October foreclosures up 19%

From the WSJ:

US Foreclosure Filings Up 19% In Oct, But Positives Seen

The number of U.S. properties for which a foreclosure filing was received grew 19% in October from a year earlier, but declined for the third month sequentially, an indication the foreclosure tide may be turning.

Foreclosure filings – default notices, auction sale notices and bank repossessions – were reported on 332,292 properties for the month, down 3.3% from September and resulting in one of every 385 U.S. housing units receiving one.

The troubles in the residential sector are expected to continue throughout 2009, and not surprisingly, much of the pain is coming from former bubble markets that are now dominating RealtyTrac’s report.

From CNBC:

Foreclosures Fall Again But Improvement Likely Fleeting

Foreclosure rates fell for the third consecutive month in October, but remained sharply higher than a year ago, according to a new report, with analysts cautioning that the improvement was at best temporary.

“It’s good to see that foreclosures have slowed down marginally, but we don’t really think it’s a trend,” said Rick Sharga, vice president of marketing at foreclosure tracking Web site RealtyTrac, which released the report.

Legislation in some states has slowed foreclosures, says Sharga, but the impact will be temporary and won’t ultimately prevent most of them. In Nevada, for example, foreclosures dropped 26 percent from the previous month because of new legislation requiring mediation before initiating foreclosure proceedings.

RealtyTrac predicts that 3.2 to 3.4 million properties will go into foreclosure in 2009, up from 2.3 million in 2008.

From Bloomberg:

U.S. Foreclosure Filings Surpass 300,000 for 8th Straight Month

U.S. foreclosure filings surpassed 300,000 for an eighth straight month as unemployment made it tougher for homeowners to pay their bills, RealtyTrac Inc. said.

A total of 332,292 properties received a default or auction notice or were seized by banks in October, up 19 percent from a year earlier, Irvine, California-based RealtyTrac said today. One in every 385 households received a filing. The tally fell 3 percent from September, the third consecutive monthly decline.

“The foreclosure problem is still with us and will keep prices down,” Stephen Miller, chairman of the economics department at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas, said in an interview. “The real issue is we don’t know what inventory banks are holding that they have yet to put on the market.”

Distressed real estate transactions accounted for 30 percent of all home sales in the third quarter as the median price fell 11 percent from a year earlier to $177,900, according to the National Association of Realtors. U.S. unemployment surged to a 26-year high of 10.2 percent in October as payrolls fell by 190,000 workers, the Labor Department said last week.

“The fundamental forces driving foreclosure activity in this housing downturn — high-risk mortgages, negative equity, and unemployment — continue to loom over any nascent recovery,” James Saccacio, chief executive officer of RealtyTrac, said in the statement. “We continue to see foreclosure activity levels that are substantially higher than a year ago in most states.”

Filings fell 12 percent from a year earlier in New Jersey, which had the 13th highest rate. They dropped 26 percent to 2,306 in Connecticut, and rose 28 percent to 4,797 in New York.

From CNN/Money:

Foreclosures: ‘Tide may be turning’

Could the foreclosure plague be ending?

Foreclosure filings were down 3% in October, the third consecutive month-over-month dip, according to RealtyTrac, the online seller of foreclosed homes.

To be sure, foreclosure rates are still elevated from a year ago: They’re up 18% compared with October 2008. But the month-over-month decrease followed a 4% drop in filings during September and a 1% fall in August.

“Three consecutive monthly declines is unprecedented for our report, and, on first blush, an indication that the foreclosure tide may be turning,” said James Saccacio, RealtyTrac’s CEO, in a prepared statement.

He cautioned, however, that three consecutive singles does not constitute a hitting streak. So there still may be dark days ahead.

This entry was posted in Housing Bubble, National Real Estate, Risky Lending. Bookmark the permalink.

462 Responses to October foreclosures up 19%

  1. grim says:

    From the Record:

    N.J. commercial foreclosures rise by 35 percent

    Commercial foreclosures in New Jersey jumped 35 percent in the third quarter, compared with the same period a year ago, as lenders and loan servicers went to court to take back 354 income-producing properties.

    Among the recently foreclosed-upon: a vacant seven-story office building at the foot of the George Washington Bridge in Fort Lee.

    “The real surprise is they’re not rising more dramatically,” said Gary Gabriel, executive vice president for the capital markets group at Cushman & Wakefield, a commercial real estate brokerage, in East Rutherford.

    The state’s third-quarter commercial foreclosures, while showing a 14 percent decrease from the 413 commercial foreclosures filed in the second quarter of this year, are another sign of continuing distress in the commercial real estate market, even as other sectors of the economy seem to be recovering from the recession.

    Many lenders continue to avoid foreclosure for loans that have matured and require refinancing, Gabriel noted. Refinancing commercial mortgages has become more difficult as property values have sunk and underwriting standards have tightened, so lenders are extending terms of the loans in hopes values will return.

    The result is a continued stalemate, Gabriel said. Owners don’t want to lose money or take smaller-than-expected returns, while lenders fear write-offs that could put craters in their balance sheets.

    “Everyone is waiting for improvements in the market,” said Gabriel, who added that he’s never seen so few transactions in his 20-year career.

    “No one wants to take hits.”

  2. grim says:

    From the Star Ledger:

    South Brunswick loses Wall Street Journal, Pfizer in one-week span

    Last week, Dow Jones announced it was closing its Wall Street Journal printing plant here, a move that will slash about 55 jobs.

    Then, on Monday, drug giant Pfizer announced plans to shutter its research facility in the Middlesex County township, taking about 450 jobs with it.

    “It’s very sad,” Mayor Frank Gambatese said. “This is not a good week for South Brunswick.”

    Nor for the region or state, experts say.

    Local officials are still assessing the damage to the town, a sprawling suburb of more than 41,000 residents. Pfizer alone pays hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes and water bills to the township each year.

    But the issue stretches beyond South Brunswick, business administrator Matthew Watkins said.

    “It’s more about the impact on the region,” Watkins said. “That’s the concern.”

    Both closings, expected to take effect next year, will also carry those jobs out of state.

  3. grim says:

    From New Jersey Newsroom:

    Poll finds New Jersey the 25th happiest state in the nation

    How are you doing Mr. and Mrs. New Jersey?

    Do you find yourself feeling happy half the time and sad half the time?

    Do you catch yourself daydreaming about the peace you might find in The Poconos?

    Do you find yourself wistfully watching the traffic disappear over the Delaware Memorial Bridge?

    Heck, even Gov. Corzine’s luxury Hoboken high-rise looks out over the New York skyline.

    Do you think you would be happier anywhere else but here?

    If that describes you, your emotional roller coaster could be attributed to the finding that New Jersey is the 25th happiest state in the nation.

  4. grim says:

    From the Philly Inquirer:

    N.J. at risk of economic calamity, study says

    New Jersey made it onto an undesirable top-10 list yesterday, ranking high among the states most at risk of economic calamity, according to a national research group.

    California is in a league of its own, but New Jersey also faces a steep climb out of the recession, according to a new study by the Pew Center on the States. Others in fiscal peril are Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Florida, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Rhode Island, the study authors warned.

    The states’ “fiscal situations are widely expected to worsen even when the national economy starts to recover,” the report said.

    New Jersey’s “math does not add up,” according to the report.

    Though its property taxes are the highest in the nation and it has increased sales and personal income taxes to generate more revenue in recent years, the Garden State still faces one of the biggest budget shortfalls, the study said.

    The report blamed “years of fiscal mismanagement” for “soaring debt and a persistent imbalance between what the state collects and what it spends.”

    The collapse of Wall Street last year further decimated New Jersey’s economy. The state’s long-term debt of more than $44 billion is characterized in the study as “eye-popping,” and is among the highest per-capita debt loads in the country. The state’s pension funds also are severely underfunded.

  5. SG says:

    Report: Central Jersey home prices dropped 8.9 percent in third quarter

    “There are a lot of things that play on the consumer’s mind right now, things they worry about that they never worried about before,” said Jim Brown, senior vice president of Kastle Mortgage Corp. in Freehold. “And it all has to do with jobs.”

    The National Association of Realtors reported that the median price of a home in Monmouth, Ocean, Middlesex and Somerset counties was $343,800 during the third quarter, down from $377,300 the same quarter a year ago. Prices have fallen 17.2 percent since their third-quarter peak in 2006.

    The housing market suffered since 2006, when many home owners couldn’t keep pace with their mortgage payments, defaulted on their loans and touched off a global recession.

  6. SG says:

    From prev. article,

    The region’s housing market performed better than the nation’s. The median home price nationwide was $177,900 during the third quarter, down 11.2 percent.

    And the region’s decline during the third quarter was more moderate than the second quarter, when prices fell 11.2 percent.

    “What it tells is us that the housing market has stabilized in most of New Jersey, and that the decline in prices is ending,” said Jeffrey Otteau, president of the Otteau Valuation Group, a research and consulting firm in East Brunswick.

    Major hurdles remain. The unemployment rate has soared to 8.7 percent in Monmouth County and to 9.6 percent in Ocean County. And the housing market is unlikely to improve substantialy until the job market recovers, experts said.

    “Everybody is concerned about what the future is going to bring for them,” said Tracy Cavanaugh, president of the CS Advisory Group, a Neptune-based mortgage consultant. “That’s something I haven’t seen before to this degree.”

  7. SG says:

    10 states face financial peril

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — The same economic pressures that pushed California to the brink of insolvency are wreaking havoc on other states, a new report has found.

    And how state officials deal with their fiscal problems could reverberate across the United States, according to the Pew Center on the States’ analysis released Wednesday.

    The 10 most troubled states are: Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon, Rhode Island and Wisconsin.

    Other states — including Colorado, Georgia, Kentucky, New York and Hawaii — were not far behind.

    New Jersey: The Garden State, which has been plagued by years of fiscal mismanagement, spends more than it collects in revenue. The collapse of Wall Street, which supports about one-third of New Jersey’s economy, has only made matters worse.

  8. grim says:

    “What it tells is us that the housing market has stabilized in most of New Jersey, and that the decline in prices is ending,” said Jeffrey Otteau, president of the Otteau Valuation Group, a research and consulting firm in East Brunswick.

    Keep saying the same thing long enough, and you are bound be right I guess.

  9. Schumpeter says:

    grim (8)-

    I’m done defending this guy. What a crock of bullshit.

    Probably bought and paid for, like any other media mouthpiece in the US.

  10. freedy says:

    sounds like chris could be same old ,same old
    and i voted for him.

  11. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Hmmm, decline in prices is ending? Continued unemployment above 10%, downward pressure on wages, and increased lending standards = stabilized prices….fascinating

  12. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Louise Yamada interview on Bloomberg:

    Louise Yamada Says Silver May Be Poised to `Break Out’ November 12 (Bloomberg) — Louise Yamada, managing director of Louise Yamada Technical Research Advisors, talks with Bloomberg’s Bernard Lo about the outlook for gold and silver prices


  13. confused in NJ says:

    10.freedy: I voted for Corzine first time out. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

  14. Not over by a longshot says:

    Foreclosures seen their peak. Not according to all those graphs showing the resents that are pending over the next few years. Do the people that make these predictions look at this stuff or just blurt out whatever comes to mind while sipping their latte’s?

  15. BC Bob says:

    “No one wants to take hits.”


    So they don’t believe in stop losses. How about doubling/tripling down?

  16. gary says:

    The collapse of Wall Street last year further decimated New Jersey’s economy. The state’s long-term debt of more than $44 billion is characterized in the study as “eye-popping,” and is among the highest per-capita debt loads in the country. The state’s pension funds also are severely underfunded.

    And yet, the cost of housing in a town where you can actually send your kid to the public schools is beyond words. A 3bd/2bth in a town that is still a few years away from its first drive-by will cost a half million dollars. That’s $500,000. A 20% down payment will run you $3400 per month in PITI. For the life of me, I still can’t figure out what is taking so long for price adjustments to occur as lending standards have returned to pre-madness fundamentals. When and if I decide to sell, I’m tacking on some sublime price because eveidently, a fool can be had if one waits long enough. I’m in no rush but if I’m going to trade up, someone else is paying for the push, it isn’t going to be me. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and those guys are handing out record bonuses this year. This blog sounds like doom and gloom because that’s exactly what it’s all become. You all are calling it exactly as you see it. If it wasn’t all so sad it would be a comedy.

  17. BC Bob says:

    “Do the people that make these predictions look at this stuff or just blurt out whatever comes to mind while sipping their latte’s?”


    There’s a reason F-TV never shows their feet on camera. Their webbed.

  18. Schumpeter says:

    HE (13)-

    I have always been in love with Louise Yamada.

  19. BC Bob says:

    “Poll finds New Jersey the 25th happiest state in the nation”


    I’m sure they will be doing cartwheels on Rt 17 after viewing the below.

    Courtesy of Mish;


  20. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “Foreclosures seen their peak. Not according to all those graphs showing the resents that are pending over the next few years.”

    How high would the foreclosure numbers be if banks were actually pursuing foreclosures?

  21. Schumpeter says:

    Another day closer to oblivion.

    At least Louise likes hi-ho.

  22. freedy says:

    the banks don’t want these crap boxes back
    plus the States are now on the side
    of the home owners.

  23. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Will Silver Outperform Now or Later?

    Several silver stocks are lagging their underlying metal but it seems that this is a temporary reaction to the weakness in the general stock market. Therefore, we’ll need to wait for a decisive action in either direction in the general stocks market before making final calls here.

    For now, it seems that a sell-off in the main stock indices would cause the rally in silver and silver stocks to be weaker. Speaking of the main stock indices, take a look at the chart below


    I was thinking of some hi-ho today but see if I can get cheaper after the jobless numbers.

  24. BC Bob says:


    Louise states that gold has outperformed the S&P? Ban her now. Come to think of it, why listen to her? After all, she’s a technician. That’s simply voodoomics.

    Silver? Tonto, saddle up.

  25. John says:

    Funny, on Long Island Foreclosures were down in October. But then again half of Long Island appears on Reality TV for a living and that business is booming.

  26. BC Bob says:

    Amazing, in a short period of time we have gravitated from RE never goes down to today’s positive news, foreclosures are down. Also, 4 years ago buyers were outbidding each other for my pos. Now, the govt is bribing buyers to get in. Fascinating.

  27. frank says:

    Forget South Brunswick, move to China or Australia for jobs.

  28. d2b says:

    Is it just me or does it seem like the layoff notices and risen in the last two weeks?

  29. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “Is it just me or does it seem like the layoff notices and risen in the last two weeks?”

    Easiest way for a company to make their 4th Q numbers is to cut headcount.

  30. 3b says:

    #8 so I guess that means prices are going to go up, even though unemployment is still rising, and NJ is on the danger of collapse list.

    Yes Mr. otteau it is the perfect recipe for the end of price declines and the start of rising prices.

  31. frank says:

    NJ Q/Q median prices from NAR are up 6%.
    Prices are bouncing back very fast, so buy a home now before they go up like in 2005.

  32. BC Bob says:

    “Prices are bouncing back very fast, so buy a home now before they go up like in 2005.”


    The higher a dead cat bounces, the harder the fall.

  33. 3b says:

    #32 Total BS.

  34. grim says:

    Prices always go up from q2 to q3 in NJ. There is a seasonal pattern that is almost always maintained.

    You can not compare quarter to quarter without seasonal adjustments or corrections for shift in mix.

    Fact of the matter is Q3 sales represent the largest homes sold through the year.

    This is mainly due to summer relocations of families prior to the new school year.

  35. grim says:

    Prices will fall, quarter over quarter for the next two quarters.

    How do I know? Because they almost always do.

  36. frank says:

    Then how do you explain the big gains in the rest of the country?

    “summer relocations of families prior to the new school year.” = total b.s.

  37. grim says:

    Who was talking about the rest of the country?

  38. BC Bob says:

    I would pay close attention to this one.

    Kudos to Nom.

    Nov. 11 (Bloomberg) — Emerson Electric Co. Chief Executive Officer David Farr said the U.S. government is hurting manufacturers with regulation and taxes and his company will continue to focus on growth overseas.

    “Washington is doing everything in their manpower, capability, to destroy U.S. manufacturing,” Farr said today in Chicago at a Baird Industrial Outlook conference. “Cap and trade, medical reform, labor rules.”

    “What do you think I am going to do?” Farr asked. “I’m not going to hire anybody in the United States. I’m moving. They are doing everything possible to destroy jobs.”


  39. grim says:

    NJ SFH sales by number of bedrooms, 2008

    4 or more bedrooms
    q1 44.0%
    q2 44.4%
    q3 47.6%
    q4 43.0%

    average price
    q1 372800
    q2 382000
    q3 384300
    q4 349500

    you think I make thi stuff up

  40. grim says:

    Posting from an iPhone is no fun.

  41. frank says:

    How can you compare anything to q4 2008? You can’t be serious.

  42. BC Bob says:


    You are trying to talk sense to a buffoon.

  43. frank says:

    I agree, it’s hard to talk sense to a buffoon like you.

  44. BC Bob says:

    Why be suspicious? Strictly pure talent at play.

    “Nov. 12 (Bloomberg) — Analysts say good timing alone doesn’t account for trading in bullish 3Com Corp. options yesterday.”

    “Volume in contracts to buy shares of the Marlborough, Massachusetts-based company surged to the highest level since September 2007 before Hewlett-Packard Co. said it would buy the maker of computer-networking equipment for $2.7 billion.”

    “Almost 4,000 of the November $5 calls and 3,300 December $5 calls traded, with almost all of the transactions occurring at noon. That compares with a total of six puts giving the right to sell 3Com shares.”


  45. BC Bob says:

    Frank [44],

    Make you’re way to the mall. We need a X-Mas shopping report.

  46. grim says:


    2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003 all follow the same exact pattern.

  47. frank says:

    This year, I will hire you to go shopping for me.
    The bonus season is going to be incredible this year, thanks to NJ taxpayers.

  48. still_looking says:


    Please frank, really… your rock misses you….go on now, shoo.


  49. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [39] BC bob

    Not happy to have predicted it, but thanks. In truth, this has been a long term trend that goes back decades.

    Had a screed prepared, but heck, I don’t feel like it today. Too much work and getting hammered by a sociopath of a partner.

  50. Jim says:

    Frank the realtor.

  51. still_looking says:

    Thanks, Clot… :)

    I needed that!… *cleans coffee off monitor*


  52. Sean says:

    re #39 – EMR just bought some. :)

  53. John says:

    Freddie Mac: 30-year fixed-rate mortgage avg 4.91%

  54. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [39] bc

    Further to Parr’s outburst, I see the administration is still lashing back at any criticism:

    “This attack isn’t supported by the facts,” Kevin Griffis, a spokesman for U.S. Commerce Secretary Gary Locke, said today in an e-mail from Singapore, where they are attending the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation meetings.

    “This administration has made a significant commitment to U.S. manufacturing, including reforming the country’s health insurance system to bring down costs and make American companies more competitive globally,” Griffis said. . . . ”

    I guess he is referring to the part where the companies get to dump their workers on the government in exchange for an 8% tax on total payroll.

    Yeah, I guess I can see how that may benefit some manufacturers, especially lower-wage industries where health costs are well north of 8% of payroll. Certainly gives them an incentive to hold down comp and headcount too!

    Not so good for the workers and taxpayers, but hey, we weren’t talking about them.

  55. frank says:

    I am trying to sell floor mats from my Maybach, do you know anyone that needs them?

  56. Sean says:

    They should hire these Canadian Border Guards to work at JFK and NEWARK.


  57. PGC says:

    #39 BC

    I think the Emerson CEO is just having a moan for the first time in years he is actually going to have to go out in the world and fight on a level field.

    Emerson have been trailing the likes of Mitsubushi for years even with Mits hampered by the yen carry. Now the dollar carry is in place and the home market is hit hard and they start complaining.

    This guy just wants the standard Trifecta of Labor controls, tax breaks and import tariffs.

    I always found it funny that they sold clock radios and televisions into Walmart. That doesn’t seem to be a good fit for either of them.

  58. chicagofinance says:

    19.Schumpeter says:
    November 12, 2009 at 7:56 am
    HE (13)- I have always been in love with Louise Yamada.

    strumpet: You know in her prime she could take out all the points of resistence. Even though she is 4’9″ or whatever…..

  59. chicagofinance says:

    pull the trigger before Turkey or wait until after MLK…otherwise you are the Grinch….

    29.d2b says:
    November 12, 2009 at 8:42 am
    Is it just me or does it seem like the layoff notices and risen in the last two weeks?

  60. imkeithhernandez says:

    pgc, yes it does sound like he’s going to have to go out in the world and fight on a level playing field… sounds like he’s going to do it w/o the american worker as well

  61. PGC says:

    #57 Get Balls,

    You will see the likes of Walmart all over that 8%. That is true trickle down economics working. They get away from the fact that more that 50% of their employees can’t afford their health polices. It benefits the tax payers as those employees will be coming off the low income state plans, Medicaid or the SL ER Healthcare plan.

  62. zieba says:

    Nice discretionary numbers being posted!

    Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, the most widely anticipated video game of all time, came out yesterday. The title moved 5 million units, grossing 310 million dollars ($310,000,000) in the first 24 hours. Not bad…


    Infinity Ward, the game development studio behind this release, was acquired by Activision (the publisher) in 2003.

    It’s tough to turn down steady paychecks and new office chairs for everybody when you’re 12 guys working out of a basement. Acquiring publisher swallows you up, you cap your upside and relinquish audit rights. Bummer.

  63. BC Bob says:

    PGC [61],

    It may be foolish to dismiss the implications.

    First Sox, then health care, then rising taxes. Capital flows to where it is treated the best, at least perceived that way. At the current time, capital is starting to flee this country. When these trends begin they go much further and longer that most can imagine.

  64. d2b says:

    This story will go away by Friday.

    BC Bob says:
    November 12, 2009 at 9:47 am
    Why be suspicious? Strictly pure talent at play.

    “Nov. 12 (Bloomberg) — Analysts say good timing alone doesn’t account for trading in bullish 3Com Corp. options yesterday.”

    “Volume in contracts to buy shares of the Marlborough, Massachusetts-based company surged to the highest level since September 2007 before Hewlett-Packard Co. said it would buy the maker of computer-networking equipment for $2.7 billion.”

  65. freedy says:

    If corzine gets the BAC job, stunning ,
    what a country

  66. BC Bob says:

    d2b [68],

    I agree. Actually it was never a story. What govt agency cares?

  67. PGC says:

    #64 imkeithhernandez

    He is already doing it and has been for years. They have big Chinese and South American operations. Time to pull the company reports and analyze.

  68. imkeithhernandez says:

    and based on current policies coming out of DC it looks like he’ll be accelerating that trend… as will the CEOs of most other US based (for the time being at least… i’m sure many of these US based co. w/chinese subsidiaries will eventually become chinese companies w/US subsidiaries) industrial conglomerates

  69. Barbara says:


    “and based on current policies coming out of DC it looks like he’ll be accelerating that trend… ”
    business has been moving overseas in a conga-line like steadiness for two decades. I agree with PGC here. a lot of moaning and hand wringing in an attempt to get at that trifecta. Bitch, please.

  70. imkeithhernandez says:

    so no desire to try and reverse that? i mean, besides taking over the company ala gm & chrysler

  71. frank says:

    Just bought a NJ home today. Take my lead and buy yourself a new home, before prices go up.

  72. still_looking says:

    Hey Ket,

    What do you think of this?
    Reports shenanigans in the oil market…



  73. still_looking says:

    75 Frank,

    Uh, where? I’m sure the board would love to send you a house warming gift…


  74. John says:

    I just bought ten, no money down liar loans with a fake SS number, just like the good old days.

    frank says:
    November 12, 2009 at 11:22 am
    Just bought a NJ home today. Take my lead and buy yourself a new home, before prices go up.

  75. BC Bob says:

    “Take my lead and buy yourself a new home”

    An airline pilot wrote that on this particular flight he had hammered his ship into the runway really hard. The airline had a policy, which required the first officer to stand at the door while the passengers exited, give a smile, and a ‘Thanks for flying XYZ airline.’ He said that in light of his bad landing, he had a hard time looking the passengers in the eye, thinking that someone would have a smart comment, but no one seemed annoyed.

    Finally everyone had gotten off except for one little old lady walking with a cane. She approached and asked, conspiratorially, ‘Sonny, mind if I ask you a question?’

    ‘Why no Ma’am, what is it?’

    ‘Did we land or were we shot down?’

  76. frank says:

    Old Bridge, NJ.

  77. frank says:

    I buy and sell those by the thousands, daily.

  78. Barbara says:


    so long as there are people in the world who will work for pennies to our dollar, ain’t nothing going to stop it except maybe massive import tariffs.

  79. still_looking says:

    80 frank,

    Uh, we need the address and the date of the housewarming party so we can all RSVP.


  80. imkeithhernandez says:

    hmmm.. so the manufacturing base is running for the exits and the paper pushing industries are never to return to their previous employment levels… looks like a 20% U3 # is going to be the ‘new normal’

  81. PGC says:

    #67 BC Bob

    Sox was a nescessary ev1l that had a net positive effect. It cleaned up the balance sheets, all assets are accounted for and the CEO will take a perp walk for a false signature.

    As for heath care, outside of the health insurance industry, how many CEO’s would welcome socialized health care with open arms to get that overhead off their books.

  82. PGC says:

    #72 imkeithhernandez

    Its already there. The same companies are importing product back in to compete in the marketplace with their domestic production.

  83. lisoosh says:

    imkeithhernandez says:
    November 12, 2009 at 11:18 am

    “so no desire to try and reverse that? i mean, besides taking over the company ala gm & chrysler”

    It’ll reverse when American salaries drop down to the level where it will be cost effective to manufacture here.

    Of course, by then we won’t be buying the stuff but making it for richer nations where the cost of manufacturing THERE won’t make it worthwhile.

    And the beat goes on…..

  84. imkeithhernandez says:

    it’s possible that having the 2nd highest corporate tax rates in the world isn’t helping

  85. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [65] DSA

    I wasn’t thinking about Wal-mart and the service sector, but would agree that the employees would likely be better off under the USG plan. Not so sure Walmart will if they are as miserly with coverage as everyone makes them out to be. What Wal-mart gets is certainty in terms of costs and labor problems.

    Probably not as rosy in MFG which typically has generous plans.

    I was also including in deleterious effects, the effect on employment and wage growth. The former will certainly hurt, the latter not so much depending on the industry norms.

  86. lisoosh says:

    #88 – As noted, employer provided health care is a massive expense hindering US companies competitiveness.

    Universal health would fix that, but supposedly it’s anti-capitalist.

    It would also encourage entrepreneurship and small businesses.

  87. imkeithhernandez says:

    all of these universal health coverage options rely on the funding to come from corporations large and small so i’m not sure how it would “fix that”

  88. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [67] bc

    “Capital flows to where it is treated the best, at least perceived that way. At the current time, capital is starting to flee this country.”

    As evidenced by the fact that the feds are acting to bar the gates???

    BTW, seems that the feds are wising up to one strategy I suggested, which is to use a treaty country as a conduit. Feds are looking to get full tracing through treaty countries to insure that treaty benefits aren’t being used to shelter money from taxation (with the theory being that $$$ flowing to another country is for legit purposes if the other country has equally high taxes).

    Problem with this theory is that the US taxation is higher than with nearly every treaty country, so virtually any cross-border transaction can be attacked as tax-motivated.

  89. lisoosh says:

    Good universal health options are funded by the actual people getting the health services. Plenty of countries have interesting/good/effective programs in place for us to learn from and copy.

    Unfortunately politics has intervened.

  90. PGC says:

    #84 imkeithhernandez

    Your starting to get it. The big difference is that they headed to the exits a long time ago. Now if the private sector is not going to be able to create the jobs to sustain the country, the gvmt has to step up and the workforce has to downsize.

    The Gvmt will have to put a welfare structure to maintain the social fabric and stop a melt down.

    Think Grapes of Wrath with Soup kitchens, who picks the melons now and who will pick them in future.

  91. NJGator says:

    Re Corzine/BAC – Time to short BAC?

  92. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [90, 91] lisoosh, mike

    As I explained above, it is not anti-capitalist since the true capitalists may net benefit.

    Businesses may or may not benefit, depending on their industry and comp. In the end, it comes down to numbers—where I work, 8% of the average comp is a pretty high number, and is likely higher than the cost we pay for benefits. So my employer would not opt for this. By contrast, a company with predominantly lower wage earners that have a larger percentage of the staff in the plan, they may well benefit by booting everyone since their health costs may be equal to 12% of comp and they trade that for 8%.

    Now, another thing employers can do if there is no tangible benefit to dumping the plan (rough equivalence) is to keep the plan and transfer more cost to the employee. Can’t do that with the USG. So, in some limited situations, an employer can make out by keeping the plan and not going to USG. There are a host of factors that govern this, but that is what number crunching and tax planning is all about.

  93. Schumpeter says:

    frank (80)-

    Your Maybach must seem extremely out of place in a middlebrow burb like Old Bridge.

  94. imkeithhernandez says:

    doesn’t sound like there’s going to be too much of a private sector left to fund all that lovely government you want… the republic of texas is sounding better every day

  95. Schumpeter says:

    frank (81)-

    Bitch, nobody cares about your fantasy life. Get your ass back to A&F and count that traffic.

  96. PGC says:

    #91 imkeithhernandez

    Actually, most of the cost would come from the employee side through income tax.

  97. Your Maybach must seem extremely out of place in a middlebrow burb like Old Bridge.

    He’s got one of those #3 stickers with the angel wings on the back window, fits right in.

  98. PGC says:

    #92 Got Balls,

    I think all the dual taxation agreements are written that you pay US tax or higher, so the US will always get full freight. The hard part was getting disclosure of the foreign holdings. The administration is going after PFICs in a big way. They have the likes of UBS by the ba11s and are squeezing. I suspect they got the Swiss gvmt to blink by threatening to take the Swiss banks through the courts.

  99. Outofstater says:

    #101 May he rest in peace .

  100. Outofstater says:


  101. Kettle1 says:

    Sl 76

    huge manipulation in energy markets in everything from stated recovery rates to recoverable reserves to the futures markets.

    In my opinion there is no question of peak/energy but at this point finance is the dominan factor in energy markets. The energy markets are not currently driven by fundamenals.

    From what I have seen the run up to 150 was almost certainly a raid by a few Investment banks.

    Just for fun, look into europes natural gas outlook. Got heat?

  102. 3b says:

    #75 frank: Why are they going up Frank, Why? Just one good reason Frank why? Why are they going up? Enlighten us Frank so that we too can avail ourselves of this wonderful opportunity before prices go up.

  103. still_looking says:

    New trend?

    Alabama bank halts mortgage lending


    BIRMINGHAM, Ala. – The second-largest thrift in Alabama is suspending mortgage lending amid hefty third-quarter losses as real-estate values moved lower and foreclosure rates turned higher.

    Officials with New South Federal Savings Bank, which operates offices in nine states, say the company had a net loss of $41 million for the quarter.


  104. still_looking says:

    tosh, 107

    They have a cure for that, don’tcha know?

    here: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fdic-decision-due-out-soon


  105. lisoosh says:

    For the NYphiles:

    Fascinating study of the history of some New York buildings from tax photos. Some nice pictures of rough neighbourhoods a la John stories.


  106. lostinny says:

    109 SL

    I wish there was a cure for the mutant that lives downstairs.

  107. lostinny says:

    110 Lisoosh
    That first set of pics of the Alice Austin House? Shore Acres isn’t a rough neighborhood.

  108. jamil says:

    29 d2b:
    “Is it just me or does it seem like the layoff notices and risen in the last two weeks?”

    Stimulus finally kicking in.

  109. chicagofinance says:

    The end is nigh!!!!!!!!!!!

    95.NJGator says:
    November 12, 2009 at 12:19 pm
    Re Corzine/BAC – Time to short BAC?


  110. still_looking says:

    lost 111


    (or maybe it’s the smell wafting over from Old Bridge)


  111. lisoosh says:

    lost -there are lots of other pictures. Some reminded me of the reminiscing here about ’70, ’80’s NY from some of our cubicle warriors.

  112. homeboken says:

    Hearing rumors that the FHA may up the deposit requirement. Any info? Seems odd that they would make a move that would be considered rational at this point.

  113. jamil says:

    “It’ll reverse when American salaries drop down to the level where it will be cost effective to manufacture here.”

    Just get rid of trial lawyers and unions and things would be fine. Even today, TX, SC and GA can manufacture cars without tax-payer sponsorship.

  114. ByeByeAmerica says:

    #98 Maybe we can move to the same neighborhood. Personally, I want Ocean and Monmouth Counties to secede from the state of NJ. We simply dont need those losers. Let me repeat they are losers. Real men dont need the government or employers.

  115. NJGator says:

    Anyone remember when these folks wanted to take over South Carolina? Maybe Jamil is one of them.

    I remember their website used to be a lot more fun.

    Chr*stianExodus.org was founded in November of 2003 in response to the moral degeneration of American culture, and the rampant corruption among the powers that be. The initial goal was to move thousands of Chr*stian constitutionalists to South Carolina to accelerate the return to self-government based upon Chr*stian principles at the local and State level. This project continues to this day, with the ultimate goal of forming an independent Chr*stian nation that will survive after the decline and fall of the financially and morally bankrupt American empire. We have learned, however; that the chains of our slavery and dependence upon godless government have more of a hold on us than can be broken by simply moving to another State.

    As many like-minded Chr*stian activists pursue independent Chr*stian living without relocating, the scope has expanded to promote “personal secession” though many and various tracks, wherever they can be implemented. The long process of disentanglement from idolatrous dependencies includes such practices of moving towards a home-centered economy, with intentional community, home-schooling, home-gardening, house churches, health-cost sharing, private exchange, unlicenced ministry, and any other way in which we might live free and godly lives in Chr*st Jes*s, without prostrating ourselves to eat from the hand of the imperial magistrate.


    Planned Resettlement
    In order to accelerate the return to self-government based upon B*blical principles, Chr*stian Exodus recommends planned resettlement to areas more amiable towards the practices of independent Chr*stian living. With fellow believers of like mind nearby, support structures can be provided to encourage cooperation and community living.
    South Carolina ( 1 Article )
    The primary recommended area of resettlement is the State of South Carolina, especially the Upcountry outside of Greenville. Chr*stian Exodus members who have moved to the area appreciate the culture, climate, and lower cost of living.

    Idaho ( 1 Article )
    Idaho has earned a reputation as a place where one can still breathe free, and relatively inexpensively, in a beautiful natural environment. Idaho is perhaps the most home-school friendly place in America. No government notification is required, nor any reporting of curriculum, nor progress in schooling.
    Latin America ( 1 Article )

    Anticipating severe economic hardships and a loss of civil liberties in the United States, some Chr*stian Exodus members are considering moving to Latin America. One country being investigated is Panama. It has a very pleasant climate, abundant natural beauty, economic opportunity, personal privacy, low taxation, rich food sources, and many other advantages.

  116. ByeByeAmerica says:

    Regarding Universal Healthcare. If it passes it will be just like Hillary care. In other words HMO’s vs PPO’s. A lot signed up for the capitation HMO’s at first then realized that the care was horrible. They then flocked to PPO’s which is where we stand now. Same thing will happen with this government program only the seniors will get killed off and the country will be bankrupt. Free market always wins.

  117. lostinny says:

    116 Lisoosh

    “cubicle warriors”


  118. Painhrtz says:

    Gator the problem is you have to live with a bunch of Christians in south Carolina. The only thing worse would be Mississippi.

    Why don’t they just become Amish, oh thats right Jesus would have wanted them to have TVs IPODs and cell phones to hear the latest ba$tardized dribble from the bible spewed by their famous preacher of choice. I find most evangelical, rightoeus christians to be neither evangelical or rightoeus. More oftern they are Hypocrites who got the message wrong.

    Wait a minute if we can get the radical muslims to go to North Carolina we enjoy the fireworks from the comfort of the northeast. it would be like having our own little middle eastern conflict in our backyard. Much fun.

  119. Qwerty says:

    RE: “FDIC Decision Due Out Soon”

    Will the $250K FDIC insurance on deposit accounts still expire next month?

  120. confused in NJ says:

    ACORN sues Congress for cutting off its funding


    In another nutty move, ACORN has sued the feds for cutting off funding in the wake of a video-sting scandal.

    ACORN claims the government was wrong to pass judgment “without an investigation” in September and has asked a federal judge in Brooklyn to immediately reinstate the funding to its housing program.

    The community-activist group has been under scrutiny since hidden cameras captured its counselors advising a phony pimp and call girl on how to buy a home while evading law enforcement detection.

    The suit, filed by the Center for Constitutional Rights, claims poor people will suffer due to the lack of funding.

    ACORN, which is based in Fort Greene, Brooklyn, has received approximately $53 million in federal aid since 1994.

  121. Shore Guy says:

    Let us parse the following and ask ourselves what logical follow-up question seems to hve eluded the press:

    “New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine, the former co-chairman of Goldman Sachs Group Inc., said he hasnt discussed becoming chief executive officer at Bank of America Corp. with the Charlotte, North Carolina-based lender.
    I can confirm I have not spoken with them, Corzine said today in an interview outside the Sacred Heart Basilica in Newark.”

    Okay, he has not talked with them. Fine. I will take him at his very specific word; however, this does not mean he is not engaged in negotiations with them via a representative. The logical follow up? “Governor, have any of your representatives or agents been been in contact with BoA concerning the top job?”

    Having watched the “cream of the crop” at the White House miss the obvious follow up, it does not surprise me that a reporter covering a lame duck would do so. Still, it reflectd badly on the press.

  122. yikes says:

    jamil says:
    November 11, 2009 at 4:46 pm
    By all accounts, something resembling current Iraq (not secular, but not hard-line islamic either) seems to be working ok – except Iraqis are worried that the current White House resident (who has been sending love letters to Iranian mullahs and who terminated funding for Iranian human rights groups) is going to pull out too soon.

    by what accounts?
    you are drunk. an embarrassment.

    Iraq is a massive unmitigated disaster. a failure of epic proportions.

    you have no clue what you’re talking about (again).

  123. Painhrtz says:

    Not that I’m a constitutional lawyer or anything but how is cutting off funding to an organization unconstitutional? Why is this being supported by the Center for Constitutional Rights. Oh thats right the poor people will suffer. Well I suffer every time I look at how much money is going out the window to the feds in my paycheck, and I haven’t sued. Don’t these people have an ambulance to chase!

  124. Jill says:

    Does anyone know what recourse a buyer has when the inspection is a disaster but the agent did not put an inspection contingency in the contract? Seller is unwilling to let buyer back out. Does buyer have to take the house? Can buyer back out with just sacrifice of earnest money? This is in NJ.

  125. Here 4 Now says:

    [129] I would be pointing to the buyer’s attorney, not the real estate agent. What attorney would let the contract go through attorney review without an inspection contingency clause, unless it was specificaly agreed to by the buyer?

  126. lisoosh says:

    Jill – I have no answer for you but kicking the agent (sorry, REALTOR (TM)) up and down the highway might make the unfortunate buyer feel a little better. Or at least get some aggression out.

  127. 3b says:

    #117 to 4%?

  128. ruggles says:

    129 – aren’t inspections on the standard contract? did the buyer, agent and attorney cross them out?

    perhaps faxing the inspection report (if its really bad) to the underwriters might help nix the mortgage approval or praying it doesnt appraise.

  129. Jill says:

    The buyer’s attorney says there is nothing he can do and buyer has to take the house. There may be repairs that the current owner did that were not up to code. Would that be enough? I will pass on the advice about faxing the inspection report to the underwriters. I think perhaps getting the loan approval rescinded might be the best bet.

  130. John says:

    LANDRYS RESTAURANTS INC 14.00000% 08/15/2011 SR NT
    CUSIP 51508LAF0
    Price (Ask) 101.000

    That is what I call a MAN sized coupon.

  131. grim says:


    NJAR standard contract has both inspection contingencies as well as conditions requiring the seller to obtain COs and correct violations.

    Why were these stricken from the contract?

  132. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [102] pgc

    While I don’t do international, I don’t think that is right with respect to non-ECI. ECI is taxed here so that is never a concern treaty-wise in the US. But non-ECI, such as dividends and interest are fully or partially exempt, and there are also limits on withholding that can be quite low.

    We generally don’t have treaties with tax havens, so there is usually no concern about arbitraging tax jurisdictions w/r/t treaty benefits. That is why legit taxpayers from treaty countries are not avoiding tax.

    Further, if we were collecting full freight, there would be no need for limitation on benefit articles in the treaties to prevent what IRS is now cracking down on.

    Agree with respect to the rest of the post re: enforcement. Like you have never seen.

  133. ruggles says:

    134 – this sounds really bizarre and aside from the inspection being standard, usually, or often, in atty review, the buyers’ atty will add something about the seller representing that all permits were obtained.

    did they write this thing up on a napkin without an attorney?

  134. grim says:

    The only case I can imagine is if the buyer inspections were late, or if the buyer did not notify the seller within the alloted time period.

    Even so, the CO and violations cure contingencies would still hold.

  135. grim says:

    138 – if they did, sue the agent for practicing law without a license.

  136. jamil says:

    127 yikes.

    Ah, I forgot how well things were in Iraq under Saddam, who under no circumstances was planning WMDs, gassing people and handing out money and training for Palestinian terrorists.

  137. danzud says:

    #114 Surely, you wouldn’t expect Corzine to come in without a big option package. I’m sure he can find a way to whore that bank to a ridiculously priced level before the air comes out of whatever crooked maneuvers he uses there so no I wouldn’t short it at first but ride it up and then short it.

  138. jamil says:

    102 pgc: “I think all the dual taxation agreements are written that you pay US tax or higher, so the US will always get full freight.”

    This is not true. From the tax-payer’s point of view it may be true, ie it is “US tax or higher for taxman” but US won’t get any tax revenue if the treaty country takes it part.

  139. NJGator says:

    Pain 123 – I think Alabama would be pretty bad too. Don’t write them off.

  140. 3b says:

    #142 I wonder if BAC will let him stay up here if he is in fact chosen and accepts? I cannot see him relocating to NC.

  141. jamil says:

    Total mystery here.
    The era of State Media..

    New York Times:
    “It is unclear what might have motivated Major Hasan, who is suspected of killing 13 people.”

    Telegraph (UK):
    “Major Nidal Malik Hasan worshipped at a mosque led by a radical imam said to be a “spiritual adviser” to three of the hijackers who attacked America on Sept 11, 2001.”

    Fox News:
    “The Army psychiatrist suspected of killing 13 people in a shooting rampage at Fort Hood had “more unexplained connections to people being tracked by the FBI” than just a radical Muslim imam, investigators have found”

  142. John says:

    I don’t even know why NJ had an election at all, John Corzine and Ken Lewis should have just switched places. It takes a crook to know where the bodies are perfect.

    danzud says:
    November 12, 2009 at 3:10 pm
    #114 Surely, you wouldn’t expect Corzine to come in without a big option package. I’m sure he can find a way to whore that bank to a ridiculously priced level before the air comes out of whatever crooked maneuvers he uses there so no I wouldn’t short it at first but ride it up and then short it.

  143. John says:

    “As the economic environment normalizes, and with Citi now one of the best-capitalized financial institutions in the world with a deliberately liquid and flexible balance sheet, certain temporary programs have served their intended purpose and can be safely allowed to expire,” Samuelson said. He declined to say how much the New York-based bank will save in fees.

    Can I vomit now? Nice press release citi why you are canceling your excess FDIC insurance

  144. Painhrtz says:

    Gator, pretty much the whole deep south with the exception of a few enlightened enclaves. Although, they tend to be riddled with high crime rates and taxes just like the NE.

  145. lisoosh says:

    Pretty emotional for you John.

  146. lisoosh says:

    What does it mean when instead of Nigerian inheritance spam I’m getting “Buy Gold” and “Work from Home” spam?

  147. NJGator says:

    Pain – A few years ago I caught up with my closeted gay ex-boyfriend from college (doesn’t every girl have one?) and found that he had finally come out, was living in Birmingham, AL and had converted his boyfriend to Catholicism and they were signing in the church choir. He wrote to me that he longed to live in a cosmopolitan, open-minded place like Atlanta. Sigh…

  148. ByeByeAmerica says:

    The looting continues.

    I would describe this forum has 50% awake.

    Now to wake up the fools lining up for Swine flu shots.

  149. Qwerty says:

    RE: $250K FDIC deposit insurance

    This rolls back to $100K in 2013, not next month. The $250K limit should be made permanent, however.

    “The standard insurance amount currently is $250,000 per depositor. The $250,000 limit is permanent for certain retirement accounts, which includes IRAs. The $250,000 limit is temporary for all other deposit accounts through December 31, 2013. On January 1, 2014, the standard insurance amount will return to $100,000 per depositor for all account categories except certain retirement accounts, which will remain at $250,000 per depositor.”


  150. d2b says:

    John (148)?

    Are there 2 John’s here?

  151. John says:

    Nope, I am just amazed that Citi can say they of the best-capitalized financial institutions in the world when they were nearly bankrupt on March 9, 2009.

  152. Painhrtz says:

    Gator – Oh my gay and living Birmingham, my as well be Berlin 1939. Yes every girl has one, my wife included. They tend to be the sensitive listening type in college while the rest of us boys are too consumed with downing alcohol and conquering sorority girls.

    We have a gay engineer friend living in Hunstville who longs to come home to NY. Even though he states he has turned into quite the adrenalin junkie because he never knows if he is going to get bashed when he goes out to bars.

  153. John says:

    is your wife a fag-hag?

  154. John says:

    Book value as a barometer of a stock’s value has gotten many investors in trouble of the last couple of years, especially in the financial sector. Examples include Washington Mutual, AIG, Ambac Financial, Indymac, PMI, CIT, and many many others, and well as C itself, whose book value was over $24 in 2006. However, if you ascribe to the belief that the worst of the mortgage crisis is behind us, and that the economy is starting to improve, C provides tremendous upside potential for the value investor. C has traded historically an a price to book of better than 2. A return to just book value, would provide an almost 200% return, making C a tremendous value.

  155. chicagofinance says:

    The brand manager for Homel Foods has done a great job of building your interest in brand extensions?

    lisoosh says:
    November 12, 2009 at 3:40 pm
    What does it mean when instead of Nigerian inheritance spam I’m getting “Buy Gold” and “Work from Home” spam?

  156. Essex says:

    Man this place is getting overrun with mouth breathers.

  157. sas says:

    “Keep saying the same thing long enough, and you are bound be right I guess”

    yup, like i always say:

    a broken clock is right twice a day.


  158. sas says:

    “Man this place is getting overrun with mouth breathers”



  159. sas says:

    “fools lining up for Swine flu shots”

    ain’t no way I’m taken any shot.
    u think i want SV40 cancer virus…

    any these knuckleheads waiting in a long line, in am enclosed hallway?

    if you ask me, don’t you want to avoid crowded areas like that if you are afraid of flu? all those saps waiting in line, what if someone starts to cough in line and spread it while you wait for the shot?


  160. Essex says:

    SAS….ya big pussy. Get a shot. I got mine…..yo.

  161. Essex says:

    you live in Jersey SAS…you probably get more cancer exposure from walking around barefoot here…..

  162. ByeByeAmerica says:


    research whats going on with the flu in the Ukraine.

    In a north NJ town recently I witnessed a line around the block for the swine flu vaccine. What this demonstrates is a complete lack of logic for the masses of America. Dangerous to say the least but hey look who paid half a mil for a POS cape just a year or 2 ago.

    Start thinking for yourselves people you are being scammed.

  163. Barbara says:

    Life: Its Terminal!

  164. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [162] essex

    speak for yerself

    Now come over here soze i can breath some swine flu on youze.

  165. Essex says:

    Mouth breathers…..they breathe…thru their moufs!

  166. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [168] barbara

    Life–no one gets out alive.

  167. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [171] essex

    That would be me (damn sinus infection)

  168. Essex says:

    WASHINGTON — More than 22 million Americans have become ill from the H1N1 influenza virus and nearly 4,000 have died, according to new estimates released Thursday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    The new figures come amid a continued vaccine shortage. As of Thursday, the CDC said, 41.6 million doses are available to states, an increase of about 3.5 million doses as of last Friday. Health officials had expected eight million doses would be released this week after seeing about 10 million doses released in each of the previous two weeks.

  169. theo says:

    sister-in-law with bab twins down with h1n1 since saturday… high fever finally broke today… her mom came and snatched those babies up right away

  170. Essex says:

    I uh…will take a chance on the vaccine…seeing as though these types of shots have been helpful. Never had polio, for example. Never want it either.

  171. Barbara says:

    its a nice little bubble to be in, to see yourself as one of the plugged in few, until you are terribly wrong about something important and/or dangerous. A conspiracy around every corner, the experts are idiots, conventional knowledge always wrong. Its cute on the internets.

  172. Essex says:

    Yep….Disclosure….Big Pharma….been very, very good to me…(my family)

  173. #169 – Thanks for that SG.

  174. SG says:

    Am myself down with Flu like symptoms. Sore throat, cold, fever and chills. Hoping for best.

  175. All Hype says:


    Did you write this comment about that beauty queen on NJ.Com?

    She isn’t too bright but I want to comment on her physical appearance. She is so hot. Everything about her and the shape of her sweater is a joy to the eye. I say more stories and photographs of Prejean or whatever her name is? She has two wonderful melons.

    Posted on Carrie Prejean: Larry King ‘inappropriate,’ stops interview on November 12, 2009, 3:07PM

  176. d2b says:

    I believe that most schools in Romania/Moldova/Ukrane have been closed for a week because of swine.

  177. d2b says:

    Chi- from yesterday.
    The insurance guy seemed to be making a comment on the whole life policies in general not who was buying them. That being said, it would not surprise me if 90% of the people that owned those policies shouldn’t.

  178. lisoosh says:

    “a broken clock is right twice a day.”

    Not if it’s a 24 hour digital.

  179. lisoosh says:

    #183 – Then the kids shouldn’t be taking their livestock to school with them.

  180. NJGator says:

    I am not embarassed to say that Lil Gator and I have already gotten our H1N1 and seasonal flu vaccinations. I am a steroid dependent asthmatic. I am not messing around with that stuff.

  181. Barbara says:

    Gator, I keep calling the pediatrician but still no vaccine.

  182. Kettle1 says:

    Had swine flu about a month ago while in Texas. NASTY EXPERIENCE, and can see how it would be dangerous for asthmatics.

  183. NJGator says:

    Barbara – Have you seen this site? If you’re willing to drive a bit, maybe one of these places will work for you:


    Lil Gator got his from his pediatrician – but many of his friends have been unable to do so. I was unable to get mine from my doctor and had to drive to Florham Park when I heard a local urgent care center had gotten a supply.

  184. confused in NJ says:

    How effective is the flu shot?
    In studies of the seasonal flu shot, when the “match” between vaccine viruses and circulating viruses is close, the vaccine has been shown to prevent influenza in about 70%-90% of healthy persons younger than age 65 years. Among elderly persons living outside chronic-care facilities (such as nursing homes) and those persons with long-term (chronic) medical conditions (such as asthma, diabetes, or heart disease), the flu shot has been shown to be between 30% and 70% effective in preventing hospitalization for pneumonia and influenza. Among elderly nursing home residents, the flu shot has been shown to be most effective in preventing severe illness, secondary complications, and deaths related to the flu. In this population, the shot has been shown to be between 50% and 60% effective in preventing hospitalization or pneumonia and 80% effective in preventing death from the flu.

  185. Barbara says:

    thanks Gator,
    I may try an A&P in Holmdel.

  186. Sean says:

    I went and got the H1N1 Nasal Mist vaccine last week. FYI it does not contain thimerosal or any other preservative.

    I haven’t died yet and my infant son did not get infected from me either, or his mother via breast milk. If anything he now has the antibodies.

    My wife had the Flu shot as I did I six weeks ago as well.

    We are both still here, so it wasn’t so bad.

    As far as SaS claim, I was under the impression it was the polio vaccine that had the SV40 in it.

  187. BC Bob says:

    kettle [189],

    I thought you were slacking, no new charts lately. Glad you’re better.

  188. morpheus says:

    I always get my flu and pneumonia shots. Nothing like being hospitalized with an oxygen tube up your nose to really appreciate how nasty pneumonia is. I also hear that the flu can lead to pneumonia.

    On a lighter note, finally scored a chest freezer on craigslist that I will use to store 4 five gal kegs and use to make lager beer. FREE is one of the most beautiful words in the english language. Been looking for one of those chest freezers for at least a year.

  189. chicagofinance says:

    184.d2b says:
    November 12, 2009 at 6:38 pm
    Chi- from yesterday.
    The insurance guy seemed to be making a comment on the whole life policies in general not who was buying them. That being said, it would not surprise me if 90% of the people that owned those policies shouldn’t.

    d: No one goes out to buy whole life insurance unless they are funding a trust or performing some estate planning. Only insurance salesmen sell people whole life insurance….

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