything about corporate America or what we do?

  61. 3b says:

    Phoenix: You are right, the only correct move is not to play, but pumps is insufferable. He dominates this blog day in and day out. Fancies himself an Oracle on every topic, including WFH and has absolutely no basis to have an opinion on it. All because he is afraid it will hurt his house hold income and he might have to get a second job as he won’t be able to post here all day Monday through Friday instead of teaching his students.

  62. Libturd says:

    Pumps (and Phoenix) on WFH.

    My answer is not in absolutes. Keep this in mind. WFH is here to stay for those who are self motivated. Why? Because ultimately, we are all judged and paid by what we bring to the company. The location we generate this value from and the time of the day in which this value is generated does not matter.

    Trying to put biases aside, I learned well ahead of this pandemic the value of WFH to the employee (when my son was diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor), which in turn resulted in my greater ability to return value to the company though I worked dramatically less hours during the prime time (day shift). So much so that not only was I able to convince my supervisor of the benefit to the company (and he was adamantly opposed for the same reason as you two are), but it so improved my uber process analyst’s quality of life that she somehow cranked up her value to insanity. Once my manager (two down from CEO for reference) witnessed this result, he allowed me to bring home two more of my direct reports. The result? We increased our output by around 30%. This was so convincing that my supervisor decided to work from home as well. Keep in mind, this man supervises about fifteen mid level managers like me. I point this out because you would think he would not be able to do his job remotely with such a large team of higher level direct reports.

    Well the pandemic hits and I look brilliant for already having my whole team (except for one I did not trust without direct supervision) setup at home as well as getting my manager to work from home. Of course, the whole company except for manufacturing shifts to WFH and lo and behold, the result? We doubled our revenue and improved our bottom line by nearly 50%. Why? How? Well from my limited perspective, there are a lot of reasons. The greatest gains come from exchanging your commuting time for work time. Those who don’t punch a clock will have difficulty understanding this. For those on salary have always worked overtime without pay. We get paid the same whether we work 40 hours or 80 hour per week. My 14 mile commute used to start at 7:20am and I would get home around 7pm. This was to make sure I would work an 8 hour day. Contrast this with my workday today. I wake up at 7:05am, I make breakfast for the entire family and eat it with them and drive my older son to high school and get home by 8am. I work until 1:45pm and spend until 3:15ish driving my younger son and older son home from school. Then I work until about 5:30. I then make dinner and we all eat together. The company gets the same 8 hours from me that they used to. But the miserable commute left me exhausted and unhappy. Especially considering the cost of it that I no longer have to pay. If my workload is larger than eight hours, I’m happy to go back online at 7:30pm through whenever since I am so much happier to have been able to spend that much more of my day with my children. In the old scenario, I would het home at 6:45 (when NJ Transit didn’t fukc things up) exhausted and would just want to nap when my kids would finally get a chance to play with me. Heck, my older son used to take the jitney to school and would often walk the 2 miles home. Do you realize how much better WFH is for him? Keep in mind (Gator has similar gains from WFH). But this is just the example of how my quality of life improves. How WFH help my companies productivity?

    A happy energized worker is way more productive than a zombie commuter. I would attribute a 20% gain from this alone. The second greatest factor is the end of small talk. I would bet that I lost somewhere between one to two hours of my workday listening to coworker’s non work-related interest stories. You know, sports, family, general watercooler crapola. These are really the big two. The third is the flexibility to work on priorities in the order which they deserve. To often in the office, you are drawn off of your priorities to help others with less important tasks because you simply can’t say, “no,” since you want to maintain your reputation. When you WFH, those who need assistance will go through the proper channels since it’s now no easier to go to me. Fourth, online collaborations are much more focused due to the lack of interruptions from sidebars. Breakout rooms, online white boards, the fact the meeting is recorded as well as the preparatory work the project manager must perform ahead of the meeting (agenda development, visual aids, etc.,) results in a much higher level of productivity. Finally, at times when the meetings to pertain to you, you are still at your desk which means you can multi task. In the office conference room this is not possible.

    Sadly, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many savings for both the employee and the employer. And you can’t put a price on the happiness of the worker.

    Really you two. No offense meant, but until you work in the corporate office, you really can’t speak to it. I am unique in that I’ve been doing this for five years already. Unlike Grim, I work for a large 15 billion dollar corporation. If you are self employed, it’s an absolute no-brainer. But I firmly believe it’s a no-brainer as well for the non-manufacturing corporate worker as well.

    The truth is, it could have worked for schools if the teachers and the students were adequately equipped to make it happen. I don’t blame the teachers though. They are out of touch (and always have been) with what is currently occurring in the workforce. In the corporate world, we have high-end powerful desktops that are infinitely more powerful than chromebooks. Teams is significantly more powerful and flexible than Zoom. But schools bought Zoom, so they are stuck with it. Finally, since my team does a lot of production work, we all have reliable high-speed connections and back up cellular hot-spots paid by the company. There is just no comparison.

  63. Libturd says:

    And with ridership in the toilet, NJ Transit adds 36 new trains to the schedule of which only 6 go to PSNY.

    Hoboken is hot, hot, hot!

    In other news, on time performance is averaging about 90%. During the terrible days of 2017 and 2018, it was closer to 88%. Heck of a job Murphy! How much more are we spending for trains running at 40% capacity. And now we are adding more?

    Really, I can’t wait to move.

  64. 3b says:

    Lib: Excellent analysis on WFH, and all the benefits that you outlined so well. I don’t have the patience to lay it out like that as you did for that fool. One point however, I can’t speak for Phoenix, but for Pumps his reason for hating WFH is because he is concerned it will affect his household income.

  65. RentL0rd says:

    Regarding WFH, let’s not forget the elepha.. err.. Virus in the room. The reason WFH is given as an option is because COVID-19 is still with us. UK’s cases are raising and may be an indication that we may see an uptick back in cases and hospitalizations come 2022. Employers are just hedging against potential lawsuits and letting workers have their way.

    Maybe in 2023, COVID will be minimal (but not gone) and so will WFH.

  66. 3b says:

    Rent: You are mistaken if you believe WFH will be minimal it’s rapidly going the other way. Wait until you see what’s coming next year.

  67. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How will it impact my household income? You are lost in the woods. If my wife is forced to get another job, she will make way more money. She has been with them 15 years. She stays with them out of personal convenience, not because she needs more money. Jumping ship is how you get big raises in this economy. Wake up.

    And the price of nyc is not going down….wake up and smell the coffee.

    You have been alive longer than me, yet still fail to realize extremes don’t stick and revert back to the mean. WFH is an extreme trend brought about by need, not bevause of a competitive business advantage. You need to be in person to be most efficient. We are human beings, and by our very nature, do better communicating when we are in person as opposed to digital. It’s an evolutionary fact. Wake up!

    “but for Pumps his reason for hating WFH is because he is concerned it will affect his household income.”

  68. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Innovation is moving rapidly, and an insane pace; you think this innovation will be fostered locked in our houses instead of working in optimized conditions created by said business? No way, no how.

    3b says:
    November 14, 2021 at 5:59 pm
    Rent: You are mistaken if you believe WFH will be minimal it’s rapidly going the other way. Wait until you see what’s coming next year.

  69. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The nail in the coffin for WFH. You lose control of ideas and products. Being in a controlled environment, ideas and blueprints for products are not easily stolen. On a WFH platform, you better hope you are working with generic ideas as opposed to innovative ideas.

  70. RentL0rd says:

    I understand all you worker bees saying WFH is the next best thing after sliced bread. But what’s in it for the employer?

    Productivity? – Employers will figure out a way to make you just as much or more Productive within their building as yours.

    Innovation? – You know who wins. The only innovation WFH offers is a way for the employee to cheat.

    Risk? – this is the unknown. Maybe there will be COVID-22, then bets are off and the employee wins.

    Team play? – You know this was always a joke to begin with. At least in the US. There’s a real team spirit in other countries (fyi, I have worked in europe and east asia and know what it’s like), not so much here.

    3b, Pumps – what other factors can you think of?

  71. The Great Pumpkin says:


    I think the biggest factor that no one sees is long term. Is that workers will soon take for granted working from home. They will soon resort to finding shortcuts getting out of work instead of proving how productive they are so that they can work from home. That’s going to hurt productivity. Also, everyone focusing on their personal lives instead of the company is bound to take a toll on the company. It’s hard to put the company first in mind and action when you are working from your personal home; the distractions are endless.

  72. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Face it, if we all wanted to get out a highly productive product, would we want our money on a remote team or an in person team? Money talks, bs walks.

  73. 3b says:

    Pumps: Again commenting on corporate America and what we do , and absolutely no basis in fact for you to comment on . Zero experience and the only thing you know about an office is watching reruns of the Office. Postal clerk to so called teacher and the you deem yourself qualified to comment on what we do everyday. As for your household income of course it could suffer , hence your obsessive hatred of WFH. Keep howling at the moment on but working in an office is antiquated. You know destructive technology.

  74. 3b says:

    Rent: You are drinking the same kool aid as pumps. I guess WFH scares you too. Wait until you see what’s coming as we go forward.

  75. Phoenix says:

    I am not against working from home. Don’t have any skin in the game. But what I believe is that if a company thinks it’s a benefit to you versus them they will try to leverage that to get you for less money. It’s just the way it is. I’m not saying they will be able to do it but if they can they will

  76. 3b says:

    Phoenix: lots of ways to leverage one for less money WFH vs office does not really play into it in my view. If they really want to leverage then they can just send more and more jobs overseas which they can do regardless of WFH vs office. If they go they go that route then pumps will be even more worried as even less need for commercial real estate as the jobs won’t be here.

  77. Libturd says:

    Agreed. I don’t see how being in the office and shortening your work day (and making you miserable) provides the company any advantage. It’s actually a disadvantage in my opinion. I don’t have the time to list the costs involved in having office real estate besides the obvious rental of commercial space. Though, here are a few. The custodial staff, the facilities manager, the unsourced IT (which can now be outsourced), the paid lunches, the limos home for people working late. The paid dinners for people working late. The Rangers tickets, the office furniture, the office supplies, the catering of holiday parties, the reimbursement for parking (for some). Even hardware costs may go down as many employees bring their own. The list is endless and expensive for the employer. But Pumps doesn’t realize any of this because he has no experience with it.

    And again, the quality of life issue and quality of work produced are a dependent relationship with incredible power. As for distractions at home? Even when my kids were schooling remotely, it did not change a thing. We all wear headphones. And we all ate lunch together. Best of all, it was a much quicker lunch break than in Manhattan where the time it took to walk to wear you were going, then wait for your lunch to be prepared, then overspend paying for it and finally walking back to the office, was already longer than it takes for me to make a sandwich or microwave leftovers at home.

    For those who work with their hands on others or manufacturing, I get it. For everyone else, there is little to no reason to go back.

    If I think about how Pumps doesn’t understand it, it is because all he knows is start time and end time. What he ever does during his workday, has never been evaluated. That’s the power of a union. In real jobs, you are judged by your performance and value and paid accordingly. Not by what time you punch the clock or how many hours you can manage to waste time doing as little as possible.

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