C19 Open Discussion Week 39c

Interesting piece on the lone dissenter at the CDC:

CDC advisory panel’s lone dissenter on why long-term care residents shouldn’t receive Covid-19 vaccine first

When a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advisory committee voted Tuesday to recommend residents of long-term care facilities should be at the front of the line — with health care providers — for Covid-19 vaccines, the lone dissenting voice came from a researcher who studies vaccines in older adults.

Helen Keipp Talbot — who is known by her middle name — raised serious concerns during the meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices about using the vaccines in the frail elderly, noting there are no data yet to suggest the vaccines work in this population.

All the U.S.-based Phase 3 trials of Covid vaccines have to include people 65 and older. But none has specifically tested the vaccines in people who are in long-term care. One can’t assume findings in people over age 65 who are healthy enough to be accepted for a clinical trial are indicative of everyone in that demographic, she said.

At an earlier ACIP meeting, Talbot warned that vaccinating this population at the start of the vaccine rollout is risky, because long-term care residents have a high rate of medical events that could be confused as side effects of vaccination and undermine confidence in the vaccines. “And I think you’re going to have a very striking backlash of, ‘My grandmother got the vaccine and she passed away,’” she said at the time.

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119 Responses to C19 Open Discussion Week 39c

  1. Phoenix says:

    First

  2. dentss dunnigan says:

    2ed …like Trump

  3. 1987 Condo says:

    Jobs: +245,000

    U/E: 6.7%

  4. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    Does anything sound as silly as saying trump is a Russian spy? People here were saying that for years. Some still are.

  5. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    As for widespread election fraud by democrats, it’s been a running joke for as long as they’ve been around. To theorize they took advantage of the pandemic to supersize the fraud sounds pretty sensible to me. Let’s keep digging.

  6. Fast Eddie says:

    245K on the jobs gains, remarkably smaller than expected as corporations scurry to adjust to the return of higher taxes and layers of regulation. This is the first of numerous measures enacted by the antiquated, bloated and predictable ways of the same old democrat party. Strangled growth, stagnant wages and hiring will ensue but will be just enough for the democrats to pilfer in order to feed the same failed ideas of the last 60 years.

  7. Libturd says:

    The best thing about Parler is that it has made Facebook useful again.

  8. Fast Eddie says:

    The best thing about Parler is that it has made Facebook useful again.

    Mind f.ucking each other with dreams of s0cial utopia is not useful.

  9. joyce says:

    Hey Gary,
    When does the responsibility for good news transition from being the current administration’s success to the next?

    When does the responsibility for bad news transition from being the current administration’s fault to the next?

  10. Juice Box says:

    The videos with four suitcases of ballots in Fulton County Georgia looks very fishy.

    Here is a CBS report on it, ballot counters and supervisors were sent home at 10:30 PM, as they were told to go home as count was over for the night. After everyone else left workers pulled four suitcases of ballots out from hiding under a covered table, and fed them into the counting machines. Suitcases? They then counted the estimated 24,000 ballots and uploaded it into the system around 1AM. The data that is available shows the votes counted were 98% Biden during that time. It looks fishy and should be investigated.

    https://www.cbs46.com/news/lawmakers-hear-bombshell-allegations-of-georgia-election-fraud/article_8404e930-35e5-11eb-8ac3-1fc96e3b52d8.html

    Here is a composite of dour video cameras presented yesterday to the Georgia Legislature.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbTSUkA8xgI&feature=emb_logo

  11. ExEssex says:

    The American economic recovery continues to slow, stranding millions who have yet to find a new job after being thrown out of work by the coronavirus pandemic.

    The latest evidence came Friday when the Labor Department reported that employers added 245,000 jobs in November, the fifth month in a row that the pace of hiring has tapered off. The figure for October was revised downward to 610,000, from the initially stated 638,000.

    The unemployment rate in November was 6.7 percent, down from the previous month’s rate of 6.9 percent. But that figure does not fully capture the extent of the joblessness because it doesn’t include people who have dropped out of the labor force and are not actively searching for work.

  12. 3b says:

    Fast: I think it’s early yet to attribute the poor jobs numbers for November to the incoming Biden administration. In fact I think corporate America, Joe’s masters are extremely pleased that with Biden as President things will be getting back to normal.

  13. BRT says:

    Here’s a video of NYC during election day.
    https://youtu.be/p56Ok2ahtYk?t=193

  14. Juice Box says:

    back to normal?

    We are going to be in lockdown for perhaps another year no matter who is president. Europe does not have Donald Trump as president, yet they are in lockdown again.

    If the governments want to do something they should now be applying their money and recourses to the supply chain to fix the issues getting batches of the raw materials for the vaccine. The Pfizer news is terrible, raw materials are substandard and they have cut their Covid vaccine dosage production estimates in half.

  15. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (BRT Edition):

    Mr. Ratcliffe is U.S. director of national intelligence.

    OPINION

    China Is National Security Threat No. 1

    Resisting Beijing’s attempt to reshape and dominate the world is the challenge of our generation.

    By John Ratcliffe

    Dec. 3, 2020 1:20 pm ET

    As Director of National Intelligence, I am entrusted with access to more intelligence than any member of the U.S. government other than the president. I oversee the intelligence agencies, and my office produces the President’s Daily Brief detailing the threats facing the country. If I could communicate one thing to the American people from this unique vantage point, it is that the People’s Republic of China poses the greatest threat to America today, and the greatest threat to democracy and freedom world-wide since World War II.

    The intelligence is clear: Beijing intends to dominate the U.S. and the rest of the planet economically, militarily and technologically. Many of China’s major public initiatives and prominent companies offer only a layer of camouflage to the activities of the Chinese Communist Party.

    I call its approach of economic espionage “rob, replicate and replace.” China robs U.S. companies of their intellectual property, replicates the technology, and then replaces the U.S. firms in the global marketplace.

    Take Sinovel. In 2018 a federal jury found the Chinese wind-turbine manufacturer guilty of stealing trade secrets from American Superconductor. Penalties were imposed but the damage was done. The theft resulted in the U.S. company losing more than $1 billion in shareholder value and cutting 700 jobs. Today Sinovel sells wind turbines world-wide as if it built a legitimate business through ingenuity and hard work rather than theft.

    The FBI frequently arrests Chinese nationals for stealing research-and-development secrets. Until the head of Harvard’s Chemistry Department was arrested earlier this year, China was allegedly paying him $50,000 a month as part of a plan to attract top scientists and reward them for stealing information. The professor has pleaded not guilty to making false statements to U.S. authorities. Three scientists were ousted in 2019 from MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston over concerns about China’s theft of cancer research. The U.S. government estimates that China’s intellectual-property theft costs America as much as $500 billion a year, or between $4,000 and $6,000 per U.S. household.

    China also steals sensitive U.S. defense technology to fuel President Xi Jinping’s aggressive plan to make China the world’s foremost military power. U.S. intelligence shows that China has even conducted human testing on members of the People’s Liberation Army in hope of developing soldiers with biologically enhanced capabilities. There are no ethical boundaries to Beijing’s pursuit of power.

    China is also developing world-class capabilities in emerging technologies. Its intelligence services use their access to tech firms such as Huawei to enable malicious activities, including the introduction of vulnerabilities into software and equipment. Huawei and other Chinese firms deny this, but China’s efforts to dominate 5G telecommunications will only increase Beijing’s opportunities to collect intelligence, disrupt communications and threaten user privacy world-wide. I have personally told U.S. allies that using such Chinese-owned technology will severely limit America’s ability to share vital intelligence with them.

    China already suppresses U.S. web content that threatens the Communist Party’s ideological control, and it is developing offensive cyber capabilities against the U.S. homeland. This year China engaged in a massive influence campaign that included targeting several dozen members of Congress and congressional aides.

    Consider this scenario: A Chinese-owned manufacturing facility in the U.S. employs several thousand Americans. One day, the plant’s union leader is approached by a representative of the Chinese firm. The businessman explains that the local congresswoman is taking a hard-line position on legislation that runs counter to Beijing’s interests—even though it has nothing to do with the industry the company is involved in—and says the union leader must urge her to shift positions or the plant and all its jobs will soon be gone.

    The union leader contacts his congresswoman and indicates that his members won’t support her re-election without a change in position. He tells himself he’s protecting his members, but in that moment he’s doing China’s bidding, and the congresswoman is being influenced by China, whether she realizes it or not.

    Our intelligence shows that Beijing regularly directs this type of influence operation in the U.S. I briefed the House and Senate Intelligence committees that China is targeting members of Congress with six times the frequency of Russia and 12 times the frequency of Iran.

    To address these threats and more, I have shifted resources inside the $85 billion annual intelligence budget to increase the focus on China. This shift must continue to ensure U.S. intelligence has the resources it needs to give policy makers unvarnished insights into China’s intentions and activities.

    Within intelligence agencies, a healthy debate and shift in thinking is already under way. For the talented intelligence analysts and operators who came up during the Cold War, the Soviet Union and Russia have always been the focus. For others who rose through the ranks at the turn of this century, counterterrorism has been top of mind. But today we must look with clear eyes at the facts in front of us, which make plain that China should be America’s primary national security focus going forward.

    Other nations must understand this is true for them as well. The world is being presented a choice between two wholly incompatible ideologies. China’s leaders seek to subordinate the rights of the individual to the will of the Communist Party. They exert government control over companies and subvert the privacy and freedom of their citizens with an authoritarian surveillance state.

    We shouldn’t assume that Beijing’s efforts to drag the world back into the dark will fail just because the forces of good have triumphed before in modern times. China believes that a global order without it at the top is a historical aberration. It aims to change that and reverse the spread of liberty around the world.

    Beijing is preparing for an open-ended period of confrontation with the U.S. Washington should also be prepared. Leaders must work across partisan divides to understand the threat, speak about it openly, and take action to address it.

    This is our once-in-a-generation challenge. Americans have always risen to the moment, from defeating the scourge of fascism to bringing down the Iron Curtain. This generation will be judged by its response to China’s effort to reshape the world in its own image and replace America as the dominant superpower. The intelligence is clear. Our response must be as well.

    Mr. Ratcliffe is U.S. director of national intelligence.

  16. Libturd says:

    Juice. Let me falsify your smoking gun. First, as soon as I turned on your stupid video, I questioned the absolutely idiotic pattern of camera shots. Why not have all four complete screens? What is the plaintiff hiding here? Second, the video testimony is useless since the timestamp is missing from the main camera where the fraudulent lawyer is claiming the lady in blonde is rolling the table in. Especially considering that there is no movement in the other three screens at the time, so this could have occurred at any time. Perhaps, the morning after? Perhaps the morning before? No date stamps either which is also conspicuous. Once again. Another story made up by the right, that will be repeated over and over until the idiots on the right believe it as fact. I also want to know how they knew that 98% for Biden at that time.

    I know the right loves a good conspiracy. This is a terrible one. And many ballots are shipped by suitcase depending on where they were collected. I know because this is not the first time I witnessed them being transferred by this means.

    Finally, I’m pretty sure the ballots are not being scanned by those particular workers. Maybe they are being opened and sorted, but I’m 99% sure the larger machines do the counting. Google it, if you don’t believe me.

    Without bias, the 4 viewing screen positions are definitely intentionally placed that way to hide something. There is absolutely no denying that.

  17. BRT says:

    Lib, regardless of what conclusions or accusations are made here. This needs to be investigated and either confirmed or squashed. Get all the people on video in and have them testify.

  18. BRT says:

    I worked with a lot of Chinese nationals in chem grad school. Maybe up to 30. Made friends with only one of them. The rest were very odd individuals. I could tell you that most had no sense of immorality with respect to plagiarism. It was so bad that they had to run a non-credit class on it for all of us. They were clearly different than the rest of the foreigners I worked with. Made friends with people from Turkey, Iran, Jordan, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Russia, Japan, Korea, UK, Nigeria…almost effortlessly.

    I had a student 6 or 7 years ago in high school that was from China. Brilliant. Still my best student to this day. She moved here at 14. I sent her over to Rutgers to do undergrad research. She told me the Chinese nationals in the lab were the weirdest people she ever met.

  19. Juice Box says:

    Lib – I am surprised you did not say debunked. I said it”s fishy and should be investigated. not by internet experts like you, but police. We should not be taking the word of anyone in management here, there should be no “suitcases” anywhere near the vote counting, especially ones filled with ballots.

  20. BoomersScrewed TheGoldenGeese says:

    ChiFi,

    Re China. That is why I think the worse president ever was Clinton, and the worse generation ever the greedy locust boomers. They were all doing acid when the cold war came up in history class.

    Only a bunch of nitwit could think that by making China wealthy they were going to lose the CCP. Just like only them can think that all those H1-B1 are clean, and not doing corporate or country espionage or sabotage.

    One thing I agree with Trump is China. There should be a 500% tariff on Chinese product and 250% on any foreign product unless its manufacture generates toxic waste. Along with massive tax audit of any foreign manufacturer importing into the USA, start with Apple.

  21. Bystander says:

    Oh, it is all turning to sh&t in corp world but Biden stock melt keeps going. Thanks Joe

  22. ExEsSex says:

    oNlY tRumP cAn fIx tHiS

  23. 3b says:

    Chgo: That is a sobering read. And I have been saying for years it’s China and not Russia who is the real threat to the USA and the world. The left has been almost completely silent about this, and would rather scream about Russia and the nonsense that Trump is a Russian spy.

  24. Fast Eddie says:

    Oh, it is all turning to sh&t in corp world but Biden stock melt keeps going.

    Hiring freeze coupled with attrition equals stockholder value. This is the only positive I can see with the incoming faux administration. Let the silly f.ucks fritter away their time on pea-brained debates such as gender flavors, bathroom etiquette, diversity, equality and inclusion blather while the real world continues the arduous and dutiful tasks that make this country great.

  25. ExESsex says:

    No Trump “was” a Russian asset.

  26. ExEssex says:

    11:03 your gender screeds make me wonder.
    You seem
    Obsessed.

  27. ExEssex says:

    Friday reminder: the dumbasses lost!

  28. ExEssex says:

    And finally…..
    Barr finally met a Trump lie he couldn’t swallow. It’s a watershed in the 2020 election saga.
    Barr gave us a defining moment. It’s time to shine sunlight on disinformation and start building a shared reality based on our common love of country.
    William Weld, Norman Eisen and Joanna LydgateOpinion contributors
    Under normal circumstances, there would be nothing shocking about Attorney General William Barr’s statement that the Department of Justice has found no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election. Indeed, we just witnessed and participated in what’s been termed the most secure contest in modern American history.

  29. Fast Eddie says:

    Essex,

    How’s the new job going? What is the role again?

  30. ExEssex says:

    I’m Trump’s new legal counsel.

  31. Libturd says:

    Election related fraud claims – 40
    Positive findings – 1

    Go on, keep on making sh1t up. But investigate, unless it’s an impeachment trial of a supreme court nomination. Then you must shut the F up.

    I am not a cheerleader for the blue team or the red team. Just can’t stand the ignoramus in the white house. All of these election fraud claims, (though I’ll admit, if there was any smoke, should be investigated) are 100% baseless and are making the red team look like the safe-space inhabiting blue team which they so deplore. Just saying. It’s not a good luck. Even Hillary conceded the following morning and Obama wasn’t screaming fraud and rigging. As for the Russian interference? It was proven it existed, unlike all of these fraud claims. But go on and keep making believe that our elections are rigged.

  32. ExEssex says:

    Following a viral video appearing to show Rudy Giuliani experiencing flatulence on camera during a Michigan election hearing on Wednesday, a state lawmaker has confirmed the fart was real.
    There were two instances of President Donald Trump’s personal attorney appearing to pass gas during the hearing.

    https://youtu.be/3h0XTM9jFMk

  33. Libturd says:

    Honestly, Trump is the kid who throws the checkerboard into the air right before his last piece is jumped.

  34. Libturd says:

    Though the farts are probably as fake as that dumb supposed bombshell video (even though there have been more of these dropped in the last year than in a world war). The look on the other lawyers face is priceless. Perhaps an investigation should be launched? Can we subpoena Rudy’s briefs? I mean the cotton ones.

  35. Juice Box says:

    Lib – forget time stamps…upon further examination of better quality video they aren’t suitcases, that “lawyer” is wrong. Also the manager in question “Ruby” is quite the social media star broadcasting from the vote counting area while trying to do the minimal amount of work. Her social media videos show she is quite the character and well not capable of being the mastermind of voter fraud.

    https://streamable.com/4itxmz

  36. Juice Box says:

    Those here suffering must have found some relief from TDS by now, a full month and has passed since the election. Trump should no longer be living rent free in your heads. 47 more days and we get new leadership…..

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’m glad that people are finally waking up to threat of China. Just hope it’s not too late….otherwise, war is coming.

    That’s why anyone bashing America’s empire building should be quiet. What are they advocating… for war? Everyone knows, when there is one powerful boss at the table, everyone gets in line. When that boss gets taken out, chaos ensues out of that vacuum for power. Take away America’s position as lone superpower, and this era of peace since WWII is gone…

  38. Bystander says:

    Right Ed..why this ‘real’ admin concentrates on the good of the Qountry…oops did I misspell that. Sorry I just watched a clip of latest fraud conspiracy crack smoker that Guiliani trotted out..or was that a ‘star witness’?

  39. ExEssex says:

    Next up! Rudy on Jerry Springer. Trump would praise him for that.

  40. 30 year realtor says:

    Trump has finally found his calling, raising money from his base. Over 170 million in the last month. He never saw such a large sum that didn’t have a promissory note attached to it.

  41. Juice Box says:

    Pumps – There was a virtual conference this week Aspen Cyber Security Summit and covered in the Washington Post where it was revealed do to FBI investigations more than 1,000 Chinese PLA affiliated “researchers” have left the United States for fear of arrest.

    FBI has been arresting them and China has threatened to arrest US citizens over it.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/more-than-1000-visiting-researchers-affiliated-with-the-chinese-military-fled-the-united-states-this-summer-justice-department-says/2020/12/02/9c564dee-34e1-11eb-b59c-adb7153d10c2_story.html

    Let’s see how sleepy Joe covers this one moving forward.

  42. Bystander says:

    Maybe he can build a Trump Guyana so all the cult members can live together happily ever after..or not.

  43. BRT says:

    If you recall that incident where the Chinese grad student shut down the airport because he jumped over a barrier at Newark Airport, my friend worked with him. Just a weird guy who had no sense of rules.

  44. Fast Eddie says:

    47 years of graft by a grifter… 47 years of evasion and living off people with real jobs… 47 years of non-service and now, the appointment of similar swindlers and shysters. His cabinet is chock full of leftist barkers, ready to oil up the engine of fraud and duplicity, disguised as progress organized by one-sided hacks and hustlers. I can’t wait to see the media spin and cover-up of one failure after another by this group of misfits.

  45. No One says:

    Regarding China:
    China is fascist. Just look up the dictionary definition of fascist. Fits the country exactly.

    My wife left China when she was 25. My work involves following Chinese business, industry, economy and regulation closely for the last 26 years (my first visit was in 1994).

    There are some good things about Chinese culture. Hard work, high savings, generous hosts, good food. But also bad. Collectivism and group think is high. “Face,” one’s appearance in others eyes, is generally valued over individual ethical integrity. There is innate hypocrisy driven by the fact that people mouth communist slogans one day, then engage in very unethical business the next. So ethical principles are abandoned, sundered between official doctrines few believe vs the corruption actually practiced. And the PRC have mastered modern nationalist mind control over the internet that would make Hitler envious.

    Given their size, military, and collectivist-nationalist philosophy, yes of course they are a threat to and openly hostile to countries that respect liberty and individual rights. Sooner and later.

  46. njtownhomer says:

    He told us he knows the wind very much.

    Giuliani proves him right in the middle of the courthouse. All his defense in total has the weight of a brief second of fart.

    In the meantime millions of dollars raised to pay the bills and store for the future. Amazing televangelism going on in front of our eyes.

  47. Bystander says:

    “I can’t wait to see the media spin and cover-up of one failure after another by this group of misfits.”

    It will be harder to get this as Biden admin will most likely listen to professional opinions (as opposed to their big brain) and refrain from daily ego dumping of illogical, inflammatory drivel on twitter.

  48. Phoenix says:

    In 2018 a federal jury found the Chinese wind-turbine manufacturer guilty of stealing trade secrets from American Superconductor. Penalties were imposed but the damage was done. The theft resulted in the U.S. company losing more than $1 billion in shareholder value and cutting 700 jobs. Today Sinovel sells wind turbines world-wide as if it built a legitimate business through ingenuity and hard work rather than theft.

    Haha. Sounds just like a divorce. Worthless legal system. By the time they “administer justice” the game is over.

    I was a bit bored so went over to YouTube and watched some car crash videos from car cameras. Wonder if the last thought the “law abiding citizen” that had the green light was that he had the “legal” right of way. As it was going to matter as the semi plowed through his whole car turning him into a bag of blood.

    Legal is not where it’s at when the rubber hits the road.

  49. Phoenix says:

    Watched a show on a company called Ampex from years ago. Great history lesson. Doing more research I read this.

    “Near the end of the war, while serving in the U.S. Army Signal Corps, Major Jack Mullin was assigned to investigate German radio and electronics experiments. He discovered the Magnetophons with AC biasing on a trip to Radio Frankfurt. The device produced much better fidelity than shellac records. The technological processes in tape recording and equipment developed by German companies before and during the 1939-45 War had copyrights which were effectively voided after Germany’s 1945 surrender and defeat.”

    Guess you could say America stole that technology. But then again we did the same thing when running from England, stole all of the technology in order to start our own “Industrial Revolution.”
    Funny how Americans complain about China stealing it’s ideas, when America’s first foundation blocks were built the exact same way. Totally hypocritical. Chastising someone else for doing what you already did as if you are so pious.
    And the poor greedy colleges want the money so bad they train potential spies for a buck.

    “Long before the United States began accusing other countries of stealing ideas, the U.S. government encouraged intellectual piracy to catch up with England’s technological advances. According to historian Doron Ben-Atar, in his book, Trade Secrets, “the United States emerged as the world’s industrial leader by illicitly appropriating mechanical and scientific innovations from Europe.”

    “The Founding Fathers not only tolerated intellectual piracy, they actively encouraged it. Many agreed with Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton, who believed that the development of a strong manufacturing base was vital to the survival of the largely agrarian country. ”

    https://www.history.com/news/industrial-revolution-spies-europe

  50. ExEssex says:

    Damn Hippies…..US House lawmakers just voted to decriminalize marijuana — here’s what you need to know On Friday, the House of Representatives voted for the first time on a bill to decriminalize cannabis. The bill passed 228 to 164, with the majority of Democrats voting in favor and the majority of Republicans voting against. The bill is expected to face a harder trial in the Senate, which has a Republican majority

  51. 3b says:

    Phoenix Fair points assuming that is all true, but that was over 200 years ago, and this is now. Do we really want China to dominate the world going forward? I would think not.

  52. Phoenix says:

    3B
    Although I’m not for China dominating the world America does not get to take the moral high ground on this. I mean it’s not like we don’t just fly drones into foreign countries and assassinate people whenever we feel like.

  53. ExEssex says:

    Jenna Ellis, a lawyer on President Donald Trump’s ‘elite strike force team,’ worked in traffic court before being fired as a prosecutor
    She can’t practice in federal court because she hasn’t paid her fees
    Ellis was subject to profiles in Wall Street Journal and New York Times on rapid rise from Colorado attorney to Trump defender
    Ellis parlayed work for James Dobson and Christian right into a national profile
    Trump noticed her when she defended him on Fox News
    She calls herself a ‘constitutional law attorney’ but it’s unclear when she practiced that or election law

  54. Juice BoX says:

    re: yeah Phoenix old but they have much better stuff

    NSFW

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhCMoZZq9LI

  55. ExEssex says:

    AP: Ellis, a former circus carny returned to her native land to establish the now notable White People for Jebus Cultural Whiplash Society which among other ideas believes Donald Trump was sent to usher in the end of days. He is in fact the anti-Christ.

  56. ExEssex says:

    In other news:
    NJ Gov. Phil Murphy called Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz “Matt Putz” at a news conference and said he was no longer welcome in the state
    Gaetz was a featured speaker at an event for New York City Young Republicans held in secret in New Jersey the night before
    The restaurant venue that held Thursday’s event was ordered closed Friday afternoon by Jersey City’s Department of Health

  57. BRT says:

    America didn’t practice mercantilism to shut down every factory in England to sell them back their stolen ideas.

  58. BRT says:

    Maybe Murphy is angry that the Floridians are coming to NJ to run up his death toll to ensure he keeps his commanding lead over the entire world. Murphy basically shot 200% over par.

  59. BRT says:

    Although I’m not for China dominating the world America does not get to take the moral high ground on this. I mean it’s not like we don’t just fly drones into foreign countries and assassinate people whenever we feel like.

    We would like to stop that as well. That’s why I was a big supporter of Ron Paul…who stressed non-interventionist foreign policy. And in response Dems and Republicans at the time screamed ISOLATIONIST!

  60. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Price to pay for stable world peace. You will always have minor attacks/rebellions over time, but trick is to kill it quick.

    Phoenix says:
    December 4, 2020 at 4:06 pm
    3B
    Although I’m not for China dominating the world America does not get to take the moral high ground on this. I mean it’s not like we don’t just fly drones into foreign countries and assassinate people whenever we feel like.

  61. Phoenix says:

    BRT,
    Americans CHOSE to move their factories to China. Americans have no one else to blame but themselves and the corporations they worship.

    Now go buy your Chrysler product with its bad rod bearings and defective transmissions.
    This whole country is full of charlatans all looking for a buck, with most rarely ever being able to produce quality work, but with some exceptions.

    There are some who do take pride in their work, they are in the minority, and are highly sought out.

    America’s problem is not with China, it’s with the American public. This is why you had only 2 muppets to choose from. Man up, Grow a pair, and accept it that without a doubt America is it’s own worst enemy.
    Why do you think Lib is getting ready to pack his bags and split?

  62. Phoenix says:

    “but trick is to kill it quick.”

    Yeah, till you get 9/11 v2

    Keep pushing people, things will happen. Making enemies around the world is not going to be a great long term strategy.

    Of course, boomers don’t care as they will be digested worm food by then.

  63. ExEssex says:

    Hurry Trump needs $$$ donate to his “legal defense fund” !!

    *Suckers

  64. Phoenix says:

    “Judge restores DACA, orders DHS to accept first-time applications from immigrants”

    Congratulations, the cheap labor you wanted is back for you to hire. God forbid an American actually wants to work for a living.

  65. Phoenix says:

    Ex,
    He gets to pocket that money. I wish I had suckers that would donate millions to me. But hey, I’ll just work.
    It’s all good.

  66. ExEssex says:

    Trump raised over $200 million after Election Day. Just $8.8 million has gone towards challenging the vote.

    President’s campaign pays off debts and helps form a new PAC while supporters donate millions in hopes of overturning election results

  67. 3b says:

    Phoenix American corporations chose to move their corporations overseas, not the American people.Boomers like our new President Biden, and Pelosi and Mc Connell and all the rest of them were paid handsomely by corporations to look the other way. Now Joe is going to Build it back better. What a joke!

  68. BRT says:

    BRT,
    Americans CHOSE to move their factories to China. Americans have no one else to blame but themselves and the corporations they worship.

    Now go buy your Chrysler product with its bad rod bearings and defective transmissions.
    This whole country is full of charlatans all looking for a buck, with most rarely ever being able to produce quality work, but with some exceptions.

    There are some who do take pride in their work, they are in the minority, and are highly sought out.

    America’s problem is not with China, it’s with the American public. This is why you had only 2 muppets to choose from. Man up, Grow a pair, and accept it that without a doubt America is it’s own worst enemy.
    Why do you think Lib is getting ready to pack his bags and split?

    No shit. That’s why it’s so important to have tariffs to prevent this from happening. Bush Sr., Clinton, GWB, and Obama all presided over the looting of America. They even advocated for it. You have to set up the system that it it works itself out naturally to unwind this one way flow of wealth out of the country. Not possible until you shut China out. You can’t operate in America and build your own stuff. China will steal it, subsidize it, put you out of business selling below the cost of materials. Then they’ll re-normalize the price once you are gone. Unless of course, you set up shop in China. You can hate his guts all you want and he was an a**hole, but his tariffs were the only step in the right direction in 20 years. He also shutoff the market for stolen intellectual property to be sold here domestically. 1/2 of America has bought into tariffs while the other half fought them because F*CK TRUMP! You are right, America is it’s own worst enemy, because they fight all sensible policy to take partisan sides…even if it contradicts what their ideals 20 years ago.

    It’s was major step in the right direction now that the right has gotten all that free market “free trade” bs out of their heads. Realistically, this would take over a decade to unwind. And it has zero chance of happening now that Biden is at the helm. Corporate America is ecstatic because they will be able to resume the selling out of the American worker soon enough. None of this affects me, I’m a municipal employee. I’m sitting at max salary for the rest of my career.

    Maybe it takes a major devaluation to finally fix things…but our standard of living will be far below what it was. I don’t need to leave the country and have no plans to. New Jersey, absolutely I’ll leave at some point. Maybe in as little as 13 years. I’ve got my insurance policies and have had them for over a decade. I basically killed myself the past 1o years tutoring as a second job while living a minimalist lifestyle to ensure I can retire comfortably. I think maybe in a year or two, I might open up a tutoring center aimed at spotting deficiencies in education and correcting them. There are going to be a sh1t ton with these school shutdowns.

  69. Vornado says:

    I finally see the light. We need to give people opportunities not saddle them with debt. We should implement affordable housing in Wayne and rent control in Clifton. There’s too much money concentrated in Passaic county.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    December 4, 2020 at 7:45 pm
    Price to pay for stable world peace. You will always have minor attacks/rebellions over time, but trick is to kill it quick.

  70. BRT says:

    It should also be noted that the Chinese government has caused the death of tens of millions of it’s own citizens without a single care.

  71. No One says:

    BRT,
    That’s the point of collectivism. Individual lives are nothing, the group is all. And the CCP says it serves the group, so it has unlimited power over the individual.

  72. grim says:

    Lol, trying to justify Chinese intellectual property theft.

    Don’t be absurd.

  73. Bystander says:

    Reminder on facts, Obama placed 35% tariffs on Chinese tires. Chinese countered with 35% tariff on chicken imports from US. I know red hat dolts don’t like facts but Dumpy did not invent tariff strategy against China. Bloviating rhetoric does not mean anything changed with China. It is US corps who need punishment via legislation. Not happening. We gave it all away 40 years ago. US citizens will suffer consequences with lower cost of living year over year. We will print ourselves to wealth while still allowed. Once that ends, then war is inevitable.

  74. Bystander says:

    sorry standard of living..

  75. Phoenix says:

    “Lol, trying to justify Chinese intellectual property theft.”

    Lol, they stole it already, are hacking into your systems every day, and have spies all over your country that your “Ivy Leagues” conveniently educated, and your corporations gave access with desire for profit vs security.

    What you gonna do about it? They have it. They are now educated as well.

    Doesn’t need to be “justified.” It exists. Who cares if something is “wrong” or “illegal” if there is no penalty to be paid.

    Be very careful imposing penalties on other countries. Paint someone into a corner and you might get a punch in the teeth that you were not prepared for. America is long overdue for a big azz kicking thanks to the boomers and it just might get one. How much crying over 3k people when a couple of buildings fell. Still so unorganized that it can’t even manage it’s inhabitants long enough to get them to do something as simple as wear a mask.

    Stay tuned.

  76. BRT says:

    Obama and Hillary both talked about tariffs in attempt to target voting blocks. Hillary did it in PA with respect to steel. Trump was a broad spectrum approach. And he didn’t just do it to China. Obama was completely absent on IP theft. But that was my point entirely. No one on the left would criticize Obama for an isolated tariff. The second Trump does it “tariffs don’t work, unless of course, it’s retaliatory from another country, then they work against us.” At some point the left needs to get over the my side good your side bad side of this argument and embrace it for the sake of the US worker. At the same time, Republicans need to resist the urge to turn back into pure market ideologues on this issue if the Dems tilt this way.

    Trump also responded with tariffs in any instance another nation, like Canada, would have on us. The “trade war” should go further to unwind the import/export market with China. The approach was right. Unwind the production side of manufacturing and backstop the farms so they can adjust their production accordingly without being victims in this debacle.

  77. Phoenix says:

    “It should also be noted that the Chinese government has caused the death of tens of millions of it’s own citizens without a single care.”

    Sounds like a worthy adversary. One that is willing to fight to the death at all costs. The type you don’t underestimate. All with a manufacturing ability with an extremely skilled workforce. Millions working in America and know how every nuance of this country works. Technologically capable. Gathering data every minute of the day.

    Game on!

  78. Phoenix says:

    5g will help you steal data 20x faster, at 20gb per second. Too bad you did not manufacture those chips in your own country.

    One wrong command line in the software….

  79. BRT says:

    This idea that masks are the magic bullet needs to die a quick death. The CDC, on their site, said, at no point is a mask a substitute for social distancing. The mask has given the general public a false sense of security. There are 2 people at work that will literally try to talk to you with their face 6 inches from yours while they simultaneously complain through an email thread about how the schools should be shut down.

    In the study that grim posted back in April? the scientists who came up with a comprehensive opening plan stated clearly to get back to work, people should be wearing filtering masks (n95) as cloth masks were shown in studies (prior to politicization) to reduce influenza like diseases by at best 9%.

    Masks can help slow the spread…by 10% at best. The other 90% relies on human behavior, which started to go out the window in June and completely out the window in Sept.

  80. BRT says:

    Sounds like a worthy adversary. One that is willing to fight to the death at all costs. The type you don’t underestimate. All with a manufacturing ability with an extremely skilled workforce. Millions working in America and know how every nuance of this country works. Technologically capable. Gathering data every minute of the day.

    Game on!

    Or we could just decouple and ignore them.

  81. Phoenix says:

    The American government was concerned with Tik-Tok and data stealing. Now there is some humor.
    What it should have worried about is how it’s teaching the youth just how stupid the adults of America are, how they tell kids to “Bee Kind” while running around like Crazy Karens, how your police force blows away innocent civilians, and how although they are supposed to be truthful, that their president lied half of the time he spoke. Not to forget the crazy response to Covid, or how their so called “educated” teachers can’t even operate technology correctly.

    That’s the real lesson of Tik Tok. Hey kids look around you. Should you listen to any of these muppets? They have no integrity.

  82. Phoenix says:

    BRT,
    Americans are addicted consumers. Years of American Brainwashing Marketers.

    You gonna undo that? Ha.

    Women still want a diamond ring on their fingers no matter how many years they have been suckers to DeBeers.

  83. Phoenix says:

    “This idea that masks are the magic bullet needs to die a quick death.”
    Until you get a proven working vaccine, they are the ONLY bullet. And yes, they do work, but like any tool, they have to be used correctly, and have limitations. Why is that so hard for a typical American to understand?

    “There are 2 people at work that will literally try to talk to you with their face 6 inches from yours while they simultaneously complain through an email thread about how the schools should be shut down.”
    And these are the “so called” educated ones. I can’t remember, which comedian was it who said ” you can’t fix stupid? Oh yeah, Ron White. Scotch guy.

  84. Phoenix says:

    Not only that, but masks help keep the drool off the shopping cart handles and the floor.

  85. Phoenix says:

    Decouple-
    It’s funny, I seem to remember someone suggesting ordering things direct from China vs Amazon, IDK, using Alibaba or one of those other direct marketing companies.

    I think the item purchased was a Honda clone weed trimmer powerhead with attachments. The details escape me right now.

    Americans don’t even want to foot the bill for genuine Honda even when they can easily afford it.

    It’s a mentality. Takes time to change that.

  86. Bystander says:

    Sorry but this is s*ciali*m to get voting in mid states. And define a farmer? These are corporations getting paid giant sums, not little Johnny Hayseed. 1 side calls it a back stop and other a bail out when not in office. Without legislation or big pain in corporate sector then nothing changes, and it won’t

  87. BRT says:

    Um, are you implying that was me, because it wasn’t. But it doesn’t matter, that type of argument doesn’t hold water. Of course the market is going to go to the lowest price. You can’t just will it. The whole “buy American” policy doesn’t work. That’s why you tariff them out of competition to force domestic production. Market forces are the only mechanism to fix it, but you can’t unless you artificially remove China from the equation.

  88. BRT says:

    Until you get a proven working vaccine, they are the ONLY bullet. And yes, they do work, but like any tool, they have to be used correctly, and have limitations. Why is that so hard for a typical American to understand?

    Again, nearly every study leading up to this showed approximately a 10% effectiveness at best. These are awful numbers. Again, I think we should be wearing them, because 10% is better than 0. But masks are simply a small part of the equation. Proper social distancing is a heck of a lot more, and April/May proved that.

  89. BRT says:

    Bystander, you need to differentiate between an industry that suddenly has the rules changed on them and a banker that financed subprime loans.

  90. Phoenix says:

    “Um, are you implying that was me, because it wasn’t.

    Nope, no implication. It was someone on here though. I just remember about the item cause I owned the real deal at one point.

  91. Phoenix says:

    “Proper social distancing is a heck of a lot more, and April/May proved that.”

    Americans lack discipline and self control, and are too self centered to ever want to follow rules. Just look at the average BMI of typical Americans, it’s an indicator. Nor do most trust their government and with good reason. Your youth have seen how the adults lie and cheat with no integrity so there is that. Many don’t even believe scientists or their own doctors. Closet racists hiding everywhere. Soccer moms spitting on people and yelling at young fast food workers.

    Take off that mask, walk into the room, and take a long deep breath.
    If that’s what you want to do, so be it.

  92. SomeOne says:

    Joyce,


    Hey Gary,
    When does the responsibility for good news transition from being the current administration’s success to the next?

    When does the responsibility for bad news transition from being the current administration’s fault to the next?

    George Bernard Shaw provides the answer:
    I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

  93. 3b says:

    Phoenix: But at the end of the day will the Chinese fight in a war? Some say the Chinese army although a million strong won’t fight, as they have been coddled since birth, especially with the one child policy that was in place. Also parents camping out next to universities in case their kids need anything. Also are the young Chinese into the whole motherland nonsense, like the kids from the cultural revolution days? Or would they rather be tied to their phones and obsessed with western popular culture?

  94. SomeOne says:

    Phoenix:

    Women still want a diamond ring on their fingers no matter how many years they have been suckers to DeBeers.

    Because, it is an “American Tradition [TM]” that our “Founding Fathers [TM]” envisioned, even if DeBeers pulled a marketing stunt in 1930’s…

  95. 3b says:

    Bystander: We are getting pretty close to the end of printing to generate wealth.

  96. Phoenix says:

    3b,
    Who knows? But when you are forced to fight you will. I don’t think Chinese kids will be less obedient than American kids, however. Some high school kid just tackled a ref cause he did not like the call. Huge kid.

    In my work I have seen 13 year old’s that weigh more and are taller than I am. So many variations in humans.

  97. Bystander says:

    Did the airline industry suddenly have rules change or Amtrak? Let’s just call it, s*cial*sm to save jobs. That is what we are about. Once funded it is nearly impossible to remove. When you let the Moz*llos of world employ 60k and subprime goes belly up, politicians throw money to ensure those 60k have a place to land. Mortgage industry different? You really think Gre*nspan and Fed were stupid to not see what was happening. Banks did as they were told. Fed wants full job rate and growth. They don’t care if it blows up. Print more, more debt. Prez is just a political vehicle to who gets it. One side cries s*cial*sm and the other ‘supporting American workers’. Pawns until it all goes belly up.

  98. Phoenix says:

    Because, it is an “American Tradition [TM]” that our “Founding Fathers [TM]” envisioned, even if DeBeers pulled a marketing stunt in 1930’s…

    No, it’s because we have elevated them to a point where they can freely go around screaming at the general public and get away with it. A place where they can call the police on you when you tell them they walked their dog in the wrong place. A place where they can make up a story and due to their “virtue” take your job, career, or your children.

    “White women are positioned as the virtue of society because they hold that position as the mother, as the keepers of virtuosity, all these ideologies that we associate with white motherhood and white women in particular, their certain role in society gives them power.”

  99. Phoenix says:

    “We are getting pretty close to the end of printing to generate wealth.”

    So what is the end result? Cause Biden is about to warm up the printing presses again.

  100. Phoenix says:

    Haha. An attorney that no longer believes or subscribes to the court system. That might be the one thing I actually agree with him about. Courts are a joke.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9020667/Rudy-Giuliani-says-dont-need-courts-judges-SIX-states-dismiss-appeals.html

  101. 3b says:

    Phoenix: Collapse. And tear the whole system down.

  102. Fast Eddie says:

    One of my stock holdings just did a 4 for 1 split. Thank you, President Trump!

  103. ExEssex says:

    Trump had about as much to do with that stock split as he did with the BM i took this morning..

  104. ExEssex says:

    Eddie you and everyone else rooting for Trump are traitors.

  105. Phoenix says:

    Trump is removing all of the troops from Somalia. I am not a Trump “fan,” but I don’t have TDS either and I approve of these troops coming home.

    Confirmation bias is some nasty s4it.

  106. Chicago says:

    So what?

    Fast Eddie says:
    December 5, 2020 at 11:27 am
    One of my stock holdings just did a 4 for 1 split. Thank you, President Trump!

  107. Ex says:

    WASHINGTON — Over the past week, President Trump posted or reposted more than 130 messages on Twitter lashing out at the results of an election he lost. He mentioned the coronavirus pandemic now reaching its darkest hours four times — and even then just to assert that he was right about the outbreak and the experts were wrong.

    Moody and by accounts of his advisers sometimes depressed, the president barely shows up to work, ignoring the health and economic crises afflicting the nation and largely clearing his public schedule of meetings unrelated to his desperate bid to rewrite the election results. He has fixated on rewarding friends, purging the disloyal and punishing a growing list of perceived enemies that now includes Republican governors, his own attorney general and even Fox News.

    The final days of the Trump presidency have taken on the stormy elements of a drama more common to history or literature than a modern White House. His rage and detached-from-reality refusal to concede defeat evoke images of a besieged overlord in some distant dictatorship defiantly clinging to power rather than going into exile or an erratic English monarch imposing his version of reality on his cowed court.

  108. Phoenix says:

    Ex,
    America voted him in. What did you expect when you made a celebrity from the TV show the Apprentice the President of the United States?

    You chose a muppet, you got one. It’s more of a reflection of the goobers shuffling around you than anything else.

    This country is going to need to crash like a Windows 95 Blue screen of death, with a full reboot and all data lost.

  109. Ex says:

    Hahaha i wish.

  110. Crushednjmillenial says:

    Argentina’s legislature passed a wealth tax, applicable to those with wealth of about $2.5M+.

    Bankers in Miami cheer.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-latin-america-55199058

  111. BRT says:

    Did the airline industry suddenly have rules change or Amtrak? Let’s just call it, s*cial*sm to save jobs.

    I was referring to the soy farmers.

    That is what we are about. Once funded it is nearly impossible to remove. When you let the Moz*llos of world employ 60k and subprime goes belly up, politicians throw money to ensure those 60k have a place to land. Mortgage industry different? You really think Gre*nspan and Fed were stupid to not see what was happening.

    Yes I do think Greenspan and Bernanke had no idea. They were on CNBC interviews touting the same “data analysis” used to justify this, and all their wall st. boys were a deer in the headlights. If they truly knew, they would have gotten rich off the insider knowledge. The only one who saw it late in the game was goldman because smart guys were making bets and they started paying attention.

    Even after Bear Collapsed, I predicted Lehman’s collapse and everyone else as well. It was obvious. But instead, they went how much longer before it blew up in their face again. They all had the same exposure. All the big players were clueless, and the fed was the worst offender.

  112. Phoenix says:

    Enjoy,
    This is your new puppet master, in case you did not like the speed, direction and velocity of the way your last puppet master pulled you.

    You are still in the brig, just a new warden in place.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/12/05/neera-tanden-biden-omb-cap/

  113. njtownhomer says:

    Stock split on wealth effect is equivalent to MI county searching in MN. Same thing, ultimate ignorance.

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