An actual “virtual tsunami of tax appeals”

From the Record:

Commercial properties’ slump could slam homeowners

The commercial real estate slump may be dragging down landlords’ rental incomes, but it may also help reduce their tax bills.

Faced with values that have plunged over the last two years, commercial real estate owners are expected to appeal their properties’ assessments in record numbers this year, hoping to trim their property tax bills.

Since the commercial real estate market’s peak in October 2007, values of office buildings, warehouses, shopping centers, apartment complexes and hotels nationwide declined 41 percent by December, according to ratings agency Moody’s Investors Service.

This year and next, New Jersey’s cities and towns will see “a virtual tsunami of tax appeals,” said Frank E. Ferruggia, an attorney who specializes in the process at McCarter & English LLP in Newark. Successful commercial appeals mean lower assessments and reduced taxes, putting more of a burden on homeowners.

Last year, New Jersey’s Tax Court docketed 13,635 tax appeals, most of them involving commercial properties, an increase of 22 percent compared to the 11,201 in 2008 and triple the caseload for appeals in 2001, according to an Oct. 30 state Tax Court report. Last year’s increase doesn’t include 1,991 additional appeals that were filed but not docketed because of the court’s backlog.

The Tax Court report predicted an increase this year because of declining real estate values. As of last Monday, the Tax Court had received roughly 8,000 appeals, up from the 6,823 the court received during the same time last year, said Lynne Allsop, court executive.

“They’re sucking wind. There’s no question about it. Between lower rents and higher vacancies, they’re really getting squeezed from all ends,” said Carl Rizzo, an attorney at Cole, Schotz, Meisel, Forman & Leonard P.A. in Hackensack, referring to property owners he represents.

Losing property tax revenue from commercial properties leaves municipal leaders with tough choices. Towns can raise the tax rate as the tax burden shifts to other taxpayers because of reduced assessments. They can borrow money through issuing bonds to replace lost revenue. Or they can cut expenses.

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

358 Responses to An actual “virtual tsunami of tax appeals”

  1. Roy G Biv says:

    What am I doing up so early ???

  2. SG says:

    Bubbles in Asset Prices

    That should keep you up !!!

  3. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Apartment Rents Rise as Sector Stabilizes

    Apartment rents rose during the first quarter, ending five straight quarters of declines and signaling the worst may be over for the hard-hit sector.

    Nationally, the apartment vacancy rate stayed flat at 8%, the highest level since Reis Inc., a New York research firm, began its tally in 1980.

    Reis tracks vacancies and rents in the top 79 U.S. markets, and rents rose in 60 of them, led by Miami, Seattle and New York—all cities that have notched big rental declines in the past year.

    Rents increased 1.6% in the first quarter in Miami and 0.9% in New York. The gains came during what is usually a seasonally weak period for apartments and suggested that landlords may have some momentum heading into the peak spring and summer leasing season.

    “Deterioration seems not to have just been arrested but reversed,” said Victor Calanog, director of research for Reis. “Several markets have bottomed and may be on track to recovery,” he said.

    Nationally, effective rents, which include concessions such as one month of free rent, rose 0.3% during the quarter compared with a 0.7% decline in the fourth quarter of last year and a 1.1% drop in the first quarter of 2009. Vacancies are tied to unemployment, because many would-be renters move in with family members or double up during a downturn.

    Others warned that gains were fragile and that landlords could continue to offer concessions to fill units.

    “Rent reductions are not over yet,” said Hessam Nadji, managing director at real-estate firm Marcus & Millichap. He said he didn’t expect to see sustained rental growth until the second half of the year.

    Barely half of the 22,000 units in buildings that opened their doors last quarter were filled, and landlords may cut deals because they face deadlines to pay back construction loans. “That’s where renters are going to find deals,” Mr. Calanog said.

  4. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Let the Short Sales Begin

    Today the Administration’s Home Affordable Foreclosure Alternative Plan takes effect, offering incentives to borrowers, servicers, investors and second lien holders to push short sales through the system. Yep, everyone gets a cut of government funds to get these troubled borrowers out of their homes and get them sold, even if the sale price is less than the value of the loan.

    I find it interesting that before the plan even went into effect today, the Administration upped the incentives a week ago, doubling the amount of cash to $3000 offered as borrower “relocation expenses” and juicing the payoffs to the others as well. Of course they want to push short sales because of course they know that their modification program isn’t working as planned.

    But the biggest impediment to the plan is the lenders themselves, who have to weigh what’s going to save them the most money and cause them the least bleeding on their books.

  5. crossroads says:

    did the FHA changes kick into effect?

  6. Anon E. Moose says:

    Gator [yesterday-192];

    Neighbors would LOVE you if you restore sanity to the block.

    How bout if the neighbors show the love green style? There’s been an eyesore of a foreclosure for sale in the $600k range in a tony little North Shore enclave of Long Island. Other houses for sale on the block at literally double the price. I’ve considered approaching the neighbors to explore how much putting a floor under their property values and putting an occupant in the place next door was worth to them. I envisioned as much as $50k from at least a handful of houses. I expected that those looking to sell north of $1MM would be particularly pliant, just to get the listing out of the MLS book.

  7. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Simple question, the gubmint has spent $3-4T to slow down this econmic freefall and things have hit a plateau. Now what? Where’s the growth going to come from? How do they avoid another recession when we’d still be in one but for the $3-4T in spending?

  8. NJGator says:

    6 Anon – Am happy to introduce Barbara to the neighbors. And I am sure all the neighborhood kids will love her alpaca farm!

  9. NJGator says:

    Alpaca farm would be much nicer than the regular HS kegger parties the house is currently used for.

  10. Mr Hyde says:


    From last night…

    I wonder how effective a low yield nuclear bunker buster from israel would really be. I would image that iran took that possibility into consideration. That also seems to be Pandora’s box. On the off chance that iran already has a rudimentary nuke then they could respond in kind.

    heck they could already build a very crude shotgun type weapon ala “little boy” and put it on top of their existing IRBMs.

    Sounds like a good way to potentially start WWIII to me. China has some serious interests in Iranian oil and gas and could easily be pulled into the conflict of “regime change” if they think the west stands to gain influence over those reserves.

  11. Mr Hyde says:


    Subtract the government stimulus and we are in an official depression, as defined by a drop in GDP of more then 10%…

  12. freedy says:

    what depression, listen to the news we are in
    a recovery .depression over. i heard it several times on bloom, cnbc,

    afterall, they are in our corner

  13. chicagofinance says:

    222.Final Doom says:
    April 5, 2010 at 11:44 pm
    Chifi just called. He said to tell everybody ZH only prints lies.

    doom: I never question the veracity of the posts on Zero Hedge…….note: I refer to it as Zero Value, not Zero Truth.

  14. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Freedy LOL

  15. Final Doom says:

    chi (13)-

    Yeah, that attempted hit-and-run on Maguire after his CFTC thing…just a coincidence. Don’t inflame people by attempting to make connections where none exist.

  16. Final Doom says:

    Mainstream media, the gubmint and the banks are our friends. They make things better for us every day.

  17. Final Doom says:

    I don’t mind that my neighbors are getting principal reductions. They need it.

  18. make money says:

    My dad used to say that the family fights always start when the piggy is empty.

  19. Final Doom says:

    Of course, banks should be able to swap CCC subprime glop for new, crispy, AAA-rated, FHA-backed paper.

    Our country will fail without a healthy sector of giant financial casinos. How else can we recapitalize them?

  20. Final Doom says:

    That hit-run on Maguire was probably over his gambling debts.

  21. make money says:


    Stop paying your mortgage immediately. I can’t believe the reduction my brother got. I’m still waiting for mine though.

  22. Final Doom says:

    make (18)-

    Anyone currently at Ramapo College is probably better off working on a road crew.

  23. Barbara says:

    that Ardsley house is handsome, except for the kitchen reno, oysh. Still too pricey but I will keep an eye on it.

  24. Final Doom says:

    make (21)-

    The trick to playing the game is to always keep your mortgage around 60 days rolling late. That way, it never slips into non-accrual, and you can relentlessly torture the bank until they give in to you.

  25. Mr Hyde says:

    Mikeinwaiting, Pain, wag

    Anyone up for another sussex GTG????

  26. Mr Hyde says:


    I am in for a GTG out your way, just name a time and place

  27. Final Doom says:

    Any regular commercial mortgage can get recast into at least 3 years, interest-only- at the same rate as the original loan- by playing the game in #24.

    Letting the lender know that you will stop paying the insurance and taxes while allowing the property to get to a permanent rolling 60-late status is also a great little blackmail tool.

  28. Painhrtz says:

    Sussex do i have to? Lets meet at the range in stokes and make it a skeet shooting event. I’ll bring my thrower

    As far as the article grim posted, we all know option three “cut expenses” is seriously being considered

  29. Mr Hyde says:


    I thought you were from that neck of the woods…..

    We could always do another morristown GTG

  30. make money says:

    The trick to playing the game is to always keep your mortgage around 60 days rolling late. That way, it never slips into non-accrual, and you can relentlessly torture the bank until they give in to you.


    Spot on. You’re the man.

  31. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket 25 I’m in.

  32. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Morris is doable from my hinterland loc.
    Pain, Sparta is not that far off of 80 like 10 15 min to the bar.

  33. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot, Make almost makes me wish I had a mortgage, I would play them like a harp.

  34. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde no I just hunt there. Looking in morris county though. I actually like the idea of a NJRER skeet shoot. I’m firmly patting myself on the back

  35. Final Doom says:

    Is the Playboy Club in Sussex Co. still open?

  36. NJGator says:

    Barbara 23 – Lowball it. These folks HAVE to sell. House is really vacant. Only reason they were holding it was so the brats could finish out school at MHS. I am pretty sure they are eager to rid themselves of the 20k tax bill. And they do already have a pending appeal. House next door (much less renovated) sold for %525k last year, so they will definitely be getting a reduction.

  37. Final Doom says:

    mike (33)-

    Beat them like a redheaded stepchild.

  38. Final Doom says:

    gator (36)-

    Give the kids who are partying in it cash to buy more kegs and a variety of drugs. Use a homeless person as the courier so it can’t be traced back to you.

  39. Mikeinwaiting says:

    No Clot it is a run down hotel with some indigent families being put up there by the gov. Come on up for the tour, have a guest room if we end up at the local gin mill. I know the guy who runs it we can look all around as VIP’s the bar is still open!

  40. Mikeinwaiting says:

    By the way since we have teeth we are already VIPs.

  41. NJGator says:

    Barbara – Have you seen this place in GR? It’s on the corner of Ridgewood and Bay. It’s an estate sale and needs lots of work, and has been sitting FOREVER. Place is huge and the ask is now down to $599k. Prestigious address and Forest Ave school. Easily a bargain at twice the price. Awaiting your decorative touch! On the positive side – no granite or stainless steel anywhere! :)

  42. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Pain, anyone what is a central loc , suggestions?

  43. Final Doom says:

    Mike (39)-

    How could I resist such an invite?

    I also have a full set of teeth. Maybe we can get lucky at the bar.

  44. NJGator says:

    As a side note to 36, these folks may be the first ones ever to pay $20k in taxes so their brats could attend Montclair HS instead of Glen Ridge.

  45. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Christ Gator 42 did you see the taxes on that even with an appeal 23k, what down to 19k I’ll pass.

  46. Painhrtz says:

    Mike Brigadoon

  47. Shore Guy says:


    Iran poses a real problem. Let’s face it, once they have several fissile weapons, they will be emboldened. We lack the interest to conduct strikes to retard their weapons development and have all the means with which to do so. Israel has the interest and decent capability, but not enough for a sustained conventional-weapon campaign; thus, while Israed would no doubt destroy or degrade any numbr of Iranian nuclear-weapons-complex facilities, short of a first-strike nuclear attack, I fail to see how they will halt the Iranian advance.

    We can only hope that Iran is focused in a gun-type weapon, fueled with Uranium. It takes a lot more material, is larger, and produces a lower yield explosion for the amount of material used. Still, just ask Hiroshima, they can do severe damage.

    Israel is in a real pickle. I would not put it past Iran to hit deveral Israeli cities with special weapons once they have several of them. The fallout would drift over nations Iran does not like and it would allow the Iranians to claim the mantle of the ones who destroyed Israel. Of course, Isreal may well then launch an all out assault on both Iran and the whole of the Arab world, but then ww have a gnarley mess on our hands.

    The first-strike option brings Israel a host of other political issues, although using an enhanced radiation device might overcome some of the bigger problems associated with colateral damage.

    Allowing Iran to bring nuclear warheads online is not an option but. degrading Iranian nuclear capabilities without full-out American involvement does not seem likely to be fully successful. If one attacks Iran and leaves warheads undestroyed, oneall but guarantees the vaporization of some Israeli cities, I suspect..

  48. NJGator says:

    Mike 46 – Yes I’ve seen them. They’re a big reason why the place hasn’t sold. They will be getting a nice, fat reduction this year. But they will still be pricy. I’m thinking somewhere around 18-20k after the appeal.

    Of course after you renovate the place, they will probably climb back up to 25k.

  49. Mikeinwaiting says:

    44 Clot the question is do we want to get lucky there. Oh I forgot no teeth on women is a plus. Let me know when you want to take a ride up.

  50. sg says:

    I vote for gtg at clot’s office.

  51. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gator so my back of the napkin 19k is about spot on in your more knowledgeable tax appeal experience. Then back up to 25, who ever buys that better have some real deep pockets.

  52. NJGator says:

    Mike 52 – It’s Ridgewood Ave baby. If you don’t have deep pockets, you don’t belong there. Go look in Bloomfield.

    The location is an issue too – it’s at the intersection of 2 county roads – Ridgewood and Bay. Traffic light at the corner. Mountainside Hospital down the block on Bay Ave. Lots of ambulances driving by. Previous owner was a doctor, and I’m guessing he worked over at Mountainside.

  53. Mikeinwaiting says:

    sg Maybe we could work a deal with a group discount in a local hotel. Clot’s office, no one can drive home. Maybe get stu on it he’s good at that.

  54. Final Doom says:

    sg (51)-

    All I have at my office is a shelf full of whiskey and internet gambling.

  55. Mr Hyde says:


    We can only hope that Iran is focused in a gun-type weapon, fueled with Uranium. It takes a lot more material, is larger, and produces a lower yield explosion for the amount of material used. Still, just ask Hiroshima, they can do severe damage.

    A gun type weapon isnt exactly efficient but its psychological effect, the impact of iran firing a functional nuke in response to a first strike, would many orders of magnitude more damaging then the actual weapon itself.

    The average joe only knows that iran fired a nuke, the fact that it would be the model T of nukes is irrelevant at that point. They would also have a lot of political cache if the fired it at a non-civilian target and only in response to a nuclear first strike by israel.

    They could reasonably defend the defense use of a nuke in response to a nuclear first strike.

    That scenario is not significantly different then the US using our only 2 existing nukes in japan and counting on not being forced to use a 3rd one that didnt exist at the time.

    Any military option in Iran at this point seems to have particularly bad outcomes. No matter which scenario you follow, military intervention in iran means oil goes through the roof and you stand a fair chance of igniting a regional conflict if not a global one.

    If iran is attacked by the west i would be shocked if one of their first responses isnt to initiate a substantial strike on the saudi oil complex ,the straits of hormuz, and possibly the suez.

  56. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gator even if I had it i would not do it, just could not bring myself to pay that much. But I guess it isn’t that crazy my house up here is at 16k, with mediocre schools at best & in the hinterland.

  57. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot 51 shelf full of whiskey, sounds good.

  58. NJGator says:

    Mike 57 – It’s over 4000SF of house on the most prestigious block in town. Yes, the taxes are crazy, but for Glen Ridge they are not terribly out of whack.

    We have friends in town on the northside who have a house half the size on a lot that is less than half of this property and they pay $17k.

  59. Libtard says:

    Sure…Just shoot me the local and I’ll see what I can come up with. My guess is that hotels in Clot’s area are never terribly booked up.

  60. Mr Hyde says:


    I am just an armchair general, but it would appear that the iranian cat is long out of the bag in regards to nukes.

    Israel using a “neutron bomb” enhanced radiation weapon could easily set them up for being vilified especially if they do so as a first strike.

    In that case iran could decide to just load up a bunch of fine plutonium or other nastier short lived isotopes and spread them by detonating an IRBM with the payload and using and air detonating over israel

  61. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gator I guess if you compare other houses it is inline. The point is & I know you agree they are all to f**ken high in this state.

  62. Mr Hyde says:

    Party at Clots office!!!!!

  63. NJGator says:

    Totally agree Mike. By next week, Stu is probably going to want to put me on the Martz bus to commute into the city from Pocono Criminal Place.

  64. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [26, 29] hyde

    I will call for a GTG sometime in about a month, so I can be up on the new health care legislation.

    Lot of folks been asking tax questions and I want to be able to accomodate them within reason.

    Morristown is a bit far, but doable for me.

  65. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket we doing scenarios again, well I’m up for it. I like the heavy conventional strikes followed by helo in of special ops teams to get the job done. Of course a lot of those guys are buying a one way ticket. Press could not black ball them on that.
    “Israel bombed strategic targets today % then sent in special forces to assure destruction of Iranian nuclear threat.”

    Of course we would have to help, refueling,launch points for ground strike force close & all that .

  66. NJGator says:

    All Hype – Since you are an afficinado of Montclair pizza, have you been here yet? BYOB and they will have their first night of live blues on their outdoor patio tomorrow night. We’re likely going.

  67. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    Brigadoon works for me!!!!!!!!! I can walk there.

    [34] pain

    “I actually like the idea of a NJRER skeet shoot.”

    Yeah, I get to try out the new Mossberg!

  68. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom Morris is an hour for me, will do.

  69. borat obama says:


  70. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gator 64 LMAO!

  71. All "H-Train" Hype says:


    Have not been there yet. I am going to check the place out although it may not be tomorrow nite. Thanks for the information.

  72. still_looking says:

    Gator, 53

    Hubby was a doc, she was a nurse.


  73. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [main story]

    One thing I expected to see, and still expect, is a big jump in muni debt, with no paydowns on notes, just rollovers.

    For my part, I have not seen a significant ramp up in muni debt except in one area. Seems like every little authority and town is borrowing money to fund solar panel installations.

    I am only tangentially a bond guy, so if anyone knows different do correct me, but I think that there is a state ceiling on muni bond/note issuances. Don’t know if there is an override, but it is a point worth investigating to see what the limits (if any) are, and what towns are near or at the limits.

    In the future, realtors can point out schools, access to trains, and public debt at only 60% of the state ceiling.

  74. Mikeinwaiting says:

    SL you doc’s get all the good houses.

  75. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [69] mike

    Where the hell are you, Delaware Water Gap?

  76. NJGator says:

    All Hype 72 – One of our favorites. Pizza is great. Stu is a fan of the BBQ served over french fries. And the mac and cheese is awesome too.

    Owners are real nice. They do weekly live blues all summer long.

  77. Yikes says:

    veto that – Lawrence Yun says:
    April 5, 2010 at 11:53 am

    amazing to think this market will possibly be pumped up to Dow 18K.

    i’m hoping to ride it all the way up and then make the move into physical metals and canned food products exactly one minute before it all comes crashing down.

    if it goes up to 18k, enjoy the ride. dont hate the player, hate the game.

    (omg, do i sound like john?)

  78. NJGator says:

    SL 73 – And 5 greedy kids who will probably never agree to a low price on the house?

  79. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Vernon NJ about 7 miles from NY border.
    Would you believe 16k taxes up here.
    Think far north west corner of NJ.

  80. Libtard says:


    I’ve attended lot’s of town council meetings where the bonded debt is often discussed. Never has a ceiling been mentioned. Of course, our old town manager, mayor and his disciples (I dubbed them the Fried Five and it’s sticking on local blogs) feel our debt is actually manageable. We are now at 220 million which works out to 17K per family or 12K per person. Of course our local voluntary capital finance committee has labeled our unfixed debt a ‘ticking time bomb’ to which the Fried five has outright denied. One of the councilors, has even claimed the math is wrong in the capital debt report, but would not say which numbers when questioned further.

    Good ole progressive Montclair. Praising diversity at every moment, but secretly taxing ‘them’ out of town.

  81. Libtard says:

    Why did I put an apostrophe in lots?

  82. Libtard says:

    Here’s a good idea for a GTG:

    Iran and the United States: Can a 30-Year Psychosis Be Overcome?
    Thurday, April 15

    Explore past and current relationships between the United States and Iran with an award-winning veteran journalist and long-standing Iran expert, who was an eyewitness to the turmoil on the streets of Tehran following the spring 2009 elections. He will examine the roots of the antagonism and misunderstanding between the two countries, the effect of President Obama’s outreach to Tehran, the internal divisions in Tehran over opening to America, and the prospects of a breakthrough that would replace a dangerous antagonism with some level of normality. There will be ample opportunity for discussion and questions and answers.

    This lecture is sponsored by Friends of the Adult School of Montclair.

    Roger Cohen, foreign affairs correspondent, New York Times journalist since 1990; currently Op-Ed columnist for foreignInternational Herald Tribune and The New York Times; former foreign editor andThe New York Times; former foreign correspondent, Wall Street Journal.

    1 Thursday, 7:30-9pm, April 15 @ Montclair High School

  83. RayC says:

    Libtard says:
    April 6, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Why did I put an apostrophe in lots?

    Because you had many, an excess, an abundance of them.

  84. Final Doom says:

    lib (81)-

    Yeah. Montclair needs to be transformed into a peaceful haven for the rich who occasionally feel white guilt. The little people always mess up the vibe, so they must be gently encouraged to go elsewhere.

    Also see: Aspen, Princeton, Brigadoon, Summit.

  85. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Stu 83 is this guy from the it’s all our fault & they are good school or is he on the level.

  86. Final Doom says:

    lib (82)-

    Your substandard NJ public education.

    “Why did I put an apostrophe in lots?”

  87. scribe says:

    I wanna know … when are you guys going to take me to the range and show me how to shoot something?

    ah, spring is in the air …

  88. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [82] libtard

    “Why did I put an apostrophe in lots?”

    The NJEA told you to?

    Seriously, I think I will ask the bond guys today about it. I could research it but I have enough to do over the next couple of days.

    as for Iran, I doubt I would take Roger Cohen’s word for much of anything, let alone international foreign relations.

    I am constantly dismayed at how we now treat the reporters as the experts. These are the same people who couldn’t handle the “hard” majors in college, but could write reasonably well (though less and less well over the years, I observe). They trolled and wrote, yet because they observed, they are experts?

    By that standard, if I watch a couple of open heart surgeries, that qualifies me as a surgeon.

  89. Final Doom says:

    lib (83)-

    Mr. Cohen’s CV unfortunately omitted “self-loathing Jew”.

  90. Final Doom says:

    We should do Israel a solid and carpet nuke the entire Islamic world.

    Then we could set about opening a dialogue of understanding with the 14 crispy survivors.

  91. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [88] scribe

    Sure, I will start you on the Ruger 10-22 and my old Marlin. .22LR is cheap so shoot all you want.

    For pistol, I think you can handle the Makarov. It is a lot smaller and has less kick than a conventional 9MM. And it will give you that James Bond look.

  92. Final Doom says:

    F the Bond look. I want killpower.

  93. Mikeinwaiting says:

    I guess my 86 is answered , I’ll pass.
    Maybe I should go & shout some right wing stuff so they can throw me out, just for fun.

  94. Final Doom says:

    We built nuclear weapons to use them. Time to get busy.

    Besides, after we use them, we can get to building newer and better ones.

  95. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Tax News of the Day

    From our new lords and masters at the IRS:

    “New Jersey Severe Storm and Flooding Victims Have Until May 11 to File Their Tax Returns

    NJ-2010-32, April 5, 2010

    New Jersey — Victims of severe storms, flooding, mudslides and landslides beginning March 12 in New Jersey may qualify for tax relief from the Internal Revenue Service.

    The President has declared Atlantic, Bergen, Cape May, Essex, Gloucester, Mercer, Middlesex, Monmouth, Morris, Passaic, Somerset, and Union counties federal disaster areas qualifying for individual assistance.

    As a result, the IRS is postponing until May 11 certain deadlines for taxpayers who reside or have a business in the disaster area. This includes the April 15 deadline for filing 2009 individual income tax returns, making income tax payments and making 2009 contributions to an individual retirement account (IRA).

    In addition, the IRS will waive the failure to deposit penalties for employment and excise deposits due on or after March 12 and on or before March 29, as long as the deposits were made by March 29.

    If an affected taxpayer receives a penalty notice from the IRS, the taxpayer should call the telephone number on the notice to have the IRS abate any interest and any late filing or late payment penalties that would otherwise apply. Penalties or interest will be abated only for taxpayers who have an original or extended filing, payment or deposit due date, including an extended filing or payment due date, that falls within the Postponement Period.

    IRS computer systems automatically identify taxpayers located in the covered disaster area and apply automatic filing and payment relief. Affected taxpayers who reside or have a business located outside the covered disaster area must call the IRS disaster hotline at 1-866-562-5227 to request tax relief.

    Covered Disaster Area

    The counties listed above constitutes a covered disaster area for purposes of Treas. Reg. § 301.7508A-1(d)(2) and are entitled to the relief detailed below.

    Affected Taxpayers

    Taxpayers considered to be affected taxpayers eligible for the postponement of time to file returns, pay taxes and perform other time-sensitive acts are those taxpayers listed in Treas. Reg. § 301.7508A-1(d)(1), and include individuals who live, and businesses whose principal place of business is located, in the covered disaster area. Taxpayers not in the covered disaster area, but whose records necessary to meet a deadline listed in Treas. Reg. § 301.7508A-1(c) are in the covered disaster area, are also entitled to relief. In addition, all relief workers affiliated with a recognized government or philanthropic organization assisting in the relief activities in the covered disaster area and any individual visiting the covered disaster area who was killed or injured as a result of the disaster are entitled to relief.

    Grant of Relief

    Under section 7508A, the IRS gives affected taxpayers until May 11, 2010, to file most tax returns (including individual, corporate, and estate and trust income tax returns; partnership returns, S corporation returns, and trust returns; estate, gift, and generation-skipping transfer tax returns; and employment and certain excise tax returns), or to make tax payments, including estimated tax payments, that have either an original or extended due date occurring on or after March 12, 2010, and on or before May 11, 2010.

    The IRS also gives affected taxpayers until May 11 to perform other time-sensitive actions described in Treas. Reg. § 301.7508A-1(c)(1) and Rev. Proc. 2007-56, 2007-34 I.R.B. 388 (August 20, 2007), that are due to be performed on or after March 12 and on or before May 11.

    This relief also includes the filing of Form 5500 series returns, in the manner described in section 8 of Rev. Proc. 2007-56. The relief described in section 17 of Rev. Proc. 2007-56, pertaining to like-kind exchanges of property, also applies to certain taxpayers who are not otherwise affected taxpayers and may include acts required to be performed before or after the period above.

    The postponement of time to file and pay does not apply to information returns in the W-2, 1098, 1099 series, or to Forms 1042-S or 8027. Penalties for failure to timely file information returns can be waived under existing procedures for reasonable cause. Likewise, the postponement does not apply to employment and excise tax deposits. The IRS, however, will abate penalties for failure to make timely employment and excise deposits due on or after March 12, 2010, and on or before March 29, 2010, provided the taxpayer made these deposits by March 29.

    Casualty Losses

    Affected taxpayers in a federally declared disaster area have the option of claiming disaster-related casualty losses on their federal income tax return for either this year or last year. Claiming the loss on an original or amended return for last year will get the taxpayer an earlier refund, but waiting to claim the loss on this year’s return could result in a greater tax saving, depending on other income factors.

    Individuals may deduct personal property losses that are not covered by insurance or other reimbursements. For details, see Form 4684 and its instructions.

    Affected taxpayers claiming the disaster loss on last year’s return should put the Disaster Designation “New Jersey/Severe Storms and Flooding” at the top of the form so that the IRS can expedite the processing of the refund.

    Other Relief

    The IRS will waive the usual fees and expedite requests for copies of previously filed tax returns for affected taxpayers. Taxpayers should put the assigned Disaster Designation in red ink at the top of Form 4506, Request for Copy of Tax Return, or Form 4506-T, Request for Transcript of Tax Return, as appropriate, and submit it to the IRS.

    Affected taxpayers who are contacted by the IRS on a collection or examination matter should explain how the disaster impacts them so that the IRS can provide appropriate consideration to their case.

    Taxpayers may download forms and publications from the official IRS Web site,, or order them by calling 1-800-TAX-FORM (1-800-829-3676). The IRS toll-free number for general tax questions is 1-800-829-1040.”,,id=220998,00.html

  96. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot 95 shame to waste a perfectly good nuke just waiting around to be obsolete as we build better ones. Plenty of people who want to do use harm, it’s a twofer.

  97. Mikeinwaiting says:

    96 Sh*T my county is not on the list. No gov money for me.

  98. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom scribe

    Start with a nice revolver for feel and simplicity then perhaps a SIG or Glock 9mm. I like a .38 S&W revolver myself as a failsafe backup.

    Follow that with the 10/22 as nom suggested for intro to a rifle and then a 20ga shotgun.

    That should make for a full day.

  99. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [97] mike

    Perhaps you haven’t heard, but Obama announced yesterday that we won’t be upgrading or modernizing our nukes.

    Further, we will implement new restrictions on nuclear weapons use, and publish our use policies.

    This coincides with our new treaty with Russia to reduce our stockpile.

    Remember all the talk of Carter’s 2nd term? Carter was a raving hawk compared to Obama.

    Most americans think that when a treaty is signed, it is a done deal. We all know that it is not. My prediction? Never gets past the senate. They need 2/3 to ratify a treaty and they won’t get all the democrats, let alone any republicans. But Obama gets to play to his base, and paint the GOP as warmongers. But unless he is getting some major concessions somewhere, I think that this symbolic position-taking is dangerous for him.

  100. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [99] hyde

    Agreed. Scribe can try the .38 but it has more of a kick.

    I don’t have a 20 guage but that is a good call.

  101. jpl says:

    Hey Gator-

    Is 404 Ridgewood the old clubhouse for the GRCC?

    I know the old GRCC pool and pool house are right next door (406?), but I dont recall if 404 was part of the GRCC, or the address 2 properties to the north was.

  102. yo'me says:

    Duke vs Butler oh what a game!!

  103. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom 100
    “Further, we will implement new restrictions on nuclear weapons use, and publish our use policies.”

    WTF are they thinking. My god there idiots. Let’s just give them our launch codes & be done with it.

  104. Mr Hyde says:


    Re .38

    I figure its good to at least try a larger caliber with more kick just so that there is some familiarity and it takes away the apprehension of the unknown.

  105. Libtard says:


    Talk to me about this filing delay potential. I filed my FED taxes electronically with a e-check withdrawal from my checking account to occur on 4/15. Same with NJ, although I am paper filing. They have a website to perform the E-Check as well as I have set up my NJ estimated payments for 2010. I have not found such a service for my federal estimated tax payments.

    With that said, can I simply delay my payment until May 11th in both of these cases? I know how to adjust my NJ payment, but I’d have to dig to delay my federal payment.

  106. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “if it goes up to 18k, enjoy the ride. dont hate the player, hate the game.”

    Yikes, The IRA loves the players and the game.

  107. scribe says:

    Nom & Hyde

    It’s a date.

    I will pay for your ammo.

    Clot, you coming?

  108. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [104] mike

    Hope and Change, remember?

  109. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [106] libtard

    I can’t advise you, but I did publish the entire release.

    Generally, it isn’t wise to go beyond the scope of agency guidance, so if your topic isn’t covered, I would assume that there is no change. If you are wrong, you are in the penalty, even if you reasonably relied on the release.

  110. Libtard says:

    Well I found the federal e-check site.

    EFTPS, in case anyone else is interested.

  111. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom 109 Yea ***##! **#@@! and they thought Bush was bad, this guy is making him look good.

  112. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    This is not a new tactic, and I expect to see a lot more of this in the future:

    “CREW Asks IRS to Probe Freedom Alliance,
    Questions Group’s Ties to Hannity, North

    Citizens for Responsibility in Ethics in Washington March 29 asked the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the activities of Freedom Alliance, a public charity with ties to Oliver North and conservative talk show host Sean Hannity.
    A letter to the IRS alleged that Freedom Alliance may have violated its tax-exempt status by engaging in partisan political activities.

    Freedom Alliance describes itself as a tax code Section 501(c)(3) public charity that “encourages military service and promotes a strong national defense.”

    In addition to the IRS complaint, CREW filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission against Hannity and the “Freedom Concerts” he sponsors, claiming that Hannity engaged in illegal and deceptive marketing practices by suggesting that all money generated by ticket sales for the Freedom Concerts he sponsors each summer goes to scholarships for children of killed and wounded service members. Instead the letter said Premiere Marketing stages the concerts for Hannity, and donates “an unknown portion” of the concert proceeds to the Freedom Alliance. The FTC letter also includes allegations against Freedom Alliance and North, CREW’s website said.

    Alliance Often ‘Political in Nature.’
    In its letter to IRS, CREW said the Freedom Alliance website contains “extensive commentary that at times is political in nature.” Freedom Alliance hosts the annual Freedom Cruise events, which often feature seminars on political topics, presented by speakers “that are virtually exclusively identified with conservative political causes,” CREW said.

    The group has also sold its mailing list to “conservative marketing firms with political clients,” CREW said, and “appears to maintain connections with Team America—an organization that appears to be predominantly active through its political action committee (PAC).”

    Tax-exempt organizations are prohibited from explicitly endorsing political candidates for office. But CREW’s letter pointed out that “campaign intervention” as IRS defines it, “can also be more subtle.” Charities are not allowed to send letters condemning candidates “for a particular ideological view,” selectively invite candidates to speak at hosted events, or make their mailing list selectively available to one political party, to name a few restrictions.

    Freedom Alliance Denies Claims

    Freedom Alliance completely denied the claims, in a March 29 statement posted on its website by President Tom Kilgannon.

    “Today, Freedom Alliance was attacked with baseless complaints,” Kilgannon said. He added that there was “absolutely no merit to the scurrilous charges launched against Freedom Alliance” from one of the “most left-wing organizations in the country. . . . .”

    BTW, this is going to be one of the new battlegrounds. Don’t simply beat your opponent, but try to put his apparatus out of business.

    Politics as total war. Won’t be long before we go nuclear in a metaphorical sense.

  113. poor guy says:


    what do you think of the Nishuane park area of Montclair? We have seen some cheap but nice houses over there. Is it safe? Is commute/walking to the Bay station an issue? Taxes are not bad either.

  114. Mr Hyde says:


    What is the political equivalent of going nuclear?

  115. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [116] hyde

    Don’t know if there are any strategic parallels, but some tactical techniques come to mind, such as directing agencies to harass opponents and their supporters; pushing tax and entitlement policies to benefit supporters and burden opponents; attack opponents’ livelihoods by trying to get them barred from certain employment or contracts; etc.

    Now I know that these are being done currently, but I guess the nuclear option would be one in which the admin. risks a scorched earth problem, complete with potential backlash.

    Heathcare is a potential mushroom cloud happening as the current plan will, in all probability, drive up costs and lessen availability for certain constituencies. The result will be new legislation toward single payer, or other legislation, that will require providers to be, in effect, nonprofits (or worse, indentured servants).

    Nationalizing student loans had very little of a ripple effect, but more legislation in healthcare (and the bill just signed is clearly an interim measure) could result in nationlizing our entire delivery system, and that would be seismic on a nuclear level.

  116. NJGator says:

    Poor Guy 114 – Our friends that are closest to Nishuane live on Franklin, Alden and High. All are happy with the neighborhood. That area should be safe, but it could vary street by street. Feel free to get my email from Grim if you’d like to ask about specific locations.

    The walk to Bay Street can be far from there, but there is also the option of the bus, or if you are close to Ridgewood Ave, then there’s a jitney to the Glen Ridge station. I think the jitney is free.

    NB – some of the sketchiest areas of Montclair are right near the Bay Street station.

  117. NJGator says:

    Poor Guy – also Glen Ridge train fares are lower than Bay Street’s. Currently Glen Ridge is $135/month to NYP and Bay is $154. The new fare proposal has GR increasing to $169 and Bay Street to $193.

    Non-resident train parking is available at Glen Ridge for $600/year at Hillside lot. In Bloomfield, daily parking 12 hour is available for $3/day. Daily spaces are usually avilable as long as you get there for the 7:51AM train to NY. There are additional spots closer to the station that are about twice the price that can be used as a fall back if the cheaper lot is full. I’ve only had to park in the premium spots if I’ve gotten to the station very late.

  118. NJGator says:

    How popular do you think this mom is going to be at weekend soccer?

    And I am sure it’s just me, but what exactly is health promoting about a snack that is made with eggs, heavy cream and tons of cheese?

  119. Libtard says:

    My lord. Whatever happened to orange slices and water at soccer halftimes.

  120. NJGator says:

    Lib – I really hope her kid is not on Lil Gator’s team!

  121. Libtard says:

    I’ll snag some of them muffins at half time.

  122. Essex says:

    Guns and Butter.

  123. chicagofinance says:

    I am responding out of sequence, but I will reiterate, the stuff posted there should not spark outrage. I would view it more as an excuse for the disgruntled, shamed, or emotionally burdened to vent their angst. How is this information any different than what has occurred for the prior 100 years?….only one material distinction; there is a conduit for mass socialization.

    The mechanisms in the capital markets are identical to 2004-2007, or any other point in time. I described it 5 years ago…..the hose is on and money is being made. When the valve is shut off, the opportunity is gone…period. As a result, those with the ability to manipulate will continue to bleed it dry until stopped or destroyed…..

    Zero Value, Trenton, The Guiding Light, Jerry Springer….W is TF difference……

    Final Doom says:
    April 5, 2010 at 10:02 am

    al (22)-

    I posted some CFTC stuff here that I read at ZH, but chifi says that ZH is a disreputable source.

    Yeah. I guess a blog whose content is driven by Wall St insiders and whose posters and contributors are mostly financial types can’t be trusted when it comes to getting the lowdown on money, finance and the economy.

  124. chicagofinance says:

    clot: To be clear, I encourage to sh!t all over me all day long. You are a healer for people and if you need to vent to deal with working in the salt mines….so be it.

  125. Libtard says:

    Tons of people swear by the Times, the WSJ and the NY Post. All have their agendas that cater to their individual readerships. Zero Hedge is no different. As long as one is aware of this, then no harm is done in sharing it. Though, I must emphasize that citing the source is usually more valuable than any information in the article.

  126. chicagofinance says:

    APRIL 6, 2010

    Realty Check: ‘Extreme Makeover’ Downsizes Its Dream Homes
    Producers of Hit TV Show See Bad Loans, Dashed Dreams, Default


    The interior of Nichol Okvath’s Gilbert, Ariz., house, which she is in danger of losing after not paying the mortgage for more than a year.

    The house at 10512 Baldy Mountain Rd. in Sandpoint, Idaho, looks like just another vacant foreclosed home. Some appliances, a bathroom mirror and even the hot tub are missing. The dining room of the three-bedroom house has water damage.

    But this isn’t your run-of-the-mill problem house. Call it an Extreme Foreclosure. The 3,678-square-foot McMansion is a product of the popular “Extreme Makeover: Home Edition” reality television show. It isn’t the only “Extreme” home to fall on hard times.

    Each week, an average 9.4 million viewers tune in to ABC-TV for what, over seven seasons, has become a classic formula: Find a struggling family with a heart-tugging story and send them on vacation as an army of volunteers work frantically to replace an existing home with a much nicer and bigger one in just 106 hours. Each episode ends with a dramatic tear-filled tour of the new home, packed with donated furnishings, and outsize extras like a carousel or bowling lanes.

    But after the cameras have gone, another trend has been developing: Homeowners struggle to keep up with their expensive new digs. In many cases, the bigger, more lavish homes have come with bigger, more lavish utility bills. And bigger tax assessments. Some homeowners have tapped the equity of their super-sized homes only to fall behind on the higher mortgage payments.

    The show’s producers say they are aware of the problem and are making changes appropriate to current economic reality: downsizing.

    Back in the boom, the makeovers got a little out of hand because of competition among home builders aware of the free publicity that came with the show and who tried to outdo previous projects. These days, the show is backing away from the boom-era showpieces. We “scaled back,” says Conrad Ricketts, an executive producer for the show created and produced by Endemol USA.

    The average size of current makeovers is 2,800 to 3,000 square feet. A 2005 episode featured a house in Lake City, Ga., that became a 5,300-square-foot English castle boasting five bedrooms, seven bathrooms, five fireplaces and an outdoor kitchen. These days, the houses appear more subdued, eschewing over-the-top amenities.

    A swimming pool is no longer a must, unless it could be used for therapy. When pools are built, the show explores a well system to help reduce water usage and costs. Lavish landscaping is out, working with the local environment is in. “We’re not going to New Mexico, the desert, and trying to put sod down,” Mr. Ricketts says.

    Tracy Hutson, an interior designer who has been with “Extreme Makeover” since the beginning, says homes are receiving more earth-friendly products, such as low water-flow toilets and solar panels, curbing the giant electricity bills that caused a hardship for some families. “I think our hearts were in the right place, but we just got carried way,” says Ms. Hutson. “It can be extreme without being the biggest house you’ve ever seen.”

    Back in 2003, the 59-year-old Mr. Ricketts, who has worked in movies and TV for nearly three decades, was looking to develop a home-remodeling series. As he traveled down a “nice street” in Santa Clarita, Calif., he came upon a broken-down house that didn’t seem to fit in. He learned the family had a child battling leukemia, leaving little money for maintenance. “I knew at that moment it was the soul of the TV show,” Mr. Ricketts recalls.

    The California family’s home was remodeled for the first episode airing later that year. But soon, remodeling gave way to razing and rebuilding houses, making for more dramatic television during the housing boom. As the show became more popular, donations flowed and builders got more and more ambitious.

    It has since become part of pop culture, and, while plenty of makeover shows have come and gone, it remains the most ambitious, well-known and generous of the genre.

    It’s also important to ABC when it comes to ratings and selling ads: Among broadcast networks, the show ranks second in the key female demographics and tops with children ages 2 to 11.

    Huber Engineered Woods LLC has donated its premium floor, wall and roof products for 25 houses. While TV viewers don’t always see the brand, “connecting with builders and framers on job sites” has led to increased awareness and additional sales, says Matt O’Brien, vice president of commercial operations.

    For many families featured on the program, the Extreme Makeover experience has been a dream come true. But for some, the experience has been financially stressful.

    Several owners have sought loan modifications to reduce their payments in order to stay in their homes, lenders say. Some families seek a quick-fix by trying to sell. But because Extreme Makeovers tend to be big, fancy residences plopped into working-class or rural communities, the houses can be a hard sell.

    The house in Sandpoint, which was owned by Eric Hebert, appears to be the first Extreme Makeover home to actually fall into foreclosure, in October. Mr. Hebert did not answer requests for comment. But he told a local television station last year that “the biggest mistake I think that I made was I took too much money out on the house thinking that I was going to have a job, you know, in the future.”

    Write to Dawn Wotapka at

  127. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Chi, I think mark twain said it best:

    “If you don’t read zero-hedged, you’re uninformed. If you read zero-hedged, you’re mis-informed.”

  128. chicagofinance says:

    APRIL 6, 2010
    Extreme Stories


    Some families featured on “Extreme Makeover: Home Edition” find themselves in trouble once the cameras leave town. Some struggle to pay the upkeep on their expensive new homes while others tap the equity in their homes and end up with bigger mortgages that are hard to maintain. Some seek a quick-fix by trying to sell. But because Extreme Makeovers tend to be big, fancy residences plopped in working-class or rural communities, the houses can be a hard sell. (See related article.) “Like many homeowners in the nation, Extreme Makeover: Home Edition families aren’t immune to the current state of the U.S. economy,” said a spokeswoman for the show. Here are five tales:
    Eric Hebert and Family

    Following his sister’s sudden death in 2004, Eric Hebert relocated to Sandpoint to raise her young twins. In an early 2006 episode of the show, the family home, described as a basement with a roof, was replaced with a multi-story house resembling a mountain lodge. Tyson Foods Inc. threw in a $50,000 check for Mr. Hebert and his family.

    “We’ll definitely be able to call this our home for ever and ever and ever,” Mr. Hebert said when he saw his new home for the first time.

    Public records show Mr. Hebert’s original mortgage was for $110,000 in September 2004. In January 2006–just before the show aired–he refinanced for $250,000. About a year later, came another refinance with Wells Fargo for $382,500. A notice of default was recorded in January 2009 and the home was foreclosed on in October—the first known foreclosure in the Extreme series’ history.

    Mr. Hebert did not respond to multiple requests for comment.

    Some local residents are angry over what became of the community project. “It’s kind of like we have egg on our face,” said Sydney Icardo, a realtor with Century 21 RiverStone, who cut down aspen trees used to decorate Mr. Hebert’s bedroom. “It cuts deep. We’re a tight community.”
    The Woffords

    In September of 2004, just as the real-estate bubble was heating up, an episode featuring the Wofford family, a widowed father raising eight children, showed a roughly 1,200-square-foot home replaced with a 4,337-square-foot model in Encinitas, Calif.

    Brian Wofford reportedly paid $186,700 on the home in 1989. But, after tapping the equity and two additional liens, his debt had ballooned above $700,000. In 2005, OneWest Bank originated a new loan for $735,000, according to a spokeswoman.

    As he faced foreclosure late last year, Mr. Wofford entered a three-month trial modification and was recently offered a permanent modification. Mr. Wofford did not return several requests for comment.
    The Harpers

    Later in the 2004-2005 season, the Harper family’s makeover in Lake City, Ga. aired, showing a modest home with septic-tank issues replaced by a 5,300-square-footer resembling an English castle.
    [Harpers] Associated Press

    The Harpers looking at their new home for the first time.

    The makeover came with a paid mortgage and scholarship fund for the children. But the Harpers used the home as collateral to fund a construction business that failed. As foreclosure loomed last March, the family filed for bankruptcy, halting the process.

    The family recently sold raffle tickets via the Internet–with the home as the prize–though it’s unclear if the raffle was ever held or if anyone actually won the home. A foreclosure sale is scheduled for April 6.
    The Okvaths

    After the Harpers’ show came the Okvaths. This family–daughter Kassandra was recovering from cancer–received a 5,346-square-foot home with six bedrooms, a movie theater and carousel in the backyard.

    In 2006, Nichol Okvath and her husband, who lost his job as a truck driver, took out a $200,000 home-equity loan “to survive off of,” says Ms. Okvath. Next came a $400,000 loan to pay off the first one and medical bills. Ms. Okvath says she hasn’t made the $3,056 monthly mortgage payment since December of 2008.

    The property is on the market for $599,000, slashed from $1.3 million a year ago. But there have been no offers: The area has an 18-month supply of homes in that price range and the Okvaths’ Spanish-style mansion seems out of place with its modest surroundings, said Tony Moore, the Keller Williams Realty agent who is handling the listing.
    The Byers

    The Byers in Corvallis, Ore. also had a daughter with cancer. The family, which has been in the early stages of foreclosure, is looking to sell their newly built 4,000-square-foot home with 23-foot ceilings. Even as the home was revealed in 2007, Rob Byers, who made $40,000 running his own maintenance business last year, worried about the increased costs.

    In their previous 1,500-square foot fixer-upper with widespread mold issues, the monthly power bills were as high as $150. The new home’s first bill came in at $600. Property taxes jumped $300 a month to $450, while insurance climbed $75 to $120 a month. The new house also came with a $75 monthly tab for salt to soften well water.

    They have taken in several roommates to defray costs and cut back on heat. That wasn’t enough: The Byers refinanced two years ago, taking out a $294,000-loan that more than doubled the monthly mortgage from $1,100 to $2,300. (The second loan paid off the existing mortgages and medical-related debt.)

    The house was recently put on the on the market for $739,000.

    “It was a heart-wrenching decision, but the writing’s kind of on the wall,” Mr. Byers said. “I’ve tried everything I can to afford it.”

    They plan to build a smaller house in the area.

    Chris Hardesty contributed to this report.

    Write to Dawn Wotapka at

  129. Final Doom says:

    gator (120)-

    A proper footballer would gun down a couple of Smithwicks and an amphetamine.

  130. Final Doom says:

    chi (125)-

    The real problem is that we have, by and large, lost our ability to be outraged.

    “I am responding out of sequence, but I will reiterate, the stuff posted there should not spark outrage.”

  131. scribe says:

    name the date, time, and firing range…

    GTG afterwards in a serious drinking establishment?

  132. Final Doom says:

    chi (128)-

    What a surprise: sometimes, people fall into trouble because they are stupid and/or deadbeats.

    In a way, Extreme Makeovers is nothing more than a variation on the idea of housing projects, circa the mid-1960s.

    When you create a mechanism by which you deny people their inalienable right to fail, you not only patronize and dehumanize them…but your charity becomes the vehicle for their eventual failure.

  133. Jim says:

    Mr Hyde says:
    April 6, 2010 at 11:21 am

    What is the political equivalent of going nuclear?

    Going Sozialist.

  134. Final Doom says:


    Nah. Going soci@list is way too passive/depressive. Implicit is that everyone gets in line and trudges single-file toward their imminent demise.

    I’d look to Argentina or Chile, circa Allende/Pinochet for a definition of going nuclear politically.

  135. Final Doom says:

    A nation that can support a manic-depressive like Eva Peron as its leader is one rung below Third Reich-type stuff, IMO.

  136. freedy says:

    Any bets yet on which Casino in AC will close
    for good first? Trumps, Hilton, Cesars

    They killed the industry in NJ

  137. Jim says:

    Someone please explain to me why, during the Great Recession, the President is revamping the US nuclear policy, starting national health care, gays in the military policy, etc. Shouldn’t he be trying to do something related to the recession like working on getting Americans jobs, monetary policy, etc. Please explain as his actions make no sense.

  138. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    ” Please explain as his actions make no sense.”

    What you talking about? He told you his actions saved the economy. Geithner just said we have reached a sustainable recovery. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:)

  139. Final Doom says:

    We’ll be on the way to recovery once Eraserhead is hanging by his neck in the public square.

  140. Final Doom says:

    Although I wouldn’t mind if FL borrowed Erasherhead in order to test “Ol’ Sparky” out on him.

  141. House Whine says:

    139- Oh- I so agree with you! I have been saying the same thing for almost a year now. Is he just paying lip service to the issue? As I recall last year he had a ONE day job summit in D.C. which was just a show. What could possibly be solved in one day! I still say that based on my personal experiences with family members that the more “intellectual” they are the more removed they are from the distresses and concerns of most of America. They do truly live in their ivory towers. I used to be forgiving of them but now I am just ticked off.

  142. Mr Hyde says:


    Let them eat cake!

  143. Shore Guy says:

    What the heck? Are the airlines going to start charging us for flying while wearing clothes (it increases the weight of the planes and makes it easire to hide a weapon?)?

    (Reuters) – Privately held Spirit Airlines said on Tuesday it will start charging as much as $45 for carry-on bags.


    Spirit said the new charge will help the airline lower base air fares. The fee applies to carry-ons placed in overhead bins, while personal items placed under the seat remain free.

    Spirit will charge $45 for these bags at the gate and $30 when paid in advance. Members of Spirit’s frequent flier program will be charged $20 for carry-on bags if paid in advance

  144. Shore Guy says:

    “Geithner just said we have reached a sustainable recovery. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:)”

    I guess then that any new downturns are all B.O.’s problem then. No more blaming the shrub admin.

  145. Final Doom says:

    whine (143)-

    Vote with a bullet.

    Probably the only form of communication these pseudo-intellectual eggheads will ever understand.

  146. Jim says:

    Sorry, my mistake. I didn’t get the memo that the recession is over. I’m still convinced that if this guy gets a second term he is going to continue doing severe damage. Americans aren’t the smartest people in the world so his chances of getting re-elected are probably pretty good.

  147. Final Doom says:

    It’s all too far gone.

    Burn the mf’er down and start over.

  148. Juice Springsteen HEHEHE says:

    I’ll say this much, the prez ain’t looking too healthy these days.

  149. Mr Hyde says:

    But Jim,

    Our president won the exalted Nobel Peace Prize!!!!

  150. Painhrtz says:

    Shore as a frequent flyer if you saw some of the crap people bring on as carry on these days I wouldn’t blame the airlines one bit to start charging. Our parents would have called it luggage.

    One of the reasons I make sure to keep my elite status up so I can get on the plane before the hoards of carry ons eat up the overhead compartments.

  151. Mr Hyde says:


    if your serious, perhaps a mini GTG at the following location:

    it could avoid some potential liability/organizational issues as opposed to a regular meet up at a range with personal weapons.

  152. poor guy says:

    THANKS for your Montclair insights. I’ll try to get in touch with you-we are planning a new round of houses…

  153. RentinginNJ says:

    (Reuters) – Privately held Spirit Airlines said on Tuesday it will start charging as much as $45 for carry-on bags.

    The other airlines will follow. Nobody wants to be first with this kind of thing, but once it happens, the rest will fold like a cheap suit.

    At first, the other airlines will trumpet their generosity, “Carry-on bags are still free at Happy Airlines”.

    But as more airlines follow suit and charge for a carry-on, their tune will change; “Happy Airlines is simply moving its pricing strategy to be more in-line with our competition and the rest of the industry”.

    We will patronizing be told that charging for carry-on bags is a matter of our preference, not their desire to squeeze another dime form us; “Customers have told us that they want to get on and off the plane much quicker…this move will highlight the excellent value we provide in our ‘checked bag services’ and provide a more enjoyable experience for all of our valued customers”.

    Finally, we will be reminded to be grateful for what we have, because they can always take more from us; “Of course, personal items that can fit under your miniscule seat are still free at Friendly Airlines”.

  154. chicagofinance says:

    freedy says:
    April 6, 2010 at 1:26 pm
    Any bets yet on which Casino in AC will close for good first? Trumps, Hilton, Cesars
    They killed the industry in NJ *

    APRIL 6, 2010

    How Odds of Success Got Longer For Morgan Stanley’s Casino Plan

    Financial losses and public opposition to Morgan Stanley’s proposed $2.6 billion Atlantic City casino project left the investment bank with only one option on its big bet: Fold ’em.

    The investment bank last week disclosed that it would take a substantial write-down on the $1.2 billion it already had poured into the construction of the 1,900-room Revel casino in Atlantic City. It plans to put the project up for sale by seeking a bid or through an auction process. The bank decided to give up on the project because it was going to have to take a loss due to the downturn in the Atlantic City casino market.

    But beyond the losses, the bank faced challenges from an odd pair of opponents including a conservative group that opposed a proposal to give the bank state tax incentives, which it said amounted to another bank bailout. The project was also a target of the city’s casino union, which said it could threaten jobs at nearby rivals.

    New Jersey taxpayers don’t appear too fond of the tax incentives for the bank either. A recent poll from Farleigh Dickinson University found that while most people in New Jersey hadn’t heard about the tax issue, 60% opposed the tax rebates when told about them because they amount to a bailout of the Wall Street firm. Some 27% favored them because they would “allow the casino project to go forward and create thousands of jobs in a struggling economy.”

    Controversy over tax incentives was yet another problem weighing on Morgan Stanley’s decision to exit the business. The bank has been in discussions with potential buyers for a few weeks but hasn’t come to a deal, according to a person familiar with the situation.

    The exit puts to an end to a unique chapter in the history of casino projects, industry insiders say: the development of a casino by a major bank.

    It began when Morgan Stanley purchased the land in Atlantic City in 2006 and hired a casino executive to develop a casino there. At the time, Atlantic City appeared on the precipice of significant investment, with several multibillion-dollar projects on the horizon. Of those, only Revel moved forward. Atlantic City revenues, meanwhile, hit their lowest point in a decade last year.

    As the Atlantic City market turned sour, the bank found it difficult to find equity partners that would allow it to decrease its stake. A Morgan Stanley subsidiary retained a 94.5% stake in the company, according to a March filing from the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement to the Casino Control Commission.

    With the credit markets also dry, the project set out more than a year ago to seek financing from the Export-Import Bank of China, said Revel Entertainment Chief Executive Kevin DeSanctis. The company signed a building deal in September that gave a Chinese contractor a majority stake in a joint venture to oversee construction on Revel, contingent on the bank deal.

    Mr. DeSanctis and Morgan Stanley executives continued to seek to raise “well in excess” of $1 billion from the Chinese bank, according to the New Jersey filing. As part of those discussions, John Mack, Morgan Stanley’s former chief executive, spoke to the chairman of the Chinese bank regarding specific loan terms, the filing said.

    In a filing to the Division of Gaming Enforcement in March, Morgan Stanley attorneys said several terms of the loan had not been resolved and an agreement wasn’t “imminent.” However, in an interview Friday, Mr. DeSanctis said, “”We were very, very close” to a deal with the Chinese bank.

    Mr. DeSanctis said he heard about the Morgan Stanley decision to sell Revel on Wednesday and isn’t yet sure how it will affect the negotiations with the Chinese bank. He said he hopes to form a group to make an offer to Morgan Stanley to buy the project but hasn’t yet engaged in talks with the bank.

    Mr. DeSanctis said funds from Morgan Stanley will be sufficient to complete the exterior by summer. The rest of the project hinges on obtaining the additional financing.

    Morgan wanted to exit the project before the exterior of the building is complete, the person close to the situation said. That will allow the new owners to make decisions on design and financing. The bank was driven largely by a financial analysis of the Atlantic City market, this person said.

    But public outcry surrounding the project also had become troubling to the bank, this person said. The project is seeking $350 million in tax reimbursements from the state and local jurisdictions over 20 years under a new economic stimulus provision. The losses, the tax issue and the bank’s concerns that public controversy could grow over the use of a Chinese contractor made the project more trouble than it was worth.

    Unite Here Local 54, the union that represents hotel and casino employees in all 11 existing Atlantic City casinos, had been opposed to the project.

    Local 54 president Bob McDevitt has led opposition to the tax incentives, contending that he fears some casinos that haven’t been renovated in years might close as a result of the Revel opening, which would force the layoff of thousands of workers. The union hadn’t come to a labor agreement yet that would allow it to easily organize workers at Revel. The union was joined by conservative group Americans for Prosperity, which also opposed the incentives.

    Mr. DeSanctis on Friday dismissed the concerns. “The goal of casinos that exist today in Atlantic City should be to maximize their customer base and grow the market,” Mr. DeSanctis said. “This town has to keep growing or this town will face a very difficult future.”

    For two years, Morgan Stanley has met with regulators to figure out a way to avoid going through a cumbersome casino-licensing process. A related issue was to be subject of a hearing Wednesday, but it was tabled after the announcement that the bank wanted to sell. A person familiar with the bank’s thinking said the licensing concerns played no part in the bank’s decision to sell.

    “Morgan Stanley is not, and does not wish to be, in the casino business,” a March filing from a bank attorney to regulators stated.

  155. Final Doom says:

    HE (150)-

    He’s hooked on his own product.

    “I’ll say this much, the prez ain’t looking too healthy these days.”

  156. Final Doom says:

    hyde (153)-

    I say the GTG main event should be a bi vs. Frank duel with pistols.

  157. About charging for carry on bags…I think that I’m just going to layer on about a weeks worth of outfits before boarding. I’m already large as it is. Can’t wait for the reaction when the flight attendants put that free cup of water in my sweaty hands. I’m just not sure how I’m gonna fit my feet into my shoes with seven pairs of socks on?

  158. Final Doom says:

    “Morgan Stanley is not, and does not wish to be, in the casino business”

    This may be the funniest thing ever posted here.

  159. NJGator says:

    Pain 152 – If the airlines didn’t charge for all checked bags, this wouldn’t be such a big problem. Soon we will be at the point where it’s cheaper to bring nothing and to shop at your destination.

    Before we regained our elite status on Continental, Stu went out and got their credit card solely to use for buying Continental tickets – it gives you a free checked bag for each person travelling under the reservation booked with the card. Now with Elite status back, we can each check 2 bags. Otherwise to take a weekend trip with Lil Gator, we are looking at a minimum of $90 in checked bag fees – and that’s if we travel light.

  160. Yikes says:

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    April 5, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    [106] shore

    Just remember to get across the Delaware or Housatonic Rivers before the folks in PA and NE blow the bridges.

    us pa folks are ready to push the button when necessary

  161. NJGator says:

    Poor Guy 154 – Looking forward to it. Good luck.

  162. scribe says:


    PA is more gun-friendly?

    I say ..let’s go …you, me, nom, and anyone else who wants to go …

  163. John says:

    My favorite was ANA airlines at one point had toliets right before boarding and made passengers pee and poop right before getting on plane. Something like three pounds of pee and crap in a person so getting 400 people to unload before take off saves a lot of fuel.

  164. Painhrtz says:

    Gator – totally understand your point of view but they have to pay for fuel. More weight equals increased fuel charge. If they just rolled the bag cost into the ticket nobody would know/care.

    I also contend that it isn’t just the fees, it is the poor handling of luggage and wait time that has people bringing larger and larger carry ons. Nobody wants to wait for luggage when the wait time is almost an hour after a 4 hour flight. It exerts a little bit of personal control over something that is largely out of your hands when you fly.

  165. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [139] jim

    You are laboring under the false premise that Obama represents you. He doesn’t. He represents his core constituency and those who share many of the values of the core constituency. And unlike his predecessors, he is quite open about that.

    Gone are the days when our elected leaders at the statewide or nationwide level purport to represent all the people and a commonly-agreed-upon set of values.

    We are now in a game that is rapidly becoming a zero sum game. Winning in politics thus becomes an exercise in assembling a coalition large enough to beat the opposition, and once beaten, to occupy their lands and plunder their wealth. Thus, winning and losing becomes more important now since it involves actual, meaningful loss or gain, not merely symbolic ones.

    In some respects, this is historically the case, at least at the nation-state level. It is only in recent history that a commonwealth approach prevailed both domestically and internationally. Now we are reverting to form.

    BTW, the fact that our politics and economics are becoming a zero sum game is not lost on the left. They are not that dense. They simply choose to deny that this is the case, and castigate the right for seeing it. In the alternative, they argue that this is indeed the case, but that it is justified by (a) moral authority, and/or (b) reparation for similar treatment by the right.

    And like a tectonic plate on a fault line, pressure is building. When the final piece of schist gives out, then we will see how much pressure has built up, and whether, in the aftermath, we rebuild together or separately.

  166. NJGator says:

    Pain – they should roll the bag cost into the ticket price. It’s annoying when “non-discount” airlines try to nickel and dime you for everything.

    And perhaps the overheads should have space assigned to each individual seat. Really limit what folks are bringing online, so that everyone can bring a reasonable amount.

  167. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [153, 164]

    As far as a shooting gtg is concerned, I don’t know the local ranges. I have been to one in Lahaska, PA, out 202, but that is a haul for some folks.

    They are reasonably inexpensive (I think) and support rifle, pistol and skeet, but you bring your own supplies and the day can drag a bit when the have range downtime. Also, no rapid fire.

    So if there is a range closer, I’m interested. I just don’t know of any.

  168. Schist?

    Haven’t heard that word since I was in elementary school where I learned the improper use of the apostrophe and other terrible grammar skills.

  169. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [170] stu

    Don’t like schist?

    How about basalt then?

  170. Painhrtz says:

    Gator – I agree. We have a name for folks in traveling circles for numb nuts who put their bag at the front of the plane then walk to the back. Scum bunny. They leave their crap and then happily hop away. Only to return at the worst possible times.

    If the airlines just enforced the overhead dimensions rule and forced people to check their bags it would not be a problem. What are they going to do refuse to fly because they can’t take their bag.

    After ten years of traveling for work. All of the irrational behavior I see at airports both from employees and travelers makes the time go quicker and the travel more bearable. I guess that is why they don’t enforce the rules, cuts down on the arguments.

  171. njescapee says:

    167, Nom, In my mind I see the GWB administartion’s tax cuts for the wealthier of our bretheren as the pre-emptive strike against the left. The accumulated defecits from the last admin pretty much assured very little wiggle room when the left regained power.

  172. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [153] hyde

    I can’t link that, but I see it is in PA, near Mt. Pocono.

    Probably about an equidistant drive from my area to there as it is to Lahaska (think New Hope).

    Will have to get rates and regulations to see which makes more sense.

  173. Barbara says:

    can one of you guys buy this house? I don;t think I can live that far out, but dude…

  174. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [173] escapee,

    That is one way to look at it. Ironic that Congress fully bought into it then, and it was never an issue until we were mired in Iraq. But I agree that tax policy is one of the principal battlefields.

    In the past, however, you did not vanquish your enemy as you needed them. There is less constraint now: the “progressive” left is all for ending private enterprise, or at least neutering it, while private enterprise has less regard for keeping its future customers employed.

    In fact, this attitude prevailed in the 60’s, at a time with similar parallels, but a less shaky economy. It failed in part because the hippies were not in power.

  175. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [175] barbara

    My BIL and sister have a house like that. They have a lot of structural issues, and are a b1tch to heat and cool.

  176. Barbara says:

    safe! I did not see that. Still too far for us but nice rental!

  177. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Barb, I like it.

    Reminds me a lot of the house on the jetsons.

    Mostly because there is no foundation.
    just seems to float among the tips of the mountains.

    Also – do you know anything about Monroe in middlesex? Is it worth looking there or what?

  178. Barbara says:

    Monroe is a typical jersey mix of rednecks and new construction. Check because I’m not sure about their rep.

  179. Barbara says:

    errm, 180 veto ^

  180. Juice Box says:

    fools you don’t pay for baggage when you fly first class.

  181. Libtard says:

    It is getting to the point where it is cheaper to ship your clothes to your destination. All of these service cuts will end up flying in the face of the airlines as people will become less likely to fly as they make it more an more uncomfortable as well as cost-prohibitive.

    Same as with Atlantic City. The casinos have nickel and dimed their customers to visiting more local casinos. I can’t believe Revel ain’t happening. It really could have helped all of AC. Instead, the unions cut off their own nose again. Man do unions today suck.

  182. freedy says:

    yes but its Atlantic City, stroll the
    city sidewalks for lovely views of the people. shopping at it finest , cheap rooms,
    eats are are ok, take a walk on the boardwalk, see the shops, and games, don’t
    forget the taffy.

  183. Jim says:

    167. Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    April 6, 2010 at 3:03 pm
    [139] jim

    You are laboring under the false premise that Obama represents you. He doesn’t. He represents his core constituency and those who share many of the values of the core constituency. And unlike his predecessors, he is quite open about that.
    Thanks for the response. That was a very good post.

  184. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Here is a 15 year old 3/2 Ranch on a culdasac. Taxes: $10k

    Bought Dec 2004 – $450k
    Asking $410K today.

    The gangs in the schools are a bonus, which you do not pay extra for.
    I Repeat.
    Buy the home now and we’ll throw the gangs in for free!

  185. grim says:

    Barb – 175

    I was considering it, until I realized that I would need another house to use between october and may though.

    The driveway is incredibly dangerous and is not passable in dnow, ice, or possibly heavy rain.

    Suitable only as a weekend house for childless manhattanites.

  186. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Here. This one is good for a late afternoon laugh.

    4/2.5 – 8k Taxes

    Bought in Dec 2006 – $415k
    Asking today??? Yep $415k

    Frank is this your listing?
    The for-sale sign on the lawn says “What Recession?”.

  187. NJGator says:

    veto 180 – All I know about Monroe is that half of my parents friends have moved to over 55 communities there.

  188. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    thanks Gator!
    From the 3 minutes of research that i gathered, ive learned that its got a diverse population – 1/3 seniors, 1/3 mcmansions and 1/3 nj red necks.
    This may be too diverse for us. lol.

  189. NJGator says:

    veti 189 – People will actually pay $400k to live in Hamilton? Must be that proximity to Trenton that makes it so valuable.

  190. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    All is well, we’ve turned the corner:

    Food Stamp Usage Hits Record 39 Million, 14th Consecutive Monthly Increase

  191. John says:

    just curious, what do real loan sharks charge now days. At work we are guesing the wise guys in brooklyn charge anywhere from 20-100% a month.

  192. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Gator – yes the smell from trenton adds on a $100K premium.

    I want to do a tv show on tlc called ‘Lowballer’.

    I’d go to the agent on a listing like that and slide the $180k offer across the table with all the confidence in the world. I might even presumptuously assume it’s a dont deal by asking if a $1,000 deposit is sufficient or make reference to a specific closing date that works for me.

    Then the camera zooms in on the agent’s facial expression slowly as the blood boils to his head with anger and embarrassment. The viewers realize that the message is being conveyed effectively and they wont be able to change the channel. i dont even wait around for initial feedback. my job will have been done just by submitting the offer and getting it on film.

    i’d watch every episode of that show.

  193. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    John, what happended with your primerica ipo? Its stuck at 19 bucks.

  194. frank says:

    Love Primerica, made money on it.

  195. SG says:

    The 2nd Bubble

    Bank of America is writing down the principal on selected home loans by 30%. Once again, government is rewarding the irresponsible (half of the home mortgages written during the real estate bubble of 2003–08 took out 2nd mortgages to live like fat cats, and many of these new homeowners put little or nothing down on the mortgage to begin with), and is again encouraging a whole class of people to be duped homeowners as they will face a 30% drop in the value of the home they buy (this will really impoverish them) and certainly have no where-with-all to shoulder the burden of paying property taxes (which is why this is now included in the mortgage payment).

    Hey, maybe I can buy a $500,000 home after its value is written down by 30% ($350,000) and the federales will make my down-payment for me and we can throw the centuries-old Judeo-Christian work ethic out the door. My umbilical cord just needeth to be reattached to the God of government.

    If you think all this is unsettling, Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke now suggests banks keep little or no reserves. Read, in the 8th paragraph of his “exit strategy” speech before the Committee on Financial Services, U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, D.C., where he says the objective now is “to build the capability to drain large quantities of reserves.”

    Now that means banks can just make all the money they want out of thin air to produce loans? At least a 10% reserve requirement made them restrict their loan pool via fractional banking into something that slightly resembled conservative banking. Is Bernanke sane? The banks wouldn’t need the Federal Reserve at all!

    Of course, almost all banks ignored the 10% reserve requirement and stretched credit so far (liars loans) that the only reserves on their accounting books now are provided by no-interest loans from the Federal Reserve, and the Federal Reserve took all the non-performing home loans at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and put them on their ledger. If this isn’t cooking the books I don’t know what is.

  196. frank says:

    Foreclosures Are Rising, bring them on.

  197. sas says:

    getting a drink at Rusty Kale’s


  198. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “the pig in the python is showing its face.”

  199. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    “Tens of thousands of loans have been hitting the “notice of trustee sale” bin, and that means they are coming to foreclosure.”

    Omg people. Get ready for a bloodletting of mass proportion.

  200. veto that - Lawrence Yun says:

    Frank, There is a tidal wave of comp killers coming to Hoboken.

    “And this is just the beginning.

    All the uniform policies and practices that the government has put in place, whether on modifications or short sales, will quicken the process.

    Foreclosures, which can now take 2 years plus to complete, will happen in less than a year, start to finish.”

  201. sas says:

    “Omg people. Get ready for a bloodletting of mass proportion”

    now now… go back to watching american idol and take your serotonin reuptake inhibitors.


  202. veto that - Lawrence Yun 'The Panda' says:

    “The big question of course is how will the new wave affect home prices, especially in the hardest hit markets.

    I pushed Fannie Mae’s chief economist Doug Duncan on this in an interview today. He said home prices will dip again before hitting bottom later this year.”

  203. willwork4beer says:

    Hamilton – borders Trenton, even the “good” neighborhoods are crappy, IMHO. There’s nothing there worth 400K.

    Monroe – at least the little gangsters in the schools don’t have far to go. Its the home of the New Jersey Training School (AKA – Reform School).

    New Jersey Training School
    P.O. Box 500
    Grace Hill Road
    Monroe Township, NJ 08831
    Superintendent: Craig Farr
    732-521-1738 (Fax)    

    The New Jersey Training School (NJTS) is the Juvenile Justice Commission’s largest facility currently housing approximately 300 male juveniles. It was opened in 1867 as a home for troubled youth. Today, NJTS is a secure facility with a state of the art perimeter fence and 24-hour armed roving patrol. Residents range in age from 12 to 23 years of age with the vast majority of residents being 16 to 18 years old.

  204. Orion says:

    Mortgage Interest deduction.
    Accountants, re agents, please clarify.

    Someone told me since the healthscare bill passed, that in order to pay for it, homeowners will no longer be able to deduct mortgage interest on their taxes. True? False?

  205. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Beer 207:

    Grew up in that area. We used to go joy riding in Monroe cause it was all farms back then.

    Now it is an urban sprawl nightmare. The schools are not that great.

    And oh yeah, we used to drive by reform school too. Hahaha!

  206. Confused in NJ says:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Federal Reserve officials at their March meeting stressed the need to make sure record-low interest rates don’t feed new speculative bubbles in stocks or other assets.

    Bernanke has either a twisted sense of humor making this statement, or he is totally deaf, dumb & blind.

  207. Confused in NJ says:

    Households paying income taxes at the 33% and 35% rates can currently claim deductions at those rates. Under the Obama proposal, they could deduct only 28% of the value of those payments.

    The changes would be phased in gradually over the next few years. For the 2009 tax year, the 33% tax bracket starts with couples with taxable earnings of $208,850, when adjusted for personal exemptions and various deductible expenses. A taxpayer in the top bracket paying $1,000 of mortgage interest, for example, would see a tax break worth $350 reduced to $280.

    During his presidential campaign, Mr. Obama promised not to raise taxes on families earning under $250,000 a year, and the administration said that this plan would roughly line up with that limit.

  208. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Confused 210:

    Bernanke is blowing the greatest and last bubbles right now. The interest rates need to stay low so we can buy our own debt at 0%. Hell, nobody else wants it. The stock market is along for the ride. We are all smart here on this blog and we all know what the hell is going on.

    I agree with Clot, when this thing blows it is all over.

  209. Confused in NJ says:

    212.All “H-Train” Hype says:
    April 6, 2010 at 6:39 pm
    Confused 210:

    Bernanke is blowing the greatest and last bubbles right now. The interest rates need to stay low so we can buy our own debt at 0%. Hell, nobody else wants it. The stock market is along for the ride. We are all smart here on this blog and we all know what the hell is going on.

    I agree with Clot, when this thing blows it is all over.

    Sad but true. The coming Obmaggedon Depression will make the Great Depression look like a walk in the park. I could live with that, if all the Bernake’s were made to pay the Ultimate Price for their Economic Treason. Ignorance & stupidity will not be allowed as a defense.

  210. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [193] frank

    I’ve got a better one, targetted to the state troopers in NJ

    “Cut me some slack. I’m paying your pension.”

  211. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [184] libtard,

    We did exactly that. Shipped clothes and things we knew we’d have a hard time getting through customs to France for a vacation.

    Worked beautifully, and the savings on not buying things there covered the shipping.

    I also took along a lot of older clothes that I had no intention of wearing much longer, and simply tossed them out rather than pack them back.

  212. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    There’s more than one way to be a bagholder:

    “More green card holders and Americans living overseas are renouncing their U.S. citizenship as tax hikes for top earners loom and the Internal Revenue Service gets tough on reporting rules for accounts in foreign banks.

    In the fourth quarter of last year, about 500 people across the globe severed ties with the U.S., more than double the total number in all of 2008, The Wall Street Journal reported.

    Most of those were people with roots outside the U.S., such as professionals who got a green card while working in this country. Only a small number of those who renounced citizenship were Americans who moved abroad.
    In March, the Treasury Department said it would begin enforcing rigorous reporting rules for Americans with foreign bank accounts. Those who fail to report accounts that total more than $10,000 could face penalties of up to half the balance.

    On top of the stricter rules, the top marginal tax rate is set to go up nearly five percentage points at the end of 2010, according to the Journal.

    “Fifteen or 20 years ago there was a big rush to make sure your kids became U.S. citizens, for access to U.S. schools for example,” Timothy Burns, a tax lawyer in Hong Kong, told the newspaper. “Now we’re seeing just the opposite.”

  213. freedy says:

    being reported that NJ is short 250 million for the year , primary from sales tax.

    this is a real problem

  214. Yikes says:

    new house just popped up for sale in the neighborhood. after we bought early last year, there were 3 other sales.

    starting detective work, though it hardly matters since we plan on being here for awhile.

  215. Yikes says:

    Final Doom says:
    April 6, 2010 at 9:04 am

    make (18)-

    Anyone currently at Ramapo College is probably better off working on a road crew.

    brutal. i thought it was called “Princeton North?”

    maybe that’s William Patterson

  216. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    “A study released Monday by Stanford University estimates that California’s three largest state-operated, public-employee pension funds—the California Public Employees’ Retirement System, California State Teachers’ Retirement System and University of California Retirement System—currently face a total shortfall of more than $500 billion.”


  217. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [217] freedy

    I guess that makes me part of the problem.

    Don’t care. Fcuk Trenton.

  218. freedy says:

    But wait, where are we going to get the money to pay the teachers, cops, fire, muni’s

  219. Confused in NJ says:

    217.freedy says:
    April 6, 2010 at 7:34 pm
    being reported that NJ is short 250 million for the year , primary from sales tax.

    this is a real problem

    People must be cutting their own grass and shoveling their own snow again, to avoid the Sales tax. They need a new Law making you liable for a USE tax if you do it yourself.

  220. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Iran gets fast sporting powerboat for arming with Russian torpedoes

    “After laying hands on the record-breaking 61.5 mph speedboat, built for a British sporting adventurer, the Iranian navy plans to arm it with the reputedly fastest torpedo in the world, the Russian-designed Shkval (Squall), which moves at speeds of 360 kph. debkafile’s military sources report Tehran is aiming for a seaborne weapon able to sink a US carrier in the Persian Gulf.”

    Thats nothing compared to what weve got down at the shore.

  221. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Sharpe james supporters protesting at penn station. Traffic awful

  222. sas3 says:


    “More green card holders and Americans living overseas are renouncing their U.S. citizenship…”

    How can a green card holder renounce a citizenship? People on green cards that are out of the country over two years automatically lose them.

    The Wall Street Journal has been cr@p for quite a long time.


  223. NJGator says:

    It’s like battered woman syndrome. Can’t believe there’s anyone out there that still supports him.

    “Sharpe james supporters protesting at penn station. Traffic awful”

  224. NJGator says:


    “I feel as though he did nothing wrong, so God gave him a chance to return home again,” said Clarence Hodge, 49, of Newark, who compared the mayor’s return to the resurrection of Chr*st. “He showed me when he was mayor what he was capable of.”

  225. Barbara says:

    gator, loved that GR house you posted, perfectly unmolested and it needs me but alas, I am not GR material. Those property taxes slay me. If I had 5 kids it would make sense.

  226. Stu says:

    Best comment on the Mayor Sharpe thread…

    “They weren’t supporters. He owed them all money.”

  227. chicagofinance says:

    Where is BC Bob….I’ll fcuking kick his a$$…………

  228. Wag says:

    Ket (25) I am on vacation until Thursday, back to the pit on Friday. Up for a Sussex GTG…why hell yes.

  229. Juice Box says:

    Crap It’s is really F-ed up now, they want to now close St. Vinny’s Emergency room in Manhattan. Very troubling it’s losing 10 million a month!

    I lived in the West Village for years that place was a busy hospital. Where are the patients going now?

  230. cobbler says:

    nom [176]

    In a grand scheme of things:

    – At least half of white-collar jobs doesn’t have to be done, other than for the aggrandizement of their managers

    – U.S. poor receiving food stamps, housing assistance, etc. and not working or working very little are no more deserving than the poor of Calcutta or Bombay picking through the piles of garbage for scraps 16 hours a day

    – U.S. tea-partying middle class is no more educated, is less smart and less hard-working than their peers in Taiwan or Korea, and despite that feels entitled to earning 3x more per hour of presence at their workplace

    – Top 2% or 5% incomes in the U.S. are no less deserving than their peers in Columbia or India of having at least 3 domestic servants per family, a gardener, a chauffeur, whatever

    – There is nothing in a low-tax, unregulated, globalized environment to prevent these things from coming to their logical conclusion. Cries for liberty, and curses of supposed soci@lism will bring us there quicker

    – I’ve spent enough nights in a $300/night hotel room separated by the narrow strip garden, a 10-ft wall with broken glass on top and by a bunch of security guards from the Mumbai slum, not to wish to live like this here . If I have to pay 10% more in taxes so that our society does not go 3rd World (income distribution terms) so be it.

  231. safeashouses says:

    Speaking of 3rd world.

    “L.A. mayor looking at shutting city down two days a week”

    The comments are classic. I loved the one asking how this will impact mail delivery, and someone responding that the mail is privatized.

  232. Mr Hyde says:


    even better…. they may not make payroll.

    <i.Los Angeles will run out of cash on May 5, city Controller Wendy Greuel said today in a release in which she requested a $90 million transfer of reserve funds to pay bills.

    “The question I have been asked most often during the budget crisis is, ‘When will the city run out of money?” Greuel said in the e-mailed release. “Unfortunately, we finally have the answer.”

    Greuel, 48, said in the release that the city might not be able to make payroll. S

  233. Mr Hyde says:

    And look, Detroit is about to go bankrupt

    Mayor Dave Bing and the City Council must reduce the size of government and slash the city’s budget deficit to stave off bankruptcy or state receivership, according to a report released Monday.

    Without draconian cuts and changes aimed at downsizing government, the city could end up with a “possible” general fund deficit between $446 million and $466 million to its $1.6 billion budget.–Detroit-bankruptcy-looms-without-drastic-change

  234. Final Doom says:

    Yeah, baby! It’s all coming to a fcuking head. Around about May 1, the ultra-violence will get going, and we’ll separate the men from the boys.

    Broke. Broke. Broke. Done in by the bogeymen in DC and Wall Street. The Joker has robbed the bank, shot his accomplices and jumped into the getaway car…and we’re just beginning to notice through the fog of our collective torpor that things aren’t exactly jimdandy.

  235. Final Doom says:

    Time to nut up, bitches.

    Better YouTube some Spanish and French riots. Those mf’ers know how to knock some skulls.

  236. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Thats some funny sh#t. LA is gonna be a zoo. Should make for good tv.



    Heres some insight after I inquired regarding expatriation.

    “Chile was one of my destinations, but unless you are in the trades you do not want to go there due to the results of the earthquake which will take years to clean up. The best alternative is within a 125 mile radius of Guadalajara, Mexico – everything you need is there, and there is only a slight change in moving from the states. There is plenty to do, plenty of business, no recession, and low to moderate crime rates. You can get a FM3 renew it each year for 5 years and then if you wish apply for citizenship. The other two places are Panama City, Panama and San Jose, Costa Rica.

    Google them all and talk to the consulates.

  237. Mr Hyde says:

    Al 241

    Mexico is not a very good idea. Unless you happen to enjoy being in a failed state sometimes run by the government and sometimes run by various drug lords. But then again sometimes the 2 groups are 1 and the same….

  238. Mr Hyde says:


    you will like this…

    The 1792 Coinage Act states that the penalty of debasing the currency is death

    from Section 19

    And be it further enacted, That if any of the gold or silver coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint shall be debased or made worse as to the proportion of the fine gold or fine silver therein contained, or shall be of less weight or value than the same out to be pursuant to the directions of this act, through the default or with the connivance of any of the officers or persons who shall be employed at the said mint, for the purpose of profit or gain, or otherwise with a fraudulent intent, and if any of the said officers or persons shall embezzle any of the metals which shall at any time be committed to their charge for the purpose of being coined, or any of the coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint, every such officer or person who shall commit any or either of the said offenses, shall be deemed guilty of felony, and shall suffer death.

  239. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:



    go tell that to the ranchers along the Mexican border. Looks like reverse Gadsen purchase down there. Amnesty cant come soon enough.

    Burn baby burn.

  240. still_looking says:

    Juice, 234

    The ER will stay open but will work as a satellite ER. See patients but anything that requires admission to be transported to another hospital.

    Much like Muhlenberg hospital is right now.

    This is going to happen more and more. As hospitals start taking on the burden of more and more uninsured/medicaid/selfpay/underinsured/etc.

    When operating cost is higher than revenue = you go “tits up in the water.”

    Then again, what do I know… I just assemble bologna sandwiches for a living.


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