Does expungement create labor market flexibility and economic benefit?

I’ve got to imagine nearly a million people in this region essentially locked out of labor market flexibility, now being able to seek out new/better jobs, etc – will have a significant benefit on local market economics and poverty rate. Thoughts?

From Gothamist:

NY & NJ Will Erase Nearly A Million Marijuana Convictions. For Some, Clearing Their Record Gets Tricky

Leon Sarvis was in college in 2008, hoping to become a gym teacher, when he said he was convicted in a New Jersey court on charges of marijuana possession and drug distribution for having a scale. Sentenced to two years of probation, he said he was fired from his job working with the disabled. And he gave up on the bachelor’s degree because he knew it wouldn’t help him get a job due to his criminal record.

“That obviously messed everything up,” Sarvis said. “So I had to change focus elsewhere. I drive trucks now—that’s a big field for a lot of people who have convictions.”

Until recently, marijuana convictions in New Jersey and New York posed barriers to jobs, education, even custody of children, particularly for Black residents, who’ve faced disproportionate police enforcement in the war on drugs. But since both states passed legislation legalizing the use of cannabis earlier this year, those convicted on marijuana charges now have an opportunity to wipe their records clean.

In New York, which legalized cannabis in September, 198,000 records have already been expunged and another 203,000 convictions are in the process of being expunged and no longer show up in background checks, according to state data.

“When completed, the actions of these measures will have expunged the records of over 400,000 New Yorkers, a staggering reminder of the impact that cannabis prohibition had on so many,” Alexander said.

In New Jersey, which legalized the drug in February, the state Supreme Court’s automated system has expunged, dismissed, or vacated 362,000 marijuana and hashish cases, including possession of marijuana and hashish, and distribution of less than an ounce of marijuana or five grams of hashish. Convictions for possession of drug paraphernalia and being under the influence of a controlled substance are also being removed from records if the cases are linked to marijuana offenses. And at least 1,200 people in the state have been released from probation.

In total, more than 750,000 marijuana convictions are being expunged in both states, wiped out as if the arrests never happened. But some charges may be more complicated to untangle. In New Jersey, for example, if someone faced a marijuana offense along with a non-drug charge, such as assault, the entirety of their criminal record will still be intact, requiring judicial review before such cases can be removed.

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

88 Responses to Does expungement create labor market flexibility and economic benefit?

  1. Juice Box says:


  2. Juice Box says:

    Employment is a significant factor in reducing recidivism to criminal activity.

    However there are something like 80 million people with criminal records in the USA, why should only the pot heads get an expungement?

    We hired a criminal once, as a project manager, a felon some nasty crimes too. He passed the background check, seems the firm we were using at the time did not search effectively. Turns out he was extremely hard working and organized, very valued employee at the time. However once they found out who he really was (he altered his name to escape google searches) they immediately fired him.His boss told me he would need to hire several people to replace him as he was that good.

  3. grim says:

    In the context of the great resignation, this provides even more potential mobility to NJ’s labor force. Suspect many would look for new employment soon after being informed.

  4. Juice Box says:

    Goota love Google.

    Leon was dealing Crack and Heroin too?? Nah that ain’t my stuff man…I was just an innocent bystander.

    Leon also got a PPP loan.

    Leon would make a great gym teacher.

  5. Juice Box says:

    BTW – This great experiment with no deterrence to drug use, where cops cannot even stop children on the street for smoking.

    no arrest, prison time, or criminal record = no deterrent

    Will we see down the road an increase in deaths due to overdose?

    Fact is people who are addicted to marijuana are three times more likely to be addicted to heroin. Fact is marijuana use increases the risk of heroin use. A better drug policy would be one that actively discourages marijuana use as well as other recreational drug use, especially for children.

    Will there be a lasting negative effects on future generations? Only time will tell.

  6. Libturd says:


    There most certainly will be. It’s the same with casin0s and online gambling. But as long as the government gets their piece of the action, so be it if one in thirty families are going to be ruined due to someone’s gambling addiction. The important thing here is the tax revenue. Future gambling and dope addicts, thank you!

  7. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lib, this sounds like the crashing of the economy. What will all these people do for work or their small business? Remember, those savings have a cost…yes, some win, but others get totally destroyed.

    “Though, here are a few. The custodial staff, the facilities manager, the unsourced IT (which can now be outsourced), the paid lunches, the limos home for people working late. The paid dinners for people working late. The Rangers tickets, the office furniture, the office supplies, the catering of holiday parties, the reimbursement for parking (for some). Even hardware costs may go down as many employees bring their own. The list is endless and expensive for the employer. But Pumps doesn’t realize any of this because he has no experience with it.”

  8. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Honestly, I don’t care what happens. I just don’t see a world without in person collaboration. I believe it’s a short term trend reflective of the pandemic. Will it stick, some of it might, but I do not think for one second that in person collaboration is finished. All white collar is not working out of the house or we are f/ed in terms of innovation long term. See what happens, but my money is on offices living to see another day.

  9. 3b says:

    Pumps: You do care what happens, and we will leave it at that.

  10. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “The com­pa­ny’s prior of­fer in­cluded an im­me­di­ate 10% in­crease in hourly pay, plus an $8,500 bonus for each worker. Ad­di­tional 5% pay raises were pro­posed for 2023 and 2025, and lump sum bonuses in three other years. Deere had said that of­fer rep­re­sented a $3.5 bil­lion in­vest­ment in com­pen­sa­tion for the work­ers.”

  11. BRT says:

    Juice don’t worry, they banned flavored vapes. That should solve the problem.

  12. Old realtor says:


    Are you in favor of arresting underage marijuana users? Do you think a criminal record for marijuana offenses that affects someone for a lifetime is appropriate? Not sure exactly where you are coming from.

    Lifetime penalties for minor, victimless crimes are excessive and inappropriate. Where is the discussion of mental illness and treatment regarding drugs, alcohol, gambling and other similar issues?

  13. Juice Box says:

    Did they remove the penalty for the cops? As far as the law was written it makes officers susceptible to the third degree charge if they detain any young person too long or illegally search them for weed and alcohol.

    You think cops are going to get involved? It’s hands off now, just take a look at what happened down at the beach all summer with the pop up parties.

  14. Libturd says:

    “without in person collaboration.”

    Tell us Pumps. What is the difference between in-person collaboration and remote collaboration? What are the advantages? I mainly see disadvantages. For example, having to deal with people’s bad breath and body odor (and other questionable hygiene habits). The only time I ever pick up a pen is to write a check. And who is this check going to? Always a person or organization that is stubbornly clinging to the past. The amount of work required to process a check, compared with an ACH transaction is insane. You see, nearly everything done today is through a digital interface. It’s hard for you to see it since our constant, decade behind the times educational system is still teaching cursive, forcing memorization of history and the table of elements as if Google did not exist. In the real world, handwriting is a detriment to technology. It must first be digitized to even begin to use tools to process the information. So why bother with it anymore. Kids should start on keyboards and leave pens and pencils for art classes. Again, what does in-person collaboration foster? I mean besides the potential for harassment and so many other possible negatives.

    It’s so strange to see someone who first joined us touting AI and self driving cars be so against WFH when it embodies the similar high technology.

  15. Old realtor says:

    What you are referring to never became law.

  16. Juice Box says:

    No pothead like facts, but look the marijuana experience leads to harder drugs for some people. I won’t bother however as there is no arguing with the cult.

  17. Libturd says:

    Weed should not be criminalized any more than alcohol. I don’t remember them locking most alcoholic bums up. Why would they do the same for a chronic drug user?

    As for the gateway argument, it definitely is. Or was for me. Fortunately, my experimental phase in life did not end up with addiction. For many, it does. Same with booze.

  18. Old realtor says:

    I graduated high school in 1978. Got caught with marijuana on at least 5 occasions that I recall by law enforcement during the 70’s and early 1980s. Never arrested once. Many people I know had similar experiences. Do you think anyone’s life trajectory would have been improved by a marijuana arrest in their youth? Cops never took my information to contact my parents about any of these incidents. If they had, would I be a better citizen?

  19. Fast Eddie says:

    I don’t know anyone who got addicted to pot or went on to bigger and heavy stuff because of pot. And goodness knows, I smoked a ton a weed way back when and it lead to nothing. Anything else I wanted to try was because I just wanted to try it.

  20. Libturd says:

    So is everyone ready for what will most likely be our largest Covid surge yet?

    At best, 10% of the population has boosters. Our guard is completely down. Don’t kid yourself to think otherwise. We are dealing with the D variant for the first time in peak season. Worse yet, the effectiveness of our vaccines will be weaker than most of the rest of the world as we got them earlier (unless you got boosted). So is it likely to kill you? Not if you are not vaccinated. Are you likely to get it during this wave? Absolutely.

    Not fear mongering here. Just telling you to get your booster or vaccine for your own good and for the good of those around you. And wear masks when you should. Sadly, my family still does for own protection and yours. Shame everyone is so stupid. And it’s nearly everyone these days.

    It’s gonna be ugly.

    Oh, and in countries with low vaccination rates or lack of boosters, they were forced to shutdown. it’s going to happen here again for sure.

    Wish people would just get the shots and boosters. It would help. But we are idiots.

  21. Libturd says:


    I smoked a lot of pot. Trust me.

    But my question is this. Would you have tried the other sh1t if you didn’t first smoke pot? I don’t think I would have. I’m fairly certain of that. Well, the other sh1t today is friggin scary. Especially the fake Chinese dope. You can die the first time. And if you are lucky enough to get the real stuff, get addicted by the third try. The numbers are THAT bad. If the odds were that bad in the 70s and 80s, I would have never experimented even after smoking pot. But kids don’t know these odds. Pot, IMO, will help get them there unfortunately. Especially decriminalized pot.

  22. Fast Eddie says:


    Would you have tried the other sh1t if you didn’t first smoke pot?

    Plausible… maybe curiosity lead to trying some other stuff but it wasn’t because of weed. Perhaps it was the comfort level of smoking weed that lead to trying other stuff. Maybe it was the crowd I was hanging with… it was either with other musicians or borderline criminals. Lol!

  23. joyce says:

    If only this were the case and if only similar penalties for cops breaking other laws… like regular people.

    Juice Box says:
    November 15, 2021 at 9:29 am
    Did they remove the penalty for the cops? As far as the law was written it makes officers susceptible to the third degree charge if they detain any young person too long or illegally search them for weed and alcohol.

  24. Phoenix says:

    Agree Joyce.

  25. The Great Pumpkin says:


    You make valid points, and I’m just trying to analyze the situation.

    The genius of the human species is collaboration. Will technology slowly kill that off? It can be happening already.

    Think it’s better for your child to play in person, or remotely on roblox? Is it healthy for your social life to revolve around social media, or is it beneficial to have in person relationships? These are big questions facing our species. The correct answer? I do not know. Maybe it’s better that we lock out the real world and live our life through screens. Again, I don’t know the answer. I have my positions on it, but I do not know if I’m correct.

    Maybe I’m just getting old, and don’t understand it at the level of the current generation growing up in it. Going to work in person….okay, boomer. Might just sum it up.

  26. Bystander says:

    Exactly Ed. I have never been more than occasional user, maybe more frequent in my youth. It is show here or there, maybe cool IMAX movie. I could never enjoy it everyday and I need no responsibility at that time. otherwise my mind spins. Alcohol is by far the worst transition drug of all. Inhibitions lost, false sense of invincibility. Any bad decision I made was bc of alcohol, not weed even if I combined two. Weed makes you more sensitive to surroundings – music a little better, visuals perk up, sun feels warmer, girl look nicer (hah) is 2 hours and then you get hungry. BFD. Now, this sh&t with horse tranquilizers being mixed in or PCP, that is not weed. I think a lot of people don’t understand this. No one should be in jail for weed. Ask doctors, cops, even bouncers who they would rather deal with..a person blasted on alcohol or a someone that just smoked a joint? It is not even close.

  27. The Great Pumpkin says:

    But I do question what we have done to the current generations….they have no people skills. They can only take information in short bursts. They are scared to leave their house. They are scared to order food in person, they rather do it through an app. So what is the long term consequences of all this? Is it a good thing or bad thing? Should we promote a society that basically is not going to leave their house and live/work through a screen? I don’t know the answer to any of this.

  28. Phoenix says:

    Prison is big business. And this is what happens when you combine that with children:

    The “kids for cash” scandal centered on judicial kickbacks to two judges at the Luzerne County Court of Common Pleas in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.[1] In 2008, judges Michael Conahan and Mark Ciavarella were convicted of accepting money in return for imposing harsh adjudications on juveniles to increase occupancy at for-profit detention centers.[2]

    From 2003 to 2008, the Luzerne County judicial corruption scandal altered the lives of more than 2500 children and involved more than 6000 cases. Over 50 percent of the children who appeared before Ciavarella lacked legal representation; 60 percent of these children were removed from their homes.

    Hillary Transue, 14, created a fake, humorous Myspace page about her school’s vice principal.

    Justin Bodnar, 12, cursed at another student’s mother.

    Ed Kenzakoski, 17, did nothing at all.

    It didn’t matter.

    As we see in the documentary “Kids for Cash,” which opens Friday, all three Luzerne County, Pa. teens met the same fate for their minor infractions.

    They were hauled into court with their parents, sometimes ­after being persuaded — coerced, according to at least one parent — by police to waive their right to ­legal counsel.

    They were brought before Judge Mark A. Ciavarella and, without warning or the chance to offer a defense, found themselves pronounced guilty, shackled and sentenced to months of detention in a cockroach-infested jail.

    They were trapped in the juvenile justice system for years, robbing most of them of their entire high-school experience.

    “My kid’s not here anymore! He’s dead! Because of him!” she screamed, pointing at Ciavarella as news cameras rolled. “He ruined my f—ing life!!! Go to hell, and rot there forever! You know what he told everybody in court — [the kids] need to be held accountable for their actions! You need to be!”

    At the end of “Kids for Cash,” directed by Robert May, information flashes across the screen saying: “Two million children are arrested every year in the US, 95% for non-violent crimes”; that “66% of children who have been incarcerated never return to school”; and that “the US incarcerates nearly 5 times more children than any other nation in the world.”

  29. Phoenix says:

    There is nothing farther from the truth:

    “current generations….they have no people skills.”

    I am a teacher as well. Or “instructor.” Doing life or death things, not prose or poetry.

    It’s comments like this that make me despise the older generation. Ef fing know-it-alls.

    You are only going to get worse in your bias with your arrogant narcissistic attitude.

    Thank (insert your deity) that you aren’t teaching my kid.

  30. Phoenix says:

    Historically speaking, empires on average last for around 250 years, after which they tend to either slowly — or very, very quickly — fall apart due to overreach and internal conflict. Somewhat ominously, the 250th birthday of America is coming up in 2026.

    Drink with me to days gone by
    To the life (To the life) that used (That used) to be (To be)
    At the shrine of friendship, never say die
    Let the wine of friendship never run dry
    Here’s to (Here’s to you) you and here’s to me

  31. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Why are you taking it in a negative way? I was simply pointing out what I see. It does not apply to all. Maybe, you are right, I should reevaluate.

  32. BRT says:

    Historically speaking, empires on average last for around 250 years, after which they tend to either slowly — or very, very quickly — fall apart due to overreach and internal conflict. Somewhat ominously, the 250th birthday of America is coming up in 2026.

    Currency debasement is usually the endgame for empires. At this point, the Federal Government is a parasite. It would probably be better if we split into separate countries at some point.

  33. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If you own $ARKK $ARKW $ARKQ and $ARKF, you have the S&P 500 Beat for the last 6 months and are just about to beat $QQQ. All have outperformed for 1 and 5 years too. Feb/March was a problem but that starts to be put in rearview mirror.

  34. Phoenix says:

    I was simply pointing out what I see

    Then open your eyes.

    I see twenty something young men and women covered in blood and every other body fluid.
    I see them work together as part of a team to get a job done.
    I see them work for ten hours only to be told they can’t leave after not having a break or lunch to eat.
    I see them carry out Covid bodies in body bags.

    I see them in groups with all of us after work enjoying a meal together. They have families, some have kids, boyfriends and girlfriends.

    I see them talk to people when they are scared and give them comfort and assurance.
    I see them stepping up with precision, and trying to do the right thing every time.

    I see. And they deserve respect.

  35. Fast Eddie says:

    Ask doctors, cops, even bouncers who they would rather deal with..a person blasted on alcohol or a someone that just smoked a joint? It is not even close.

    Agree on that one. I won’t say weed is harmless but pales in comparison to alcohol and anything else. And I’m not sure I agree with the stores where you can shop for it but I mull that back and forth. As a side, legalize gambling in NJ Vegas style and toss in pr0stitution as well. Might as well collect as many tax dollars as you can. Maybe it’ll alleviate some of the burden on the productive class. I was looking at houses in the Charlotte and Nashville areas again and I just shake my head at the property taxes. I keep thinking it’s a misprint. That’s another story… I digress.

  36. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Point made and understood.

    I was more focused on the avg teenager, but point is taken/understood.

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Weed is not the problem, but the individual is. Addicts of hard drugs usually have major pain deep within. You don’t start focusing your life on drinking or drugs because everything is all right. You do it because of sadness and pain, trying to escape reality. That’s what makes you feel good.

  38. Bystander says:

    Well, Rittenhouse is going to walk completely free now bc gun laws are insane. My last post on this subject.

    Judge Tosses Gun Charge Against Kyle Rittenhouse Before Closing Arguments

    In accepting their argument, Judge Schroeder—who has come under withering scrutiny centering on accusations of favoring the defendant—explained the dismissal came because Wisconsin law was poorly written and that the barrel size of the firearm Rittenhouse carried that night meant he did not violate the statute. The prosecution conceded that Rittenhouse’s rifle was not short-barreled.

  39. chicagofinance says:

    Ex: check this one…… theme song for 2021…. dedicated to Phoenix

  40. chicagofinance says:

    I was born here and I’ll die here against my will
    I know it looks like I’m movin’ but I’m standin’ still
    Every nerve in my body is so naked and numb
    I can’t even remember what it was I came here to get away from

  41. 3b says:

    Lib; And how much over booked conference rooms, and conference calls that get dropped . Have had one issue with Zoom in almost two years.

  42. 3b says:

    Pumps: You don’t understand because you don’t do what we do. Just like you constantly tell us about your profession.

    As for people skills you make broad generalizations again. Some have excellent people skills some don’t, that cuts across generations. And as for people skills you might want to brush up on your own.

  43. 3b says:

    How does a cop differentiate between pot and alcohol if someone is doing both?

  44. Libturd says:

    I only use my company as an example. I really don’t think we are EVER going back. This is based on gains in every area. To make things crazier, with our migration into our huge Asian overlord, an incentive program was put in place at the end of 2019. Our results in 2020 were so strong that our Asian overlord moved the goal posts way narrower and instead of three points, we only get one now.

    I kid you not, I never received a significant bonus (netting much over 2K) in my life. Last year, I could nearly buy a car with mine. Yeah, working from home IS destructive, to commuting.

  45. Libturd says:


    Having been drunk/high and both so frequently my freshman year and my high school summers as a sleep away camp counselor in the Borscht Belt, it’s a completely different set of symptoms for each. For both, the drunkeness will most likely prevail over weed impact.

    Example from college. My eventual best man and me did the play by play of the football and basketball team in college both at home and away games for our radio station. After our game against what was formerly known as Trenton State College (I could be wrong, it was all a blur for obvious reasons), we were invited to a huge frat party off campus. We consumed massive amounts of vodka and smoked smoke crazy large blunts. Later that evening, we ended up in the dorms with some unseemly young woman (a dangerous side effect of the vodka). Well, when we realized we were in too deep, my friend heads to the bathroom (these were old school dorms with community bathrooms) and then pulls the fire alarm. Unbeknownst to him, he’s caught on camera doing it and someone recognizes that the two of us broadcast the game together. They call the campus police, which down there are the same as real cops, also for obvious reasons. and they ask me for the name of my friend. I stop to think of a fake name as hard as I can and all I can come out with was John Smith. The cop turns to me and says, “you can do better than that.” To which I first then realize how stupid that name was and I began to start laughing at myself uncontrollably. The cop just let me go and told me to tell my friend to never come back. The ugly girls didn’t think the whole incident was funny like I did when I explained to them what happened and that got me the official release. We both did the same game the following year.

    But the moment you try to be careful and conjure up a fake name and the best you can do is John Smith? Believe me. That cop knew I was drunk and high. I am still laughing at myself. I am usually awesome under pressure. John Smith. And it probably took my 90 seconds to come up with it. Though in pot time, it felt like 30 seconds.

  46. Ex says:

    I was driving the wrong way down a one-way street in a 73 Mustang with three fraternity brothers in the car. We’d juuuuust finished a jay and one dude had a large bag on him. I was driving, we got pulled over, I stepped out of a car and lit a ciggie, the cop smirked and said, ” you aren’t going to cover up anything with that…” referring to the smell. He looked me up and down and looked in the car, seeing relatively normal dudes just out for a drive. Get along, fellas, have a nice day. To which we all were incredibly relieved.

    Another time I left a session in my dorm to go to the 7/11. I come back to the room, everyone is really quiet. WTF?? Happened here I asked. “We got busted”. one guy said.
    The RA had called the cops, they came and charged everyone there with whatever and a month later one of those dudes was in the army. Gulp.
    Saved by the munchies!

    By and large when compared with Booze, weed is relatively benign. I have known too many people who had big personality changes when they drank heavily. Others who crashed cars, DUIs, etc. Not a heavy drinker myself.

  47. chicagofinance says:

    The incremental worker is fat, dumb and happy….unwillingly to come off the sidelines…. as soon as we slip into a recession; the bloom comes off the rose….. you will see the employers get the upper hand back. Look out when that happens. It will be a brutal comeuppance. We are in peak WFH. Not to say we go back to 2019, but what is the case right now is a fcuking joke, and it is really bad for young people, who frankly could use some normalized soc!alization in a professional setting. Most of you pounding the table for WFH are in fields where solitary and focused thinking is at a premium. Not all jobs are this way. The “water cooler” at my various jobs is the core of my Linked-In today….. everything flows from there…. I guess every 25 is supposed to figure it out themselves? The point in the age of Zuck’s metacrapverse is to have meaningful resonant relationships with people, not thousands of followers. WFH is the bait and switch for boomers and GenX to sh!t on the younger folks, except the younger folks have no idea that they are being snookered. They think it is great.

    Libturd says:
    November 15, 2021 at 1:23 pm
    I only use my company as an example. I really don’t think we are EVER going back. This is based on gains in every area. To make things crazier, with our migration into our huge Asian overlord, an incentive program was put in place at the end of 2019. Our results in 2020 were so strong that our Asian overlord moved the goal posts way narrower and instead of three points, we only get one now.

    I kid you not, I never received a significant bonus (netting much over 2K) in my life. Last year, I could nearly buy a car with mine. Yeah, working from home IS destructive, to commuting.

  48. Juice Box says:

    re: Old Realtor. 9:31 am “Juice, What you are referring to never became law.”

    You are misinformed..

    The February law continues to hold that officers could be guilty of depriving and underage person of their civil rights if law enforcement questions stemming from the discovery of marijuana, alcohol or hasish. In other words they cannot stop and ask them where they got it from and who their dealer is. Kids are not allowed to have it period, but the cops hands are now tied and the kids know it. They flaunt it now, lot of problems over the summer.

    The cleanup bill passed in March did not change those restrictions only the notification to the parents for a first offense.

    Hense the PBA has advised their membership to be wary of stopping minors and has spoken out against it, the law as it now stands.

    Drug dealers (which are still illegal) now hide their drugs with the children now, they cannot be searched.

    State lawmakers have essentially decriminalized marijuana and alcohol possession for children. I don’t think the voters would have approved the ballot question for a legalized marketplace for marijuana, if they realized factions of our state lawmakers would write and force passage of legislation that would in effect give teens a green light to possess and use marijuana and alcohol. That was not the intent, it was for adults only.

  49. Nomad says:

    political typology, find out wher you rank, lots of subtlety, not stark blue or red

  50. Juice Box says:


    My brother is hosting Thanksgiving this year. My SIL wants us all to take a Covid test before we come.

    Should I tell her I am not comfortable being around if they are using the rapid home COVID-19 Antigen self tests because asymptomatic people don’t always show up on the Rapid antigen test, and insist on the more accurate Roche Labs LightCycler Real-time Fluorescent RT-PCR test?

    Fun times I could also toss in that since her children are not vaccinated, they need to wear medical grade PPE and social distance at all times or provide a copy of their two shot Pfizer vaccine documentation upon arrival?

  51. Libturd says:


    You could very well be right. I think what eventually comes out of all of this is another option for those smart enough to bargain for it at the contract negotiation table. I know I am a unique mother fukcer. I hear it from HR all of the time. So what works for me certainly might not work for the average schmo. I do a lot of unorthodox sh1t in the corporate workplace. For instance, I tend to hire friends over strangers. I know what I am going to get and put my extremely tough expectations out on the line. I also make it very clear to never ever flash the friend card. Nor would I. That option was used up the moment I gave you the job. The other thing I do is that I treat my coworkers, all of them, as equals. From the janitor to our CEO. They are all important pieces of the puzzle and without one, you can’t finish it. Truth be told, having a clean crapper is probably more important to me than how our ship is being steered. I also share a lot of my personal life with my coworkers (who are sincerely interested) and I always try to show an interest in theirs. This may be why I can’t get sh1t done at work.
    My brazen honesty and willingness to tell it like it is (without the sugarcoating) has gotten me extremely far too. Trust me, when management asks who is fungible and you tell them your supervisor, or that you could completely automate another department for the cost of someone’s laptop, you instantly earn respect. This week, I am planning on presenting a way to turn my team into an automated solutions provider both internally and externally, rather than continue as a production department for financial communications. Much of what we do has been automated by my way team anyway. Have some rather large, whack-on-the-side-of-the-head presentations to make over the coming weeks. Best of all, the ROI for the software we need is going to be a piece of cake because my team has already worked out a deal where we are the software provider’s live beta users, in exchange for our professional feedback, suggestions for improvement and to build future business cases for their other prospective clients. You know your team is strong when we have figured out solutions for a major software package (Enfocus Server product) that even their own experts could not solve. And the opportunities to automate lots of parts of our company are endless. Can’t wait to get the ball rolling on this. All this with no in person interoffice collaboration.

  52. Libturd says:

    Nomad, my friends and I went through that a few days ago. Most were establishment liberals and I was progressive left. Had a few mainstays and one stressed sideliner. Pretty interesting quiz.

  53. crushednjmillenial says:

    On mj . . . in the US, the federal and state government has held it illegal for decades. Despite this, it was always easy to access for me and my friends for my entire life from age 12 onward.

    MJ prohibition resulted in (1) about 50% of annual drug cartel profits, (2) several hundred thousand americans per year with arrest records for small possession convictions, (3) potentially dangerous drugs being mixed with the mj by nefaraious dealers, (4) regular people interacting with criminals to procure the stuff, and (4) an infringement upon the rights of adults to choose to use it or not.

    The US is waking up to the wrongheadedness of mj prohibition. It is legal in about 18 states or so. I am hopeful that there is no going back to mj prohibtion. This is an issue where the right answer is slowly emerging after being rejected for far too long.

  54. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Would you take your hard earned money, and given the option, would you invest in a remote startup or in person business?

    That’s why I don’t see WFH taking over. That’s a lot of balls to trust people remotely, esp when they don’t have to look you in the eye when the f’k up. You are just a person at the other end of the screen to these workers. Eventually, some of them are going to figure out how to rob your business and you will have almost zero chance of figuring it out as the business is run over the cloud remotely. I would never take my hard earned capital and time to take on this kind of risk starting a business remotely.

    P.s. Your company is fortunate you haven’t f’ed them over because it’s obvious you can.

  55. leftwing says:

    “I don’t know the answer to any of this.”

    We know. So just please STFU already.

    “If you own $ARKK $ARKW $ARKQ and $ARKF, you have the S&P 500 Beat for the last 6 months and are just about to beat $QQQ.”

    Yet somehow you’re still down about 30% from your original purchase, Pancake-Boy.

  56. BRT says:

    Van Eck Semiconductors Index is now pretty much in line with ARKK’s long term gains and has far outperformed them this year, only those companies actually make money.

  57. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You run a clean ship it seems in terms of supervision. Building a team you can trust. They are your friends. Don’t apply this model to most companies. F’ing rat race out there, and most people will turn to the dark side if the conditions present themselves. Remote presents those types of conditions.

  58. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Long term strategy based on dollar cost avg….you are lost in the woods buddy. You just don’t understand it. I’m not employing a strategy to feed my ego. I know it’s boring and requires limited smarts, but guess what, it will win over time idiot.

    leftwing says:
    November 15, 2021 at 5:31 pm
    “I don’t know the answer to any of this.”

    We know. So just please STFU already.

    “If you own $ARKK $ARKW $ARKQ and $ARKF, you have the S&P 500 Beat for the last 6 months and are just about to beat $QQQ.”

    Yet somehow you’re still down about 30% from your original purchase, Pancake-Boy.

  59. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Rather take arkk any day of the week if we are talking long term. Semiconductors are benefiting from the shortage. Will that play out long term?

    BRT says:
    November 15, 2021 at 5:33 pm
    Van Eck Semiconductors Index is now pretty much in line with ARKK’s long term gains and has far outperformed them this year, only those companies actually make money.

  60. leftwing says:

    “Well, Rittenhouse is going to walk completely free now bc gun laws are insane. My last post on this subject.”

    The law is the law. Either it was broken, or it wasn’t.

    In this case it appears that law was not broken.

    Infinitely more dangerous is having an opinion that another’s actions are ‘wrong’ and then manipulating the law to fit one’s preformed opinion.

    Just because you do not agree does not make something ‘insane’.

  61. 3b says:

    Pumps: Most companies would be out of business without good supervision. Those who do know, those who don’t do, don’t know.

  62. 3b says:

    Chgo: You make some valid points, those too will be addressed, but thee is no going back to 2019, not even close. The professional surveys many of these companies are using including my own indicate there is tremendous support for WFH across all demographics. My company age wise goes from right out of college all the way up. My company is also offering those who wish to work in the office the ability to do so with the caveat to keep in mind our real estate foot print will be shrinking. For the younger single people they will age into WFH. Its where it is not only going, but accelerating. There will be bumps along the road of course like anything new, but it’s going back. More companies will be going that route as we head into the new year.

  63. leftwing says:

    “Long term strategy based on dollar cost avg….you are lost in the woods buddy.”

    OK, Top-Tick.

    Anytime you want to compare portfolios…..

    Only condition is you actually need to have reason behind your choices, and reason does not include Reddit posts from twenty-somethings (bruh!) nor tweets from third year hotel students interning as a bellboy…still can’t believe that one, I couldn’t make up that level of stupidity for you if I tried. LOL.

  64. 3b says:

    Lib: I have not smoked weed in years, I tried it and did not like the zoned out detached feeling; everyone is different. As for expunging peoples records for being busted for pot, I would agree it should be done.

  65. leftwing says:

    Chi, great post on WFH and the upcoming generation. Living it real time with my 24 year old…..

    Lib, you do anything similar to Broadridge/ProxyVote?

  66. leftwing says:

    Hahaha, took the quiz…

    “Ambivalent Right, along with 12% of the population”

  67. Old realtor says:

    Do you want the police to be arresting minors for possession of drugs and alcohol? The law is clear. If the police union advises the members/cops not to enforce the law, why aren’t you upset about that? Not sure what you want here. Isn’t it clear that arrests and convictions are not the solution.

  68. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It already peaked. The numbers have been going down. More offices keep opening up.

    “Its where it is not only going, but accelerating. There will be bumps along the road of course like anything new, but it’s going back. More companies will be going that route as we head into the new year.”

  69. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Again, 3b, would you buy a house remotely? I already know the answer. So why not?

    And don’t tell me this is any different than owning a business. Just answer the question.

  70. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Just think what can go wrong hiring people you never met before, have never been given a chance to get to know them, and have these type of people running your company. What could go wrong?! Catfish anyone?

  71. Juice Box says:

    Realtor – possession or dealing, lets be perfectly clear here.

    If kids are dealing drugs they should be arrested. You do understand they cannot stop and search anymore right? That means the drug dealers are going to get a free pass. You might condone that but many people do not.

    The question on the ballot that passed the voters was for adults, only, yet the legislation was pushed to make it almost impossible to police those under 21 years old.

    Here is the question.

    “Do you approve amending the Constitution to legalize a controlled form of marijuana called “cannabis”?

    Only adults at least 21 years of age could use cannabis. The State commission created to oversee the State’s medical cannabis program would also oversee the new, personal use cannabis market.

    Cannabis products would be subject to the State sales tax. If authorized by the Legislature, a municipality may pass a local ordinance to charge a local tax on cannabis products.”

    I would say there is going to be a negative effect on teens. Only time will tell.

  72. Juice Box says:

    That survey was garbage….

  73. The Great Pumpkin says:


    Legalize and educate is the way. Penalizing drug users does nothing but hurt the economy and make cartels rich. We tried the war on drugs and it’s a waste of time and money. Just think of how much it cost you in taxes to carry out that war. Makes my pension look cheap.

  74. Juice Box says:

    Again folks. TO BE CLEAR.


    There are now 70,000 overdose deaths in the USA. Way up from 20,000 only two decades ago, if it wasn’t for NARCAN it would be much much higher.

  75. 3b says:

    Pumps: Again pumps you have no business commenting on WFH as you are not in corporate America, you simply don’t know what we do. As for hiring remotely, what do you know about that? Nothing. My company by the way does in person interviews. As for hiring a bad employees that happens even with in person interviews. You hate WFH because it may affect your household income. Period.

  76. 3b says:

    Pumps: No it has not peaked. In fact only 13 percent of workers are expected to be back in the office by January 2022.

  77. Juice Box says:

    3b – Don’t you get it those workers quit in September including the high paid ones in Finance. They just all quit with no severance, unemployment or Cobra as a protest. THEY DEMAND WORKING IN THE OFFICE!!

    4.4 million people resigned in Sept a RECORD because they cannot be back in the office where they want to be all the time, they miss the water cooler talk and snap inspections of their cubicles. WE DEMAND TO GO BACK TO 2019 DAMMIT and we want it NOW. Open those offices, give us back our TPS REPORTS!!!

  78. 3b says:

    Juice: And don’t forget our awful commutes we want to travel
    1.5 hours each way for our commute, and we look forward to our delays, we long for the days when due to delays it may take us 3 hours or more to get home. The commutes and delays keep us strong and resilient, and give us the opportunity to people watch like some freak.

  79. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “This is not to gloss over the city’s big problems, of course — like most big U.S. cities, it’s plagued by an affordability crisis, and its excessive construction costs and dilapidated infrastructure are legendary. In order to maintain its density and functionality, the city will have to learn how to build things again.

    But as long as New York remains America’s most functional large city — in some ways, its only real city — it will continue to exert an irresistible magnetism. It will continue to draw the artists and the writers, the lawyers and the financiers, the engineers and the bohemians. Only if another U.S. city decides to convert itself into a hyper-dense train-powered metropolis will New York ever have any real competition. But given the politics of American cities, that seems extremely unlikely.”

  80. The Great Pumpkin says:


    It’s not about the worker. You guys will see.

    Workers might have the strength of a union for now, but that won’t last.

  81. Juice Box says:

    More saber rattling from Russia, and endangering their own people too.

  82. 3b says:

    Pumps WFH is permanent. You only hate it because it may affect your household income, and I think you would to be able to do it too. You do very little work as it is and now you want WFH too. Teachers want it all.

  83. BRT says:

    Rather take arkk any day of the week if we are talking long term. Semiconductors are benefiting from the shortage. Will that play out long term?

    Yeah, it’s not like semiconductor usage in products has been exponential this past decade.

  84. No One says:

    Nomad, I got “ambivalent right” in that Pew quiz. But I think many of their questions mis-framed questions and forced false alternatives.

  85. Libturd says:

    I just like the name Pew!

    We all know what Confucius say about that.

    Lefty, we create and print proxy cards, but don’t tally the votes. Broadridge is both a competitor and vendor of ours. They are tops in major mail housing. Though, considering technology, not exactly the best place to be.

Comments are closed.