Save Housing, At Any Cost (again)

From the WSJ Developments Blog:

It’s (Almost) Official: Home Buyer Tax Credit Extended, Expanded

Congress voted on Thursday to extend the tax credit and President Obama plans on signing it into law Friday morning. The $8,000 credit will apply to all contracts, for homes up to $800,000, entered into before April 30, 2010, and closed by June 30. It creates a new $6,500 credit for property owners who have lived in their home for at least five consecutive years.

Income limits for eligible home buyers are expanded to $125,000 for single buyers and $225,000 for couples, from $75,000 and $150,000, respectively. To help guard against fraud, buyers are required to attach documentation of purchase to their tax return.

From the NY Times:

A Bad Way to Spend Money

Congress threw good money after bad this week when it voted to extend and expand a wasteful home buyer’s tax credit set to expire at the end of the month.

The new program, which will continue through the spring, is being portrayed as a rescue plan for the ailing housing market. But this costly giveaway to the real estate and mortgage industry will spend far more in taxpayers’ dollars than it can ever deliver in economic benefit. As happened with the cash-for-clunkers program in the automobile industry, the program will make housing look momentarily betterbut is unlikely to contribute to long-term recovery.

The bill that passed both houses of Congress this week extends the program through April 2010 and grants the full tax credit to couples who earn up to $225,000. The expanded program introduces a $6,500 tax credit for people who already own homes but want to buy new ones.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Bubble, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

251 Responses to Save Housing, At Any Cost (again)

  1. safeashouses says:

    frist!

  2. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Fannie’s Draws From Emergency Treasury Fund Reach $60 Billion

    Fannie Mae, the mortgage buyer seized by regulators, plans to tap emergency U.S. capital for a fourth time this year, bringing its draws of taxpayer money to $60 billion as the company sees no immediate end to its losses.

    Fannie Mae will seek $15 billion in Treasury Department financing after posting an $18.9 billion third-quarter net loss, according to a Securities and Exchange Commission filing late yesterday. The Washington-based company, which posted $101.6 billion in losses over the previous eight quarters, has already tapped $44.9 billion from the $200 billion emergency lifeline.

    “They’re going to need that $200 billion in capital, if not more, when this thing’s all said and done,” said Paul Miller, an analyst at FBR Capital Markets in Arlington, Virginia.

    The Treasury Department is also holding up an agreement Fannie Mae reached in the third quarter to sell about $2.6 billion in low-income housing tax credits, the company said. The company may have to write down the value of the credits and take a charge if it can’t find a use for the credits.

  3. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    Unemployment rate expected to hit 9.9%

    Growth may have returned to the U.S. economy in the third quarter, but workers are still being left out of the party.

    According to forecasts, nonfarm payrolls probably fell for the 22nd straight month in October, economists said ahead of Friday’s report from the Labor Department. The report will be released at 8:30 a.m. Eastern.

    The unemployment rate likely rose by a tenth of a percentage point to 9.9%, which would be the highest in 26 years. Some analysts are predicting a 10% or even a 10.1% jobless rate in October.

  4. safeashouses says:

    Let’s keep housing prices artificially high at great expense to the taxpayer. This way everyone can pay a higher percentage of their declining income for housing costs. Who cares if this money might be better used for saving for education or retirement, or used in discretionary spending (like travel, dining out but hey, discretionary spending creates jobs, and we don’t need those). The homeowners can always refi in the future or sell their crap box to some other dope. After all, they are not making anymore land and real estate can only go up!!!

  5. grim says:

    From CNN/Money:

    Congress approves more benefits for jobless

    Unemployed Americans are set to get up to 20 additional weeks of jobless benefits, while new homebuyers are poised to see the $8,000 tax credit extended into mid-next year.

    The House approved the measures by a 403-12 vote Thursday afternoon, a day after the Senate passed the legislation.

    The president is scheduled to sign the bill into law Friday morning, the same day the government releases the monthly unemployment rate, which is expected to rise.

    The closely watched legislation would extend jobless benefits in all states by 14 weeks. Those that live in states with unemployment greater than 8.5% would receive an additional six weeks. The proposal would be funded by extending a longstanding federal unemployment tax on employers through June 30, 2011.

  6. SG says:

    Christie owes the ‘burbs big, but will he pay them back?

    I have my doubts. As I’ve been writing since the Whitman administration, the elected officials in the GOP have an attitude of contempt for suburban voters. They largely agree with the Democrats that the proper role of suburban taxpayers is to send their money to the cities and shut up about it.

    So far Christie has said nothing to make suburbanites think he opposes that point of view. But suburban voters gave him the benefit of the doubt on Tuesday anyway, not because Christie was so good but because Corzine was so bad.

    Now how will he show his gratitude? Well, he spent Wednesday visiting Newark. That should give you a hint. Don’t spend the money you were expecting to save on property taxes under a Christie administration.

    And so far he hasn’t offered Lonegan a post in the new administration. How about naming Lonegan as Community Affairs Commissioner? That should tune those towns up on the question of property taxes.

    And if he really wants to gut COAH, Lonegan will gladly wield the paring knife.

    But somehow I don’t think Christie was serious about gutting the affordable-housing rules that punish the suburbs simply for existing. And I don’t think he was serious about cutting property taxes. I fully expect to see a rehash of the prior Christie administration, with all the contempt for the suburbs that Christie Whitman made so evident by her actions.

    I may be wrong. Maybe Chris Christie will decide to repay suburbanites for putting him in office. Maybe he’s poring over those charts above and figuring out that the votes are in the middle of the state, not two ends of the Turnpike.

  7. crossroads says:

    #4 safehouse

    if they only let prices fall… I want to be able to afford a vacation once a year. save for college. get kids dance lessons… the govt. is using smoke and mirrors for affordability not to mention property tax is only going to get worse. I don’t have a great job but I shouldn’t have to live in a slum so I can afford some of the desrcretionary spending items mentioned. and the slum is not much cheaper! its the next up and coming town

  8. SG says:

    N.J. groups urge political leaders to consider housing problems

    Sterner believes New Jersey needs a “rational and predictable housing-delivery system.” Planning, guided by strong state leadership, is needed both to smooth out the boom-and-bust development and ensure the availability of low-income housing outside cities.

    That is an explosive issue New Jersey’s leadership has tried to avoid for 35 years, since the state Supreme Court ruled that a constitutional right to affordable housing cannot be abridged by zoning laws — the so-called Mt. Laurel decisions.

    Avoidance continues today, but the issue of whether New Jersey’s poor will have access to affordable housing anywhere is not going away. A few weeks ago, an appellate court ruled that even towns in compliance with state affordable-housing rules still must make it easy for the builders of low-income housing to win variances for more units.

    Someday, New Jersey’s leaders will have to face the issue. Gov. Jon Corzine supports funding for low-income housing and the demand that all areas provide it, but budget cutting makes the goal of 100,000 new units unachievable. Republican Chris Christie wants to “gut” — his word — New Jersey’s Council on Affordable Housing, the agency empowered to bring low-income housing to the suburbs.

  9. SG says:

    N.J. losing out on $6B a year when college students flee state

    When it comes to K-12 education, New Jersey is usually A-1. The state is the nation’s yearly valedictorian, or salutatorian. Certainly never less than fifth in the class.

    So why then is New Jersey at the bottom of so many high education categories: 50th in per capita funding; 47th in college capacity, and therefore, worst, by far, at keeping students in-state.

    About 35,000 kids leave New Jersey each year to go to college and take about $6 billion with them.

    Shelly says the money isn’t going far, either. Most New Jersey students stay in the Mid-Atlantic or New England.

    “New Jersey does much research as to where the students are going. I don’t think they want to admit our money is being exported just over to Lehigh Valley or down in Delaware.”

  10. SG says:

    More walk away from homes, mortgages

    The home had been appraised at $390,000 when she refinanced in 2006, but she estimates it’s not worth the $320,000 it initially cost in 2004. So Sakson did what a growing number of homeowners are doing today: She stopped paying and decided to let the bank take her home.

    “I’m walking away from my house,” says Sakson, 57, who stopped making payments about six months ago on her home in Pennington, N.J. “The bank can have it.”

    What Sakson did is called a strategic default, or a voluntary foreclosure, and it’s fast becoming a major challenge to the government’s $75 billion effort to keep distressed borrowers in their homes. Walking away from a mortgage is serious business — it can knock 100 points off your credit score and make you ineligible for a new mortgage for seven years. Yet, about 588,000 borrowers walked away from homes last year, double the number in 2007, according to a recent study by credit-scoring firm Experian and management consultants Oliver Wyman. While home prices are rising, the increases pale compared with overall drops in home prices since 2005 that threaten to push millions more homeowners into Sakson’s predicament, owing more than their homes are worth and seeing little chance of rebuilding equity soon.

  11. safeashouses says:

    #7 crossroads,

    You want a vacation, buy a lawnchair and sit in the backyard! Kids don’t need dance lessons, tell them to watch Hip Hop Harry!/ off sarcasm

    These housing prices are still ridiculously expensive. I’ve posted before that a family of 4 earning median income for a nice town could buy the worst house in that town only if they didn’t have a life. No eating out, no vacations, no dance or karate lessons for the kids. no way they could save for retirement or college. What’s the point of living in a nice town if you aren’t able to afford to do anything in it?

  12. grim says:

    From the Record:

    Corzine orders $400M in cuts to balance budget

    Governor Corzine is preparing $400 million in budget cuts and wants legislators to shelve any new spending measures during their upcoming lame duck session, all to offset revenue losses blamed on the poor economy.

    A hiring freeze and travel restrictions will also remain in place as revenue collections continue to come in below original budget projections, the governor said Thursday.

    “My administration will continue to live up to our responsibility to maintain a fiscally balanced budget during the next two months,” said Corzine, who lost Tuesday’s election to Republican Chris Christie. “These cuts will be tough but necessary choices that need to be addressed now.”

    Last month, state Treasurer David Rousseau said revenue collections for the first three months of the budget year that began in July 2009 were off by $190 million, or about 3 percent.

    Corzine, in response, said workforce reductions, a new employee pharmacy benefits program and debt refinancing were already generating savings during the first quarter. But he also asked department heads to identify $200 million in possible cuts that could be enacted on Dec. 1.

    The governor said revenue collections in October were also off, and he called for up to $400 million in cuts to be ready by Dec. 1.

  13. crossroads says:

    your right we tend to over spend on our children’s after school
    activities but 1. if prices fell like they should have without govt intervention. nice towns are more affordable. 2. the not so nice towns are still very expensive relative to median income. and property taxes are usually higher in not so nice towns

  14. Cindy says:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2009/11/too-big-to-fail-excerpt-200911?currentPage=1

    A friend sent me Sorkin’s TBTF – just started it but here is an article/excerpt from the book…

  15. Cindy says:

    http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/the_state_worker/2009/11/post-7.html

    The California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility today re-filed with the Attorney General Jerry Brown proposed ballot measures to create a second tier pension system for new employees hired by state and other public agencies in California.

    This needs to happen. Yesterday.

  16. lostinny says:

    15 Cindy
    NYC is up to tier IV now. I’d love to see what’s going to happen now that the teacher’s contract has expired.

  17. BC Bob says:

    “Fannie Mae, the mortgage buyer seized by regulators, plans to tap emergency U.S. capital for a fourth time this year, bringing its draws of taxpayer money to $60 billion as the company sees no immediate end to its losses.”

    Tap US capital? Do they mean monopoly money? They can print all they want, pretend and extend. However, they can not and will not alter the cycle. They can only delay, hope, massage #’s, apply band aids, etc.. They are trying to extinguish a raging inferno with buckets of water. As a result of their actions, unfortunately, a 5-7 year cycle, lower prices, will now take 15-20 years. We have all turned Japanese.

    Let the insolvent banks die, divert the monoploy money into a federal tax holiday for 1-2 years. Pay a dividend to your shareholders. Try to stimulate demand, rather than pissing into a sinking black hole. Fcuk the incompetent, leveraged gamblers. They have been exposed for what they truly are, welfare queens. They made a bet, they lost. Move on.

    One question, what is brewing to fuel real, sustainable demand?

  18. Cindy says:

    18 – Amen BC

    “What is brewing to fuel real, sustainable demand?”

  19. Cindy says:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK2PHOSTP7040YG

    BC – Ordered this book – Jump Point. I am hoping to find some answers there.

  20. stan says:

    On bberry so I can’t post it but NYT business section today now reporting on possible SAC involvement with the insider trading scandal.

  21. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “possible SAC involvement”

    I am growing so disillusioned. If you can’t trust Stevie Cohen who can you trust.

  22. Orion says:

    Fannie Mae: what a fckng joke!

    Argentina/Japan, or a combination of both, that’s the path we’re headed…

  23. sas says:

    “FHA delays the release of disputed audit of its finances”
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/04/AR2009110403791.html

    -The Federal Housing Administration abruptly delayed the release of a long-awaited independent audit of the financial soundness of the agency, citing potential problems with the accuracy of some of the study’s economic models.

  24. sas says:

    “Wall Street’s Naked Swindle
    A scheme to flood the market with counterfeit stocks helped kill Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers — and the feds have yet to bust the culprits”

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/30481512/wall_streets_naked_swindle/print

  25. sas says:

    you know what else stinks?

    its that Goldman Sachs Capital Partners & the Northwestern University trustees up in Chicago, doing that lawsuit against Canwest Global’s media segments (4414616 Canada Inc)

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091103/business/canwest_goldman_sachs

  26. stan says:

    Thx Cindy

  27. BC Bob says:

    “and the feds have yet to bust the culprits”

    SAS [26],

    LMAO. The fed is the culprits lap dog.

  28. gary says:

    But this costly giveaway to the real estate and mortgage industry will spend far more in taxpayers’ dollars than it can ever deliver in economic benefit.

    You can’t ask for better comedy. There’s always some sucker to be had at any given time. Even a dog knows when to stop if it gets whacked enough times. But the proletarians, not a chance.

  29. sas says:

    I’m not trusting the media on this Ft. Hood situation.
    something is rotten in Denmark.

    next thing you know, someone will tell me Mr C doesn’t control Local 14 and 15 and extrort AMEC Construction management sites…

    talk about foul play on construction loans.

    SAS

  30. sas says:

    ok, i gotta run,

    I wish to hell I could retire and fish all day.

    don’t ever get married, just live in sin.

    SAS

  31. hughesrep says:

    My wife and I bought in September. My wife previously owned a townhouse for five years which we sold. Income this year will be below the thresholds b/c she was off of work while baby #2 came.

    Has anyone read enough of the proposed tax credit bill to know if we may be able to get some government cheese?

    I’m thinking I won’t even get the reach around.

  32. Cindy says:

    http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2009/11/fannie-maes-results-oh-and-what-if-bank.html

    More on the Fannie numbers from John Hempton @ Bronte Capital

    “Fannie Mae’s results – oh, and what if Bank of America reported the same way?”

  33. BC Bob says:

    Is he kidding?

    “Lawmakers were wrong to repeal the Depression-era Glass- Steagall Act in 1999, Reed said. At the time, he supported overturn of the law, which required the separation of institutions that engaged in traditional customer banking services from those involved in capital markets.”

    “We learn from our mistakes,” said Reed, who wrote an Oct. 21 letter to the editor of the New York Times endorsing a division of banking activities. “When you’re running a company you do what you think is right for the stockholders. Right now I’m looking at this as a citizen.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a.z4KpD77s80&pos=7

  34. jamil says:

    Sean 241 prev thread: “Perhaps it has more to do with being a head shrink than a M uslim? He started as a doctor at Walter Reed in 2001 during the war where he did his internship,”

    You should easily get a job as a “real journalist” at NYT or AP. If you had checked the link in the same thread (from the not a legitimate news org), you would have learned that the suspect had expressed pleasure about suicide bombings against US troops. Btw, he also shouted “Allah Akbar” while shooting.

    Yeah I know I know. Doesn’t fit the narrative.

  35. gary says:

    Jobs down 190,000

    Unemployment at 10.2%

    Greenshits!

  36. BC Bob says:

    “10.2”

    Today, it’s officially O’s recession.

  37. grim says:

    U6 at 17.5%

  38. All Hype says:

    10.2% Recession over!

  39. Cindy says:

    http://www.interfluidity.com/posts/1257407150.shtml

    On Monday, eight bloggers were invited to meet with “senior Treasury officials – here is Steve Randy Waldman’s take on the sit down from Interfluidity.

  40. BC Bob says:

    B/D added 86K jobs. Where?

  41. stan says:

    Thank god for the stimulus.

    It would have easily been 11-12% if we didn’t save all thos jobs,

    Whew.

  42. All Hype says:

    Stan:

    We will get to 11% just give it time. I heard of a lot of people being quietly laid off recently in the insurance and pharma industries.

  43. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Keep in mind it’s 10.2% today, wait until its revised

  44. stan says:

    Do they put out a number for raises due to stimulus?

  45. Cindy says:

    http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2009/11/could-advancing-job-automation.html

    Some thoughts on structural unemployment

    “Could Advancing Job Automation Technology Cause Structural Unemployment”

  46. Orion says:

    The media spin: Unemployment lagging indicator

    IMHO, this is a structural shift. In the 80’s recession the U.S. had a stronger manufacturing sector. Many of today’s mfg. job cuts will never return.

  47. ricky_nu says:

    #10 – SG

    regarding strategic defaults – tis but part of a bigger problem in this country, a breakdown of the moral fabric. “Geez – the mark-to-market of my house is down, I will just stop paying my mortgage”

  48. jamil says:

    thank god (or messiah) for the 800 billion porkulus bill. We avoided the 8% unemployment!

  49. Stu says:

    10.2%?

    We need more stimulus. We need more accommodative easing. We need to find Wilson and tell him to sell!

  50. 3b says:

    #40 Bc Bob: I Guess you and were wrong yesterday.

  51. relo says:

    25: 2% !?!?

    “As of Oct. 1, the reserve fund no longer had enough cash to cover at least 2 percent of the agency’s outstanding loans, as required by law, he said.”

  52. Orion says:

    Government payrolls were unchanged from previous month:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=acha6mUkfV_8&pos=1

  53. Cindy says:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125746512235832287.html

    “Fannie Arrives at Deal to Sell $2.6B in Unused Tax Credits” – unnamed buyers – Now let’s see…..Goldman and Buffett?

  54. 3b says:

    #51 How can they call it a lagging indicator when it is still rising? What krap.

  55. 3b says:

    #55 BC Bob:Sorry should have said I guess you and I were wrong yesterday.

  56. confused in NJ says:

    41.grim says:
    November 6, 2009 at 8:31 am
    U6 at 17.5%

    I think thats low and its north of 20.

  57. John says:

    Jets are supposed to announce a blockbuster regarding poor PSL sales and new pricing. The SOBs are awaiting to do it while Yankee parade is on so no one notices. Kinda like Goldman last year doing lay-offs day before thanksgiving as they knew most papers don’t publish on Thanksgiving and by Firday it would be old news.

  58. relo says:

    29: They’re looking into it. So remains OJ.

  59. Orion says:

    #59-Because economists have, historically, always called it that. Many economists have also, in the past, failed to foresee this severe recession. Some of these economists are now running our gov’t. Reassuring, aint’t it?

  60. jamil says:

    “Economists from across the political spectrum agree that if we don’t act swiftly and boldly, we could see a much deeper economic downturn that could lead to double-digit unemployment and the American Dream slipping further and further out of reach.”

    – President-elect Barack Obama, Jan. 3, 2009.

    Those economists across the political spectrum were probably trotskyists and bolshevists.

  61. safeashouses says:

    What a shock we don’t hit 10% unemployment until after the elections. I bet the official figures will peak in the spring and start improving before next year’s elections so the incumbents can point out what a good job they are doing.

  62. Stu says:

    For the record, the Gator family is pleased with the opportunity to get some gubmint cheese, for the first time in a long time.

    Perhaps 12% salary cuts are not that bad. Less AMT and more tax credits. Where’s my boss? I need him to encourage me to be less productive.

  63. 3b says:

    #66 An added urgency to get the health care plan passed?

  64. make money says:

    “Fannie Arrives at Deal to Sell $2.6B in Unused Tax Credits” – unnamed buyers – Now let’s see…..Goldman and Buffett?

    I thought Buffet was a big proponent of the wealthy paying more taxes. I lost a lot of respect for that old slimeball.

  65. jamil says:

    69: If we don’t pass nationalized health care, illegal immigration mass-amnesty and tax-and-cap scam asap we’ll get into triple-digits unemployment!

  66. frank says:

    Wanna job??? Move to China, Brazil or Australia.

  67. BC Bob says:

    This is not a normal recession. This is balance sheet recession/depression. The MSM can throw out that crap regarding lagging indicator. The majority of these jobs are not coming back. They were created during the charade economy. That economy has been put to bed, kaput.

    A total re-structuring is now required. Consumer spending, based on asset appreciation/credit/debt is buried. Based on this scenario, unemployment, U-6, is now a leading indicator.

  68. Stu says:

    Jamil,

    Let’s spice things up a bit.

    Want to make a bet that O-man gets reelected in 2012?

    Winner gets to keep posting here. Loser does not. What do you say?

  69. BC Bob says:

    Frank,

    Pay attention to the grill. There are a ton of Yankee fans waiting for a hot dog.

  70. Cindy says:

    70- Make

    It says “unnamed buyers” – I was just venturing a guess based on the two who showed interest. We will have to wait to see who it really is.

  71. Stu says:

    BC Bob: LMAO

  72. Stu says:

    2 unnamed buyers = Geithner and Bernanke?

  73. 3b says:

    #73 Bc Their lagging indicator line is nonsense. How can it be a lagging indicator when it keeps going up? Simple common sense.

  74. Cindy says:

    3b @ 69 – You may be onto something…

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

    “House Dems push for Votes on health bill

  75. With the election of Gov. Christie do you believe his stance on taxes and government funding will contribute or worsen the real estate market?

  76. John says:

    Excuse me there are over one million people outside my office waiting for a parade, 20 million people in NY area, 10% unemployed, heck we got two million people who can go to parade today!!!! Green Shoots for beer and pretzel sales.

    However, kind feels like fall of Rome with the bread and circus

  77. Stu says:

    The Fall of Rome will likely occur when the Jets win the Super Bowl.

  78. #82 – However, kind feels like fall of Rome with the bread and circus

    Wow, a John post that is sensible…. and nothing is misspelled… Who are you and what have you done with the real John?

  79. Stu says:

    Liberty (81):

    Makes no difference who gets elected. They all cater to the corporatocracy.

  80. Shore Guy says:

    ” Move to China, Brazil or Australia”

    I know a guy with a good job (well had a very good job) with a top-notch computer technology and services firm headquartered in Westchester County. He was pulling in something on the order of $175,000-200,000/year. Earlier this year, he was presented with this choice, relocate to India or we fire you. He gave consideration to the move until he found out that if he went the company was going to cut his salary to something like $15,000-20,000, I don’t recall the exact number now. He demured and he got the ax. He had been with them for +/- 20 years.

  81. NJGator says:

    Stu 68 – Wait until they lay you off. Then you will get all tanned, fit and stylin like Gary!

  82. jamil says:

    k74 stu:
    “Want to make a bet that O-man gets reelected in 2012?”

    I never said O won’t be re-elected. The combination of ACORN, sudden legalization of 10 million illegals, protective State Media and clueless suckers may very well be enough to overcome the deficits in real votes. I’m pretty sure ACORN has already printed few million extra O ballots.

    Also, given his meddling in Honduras, where President wanted to become President for Life and asked Hugo Chavez to deliver the ballots around the country, I would not rule out similar coup here or throwing out Supreme Court justices and just amending the constitution.

  83. safeashouses says:

    Why do the posters who seem most upset about a health care plan keep posting about moving to Australia?

    1) Australia has nationalized health care
    2) Cost of living is much higher than North Jersey
    3) Picture Ocean County as a city and that ‘s what it is like to live in Sydney
    4) All goods and foods have a 10% VAT (value added tax) built into the price
    5) Australia is also much more racist and xenophobic than the US

    On the plus side beer and the weather are better.

  84. Outofstater says:

    #8 The NJ State Constitution actually says that residents have a constitutional right to affordable housing??? Do other states have similar language in their constitutions? Just wondering.

  85. BC Bob says:

    3b [79],

    In a normal recession, business slowdown or inventory adjustment I would agree. However, what’s normal about this crisis? This is not a train slowly veering off the tracks. The train has crashed.

    Many think the economy is recovering. What economy? It was pie in the sky, credit, debt and speculators shuffling paper throughout the world. There is no going back, the house has burnt to the ground.

  86. safeashouses says:

    #89

    also google “stamp duty” for Australia. you think our closing costs are expensive?

    ha

  87. 3b says:

    It is insane down here today in Lower Manhattan;absolute chaos.

  88. jamil says:

    90: “#8 The NJ State Constitution actually says that residents have a constitutional right to affordable housing??? ”

    I think the state can stop the funding for courts and dismantle the courts (judges can’t be easily removed but the courts can be terminated). This should be done, otherwise there is little hope.

    NJ courts have been packed with union-sponsored tax-and-spend liberals who are doing executive decisions and micro-managing the economy.
    Same problem in NY where liberal judges specify how many millions must be thrown to this or that school.

  89. 3b says:

    #82 Lots of kids had off from school yesterday and today, teachers convention.

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [84] tosh

    Yowza. ROFLMAO

  91. yikes says:

    chicagofinance says:
    November 4, 2009 at 11:44 am

    yikes: You asked me where the market is going?

    This afternoon watch the reaction to John Chambers….not to the results of CSCO, but rather once he opens his mouth and starts talking about conditions and his business forecast….that is about as good a call as you are going to see….I’m not saying he is correct. All he is more informed than most others out there…

    Chi, i missed this while getting my Yankees on.
    what happened?

  92. yikes says:

    im sure some will get a chuckle out of this – 10 months after purchasing a house, our neighbor’s house (slightly bigger yard, slightly smaller interior sq footage) sold for 20k less than what we bought for.

    we broke Grim’s rule about looking at the local market once you bought. oh well.

    The goal is to be here for 30 years though, so this doesn’t matter to us. based on reading clot’s posts, it wouldn’t shock me if it went down another 20k. (also, this is in bucks county)

  93. HEHEHE says:

    “Many of today’s mfg. job cuts will never return”

    This recession is going to decimate the the services sector WAY more than mfg. They are going to be gone due to massive overcapacity.

  94. 3b says:

    Market up on up unemployment # ?? Sure makes perfect sense, in an environment where interest rates will never be raised.

    And the ding dong Erin Burnett claims that gold reaching $1100 an ounce is the last gasp of the fear trade,and the other clown nods in approval. We are truly living in la la land.

  95. Schumpeter says:

    relo (35)-

    Methinks Mr. Montana is about to be blindsided by a Jim Burt-type hit.

  96. BC Bob says:

    “And the ding dong Erin Burnett claims that gold reaching $1100 an ounce is the last gasp of the fear trade”

    3b,

    I pray that the bitch is on the other side of the trade.

  97. Schumpeter says:

    BC (44)-

    The giant B/D revision comes early in 2010 (Feb., I think).

    The resulting damage will be catastrophic. Unless they choose to continue to tell flat-out lies (which is an option I believe they consider valid).

  98. Schumpeter says:

    BC (102)-

    They need to replace Erin with Michelle Caruso-Cabrera. Her assets are much more substantial.

  99. LI Guy says:

    hughesrep #33

    Go Fcuk Yourself

  100. Schumpeter says:

    HE (46)-

    Things are coming to a head. Commercial loans can’t be rolled. Defaults have gone parabolic, and the REIT pump/dump/phony dividend/offload tax consequence game is about to go into overdrive.

  101. we says:

    #89, and Australia’s external debt is like 200% of GDP.

  102. Schumpeter says:

    BC (73)-

    The percentage of my friends who’ve been laid off from 6-figure, white-collar jobs…who believe that those jobs will never come back…is 100%.

    However, BLS would call that anecdata and statistically insignificant.

  103. Schumpeter says:

    One benefit of a couple of my pals’ job losses is that they’ve had plenty of time to figure out how to strategically default on credit cards and get the issuers to give them some sweet deals in the hope of recovering a fraction of the balances.

  104. Schumpeter says:

    yikes (98)-

    Don’t worry until you see giant velociraptors beginning to nest in the trees of the vacant homes around you.

  105. safeashouses says:

    3b and schumpeter,

    I think the way to watch Erin and Becky is with the sound off while playing Barry White in background.

  106. hughesrep says:

    105

    Thanks for the intelligent repsonse. I would expect nothing else from an LI douchebag. And keep your sexual predelictions to yourself.

    According to UPI the tax credit will not be retroactive. We didn’t qualify for the first credit, and closed before the second will go into effect.

    http://tinyurl.com/Tax-credit-UPI

    It’s not long the money was a huge deal, but I could have bought several ounces of gold.

  107. jamil says:

    This is getting interested. Nobody is afraid of Obambi anymore. Come to think of this, he has never achieved anything except things for himself (Nobel, getting rid of primary challengers in court, getting elected in 2008).

    “Paterson Empowered By Obama’s Election Woes”
    Gov. Still Plans To Run Despite President’s Request He Not

    http://wcbstv.com/politics/governor.david.paterson.2.1294872.html

    Sounds like a Gov Guliani in 2010. Maybe there is hope for NY after all. Its wonder what one radical marxist can do to revive GOP.

  108. zieba says:

    I am just as shocked. Coherent, concise, non rambling and a comma to boot. Bring back Billy Joel John!

    “#82 – However, kind feels like fall of Rome with the bread and circus

    Wow, a John post that is sensible…. and nothing is misspelled… Who are you and what have you done with the real John?”

  109. Stu says:

    Can anyone else come up with a lopsided bet to get rid of Jamil? I tried.

  110. chicagofinance says:

    Cindy says:
    November 6, 2009 at 7:10 am
    A friend sent me Sorkin’s TBTF – just started it but here is an article/excerpt from the book…

    C: I was going to this, but it got postponed…..
    http://www.cen.cornell.edu/index.cfm/events.details?eventID=458&regionID=0&srchType=future

  111. Schumpeter says:

    stu (115)-

    You could probably inject Jamil’s sushi with polonium, and it would make him stronger.

    He is a human cockroach.

  112. Schumpeter says:

    Whoops, moderated for the embedded “c0ck” in a word.

  113. Schumpeter says:

    stu (115)-

    You could probably inject Jamil’s sushi with polonium, and it would make him stronger.

    He is a human c0ckroach.

  114. Conde Nast may be in for more layoffs.
    Apparently Si Newhouse has hired a crisis management team and sold off parts of his art collection. The latter, in particular, doesn’t bode well.

  115. zieba says:

    The shelling has started closer to home recently. I have seen family members and friends get taken out. Prior to this our [nations] current economical predicament has largely avoided those around me.

    I am young and I am officially humbled.

    What’s scary is that, for the most part, these jobs are either a) not coming back or b) available at a significantly lower pay grade.

    Question for the old dawgs – If we stopped hemorrhaging jobs and things are leveling off – yeah right – why does it feel like the floor is about to drop out and indicators are about to go parabolic?

  116. Borders to close 200 stores. Ouch!
    That certainly won’t help Conde either.

  117. Stu says:

    Zieba,

    This is the first time that companies have every realized such drastic increases in EPS through draconian job cutting. Unfortunately, their is a lag time before the effects of this strategy are felt in the greater economy. Eventually, either the severances will run out or the unemployment insurance will be phased out, prompted by the unwillingness of our foreign debt buyers to keep on buying.

    Funny thing is, they keep on buying. But for how long?

  118. sean says:

    Barney Frank on CNBC now wants more stimulus for more state and local government jobs!

    He is mentions the Republicans not wanting this money. He is already angling for the 2010 elections.

    People of Boston get rid of this guy already!

  119. Some update on #121; The closures will be in the Walden Books chains, reducing their total number to 130.
    Walden is, I believe, entirely a mall based entity. This can’t be good for CRE , now looking at more vacancies, or publishing.

  120. d2b says:

    What would have happened to the market if the unemployment number came in under by .4%?

  121. lisoosh says:

    Wall Street’s on crack. Jamil is back. Resources lack. Mood is whack.

  122. lisoosh says:

    Stu #115 – a bet that comes to fruition only in 2012 is hardly worth the effort. I vote for a stategic hit.

  123. 3b says:

    #120Question for the old dawgs – If we stopped hemorrhaging jobs and things are leveling off – yeah right – why does it feel like the floor is about to drop out and indicators are about to go parabolic?

    Beacause A. We have not stopped hemorraghing jobs,and B. because things are going to go parabolic.

  124. chicagofinance says:

    zieba says:
    November 6, 2009 at 10:57 am
    Question for the old dawgs – If we stopped hemorrhaging jobs and things are leveling off – yeah right – why does it feel like the floor is about to drop out and indicators are about to go parabolic?

    z: we are near NYC…the center of the black hole……most of the rest of country was whacked starting in 2005….NYC was in the clear through 2006 if not the first half of 2007. When BSAM blew up in June 2007 it was the beginning of the end. Most of the rest of country had been smacked for 2 years at that point.

  125. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Re: Manufactured in USA

    I’m curious….what exactly IS made in the USA these days ??

    Some Automobiles (including US Ops of Foreign Companies)
    Aerospace – Boeing & Gen Dynamics
    The Arms Idustry – Raytheon, Colt Industries etc

    anything else ??

  126. Alap says:

    hot dogs

  127. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Hot Dogs are going to be an important part of the food pyramid, on a going-forward basis….HA!

    Do they consider the Food Industry as part of the Manufacturing Sector ??

  128. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    A partial listing of the Manufacturing Sector.
    I had overloooked the big Beverage & Tobacco, and Petroleum.

    “Out of the 17 industry groups that make up the manufacturing sector, just two — beverages & tobacco and machinery & equipment — reported higher growth in FY09 compared with the previous fiscal.
    Industries clocking negative rates included metal, leather, food and wood products besides wool, silk & manmade textiles, cotton and jute textiles, rubber, plastic & petroleum. Worse, spiraling input costs chipped away at the profit margins of companies.”

  129. jamil says:

    Stu:
    “Can anyone else come up with a lopsided bet to get rid of Jamil? I tried.”

    Don’t worry. If Dems and Obambi are in power after 2012 elections, I’m the least of your worries. Besides, given the state of this country then, I have probably moved abroad by then.

  130. relo says:

    131: Like the guy from China said, we make bubbles.

  131. John says:

    10% unemployment is not so bad considering the % of people laid off who are dual income. The extra income was just icing on the cake, little mad money baby. Married Single Income Households with Children and a stay at home spouse out of work is only number that matters. Those people will scrub toliets and be mop boy in times square if they have too. If they are unemployed it is a depression. My female friends with young kids who are laid off are banking unemployment and saving on childcare. They are looking not so much. Mr. O keeps giving them more weeks to collect money for nothing so why not.

  132. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [123] sean

    Frank’s district has no part of Boston in it. It is made up of well-off (heavily jewish) western suburbs like Newton, Wellesley, and Sharon, and extends down across SE Mass to encompass the poorer exburbs from below Framingham through Taunton and Fall River/New Bedford. So Barney has a district heavy in wealthier educated-liberal and jewish suburbs, and blue collar or permanent welfare populations in the “bermuda triangle”, which have a broad ethnic mix (traditionally portuguese, now increasingly hispanic). Very few areas that are so substantially christian white or independent/conservative that you’d notice it. So it is a pretty safe district.

  133. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [138] john

    Spelling, punctuation, capitalization all vastly improved. Syntax much better.

    John has been abducted by an alien life force.

  134. Qwerty says:

    Turns out, it’s not different here…. the Upper East Side gets whacked:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/closetohome/view/

  135. BC Bob says:

    “10% unemployment is not so bad considering the % of people laid off who are dual income.”

    J,

    I stopped there. What a crock of s#it.

  136. Stu says:

    “Besides, given the state of this country then, I have probably moved abroad by then.”

    Where you gonna move to?

  137. 3b says:

    #142 Bc Agreed. Many dual income need every dime.Losing one income will be devastating for many.

  138. A.West says:

    Rats.
    Look’s like I’d be excluded from the new tax credit on both household income and home price.
    Looks like my mission from our Dear Leader is only to give until it hurts.

  139. BC Bob says:

    John,

    Not bad either, just a 40% increase, yoy.

    “About 2.4 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force in October, reflecting an increase of 736,000 from a year earlier.”

    “These individuals were not in the labor force, wanted and were available for work, and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed because they had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey.”

  140. BC Bob says:

    John,

    Not bad either, just a 40% increase, yoy.

    “About 2.4 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force in October, reflecting an increase of 736,000 from a year earlier.”

    “These individuals were not in the labor force, wanted and were available for work, and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed because they had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey.”

  141. NJCoast says:

    House in Spring Lake closed on MLS yesterday

    List price- $6,999,900
    Sold price- $5,558,500

    New owner’s name- Richard Schottenfeld.
    Name sound familiar? Yep that Scottenfeld.

  142. John says:

    There is an old German saying “the baby brings the bread”. I have found that sometimes the 32-35 year old Dad who was a bit of a goof off in his career cause he had a wife pulling in a good buck finds religion when the wife stays home and vacations, new cars, dinners out etc. are all gone and a big night out is a pizza bought with a pennysaver coupon.

    That guy all at once starts working OT, asking for more responibilities, joining networking groups and starts bulking up his resume. After a five year struggle he usually gets enough gains where he replaces 100% of his wife’s income.

    The guy who wife keeps working who is a slackard becomes an even bigger slackard, I have to leave early to pick up kids at child care, can’t go on business trip, parent teacher night, a whole new bunch of excuses.

    Many people can juggle dual incomes. However, I noticed the 1970s/1980’s era male has a large % of slackard who moved from Mommy taking care on them to their wife taking care of them in their prolonged adolence. They need to man up at some point. I think the recession is great. Let the slackard male either lose his job and stay home and unhandcuff his wife so she can excel or do it himself. The dual income household with a slackard husband who can never support more than 50% of his family on his sole income must be stopped. Who wants these guys as son-in-laws or even sons.

  143. John says:

    What tax credit?

    A.West says:
    November 6, 2009 at 12:06 pm
    Rats.
    Look’s like I’d be excluded from the new tax credit on both household income and home price.
    Looks like my mission from our Dear Leader is only to give until it hurts.

  144. Secondary Market says:

    last week some one complained about doom and gloom and i suggested sunshine friday’s so here ya go:

    – i now qualify for gubmint cheese due to tax extension

    – just recieved a 10% raise on my base salary

    – company started a new 401k w/ 3% employer match (on yearly salary).

    – also profit sharing plan w/ retro active vesting based on length of employment.

    green shoots do grow! (firmly knocks on wood and prepares for a 20% price drop in my newly acquired house.)

  145. daddyo says:

    “So why then is New Jersey at the bottom of so many high education categories: 50th in per capita funding; 47th in college capacity, and therefore, worst, by far, at keeping students in-state.

    About 35,000 kids leave New Jersey each year to go to college and take about $6 billion with them.

    Shelly says the money isn’t going far, either. Most New Jersey students stay in the Mid-Atlantic or New England.

    As a Rutgers alumni, I have the answer to that one in three words. The campus sucks.

    It’s probably the worst college campus that isn’t located inside a major city. When you expect students spend 3 hours a day on a bus going between campuses, you cannot possibly expect people to want to go there as a first choice.

  146. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    NJCoast –

    I don’t recognize the name Schottenfeld – who is he ??

    That’s a lot of house…..what would you expect to pay for a 2 year old house on .4 Acres of Ocean-front property with 6 bedrooms and 5 or so baths ??

    The asking price was $6.9 Megabucks, he got a bargain at $5.5M….HA!!

  147. jamil says:

    Stu:
    “Where you gonna move to?”

    London or SE Asia.

  148. zieba says:

    John,

    I find myself strangely comforted by your rapid return to pontification. Tone the cohesiveness down a notch and you’ll be as familiar as a well worn flannel.

    The only dual income family that can afford a loss of one, are those where one of the spouses had a hobby job. A hobby job is one taken to keep the spouse occupied, something like dabbling with a start-up or a boutique-retail job.

    I agree with 3b wholeheartedly, many (if not most) hard working dual incomes need every dime. A majority of those, having drank the NAR kool aid, spread themselves dangerously thin. There are no life jackets on this boat baby!

    In other news, GS squeezed SBUX to 20.

    You guys remember a few years ago when we mercilessly bashed the suv driving sbux drinking soccer mom? It was the go-to for a while… those were the good ol’ days when we were dismissed and our views were met with blank stares.

  149. BC Bob says:

    “I have found that sometimes the 32-35 year old Dad who was a bit of a goof off in his career cause he had a wife pulling in a good buck finds religion when the wife stays home and vacations, new cars, dinners out etc. are all gone and a big night out is a pizza bought with a pennysaver coupon.”

    http://www.imageenvision.com/md/0003-0703-1221-0462.jpg

  150. morpheus says:

    94:
    I didn’t know jamil practiced law in NJ. They really have to make the bar exam more difficult.

    Ps: have not read your article yet. Will do so in good time.

  151. sean says:

    Scottenfeld is a member of “The Octopussy”.

    This story of insider trading is going to get real interesting.

  152. Pat says:

    Cindy, thanks for posting links today.

  153. confused in NJ says:

    99 weeks unemployment in NJ. Not bad. Too bad none of them are looking for work.

  154. NJCoast says:

    Fiddy-

    Where do you think he got the money to buy the Spring Lake house?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=apx0o7rJ_yyQ

  155. NJCoast says:

    Fiddy-

    Where do you think he got the money to buy the Spring Lake house?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=apx0o7rJ_yyQ

  156. Stu says:

    “London or SE Asia.”

    Can I buy your ticket? :P

  157. jamil says:

    another nice thing hidden in the health care bill.
    The millionaire’s tax (income >500k) is not indexed to inflation so it is just like the AMT that dems passed decades ago (“for the 20 rich families”).

    This is assuming the limits would not lowered. Expect the productive 40% part of population having the pleasure of paying millionaire’s tax in a few years. Guess all those Obambi-worshipping college kids get a rude wakening one April in not so distant future..

  158. jamil says:

    Stu:
    “Can I buy your ticket? :P”

    Yes

  159. jamil says:

    and I only fly first-class to Asia.

  160. lisoosh says:

    John says:
    November 6, 2009 at 11:56 am

    “My female friends with young kids who are laid off are banking unemployment and saving on childcare. They are looking not so much. Mr. O keeps giving them more weeks to collect money for nothing so why not.”

    Actually I know a couple of those so John isn’t entirely off the mark.

    On the other hand, they are smoking crack thinking that they will sit out the recession until the checks stop coming and then jump back in, kind of like delusional home sellers waiting for the market to rebound.

    When the checks stop coming they will find they now have a big “gap” in their resumes, their contacts aren’t so useful anymore and they are saddled with kids with short school hours and endless days off.
    Why hire an older person with small kids and a tight schedule when you can get an unencumbered 25 year old who will pull ridiculous hours and work for peanuts?

    I already see it -a friend who had been CEO of her own tech company for 16 years (had to close the doors when business dried up and creditors weren’t paying their bills) can’t even get part time work as a bank teller. Either she is too “encumbered” for appropriate high level work or “overqualified”. Her family really needs her income too and they are starting to look at making some really difficult choices.

  161. yikes says:

    lisoosh says:
    November 4, 2009 at 1:37 pm

    jamil says:
    November 4, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    “So how excatly I was wrong? ACORN operatives were spotted and they were active in NJ, as WSJ reported.”

    I know I’m going to regret this but….the WSJ link you provided wasn’t a journalistic WSJ piece, it was an op-ed. There are no reporting standards for it.

    what he said, Jamil.
    you were way, way off. again. as you always are, politically.

  162. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Ohhhhhh….I did not recognize his name in connection with that insider trading.

    It’s been quite a week for young Richard. Buy an Oceanfront Estate, Have Your Firm Blown-Up in a Scandal.

    How’s he going to follow that up ??

  163. John says:

    You are obviously confused today, I am not offering opinions I am offering facts.

    zieba says:
    November 6, 2009 at 12:25 pm
    John,

    I find myself strangely comforted by your rapid return to pontification. Tone the cohesiveness down a notch and you’ll be as familiar as a well worn flannel.

    The only dual income family that can afford a loss of one, are those where one of the spouses had a hobby job. A hobby job is one taken to keep the spouse occupied, something like dabbling with a start-up or a boutique-retail job.

    I agree with 3b wholeheartedly, many (if not most) hard working dual incomes need every dime. A majority of those, having drank the NAR kool aid, spread themselves dangerously thin. There are no life jackets on this boat baby!

  164. HEHEHE says:

    Yeah Sparky, John hangs with the high rollers down at Belmar

  165. John says:

    Only went to Belmar once, I would not say it was White Trash as the Italians Guidos from Brooklyn and SI have the Orange Colored Fake Tans.

    I would like to coin a new phase and use it in a sentence.

    “No one goes to Belmar anymore as that is where all the orange trash hangs out”

  166. #172 – I think John changed jobs and became a detective.

  167. lisoosh says:

    On the women laid off remaining at home:

    Once you get to 2/3 kids daycare costs can run over $2000 a month. Add in assorted taxes, especially at a higher tax rate, commuting costs, appropriate clothing for work and other expenses and to break even the woman needs to earn at least $50-60k. For people in that position, they are working not so much for the money as for the chance to continue with their careers without a “gap”. The payoff is supposed to come when the kids go to school and they can again be in the black, or the money is used to pay for private school.

    To run a profit, a woman with small kids really needs to earn around $65k and up. So for many, losing the expenses, $24k a year in unemployment is pretty reasonable. Plus they get to actually see their kids.

    Is $65k-$70k now considered a “hobby job”?

  168. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I have always been of the opinion that HLS grads (and students) were self-important, somewhat sociopathic putzes.

    This does nothing to change my opinion of them.

    From the ABA law blog:

    “The law firm Sidley Austin has rescinded an employment offer to a Harvard law graduate who has turned himself in to police for allegedly setting fire to a Sept. 11 memorial in Manhattan.

    The suspect, 26-year-old Brian Schroeder, is a 2009 graduate of Harvard Law School, the Harvard Law Record reports. He was a 2008 summer associate at Sidley Austin; a permanent offer of employment has been rescinded, Sidley Austin partner Bill Conlon told the ABA Journal.

    Schroeder turned himself in for the blaze at the Memorial Park chapel housing the remains of unidentified Sept. 11 victims on Saturday evening, according to the New York Post and the New York Times. The remains were unharmed, but mementos such as photos and flowers were either damaged or stolen. Sources told the Post that the Saturday morning fire may have been set as part of a drunken dare.

    Schroeder was co-president of HLS Lambda and served on a task force considering the impact of military recruiting on the campus gay community, according to the Harvard Law Record. He was a theater major as an undergraduate at Duke, and acted in Harvard’s school satire called the Parody. He also edited the Harvard Latino Law Review.

    An unidentified relative of Schroeder’s told the Post that he has no radical political bent. “It’s clearly out of his character and I’m sure he feels for the victims’ families,” the relative added.”

  169. safeashouses says:

    #141 Qwerty,

    That’s a pretty depressing show. Although most of those people seemed to be living near the edge when times were good. The Florida scene is even more depressing.

  170. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [175] lisoosh

    Said as succintly as it can be said.

    BTW, true for guys as well. Perhaps more so since daddy time off is often career fatal

  171. HEHEHE says:

    Yeah, yeah, yeah only been there once.

    We all know Johnny’s got gold…flopping around on his waxed chest as he dances to the pulsating sounds at D’jais all summer long.

  172. BC Bob says:

    “pulsating sounds at D’jais all summer long.’

    Bring back Holme and 5 for $1.00.

  173. schabadoo says:

    Today, it’s officially O’s recession.

    –The jobless rate rose to 10.2% in October from 9.8% in September — first time in the double digits since 1983—

    Two years into Reagan’s term and it’s still “Carter’s recession”…

  174. HEHEHE says:

    Former employee opens fire at Orlando office tower

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_orlando_office_shooting

    I had a feeling this would be the case

  175. Qwerty says:

    RE: “I have to leave early to pick up kids at child care, can’t go on business trip, parent teacher night”

    John, is “success” for you viewed only in dollar amounts? How would a kid raised with a $300K/yr daddy who’s never around compare with a kid raised by a $100K/yr daddy who’s always around?

  176. John says:

    Places like GS and JPM pretty much 45 is end of line and by the time your 50 BD rolls around your are done. If a mom graduated a great school was fast tracked and then went back to work after kid one by the time the last kid rolls around and she is 40 she might as well call it a day, her best earning years are behind her. Younger, hipper, second generation women who are 28 and willing to work 70 hours a week with no husband or kids are already snapping at your heels. Play hard, work hard and call it a day by the latest 45.

    65K is a hobby job if you are backing off 40% tax if husband works, to make it 39k and then back out 24K for childcare, you are working for 15K a year. Next if I add in commute, lunches, drycleaning and take out food, maybe a maid you are losing money.

    lisoosh says:
    November 6, 2009 at 1:39 pm
    On the women laid off remaining at home:

    Once you get to 2/3 kids daycare costs can run over $2000 a month. Add in assorted taxes, especially at a higher tax rate, commuting costs, appropriate clothing for work and other expenses and to break even the woman needs to earn at least $50-60k. For people in that position, they are working not so much for the money as for the chance to continue with their careers without a “gap”. The payoff is supposed to come when the kids go to school and they can again be in the black, or the money is used to pay for private school.

    To run a profit, a woman with small kids really needs to earn around $65k and up. So for many, losing the expenses, $24k a year in unemployment is pretty reasonable. Plus they get to actually see their kids.

    Is $65k-$70k now considered a “hobby job”?

  177. John says:

    Nope I am saying that if both parents do that they each can have a 100K job. If one parent commits to work he/she can have a 200K job.

    Qwerty says:
    November 6, 2009 at 1:57 pm
    RE: “I have to leave early to pick up kids at child care, can’t go on business trip, parent teacher night”

    John, is “success” for you viewed only in dollar amounts? How would a kid raised with a $300K/yr daddy who’s never around compare with a kid raised by a $100K/yr daddy who’s always around?

  178. Qwerty says:

    Safeashouses, the classic line was the woman stating “This isn’t supposed to happen here.”

    The other geniuses decided to open a $4/cup coffee house in 2007, when the economic storm was clearly ahead, and are now $200K in credit card debt.

  179. jamil says:

    181: schabadoo
    “Two years into Reagan’s term and it’s still “Carter’s recession”…”

    Paul Volcker had independently raised interest rates sky-high. It naturally killed employment as companies could not operate, regardless of what the White House does.

    Eventually, the rates came down and then the pro-growth policies enabled by Reagan started the great boom.

    Today, interest rates are zero. The difference is the lack of pro-growth policies. Government cannot create jobs no matter what sort of porkulus bills are passes.

    Only businesses can and dems have been harassing businesses since 2006 (minimum wage increase, lead toy bill, constant threat of cap-and-tax and health care costs and other government mandates).

    Companies start hiring when 1) interest rates are low, 2) the threat of further government mandates and forced unionization threats are removed, 3) tax policies are more business-friendly

  180. safeashouses says:

    #187 qwerty,

    I also liked the guy who bought the foreclosed house in Florida and said “you can’t go wrong with real estate”. That made me laugh.

    I couldn’t believe they opened a frigging coffee shop. When gas hit $4 a gallon donuts and coffees were one of the first things people cut.

  181. John says:

    90% employment, 22 million people in Tristate area. Almost 20 million people who can buy your POS cape!!!! I sound like a realtor

  182. d2b says:

    This is O’s recession. It became his when he decided to continue the same course and bail out business and industry. We probably would have been worse off with an aggressive policy but we would have recovered quicker.

  183. make money says:

    This is B’s recessions but O is gonna be viewed as someone who’s incapable of leading a recovery.

  184. jamil says:

    194: dems were in charge in Congress since 2006 elections and the housing crisis roots are decades old, including Community Reinvestment Act by Carter (forced banks to hand out loans to people who are unlikely to pay them back, and to pay protection money to ACORN). In Fannie Mae, all execs were leading dems and Fannie Mae got into the business of handing out risky loans to people who were unlikely to pay them back (and to pay themselves megabonuses based on that performance).

  185. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [157] morpheus

    The NJ bar exam was ridiculously easy. I am sorry now that I studied for it. Total waste of time.

  186. make money says:

    John,

    The pool of chickens who have joined this site looking to land a Big Bass has tripled in the last 12 months.

    Meetrich.com is the first, largest online personals site in the world to date, marry successful, beautiful singles.

    Our members include CEOs, pro athletes, doctors, lawyers, investors, entrepreneurs, beauty queens, fitness models, and Hollywood celebrities, just to name a few.

  187. make money says:

    Dow still 9 ounces of shiny. My prediction is we get to 8 by year end.

  188. 3b says:

    #199 Perhaps Monday will see a delayed reaction to todays dismal #’s.

  189. Stu says:

    “#199 Perhaps Monday will see a delayed reaction to todays dismal #’s.”

    Or equally as likely, a 3% gain.

    The new paradigm is that job cuts are good for EPS. An increased unemployment rate means companies more likely to meet earnings estimates. Until, no one is longer working.

  190. jamil says:

    “Three Decades of Subsidized Risk”

    “The greed merchants needed a co-conspirator, Mr. Forstmann argues, and that co-conspirator is and was the United States government…

    This is where the real sin of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac comes into play. Both were created by Congress to make housing affordable to the middle class. But when they began guaranteeing subprime loans, they actually began pricing out the working class from the market until the banking business responded with ways to make repayment of mortgages allegedly easier through adjustable rates loans that start off with low payments. But these loans, fully sanctioned by the government, were a ticking time bomb, as we’re all now so painfully aware.”

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703363704574503404180541392.html

    again, something you won’t see in State Media..

  191. Stu says:

    “again, something you won’t see in State Media..”

    I suppose Jamil that Glass Steagall had nothing to do with it or Phil Gramm’s crusade to remove it.

    See what your non-state controlled media say’s about this and please report back.

    Your prize? An acorn.

  192. John says:

    A pretty 26 year old girl who makes 60K a year spending every last nickle and then some to get a share in an apt in NYC and a share in a house in the hamptons is making a wise investment. The 40K she could have saved living at home the next two years is peanuts once she lands an Investment Banker. It does happen, my buddy, who not rich but does make 500K a year wanted a stay at home wife from the get go, not even till wait till they had kids. He basically had every 30-36 year old career women boiling mad. His current wife quit work the week she got engaged. I call it current as with gold diggers you never know.

    make money says:
    November 6, 2009 at 2:55 pm
    John,

    The pool of chickens who have joined this site looking to land a Big Bass has tripled in the last 12 months.

    Meetrich.com is the first, largest online personals site in the world to date, marry successful, beautiful singles.

    Our members include CEOs, pro athletes, doctors, lawyers, investors, entrepreneurs, beauty queens, fitness models, and Hollywood celebrities, just to name a few.

  193. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Unbelievable.

    Obama signs the umemployment extension bill. How does he describe it?

    “”I just signed into law a bill that will help grow our economy, save and create new jobs and provide relief to struggling families and businesses . . .”

    Are we talking about the same thing, or is my Newspeak dictionary out of date?

  194. Stu says:

    Nom,

    You are trying way too hard. Obama’s hopium is truly no different then W’s mission accomplished.

    They are all the same.

  195. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [205] john

    my favorite golddigger story was from college. Back then, I dated an MHC student. After winter break, when I went to the dorm, there was a large harp case in the hallway (surprised to see that harps actually had cases).

    Thing sat there for several weeks. Finally, I asked my GF what was up with the harp case?

    She told me it belonged to a sophomore who was dating an HLS student. Over winter break, he rocked her. So, upon returning to school in January, she promptly withdrew from MHC, packed up her dorm room and moved out.

    After all, she got her MRS degree; why spend daddy’s money on a BA?

  196. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [207] stu

    Who’s trying? I didn’t look for that quote; it was in the CNN story.

    And I agree that they are in the same mode of suspension of reality.

  197. jamil says:

    206. O has been consulting Stu. Just repeat bush’s fault and phil gramm again and again

  198. John says:

    “Our members include CEOs, pro athletes, doctors, lawyers, investors, entrepreneurs, beauty queens, fitness models, and Hollywood celebrities, just to name a few”.

    Only in America is a “beauty queen” and a “fitness model” on the same level as a Doctor or a Lawyer. I love it. Girls hit the gym and keep up with latest fashion while geeky men work like dogs till they are 35 building a medical practice then just marry them.

    I date a fashion model very briefly, her career was in dumps so she did the school teacher thing, doesn’t pay much but rich guys love school teachers. Anyhow she was dead broke and living in New York City in a studio she could not afford and she was grubbing off parents to boot when she got her masters. Well after a few weeks of dating I was to take her to a wedding and the church was in Queens, she said just pick me up at Parents house as I had to go to LI to get my car anyhow. Her step-dad and her wer having a blow out fight when I got there. He turns to me, hey you own that Mercedes, I say Yes?, then he says where do you live, I say a Coop, then he goes do you sublet or own, I go own? Guy them yells I don’t understand why you don’t just pack your bags tonight and move in with him, you can’t afford city and we don’t want you back here again. Later I found out she had turned 29 and that is the carriage turning into pumpkin stage. Modeling was over, teaching paid squat and the rich guys wanted the 21-26 year old girls still modeling, she missed her chance. Anyhow I broke up with her a few weeks later. Too much drama, let alone charge card bills I would inherit. ran into her two years later when I was engaged and OMG, she was back in Queens broke and at home at 31, she still was smoking hot but she was like a Corvette Convetible with 100K on odometer, still looking hot but no one wants to buy something that is soon to fall apart.

  199. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [204] stu

    last night’s panel, particularly Dinallo, was of the opinion that repealing Glass-Steagall had a lot to do with the assumption of risk by banks and insurers. But in the end, they were near universal in blaming it on overuse of derivatives, and overeliance on securitization.

  200. Stu says:

    Nice research there Jamil.

    Go back to listening to Drudge already. I heard he just found some proof that the cold weather today was directly attributed to Obama’s climate policy.

  201. 3b says:

    #210 The point is dem or repub they are just different sides of the same coin. No difference whatsoever.

    The country is rapidly declining in all areas, and neither party cares. Simple as that. Once you accept this fact you will achieve inner peace like I have.

  202. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [211] john

    JOHN IS BACK!!!

  203. Stu says:

    Nom,

    I truly think it was a balance of both. Dem’s want to make sure they stay in office so made housing available to their largest voting block. Repubs wanted to make sure their largest contributors were placated so they gave Wall Street a Dino-sized bone.

    Both groups got what they went for.

    Dems are now ruling over a POS economy and the rich Repubs got richer.

    Isn’t life grand.

  204. Stu says:

    John IS back.

  205. John says:

    My favorite gold digger was a canadian nanny who was insanely smoking hot on a visa that was soon to expire. She was like 5:10 inch tall. Ran into her at a snooty charity party for very rich kids, like a junior league for 20 and 30 somethings with rich parents, no I am not rich but friends were blue blooded, anyhow she is all over my friend Ed, who is a 6:3 Irish guy who was only a VP in IT but she was a new gold digger and only a nanny without a green card. Actually told him she has 90 days to find someone to marry or else. Ed said he could have nailed her that night but refused, she was so hot he felt he would be ensared. Afer that story I wore onion and garlic to ward her off. Then this rich punk kid who had a job as a clerk but loaded parents from Old Brookvile LI, right by Jlow who was 7 years younger and one inch shorter and skinny got smitten by her pixie dust and they got married in two weeks and daddy gave them downpayment on coop, she got pregant asap before buyers remorse took over. The girl lived the american dream. She later told him she never had any intent to return to canada as she was going to snare a man in her 12 months here, friend actually said “she was lucky” to find someone like him that was “true love”.

  206. John says:

    Im in a rambling mood today!

  207. Im in a rambling mood today!

    3:40 and the booze finally starts to kick in.

  208. Stu says:

    Anyone notice the correlation between the unemployment rate and the DJIA?

    Come onnnnnnnnnnnn joblessness!

  209. John says:

    I am having trouble thinking with the damm bagpipes at Yankee parade, 4pm and drunks are still out.

  210. we says:

    High unemployment translates into smoother times in Washington, who the hell will oppose Government bailouts/homebuyer credit/business tax cuts/unemployment extension now.

  211. frank says:

    #223,
    you’re writing on a blog all day, what’s there to think about?

  212. Sean says:

    re: Nannies, if I ever show up to a GTG, after a few drinks ask me about the two nannies from Iceland that I picked up at Donovan’s reef on a Sunday night.

  213. BC Bob says:

    “Donovan’s reef on a Sunday night.”

    Sean,

    Don’t need to ask, you gave it away.

  214. gary says:

    I think I’m gonna list my POS for a 2005 price but I’m putting a clause in the contract that if you buy, you must feed the rats on the property.

  215. gary says:

    And what was I thinking by taking this job a few months back? I could’ve worked out 5 days a week and collected tax payer handout cheese for another year! D@mn, I’m such an idi*t.

  216. make money says:

    And what was I thinking by taking this job a few months back? I could’ve worked out 5 days a week and collected tax payer handout cheese for another year! D@mn, I’m such an idi*t.

    Smack your employer and dare him to fire you. By summer time you’d be Jacked and fiting in at Belmar.

  217. Orion says:

    #121-List of Borders closing in NJ:

    Eatontown/Monmouth Mall
    May’s Landing/Hamilton Mall
    Moorestown/Moorestown Mall
    Paramus/Paramus Park Mall
    Phillipsburg/Phillipsburg Mall
    Rockaway/Rockaway Townsquare
    Toms River/Ocean County Mall
    Voorhees/Voorhees Town Center

  218. Orion says:

    #231- Sorry, I meant Waldenbooks. The complete national list is on their website.

  219. #231 – Eatontown/Monmouth Mall

    Thanks Orion.
    Monmouth Mall is becoming a ghost town.

  220. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    At the risk of kicking the hornet’s nest, I tried to find the NPR clip I heard this morning about the Ft. Hood shooter.

    This site has the text of what I heard on NPR this morning although NPR mysteriously doesn’t have it. Weird.

    It also has Obama’s first conference about it, which he grafted onto another event. He ought not have done that as the effect is pretty surreal. After watching it, I have to agree with those who say he doesn’t do well without a teleprompter.

    Anyway, watch for yourself:

    http://www.blackfive.net/main/2009/11/fort-hood-shooting-aftermath.html

    (FWIW, I found this site looking for the NPR story. Not my cup of tea, but SAS might like it).

  221. still_looking says:

    BFF

    Ameris Bank, Moultrie, Georgia, Assumes All of the Deposits of United Security Bank, Sparta, Georgia

    sl

  222. still_looking says:

    BFF again

    Liberty Bank and Trust Company, New Orleans, Louisiana, Assumes All of the Deposits of Home Federal Savings Bank, Detroit, Michigan

    sl

  223. Orion says:

    #233-I agree.

    And, along Route 35 between Neptune/Eatontown, the commercial vacancies is staggering.

  224. d2b says:

    Just looked at the Borders list and it’s all Mall stores. They are closing stores in Malls that had little vacancy 2 years ago. I worked in a retail corporate HQ years ago. Some of those malls were untouchable.

  225. still_looking says:

    Yet more BFF

    Alerus Financial, National Association, Grand Forks, North Dakota, Assumes All of the Deposits of Prosperan Bank, Oakdale, Minnesota

    Central Bank of Kansas City, Kansas City, Missouri, Assumes All of the Deposits of Gateway Bank of St. Louis, St. Louis, Missouri

    sl

  226. Cindy says:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704013004574517303668357682.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

    Pat @ 158 – Glad you liked the articles today. Here is another – Carl Schramm on new businesses.

    New businesses not small businesses create jobs

    He claims 1/4 of the new businesses in the last five years were started by people who weren’t born here. He says it isn’t the size of the business that matters – but how new it is – That young companies create the jobs.

    An interesting read….

  227. still_looking says:

    BFF marches on….

    East West Bank, Pasadena, California Assumes All the Deposits of United Commercial Bank, San Francisco, California

    sl

  228. sas says:

    I don’t know if kettle1 still out there?

    but here is a little nugget:

    “International Center for Advanced Internet Research (iCAIR)”

    where did the funds come from?
    being used for spoliation & extortion?

    SAS

  229. sas says:

    this whole Ft. Hood story is rotten.

    i don’t know what to believe.
    but i do know, i don’t believe anything I hear from the military or there mouth piece media.

    SAS

  230. sas says:

    interesting story:

    “GM’s Money Trees”: Displacement of Rural Brazilians Highlights Consequences of “Cap and Trade” System”
    http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/5/gms_money_trees_displacement_of_rural

  231. Shore Guy says:

    “And, along Route 35 between Neptune/Eatontown, the commercial vacancies is staggering”

    Other thn the Wegman’s plaza in Ocean Twp, it is a mess.

  232. james says:

    If you want to know how bad the economy is talk to people from Ohio. I talked to a guy from Toledo Ohio recently. He lost his job 10 months ago and has been looking since. They are moving Taco Bell’s out of his town and he just received an eviction notice. Add insult to injury he just was diagnosed with a serious GI condition.

    I was in DC on Thurs. Catholic Priest got arrested in front of Nancy Rat Face Pelosi’s office. There was a (sniper) on top of the capital. I could feel the crosshairs on my forehead :)

    Walking around DC aka Disneyland you would think what recession? Young silver spooned punks walking around in expensive suits who never ran a fing thing in their life never mind worked a day in their life. Lobbyists everywhere and office buildings going up everywhere. Welcome to big government. While you suffer someone is gaining in DC.

    Angry Rant over and out.

  233. james says:

    Heres the video from Nancy Pelosis office.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5eNTYpmPsE

  234. I’ll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)

  235. The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod’s. It works well, but isn’t as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that’s not an issue, but if you’re planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod’s larger screen and better browser may be important.

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