Affordable? Not today.

From Yahoo Finance:

US Housing Affordability Remains at a Record Low, NAR Says

The National Association of Realtors housing affordability index was unchanged at 87.8 in July, matching the lowest level in data back to 1989. A level of 100 means a family with the median income has enough income to qualify for a mortgage at the median home price.

The typical family spent 28.5% of their income on the principal and interest of their mortgage payment each month, also matching an all-time high, according to the report released Friday. Qualifying income for a mortgage, based on a 20% down payment, was a record $104,496 in July.

“Higher mortgage rates continued to harm affordability despite modestly lower median home prices,” Lawrence Yun, NAR’s chief economist, said in an email. “Consequently, the Federal Reserve is unintentionally widening the social divide by preventing middle-income renters from ownership opportunities.”

Buying conditions have deteriorated swiftly over the last year as borrowing costs climbed and a shortage of available homes kept asking prices elevated. Mortgage rates are now near their highest level since 2000 and many homeowners who locked in at much cheaper rates are reluctant to sell.

The lack of inventory has, in turn, driven up home prices, and allowed the housing market to recoup the nearly $3 trillion in value wiped out last year.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Bubble, Mortgages, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

86 Responses to Affordable? Not today.

  1. Hold my beer says:


  2. Hold my beer says:

    That 28.5% of income figure. Is that based on take home pay or gross pay?

  3. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Human nature is a biatch.

    You know who drives these prices up to unaffordable prices? Same idiots in the stock market who have zero patience that love to buy expensive and sell cheap. I call them lemmings that make the few rich.

  4. 3b says:

    Hold: I would say that 28.5 number is higher for many who have purchased in the NYC area.

  5. 3b says:

    A house I mentioned a few weeks ago closed the other day. Hard on the corner of Kinderkamack Rd, across from a strip mall and a diner. 3 beds 1.5 bath, closed at 584k. That is insane, don’t know how long this can go on.

  6. trick says:

    Had a tree come down on the deck and house with last nights storm. Doesn’t look like there is any structural damage. Luckily we took down the 2 bigger trees that would have gone through the house.

  7. Phoenix says:

    Since you mentioned weather, this one goes against Team Repub. Trying to get free data from your taxes and sell it back to you, while blocking your free access.
    Sneaky little cretins, just like their Dem counterparts:

    The National Weather Service, which provides large amounts of the data that AccuWeather repackages and sells for profit, also provides that same information for free by placing it in the public domain.

    On April 14, 2005, U.S. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA) introduced the “National Weather Service Duties Act of 2005” in the U.S. Senate. The legislation would have forbidden the National Weather Service from providing any such information directly to the public, and the legislation was generally interpreted as an attempt by AccuWeather to profit off of taxpayer-funded weather research by forcing its delivery through private channels. AccuWeather denies this and maintains it never intended to keep weather information out of the hands of the general public.[34] The bill did not come up for a vote. Santorum received campaign contributions from AccuWeather’s president, Joel Myers.[35]

    On October 12, 2017, President Donald Trump nominated AccuWeather CEO Barry Lee Myers, the younger brother of the company’s founder, to head the National Weather Service’s parent administration, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. It was noted that unlike 11 of the previous 12 NOAA administrators, Myers lacks an advanced scientific degree, instead holding bachelor’s and master’s degrees in business and law.[36] Barry Myers stepped down as CEO of AccuWeather on January 1, 2019, and completely divested himself of any ownership of AccuWeather in accordance with his pledge to the Office of Government Ethics and the U.S. Senate. After two years of inaction on the nomination, Myers withdrew his consideration for nomination on November 12, 2019, due to ill health,[37] though allegations of a hostile workplace and pervasive sexual harassment while Myers was at AccuWeather are rumored to have stalled it.[38][39] Myers sent a letter to The Washington Post in 2019 to address these allegations.

  8. Phoenix says:

    “Be quiet, don’t say another word.”

  9. Juice Box says:

    Anyone looking to sell has plenty of room to reduce list prices and still be in the black. This will probably play out for years to come as long as rates remain high. It will be a slow slog back to some semblance of affordability. Perhaps as long as 5 + years.

    Again the next crisis is only around the corner. When that happens and it will the FED will lower rates again near ZIRP knocking off a huge chunk of the monthly nut needed to buy a home.

    Until then don’t expect any of the dials to move quickly as Mortgage applications are at a near 28-year low and will stay that way as sellers are slow to lower housing asking prices. Almost any house will sell if it’s priced right, as real estate agents routinely preach. The realtors that will survive this downturn will have to start preaching salvation by lowering the asking price.

  10. 3b says:

    Juice: Perhaps, or a nasty recession causes a complete reset and low rates won’t be much of a help. Special of recessions Abby Joseph Cohen says chances of a recession are increasing. She was highly regarded back in her days at GS, not that it necessarily means anything.

  11. MoneyMarketFundsRules says:


    Me think that inflation driven high rates are going to be around for a very long time. Those rates will hold the present Mexican stand off until boomers die and family sell because they want cash.

    Reasons that will ensure that rates can’t be brought down:
    1-Cheap China products – gone.
    2-Large amounts of legal immigrants – gone.
    3-Transition out of oil. Means oil producers will keep prices high to squeeze last cents before massive oil glut caused by lack of demand.
    4-Deglobalization making sure that efficiency based low cost manufacturing to replace China never appears.

    In short cash is king and will get paid as such. The coming decades economic winds are in the exact opposite direction of that allowed cheap money since Greenspan.

  12. 3b says:

    If we go back to ZIRP, then rapid rise in inflation again, and then tighten again, rinse and repeat until collapse.

  13. Phoenix says:

    Yup. The market is clogged. Someone wanting to buy in will be paying one hell of a premium in both principal and interest.

    Until then don’t expect any of the dials to move quickly as Mortgage applications are at a near 28-year low and will stay that way as sellers are slow to lower housing asking prices. Almost any house will sell if it’s priced right, as real estate agents routinely preach.

  14. Phoenix says:

    Costco has gold on sale. Stock up now:

    Costco Wholesale has for their Members: 1 Troy Ounce Gold Bar Rand Refinery (New In Assay) for $1959.99. Shipping is free.

    1920.00 for executive members after your 2% off.

  15. crushednjmillenial says:

    NJBest 529?

    Anyone use this for a relative’s child (for birthday presents, etc. for the child)?

    Seems like the funds are all high-fee garbage. But, there is a state income tax deduction for a contribution. The $750 match is for people with less than $75k/year income.

    For example, a fund they have is FAUCX (Franklen Aggressive Growth Allocation 529) with total annual expenses over 1%, which is absurd.

  16. Phoenix says:

    Fourth grade teacher Alissa McCommon, 38, is charged with raping a 12-year-old boy at her home in Tennessee – as cops hunt for MORE victims who she ‘befriended on social media’
    Alissa McCommon, 38, was arrested outside her home by officers from the Covington Police Department on Friday. She is being held on $25,000 bond
    The school district learned about McCommon’s misconduct on August 24 after a parent came forward with the disturbing allegations
    Police said a number of students came forward claiming she befriended them on social media and sent them racy pictures and asked to have sex with them

  17. 3b says:

    Phoenix: What’s going one with all these women teachers, is this a new development, or was it always going on, just hearing more about it these last few years.

  18. Phoenix says:


    Technology is catching those we thought were pure, innocent, law abiding, law enforcing, and “honorable.”

    without a doubt it’s been going on. They are all just getting caught now.

  19. ExEx says:

    Well did you hear? There’s a natural order
    Those most deserving will end up with the most
    That the cream cannot help but always rise up to the top
    Well I say, “Shit floats”

    If you thought things had changed
    Friend, you’d better think again
    Bluntly put, in the fewest of words
    Cunts are still running the world
    Cunts are still running the world
    Oh yeah
    Now the working classes are obsolete
    They are surplus to society’s needs
    So let ’em all kill each other
    And get it made overseas
    That’s the word, don’t you know
    From the guys that’s running the show
    Let’s be perfectly clear boys and girls
    Oh cunts are still running the world
    Cunts are still running the world
    Oh yeah

  20. 3b says:

    Phoenix: I guess so. I just never considered women as sexual predators

  21. The Great Pumpkin says:


  22. grim says:

    Pretty sure IRS has been using predictive models for a long time.

    Really, it’s just math.

  23. Juice Box says:

    IRS just got $80 Billion to build the better mousetrap. They have issued massive RFPs for future projects as part of their roadmap on how to spend the money.

    IRS RAAS office that runs their analytics. They have massive amounts of data but strangely tax cheats still fall through the cracks, as if it almost was designed that way. Look fact is the data they need is firewalled, banking records and secrecy etc. Heck a smart IRS AI should have flagged anyone with two dozen LLCs and a separate bank account for each one, only criminals have that many LLCs, as Hunter Biden has shown us, you have to follow the money.

  24. Fast Eddie says:

    “Consequently, the Federal Reserve is unintentionally widening the social divide by preventing middle-income renters from ownership opportunities.”

    Well, it keeps the riff raff out of our North Jersey suburbs. We have a reputation to keep and want only the preferred type to occupy leafy street dwellings. Hmmm… I think I’ll write a book and call it ‘Leafy Street Dwellings’ which chronicles the fictional day to day lives of the privileged muppets in the hinterlands of the world’s number one Metropolis.

  25. Juice Box says:

    Eddie – Lawrence Yun has been chief of the NARs talking heads about economics since the last housing crisis……he was wrong about that housing crash and the recession in 2008 that followed. It’s been an easy ride since then because of ZIRP and now that the Fed has finally reversed course all he will do is just put out statements knocking the Fed at every opportunity.

    His latest call in July was “Now it’s time for investors to sell” basically because, without a 50% growth in listings, the NAR is going to lose perhaps as many and 500,000 paying members in the coming months.

    Sell to Whom Lawrence Sell to Whom?

  26. Juice Box says:

    Just to be clear. About 700,000 listings and 1.5 million realtors are NAR members. I am doing the simple math folks and well they lost 30% of their membership back after the last housing crash.

    NAR membership come January is $156 per member dues for 2024 + $45 special assessment for 2024. That is 97 Million + in dues + fees that are going to evaporate.

    Good luck Lawrence your Linkedin says you got a 25 year run out of the NAR. Perhaps your next gig will be in the Biden administration, part of the revolving door between lobbyists and the Federal Government.

  27. 3b says:

    Juice: If the Fed were to lower rates again, how low would they have to go to clear the jam in the housing market. If mortgage rates drop to 6 will that do it, or is 5 the number, or does the Fed need to go back to ZIRP, and get rates down to 3 percent where they were at the end of 2021? If so, then housing values become even more inflated, and inflation comes roaring back, and it’s back to raising rates again. The Fed created this mess.

  28. 3b says:

    Fast: And developers as long as they can get financing will continue to build multi family housing wherever they can. A new one just finished in Oradell, on KKR, and another one in Oradell on KKR is going back to the planning board again after being rejected twice.

  29. Juice Box says:

    re: “Really, it’s just math”

    I can’t believe Grim does not believe the hype.

    AI is the second coming. I have yet to see anyone use probability to prove it is not.

  30. Juice Box says:

    3B – It’s not ” If the Fed” —–> It’s “when the Fed”

    Time has proven the next crisis will come and along with it QE and lower rates. This will be done to clear the log jam of bad bets Wall St made. Let it be said let it be done..woe to anyone who do not obey the Fed’s edict or deliver on their commitments.

    Anyway, as I predict the desperate realtors will be doing exactly what I said. Preaching salvation (their own) by telling sellers to lower the asking price, that will be for at least the next 5 + years or a the next crisis comes along.

  31. 3b says:

    Juice: I agree when the Fed lowers, my point is how low do they have to go, and does it just restart the whole madness again.

  32. Phoenix says:

    What does AI say about the housing market and what the Fed is going to do with interest rates?

  33. Phoenix says:

    Anyway, as I predict the desperate realtors will be doing exactly what I said. Preaching salvation (their own) by telling sellers to lower the asking price, that will be for at least the next 5 + years or a the next crisis comes along.

    Rates go up, prices must drop or your buyers can’t afford it. But sellers have a hard time dropping prices- it’s a psychological thing with capitalism and greed.

    It’s all going to slow.

  34. 3b says:

    Phoenix: We don’t need AI for north Jersey real estate, and interest rates, we have Fast, he is the oracle. All that we need to know we can get from him.

  35. Juice Box says:

    AI has no clue as to the even cause and effect, never mind the future. Here is the answer from Bing’s version of ChatGPT.

    Answer – “It is hard to predict exactly how the Fed’s efforts will affect the housing market as home prices are not driven solely by interest rates but by a complicated mix of factors”

    “If you would like more information on this topic, I suggest visiting the official website of the Federal Reserve or consulting with a financial advisor.”

  36. SundayRain says:


    Is not just the fed lowering rates. Is the goosing up of Freddie &Fannie whom a few years ago right before the pandemic raised the conforming loans limits.

    Going back a decade or so, the talk was of killing Fred & Fannie and letting backs issue covered bonds where the banks issues bonds whose principal and interest comes from segregated mortgages like in Europe. A tougher variations of mortgage backed securities.

    If this happens the 30yrs mortgage is kaput. You will end up like Canada with variations of fixed years and variables rates for the rest with balloon payments that are either paid off or refinanced.

    So if you get a Porterville mentality from the elected politicians regarding residential real estate in the future. It does not matter if the Fed goes to ZIRP again if there is no lending infrastructure that socializes the 30yrs mortgage then is game over as you know it. No one wants to admit that residential real estate is next to Medicare in socialism. Without Fred and Fannie, look up Canadian mortgages for what your future looks like.

  37. Phoenix says:

    And I thought that AI was supposed to decode the “complicated mix of factors.”

    Oh well. I guess it’s Eddie the AI

  38. OC1 says:

    Historically, mortgage rates today are not particularly high- they were this high or higher from the 70’s up until the 2008 financial crisis.

    The problem with todays housing market is lack of supply.

    And the lack of supply is driven by zoning. Loosen up zoning so that it allows smaller houses, smaller lot sizes, more multi’s, more condos, more apartments… and prices will come down.

    The problem is that existing home owners tend to be 100% against that- they want their town to stay exactly the same as it was the day they bought, and they want their #1 investment (their house) to keep that high price.

    So don’t blame the fed- blame your neighbors (and maybe yourself) for opposing looser zoning!

  39. Phoenix says:

    The problem with todays housing market is lack of supply.

    Well, when you have hedge funds, private equity, and individuals who own ten homes then yes, you will have a “lack of supply.”

  40. Phoenix says:


    Plenty of land in Gary, Indiana.

    Don’t think zoning is a problem there. America has land, lots and lots of it.

    It sent all of the work that was done there overseas for profit, bankrupting places like Gary.

    Money rules.

  41. Juice Box says:

    re: SundayRain -Yes QE and Rates combined drove the lower rate mortgages that were available until about March of 2022 when the tapering of QE and the last 10 rate increases started.

    “A tougher variations of mortgage backed securities”

    You are talking about banks having skin in the game? Hahahahhaha!!!! Never again folks. Did not happen during the Dodd-Frank Act and surely won’t happen now.

  42. 3b says:

    OC1: 600/ 700k for a 3 bed 1 bath house, is insane regardless of the mortgage rate, and then throw on a 12 to 15k annual tax bill. Two incomes today are not optional, but mandatory for almost all of the Millenials and Gen Z . I don’t see that as progress.

  43. Juice Box says:

    3b – Get em while they are hot, it’s a prestigious cape cod.

  44. Juice Box says:

    OC1 – Zoning? Yes more high-rises, so you can live on Pavonia Ave!

  45. 3b says:

    Juice: I know the house, that was a tear down and they rebuilt one of those new black and white monster houses, the sold price of one million plus is for the new house I believe.

  46. Juice Box says:

    3b – The realtors in town need to send a note to Sundar Pichai As Google Maps has not been around your town to take pictures since 2018. It’s actually hurting sales. Blame google..

  47. 3b says:

    Juice: 5 years is a long time , surprised. I should have grabbed 115 Voorhis Ave , sold for 584k , 3 beds 1 bath. Hard on the corner of Kinderkamack Rd, across from strip mall and diner. Bus stop right outside. It will probably be with another 50k by year end.

  48. Bystander says:


    It is not zoning. Phoenix is right, lack of supply due to Blackrocks, Private Funds, Zillows of world being allowed to buy tracts of houses with Fed’s free money scheme. It should have been disallowed but politicians love home prices going up. Also, builders simply go higher on smaller lots to add more sqft. I see it all time. They are not making small affordable homes anymore. I also can’t believe someone said a few weeks on this blog that the building boom never happened?? What? I can’t drive anywhere in my town with new condos going up. The shovels have not stopped. The cheap money must still be out there. In 2008, you could literally see the work stoppage – foundations poured with overgrown grass and rusty skeletons of towers. Not today. Full go

  49. Phoenix says:

    Housing is one of Maslow’s needs, it’s called shelter.

    When someone takes advantage of a need for people to shelter, its like taking advantage of their need for food, their children, etc.

    It’s all leverage. It’s what capitalism is good at.

  50. 3b says:

    Bystander: I agree. Now owning a modest house in a decent town is a luxury. So much for progress, we are going backwards not forward. Young people are screwed.

  51. Juice Box says:

    Folks there are 461,000 apartments being built this year, the highest amount in 50 years. This number is only 50+ unit construction across 130 distinct markets.

    Tell me again it’s zoning?

  52. Juice Box says:

    Phil Simms looks like he got allot of work done in the off-season. His hair is now much blonder and skin tighter. He is 5 years older than Boomer who is 62 and now looks 10 years younger than him.

  53. Fast Eddie says:

    The number of ‘pods’ being built everywhere is mind-numbing. Green initiative be damned.

  54. Phoenix says:

    Well, you can rent one of the 461k new apartments that have been built. Keep working, pay into social security and medicare (which you aren’t going to get), keep dealing with landlords (def: someone or something having power, authority, or influence; a master or ruler), and getting ground up like being in a machine.

    Hey, it’s a life, right.

    3b says:
    September 10, 2023 at 12:16 pm
    Bystander: I agree. Now owning a modest house in a decent town is a luxury. So much for progress, we are going backwards not forward. Young people are screwed.

  55. OC1 says:

    “It is not zoning. Phoenix is right, lack of supply due to Blackrocks, Private Funds, Zillows of world being allowed to buy tracts of houses with Fed’s free money scheme.”

    What are Blackrock, etc. doing with those houses? Letting them sit empty? Or renting/selling them?

    What % of homes are homes are owned by Blackrock, etc.? It’s just a tiny fraction of the market.

    Houses/condos/apartments are expensive in our area because a lot of people want to live here and are willing to pay those prices to do it!

    It’s simple supply and demand. The only way to get around that is to build more housing in areas where people want to live.

    (Of course, we could also lower prices via the demand side by making this area less desireable to live in- let’s call that “the Detroit method” – but I don’t think anybody wants to go that route.)

    I am perplexed as to why so many find this basic economic principle hard to grasp…

  56. SmallGovConservative says:

    SundayRain says:
    September 10, 2023 at 11:10 am
    “…talk was of killing Fred & Fannie and letting banks issue covered bonds where the banks issues bonds whose principal and interest comes from segregated mortgages like in Europe. A tougher variations of mortgage backed securities.

    If this happens the 30yrs mortgage is kaput. You will end up like Canada with variations of fixed years and variables rates for the rest with balloon payments that are either paid off or refinanced. Without Fred and Fannie, look up Canadian mortgages for what your future looks like.”

    Please clarify…I get the part about what would potentially happen if Freddie/Fannie didn’t exist — the mortgage-backed securities would then be issued by banks (if at all). But why would this put an end to 30 year mortgages? Why wouldn’t banks just issue 30 year mortgages and hold them to maturity, like they and S&L’s used to do? Why would we inevitably migrate to the Canadian ‘variation’ — and if we did, would that be a bad thing? Genuinely interested in the answers and any additional context since it’s never been clear to me what would happen if the gov’t got out of the mortgage business.

  57. Juice Box says:

    Long-term residential mortgages would not be available for most borrowers without Fannie and Freddie. They are 70 percent of the mortgage market, as they buy up most conventional loans offered by private lenders. If you add in Ginnie Mae it’s 92 percent per year of all new mortgages.

    How much does it distort the market? Well the Homeownership Rate has not recovered since before the crash, it’s actually now about 20 years since peak home ownership.

    So who are they helping? It’s simple they take the long-term credit risk off the bank’s balance sheet. If housing crashes again and people stop paying their mortgages it’s no skin off the banks who sold the loans in the first place, there will be another bailout from the US Taxpayers and of course the FED.

    The next crisis is only around the corner folks.

  58. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Demographics people. I told you about this supply issue for a decade on this blog. A decade….remember when they said millennials will rent for life instead of wanting to buy in the burbs…now that was comical when it was en vogue .

    OC, current rates def matter and are too high for current pricing…but then again, that’s what the Fed is doing…making it unaffordable through rates to cool or crash the market.

  59. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Technology stocks are literally carrying the entire stock market:

    The Nasdaq 100 to Russell 2000 ratio just hit an all time record of 8.3x.

    Even in the 2001 Dot-com bubble crisis, this ratio peaked at 8.1x.

    At the start of 2020, the Nasdaq 100 to Russell 2000 ratio was just 5.1x.

    Markets really believe AI is the next big thing.

  60. Juice Box says:

    re: “Markets really believe AI is the next big thing”.

    Pumps here is something crazy to think about for generative AI. It may be much worse for the environment than all that Bitcoin/Altcoin mining which consumes huge amounts of electricity most of which is based on dirty fossil fuels.

    In order for the AI to build and maintain models and process queries on say ChatGPT V-4 it needs to run a massive amount of computations. As Grim said it’s just math or as others have said it’s just a better algorithm. But every time you ask it a question it gulps a huge amount of CPU time and well all the electricity and cooling that goes into all of that processing.

    They are now building massive data centers as fast as they can for AI, it’s going to be a huge expensive footprint as it consumes today about 9 times the amount of electricity as a single Google search.


    0.0026 KWh of electricity to answer one query for ChatGPT

    0.0003 kWh of electricity to answer one Google search.

    Remains to be seen again where it will go…

  61. Juice Box says:

    That Bud Light commercial aide just now during the Steelers/49ers game wasn’t woke, and the Denali commercial after wasn’t targeting Ken or Barbie.

  62. 3b says:

    OC: There was always a premium in this area, and it could be justified at one time. Is the premium worth it now, and to what extent, certainly not as much as it was in the past and the size of the premium in my view. Is it people willing to pay it, or feeling they have no option but to pay it? Paying it and affording it ate two different things.25/30 years ago, much of corporate America still had pension plans, some and 401ks. Corporate pensions are gone, and 401k s are woefully underfunded in all age demographics. Social security may not be around in its current form in the years to come. Birth rate in decline, will impact housing at a some point for the younger generations. It’s a different world, make the house payment and hope for the best is perhaps some peoples view. Does not sound like progress to me.

  63. OC1 says:

    I don’t necessarily disagree with most of what you’re saying, but the “value” of a house (or anything else) is a very subjective thing.

    I also find the prices people are willing to pay for an “overpriced crapshack that reeks of boiled cabbage, cat piss, and chesterfields” a bit crazy, but that’s me.

    I have no doubt that all those buyers would prefer to pay less, and that many of them would be better off with a smaller, cheaper house on a smaller plot of land, but building those types of houses is illegal in many NJ towns due to zoning.

    So they pay up- apparantly it is still worth it to them, even at these high prices.

    Heck, your talking to a guy who has bought 2 new canoes over the last 3 years, each priced at about $2,400.

    I’m sure most of the posters here think that is crazy, but it was definitely worth it to me!

  64. 3b says:

    OC: One thing paying less than 5k for 2 canoes, vs 500/ 600k on a crapshack, but I get your point.

  65. ExEx says:

    Crap shack re-model now on HGTV.
    It’s a whole ethos.

  66. ExEx says:

    Reminder: C*nts are still running the World

  67. Juice Box says:

    HGTV during football? Go sit by your pool, spark one up and watch men smash each other for glory…

  68. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix – Good news they aren’t going to be able to hack your iPhone for at least a few days.. iPhone 8 and later only…took them a long time for this one..I am not kidding it’s been years……Perhaps the five-eyes and three-letter agencies did not want it patched until now anyway.

    “iOS 16.6.1 update. The update addresses a zero-day vulnerability that, according to the University of Toronto’s Citizen Lab, had been actively exploited by Israel’s NSO Group to infect devices with its Pegasus spyware. “Processing a maliciously crafted image may lead to arbitrary code execution,” Apple says of the vulnerability on its iOS 16.6.1 support page.:

  69. Chad Powers says:

    Reference Costco selling gold, I prefer British Sovereigns myself. Each coin has just under a 1/4 ounce of gold, is legal tender and is well respected internationally. In case of a break down of society (think Mad Max or the current situations in San Francisco, NYC or Chicago) it would be more practical trading sovereigns for goods than a one ounce gold coin.

  70. Juice Box says:

    100 square feet of a surface area is what you can hammer out a single gold ounce..

    So wrap toilets? Wrap appliances and then put up the listing?

    What do you think folks, if I was a realtor writing up a listing with pictues gold commodes and appliance would command a massive premium…

  71. ExEx says:

    5:47 pfffft. I’m watching Justified.

  72. Juice Box says:

    Ex – Me TV next?

  73. crushednjmillenial says:

    A time capsule . . .

    Anyone have a shot at what year these kitchen cabinets were installed?

  74. Juice Box says:

    Crushed long time,ago perhaps 1958 remodel. Still greatest generation living there, house was built in 1940, wife died a few months ago age 93 husband is probably going to a retirement home.

    We will all be luckily to live this long..

  75. 3b says:

    Crushed I would say early 60’s, although I think the counter top was updated.

  76. Phoenix says:

    I have to pay Apple to hire engineers to stop a foreign country from accessing my phone- when I say my phone, it’s my model, my brand, so even if they don’t want my particular phone I still pay.

    It’s like having to pay for an alarm service in case someone breaks in your house, except it’s not an individual, its a government.

    Just like I don’t want my own government, the Chinese Government, or the French government in my phone, I don’t want Pegasus on it either.

    F’n go make something productive to cure cancer. Why so many expend so much energy to do evil is beyond me. I guess that’s why the airlines now have to check every plane for fake parts, cause it’s easier to be a criminal than to do the right thing.

  77. Juice Box says:

    3B – 1950s. Before it was mostly painted cabinets. The 60s was the birth of plastics, metals and other manufactured finishes.

  78. 3b says:

    Juice: That first picture is the exact kitchen in my Aunt s house when I was a kid, even down to the little shelves by the window.

  79. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix – Apple has done a superb job of hardening their equipment from the chips on the way up the OSI layers. They have made it so all you need to do is turn your phone off if you are contacted by law enforcement. At this point law enforcement has your hardware and they cannot get on as the don’t have your correct passcode without some water boarding.

    All the hackers of any flavor have that we know about is a vector at the application layer like iMessage etc, which will crop up again and again forever.

    I am not saying it’s perfect, but from what I know even Biden is using an iPhone now. Granted some more security has been added but it’s only lowering probability a small amount at this point, it’s not 2007 anymore.

  80. Juice Box says:

    Heavy rain thunder etc here now should add to the Giants washout soon.

  81. Bystander says:


    I am not dismissing supply and demand but I am dissecting how we got here. This is not a ‘natural’ market. The reason supply is constrained remains due to Fed artificially pushing 10 years of demand into 1.5 year window. Investor class (big companies like Blackrock but also smaller developers/flippers) grabbed tons of houses, tore them down and made bigger houses bc money was cheap and stocks were hot. They are building houses that only people who owned homes before run-up can afford. The boomers saw house wealth explode while new entrants were jumping to secure cheap rates, price be damned. Now, no one is selling due to unprecedented move from 2.5% 30 year to 7.5% in 1.5 years time. 70 year old boomers have so much equity and remain 50% of home buying market bc they will have little to no mortgage. A high rate environment does not impact them as much. We can say it is just supply issue but it is generational theft. Unhealthy market forcing younger folks with little wealth to buy much higher prices and relying on two high paying jobs to keep up payment. Meanwhile, employers don’t want to keep paying higher wages so Fed trying to destroy job market. Something has to give.

  82. Bystander says:

    I have seen some bad football. The Giants just played perhaps the worst I have ever seen. Destroyed on all phases of game. WTF Daboll. So much for hope in 2023.

  83. Libturd says:

    That Dumont house is fantastic. At some point, probably around the turn of the century, they replaced the countertop in the kitchen and bathroom, but left everything else, including that great shag carpeting, untouched. The local historical (or is that hysterical) society should really buy the place and just leave it exactly as is.

  84. Libturd says:


    I hit my free $10 parlay if Lamb gets a touchdown. I bet Dallas moneyline, Dallas 1st half and Lamb score.

  85. Fabius Maximus says:

    AI has no clue as to the even cause and effect, never mind the future. Here is the answer from Bing’s version of ChatGPT.

    What you are missing here is GIGO. Garbage in Garbage Out. If you want a good answer, you have to ask the right questions. There is a whole level of complex integration. It will be a whole new skill set that will have to be developed. Here is the results from my queries. Not the perfect answer, but more detail. Its a case of Drill Baby Drill into the data. build up the argument and evidence.

    ME: What are the signs for the future, which has more chance for success: Home sales are declining: Home sales have been declining since the beginning of the year. In June 2023, existing home sales fell 14.2% from the previous month. This is the biggest decline since June 2020.
    Home prices are rising, but at a slower pace: Home prices are still rising, but at a slower pace than they were earlier this year. In June 2023, the S&P CoreLogic Case-Shiller Home Price Index showed that home prices in the United States rose 19.1% year-over-year. However, this was the slowest pace of annual price growth since February 2021.

    IT: The signs for the future of the housing market are mixed. On the one hand, home sales are declining, which could indicate that the market is starting to cool down. On the other hand, home prices are still rising, albeit at a slower pace.

    It is difficult to say which of these signs is more likely to be successful in the future. It is possible that the housing market will continue to cool down, with home sales declining and prices rising at a slower pace. However, it is also possible that the market will stabilize, with home sales and prices remaining relatively flat.

    Ultimately, the future of the housing market will depend on a number of factors, including the level of interest rates, the state of the economy, and buyer sentiment.

    Here are some of the factors that could affect the future of the housing market:

    Rising interest rates: As interest rates continue to rise, it will become even more expensive to buy a home. This could lead to a further decline in home sales and prices.
    A recession: If the economy enters a recession, it could lead to a decline in demand for homes. This could also put downward pressure on prices.
    A change in buyer sentiment: If buyers become less confident in the housing market, they may be less likely to make a purchase. This could also lead to a decline in home sales and prices.
    An increase in the supply of homes for sale: If more homes come on the market, this could help to offset the impact of rising interest rates.
    Government intervention: The government could intervene in the housing market to try to stabilize prices or boost demand.
    It is important to stay up-to-date on the latest market trends so that you can make informed decisions about your home purchase or sale.

  86. Fabius Maximus says:

    Lib CX-9 update.

    So with the weather the inspector had to reschedule to late Saturday. Report came back clean with the only notes of light scratches on a door panel and all tires at 5/32 yellow, heading to red replace in the near future. Now they dinged our trade needing new tires due to edge wear. She didn’t argue. So now they are waiting for their service manager to re-evaluate their tires. Its not us flagging the tires, but the “independant” Inspector

    This is the point I step back. Mrs Fab in this mode is a force of nature. When we bought this house their side came out with the line ” The house must be worth something!” we paid 50K over the land price. She is Brutal.

    At this point we are discussing a $1000 set of tire on both cars so theoretically its a wash. If not then we get into an interesting area, Mrs Fab will drop the keys, title and closing check ( we have a bank payoff) on the table. They replace the tires we are done. Possibility to split the cost as there is some wear left on the tires, but that butts up against their 1 yr warranty. If they stick, she will walk.

    Its like playing Poker, but where most today play Holdem, her best game is Omaha HiLo 8 or Better.

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