Hole just got deeper

From Bloomberg:

New Jersey Taxes $250 Million Behind Christie Plan

New Jersey will get about $250 million less revenue than Governor Chris Christie projected for this fiscal year and next because of lagging retail sales taxes, according to a copy of a legislative analyst’s report provided by a person who received it before its release.

In the budget year ending June 30, New Jersey will collect $27.6 billion, about $82 million less than Christie projected March 16. The state will receive $28.1 billion, or about $168 million less than the governor anticipates in his $29.3 billion budget for next fiscal year, according to the forecast by David Rosen, legislative budget and finance officer.

“Reflecting the downbeat economic news, nearly all major state tax revenues have dropped, many to levels not seen in several years,” the report said. “Years of revenue growth have evaporated.”

From the Star Ledger:

N.J. revenue expected to be $250M less than projected, report says

Gov. Chris Christie’s grim budget forecast in March may not have been dark enough, with New Jersey revenue collections likely to come up $250 million short through June 2011, according to a nonpartisan report to be released Wednesday.

For the fiscal year starting July 1, OLS estimates revenue will be $167.7 million lower than the $28.3 billion Christie projected when he outlined his proposed $29.3 billion budget in March. Revenue for the fiscal year ending this June is projected at $27.6 billion, $81.7 million less than projected.

Treasurer Andrew Sidamon-Eristoff, who is scheduled to appear before the Assembly Budget Committee today, downplayed the importance of $167 million in a $29.3 billion budget and today said the administration will not update its estimates nor adjust its proposal.

“It’s real money, it’s significant, but it is a relatively small differential,” said Sidamon-Eristoff, who declined to answer more detailed questions before his appearance.

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

403 Responses to Hole just got deeper

  1. safeashouses says:

    250 million is a rounding error when you compare it to the Federal deficit and a blip when compared to NJ’s original budget deficit.

  2. Final Doom says:

    And people are worried about inflation? Har!

    Excuse me; it’s time for my breakfast of raw fish and cold rice.

  3. Final Doom says:

    This Summer, the US is going to give itself the equivalent of an economic speedball:

    1. Deflation

    2. In spite of deflation, gas @ $4

    3. Urban riots

    4. Expanding UE

  4. Mr hyde says:


    the food stamp numbers are good for seeing how many people are really going under in relative terms. Probably less rigged the unemployment

  5. Nomad says:

    Does NJ have any idea going forward what kind of hit on tax revenue it will take from residential property tax reductions and the same for commercial property? This scenario will / is playing out in the other 49 states.

    High net worth folks flocking to muni bonds (another potential house of cards)

    Doom, with all the $$ pumped into the economy, how can inflation not come back? My thinking is that it rears it’s ugly head later this year and ramps up quicker than estimated.

    I thought treasury prices in the secondary market have dropped a bit.

  6. Final Doom says:

    Your PPT at work, folks:

    “We just obtained confirmation that anyone who clears through Merrill Prime is getting a Hard To Borrow notification for the SPY once again. And so State Street and the BoNY guys come out guns blazing once again, to make sure it is impossible to short the market on today’s Fed day. What is it with the market and HTB lists in April? At least market neutral funds are having a field day as they are forced to unwind in droves.”


  7. Final Doom says:

    nomad (5)-

    Easy. Contracting credit (e.g., less willingness to lend; less demand from potential borrowers) means that the accelerant of fractional reserve lending cannot be ignited.

    Printing money alone means nothing. It isn’t being “jammed into the economy”, as you state; it is being stashed in banks as reserves against future losses and used to pay down existing debt (debt destruction).

    The narcotic always needs an addict and a delivery system. Right now, it’s just not happening.

    Got chopsticks?

  8. sas3 says:

    Nom and other law experts,

    Saw Maddow’s segment on ACORN yesterday and am curious… Can ACORN employees who were fired for no mistake of theirs sue Fox for slander? Class action? The collateral damage always seems to be small fish. It’s as painful as watching a bully hard-fouling and hurting a small kid on a soccer field — without the refs even bothering about it.


  9. renter says:


    Bank of Mom and Dad Shuts Amid White-Collar Struggle
    by Mary Pilon
    Tuesday, April 6, 2010

  10. Nomad says:

    I hate marcoeconomics, probably because I don’t understand it.

    So the banks are stashing the cash to cover residential and commercial mtg losses and other bad loans.

    Lots of distressed real estate funds in the works so perhaps once they start to buy we will see credit markets working again and a floor in prices.

    Gonna be a long hot summer I suspect. Wish I had one trade in my life where I could time the market, I would use it in 2010.

    Love asian food and chopsticks. Guess my choice will be white rice and maybe a side of salt.

  11. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “the food stamp numbers are good for seeing how many people are really going under in relative terms. Probably less rigged the unemployment”

    Hyde I am surprised they even release the numbers. They need to get some BLS guys over there to “make improvements” to the data collection.

  12. NJGator says:

    Nomad 5 – generally 0. Tax levies have caps, not tax rates. The tax rate is just jacked up to compensate for the overall lower valuation.

    Not everyone appeals, and in towns that have not revalued recently, assessments are still way below market. Many people will not think they need to or can appeal because their assessment is way below market. For those who do appeal, the town will have a 15% buffer over the average ratio to defend against appeals.

    It’s only the towns who have revalued at or near peak that are f’ed. And they will simply borrow to refund the money, raise the tax rate and repeat. Our town is on the third year running this scam.

  13. Confused in NJ says:

    10. Her husband continues working as a writer, but without her six-figure income, the family was forced to sell the home in November. The Hayes had a $650,000 mortgage and sold the house for $375,000. Their lender forgave the difference as part of the sale, Mrs. Hayes said. But the family still has loans outstanding for $50,000.

    I’ve never had anyone forgive anything for me. Paid the kids colleges 100%, with income & home equity loans. But then again I never bought anything I couldn’t afford, and always hedged. I guess being a child of Original Depression parents made one look at things differently, including never carry a mortgage greater then 2.5 x’s Gross Income..

  14. Dissident HEHEHE says:


    Couldn’t agree more. Inflation will rear it’s head and it may even turn into hyper-inflation but you are talking at least a few years down the road.

    When the market takes another trip down, and it will at some point and it may even be orchestrated by the Fed to put a bid back under tresuries, gold and oil will go down too. They’ll drop not because they aren’t good investments long term but because all those funds deleveraging do so by selling things people want to buy and people will be buying oil/gold before they’ll be buying REIT shares.

  15. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Not Your Father’s America
    Although every generation has probably asked the same question, I still have to wonder: what happened to our country? How did we allow greed, corruption, and incompetence to destroy the American Dream for so many people? When did we reach the point where being an Average Joe (or Jane) is increasingly seen as a dead end rather than a good thing? I have to admit, the following excerpts, from My Budget 360 and Wall St. Cheat Sheet, made me feel pretty depressed:


  16. Final Doom says:

    “Millions of house “owners” have stopped paying their mortgages and are sitting around with $1,000 extra a month that no longer goes to their lender. So they’re spending it on other things, like vacations, tanning sessions or even, last resort probably,braces for their kids. Whatever, it’s tossing billion of bucks into the economy, but it’s all illusion and temporary. Which isn’t a good thing if you’re trying to figure out what’s happening in our economy.

    Don’t know if that’s a valid argument, but it’s interesting.”


  17. Yikes says:

    funny read on the disgraced newark mayor who was just released from jail:


    (note urine in the 2nd paragraph)

    It was certainly a rare political journey: the asphalt-blackened eight-hour return of Newark’s prodigal son. Along the way, Mr. James napped, read, shuffled some paperwork and waxed nostalgic. He expressed a desire to work with inmates, particularly young ones. “I’m doing the Lord’s work now,” he said. “I was incarcerated for a reason.”

    Officially, that reason was fraud. Mr. James, who ruled Newark for two decades, was convicted in 2008 on federal charges stemming from the sale of city properties to a former companion for a fraction of their cost. He was sentenced to 27 months, and will serve the balance of his sentence at the halfway house.

  18. Nomad says:

    #16 – because we as a nation are a bunch of weak, low self esteem weenies who think that having a car with the 3 point star on the hood will make us special and respected which is a bunch of bull S. The social status crap to me was much more apparent on the east coast when i arrive nearly a decade ago but over time, it crept into the industrial heartland (now the industrial dust bowl) too.

    As far as the financial problems, if people getting mortgages were REQUIRED to verify income and assets, a whole lot of this problem would have been avoided so while wall street has skin in this mess, the mtgs that were fed (no pun intended) to them were the fuel for a nice chunk of the current financial fire. Take away the easy mtg money over the last decade, and a whole lot of problems would have gone away. Houses as an ATM that fueld consumer consumption, the stigma of buying crap you don’t need would have never risen to the heights that it did (would have been less disposable income to blow on crap) and lots of toxic securities that were composed of mtg waste if they existed at all, would have been much smaller in size so as not to have had the adverse impact that they have had.

  19. Final Doom says:

    Yikes (18)-

    When did Sharpe James get a job working for Blankfein?

    “I’m doing the Lord’s work now,” he said.

  20. Final Doom says:

    nomad (19)-

    Agreed with you on the moral/spiritual bankruptcy that drove so many to consume without discretion. That’s been around for a long, long time.

    However, the virtual necessity of over-leverage to pay for basics such as shelter and the need to borrow and blow massive amounts of financial capital to acquire a modest level of intellectual capital (aka American higher education) is the real cause of middle-class erosion.

    The Elizabeth Warren movie on this topic is priceless, and completely on point.

  21. Final Doom says:

    Liz Warren “The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class”:


  22. Nomad says:

    Doom 21 – where do i go to watch elizabeth warren’s movie?

    valid points on cost of education but grew up in a state with plenty of quality public universities.

    loss of heavy manufacturing jobs has hurt a lot and without them, not sure america will ever be the same.

    some people hate the wages these types of jobs paid and in the end, there should have been some type of compromise between mgt, labor and unions to work it out so everyone took a bit of a hit but the idea of sending this type of work oversees and thinking america would remain the same from a service economy is not realistic. global events may bring some of it back to our shores, only time will tell.

  23. Dissident HEHEHE says:


    “Put more directly: At the heart of America’s problems is an economic policy which is designed to keep wages down but consumption up. That necessarily means more bubbles, more debt, more wealth and income inequality, and consequently more strife and social unrest when the gravy train ends. You cannot expect to hollow out a country’s manufacturing base, set up a bunch of McJobs to replace it, and still have consumers spend to support the economy. This is what we are now starting to realize.”


  24. Final Doom says:

    Anybody see Messi’s 4 goals vs Arsenal yesterday?

    Bayern vs Glazers today. Glazers going down hard.

    Bayern win bet pays off 4-1. This is my idea of a superb speculative investment.

  25. safeashouses says:

    Who is going to be first to get mayor James book?

    Also I didn’t see his political party mentioned by the NYT.

  26. NJGator says:

    Safe – Maybe we can have a NJRER Book Group GTG to discuss.

  27. NJGator says:

    …and mock.

  28. Painhrtz says:

    Gator we can use the Grapes of Wrath as an informational tome.

    Why did I click and read this morning thanks guys more depressed than usual

  29. freedy says:

    who do i call for my free health care?

    anybody have the 866 number?

    barry said its free

  30. njescapee says:

    30- freedy, take 1 aspirin / day till 2014. in the meantime you should pray for hope and change

  31. John says:

    Blame Cosmo and womens lib on the two income trap, it ain’t wall street.

    Remember, I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan and never ever let you forget you are a man.

    Well ladies, you told us in 70’s you can work all day, clean the house, take care of kids and still be a tiger in bed. Sounds like you volunteered for a 100 hour a week job.

  32. Mr Hyde says:

    Doom, HEHE

    I compared SNAP (food stamps) and U3. There is an interesting pattern. SNAP usage tends to peak and level off before unemployment peaks, a lead/lag effect where SNAP is the leading indicator. This trend exists back to 1970. They are currently claiming that unemployment is slowing and we are near the peak of unemployment. If the historical pattern for SNAP and U3 hold, then this is clearly not true. SNAP is still growing as of Dec 09. The official U3 numbers have gone flat but SNAP is still increasing. This violates the historical pattern and suggests the possibility that (real) unemployment is not quit done increasing. SNAP going flat would suggest we are near the peak growth of unemployment.

    I will post the charts latter tonight.

    The unemployment trend of 1980 may be a rough approximation of what we are about to see happening. In 1980 there was a false peak in unemployment followed by a rapid expansion of unemployment to the true peak in 1982. In this case, the SNAP data was still showing an increase at the same time the false peak occurred.

    unemployment chart:

  33. Mr Hyde says:


    I agree that the 2 income family was a faustian bargain. It takes a lot to run a household and raise kids. Doing so on top of a fulltime job runs you into the ground

  34. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket 33 the UNP numbers are baked. Have to look good going into Nov , then it will hit the fan again.

  35. Mr Hyde says:


    I am well aware how baked they are. My point was that the SNAP/U3 pattern may be a useful tool in gaging the real unemployment trend and where we may be in the current cycle.

    If it is a generally useful trend, then it suggests we are in a lull before the next wave of unemployment spikes.

  36. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket we may not be in a lull at all just getting cooked data & the snap/u3 indicator is probably right about continuing UPN increases. It could just as well be increasing right now we just don’t get the correct numbers.

  37. Mr Hyde says:

    Mike 37


  38. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket by the way great job looking into this correlation, looking forward to the charts later.

  39. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [9] sas3

    I don’t see how they have any such claim.


    That’s why the Bank of Mom & Dad will be incorporated offshore, and may take the form of a charity.

  40. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    “Anybody see Messi’s 4 goals vs Arsenal yesterday?”

    Clot, This animal is in a zone where nobody can come near him – 2 or sometimes 3 steps ahead of the nearest defender on each play. How the hell can he do that at that level?

    Somehow he finds the upper side netting from 20 yards out with almost zero windup? wtf is that?

    The only thing i can think to explain his superhuman performance is a new generation of doping that makes maradonna seem clean and sober by comparison.

  41. JJ says:

    Question of the day?

    I have a female unmarried friend who is going to be pushing 40 in around 3 years. She told me if by then if there is no man in her life she would start looking for “donations” with no commitment so she can have a kid.

    I said sure why not. She is pretty and it is a long shot in future anyhow.

    Now I am thinking is she and me on same page? I am thinking we have a few nice lunches over drinks and back to her place for some afternoon delight. Is she thinking sometype of cold doctors office with artificial insementation. Or even worse she mixes up a few candidates together so know one knows who the dad is? That would be creepy, sounds like all downside and no upside.

    What would you think she means? If I was a girl I would not waste my time at a doctor when one or two nights of good times could get the job done for free.

  42. jamil says:

    Shore Guy:

    Since you are an expert on President’s wartime constitutional authority (at least as interpreted by Obamaweek), I’m curious what you think of US President ordering the military to murder a US citizen (who is not “proven threat”, according to the definitions publicly advocated by your comrade Mr Eric Holder)?

    Sounds great, doesn’t it? US President can murder US citizens without those nasty Miranda rights, fair trials or defense attorneys. Thank god we don’t people like Yoo or Bush around anymore. Right?

    Let me guess: This is perfectly fine (if carried out by a liberal President) but the most horrible criminal act, if carried out by non-liberal President (or suggested by some non-liberal DOJ attorney). Right?


  43. NJGator says:

    Overtaxed homeowners start to fight back
    Millions paying property taxes based on value of home before bubble burst

    A success story
    Stuart Sendell, a retired mortgage banker living in Morristown, N.J., was ultimately successful but said the process took 14 months to complete.

    After reading a report that found the average assessed value of real estate in his town had increased by 5 percent, Sendell paid a visit to his local assessor’s office to examine the calculations.

    “Everyone knew housing values were dropping like a brick,” he said, remembering that he thought the report “couldn’t be right.”

    John Makely / msnbc.com
    Stuart Sendell’s home was estimated by the township to be worth $1.6 million, but his appraiser concluded his home was worth only $970,000. After appealing his property assessment, he accepted a 25 percent reduction after a lawyer for the township asked to strike a deal.

    Sendell was onto something. He found that the local government included in its calculation a sample of lower-priced homes that dropped in price less severely than his house, which the office estimated was worth $1.6 million. He decided to appeal after hiring an appraiser who concluded his home was only worth $970,000.

    Two months before his court date the lawyer for the township asked to strike a deal. Since New Jersey law gives assessors a 15 percent margin of error for assessments, Sendell accepted a 25 percent reduction, which showed up in his taxes. He was awarded a $5,400 tax refund — a savings he now banks each year.

    Sendell’s experience isn’t unique. “There has been a ramp-up in requests that began well over a year ago,” said Peter Sepp, vice president for policy and communications at the NTU. “People are getting sticker shock over assessments that have yet to be adjusted to the realities of the depressed real estate market.”


  44. Jim says:

    4. Mr hyde says:
    April 7, 2010 at 6:49 am

    the food stamp numbers are good for seeing how many people are really going under in relative terms. Probably less rigged the unemployment

    Any idea what the income level is for going on food stamps? Maybe I qualify. I would consider a ‘mini-bailout’.

  45. NJGator says:

    Cabbage Patch magnate buys Madoff’s pad
    Home of jailed swindler was on market for $8.9 million

    NEW YORK – The businessman behind Cabbage Patch dolls and his wife have snatched up Bernard Madoff’s Upper East Side penthouse.

    Patsy Kahn says her husband, Al, “was worried about the karma.” But she fell in love with the view of the Manhattan skyline from the 64th Street penthouse.


  46. RU says:

    #32 I think it’s that people lost perspective of what is important to raise a child. Parental involvement is irreplaceable. Too many parents want to provide their kids with material goods instead of just being their parent. A lot of that may be fueled by guilt for not being around more often. Too many kids have the latest and greatest tech gadgets, designer clothes and other expensive material goods. If the kid had a part-time job and used their money to buy it then fine but 95% of the time that isn’t the case. Most kids aren’t even given allowances anymore. Instead the parents are like an ATM. How do you teach a child to be responsible with money that way? Sports is another problem. You have parents thinking that little Johnny or Jenny is the next Peyton Manning or Serena Williams so all their time is spent on camps, travelling teams, private instructors etc. What if some of that time and energy was spent on educating your child instead? Instead of aiming for that athletic scholarship how about the academic scholarship instead? I love sports and played three sports every year while growing up but it is an activity. It did teach me a lot about leadership, pushing oneself to their limits and the team concept but the chances of being able to make a living off of playing sports are very slim.

    Sorry for my rant. I’m a new parent and am very worried about the future of my child in this environment. I see greed just killing this country. Greed was the cause of the downfall of many empires before us. I just hope I’m long gone before that happens.

  47. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    Thanks Ket, I look forward to the info

  48. Mr Hyde says:

    JJ 42,

    You would have to be stupid to “donate” to that little project. Multiple court rulings have decided that you are legally responsible for supporting the child even if it was a one time donation in a shot glass.

    Legally the kid can come after you for child support even if the mother doesnt.

  49. Mr Hyde says:


    Food stamps, NJ program

  50. hughesrep says:


    “Geinther to Meet China’s Wang on Thursday.”

    Cue John.

  51. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Jim 45 just type in food stamps nj & go on site for nj food stamp program there are charts by family size.

  52. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [42] JJ

    Any man who understands the law will run, not walk, from her. He will be on the hook for the child, even if she says otherwise.

    She can sign the most ironclad release known to man, but can still hit him up for child support decades later. That is because the release doesn’t bind a court in equity; they can disregard it. Or the child can sue, and guess what folks, he is on the hook.

    And lets not forget buyer’s remorse. What if said child has a birth defect, or has Downs? Think mommy won’t feel somewhat aggreived?

    Hey, if she’s cute, I’d give her the roll in the hay to help her out, but I wouldn’t give out fact one to help her track me down someday. Callous? Sure, but I know the law.

  53. NJGator says:

    Pain 29 – My actual reading group is reading a self-help memoir called “The Happiness Project”. The great thing about a reading group is that it exposes you to things you would not have chosen to read yourself. The flip side of that is that sometimes there are very good reasons why you would not have picked up these books.

    Last week at Lil Gator’s ice skating lesson, I had the book with me to read. A new-agey type mom saw it and gushed over the book. She had never heard of it, but apparently she has “studied happiness” for 20 years, and is now certified to be a “happiness mentor” for others.

    As a penance to the person who chose this book, I have invited new-age mom to join us for the evening.

  54. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [49] hyde

    Wow. Quicker to the legal argument than me. I’m impressed.

  55. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom 54

    good luck hiding nowadays! It would be significantly cheaper and probably more enjoyable to hire a $1,000/hr prostitute for the evening and have a wild night out on the town

  56. Mr Hyde says:


    Dont forget the blow and the stretch limo

  57. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket 57/8 sound reasoning, hookers & blow are the way to go. Where the hell is John. The lead ins for a John story are abound today.

  58. Final Doom says:

    veto (41)-

    Nah. Just blazing speed and anticipation.

    Also, he has a bizarre ability to “float” when there’s a 50-50 ball or he loses possession onto a defender’s foot. It’s like he can wait for the ball to show just a tad, then run or shoot through it before anyone else can react. Whatever it is, it’s sick.

    I’m old enough to have seen Pele and Maradona a lot. I still rate Pele #1, as his physical strength and leverage were off the charts, but for me, Messi is far better than Maradona…esp. if you’re comparing them both at the age of 22. Also, Maradona could be beaten up and fouled into being ineffective. Messi can take a beating and still score and be a pest.

  59. Final Doom says:

    RU (47)-

    I have a daughter in the college sports recruitment process now. She is a good, not great student. She does, however, have friends who are excellent students.

    Guess who’s getting the attention from top schools?

    Her advisor told her last year to add 300 points to her SAT for being a women’s lacrosse player. So far, he has been proved exactly right.

  60. Jim says:

    Maybe someone knows the answer to this one. We are finishing up the renovation on our place in South Jersey. Nothing fancy but it makes the place livable now and fixed a lot of problem areas in our backroom and kitchen. Are property taxes reassessed immediately after a renovation is done?

  61. Final Doom says:

    gator (55)-

    This lady sounds like the reason God invented the taser and duct tape.

    “A new-agey type mom saw it and gushed over the book. She had never heard of it, but apparently she has “studied happiness” for 20 years, and is now certified to be a “happiness mentor” for others.”

  62. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Would someone please put a bullet in Greece?

    They are like a horse with a broken leg. What a bunch of losers the Greeks are.

    I remember as a kid asking my father who our friends were in Europe.

    Looking over a map I pointed to Greece. He replied, “F#ck them they are a bunch of Communists.”

    25 years later he is proven right.

  63. Final Doom says:

    Jim (62)-

    Yes. Once code enforcement does the final inspection, all the info goes to the town clerk & tax gang.

  64. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [42] JJ

    BTW, 3 years off suggests she wasn’t sounding you out for the deed. So don’t get your hopes up.

    As for the Johnesque firing squad, where she nails a few guys to keep it anonymous, that doesn’t work.

  65. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [65] doom

    What if you do your own renos? Do you need to pull a permit and get code inspection?

    I want to do some simple stuff, like add a door to my garage, but I am told that anything requiring a header requires a permit. If I can avoid that by DIY, I will.

  66. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    Just hang a Gadsen flag outside and have registered packages delivered frequently by mail.

    They’ll get the hint.

  67. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom 66 there’s that pesky DNA. Whom ever is on the hook.

  68. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [69] mike

    That’s my point.

    And that brings up another of my predictions. Within the next few years, the Feds will require states to open up their DNA databases to state officials seeking to enforce child support orders. How that will work exactly on a national clearinghouse level is beyond my ken, but I predict that DNA databases will be, if not already, open to state investigators for that purpose. Then it is simply a matter of federal pressure to force states to open them to one another.

  69. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    I’m well past ready for the wave of foreclosures that the media is hyping up.

    Preferably would like to see them hit the market with 30% discounts from recent comps.

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I guess those police department pensions aren’t enough of a financial inducement to be a cop these days:

    “N.Y.P.D. Officer Among Seven Indicted in Tax Scheme

    A New York City police officer and six others have been indicted for their roles in a scheme to steal and receive from the U.S. mail hundreds of thousands of dollars in federal and New York state tax refund checks that were secured by filing false and fraudulent returns, the Justice Department and Internal Revenue Service announced April 6 (United States v. Garcia, S.D.N.Y., arrested 4/5/10).

    According to DOJ, police officer Juan Garcia was among those arrested. Also arrested were Jose Elias Almanzar, Manuel Lnu, Gregorio Lnu, Mercedes Lnu, Guillermo Jerez-Vasquez, and Richard Vladimir Baez. Garcia, Jerez-Vasquez, and Baez were arrested April 5, but the other defendants remain at large, DOJ said.

    Between June and December 2009, the defendants received refund checks from the U.S. Treasury and New York state that were addressed to apartments in a Bronx, N.Y., residential apartment building, DOJ said. The checks were issued as the result of fraudulently filed state and federal tax returns, it said. Many of the returns used stolen Social Security numbers that were assigned to people with Puerto Rican mailing addresses.”

  71. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom, 70

    There are apparently a few court battles at the moment to force states to dump DNA data collected at birth upon request of the parents or the child.

  72. Mr Hyde says:

    AL 64

    Greece is in quit a pickle. They cant print their way out of the debt since they dont control the euro and even if they drop off the euro and go back to a national currency, it doesnt help as the debt is denominated in EUR.

    National default, here we come!

  73. crossroads says:

    “happiness mentor” please tell me the $1,000 per hour /prostitute is making a better living then Miss Happiness.

    Happiness is a warm gun!

  74. RU says:

    #61. At least your daughter has no false hope of trying to earn a living off of lacrosse.
    I do think that it is an indictment of our higher education system. When a college sports coach is paid a higher salary than the president of the university or college then we have a real problem. It’s really just football and basketball. I love watching both sports but did you see the graduation rates of a majority of the players in the tournament. What is the purpose of going to college? And on top of that, even if they do go pro, a lot are broke within five years of leaving the league. Force the NBA and NFL to create minor leagues and allow kids to join once they graduate from HS. Why take up space for some deserving student athlete who really is trying to parlay his athletic ability into an education? I remember the Ohio State Univ. linebacker, Andy Katezenmoyer, who was a huge recruit coming out of HS. One year he didn’t have enough credits to play so he took a summer course in basket weaving. When questioned about it, he stated that he didn’t come to college to learn but to just play football and go pro. He lasted two years in the NFL due to shoulder injuries. I bet he wishes he would’ve taken school seriously now. Probably still living in his parents basement.

  75. Painhrtz says:

    Gator – that is not an appropriate enough punishment for your book club. You should invite her as a full time participant and plant the seed that one of your book club members are in need of her services. Preferably the person that suggested the book. so is Stu trying to initiate Lil Gator into the hockey fraternity.

    52 hughes wonder if he is going to introduce Mister Uranus to Mister Wang for corn holing with sand sans vaseline.

    channeling my inner John

  76. njescapee says:

    72, Could this be a trend? A few employees from Monroe County, FL Sheriff’s dept were recently caught in a similar scam. Inmates filed fraudulent tax returns coordinated by a the deputies.

  77. Jim says:

    Oh well. My taxes are too high already. Now I’ll have to pay for these improvements, which really just make the place livable. I have no idea how these people used the kitchen before I fixed it. Most of the appliances were broke or didn’t work right and the last update was around 1970. I guess that is why so many people do stuff without permits.

    Comrade Nom Deplume- My understanding is if you aren’t moving water/sewer lines or gas lines then you don’t need a permit if doing it yourself. The homeowner can also do the demo without a permit but if a contractor is doing the demo he would need a permit.

  78. Mr Hyde says:


    I thought the 1K/hr prostitute was a “happiness mentor”.

    and good point about the warm gun. So go to the gun range then pickup the hooker and blow in the stretch limo for a night on the town.

  79. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    May the chains of tyranny rest easy on your shoulders.

    You are better off doing it without permits.

  80. RU says:

    #72. It has nothing to do with the pay or pension. They were crooks from the beginning and would have done the same if they were janitors. The problem was that NYPD has been so short on cops they have had to do a lot of mass hirings. When they do that, they don’t increase the number of cops doing background checks so sometimes the check isn’t as thorough as it should be. Standards have also been lowered in order to increase personnel. For years, the pay was so low compared to other towns, that the NYPD was losing tons of officers.

  81. crossroads says:

    I thought the 1K/hr prostitute was a “happiness mentor”.

    I think “happiness mentor” would be the Madam not sure though. the prostitute just happiness. for an hour

  82. Jim says:

    81. Al
    You are probably right. I had a nice looking fence put in last year. I wanted a chain link one, but when the guy from the township came to check the yard out he said, “This is the historic district. A chain link fence really doesn’t fit in here.” He said this meanwhile lots of the houses within sight of our house have chain link fences. I hate historic commissions.

  83. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Looking over a map I pointed to Greece. He replied, “F#ck them they are a bunch of Communists.”

    Al. you may be my brother from another motha!

  84. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    clot – sounds about right.

    For the longest time i tried to deny messi due credit. At times he seems as headless and scrappy as gattusso but the fact that he consistently creates successful outcomes make you realize that his dumb luck is really a sixth sense and his most effortless accomplishments are plays that shouldn’t have even been possible.
    All eyes on him right now and he is more than producing.

    I love the fact that he is not a flashy b!tch. Every time Ronaldo or Ronaldhino get the ball i pray that someone will place a full speed ice hockey cross check into them and shut the circus down.

  85. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    “GM posts $4.3 billion loss in July-December period”


    And that’s the entire US gubmint all up in Toyota’s sh*t. How long until bankruptcy round 2?

  86. sastry says:


    If a tv station shows doctored videos non-stop leading to firing… Is there no way for the fired employee to get legal help?

    Collateral damage?

  87. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    “And that’s the entire US gubmint all up in Toyota’s sh*t. How long until bankruptcy round 2?”

    Plus cash for clunkers!!!

  88. chicagofinance says:

    In case anyone is interested…..

    For Sale: Market Leading Firearms Dealer with Brand Recognition, Strong Cash Flow, Highly Bankable Hard Assets, and Excellent Management

    A market leading firearms dealer, specializing in the shooting sports,
    is available for sale. This one-store operation is located in the Mid-
    Atlantic region. The business has achieved strong revenue growth
    and profitability for over 30 years. Significant growth potential can
    still be realized, but the asking price reflects only its value as-is today.
    The selling owner/operator is willing to remain for up to 2 years at the
    discretion of the acquirer. The acquisition will require a combined
    equity and mezzanine investment of $ 1.5 to $ 2 million. The remaining
    capital can be obtained locally from secured loans. Contact R Lepidi to
    be pre-qualified by seller’s exclusive advisor at richard.lepidi@gmail.com

  89. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [90] chifi

    Too risky. States are always looking to shut down gun shops, and the feds are too. I would only consider a business like that for its liquidation value, and then I would look to put it into hock (to secretly controlled offshore entities) in order to make it judgement proof.

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [88] sastry

    If the videos were doctored, then that may be proof of malice, if FOX doctored them or was aware that they were doctored.

    Hopefully, you aren’t taking ACORN’s word for that?

  91. Mr Hyde says:


    Take a look at greece today. It seems to be heating up a bit…

    from chifi’s favorite site:

  92. chicagofinance says:

    ket: I do not hate the site; I only don’t appreciate readers that do not place its content in context……

  93. sastry says:

    Not all of ACORN, just specific employees featured (with full videoclips) on Maddow.

  94. Confused in NJ says:

    Lowenstein: Thanks to Greenspan and Bernanke, The Next Crisis Could Be “Even Scarier”
    Posted Apr 07, 2010 10:05am EDT by Peter Gorenstein in Investing, Newsmakers, Banking, Politics
    Related: ^dji, ^GSPC, XLF, spy, FAZ, tbt, uup
    Alan Greenspan is on Capitol Hill today testifying in front of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission. The former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has come under increased scrutiny for his failure to anticipate the housing bubble. Roger Lowenstein, author of The End of Wall Street, says the criticism is deserved.

    In Lowenstein’s view Greenspan made several key mistakes.

    — Too Low for Too Long: “He never said ‘gee maybe we shouldn’t have left rates at 1% three years into a recovery’ when housing is rising at double digit rates.”

    — Missed the Bubble: “This idea that you should prick a bubble before it gets too big just totally ran against his grain.”

    — The Market is Always Right: The root of the problem is that Greenspan “believed deeply in the philosophy that if markets do it, it’s right,” Lowenstein says. Current Federal Reserve Chair Ben Bernanke deserves some blame for continuing Greenspan’s policies, he says. “Ben Bernanke is absolutely Greenspan light.”

    What’s even more troubling is that the solution to the crisis, engineered by Washington, may be even more catastrophic, Lowenstein says. “What the government may have done is not solve the Wall Street crisis but may have just assumed Wall Street’s debt.”

    Which brings up the real possibility “the next [crisis] could be centered right in Washington [and] could be even scarier,” Lowenstein warns

  95. Mr Hyde says:


    just poking fun at you, no harm intended. I understand your position.

  96. NJGator says:

    Pain 77 – Re the hockey – absolutely. Lil Gator is finishing his second session of ice skating lessons at Clary Anderson. He’ll do the next Spring session and then move on to Floyd Hall over the summer. He will be ready for Ice Hockey lessons in the fall.

    Not only is he learning to skate, but he has become obsessed with Stu’s fantasy hockey league. He is compulsively checking all the scores to see who is winning (he’s very into counting, numbers and winning these days). God help me when he discovers the message board and all the inappropriate comments. The kid can ready way too well for a 4 year old!

  97. NJGator says:

    Doom 63 – I guess I am just too much of a natural cynic to fit in in Montclair.

  98. Painhrtz says:

    Gator, brings a tear to my eye. almost makes me want to procreate, but i would end up like Clot with a daughter who is a terror to play against

  99. NJGator says:

    Jim 62 – Clot is correct. Only thing you can hope for is that the assessor’s staff is lazy. Our town has been known to take up to 2 years to hit you up after closing out a permit.

  100. njescapee says:

    Pimco’s Gross: Here Comes the Bull Run in Stocks
    Wednesday, 07 Apr 2010 09:22 AM Article Font Size
    By: Gene Koprowski

    In what may be the most brilliant news for stocks in a long time, star bond fund manager Bill Gross is suggesting that the 30-year bull market in fixed-income securities is ending and a new bull market is emerging in equities.

    “Though Gross, who runs Pacific Investment Management Co.’s $214 billion Pimco Total Return Fund, would never tell you to buy stocks, isn’t that what he means?” writes David Pauly, a columnist for Bloomberg News.

    “Pimco, which Gross co-founded, more or less said as much in December. It announced the Pimco Global Opportunities Fund, which will invest in stocks, though it also will buy bank loans, junk bonds and distressed securities.”

    Stocks are overdue for better times after a 10-year span that featured the dot-com crash followed by the more recent Wall Street-induced credit crunch. The market certainly has improved during in the last 12 months.

    “The benchmark Standard & Poor’s 500 Index is up more than 70 percent from its recession low a year ago this month,” writes Pauly.

    “Stocks have improved along with the American economy, which grew 5.6 percent in the fourth quarter as corporate profits jumped 8 percent.”

    Favorable news is continuing the trend.

    Shares of U.S. Steel Corp., a backbone-industry company, have climbed almost 40 percent since Feb. 4, when it was at $44.07. It recently traded at $69.71.

    Apple Inc., maker of iPods and iPads, may hit $300 from its current price of about $239.54, Credit Suisse Group AG said.

    “While Gross is giving stocks an indirect plug, he’s still buying bonds. He recommends, for instance, longer-term securities of Germany and Canada, whose governments are more frugal than that of the U.S. Pimco’s $1 trillion or so of assets are still overwhelmingly in bonds,” writes Pauly. “Let’s wait to see if Pimco makes an even bigger splash in stocks.”

    Others agree that a bull market is in the offing for equities, as MarketWatch reports that publicly-traded companies are now hoarding cash to bolster their balance sheets.

    © Moneynews. All rights reserved.

  101. Final Doom says:

    plume (67)-

    How lucky do you feel?

  102. Final Doom says:

    RU (76)-

    100% agreed. Before this is all over, all the major pro sports in the US will be either pushed to the brink or go bust.

    When this is finally all over, I predict pro sports in the US- from a revenue standpoint- will look very similar to the way they were in 1958.

  103. crossroads says:

    – ” Market is Always Right: The root of the problem is that Greenspan “believed deeply in the philosophy that if markets do it, it’s right,”

    I would think this theory is right if you let markets self correct which Greenspan didn’t

  104. Jim says:

    Well I hope they are slow. We’ve had the place since October 2008 and have done a few projects- small master bedroom bathroom renovated, fence added, kitchen renovated, backroom roof reframed, backroom drywalled and small bathroom added in backroom. I’ll probably get taken to the cleaners.

  105. Final Doom says:

    Look at stark financial realities the NBA now faces. Then, contrast it to the fan interest in terms of seats and merchandise sold.

    Talk about a bubble…

  106. Jim says:

    104. Doom
    I don’t think that will happen. The big difference in modern US sports being TV revenue from broadcast rights.

  107. NJGator says:

    Jim – When our friends got hit up for the kitchen and powder room addition, the town hit them for an $80k increase to their assessment. That’s over $1900/year in additional taxes in our town.

  108. NJGator says:

    If that happened to us, Stu would probably frequently calculate the per dump charge.

  109. John says:

    CHIFI – August 1st is sneaking up

    Nets, Mets and Jets – all three can’t sell seats .

  110. Jim says:

    I’m interested to see how it plays out. I think the assessment is too high right now due to the market going down. I’ll have to see what number they finally come up with.

  111. Final Doom says:

    hyde (93)-

    This year’s first sovereign default…before May 1!

    Good times. It will be a long, hot Summer.

  112. Libtard says:

    Gator Jr. is quite the competitive tot. Nearly ran into a wall trying to beat out a bigger kid at an obstacle course race at a Taekwondo party on Saturday. I’m not sure where he gets this competitive side from, but I think it will take him far in life.

  113. Libtard says:

    Jim (62) –

    You actually got permits? Fool!

  114. Final Doom says:

    chi (94)-

    But I DO put it in proper context: we’re all bum-fcuked.

    “ket: I do not hate the site; I only don’t appreciate readers that do not place its content in context……”

  115. Jim says:

    116. Libtard
    Believe it or not most legitimate contractors won’t do the work without a permit. The problems we had with our house were all because the past work was done without permits over a thirty year period and everything was a ‘Handyman’s Special’. I would hate for the place to burn down because the electrical wiring wasn’t done to code.

  116. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    Yeah looks like Greece has flooded the last ballast tank and is going down hard. Should make for good tv.

    Ive grown a liking for that zerohedge site. The site satisfies my thirst for more and more gloom and doom.

    Just got back from a haircut. I was entertained by evesdropping on a nearby conversation. They were talking about foreclosing and ripping furnaces out etc. The conversation ended with, “this country is screwed Im going to go live with my family in France.”

  117. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    “Good times. It will be a long, hot Summer.”

    That’s ok Bill Gross is going to save the stock market:)

    Seriously I wouldn’t expect Gross to be buying a market that most observers think is overvalued just because “HE CAN”.

  118. Final Doom says:

    HE (120)-

    Bill Gross is not above bucket shop tactics and pump/dump.

  119. Final Doom says:

    ATEOTD, Gross is Satan’s emmissary to the bond markets.

  120. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    I went by the book when I finished my basement a couple years ago. Had it inspected all the way down to the circuit breakers. Multiple inspections in fact.

    Thats when I was an honest guy living in a honest world. Now I am a well armed scumbag living in reality. Dont hate the playa hate the game.

  121. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    The Latest Gold Fraud Bombshell: Canada’s Only Bullion Bank Gold Vault Is Practically Empty, Is The Central Fund Of Canada Insolvent?


    “This is a relevant segue to a class action lawsuit filed against Morgan Stanley, which was settled out of court, in which it was alleged that Morgan Stanley told clients it was selling them precious metals that they would own in full and that the company would store, yet even despite charging storage fees was not in actual possession of the bullion.”

    Now I was wondering why the media blacked out the CFTC revelations. This story just gets juicier and juicier. I suspect if you dont have physical by the end of the year it may be very difficult to get.

  122. WTF says:

    Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:
    April 7, 2010 at 11:13 am
    “GM posts $4.3 billion loss in July-December period”


    And that’s the entire US gubmint all up in Toyota’s sh*t. How long until bankruptcy round 2?

    Toyota’s problems started this year, not last year

  123. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    “Toyota’s problems started this year, not last year”

    Nope as early as September of last year

  124. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    Toyota Begins Interim Notification to Owners Regarding Future Voluntary Safety Recall Related to Floor Mats


  125. #118 – Believe it or not most legitimate contractors won’t do the work without a permit… past work was done without permits over a thirty year period

    You wouldn’t believe the number of people who do large additions without getting permits, only to discover they now have tax issues when the get re-assessed/re-fi/etc. It was a fairly common problem when I worked in the mortgage industry.
    From what I understand many contractors will do the permits (or give the customer the paperwork) as part of the work itself. I’m not sure if the state/county/local also fines them for doing work without having the permit on site.

  126. Jim says:

    In Germany they can make you remove whatever it is you built if you didn’t get permission to build it. I think a big problem in the US is that if the contractor does a jacked-up job the consumer has no legal recourse to fix the problem.

  127. meter says:

    @25 – yep. He’s worth every euro they’re paying him.

    “Anybody see Messi’s 4 goals vs Arsenal yesterday?”

  128. DL says:

    “Tax revenue down, joblessness up, credit gone, jingle mail clogging the bank drop box, demand destruction about to introduce deflation…now would be a great time to institute a national VAT.”
    Paul Volker

  129. NJGator says:

    128 tosh – Our previous next door neighbors did an addition and multiple bathrooms without a permit. They never got fined by the town, but their taxes went up about 60% after our revaluation.

    They wound up putting the house up for sale and divorcing when they got $200k less than they thought they could get for it.

  130. NJGator says:

    Jim 113 – What town are you in?

  131. meter says:

    @43 – STFU already, you dolt.

    If you actually read – or better yet, comprehended – his (Shore’s) comments, you’d realize he’s more right-leaning than left.

  132. NJGator says:

    Barbara – Have you checked out 55 Warren? This one will be much more attractive after the owners win their tax appeal. I can see it now “But Your Honor, how can this POS be worth $910,000 when I can’t even sell it for $649,000?”


  133. #133 – That sounds about right.
    We had one guy, who was himself a contractor so no excuses, increase the size of the house by about 1k+ sq ft with out a permit(s). Added a whole second floor and a big garage. About a year later he went to cash-out only to have an issue when the appraisal came in and completely didn’t match what was on the tax records. The appraiser called us to make sure the address was right because the house was that much bigger than the tax records said.
    He eventually dropped the refi, no idea of what happened to his taxes.
    The place was in Jackson and in the woods, so there were no nosy neighbors to call the township while he was doing all this.

  134. Barbara says:

    Understand this,
    after this new version of photoshop is released, not only should not believe everything you read, but you need to view every photograph with much skepticism. Video too, same technology. This stuff is fractal based and puts CGI ( which the human eye can always pick up) to shame. I will be ordering it and can’t wait to fool around with that clone tool.


  135. Jim says:

    134. NJGator says:
    April 7, 2010 at 1:28 pm
    Jim 113 – What town are you in?

    Mount Holly in Burlingon County.

  136. Confused in NJ says:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — A former executive of Citigroup Inc. is telling a panel investigating the roots of the financial crisis that he warned former chairman Robert Rubin and other bank leaders about the coming mortgage crisis back in 2006.

    Richard Bowen says other Citigroup executives were violating the bank’s own risk management standards starting in 2006. He says he discovered in the middle of that year that over 60 percent of the mortgages bought and resold by subprime subsidiary Citifinancial Mortgage were defective. Bowen was chief underwriter for the division.

    Bowen says he issued many warnings to management about the mortgage risk starting in 2006, and e-mailed Rubin in November 2007.

    Bowen’s testimony is part of three days of hearings by the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission

  137. Barbara says:

    I’ve seen that house on the mls. Like everything else I see in Montclair, its about 150k shy of sanity range. The crap kitchen, the drop ceilings and they are not showing you the bathrooms so….650k is its POTENTIAL price imo, maybe 700 if you expand the bathrooms. Everybody wants the flip price.

  138. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    “I am a well armed scumbag.”

    Al, Don’t be so hard on yourself buddy.
    Thats the description of a model citizen in Guadalahara mexico.

  139. Libtard says:


    Take it easy. I was only busting on you about the permits. The key is to know when you need ’em and when you don’t. Also, how long it takes the town to send an inspector also plays into the equation. When we were redoing the one full bathroom that our tenant has, it would have never worked if we had to wait for a Montclair inspector. The permit fee for our water heater was $50, and it took Montclair 4 months to get an inspector out to our house. When I do the work, I always take out a book on current codes to make sure I would pass them if I was inspected some day. Nothing I have done really ‘needed’ one.

  140. Jim says:

    The whole permit process is a big money making scheme. Combine that with the historic commission and you have too much control over people. There is a small building next door with a couple of apartments and the city inspector came out to look at some work that was done. He noticed windows that had aluminum frames and told the new owner he had to switch those out for wood framed windows. They didn’t meet the standards for the historic district.

  141. scribe says:

    Nom, Hyde ..

    I can take the bus to the Poconos from the Port Authority …

    I’m good to go whenever you are on the weekend

    Let’s make a real GTG out of it.

  142. Confused in NJ says:

    One of the biggest scams in NJ is adding points to your insurance, in addition to a ticket, for a traffic infraction. Sort of double jeopardy. Another scam is raising your rates after an accident, as though the insurance premium was theirs for free.

  143. NJGator says:

    Jim 139 – Average ratio for your town this year is 47.64. Once they increase the assessments based on your improvements, you would have to prove that your assessment is more than 54.79% of fair market value of the house in order to appeal it successfully.

  144. NJGator says:

    Confused 146 – How about raising your rates after you are in an accident in which you were not even at fault.

  145. Shore Guy says:

    For the hockey nuts amongst us, someone just sent me this in an e-mail:

    The first testicular guard “Cup” was used in Hockey in 1874 and the first helmet was used in 1974.

    That means it took 100 years for men to realize that their brain is also important.

  146. NJGator says:

    Shore 149 – why does this not surprise me one bit?

  147. Shore Guy says:

    “that with the historic commission and you have too much control over people.”

    The Camp Meeting Association in Ocean Grove beats evey commission, agency, or other control group for intrusiveness.

  148. Shore Guy says:

    “Mount Holly ”

    John went to mount Holly once, didn’t he?

  149. Painhrtz says:

    Shore I never wear a cup too restrictive when skating. Most hockey players I know don’t. We all where helmets. Then again I never wanted kids, and have taken I few shots that probably scrambled the DNA so to speak.

  150. Jim says:

    Thanks for the info. I just hope it doesn’t go up too much.

  151. TB72 says:

    “Mount Holly ”

    John went to mount Holly once, didn’t he?

    The pope went to mount olive once, Popoeye kicked the crap outta him.

  152. Libtard says:

    Pain(153)…That is no less than insane. I have taken more sticks and pucks to the groin than I could count on 2 hands and 2 feet. On top of that, I wouldn’t be terribly comfortable with my jewels bouncing around like a free electron.

  153. Alap says:


    3 min in, ManU up 1-0.

    4-1 odds arent lookin too good

  154. John says:

    and banged her head off the head board.

  155. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [149] shore


  156. John says:

    When I bought my house in 1999 guy put an illegal third bathroom in and a small deck did not get permits as he did not want to pay extra taxes. Sold it to me and put like 10K in escrow for me to get permits for all additions.

    Well his dope lawyer labeled it just like that. Turns out when he bought it in 1991 bank missed prior owner dormed whole top floor, enclosed a downstairs open porch to make a florida room and added a upstairs deck off master bedroom.

    So I had to get permits for everything. Three times in a row the italian building inspector point blank asked for a bribe. Three times I told him I did not do any of this work and I can only get money out of escrow to pay to have it legally done and I have all the time in the world I ain’t selling it so no rush/

    Finally I squealed on him and his boss gave me the the permits and the Italian guy came by a fourth time. I said would he like to go look at the bathroom and dormer and he told me don’t start with that crap you already have your permit, shoved it in my hand and pealed out in his monte carlo.

    Now funny part I bought my house in a stop bankruptcy deal cheap so I grieved my house at same time I got permits and won and in end taxes fell $500 bucks a year. First owner paid no taxes for 20 years on renovation, Second owner paid no taxes on renovation for nine years, third owner me paid no taxes on reno as I got house re-appaised at purchase price. I had to give back the escrow money as town only charged me like $100 bucks. Everyone won. Who in right mind would get a permit unless they are selling house right away.

  157. Seneca says:

    Spirit Airlines to charge for using overhead bins. Discuss.

    My preference would be for better enforcement of the one bag per person plus one personal item that must go under seat rule. And that would include enforcing the size of the bag that does go into the overhead.

    I’ve lost track of the number of times I have seen people have to check a small duffel bag on a cross country flight because some idiot throws an oversized rolling carry on, plus shopping bag plus coat into the overhead space over their row.


  158. John says:

    I still get a kick of of Islanders wining stanley cups in the 1970s and the guys wearing no helmuts

    Shore Guy says:
    April 7, 2010 at 2:24 pm
    For the hockey nuts amongst us, someone just sent me this in an e-mail:

    The first testicular guard “Cup” was used in Hockey in 1874 and the first helmet was used in 1974.

    That means it took 100 years for men to realize that their brain is also important.

  159. Barbara says:

    All inspections offices are corrupt ime. The local Joey Cannolis line up fOr 35k a yr inspection jobs. Why? 500 a day in bribe money, thats what.

  160. Barbara says:

    errrm, that’s WHY

  161. yo'me says:

    Why is this bad news for the market?

    WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) – U.S. households paid down their debts in February for the 15th time in the past 17 months, the Federal Reserve reported Wednesday. Outstanding consumer credit dropped by $11.5 billion, or a 5.6% annual rate, to $2.45 trillion in February following an upwardly revised $10.6 billion increase in January. Debts had declined for 12 straight months before January’s increase and are down 5.2% from the peak in July 2008. In February, revolving credit, such as credit cards, declined by $9.4 billion, or a 13.1% annual pace, to $858.1 billion. Non-revolving credit, such as auto loans, student loans and personal loans, fell by $2.1 billion, or a 1.6% annual rate, to $1.59 trillion in February.

  162. Painhrtz says:

    Lib so have I it is all about knowing how to protect your boys which I have gotten very good at after a few good shots

  163. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “Why is this bad news for the market?”

    1)It was way under expectations

    2)It shows that any money people are getting is going towards paying off debt not buying things which is completely contrary to the permabulls story

  164. John says:

    cause sober sailors don’t spend like drunken sailors

  165. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    market is correcting on heonig’s comments

  166. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Hoenigs been popping off for weeks, it’s the Consumer Credit number

  167. yo'me says:

    If the market trade for future:
    the sober sailors is paying their debt from the liquor stores so their credit will open for future purchases.Will that not be a good outloook?

  168. safeashouses says:


    Greenspan said. “I was right 70% of the time. But I was wrong 30% of the time, and there were an awful lot of mistakes in 21 years

    I think he is wrong again. Perhaps he should reverse that to being right 30% of the time. .300 is great for a power hitter, but lousy for a place kicker or fed chairman.

  169. Libtard says:

    What about?

    MBA Purchase Applications
    Released on 4/7/2010 7:00:00 AM For wk4/2, 2010
    Prior Actual
    W/W Change 6.8 % 0.2 %

    The Mortgage Bankers’ purchase index, up 0.2 percent in the Easter week, added slightly to prior gains. But mortgage rates are the report’s big headline, jumping 27 basis points in the week for 30-year loans to 5.31 percent in what the report blames on the end to Fed purchases of mortgage-backed securities. The jump in rates dried up demand for refinancing with the index down 16.9 percent.

    The jump in rates will hurt more than refinancing and is certain to limit demand for home purchases at a critical time for the housing sector which is trying to recover from a deep drop following November’s expiration of first-round stimulus.

  170. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “Will that not be a good outloook?” From the prospects of an economic recovery years down the road? Yes. From the run-up of stocks the past year? Not so much.

  171. make money says:

    there was a ppt that I think kettle posted almost two years ago on how the whole housing bubble was created and how it blew up.

    It had very simple sketches of families buying homes,and wall steet slicing and dicing MBS and selling them oversees, and then someoene in Norway called in cause he wasn’t getting his interest and his whole towns pension plan was blown and teh wall street guy tells him to tell the peopel he fcud up.

    I need this power point slide can someone help me.

  172. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — U.S. stocks tumbled to session lows Wednesday after Kansas City Fed President Thomas Hoenig said the Federal Reserve should abandon its zero interest-rate policy soon. The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 70 points after Hoenig spoke.

  173. Barbara says:

    this is why I largely ignore financial media because for the last 10 years, what’s up is down, what’s down is up. Your instincts are of course correct, its a healthy long term trend. Financial media doesn’t like long term talk.

  174. RentinginNJ says:

    My preference would be for better enforcement of the one bag per person … rule

    All the headaches of enforcing rules against travelers who think they are entitled to take up all the space they want, getting in fights with passengers in the terminal, versus option 2; simply dealing with the problem economically.

    Option 2 is much easier, much more profitable & like everything else the airlines do to travelers, will be accepted after some grumbling.

  175. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Veto 177:

    Uncle Ben will raise rates to 1% in 2020. By then we will be a living in shanty towns with $10/gallon gas.

    I maybe getting a bit more cynical now full knowing the path this country is heading towards.

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  177. Mr hyde says:


    hehe got it for you. Good memory by the way!

    PS Hyde = kettle1

  178. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    i figured it was u or bc

  179. Mr hyde says:

    I just finished dealing with the corrupt nj system.

    So barb. I feel your pain and can’t wait to see it burn to the ground. I’ll even drink a knob creek with clot in celebration.

    Let the mother F’er burn!

  180. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    “what’s up is down, what’s down is up”

    yeah i have no idea whats moving the market.

    It’s obviously marching to the beat of its own drum since the beginning of last year.

    Financial statement or technical analysis has little value in this environment. Just pick any old blue chip that has tried with all their effort to run themselves into the ground and you are pretty much guaranteed to be rewarded handily.

    i’ll know its time to sell all stocks when C and GE are up another 50% from current levels and everyone is talking about dow 15k and the 2008 recession as if it was history.

  181. Seneca says:

    Renting [179]

    “…versus option 2; simply dealing with the problem economically.

    Option 2 is much easier, much more profitable & like everything else the airlines do to travelers, will be accepted after some grumbling.”

    But I live in Utopia!

    (ok, I actually agree with you, nickel and dime time. most of my travel is on the company $ anyway and for the few times a year I get to travel for pleasure, I usually have to check a bag anyway).

    The extra charge is worth it to save all the time wasted on people who have no spatial reasoning ability and hold up the 100 other people trying to board the plane while they wrestle with their bag.

    My question is, how do they police the empty space in the overheads that could be left after paying customers stow their junk?

  182. Mr hyde says:


    I am a novice in the world of investing, but I have been making a profit trading based on tech analysis.

    While I think we are all Fd in the end I trade as an agnostic and trade however the technicals point regardless of whether it’s long or short

  183. Jim says:

    There is wayyy too much real estate news and talk about the economy today. Question- Will Tiger win the Masters or will he decide to mount Holly along with John?

  184. Shore Guy says:

    And what percentage of income does the next 12-20 percent pay?

    Sent by a friend:

    Some 47% will pay no federal income taxes in ’09
    Projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization, show that about 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009, AP reported. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability.

  185. Shore Guy says:


    and Marcy

  186. Mr hyde says:

    Jim is holly the 40 ye old looking for a kid?

  187. njescapee says:

    Shore, so if the dems make that 51% that pay no taxes. They’ll have an automatic majority.

  188. njescapee says:

    even better / more palatable than giving amnesty to illegals

  189. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    its extremely difficult for an individual to consistently beat the market, expecially when you add in all the trading fees. More power to any who can do it. I cannot.

    Thats why i just diversify and adjust risk through asset allocation. The craziest thing i do is pick a stock here and there.

    One of the only variables that i could ever really rely on to consistently produce real returns has been TIME. Even that has lots of unforeseen risk.

  190. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    haha thats pretty funny.

  191. Jim says:

    If they end up ramming a VAT tax through none of us will have enough money left over to really make anything on our invested money. We’ll be too busy working to pay off all the new taxes, oh sorry, I mean fees, to pay the federal government (for the national health plan the majority didn’t want).

  192. Mr hyde says:


    To be clear I claim no paticular expertise in this realm. Perhaps I have been lucky

  193. Jim says:

    VAT in Germany is 19% BTW…that would sure drive up the cost of that new car if the US adopted a VAT, wouldn’t it?

  194. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    “Perhaps I have been lucky”

    ha ha hyde.
    Market is up 80% in last year and a half. Everyone who invested during that time is lucky.

  195. Mr hyde says:

    VAT. An oxymoron if there ever was one

  196. Mr hyde says:


    most of my trades are short term with a good portion of the long term positions in things other then equities.

    So far I have trade more on the “noise” ofvthe market.

    I was fortunate have a great mentor who introduced me to the finer art of trading.

  197. Yikes says:

    Quick question: I know people have talked about burying/digging up propane tanks in your yard.

    we have electric heat and the people we’re talking to a pool about say that you can just “bury a tank” to heat the hot tub.

    isn’t the propane tank in your yard a terrible idea?

    (I prefer solar; for some reason, none of the pool guys are fans)

    help, nj re report!

  198. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [203] yikes

    Why would you bury it? I used to live in NH and we had those tanks. They are made for above-ground use.

  199. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Chifi, this is for you.

    From the Harvard Business Review:

    “Second, we should move more rapidly to make our GAPP-based accounting systems more compatible with the emerging international standards. . . . .”

    Robert H. Hayes
    Philip Caldwell Professor of Business Administration, emeritus,
    Harvard Business School

    “GAPP-based” accounting??????

    But its from Harvard, so it must be correct. Right? Bueller?

  200. Mr Hyde says:


    Re propane tanks

    You can bury them but the major factors tend to be

    Depth of water table
    Distance from body of water and elevation above waterline
    Flood plain proximity
    Rainwater drainage

    Due to the nature of propane heavy rains can actually float a tank out of the ground. rare, but it can happen. They will sometimes anchor the tank in the ground by pouring cement into the bottom of the hole before covering the tank.

    The ground conditions at your location may not be suitable for burial. Local regulations may also impose other barriers that make underground tank installation unfavorable.

    it also depends on the size of the tank. From my personal experience you usually do not see tanks smaller then 200 gallons buried.

    propane tanks are also a different beast then a buried oil tank. a leaking oil tank is a huge liability, but a leaking propane tank is not as much of a liability as the propane will evaporate and not seep into the surrounding soil/water table.

  201. Mr Hyde says:


    re solar pool heating. The contractors may not be familiar with solar thermal. or you may not have a good site for solar thermal. Have you had a site analysis done?

  202. safeashouses says:


    Propane is very expensive. I was paying $110 to $120 a month for hot water and cooking gas. You should find out how much it would cost to heat a pool for the season. If your site is suitable for solar, due a cost comparison of propane vs solar and how many years to break even on the solar investment.

  203. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    “I was fortunate have a great mentor who introduced me to the finer art of trading.”

    hyde, I was fortunate to have a mentor teach me the finer points of law.

    But i will prob not attempt to dabble by defending myself in court.

  204. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    i think they might be referring to the tube in london – ‘mind the gapp’.

  205. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto 209

    Apples to oranges.

    investing generally does not have the possibility of removing your personal freedoms.

    I know you like to be contrary on occasion, but that is a ridiculous comparison.

  206. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    “but that is a ridiculous comparison”


    You are thinking extreme scenario involving possible prison sentance. I agree that would be apples to oranges. instead, think of a court case in which you can only lose, say $10k – $50k.

    Even if you read law for dummies, spoke to johnny cocraine a few times, got yourself out of a speeding ticket and memorized all the lines from a few good men, it would still be way better to pay an experienced lawyer $2-3k and have more certainty.

  207. Mr hyde says:


    well then, I guess I am just that good!


  208. Mr hyde says:


    we will have to agree to disagree on that analogy.


  209. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    Homebuyers scramble as mortgage rates jump

    WASHINGTON (AP) – The era of record-low mortgage rates is over.
    The average rate on a 30-year loan has jumped from about 5 percent to more than 5.3 percent in just the past week. As mortgages get more expensive, more would-be homeowners are priced out of the market—a threat to the fragile recovery in the housing market.

    And if you wanted to refinance at a super-low rate, you may have missed your chance. Mortgages under 4 percent are still available, but only for loans that reset in five or seven years, probably to higher rates.

    Rates are going up because of the improving economy and the end of a government push to make mortgages cheaper.

    For people putting their homes on the market this spring, rising rates may actually be a good thing. Buyers are racing to complete their purchases and lock in something decent before rates go even higher.

    “We are seeing some panic among potential buyers who have not found houses yet,” said Craig Strent, co-founder of Apex Home Loans in Bethesda, Md. “They’re saying: Man, I should have found a house three weeks ago or last month when rates are lower.”

    It’s all about affordability. For every 1 percentage point rise in rates, 300,000 to 400,000 would-be buyers are priced out of the market in a given year, according to the National Association of Realtors.

  210. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    “The rule of thumb is that every 1 percentage point increase in mortgage rates reduces a buyer’s purchasing power by about 10 percent.”

    Said another way…
    For every 1% increase in rates, prices come down about 10%.

  211. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    hyde, dont mind me tonight buddy. I’m bored.

  212. Stu says:


  213. njescapee says:

    How are those new new Homeland Security passenger screening procedures working out?

    NBC News and news services
    updated 15 minutes ago
    A passenger attempted to light an explosive device but was subdued by a federal air marshal aboard an airliner flying from Washington to Denver on Wednesday night, sources close to the House Homeland Security Committee told NBC News.

    United Flight 663, a Boeing 757 with 157 passengers and six crew members aboard, landed safely at Denver International Airport, airline and airport officials said.

  214. cobbler says:

    An update from the above:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Federal officials say the FBI is probing whether a man tried to ignite his shoes on a DC to Denver flight.

    An official says an air marshal on the flight apparently restrained them. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the investigation.

    Transportation Security Administration Kristin Lee says the man is being interviewed by law enforcement in Denver.

    Two officials say the man is a Qatari diplomat who has been in the United States for years.

    Unlike the Christmas Day bomb attempt on an Detroit-bound airliner, officials say it is not immediately clear what the man was trying to do — something harmful like start a fire or explosion, or something as innocent as smoke a cigarette.

    Officials insisted Wednesday night it was still too early to tell whether the incident was an attempted act of terrorism or a giant misunderstanding.

  215. cobbler says:

    Re. propane tanks:

    Propane supplier is supposed to follow the code, and according to these rules the bigger tanks have to be inspected and hydrotested every several years (don’t remember, 7 or 10). If they are not checked, the supplier wouldn’t refill the tank. Digging it up to inspect/test is a major pain.

  216. Must Sell says:

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