Construction loan crisis

From the Philly Inquirer:

Bad home-building loans plague banks

As financial regulators shift their sights to the mounting problems with commercial real estate loans, many Philadelphia-area banks remain bogged down in bad loans for residential construction.

Led by construction loans, the overall percentage of problem loans – those seriously behind in payment – at the 15 largest publicly traded banks here soared to nearly 3 percent Sept. 30 from 0.89 percent a year earlier.

That increase added $1.1 billion to the loans banks will have to collect through restructuring, foreclosure, or other measures – unless the improving economy allows the borrowers to recover enough to pay their debts.

Bankers, meanwhile, even those with the strongest loan portfolios in the region, see continued problems.

“I think every bank is going to be thinking very carefully about bolstering their reserves because you just don’t know what is out there,” said Kent Lufkin, president of TF Financial Corp., of Newtown, the parent of Third Federal Savings Bank, which had the lowest rate of nonperforming assets among the area banks.

Lufkin said Third Federal stayed out of trouble during the real estate boom because it did not change its conservative lending practices. “That’s helped us today to have a lower percentage of nonperforming assets,” he said.

By contrast, Abington Bancorp Inc., of Jenkintown, followed a suburban builder with which it had previous experience into the Philadelphia condo market during the real estate boom. The move came after the company raised $71 million in a 2004 stock offering and contributed to Abington’s possession of the highest rate of nonperforming assets in the region, 5.03 percent, according to data from Bloomberg News.

“It’s our construction-loan portfolio that’s in bad shape,” said Robert White, the lender’s chief executive officer. Indeed, the delinquency rate on its residential construction loans, including loans at least 30 days past due, was 35.2 percent on Sept. 30, according to a report by Stern, Agee & Leach Inc., a research firm in Portland, Maine.

The average past-due rate on construction loans at 15 Pennsylvania and New Jersey banks Kelley tracks climbed to 15.5 percent in September from 12.1 percent in June. The figure for commercial real estate climbed to 2.9 percent from 2.6 percent.

With loan defaults still rising two years after the subprime-mortgage crisis began, all business loans – not just for commercial real estate – are getting careful attention.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Bubble, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

248 Responses to Construction loan crisis

  1. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    US Commercial Real Estate to Bottom in 2010: Survey

    The U.S. commercial real estate market, slammed by the credit squeeze and recession, is likely to hit bottom in 2010, according to a survey of industry investors, developers, lenders and consultants.

    Commercial real estate values will fall 40 percent, on average, from their peaks in mid-2007, and up to 50 percent in some sectors, according to the 2010 edition of Emerging Trends in Real Estate, released on Thursday by the Urban Land Institute and PricewaterhouseCoopers.

    It will be the worst commercial real estate decline since the Great Depression, eclipsing the 1990s savings-and-loan crisis, according to the report.

  2. me@work says:

    grim, 3

    so much for f*cking on the living room floor, kitchen table or hallway.

    :)

  3. Schumpeter says:

    grim (3)-

    Neat. Wright meets Bauhaus.

  4. Essex says:

    That Schumpeter…..what a nice guy….

  5. Essex says:

    Grim amazing house. From certain angles it has an institutional feel. Not sure how these do in resale. Not the plush colonial now is it?

  6. NJCoast says:

    I’ll take the house overlooking the Coral Sea.

  7. Commanderbobnj says:

    Grim:
    Without question, a beautifully-designed timeless home : Re-

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703932904574511811188479186.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_realestate

    BUT, an energy waster : Very hard, If not impossible to insulate. Besides, it is very Cold in the winter and a ‘Hot-box’ in the summer…and like most Wright-inspired houses, constant problems with those zero-pitched flat roofs….not to mention the build-up (weight stress) of snow & ice in our northern climates..

    Commander Bob

  8. Shore Guy says:

    Coral Sea? Heck, I would take a thatch hut overlooking the Coral Sea.

  9. Shore Guy says:

    “the delinquency rate on its residential construction loans, including loans at least 30 days past due, was 35.2 percent on Sept. 30”

    Egads! BFF candidate?

  10. Shore Guy says:

    Essex,

    He does seem to be a nice guy but where did he come from? Also, have you noticed that when he showed up Clot disappeared? We better send Stu to investigate what happened to Clot. Was this new guy responsible? Is clot locked in some dungeon? I am certain that Stu will get to the bottom of things.

  11. Orion says:

    Must, must, must view Harvard professor Niall Ferguson interviewed by Charlie Rose last night. Running time 26 min. or read the transcript.

    http://www.charlierose.com/

  12. Cindy says:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/1644d08e-f450-11dc-aaad-0000779fd2ac.html?_i_referralObject=11081397&fromSearch=n

    Orion @ 14 – You might also enjoy the 50 minute interview with Martin Wolf from 10/31 titled: The Historian’s Perspective: Does Capitalism Have a Future?

    One point I found interesting was Ferguson’s reminder that China is surrounded by India, Russia and Japan – just to name a few. We are a bit of an island here in North America. Something tells me a Russian/Chinese alliance would not be good for us.

  13. frank says:

    Where’s the recession???? 40% increase???

    Big Bonuses Are Back for Many on Street

    Incentive pay on Wall Street is set to rise by about 40% as stronger financial markets collide with the political backlash over bonuses, according to a closely watched survey set to be released Thursday.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125737807967629459.html

  14. BC Bob says:

    Raymond Babbitt is back.

  15. Shore Guy says:

    “Russian/Chinese alliance would not be good for us.”

    One has a better chance of a Red Sox/Yankees alliance. In the final analysis, we have more in common with the Russia than Russia has with China and Russia (with a declining population and lots of Leibensraum, so to speak) has more to fear from China than we do.

    With Russia to the north and India to thesouthwest, and Islamic states to the west (and a restive Islamic population in its own west), China hasrrason to feel a bit paranoid.

  16. #14 – orion – Thanks for the link. I read the transcript, very interesting interview.

  17. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Well I am manning up and admitting I’ve learned my lesson re shorting this market. I am out. All I’ve succeeded in doing is losing a big chunk of $ and making Charles Schwab rich on transaction fees:)

    Individual stocks, short etf’s, double shorts etf’s, its just doesn’t matter you win Master Ben, Timmay and Lloyd Buttfein. I’ll preserve what I have left and wait for a collapse to pile in on the trajectory then role whatever I have left into gold.

    Only thing I can take solace in is my 401-k statements are back to 301-k levels for the time being:)

  18. BC Bob says:

    “Big Bonuses Are Back for Many on Street”

    Maybe they can buy the 20 Mil, empty houses?

  19. Outofstater says:

    #22 Yeah, the game has always been rigged, but rigged in ways we could understand and still make a buck or two. This new game of government swooping down with no notice and changing the all the rules is too much for me too.

  20. Shore Guy says:

    BC,

    There ya go. There oughtta be a law that mandates that bank and Wall Street bonuses get paid in vacant houses.

  21. relo says:

    25: Don’t give them the empties, I nominate negative cash-flow rental properties.

  22. Shore Guy says:

    “This new game of government swooping down with no notice and changing the all the rules is too much for me too.”

    Mancontent! Do your patriotic duty and give up some money in transaction fees and .00001% passbook and .00002% money markeet accounts to help fund a poor banker’s bonus. This is no time to be self centered. Your nation’s finance sector needs you.

  23. Initial unemployment claims @ 512k.

  24. BC Bob says:

    Shore [25],

    Better idea, when the fed is ready to mop up,[yeah,right] all bonuses are paid from fed’s balance sheet. After all, there is demand for Maiden Lane Partners and decaying, empty, CRE in Oklahoma.

  25. Outofstater says:

    #27 My nation’s finance sector can go stuff it. It just isn’t fun anymore. At this point, I’m thinking of investing in canned cat food and maybe some US Savings Bonds. I mean, how bad does it have to be before the gov’t defaults on bonds your grandma gave you? Oh, wait…

  26. That’s 20k below the previous week’s revised numbers but still very very high.

  27. Shore Guy says:

    What a change a RE bubble pop makes:

    http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/HomebuyingGuide/homebuyingguidedyn.aspx?cp-documentid=22451914&GT1=33010

    Remodeling? It’s a waste of money
    One of the big myths of homeownership is that upgrades are investments. In reality, renovating is consumption spending.

  28. Shore Guy says:

    “bonuses are paid from fed’s balance sheet.”

    I love it! After all, the banks insist there is value in them thar assets.

    Time to start calling our congresscritters.

  29. Cindy says:

    Shore – @ 20 – You have to go to minute 30:00 or so to catch the reference. The idea that some say it is inevitable that we war with China – then the discussion that “There is nothing to make you feel you are encircled like being encircled.”

  30. BC Bob says:

    OOS [30],

    How long before the new mandate; all 401k $ must be invested in treas sec..

  31. Shore Guy says:

    “some say it is inevitable that we war with China”

    Oh, we may well fight China, but I doubt it would be a China and Russia alliance vs the US, except, perhaps, for some temporary alliance aimed at grabbing some pacific islands with the goal of limiting the US Navy’s ability to project power in the Western Pacific.

    In the long run, China is encircled and Russia is in some ways the low-hanging fruit with the land and resources China needs and with tough-to-maintain supply lines from he Urals west to the Pacific.

  32. Mikeinwaiting says:

    tosh 31 Still sporting that 5 handle should be bad news for the markets. But these days who knows.

  33. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [22] dissident

    I have been thinking about master LPs for pipelines (the sort of moated business Buffett loves—Damn, I should have held my BNI shares longer), but my concern with any moated infrastructure stock like a railroad or a pipeline is that it is an easy target for outright nationalization or implicit nationalization by regulation to force it into a quasi-nonprofit status.

    Ordinarily, I would shrug that off as paranoid thinking, but there are a lot of GM and Chrysler bondholders who would tell me otherwise. And seeing moves made by Rangel’s committee, which is playing whack-a-mole whenever someone starts actually using a tax break and making money (e.g., black liquor), and remembering that the pipline industry was made a whipping boy for the Hill a couple of decades ago, I am not so sure such thinking is farfetched anymore.

    Back to work, lots of deadlines today.

  34. Shore Guy says:

    Nom,

    What is a master LP?

    Sounds like something I bought in the 70s.

  35. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [35] BC

    That trial balloon was floated some months back. It crashed and burned.

  36. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [40] shore

    Here are a couple mentioned on SeekingAlpha, and in an article I read in MSM.

    KMP and BWP (I am looking at BWP).

    There is also an ETF they mentioned, MTP.

  37. 3b says:

    #31 Were the previous weeks numbers revided up or down?

  38. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Shore 36 in the long run it is Russia & us. That is if the Russians are smart. Exactly right analysis.

  39. Outofstater says:

    #35 BC – Now there’s a cheery thought! I was thinking more along the lines of the Feds means-testing our 401k’s. If you’ve saved and done well, they’ll tax it to oblivion while the doltish overspenders get bailed out. Sort of like what’s happening now.

  40. BC Bob says:

    relo [39],

    There is not one administration nor central banker that will heed the advice of Tall Paul, at this time. Everybody should realize this, embrace it and position yourself accordingly.

  41. BC Bob says:

    OOS [45],

    Yes, that’s another scenario.

  42. Shore Guy says:

    “embrace it and position yourself accordingly.”

    Bent over a straight-backed chair?

    Do we need to squeal like pigs too?

  43. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [309][last thread] qwerty

    That was a classic!!! I loved the quote at the end. A great example of NewSpeak.

    “WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama’s economic recovery program saved 935 jobs at the Southwest Georgia Community Action Council, an impressive success story for the stimulus plan. Trouble is, only 508 people work there. . . .

    But officials defended the practice of counting raises as saved jobs.

    “If I give you a raise, it is going to save a portion of your job,” HHS spokesman Luis Rosero said. . . .”

    A portion of your job. Classic.

    Some animals are more equal than others.

  44. Cindy says:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125738375151929771.html

    Clash Looms on Banks

    “His efforts come as he prepares for a tough re-election battle in 2010.
    Mr. Dodd has been criticized for being too cozy with the banking industry in the past.”

    You just can’t make this stuff up…

  45. Shore Guy says:

    Nom,

    You do realize that the administration likely does not care a wit whether every single “saved or created job” gets debunked, right? In the end, they got 2-3 days of headlines trumpeting their success. Any corrections will be deep inside the ppers few of us are reading nowadays. Details. Just nitpicking details. The facts don’t matter, don’t you know, when under the influence of hopium.

    Was it Robert Palmer who sang about the cult of personality?

  46. BC Bob says:

    “Do we need to squeal like pigs too?”

    Shore,

    Not necessarily. However, you have to get hard. No John, it’s assets.

  47. BC Bob says:

    #27.

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [45]OOS

    Gotta weigh in here, and then back to work.

    I don’t see how a 401(k) can be means-tested. Instead, I think what will happen is, for example, your SS may be means tested due to income. 401(k) income can’t be avoided for long because of required min. distribution rules. So that money comes out, and is taxed at marginal rates, and if you have enough, your SS is cut.

    There are ways around that under the current rules.

    One final note for those who are leaving a job: You are now permitted to roll over your 401(k) into a Roth IRA. So it may behoove you to consider what the tax effect will be of doing that. I can’t make any suggestions as to what is better, but, for example, a person who is out of work 1n 2009 will be in the lowest tax bracket in 2010 if he doesn’t find work, so that hit will not be hard, and the future draws will be tax exempt (assuming Congress doesn’t trash the Roth in the future).

    Now, I really gotta get to work.

  49. Cindy says:

    Bob – #27 – 27th World Series for NY?

  50. Cindy says:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=291104110&prov=ap

    Ecstasy in the Bronx! Yankees win title No. 27

  51. tbiggs says:

    I’m only average on financial predictions, so I feel good that I moved a big chunk of our savings into Third Federal shortly after the crisis began. I did look at their annual report and it seemed like they were not caught up in the mania. My only concern was their exposure to commercial/construction loans; so far, so good.

    I sent a congratulatory email to the bank’s president when they announced that they refused to take TARP funds. He replied that many people had the same reaction.

  52. Schumpeter says:

    shore (51)-

    Living Colour.

  53. Shore Guy says:

    BC,

    Right song, wrong images. This seems to fit better:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDBz_naagJE&feature=related

  54. BC Bob says:

    Shore [62],

    I stand corrected.

  55. Shore Guy says:

    I guess that makes us the Children of the Grave, and even Paranoid.

  56. BC Bob says:

    Schump,

    Any word from the fields?

    “Oh when them cotton bolls get rotten, You can’t pick very much cotton.”

  57. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom[54];

    My problem with the Roth conversion is that you pay now (goosing current tax revenues, nach) and get a promise of future tax exemption. A promise that may or may not be kept by some desperate future administration. I doubt they’d completely reneg on the deal, but the Roth is a 30-year plan, with the real benefits back-end loaded. Suppose in 15 years the Gov’t decides that everything you’ve earned up to that point can be withdrawn tax free when you retire, but no further earnings. I’d have been really wishing I’d taken the tax deduction way back then.

    Of course at the income levels that make buying a house a rational decision, Roth v. Traditional IRA is a moot discussion anyway – you’re means-tested out of both.

  58. Shore Guy says:

    BC,

    Although Seeds seems to sum up my general feelings lately.

  59. Shore Guy says:

    Snd, with any luck Christie can put the state Back in Black

  60. HEHEHE says:

    Nom,

    You don’t expect “just compensation”?

    Who knows how far these wackos will go.

  61. Brimstone (formerly kettle1) says:

    Mike. Shore

    a US Russian alliance would be A very smart move. Start with resource partnerships as a long term trust building measure. We would comiment each other nicely. To bad that there are to many coldwar mndsets left in power.

    A US-Russian alliance could be very beneficial for both as the competition for resources causes geopolitics to heat up. It could be the new euro-us alliance that was so beneficial to us during the coldwar and provide strategic advantage in competion with china as well as middle east issues

  62. Schumpeter says:

    BC (66)-

    Can’t be watching the fields, though I hear the cotton crop in Syria is good.

    Too busy trying to time out the dump cycle on REITs:

    “The last step in this new REIT game, after dumping the unpayable debt converted into follow-on offering stock is to push the fake dividends and shift the tax liabilities of said fake dividends from the entity that generated the liability on to the investor. Normally, if the cash is not paid out, the REIT would have to pay the taxes on it. Now the REIT can keep the cash, dilute the stock by offering the pump and dump secondary, then pass the tax liability off to the guys that were suckered into buying the stuff, most likely by sell side brokers and analysts.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/heres-big-company-bailout-taxpayer-even-taxpayers-missed

  63. make money says:

    Are you guys NUTS. Never trust the Russians. Did you forget that they wanted to nukes not too long ago.

    Just bring the troops home from all over the world. Stop spending immediately. Abolish the fed. Income tax holiday for 24 months. Watch everyone go back to work.

    Unemployment benefits are $2300 per month in NJ. Most people making around 30K are now getting more take home money then they used to when they were working.

    Discouraged worker has become discouraged nation that now things that they should form alliances with Russia.

    WTF!!!!

  64. Schumpeter says:

    Breaking news: Phony unveils “deed-for-lease” program. Deed your crapshack over to them, and you can lease your house back for one year.

    We will now get to see how skilled a property manager (hardy har) Phony is.

    When this finally ends, we’ll be back to the 16th Century.

  65. Schumpeter says:

    I’d love to deed my house over to Phony, then stiff them on the rent.

  66. BC Bob says:

    “Can’t be watching the fields”

    Clot,

    I guarantee your buddies in Memphis are.

  67. BC Bob says:

    “Are you guys NUTS.”

    Make,

    Too bad you didn’t hear what I was called, when I started to get out of USD and into gold in 2003.

  68. a US Russian alliance would be A very smart move.

    Hell, we’re both oligarchies as is.
    Would this mean Russia would get a huge influx of strippers from the US?

  69. Brimstone (formerly kettle1) says:

    Make

    look at a Russian relationship like the joint mafia operations. Always keep an ace up your sleave, accept your core differences and partner for the greater benefit of both nations

  70. Schumpeter says:

    BC (76)-

    Those guys think Weather Channel is the most dope thing on TV.

  71. Schumpeter says:

    I got it: Phony will use ACORN as their management/collection agent.

    Problem solved.

  72. make money says:

    BC,

    You know where I’m sitting but I have no love for the Ruskies.

    Tosh,

    You must not have been to Russia their strippers are hand picked, tall, beautiful girls who expire when they turn 23. Here they seem to pick up the trade at 28 and are very sloppy.

  73. NJGator says:

    I’m sure you guys are all sorry you are missing this:

    Rangel rally at City Hall

    Another day of rumors about Charlie Rangel’s imminent departure has been capped by word of another big show of support for the embattled Ways and Means chairman — this one a massive rally at New York’s City Hall planned for Thursday.

    The “Press conference to support Congressman Charlie Rangel and express appreciation for his many contributions to New York,” organized by longtime Rangel ally/PR impresario Ken Sunshine begins at 10 a.m.

    The guest list:

    –Rev. Calvin O. Butts, III, Pastor, Abyssinian Baptist Church
    –David Jones, President, Community Service Society for New York
    –Herbert Pardes, MD, President & CEO, New York Presbyterian Hospital
    –Kenneth Davis, President & CEO, Mount Sinai Hospital
    –Denis M. Hughes, President, New York State AFL-CIO
    –Hon. David N. Dinkins, Former Mayor of New York City
    –Hon. H. Carl McCall, Former Comptroller of New York State
    –Michael Mulgrew, President, United Federation of Teachers – New York
    –Kathryn S. Wylde, President & CEO, Partnership for New York City
    –Steven Spinola, President, The Real Estate Board of New York
    –Chung-Wha Hong, Executive Director, The NY Immigration Coalition
    –Moises Perez, Founder and Executive Director, Alianza Dominicana

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/1109/Rangel_rally_at_City_Hall.html

  74. Schumpeter says:

    gator (83)-

    Toss a grenade into that crowd, and a lot of problems get solved at once.

  75. Schumpeter says:

    To the black helicopter crowd: my delivery system for #84 is still broken and in the garage.

  76. #82 – make – I used to be a regular reader of the Exile, so I’ve read the stories.

    Russia might make a pretty cool vaca spot.
    Maybe Poland first though.

  77. Schumpeter says:

    When will FedCo get charged with insider trading?

  78. make money says:

    look at a Russian relationship like the joint mafia operations. Always keep an ace up your sleave, accept your core differences and partner for the greater benefit of both nations.

    Problem. We don’t have anyone capable of keeping an ace up the sleeve. even the guy that bought the nets said that primary reason was so that his Moskow team can learn how the NBA teams train, coach, watch video, keep stats on all aspects of game and then use that data to scout.

    Russians are smarter and hungrier than we are at this point in history. We don’t have a Kennedy or a Reagan.

  79. BC Bob says:

    Make,

    It wasn’t pertaining to the Russians, just regarding NUTS.

  80. we says:

    The dollar is not fiat money it is backed up by plutonium, and a willingness to use it.

  81. Orion says:

    NJ labor market, y-o-y, seasonally adjusted:

    http://lwd.state.nj.us/lpaapp/app;jsessionid=c4fe707a062d0c98067d18e71211:VuZ9

    Draw your own conclusions.

  82. HEHEHE says:

    Clot,

    Why bother even trying? I’ve been trying that for the past six months. You’d have an easier time figuring out nuclear fusion in your basement.

  83. In completely off topic news,
    Chrysler announces 5yr plan for new models. The design house of ‘supplied by Fiat’ seems to be pretty popular. All those tax payer billions so Fiat could acquire a dealer network.
    A note to Fiat/Alfa. I will buy an Alfa, I won’t buy a an Alfa badged as a Chrysler/Dodge/etc. Just an fyi.
    Also; Toyota out of F1, along with Bridgestone. Renault considering dropping as well. 2k10 should be an interesting season.

  84. Stu says:

    ShoreGuy (13):

    “I am certain that Stu will get to the bottom of things.”

    You better watch it or I’ll start confusing you with Jamil or Qwerty.

  85. HEHEHE says:

    Clot,

    Everytime one of those frigging inflated REIT stocks look like they’ve topped out the clowns take them even higher.

  86. Happy Daze says:

    REIT on bro!

  87. jamil says:

    comrade:

    “program saved 935 jobs at the Southwest Georgia Community Action Council, an impressive success story for the stimulus plan. Trouble is, only 508 people work there. . . .”

    No surprise here. I bet those missing 427 workers exist at least in ACORN voter rolls and voted for O.

  88. Stu says:

    Jamil:

    Blah blah blah, ACORN. Blah Blah blah, ACORN!

    Enough already. We believe you! Now go back to your Drudge report and leave us alone.

  89. Shore Guy says:

    Stu,

    You know my comment was tongue in cheek, right?

  90. yikes says:

    27.
    that is all.

  91. chicagofinance says:

    O: off-hand…why?

    Orion says:
    November 5, 2009 at 8:10 am
    Must, must, must view Harvard professor Niall Ferguson interviewed by Charlie Rose last night. Running time 26 min. or read the transcript.

  92. Shore Guy says:

    Where has Gary been?

  93. chicagofinance says:

    l: In what vein do you mean this comment?

    lisoosh says:
    November 4, 2009 at 9:39 am
    I want to be Niall Ferguson’s b!tch.
    He had Charlie Rose nearly apoplectic last night.

  94. Shore Guy says:

    Anoher Bernie from NY is going to be a guest of the government:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8345292.stm

  95. make money says:

    Shore,

    15 people arrested means more bonus money to go around for everyone else. This guys are like pirates when it comes to spliting the heist.

  96. BC Bob says:

    “27. that is all.”

    Yikes,

    BOOYAAA.

  97. Stu says:

    Shore Guy:

    Of course! I’m not always a dolt.

  98. Shore Guy says:

    Just checking.

  99. wallies says:

    My former co-worker in NNJ got laid off one year ago. He’s still collecting unemployment, on his third or fourth extension. He asked the unemployment office how much longer he can expect to collect. They said approx. 36 weeks or he can find part-time work and unemp. would cover the difference between the total benefit amount and his wages. He’s not even considering part-time work. Why bother if you can sit at home and collect the same amt. of money? Maybe it would make the benefit last a little longer but who cares? They’ll probably just extend it anyway. NJ creates disincentives to being productive.

  100. yikes says:

    Grim, what’s the deal with Tennessee? Is that a done deal yet?

    Will the Christie victory change your mind? ha.

  101. yikes says:

    lisoosh says:
    November 4, 2009 at 9:36 am

    Fingers crossed that Christie grows a pair and just does what needs to be done.

    but if he grows a pair, will he even notice? How will he see them over that jabba the gut?

    guy’s gotta be pushing four bills.

  102. Ben says:

    “Too bad you didn’t hear what I was called, when I started to get out of USD and into gold in 2003.”

    Bob, you shoulda heard what I was called dumping my remaining net wealth into Gold/Silver a year ago to the day. I even sold a bunch of my guitars. My only regret. I wish I bought more mining stocks than I did last November. Had I dumped all my money into those stocks, I wouldn’t be on this forum anymore whining about how I still can’t buy a house…for cash that is…

  103. yikes says:

    anyone seen that fountain of misinformation jamil lately?

    BI: Stock Market
    as
    Jamil: Politics

    whatever each of these clowns says, go the other way. neither has the foggiest idea what’s going on.

  104. BC Bob says:

    “My only regret.”

    Ben [115],

    No regrets. Funny, when we are right, we never have enough of a position. On the flip side, when we are wrong, we always have too much of a position.

    What did the monkey say while peeing over a cliff?

  105. Ben says:

    “They said approx. 36 weeks or he can find part-time work and unemp. would cover the difference between the total benefit amount and his wages. He’s not even considering part-time work. Why bother if you can sit at home and collect the same amt. of money?”

    I have friends who have been on unemployment for a long long time now. They have no desire to get off it. Why not? Because they are working in construction/painting and getting paid under the table. They now make more than they did when they were officially employed. These days, with no accountability from the unemployment office, it pays to get fired. I’m consistently baffled by the lefts insistence that we need to keep extending unemployment benefits. I wouldn’t be surprised if 10% of the economy reverts to payments under the table to keep the unemployment gravy train rolling.

  106. Ben says:

    “No regrets. Funny, when we are right, we never have enough of a position. On the flip side, when we are wrong, we always have too much of a position.”

    I really can’t complain. Most of my money went into Physical Silver last Novemember at $9-11. I didn’t have enough guts to wager it all with mining stocks.

  107. BC Bob says:

    “I didn’t have enough guts to wager it all with mining stocks.”

    Ben [119],

    First of all, great silver buy. It’s going to the moon.

    What did the monkey say while peeing over a cliff?

    Wow, a little goes a long way.

  108. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [67] anon

    you are forgetting that means-testing ends for conversions from traditional IRA to Roth in 2010.

    Anyone who loaded up on nondeductible IRA contributions (not means tested) for the last few years gets a backdoor pass by the means test for those years.

  109. chicagofinance says:

    Maybe this reflects that the job market has bottomed….no pun intended…doh!

    chicagofinance says:
    November 5, 2009 at 1:04 pm
    The end is nigh…WTF?
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Hundreds-Line-Up-for-CharminR-prnews-3157922920.html?x=0&.v=2

  110. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    lisoosh,

    NJ Governor’s office has been relocated to the Straits of Messina, right between Scylla and Charybdis.

    I don’t expect much.

  111. DL says:

    Ok, how many of you got the reference to Scylla and Charybdis? I continue to be amazed at the breadth of education on this board.

  112. BC Bob says:

    chi [121],

    How does one answer when one’s spouse asks; Did you have a sh*tty day today?

  113. DL says:

    The Niall Ferguson interview has got me deeply depressed. I started with Bombay gin martinis as soon as I got home and am now topping it off with a cru bourgeois. We are truely fcuk’d.

  114. Shore Guy says:

    A couple of monsterous Greeks.

  115. John says:

    I know at least 10,000 ass wipes who could do this job.

    chicagofinance says:
    November 5, 2009 at 1:06 pm
    Maybe this reflects that the job market has bottomed….no pun intended…doh!

    chicagofinance says:
    November 5, 2009 at 1:04 pm
    The end is nigh…WTF?
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Hundreds-Line-Up-for-CharminR-prnews-3157922920.html?x=0&.v=2

  116. make money says:

    10K for 5 weeks worth of work is not bad. I wish I knew earlier I would have sent some of my tennants that keep come short every month.

  117. Schumpeter says:

    HE (96)-

    Hey, I’m hoping the shills and the dupes who buy this crap take the REITs to the moon.

    Gives ’em that much further to fall…which they will.

  118. confused in NJ says:

    125.DL says:
    November 5, 2009 at 1:16 pm
    Ok, how many of you got the reference to Scylla and Charybdis? I continue to be amazed at the breadth of education on this board.

    Between a Rock & a Hardplace.

  119. HEHEHE says:

    Clot,

    I agree but I feel like a little kid who’s had his mom slam the cookie jar lid down on his hand one too many times:)

  120. sean says:

    Just get’s better and better.

    Fannie Mae to rent out homes instead foreclosing

    November 5, 2009 (AP)

    Fannie Mae to allow troubled borrowers to hand over deeds to homes, let former owners rent.

    Thousands of borrowers on the verge of foreclosure will soon have the option of renting their homes from Fannie Mae, under a policy announced Thursday.

    The government-controlled company, through its new “Deed for Lease” program, will allow borrowers to transfer ownership to Fannie Mae and sign a one-year lease, with month-to-month extensions after that.

    The program will “eliminate some of the uncertainty of foreclosure, keeps families and tenants in their homes during a transitional period, and helps to stabilize neighborhoods and communities,” Jay Ryan, a Fannie Mae vice president, said in a statement.

  121. BC Bob says:

    “keeps families and tenants in their homes during a transitional period, and helps to stabilize neighborhoods and communities,” Jay Ryan, a Fannie Mae vice president, said in a statement.”

    Sean [135],

    Total BS. Simply, another bank bailout.

  122. prtraders2000 says:

    118

    Co-worker just related a story to me about a neighbor who asked her for help in setting up his business for tax filing. Guy wants to hold off a little longer since they just extended his unemployment benefits. Meanwhile, he’s been running his biz, not reporting anything, for nearly two years! He was a Wall Street guy, so at least the unemployment benefits are out of NY.

  123. HEHEHE says:

    It gets better and better:

    $45 Billion Boondoggle of Which $33 Billion Goes To Homebuilders

    The Senate approved yet another plan to stimulate the economy. It’s called throwing $33 billion at homebuilders. This is of course doing nothing but giving money to the greedy pigs that helped create this mess. However, that is the way Washington works.

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid even had the gall to brag about it. Please consider Senate Approves Extended U.S. Homebuyer Tax Credit.

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/11/45-billion-boondoggle-of-which-33.html

  124. The program will “eliminate some of the uncertainty of foreclosure’

    I fail to see the uncertainty in a foreclosure; you can’t afford the house and now you can’t live there anymore… pretty straight forward.

  125. maylook1day says:

    “Deed for Lease” – maybe this will chase the shadow inventory into the open.

    enough already – pull out the bulldozers and be done with it all.

  126. maylook1day says:

    Fannie can side step having to move on foreclosure and maybe write the stuff down and look towards a future sale – best of both worlds

  127. Rich52 says:

    [135]

    Brilliant. What makes the bank think the deadbeats are going to pay their rent? If they were already making their payments they woudln’t be in this situation in the first place. Although, I guess it makes some sense since many borrowers are currently living mortgage/rent free. I don’t see these people all of the sudden start to pony up rent money for a place they have been living in for free.

  128. relo says:

    139: I think the real uncertainty is more along the lines of – WTF are we going to do about all these houses that would otherwise be vacant and how do we begin to get out of this mess? Keeping in form this allows them to keep kicking the can down the street another year and hope. What are the odds a year from now this too gets extended?

  129. chicagofinance says:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aVe4UiS61yuk

    Regarding this new batch of fcukfaces….my buddy whose wife is a recruiter for lawyers….

    Wow. Not only does xxxxx know the guy from Ropes that was arrested, but she also had him interviewing for her at another firm. Doesn’t look like he’s getting that job…

  130. Stu says:

    “The whole thing reeks and the Senate knows it. Note that Senator Christopher Bond called it a waste of money but there was not a single “No Vote”. The bill passed 98-0 undoubtedly because the homebuilders padded the pockets of those voting for it with campaign contributions. This is the way Congress “works”.”

    Only the Congress?

    This is how all government works in America.

    Was it any surprise that JNJ announced their major layoffs on election day? Wanna bet that they were pissed at Corzine’s treatment.

    It really doesn’t matter which party is in office. The corporate interests will simply shift their lobbying to whomever is most likely to win.

    This occurs at the local and county level as well.

    Meanwhile, the Jamil’s of this world are fixated on ACORN.

  131. Stu says:

    In other news, DJIA broke 10K again.

  132. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [125] DL

    Actually, it is a pretty common (albeit old) reference.

    FWIW, I am not sure I can actually pronounce it properly (not sure about imprimatur either—never know where to put the accent).

    But thanks for the compliment. Nice that someone here thinks I’m ejookated.

  133. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [144] chifi

    There are only a few Boston institutions that I like to see get hammered. Ropes and Chains is one of them.

  134. relo says:

    142: Maybe at least it keeps ’em from trashing the place on the way out the door? For a year.

  135. Schumpeter says:

    When will Phony sign their deed over to us, the taxpayer?

    Were it up to me, I’d give ’em 15 minutes to leave the building, then drop a daisy cutter on the place.

    Come to think of it, I’d pair that daisy cutter with another one on the Federal Reserve.

  136. Schumpeter says:

    relo (149)-

    Dream on. People will trash the places, stiff Phony and hang out in them until a writ of eviction is served.

    However, the first thing you can count on is Fraudy losing track of the properties they end up owning.

    Some of these deadbeats may end up squatting in their former homes for years.

  137. Schumpeter says:

    I think it’s really time to reintroduce debtor prisons.

  138. HEHEHE says:

    “What makes the bank think the deadbeats are going to pay their rent?”

    Because it’s in the lease!!! Hahaha, get it:)

    Stupid gubmint, banks are not going after foreclosure via the courts but now they are going to send their legal department out to small claims courts to collect on a lease:) Classic.

  139. Schumpeter says:

    One day closer to oblivion.

    We are so totally fcuked.

  140. skep-tic says:

    home buyer tax credit passed both houses almost unanimously. I thought GOP at least was trying to bring back fiscal conservatism. Pathetic.

  141. House Whine says:

    137- Recently the NJ police arrested a few people who had collected unemployment while actually being employed. I don’t know if the people who were arrested had been paid under the table or not. But it’s just kind of a crappy thing to take the money from the unemployment funds if you really are working, not to mention illegal.

  142. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Why do I get the sense that a certain ALJ is gonna get taken to the woodshed?

    “A billionaire living in New Zealand has won a legal battle to avoid paying tens of millions of dollars in New York city taxes.

    A New York state administrative law judge has decided that billionaire Julian Robertson did not spend enough days in New York City to be liable for $US26.7 million ($NZ37.1m) in city income taxes in 2000 and another $US21m (NZ29.1m) in interest for that year alone.

    State tax auditors had tried to show that the financier crossed the threshold of 183 days as a New York city resident, the New York Law Journal reported. But Dennis Galliher, a judge with the Division of Tax Appeals, concluded that state tax auditors did not conclusively prove their case that Mr Robertson was a New York City resident for purposes of personal income tax.

    Mr Robertson and his wife Josie earlier this year gifted 15 major artworks — including two Picassos — to the Auckland Art Gallery. The $NZ200m donation also included significant paintings by Paul Cezanne, Henri Matisse, Paul Gauguin and Piet Mondrian dating from the late 19th to mid 20th centuries.

    The Robertsons said at the time: “We have had a lifelong love affair with New Zealand. We love Auckland”.

    Forbes magazine last September 9 estimated Mr Robertson’s wealth at $US2.2 billion. He co-founded Tiger Management LLC — the world’s largest hedge fund — but has pursued a second career in New Zealand, developing the Kauri Cliffs and Cape Kidnappers golf resorts and the iconic Te Awa and Dry River wineries.

    In 2000, Mr Robertson was chairman of Tiger Management, but Mr Galliher said the city failed to prove he was a “statutory” resident of New York for 183 days in a calendar year, which would have made him subject to city personal income taxes.

    At issue in the tax case was how many days Robertson spent at his Central Park South apartment — the couple also spent time at their estate in Locust Valley, Long Island; at their home in the Hamptons at the east end of Long Island; in Sun Valley, Idaho; in Australia; New Zealand; and other locations overseas.

    They claimed the billionaire was mistaken about four days when his records showed him out of the city, but Mr Galliher disagreed — the Robertsons were outside New York City on all four disputed days .

    The Department of Taxation and Finance has 30 days to appeal Mr Galliher’s ruling to the Division of Tax Appeals.”

    NYC will almost certainly appeal. And the Division will get some phone calls from the Governor’s office about this. Look for a very ham-fisted reversal.

  143. skep-tic says:

    #45

    “I was thinking more along the lines of the Feds means-testing our 401k’s. If you’ve saved and done well, they’ll tax it to oblivion while the doltish overspenders get bailed out. Sort of like what’s happening now.”

    I am highly skeptical of the long term sanctity of 401k’s as well. I am keeping most of my retirement money going forward outside of 401k for greater liquidity.

  144. skep-tic says:

    #67

    “My problem with the Roth conversion is that you pay now (goosing current tax revenues, nach) and get a promise of future tax exemption. A promise that may or may not be kept by some desperate future administration.”

    totally agree

  145. NJGator says:

    Nom 157 – Not related to the tax case, but the golf courses mentioned in the article were shot for Golf Digest within the last year or so and are absolutely stunning.

  146. stan says:

    SAC is being mentioned in the insider trading case now. Wow.

  147. #161 – SAC is being mentioned

    Uh oh.

    /peers over cubicle

  148. BC Bob says:

    “SAC is being mentioned in the insider trading case now. Wow.”

    Stan,

    True or just rumors?

  149. HEHEHE says:

    Dealbreaker :

    Reuters: Choo Beng Lee Was Insider Trading While Working At SAC Capital

    http://dealbreaker.com/2009/11/reuters-choo-beng-lee-was-insi.php

  150. Shore Guy says:

    Anyone with access to a TV have any news on the shootings at Ft. Hood?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8345713.stm

  151. skep-tic says:

    #151

    “However, the first thing you can count on is Fraudy losing track of the properties they end up owning.

    Some of these deadbeats may end up squatting in their former homes for years.”

    sounds like a law school exam question: “P squats in his foreclosed home for 5 yrs. Does he acquire the home by adverse possession? Discuss.”

  152. #164 – Some very funny people over at DB.

  153. stan says:

    BC-

    Just smoke thus far I imagine, no fire.

  154. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [158] skep

    the problem isn’t the sanctity, but the fact that this is income you will eventually have to recognize, and it will hurt when you do.

    You are correct to avoid 401(k) for retirement savings unless you are in a very high bracket already or you get matching contributions. They are a sucker bet, IMHO, and only good for asset protection purposes (which you can get with a self-directed IRA and control fees better).

    The better bet is an aggressive asset protection and paper divestment strategy that includes stripping transactions. Remember, “poor”, or rather the appearance of poor, is the new upper middle class.

  155. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [167] skep

    No

    This has been another edition of Easy Answers to Easy Questions.

  156. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [159] skep

    On the Roth, I plan to hedge my bets. It is by necessity since I have only a one-time bite here, and it won’t be more than a small percentage of overall retirement funds. Still, that will be the aggressive portfolio, and if it pays off big, and isn’t taxed into oblivion, I win big. Otherwise, it is a gambling loss.

    As for means-testing, we have to wait to see what they propose. Unless they have look-backs and averages, you can clean out a Roth in Y1, and be eligible for benes in Y2. Or just figure out when you can take w/o penalty, and do so prior to actually retiring (e.g., start drawing down IRAs after 55, well in advance of SS at 67, and stash the cash).

  157. 3b says:

    #146 Somebody knows tomorrow’s unemployment #’s are bogus?

  158. Shore Guy says:

    “You are correct to avoid 401(k) for retirement savings”

    Sounds about right, except for Solo 401(k) plans.

  159. BC Bob says:

    3b [173],

    IMO, the headline # will be better than expected and has been leaked. As always, the devil is in the details.

  160. John says:

    Girardi helps accident victim after winning World Series

    After leading the Yankees to their 27th World Championship, Joe Girardi’s night was far from over.

    The Yankees manager was driving home from The Bronx early this morning when he pulled over to help a female motorist who crashed into a wall on the Cross County Parkway in Eastchester, according to LoHud.com.

    “The guy wins the World Series, what does he do? He stops to help,” Westchester County police officer Kathleen Cristiano, who was among the first to arrive at the accident scene, told the paper. “It was totally surreal.”

    Cristiano was one of officers at an intoxicated checkpoint and saw Girardi pass by her 15 minutes before the incident. Andy Pettitte, who was the winning pitcher in last night’s 7-3 win over the Phillies, had also passed by.

    “He was jumping up and down, trying to flag me down,” Cristiano, a Yankees fan, said. “You don’t expect him standing by a car accident trying to help.”

    The driver in the accident, Marie Henry, was able to get out of the car by the time officers arrived and declined a trip to the hospital. Girardi ran across all lanes of the often-busy parkway to aid Henry, who did not know she was being assisted by the latest manager to win the Fall Classic.

    According to LoHud it is a dangerous part of the road where the highway expands to three lanes on each side and traffic routinely buzzes by at high speeds.

    “He could have gotten killed,” county Sgt. Thomas McGurn said, adding that responding police units take extra precaution in that area because of the blind curve and speeding cars. “Traffic goes by at 80 mph.”

  161. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [174] shore

    True, I had not considered the small business person, who gets a signficant deferral opportunity, much better than most folks.

    I don’t know enough about them to know how best to game them, but if they offer hardship withdrawals, then it is possible to defer income at higher marginal rates, then withdraw it at at time when the business might be shuttered or you are taking a sabbatical, and get the money out at lower rates. Like other aspects of self-employment, you have much greater control over your timing, and can more easily shift income to lower tax years.

  162. Shore Guy says:

    Nom,

    Given our huge debt load and the committments we have made to Social Security, Medicare, etc., combined with the Democrat’s and 48% of taxpayers’ who pay no taxes willingness to soak the “rich,” I have no faith that these historically-low tax rates will remain. Those with income more than twice the median are going to get hammered, I suspect.

  163. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [176]

    “Cristiano was one of officers at an intoxicated checkpoint . . .”

    Shouldn’t they be doing their jobs instead of being at an intoxicated checkpoint. And how does a checkpoint get intoxicated anyway?

  164. make money says:

    IMO, the headline # will be better than expected and has been leaked. As always, the devil is in the details.

    Buy rumor sell news. same old same old. I bet my farm on Shiny too. It’s looking really good right now.

  165. Uncle Jay says:

    Had to share with all of you. I have been watching the market for 2+ years now, looking at homes, never getting too excited…throwing in some low ball opportunities here and there with little concern for acceptance….well, I think I find another one that interests me, and this is what my real estate agent advises me,

    “OK, I made an appointment for us to see the house at 11:00am (it works better for them than 10:45) on Saturday. Here’s the kicker: they say they received an offer last night and are currently negotiating. They will certainly wait for you to make an offer if you so choose. I think it just takes away the low balling opportunity.”

    DO THEY EVER F’IN LEARN???????? What is wrong with these people? They still act like they run the show like it was 2006 all over again. It just makes me crazy….IDIOTS—-this just makes me not like the home before I even see it!!!

  166. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [178] shore

    Maybe a Tax Planning GTG is in order sometime next year. The next one is reserved for brewing (maybe) and cage match (definitely).

  167. Shore Guy says:

    “Girardi helps accident victim after winning World Series ”

    So, on the 4th, he wins the World Series. And, on the 5th, he aids a crash victim. Hey Girardi, what is on the agenda for tomorrow?

  168. safeashouses says:

    2 suspects in custody. possibly another shooter. msnbc is reporting possible

  169. Shore Guy says:

    Shecky de Plume will be appearing at Grossingers through shabbat. Remember to tip your wait stsff.

  170. BC Bob says:

    “The driver in the accident, Marie Henry”

    [176],

    You sure it wasn’t John Henry’s wife, trying to side swipe Girardi?

  171. 3b says:

    #181 Call their bluff,and cancel the appointment.

  172. BC Bob says:

    “Buy rumor sell news”

    Make [180],

    Bingo.

  173. Shore Guy says:

    I would still go and make the same offer you would have. When the other deal blows up and they call you back, then you get to make an even lower offer, and have the pleasure of doing it. (Clearly, I was born and reared in NJ).

  174. 3b says:

    #175 Agreed So called consensus range is 150 to 200K. Number comes in at 150k, unemployment rises to 9.9% staying under that ugly double digit 10%, and all will be well.

  175. Shore Guy says:

    BC,

    With Saturday’s show having Sandy, Rosie, and Kitty, I would usually be full of envy, and will be if I dont score a ticket for Sunday. But, if I get in, Crush, Sherry, and River will more than make up for missing the others. If he squeezes in Sandy on Sunday, you will hear my scream of joy across the river.

  176. BC Bob says:

    Shore [191],

    Point Blank, Ramrod & Cadillac. I wish I could be there w/you.

    “you will hear my scream of joy across the river.”

    You mean; Across that Jersey state line.

  177. relo says:

    189: We looked at a house under similar circumstances a while back. While we liked the house, we wished the listing agent luck and said we wouldn’t be “the rabbit”. It was off the market/under ciontract for a long while but never showed up in closed sales. It’s back in MLS now more than 15% below pvs. ask.

  178. Shore Guy says:

    Sandy and Jungleland plus the River album, (maybe toss in AC, and Rosalita, and, being greedy, Spirit) and I dont know that there could be a better evening with one’s clothes on.

  179. BC Bob says:

    Shore [194],

    You sound like a 2005 buyer, making 50K, with a 750K mortgage and a Hummer in the driveway.

  180. John says:

    Citigroup files for IPO of Primerica unit
    Alistair Barr
    MARKETWATCH — 12 MINUTES AGO
    SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Citigroup Inc. (Symbol : C ) said late Thursday that its Primerica Inc. unit has filed plans for an initial public offering, the latest step in a break-up of the struggling financial giant. Primerica has roughly 100,000 licensed sales representatives who sell term life insurance, underwritten by the company, as well as mutual funds, variable annuities, loans and other financial products, Citi explained. “Today’s announcement represents an important step in simplifying our organization,” said Michael Corbat, chief executive of Citi Holdings, which houses Citigroup’s ( “This is the best separation alternative for this franchise.”

  181. Shore Guy says:

    BC,

    How did you know I got a hummer in the driveway?

  182. Shore Guy says:

    I would gladly trade away BTR for any of those others.

  183. Shore Guy says:

    I wonder what kind of guarantee the band gets? It would be interesting to set up a rarities concert, where they play no song that got above, say, 26 or 50, on the charts. One could jack up the ticket prices to say $250 each, fill a smaller venue, and really appeal to the non-casual fan.

    Incident, Mary Queen of Ak, etc. would be a hit among the people who went to such a concert, wheras it would pi$$ off more casual fans.

  184. jcer says:

    Uncle Jay, were are you looking I heard the same thing from an agent an hour ago!

  185. Uncle Jay says:

    jcer—Midland Park, NJ

  186. jcer says:

    Ok, I’m looking in hudson county, where the only thing that comes out of a realtors mouth are lies. I wonder if these guys have a handbook they read out of or is this taught in NAR seminars?

  187. Uncle Jay says:

    Thanks Shore Guy—-I’ll let you all know how it goes on Monday morning. Heck- at least now I will get me my Gubmint Hand-out of $8,000 with this new legislation :-)

  188. Uncle Jay says:

    It has to be…cuz its the same damn lines across the board each and every time!!! Even in the BEAR markets!!! They REALLY do think cuz they sat in class for 40 hours that they are somehow smarter than us???

  189. Uncle Jay says:

    Out of pure curiosity, where would “you all” start the offer price at on this home: 170 Glen Avenue, Midland Park, NJ

    MLS #2916826

    I’m thinking around $550,000?

  190. jamil says:

    Malik Nadal Hasan got angry today.

  191. leftwing says:

    UJ #181 Call their bluff,and cancel the appointment

    I agree. Power shifts to you when they call back. You can either go as planned and be the ‘rabbit’ as someone else said, in which case you will get another call back full of lies after they are done shopping your offer around, or pull out now and tell your realtor that they should call you if/when the other deal doesn’t work.

    I think you have the edge if you break off now and they call back.

    If they don’t, the house probably goes above where you were anyway, in which case you have lost little and saved yourself time.

  192. skep-tic says:

    Uncle Jay– IMO, if you like the house, bid what you think it is worth regardless of the other (phantom) bidder. Make clear that your first bid is your best and final and stick to that. You will never really know whether the other bidder is real.

  193. skep-tic says:

    I would also say that my bid expires at 5:00PM if you are looking at the house at 11:00AM.

  194. jcer says:

    I don’t know of anything in Midland Park being worth 550, That house looks like a fair price is 450, maybe tops 500. It’s not Ridgewood, given the market etc I can’t see Midland Park supporting that price level.

  195. Uncle Jay says:

    You guys are awesome! Thanks for your support. I just shared your thoughts with my wife. Definately be much more confident going in there on Saturday. Thanks for the morale boost!

  196. Uncle Jay says:

    jcer—-what are your thoughts on buying in Midland Park versus Ridgewood?

  197. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I am at a lecture and the panel is Sara Kelsey, Neal Barofsky, Eric Dinallo, and Ken Feinberg. Anybody want to ask them a question?

    (James, no I can’t ask them to repent their treason)

  198. Ben says:

    “137- Recently the NJ police arrested a few people who had collected unemployment while actually being employed. I don’t know if the people who were arrested had been paid under the table or not. But it’s just kind of a crappy thing to take the money from the unemployment funds if you really are working, not to mention illegal.”

    These people obviously didn’t cover their tracks well. You deal in cash and cash only. You don’t deposit it in the bank. If you do those things, there is no paper trail to your under the table employment.

    Honestly, as far as morality goes, these types of actions don’t phase me one bit anymore. Our government creates fake jobs for the well connected, they toss out billions to Wall St., bailout deadbeat home speculators, pay 5k for someone’s used car and then destroy it. They do this all by issuing an unsustainable debt. Their future plans are to repay it with inflation. At this point in time, the best thing you can do for yourself is figure out how to get the spigot to turn on in your direction so you get a little bit back of what Uncle Sam is robbing from you before they wipe out your wage and retirement account through massive inflation.

    If they don’t want people to pillage unemployment, then they should stop handing it out like it’s candy on Halloween. The steps you need to take to remain on it are a joke and they are determined to make the benefits last for years.

    Quite frankly, I’m more offended by someone who sits at home and collects it while not looking for a job than someone who goes out, works a job and still collects it.

  199. lostinny says:

    197 Shore
    That is entirely TMI.

  200. Shore Guy says:

    “at least now I will get me my Gubmint Hand-out of $8,000 with this new legislation”

    Jay is buying the next round of drinks, methinks.

  201. lostinny says:

    Regarding the earlier conversation of Scylla and Charybdis. Pronounced skilla and karibdis. Mentioned in The Police lyrics to Wrapped Around Your Finger. Did you know Sting used to be a *gasp* teacher?
    Sorry I’ve been out all day visiting doctors and whatnot.

  202. Anybody want to ask them a question?

    What’s the best time of year to plant beets?
    also,
    How many buy backs has FNM/FRE enforced on the loans in their portfolios from 2k8 and 2k7 that don’t meet their underwriting standards? I believe FNM themselves estimated a full %20 of the loans they purchased in 2k8 didn’t meet their underwriting requirements.

  203. Shore Guy says:

    “bid what you think it is worth regardless of the other (phantom) bidder. Make clear that your first bid is your best and final and stick to that. You will never really know whether the other bidder is real.”

    I agree. As a general rule, try to never enter any negotiations without being willing to walk away. Once one MUST get a deal, one loses so much power.

    I understnd the advice to walk away before even going but disagree with it as a tactic. First, you may go and decide it really is not the place for you, so it would be better to find out sooner rather than later. Second, if you go now and make anoffer that they reject in favor of a real offer at a higher price (or they pretend there is a higher offer) and they end up coming back to you, they have reduced their negotiating power by all but admitting that your first offer was okay after all. Of course, rewarding that action by agreeing to use that original offer as the new starting point puts you at a disadvantage, so I would not do it. Instead, by making a lower offer, one emphasizes that one believes that prices are continuing to decline. Having once refused to bid against one’s self only emphasizes to them that one will not be “rolled” and that one will walk away again should the deal not suit one’s needs.

  204. Shore Guy says:

    lost,

    I meant a harmonica. What did you mean?

  205. d2b says:

    Ben 214-
    On the Blackberry today or I would have said the same thing. I think that I should open an all cash side business. Screw the government.

  206. Shore Guy says:

    From an ASCAP newsletter:

    EMI has announced the launch of Abbey Road Live, a service that records high quality audio and video footage of live concerts and produces take away CDs, DVDs and USB sticks for concert goers.

  207. Shore Guy says:

    From an ASCAP newsletter:

    EMI has announced the launch of Abbey Road Live, a service that records high quality audio and video footage of live concerts and produces take away CDs, DVDs and USB sticks for concert goers.

  208. lostinny says:

    220 Shore
    There’s only 2 things I think of when I hear hummer, one’s a truck. Guess what the other is.

  209. lostinny says:

    Shore 222 & 223
    That sounds like a pretty interesting concert souvenir. I wonder what that costs them for each concert.

  210. Shore Guy says:

    lost,

    I don’t know but I bet they could get away with charging $30 or so for it.

  211. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (218) Tosh

    I don’t think that they will know the answer to that.

    But I will ask about the beets.

    Barofsky is really worried about CRE.

    When asked if the gov could handle another crisis:

    Barof says the fed can print more money. Kelsey says to make it clear that shareholders and bondholders will get wiped out.

  212. lostinny says:

    226 Shore

    I think $30 would be a bargain. I’m appalled at what they ask at concerts for souvenirs. $75 for a sweatshirt? They can suck it.

  213. d2b says:

    Bought heating oil today which is much higher than last year. I can see why with oil demand sky high due to our booming economy.

  214. lostinny says:

    BTW for those that care, Skinny Puppy is playing the Nokia Theater Nov 17th and the Troc in Philly Nov 19th.

  215. confused in NJ says:

    FORT HOOD, Texas – A military mental health doctor facing deployment overseas opened fire at the Fort Hood Army post on Thursday, setting off on a rampage that killed 11 other people and left 31 wounded. Authorities killed the gunman, and the violence was believed to be the worst mass shooting in history at a U.S. military base.

    The shooting began around 1:30 p.m., when shots were fired at the base’s Soldier Readiness Center, where soldiers who are about to be deployed or who are returning undergo medical screening, said Lt. Gen. Bob Cone at Fort Hood.

    “It’s a terrible tragedy. It’s stunning,” Cone said.

    A law enforcement official identified the shooting suspect as Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.

  216. 3b says:

    #205 Uncle Jay: If you care, the owners paid 190K in 1999. And the taxes are over 15k!! Nothing against Midland Park but I would not pay 550k or 15k in taxes in Midland Pk. I would be looking in Allendale, Wyckoff, Ridgewood, or Mahwah.

  217. confused in NJ says:

    If we are going to lose 42 soldiers for every planted sleeper agent, we will need to bring back the draft. I suggest we start by drafting all ACLU members.

  218. 3b says:

    #210 Agreed. 550K in Midland Park??? And the taxes are $15,564 dollars a year. Insane anywhere IMO, but even more insane for that town.

  219. 3b says:

    #212 Uncle Jay: There is no comparison, no discussion. If your choice is Midland Pk or Ridgewood, you buy Ridgewood every time.

  220. jamil says:

    “They were telling him that one guy was shouting something in Arabic while he was shooting,” Tom Hunt said. “He couldn’t say much more than that.”

    I wonder what was that /sarc

  221. BC Bob says:

    “Barof says the fed can print more money.”

    Nom,

    Music to my ears.

    Ask them how taxpayers invstments are faring with Maiden Lane Partners and CIT. Also, when will the fed open their books to the NJRER?

  222. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (238) !9

    Maiden lane came up but the entire lecture was quite superficial.

    Barosky did say that BTW.

  223. sas says:

    this whole Ft. Hood story stinks.

    something rotten in Denmark.

    SAS

  224. sean says:

    re#237 – Jamil there was only one shooter, the Doctor an officer a Major in the US Army who when to Virgina Tech and joined the ROTC an American born and raised in Virgina. FYI, all psychiatrists who treat individuals clinically are physicians MDs, not some mental health “worker” Muslim as the press is reporting.

    Perhaps it has more to do with being a head shrink than a M uslim? He started as a doctor at Walter Reed in 2001 during the war where he did his internship, residency and a fellowship for most of this decade.Put some thought into that one, add it to your jump to conclusions mat for now. The man snapped and it may have to do with the job more so than any other factor.

    More will come out since he is alive and apparently he has been trying to get out of the army for years.

  225. sas says:

    you know what else stinks?

    its that Goldman Sachs Capital Partners & the Northwestern University trustees up in Chicago, doing that lawsuit against Canwest Global’s media segments (4414616 Canada Inc)
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091103/business/canwest_goldman_sachs

    u know what a snuff film is?

    SAS

  226. Mouw says:

    Once again the Playstation 3 is one of the hottest gifts this Christmas, they’re selling out fast. I found mine at http://www.efoundit.com/

  227. It’s funny that you finally spoke up! I have been waiting for someone to bring this out to the open! Anyway… nice post. I will be back.

  228. I agree with what you wrote here. Have you read Cem Kaner’s books? He is such a great author, I have read all of his books and learned so much from them. I was fortunate enough to see him give a presentation a few years ago on his methodology. He is as good a speaker as he is an author. Do you know of any authors of Kaner’s reputation?

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