C19 Open Discussion Week 40

From NJ Business Magazine:

NJBIA’s 62nd Annual Business Outlook Survey

In last year’s Business Outlook Survey, most respondents said they were anticipating an economic downturn. 

But no one saw this coming in their 2020 vision. 

The onset of the COVID-19 pandemic resulted in an economic meltdown, with unforeseen closures of operations and record unemployment, to say nothing of consumer confidence as masked shoppers treaded lightly throughout the nation. 

Nowhere has this been more felt than in New Jersey, the state that maintained its shutdown for the longest period and has been a national outlier in terms of pace of reopening and capacity levels. 

Many of the results of NJBIA’s 2021 Business Outlook Survey are what you might expect for such a devastating plunge of New Jersey’s economy. Revenue losses were severe, with a whopping 76% of respondents experiencing decreased earnings through the first eight months of 2020 – including some deeper losses in healthcare and transportation.

Moreover, 77% said they believe they will continue to incur losses as the survey was being fielded in September – with 27% saying they would continue to lose revenue through the rest of 2020 and 33% forecasting continued losses through the first half of 2021.

There certainly was no shortage of efforts by employers to right the ship during the stormy seas of 2020. Some 56% said they sought additional or alternative funding sources through federal and state loans and grants, while 59% reduced expenses and overhead. Among those decreased expenses were reduced salaries (20%), furloughed employees (22%), and laid-off workers (23%). 

Recovery-wise, 47% said they will either take more than a year, or never will, generate profits lost during non-essential business closures. 

And, looking ahead to 2021, healthcare coverage could certainly be impacted as a result of this reduced revenue. Out of the 72% of respondents who offered health insurance in 2020, 28% of them said they’ll discontinue that coverage in 2021. 

Concerns about increasing the minimum wage and the potential legal impacts of recreational cannabis were also raised, as in years past. But with the onset of the coronavirus, a new worry has emerged in the form of litigation brought by those who claim they contracted the disease while at the workplace. 

With all of this, there was the expected negative outlook for New Jersey’s economy in 2021, particularly compared to the forecast for the national economy. 

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253 Responses to C19 Open Discussion Week 40

  1. ExEssex says:

    Trump is a grifting traitor.

  2. dentss dunnigan says:

    Murphy is a gifting traitor

  3. Bystander says:

    They’re all grifting traitors.

  4. Very Stable Genius says:

    Mellissa Carone, Giuliani’s star witness in the Trump campaign’s election fraud case, harassed her fiance’s ex-wife by sending her sex tapes

    Tom Porter
    Dec 6, 2020, 6:28 AM

    Mellissa Carone, a witness in the Trump campaign’s election fraud lawsuit in Michigan, was recently on probation for harassing her fiance’s ex-wife, it emerged on Saturday.

    Over two years, Carone harassed the woman and sent her tapes of herself having sex with the boyfriend.

  5. Phoenix says:

    Women are allowed to sexually harass. Society says that is okay. You know, that equality, metoo stuff only applies when a man is involved.
    Just like when BRT’s or Pumpy’s female colleagues molest a child they are given probation vs a sentence that a man would get.

  6. Ex says:

    The top 1% of households own 43% of global wealth, 10% owns 81%, while the bottom 50% have just 1%.

  7. Fast Eddie says:

    Houses still going like hot cakes. Everyone that posts a “for sale” sign follows up with an “under contract” sign within a week or two. Even on main streets, nothing is sitting.

  8. joyce says:

    Thank you, President … ______?

    Fast Eddie says:
    December 6, 2020 at 1:59 pm
    Houses still going like hot cakes. Everyone that posts a “for sale” sign follows up with an “under contract” sign within a week or two. Even on main streets, nothing is sitting.

  9. Walking says:

    Phoneix, speaking of women’s rights, and it’s my body. when I wanted to get my vasectomy and told the doc I’m done because 4 kids are enough. He still needed my wife to agree. Legally not required but didn’t want the law suit. This was 2010 not 1990. Otherwise he said I could go somewhere else . Planned parenthood?

  10. 3b says:

    Fast: I agree, and you know as well as I, That is not a good thing.

  11. ExEssex says:

    Home is key right now as we lock down again. People are saving money like never before. Stock market is always a gamble. Smart money always goes into homes.

  12. 3b says:

    Exssex: houses at these levels are just as much as a gamble if not more so than stocks. To think otherwise is foolish.

  13. Very Stable Genius says:

    Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former New York City mayor and President Trump’s personal and campaign lawyer, has tested positive for the coronavirus, Mr. Trump announced on Twitter on Sunday.”

  14. Fast Eddie says:

    Let’s hope for a good 2021 for everyone. Let’s wish for health and happiness for all of us, for our family and our friends.

  15. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Show me “a livable” area anywhere in the world where real estate has not gone up in 30 years. That’s why it’s a no brainer long term store of wealth. Short-term, it can get dangerous if you bought high, but long term it’s a no brainer investment.

    3b says:
    December 6, 2020 at 3:45 pm
    Exssex: houses at these levels are just as much as a gamble if not more so than stocks. To think otherwise is foolish.

  16. SomeOne says:


    Show me “a livable” area anywhere in the world where real estate has not gone up in 30 years.

    Are you suggesting that people should buy multiple houses as investments? The prop taxes, maintenance, headaches collecting rentals, and over-extension because of leverage. How would a scenario where one buys a reasonable sized house for oneself and put everything else into a simple index fund compare vs owning multiple properties?

  17. Walking says:

    Someone: the beauty of real estate vs index fund is depreciation. If your in a 28% bracket plus, it’s a nice chunk of change to keep. I don’t mind the extra work as I already have 2 jobs so re management is just side gig. I’ve learned now in my forties that I can’t sit still for too long and need the extra work 24×7 to keep me busy. One day I’ll enjoy it

  18. WickedOrange says:

    Goldman Plots Florida Base for Asset Management in a Blow to New York

  19. njtownhomer says:

    The RE bubble is at the low end in NJ. So many zip codes in TX, UT, CO are seeing 10-15% yearly increases in value according to zillow. In my neighborhood 5-6% at max.

    was quite interesting. The real estate guy was claiming that it is now the cheapest time to buy a property (according to payments) and expect a year or two this bubble (due to covid and WFH).

  20. BRT says:

    Italy registering a ton of deaths. Almost 1000 a day. They are so bad they are now only half of the deaths per 100,000 that NJ and Murph registered.

  21. D-FENS says:

    Goldman Pulling up stakes from NYC…looking to move HQ to Florida


    Manhattan now has the most office space available since the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks. This time, the trend began even before the pandemic struck, with AllianceBernstein Holding LP shaking up city boosters in 2018 with plans to move its headquarters to Nashville.

    Inside Goldman, sentimental attachment to the city where it rose to prominence is taking a back seat to the company’s ambitious target unveiled early this year to cut $1.3 billion in costs, in part by shifting employees to cheaper locales. It’s unclear how many people could eventually go to Florida. In the last decade, Goldman has incrementally expanded offices in places like Dallas and Salt Lake City to thousands of jobs in an effort to trim expenses. The virus has cemented its resolve to accelerate that shift.

  22. Bystander says:

    Don’t worry D. Our resident teacher’s union dufus will call Mr. Solomon and explain that NYC is the center of the universe and it is stronger than ever. It is well worth the extra billions in taxes GS will pay and you will never replace the amazing workforce with talent in FL. Prices in NYC will never go down either and people are making smart choices buying overpriced houses in suburbia. Rates are so low afterall. All is fine.

  23. 3b says:

    Defens Not really news for those of us in the street this has been quietly happening before Covid. Geographically agnostic is the term being used.

    NYC and the surrounding area priced itself out. High prices and taxes are not a good thing. NYC and surrounding area need a price reset to become competitive again.

  24. NotPumpSupporter says:

    You guys have been repeating this NY /suburbs story since 2008 and still it has been going up. Anyone listed to some of you folks have missed the boat and are priced out.

    Taxes are a mess but once Mr Biden repeals SALT, then the prices will go up again.. How do you guys rationalize SFO prices?? which are 3X NY suburb prices and have shot up 150% since 2013 and here it is probably not more than 30%.

    Sub 2% interest rate is there to stay and stock market isn;t a great choice either on optics. What do you people think people will do when they get a 500K mortgage for $2K. The same house would cost 3K to rent.

    Prices are bad and need to be competitive but aren’t coming down anytime soon for next 3-4 years.

    All the NY crowd which went to boonies due to COVID will be asked to come back and they won’t go back to the city but will push prices even higher in suburbs. Because they are used to a yard and space and Manhattan doesn’t provide it.

    NY isn’t dead either. Look at Mumbai and HK.. People sleep in 4×6 dorms. So NY will be fine so is suburbs.

  25. NotPumpSupporter says:

    Also the influx of new people into low rated school districts like Secaucus, Clifton, Lyndhurst, Rutherford, East RU, Woodridge, HBH etc, the rating has been creeping up due to ton of Indians and Chinese, immigrants moving in who go to any extent to have their kids good education. So these kids are driving up the school district ratings slowly.

    So the hardcore Blue-ribbon far away places like Princeton, bla bla will lose interest.. So if you buy now, buy in a near Manhattan commutable suburb and you will be fine.

    Don’t go to boonies like Princeton OR bridgewater etc

    Wayne is Ok too. not to far.

  26. Chicago says:

    Sub 2% interest rates are here to stay?

    WTF are you talking about?

  27. Juice Box says:

    GS Asset Mgmt division maybe has about 1,000 jobs in NYC working @ 200 West Street. The building pre-covid had about 7500 people working there, now maybe 1000 show up to that building every day? It was built new by them opened 10 years ago and has a special tax abatement that may be expiring, it was given huge tax breaks to build in that spot there after 9/11 including special bonds to finance it, so 10 years are up they might be looking for another 100 million in tax breaks to stay there.

    So they also may also have few partners working out of their homes in West Palm area who now want to move the office to be near them in Florida, which sounds more like a retirement plan to me or it is just a negotiating tactic for the tax break with NYC.

  28. Chicago says:

    Left: Tell me dear G-d you took that Kodak short off

  29. 3b says:

    Here we go again with the multiple personalities posting.

  30. leftwing says:

    LOL, thanks for concern. Not shares, ratio spreads.

    I’m good pretty disciplined…hit 50% up on the spread, dump the long put, keep the shorts. Will close them out once vol settles down after open and look to reload the spread again today/tomorrow.

    Stock 70% up on the government finding a company didn’t do something illegal…how’s that for an investment threshold…”Kodak, even though you may think we break we don’t [tm]”..company still incompetent and in financial distress….candy from a baby…..

  31. leftwing says:

    *break the law*

  32. Juice Box says:

    The Bezos from Poland Piotr Szulczewski makes it to the Billionaire class.

    Wish.com filing for IPO. They once turned down 20 million buyout offer from Facebook.

  33. Bystander says:

    “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised” as they say, DufusSockPuppet #3. People staying will both need high income with stable jobs, just to tread water. They will work harder and longer for less and less. Their home value with go-nowhere especially when rates rise. We’ve seen this play previously. When fed raised rates a little, stocks tanked and prices nose-dived. The Fed money printing caused major housing inflation as intended to keep wealthy happy. There was no real economy at work here which is why country continues to degrade. We know the grift of your Granny right before RE took off as skewed your view. She ate Alpo at the end in her basement apt. Nice work.

  34. leftwing says:

    Chi, Reloaded my long leg. Half of my final hold position.

  35. BRT says:

    lol, Princeton is the boonies?

  36. BRT says:

    The top 1% of households own 43% of global wealth, 10% owns 81%, while the bottom 50% have just 1%.

    Don’t worry, your governor is hellbent on destroying that remaining 10%.

  37. ExEssex says:

    A new Gallup poll has found that President-elect Joe Biden is already more popular among Americans than President Trump has been at any point during or immediately before his presidency.
    Biden’s favorability rating rose by 6 points to 55% since the election compared to his last pre-election survey, according to a Gallup survey carried out after the election.
    Over the same period, Trump’s favorability rating decreased by 3 points to 42%.
    Trump has not recorded a favorability rating above 50% at any point during his presidency, according to Gallup polling.

  38. Phoenix says:

    Don’t worry. You are a govt. employee therefore exempt.

  39. Phoenix says:

    Covid bill. Pony up.


  40. Phoenix says:

    Boomer don’t care, Medicare pays.

  41. Phoenix says:

    Money for college tuition.


  42. BRT says:

    I know where the money from my salary comes from. The taxpayers can only be gutted for so long.

  43. Libturd says:

    That looks about right Phoenix.

  44. A Home Buyer says:

    The top 1% of households own 43% of global wealth, 10% owns 81%, while the bottom 50% have just 1%.

    Ooooo, Numbers… my favorite!

    So “global wealth”, that includes places like Inda, China, and Idontgiveatuck-a-stan.

    The “poorest” Americans are generally in the top 10% globally if only because our poor have access to infrastructure the global poor do not. So congratulations, we are all part of the global equity problem.

    But onwards to Redistribution! If we take the estimated 247,000 Billion (estimated 43% of the 2019 wealth of the global “1%”) and fully Animal Farm it to the remainder of the bottom 90% entire population (4.68 billion of the 90% who are adults) in the name of Fairness…

    You would give the world’s adult poor a whopping one time installment of $52,000 while eating the 1% entirely.

    As mentioned above, the 1-10% excluded in this scenario would cover most Americans and you’d get nothing. But even if the average American was eligible for that redistribution the average American owes 63,000 just to the federal government to pay for everything they see around them, not to mention state debt, college debt, house debt, car debt… medical debt… credit card debt… environmental debt (piper needs to be paid eventually for the destruction)… spousal debt (ahem). :)

    Fun fun!

    (As always, anyone feel free to check my math)

  45. Phoenix says:

    Don’t think for a minute someone won’t slap a lien on that well manicured property in NJ if you don’t pay up.

    Unless you make it till Medicare age. Healthcare for life. Everyone else don’t say you have not been warned.

    Debt collection is one of the few things America is actually quite good at. It’s about the only thing the legal system actually does quite efficiently.

  46. Phoenix says:

    Any man is one divorce away from being poor. One call to the popo it will become much clearer to you.

  47. Libturd says:

    A Home Buyer.

    Your math is most likely correct. The problem with it though, is you are working in absolutes. As much as it does not make sense for anyone to really have excess wealth, it makes even less sense for one person to have that same wealth if a single person is starving and you can easily afford to give that person a free meal.

    Imagine a world of 10 people. 1 is rich, 6 are comfortable and 3 are starving. In my eyes, 1 can still be rich and still help out the three who are starving without taking much of a hit to their well being.

    Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman found that the average effective tax rate paid by the richest 400 families (0.003%) in the US was 23 percent, more than a percentage point lower than the 24.2 percent paid by the bottom half of American households. This is simply unconscionable.

    You are right. You can’t solve the poverty issue by sacking the rich. But you can certainly help it.

  48. BRT says:

    Rutgers just hired an equity warrior for $300k a year. Maybe first step as equity warrior should be to not make 6 times your average employee there.

  49. A Home Buyer says:

    if a single person is starving

    And this is where you begin to scare me. :)

    It does pain me to see people in their position, or to imagine my family in a similar position. But the world is what it is too, with all 5 billion poor.

    I am not against raising taxes, my point is to emphasize the upper boundary for helping them and show how marginal it is. But how much of their</EM wealth are you willing to sack to marginally help the poor?

  50. NotPumpSupporter says:

    NY and suburbs RE is here to stay.

    I know pumps was probably just lucky making calls but almost all the rest of the crowd here were proven 100% wrong in the last 10 years AND they still have the face to keep saying the same useless story again and again and they have their similar mindset folks ( who were also losers when it came to NJ RE calls) still posting that NY metro RE is doomed..

    I think a lot of these folks are bored near- retirement folks or too old to see the 2020s. Thatz the only reason I would think of for these denials.

  51. Fast Eddie says:

    I mentioned the price of gold and silver the other day and how frustrating I find it to buy at current levels. I toyed with it a lot in back the early 2000s when gold was around $400/ounce and silver around $5/ounce. It was so easy to buy $100 face of junk silver coin and $10 gold eagles, etc. Buying and selling seemed to be part of the fun. Now, the ask price for $1 face of %90 silver coin is around 20 bucks. It drives me mad to think of all I sold at around $6 per ounce when it’s $24 plus right now. Oh well. I did it for fun but I wish I held it. Silver spiked to $48 per ounce a few years ago.

    My point is, I think housing is the same. As much as it seemed that 2008 prices were ridiculous, it may just be that the NJ/NY is going to resemble Palo Alto style prices within the next decade. My beef has always been the fat f.uck muppets demanding top dollar for the Chesterfield and Rheingold aroma. I still feel that way. If you don’t take care of your house and button it up, then you don’t deserve your ridiculous asking price. I know housing is cyclical but I get this feeling we’re on a bull run with housing for a long stretch… especially with WFH becoming the norm. NYC is NYC and will always be and seeing a play, visiting a museum, going to a concert is a short train to and from the suburbs. Why commute if you don’t need to, given that you have your own little oasis. Just some random thoughts here.

  52. 3b says:

    Fast: I disagree it was the Fed who put a floor under housing price declines 10 years ago. They should have let it go and cleanse the excess. Now we are where we are, and the Fed is out of bullets contrary to what they say. And the young people are going to pay dearly for their recklessness.

  53. leftwing says:

    “The top 1% of households own 43% of global wealth, 10% owns 81%, while the bottom 50% have just 1%.”

    How could anyone be surprised by this stat? Really?
    It should probably be more skewed.

    50% of working age people in the US do not generate enough economic gains to even pay Federal income taxes.

    If on a day-to-day basis a person is economically inconsequential, how in the world can one have any expectation of that person possessing any wealth whatsoever?

    A fourth grader would understand this concept.

  54. JCer says:

    Pumps, I put my money where my mouth is and am way over exposed to NNJ real estate. Apple’s to apples this market(NY suburbs) up until recently was undervalued compared to many metro areas in the US. Most likely due to crushing property taxes which depress property values. Besides my obscene property taxes I paid 2x our annual salary(the wife and mine) for my home most people I know are under the 4x, Salaries in NYC are pretty high. Most couples we know earn around 300k, usually one spouse earns ~100k and the other ~15ok-200K, target houses for those people are in the 800-900k range. The housing prices somewhat align with salaries, with the current run up that is no longer the case(the housing market is INSANE, I keep hearing about 100k over ask on 800k homes!). I suspect once rates go up or we get the epic covid related recession these prices will fall. If money was the concern I’d sell now and take my profits(I could probably net 400k from a 2016 purchase of a foreclosure), but that is not why we bought a home, it’s a place to live not an investment.

    WFH and the rush to value locations from the banks is a big concern, the NYC salaries are largely driven by the banks, they pay because the work is soul sucking and it serves to raise all wages as companies compete for talent. This is bad news for NYC, we are facing headwinds for the foreseeable future, Mayor DeBlastard also isn’t helping, NYC is turning into a h*llhole, covid is killing the businesses that make people want to be there. Quite literally at the moment there is no reason to be in NYC professional or otherwise.

    To lib, redistribution of any kind does not work for a very simple reason. The “altruists” who call for the redistribution either get corrupted or “replaced” by people looking to enrich themselves, the money never winds up helping people…..it will never be enough and they’ll tax us all until we are broke.

  55. JCer says:

    Eddie, in the early 2000’s I was in an analyst program at a major i-bank. I was ridiculed for suggesting the current market would crash and it would be smart to go long precious metals. I also warned countless people to avoid the firms equity plan as the stock price would surely collapse. Suffice it say people lost a bundle in that employee stock purchase plan…..people are still down 50% or more.

  56. leftwing says:

    Grim, can you release me from mod?

  57. leftwing says:

    “Imagine a world of 10 people. 1 is rich, 6 are comfortable and 3 are starving. In my eyes, 1 can still be rich and still help out the three who are starving without taking much of a hit to their well being.”

    We already have what you describe, Lib. It is the transfer payments that allow the 3 starving people to not starve on a daily basis, and live somewhere between “starving” and “comfortable” despite producing 1nconsequent1al economic gains to society as a whole.

    The application of this concept to wealth takes it to an entirely different level though and makes no m0ral or eth1cal sense whatsoever…

    The now former “starving” who subs1st comfortably enough day-to-day by the graces of (or forced conf1scation from) those generating economic returns are now looking around and saying….wait a minute, I’m living well enough now but how come I don’t have any savings?

    You have given me your incomes to survive, now give me your wealth so I may have savings too!

    In what world – outside of my and Phoenix’s specific circumstance – does that make any sense at all?

    PS. You and Gator look very comfortable together. Treat her well. Otherwise you will make it to CR, but as one of the “three”.

  58. chicagofinance says:

    Merrill or SSB

    JCer says:
    December 7, 2020 at 12:42 pm
    Eddie, in the early 2000’s I was in an analyst program at a major i-bank. I was ridiculed for suggesting the current market would crash and it would be smart to go long precious metals. I also warned countless people to avoid the firms equity plan as the stock price would surely collapse. Suffice it say people lost a bundle in that employee stock purchase plan…..people are still down 50% or more.

  59. chicagofinance says:

    BTW: does anyone know what happened to the “Badbank” at Citigroup? Did it just mature out?

  60. BRT says:

    Yes, Pumps was so right. NYC was an unstoppable juggernaut. Fast foward to today, the entire NYC service economy is in complete shambles, hundreds of thousands of people permanently moved out, vacancies hit all time highs, and they are begging for a bailout.

  61. Bystander says:


    When I was a young chap, probably 1998 or so I joined a start-up in DC that was competing with Verizon for business (per new telecom act of 1996). Of course, Verizon still owned last leg to customer and could f* us anytime with onboarding slowdown. Boy did they ever. No matter, silly money was being stuffed into these companies. To attract talent they offered to pay for leased BMWs or SUV for all employees. It was reimbursement really as employee owned leases. They also offered employee stock purchase plan, which was pre-IPO. I forget price, probably $15 share when valued at $20 or something. I can’t recall but I recall parking lot full of fancy BMW roadsters and new trucks. Lots of them probably made 25-30k/year. I knew lots of co-workers (of little means) buying $5k-10K of stock. Everyone was going to be rich. IPO hit in 2000 and stock went up. All execs cashed out immediately and quit. Employees were not allowed to sell during lock-up. Bubble burst a few weeks later and by summer, people out of job, had $500 lease and lost $10k in worthless stock. For whatever reason, I stayed out of BMW leasing and stock buy (maybe $200) so unscathed but I can’t forget to lowly people with families who lost it all.My boss ended up working for his church to survive with two kids and sole bread winner

  62. Bystander says:

    Grim, mod please

  63. Libtard says:

    The subways have become the homeless shelters. The number of mentally ill – induced violent crime down there lately is astounding. I could only imagine what’s going on by the rotunda.

  64. crushednjmillenial says:

    NYC metro area housing bull case on a 10-15 year timeline . . . mortgage interest rates stay low, finance and corporate WFH does not disperse the remote workers around the country too quickly, the Manhattan tech sector continues growing and causes some San Francisco-ization (high salaries pumping up housing prices while environmentally- and NIMBY-based sentiment causes new housing supply to remain restricted), continuation of historical easy immigration policies (1M+ new immigrants to US per year), billionaires and high millionaires around the world keep believing in “safe deposit boxes in the sky” in Manhattan, and Chinese tariffs remain muted.

    Bear . . . the reverse of any of the above; also, the local retiree-benefits/government debt problem finally explodes (whether it is NJ, CT, or NY), pre-fab or modular or CLT or other building technology makes new construction dramatically cheaper, acceleration of loony leftist policies in NYC (except one leftist policy – it is bearish for overall NYC metro housing prices if NYC reverses its recent rent stabilization law change, because the rent savings for those 1 million city households (which is well over 10% of our metro population) flows into other consumption), dramatic transportation improvements which make it possible to reach the NYC job centers from locations farther away, and an increase in the perception of NYC area residents of the housing/lifestyle opportunities offered by the emerging growing metros of the Sunbelt.

  65. BRT says:

    I’ll try to find my post from last December but it was my first time in NYC since the Met’s playoff game where Daniel Murphy went on a tear. I was disgusted with the city experience as a whole at that time. It’s only gotten worse. Much much worse.

  66. Libturd says:

    I think we are all just getting a bit old.

  67. BRT says:

    Eddie, in the early 2000’s I was in an analyst program at a major i-bank. I was ridiculed for suggesting the current market would crash and it would be smart to go long precious metals. I also warned countless people to avoid the firms equity plan as the stock price would surely collapse. Suffice it say people lost a bundle in that employee stock purchase plan…..people are still down 50% or more.

    No one ever admits to it though. Gold made a run from $300 to $2000 before settling down to the $1200 to 1300 range. Many on this board and elsewhere insisted we’d go back down to $300. Well, 10 years later, we’ve had ZIRP and QE the entire time. Now it’s making another run at $2000. Does it stop there?

  68. Very Stable Genius says:

    As His Term Ends, Trump Faces More Questions on Payments to His Hotel

    A civil case being pursued by the attorney general for the District of Columbia has brought renewed attention to what limits there should be on a president’s ability to profit from the office.

    By Eric Lipton
    Dec. 7, 2020, 12:32 p.m. ET
    WASHINGTON — It was a month before Donald J. Trump’s inauguration, and one of his aides had a delicate question: Wasn’t there going to be a backlash when it became known that the inauguration had spent donors’ money at Mr. Trump’s hotel in Washington, even though other places would cost much less or even be free?

  69. Fast Eddie says:

    Gold made a run from $300 to $2000 before settling down to the $1200 to 1300 range.

    I’d like to see a 50% regression on any precious metals only because I like collecting. I haven’t touched it in years. Last March was an opportunity when the DOW and precious metals declined. I need $10 to be shaved off of silver and I’d play a little.

  70. BRT says:

    I wish I delved more in Palladium back in the day. Just bought it cause I was a metals guy and thought it was cool. Would have been a home run investment but I only bought a few coins. Swapping them for gold soon. I’ll keep one for nostalgia.

  71. Libturd says:

    Precious metals.


    Compare the 100 year chart with the five year chart.

    This is very telling about the lack of floor under the current economy.

    Historic annual returns for metals, housing, DJIA is 1%, 4%, and 8% respectively. This is over a period of 100 years or so. There is no reverting means here. These are the means. Looking at old coins can be pretty cool. Unless the world collapses though, they are a terrible investment.

  72. Fast Eddie says:

    Unless the world collapses though, they are a terrible investment.

    Agree. A bag of old silver coins has a certain hunter/gatherer look and feel to it.

  73. JCer says:

    Lib exactly the line of reasoning I was fed at the time and it is true metals are a commodity, a stable store of value. At the moment precious metals aren’t particularly cheap. Only in a currency collapse will you look back and say I’m glad I held gold. So in the US it would have been a bad investment, in Argentina, Mexico, Venezuela you are thanking your lucky stars if you had assets not denominated in your currency.

    In the early 2000’s commodities were very, very, cheap, US monetary policy has devalued the dollar, we simply aren’t noticing it much because it’s a race to the bottom with other countries doing the same, goods are impossibly cheap due to efficiency gains and chinese dumping.

    The clear play was to move your assets out of equities and into doomsday assets before 2006 and then when tshtf to sell the doomsday assets at inflated prices and go back into the equities market. Today there was no clear indicator for covid and the the likely resulting recession, at this point it is probably to late to shift from equities into shiny. At 1200 or $1300 there is clear upside at $1900 there is potential downside. You buy shiny when everything is going great not in the middle of a pandemic…….

    I’d argue most portfolios should have some materials component and they don’t. unfortunately exposure from ETF’s will not cut it you need the actual asset.

  74. JCer says:

    BRT it’s funny, I looked at Palladium as gold was going up, it looked like it had a lot of upside potential especially because it is more useful than gold, intrinsically……….

  75. Libturd says:

    I wish there was a smart way to invest in OLED. :P

  76. Fast Eddie says:

    The clear play was to move your assets out of equities and into doomsday assets before 2006 and then when tshtf to sell the doomsday assets at inflated prices and go back into the equities market.

    If we all had this hindsight, we’d all be rich. :) But again, shiny is just to play with, it’s not an investment by any means. And let’s face it, if the shit hits the fan and we’re in a doomsday scenario, would anyone be saying thank goodness I have gold? Maybe if you had a few million in 10th of an ounce increments, perhaps that would give you and your loved ones a seat on the spaceship but otherwise, it’s just a toy.

  77. BRT says:

    I don’t believe in the world collapsing. Just currencies. All massive inflation is a reser button via clearing debt.

  78. Libturd says:

    Come on. Wall Street paid back the 30 billion they borrowed. How could there ever be a collapse? Just shift your bad assets to a new entity and declare it bankrupt.

  79. Bystander says:

    Speaking of corrupt and bankrupt, who says crime does not pay? For only 10-20k, you too can have a convicted felon keynote speaker responsible for ruining the lives of countless people. Choose from the glitzy former CFO of Enron for 20K..or for the bargain rate of 10K, the third exec responsible for Worldcom’s massive accounting fraud. Ethics lessons are not cheap afterall.



  80. BRT says:

    BRT it’s funny, I looked at Palladium as gold was going up, it looked like it had a lot of upside potential especially because it is more useful than gold, intrinsically……….

    I went heavy into Silver from 8 to 16. Maybe even bought some sub 20. More as a long term industrial play and knowing it’s incredibly range of applications and the monetary aspect. Always was fascinated with rhodium’s spike to $10k. Palladium is a great catalyst, but couldn’t forsee it making the rise it did without other catalytic metals following suit. I would surmise that there is a cap on Palladium prices in relation to Platinum given that the two metals are almost interchangeable in most applications I know of.

  81. BRT says:

    Speaking of corrupt and bankrupt, who says crime does not pay? For only 10-20k, you too can have a convicted felon keynote speaker responsible for ruining the lives of countless people. Choose from the glitzy former CFO of Enron for 20K..or for the bargain rate of 10K, the third exec responsible for Worldcom’s massive accounting fraud. Ethics lessons are not cheap afterall.

    They were rookies. They were supposed to settle out of court with no admission of wrong doing while paying a small fraction of what they stole as a fine. Speaking of crime…Elizabeth Holmes is still free, and she snagged a mega rich trust fund baby.

  82. chicagofinance says:

    Interesting…… my son was taking this entrance exam which had huge time pressure and was shocked when multiple Desi around him were done early with sections. Then we get this stuff today……

    Follow up: FRHSD Magnet Program Entrance Exam
    Dear Parents/Guardians:

    As a follow-up to our earlier communication:

    FRHSD was informed that a local test preparation company had provided the actual test that was administered as a study guide/preparatory test to the students who signed up for their private services. In looking into the allegations further, the District received additional information confirming that the exam had been compromised.

    We have reached out to the exam publisher and owner of the copyright to alert them to this security breach. This is obviously a very serious matter, and one that neither the District nor the test’s publisher is taking lightly.

    In light of this discovery, which created an impermissible and unfair advantage for certain students at the expense of others, the District has determined that the entrance exam that was administered on Saturday, December 5, 2020 will be voided.

    Due to this situation, application components and acceptance criteria for programs that require the entrance exam are being closely reviewed. Additional information will be provided in the near future.

    Thank you for your patience and understanding.


  83. chicagofinance says:

    Last December we walked from Radio City to GCT and I saw syringes in the street in multiple places….. sometimes in a short distance to a passed out person.

    Libturd says:
    December 7, 2020 at 3:12 pm
    I think we are all just getting a bit old.

  84. chicagofinance says:

    My first memory of the shift was in Chelsea seeing Depeche Mode in Sept 2017 at MSG. There was just tons of pot smoking everywhere….. I was thinking fcuk? I can’t walk the street with a scotch, why do these people get to do what they want?

    It was a bad look…… saw the same thing in Chicago too in 2019 ON MICHIGAN AVENUE…. just a bad vibe…

  85. chicagofinance says:

    I posted about this a few days ago…… gold is now just another ETF. It is correlated with the market, probably with a higher beta which makes it useless. Bitcoin is the new Gold.

    BRT says:
    December 7, 2020 at 3:15 pm
    Eddie, in the early 2000’s I was in an analyst program at a major i-bank. I was ridiculed for suggesting the current market would crash and it would be smart to go long precious metals. I also warned countless people to avoid the firms equity plan as the stock price would surely collapse. Suffice it say people lost a bundle in that employee stock purchase plan…..people are still down 50% or more.

    No one ever admits to it though. Gold made a run from $300 to $2000 before settling down to the $1200 to 1300 range. Many on this board and elsewhere insisted we’d go back down to $300. Well, 10 years later, we’ve had ZIRP and QE the entire time. Now it’s making another run at $2000. Does it stop there?

  86. ExAessex says:

    8:02 kudos on the show! Perhaps you’ve heard of a “flask”. Time-tested portable scotch delivery system.

  87. BRT says:

    Can’t it decouple though? I like the idea of Bitcoin, but never was sold on it enough to buy into it.

  88. chicagofinance says:

    Full crew…… son 11 and daughter 8.

    When my son saw this he said “holy sh!t”

    ExAessex says:
    December 7, 2020 at 8:08 pm
    8:02 kudos on the show! Perhaps you’ve heard of a “flask”. Time-tested portable scotch delivery system.

  89. ExAessex says:


  90. Juice Box says:

    I cannot remember an “adult” show where there was not Mary Jane or flasks, and my first show was Van Halen in April 1984….

  91. BRT says:


    how was your district under Kasun? If you don’t mind sharing opinions on the matter.

  92. Phoenix says:

    Didn’t miss it, just didn’t post it. Not necessary.
    The lesson has been taught and you will now notice it much easier.

    Like slow boiling a frog in a pot..

  93. Very Stable Genius says:

    He would be the first African-American to lead the Pentagon

    Transition Highlights: Biden Plans to Pick Lloyd Austin, Ex-Iraq Commander, for Defense Secretary
    Last Updated
    Dec. 8, 2020, 1:24 a.m. ETDec. 8, 2020

    A retired four-star general, he would be the first African-American to lead the Pentagon.

  94. zapaza19 says:


    A retired four-star general, he would be the first African-American to lead the Pentagon.


    Are we supposed to be impressed by this? WGAS….

    A sign of small minds.sigh.

  95. Very Stable Genius says:

    Trump Administration Passed on Chance to Secure More of Pfizer Vaccine

    The pharmaceutical company offered the government a chance to lock in additional supplies before its vaccine was proved effective in clinical trials.

    By Sharon LaFraniere, Katie Thomas and Noah Weiland
    Published Dec. 7, 2020
    Updated Dec. 8, 2020, 8:39 a.m. ET
    WASHINGTON — Before Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine was proved highly successful in clinical trials last month, the company offered the Trump administration the chance to lock in supplies beyond the 100 million doses the pharmaceutical maker agreed to sell the government as part of a $1.95 billion deal over the summer.

    But the administration, according to people familiar with the talks, never made the deal, a choice that now raises questions about whether the United States allowed other countries to take its place in line.

  96. Phoenix says:

    Like slow boiling a frog in a pot, meaning many won’t see it until their goose is cooked.
    It’s what happens when one things one gender is inherently good with the other inherently bad.

    In other news if Trump were on the apprentice and had to make corporate deals to secure vaccine would he have “fired” himself?

  97. Phoenix says:

    Ha. Fang Fang. Disappears into the night when the FBI comes looking. Don’t worry, there are probably hundreds of Fang Fangs all over America.

    Fang Fang, or Christine Fang, was reportedly an Intelligence operative with China’s Ministry of State Security. She remained in the California’s Bay Area from 2011 to 2015. Fang reportedly used campaign fundraising, networking, her charm and romantic relationships to get close with politicians. She helped Rep. Eric Swalwell (center) fundraise for his re-election campaign and interacted with him at several events. Fang also helped Tulsi Gabbard fundraise, and became well-known by California’s political scene. She reportedly had a romantic or sexual relationship with two Midwestern elected officials.

  98. 30 year realtor says:


    Sign of small minds? One can only imagine how small a mind it takes to not recognize the importance of breaking barriers for minorities. WGAS? Many minorities GAS because one more barrier has been broken down.

    Clearly it is you that has the small mind! 40% of American forces are minorities. About time a minority was in charge of the Pentagon!

  99. 3b says:

    Seems to be a lot more stories of women having sex with underage boys? Is this a thing now, or equality with men or something? Just asking.

  100. Comrade Nom Deplume, Embracing the Suck says:

    “RT says:
    December 7, 2020 at 1:14 pm
    Yes, Pumps was so right. NYC was an unstoppable juggernaut. Fast foward to today, the entire NYC service economy is in complete shambles, hundreds of thousands of people permanently moved out, vacancies hit all time highs, and they are begging for a bailout.”

    Flyover Country to NYC: Drop Dead

  101. Phoenix says:

    It is more common. And little to no prosecution. And called a “tryst” instead of molestation-it’s how female reporters write it in articles to downplay it as opposed to what they write about men. And how they are “victims” themselves. So many female teachers doing this today. Only reason they are getting caught at all is technology. So maybe that is it, they were doing it all along, but no cameras and no texts.

  102. 3b says:

    Phoenix: Could be, but if it’s more common my question is why more common today then in the past? It’s interesting.

  103. Phoenix says:

    After logging many hours on Zoom, Sarah Hayes became distressed.

    “I noticed my face was starting to look older: fine lines and droopy,” said the senior program manager for a financial firm in New Hampshire. “I’m definitely bothered by my lines more on video than in real life.”

    One thing leads to another.

  104. Phoenix says:

    Idk. Feminism perhaps? I watched a group of young girls eliminate one of my male co-workers from a leadership position due to jealousy. Guy pissed me off at times but I respected him as he was good at his job. Funny thing is now no one they put in the same role can even come close to his successes.

    Pretty faces and yoga pants have defeated many a man. It ain’t all sugar and spice, it ain’t all nice, and if you work with enough women you will find they are as dirty or dirtier than most men. Just remember to NEVER join in the conversation as you might end up in HR, you will go down, they will skate every time.

    Only one gender has “virtue.”

  105. LurksMcGee says:


    I think its more common in how we get national news more easily. Its become such a new “fad” for the news cycle, that FX has a show called “A Teacher” focusing on the this issue from a female teacher’s perspective. The sad part is that they include a narrative of that makes you “understand” why she’d do it – which I hope they flip and show why its wrong regardless.

    I’d also venture that young boys are less likely to say something (in previous times) than now.

  106. 3b says:

    Lurks: That is interesting. I wonder what exactly would be the teachers perspective? I agree with news/ trends whether real or not are much more readily reported today with social media and all.

  107. 3b says:

    Phoenix: I know a few women that are incredibly vicious , would put the biggest pr@ck guys to shame.

  108. Fast Eddie says:

    You guys were talking about palladium yesterday. Take a look at the 5-year chart. Dabbling four years ago would have netted you a nice return today:


  109. 3b says:

    So Zoom gives one facial lines!! Better hurry back to the office!

  110. JCer says:

    eddie it’s not hindsight it was a clear play at the time. If I had any assets outside of the apple stock I bought when people thought the company was going under in 1997(book value of hard assets was worth more than the market cap, sitting on a 30000% return unfortunately couldn’t invest enough money!) I would have shifted out of equities people were in denial about what was going to happen for 2-3 years, there was mas hysteria and asset prices were detached from intrinsic value. Hitting the exact lows and highs isn’t possible or predictable but generally timing the trends based on assets being over or undervalued based on sentiment. In general you can’t time it but sometimes things are sitting in front of you. Right now equities are a bad place to be but the question is what is a good place? It isn’t cash, too much inflation risk….. real estate and gold/precious metals ….too frothy. What is the safe haven at the moment?

  111. JCer says:

    BRT, bitcoin scares me. Too much potential for volatility, what is backing it besides shady operators? The only use as a currency is for criminals, what can you transact in bitcoin? Very early I toyed with the idea of mining it back when you could do it with spare cycles…unfortunately I didn’t the value went up so much I would have made a lot of free money….bitcoins were worth a few dollars today they are 20k. I would never have kept them long enough. It’s a stretch of the imagination for me, fractional reserve banking and the fed are bad enough, my money is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government…..with bitcoin your money is only backed by it’s ability to facilitate transactions, there is nothing of value backing it.

  112. Fast Eddie says:


    What is the safe haven at the moment?

    RE is the safe(est) haven since it takes so long to turn the ship. It’s a slow-moving pendulum. The so-called safe havens can be too volatile. Forget B1tcoin!! Equities aren’t safe haven, they’re living investments based on the living. Yes, they can have wild swings but like any storm, the water returns to it’s natural level. Until China unseats us through complacency (and perhaps stup1dity), the US dollar is still king.

  113. BRT says:

    I agree with everything you say, but if it were to collapse, I would have expected it to already. I think it’s here to stay. There was some kid who was one of the first miners. He threw out his hard drive. He would have had hundreds of millions of dollars.

  114. chicagofinance says:

    I have no knowledge of Kasun.

    Colts Neck is a Pre-K to 8 district. The high school in Colts Neck is more aptly titled the Freehold Regional High School District at Colts Neck. This facility is the one on 537 & Five Points by route 18. Actually that Kushner COAH development someone posted here a couple of weeks ago with the sewer hookups is across the street.

    Colts Neck high school draws the entire town of Colts Neck, but it also covers part of Marlboro, Freehold and Howell.

    I think FRHSD has about 8 high schools in it, and they have about 8-10 specialized programs. Students can apply to up to two. In my son’s case, he is interested in the program that happens to be housed in the Colts Neck high school, but that is just a coincidence. The two at Colts Neck are Law and Public Service and also ROTC, since we have Earle Navy base in the town footprint.

    The above test I believe was for all programs, so the Desi’s were likely targeting the Pre-Med program, but it was the same placement test.

    We separately have the option to look at the county level programs (Juice for you), which include the well rated and recognized High Technology (at Brookdale) and also Biotechnology (over by the Monmouth County Fair Grounds).

    My son’s personality has emerged significantly over the last 2-3 years in ways I could not have predicted. Anyway. I thought he would be High Technology, but I think he belongs in Law and Public service. He will get to do sports in the general population.

    In certain towns the competition for programs is fierce, but Colts Neck physically located central to all the best options, but the town population is small and academically mediocre. My son is basically going to be able to choose whatever he wants to do. Especially if this entrance exam is invalidated, he is almost an automatic now, because his teacher recommendation is actually the Principal of his middle school. Serious balls…… I give my son credit for everything. He earned it.

    I will bow to Stu’s eldest as the resident Alpha Progeny on these threads…….

    BRT says:
    December 7, 2020 at 10:18 pm
    chifi, how was your district under Kasun? If you don’t mind sharing opinions on the matter.

  115. Fast Eddie says:

    He would have had hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Not quite as big as if you took Rice over Marshall last week but a nice days work, nevertheless. :)

  116. ExEssex says:

    “Frankly, I don’t know, and frankly, I’m staying out of this. I can’t comment,” Slaoui said. “I literally don’t know.”

    “You don’t know?” asked anchor George Stephanopoulos.

    “Yes,” Slaoui said.

    “But you’re the chief science adviser for Operation Warp Speed,” Stephanopoulos pressed.

  117. ExEssex says:

    The chief scientist of the Trump administration’s Operation Warp Speed was unable to explain President Donald Trump’s latest executive order Tuesday, which aims to prioritize shipment of the coronavirus vaccine to Americans over other countries.

    Moncef Slaoui, who Trump tapped in May to head up the administration’s efforts to hasten vaccine development, appeared puzzled when asked to clarify the president’s order during an interview on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”

  118. ExEssex says:

    Day 2 – high winds, no power.
    Because SoCal Edison’s rolling blackouts.
    Picked up the last nice generator in the area
    last week. Running my fridge. Otherwise…chilled.

  119. BRT says:

    High Tech High is great. A old friend of mine graduate there, did engineering, then opened up his own machine shop in Arizona. He makes custom car parts. I want to say he’s a millionaire.

    The magnet school system is great for motivated students while it has a negative effect on the other high schools. But I’d say the good outweighs the bad in that case. I interviewed at high tech high 6 years ago but they went with someone else. Didn’t help the guy interviewing me was my study hall teacher in grade 10, where I habitually skipped and went and got pizza with friends.

  120. chicagofinance says:

    Dedicated to Phoenix:

  121. Libturd says:

    “I will bow to Stu’s eldest as the resident Alpha Progeny on these threads…….”

    My kid couldn’t hold a candle to Expat’s girls, though his younger daughter ate nothing but plain bread. Crazy the disorders that people develop.

    Speaking of my progeny, he has the rare combination of book smarts and common sense. Though his Achilles would be a poor self concept which he gets from his mother. Though, since the D went through his ordeal, Gator has become much more outspoken than she used to be. I suppose facing death can do that to you. Last night, we watched a zoom seminar from the former Dean of Admissions from a very strong school which is presented annually to high school Sophs and their parents. This dude has the best job in the world. I imagine he’s paid about $1,000 (perhaps more) for his presentation, which he appears to make four days a week throughout the school year. It’s very informative and he obviously knows his sh1t, but what a complete taxpayer fleecing he performs. He answered a total of two questions and presented for 100 minutes. If high schools up here were regionalized, he could have presented to the entire county at once. None the less, though my kid busts his ass to both achieve academically and athletically while simultaneously saving up for his first car by refereeing ice hockey games (he’s a level III ref already). His desire to go to a challenging school is meh. Perhaps my humble brags about doing quite well with my Montclair State degree hasn’t exactly lit the fire under his backside to go to a top school. The truth is, he doesn’t like to read and write that much, but math comes way too easy for him. He also is not a quick test taker, so that will work against him as well. Though, the boards are being looked upon less and less these days (as they should be). The presenter last night said COVID has accelerated this trend greatly.

    So how do you build confidence in a kid who is way too anxious which is probably the foundation for his lack of strong self-concept?

  122. LurksMcGee says:

    Burr is great

  123. Libturd says:

    In other news. Had my first prostate exam since I turned 50. First, it is way overhyped for what it is. Second, have no clue how any gay man could ever enjoy being a bottom (unless they are into a pain fetish, nor am I convinced any women takes pleasure having a man in that input either. On the bright side, all is good down there apparently.

  124. BRT says:

    So how do you build confidence in a kid who is way too anxious which is probably the foundation for his lack of strong self-concept?

    Confidence only comes with experience. I have students that get 96 to 100 on every single Physics exam who have the nervous nelly butterflies and freak out. Sometimes, they didn’t realize how good they were until a year later when they are doing something harder. I guess it’s always just challenging yourself that builds confidence.

  125. Bystander says:

    This is why the country is messed up. This is how AGs are spending their time? In battles that have nothing to do with their states. Maybe Biden should ask for a recount in TX to make sure no fraud. Afterall, he was leading then it suddenly disappeared by end of election night. Sounds fishy, right? Seriously? Orange clown f-in lost..by a lot. Trounced..one term loser. Move the f on.

    “The state of Texas, aiming to help President Donald Trump upend the results of the U.S. election, said on Tuesday it has sued Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin at the Supreme Court, calling changes those states made to election procedures amid the coronavirus pandemic unlawful.

    The long-shot lawsuit, announced by the Republican attorney general of Texas Ken Paxton, was being filed directly with the Supreme Court rather than with a lower court, as is permitted for certain litigation between states. The Supreme Court has a 6-3 conservative majority including three justices appointed by Trump”

  126. relo says:

    Ex, imagine if Stephanolous had pressed Biden on any of his debate questions? Just sayin’

  127. JCer says:

    Eddie, I disagree on RE, it’s not portable, has VERY specific use, and the valuation can be volatile. Furthermore the cost and difficulty of owning it makes it a very difficult investment. It can be the foundation of lasting wealth and has intrinsic value but it is FAR from a safe haven, if not bought for the right price you can totally lose your shirt on it. Plenty of people were land rich in burned out cities across america and they are now poor, lands value is dependent on people needing it for purpose. Or you could own multifamily(normally a slam dunk…) in a market where there are eviction moratoriums, the property is not performing and you have debt service to pay…..yes the value will recover but will we be able to retain the asset to see it?

    My fear with bitcoin is that the value is in facilitating transactions, what happens when someone develops a better platform or governments really crackdown? I’d be inclined to think the value goes down. It is not invulnerable, today the value in bitcoin is I can take it and exchange it for real cash, if that were to change no one will want it any longer. This is un-tread ground, even the cost per transaction is volatile. Ideally you’d have a decentralized platform where transaction cost was fixed and there was a direct and stable conversion(1bc = 100USD or something), government treatment of crypto globally makes it a non-ideal currency…..

  128. Bystander says:

    We really care about the health of our ‘student-athletes’ ..cough “revenue donkeys”

    Watch the Big ten rules change to get OSU extra game somewhere and into playoff. What a sham this whole season was.

    “No. 4 Ohio State could now be ineligible for Big Ten title after Michigan game gets canceled

    The game has been canceled due to COVID-19 cases at Michigan. The Wolverines were unable to play Dec. 5 against Maryland and do not have enough players to compete against the No. 4 Buckeyes.”

  129. crushednjmillenial says:

    Bitcoin/Crypto . . .

    If anyone is interested in cryptocurrency, I would be happy to send over a Binance referral code.

    Binance is a cryptocurrency website (“brokerage?”) that allows you to trade USD for crypto (including credit card to crypto), and trade crypto against crypto. Thousands of different coins, an exponential amount of trading pairs, derivatives, staking opportunities and P2P lending.

    If you sign up through my referral code, I will set it so we each receive 20% of your trading commissions. (Binance allows a referrer to allocate 40% total of a refer-ee’s commissions, so 20% each is an even split).

    Or, at least, before you sign up for Binance ask around amongst your friends and see if one of them can refer you.

  130. JCer says:

    Bystander, unfortunately the case has merit. It has nothing to do with election fraud and everything to do with unconstitutional actions by governors, secretary of states and election boards undertook unlawfully. Orange idiot or otherwise sidestepping the legislature on election procedure was unlawful and there should be consequences for those actions. This whole election has been a circus, big orange exhibits behavior totally unbecoming of a president but the democrats openly hostile attitudes towards the law and our constitution is disgusting.

    Had states courts done their jobs it wouldn’t come to this, but the game was always about disregarding the law because by the time it gets sorted the election would be long over. Truth be told votes should be disallowed based on the election laws as written, then tell me the results of the election? Good chance Trump still lost but maybe not. If you cannot identify the ballots in question(i.e you do not have chain of custody on those ballots) those states would need to be tossed.

    Either way the people lost, the democrats purposefully created these issues through their machinations without any regard to the well being of the country to ensure their own political victory….that in and of itself is more despicable than anything the orange moron has done in the last 4 years.

  131. ExEssex says:

    2:16 whatever your concerns about Biden might be they pale in comparison to Trump.

    Worst POTUS ever.

  132. ExEssex says:

    1:52 can’t you just poop in a box now??

  133. Juice Box says:

    Lib – did you say stop then ok keep doing it?


  134. ExEssex says:

    Oooooo risky click

  135. Fabius Maximus says:

    JCer, that case has no merit and will go no further.

    The big irony for me is that Texas is claiming PA’s “departure from the Legislative Scheme for appointing Presidential Electors.” yet the PA GOP are filing separately to do exactly that.

    At some point a lot of the Mortimer Dukes in here have to come to terms with the fact the machines will not be turned back on.

  136. Fabius Maximus says:

    On a side note, forget the alphas, my daughter would run that dog pound.

    She decides over the weekend that she wants to go for the Academies after all. So the application has gone in, Now she has to fight for a spot in the Medical Science school with every other Blue Ribbon doctors kid and aspirational Tiger Mom. If she can ace the test, and get to the interview, I think she is in with a shot. In the grand scheme of things I realize its all #FWP.

  137. leftwing says:

    “JCer, that case has no merit and will go no further.”

    First big question should be if they have standing to proceed.

    If so…it at the very least opens the door to give Congress a backstop to not count electors from those states….it seems that the TX suit may be attacking those States’ certifications to preclude them from Safe Harbor. Still don’t understand the end game though as challenges to electoral slates are thrown to the House and Senate to resolve realtime, and no way they win in the House.

  138. JCer says:

    Fab, I think Trump is finished don’t get me wrong, you aren’t going to overturn the election results with this. But someone must be punished for what happened. We live in the USA not Venezuela, a message needs to be sent that election laws must be followed. If the supreme court decides to hear the case it would be interesting, I doubt they will.

  139. ExEssex says:

    aT lEaSt wE cAn sAy mErRy cHrIsTmAs aGAin….

  140. Bystander says:

    I guess the virtuous Rs were too behind on the election law changes to rig it in their favor. Used to gerrymandering districts which they do well in advance I guess. Better luck next time JCer.

  141. ExEssex says:

    The Supreme Court on Tuesday rejected Republicans’ last-gasp bid to reverse Pennsylvania’s certification of President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in the electoral battleground. The court without comment refused to call into question the the certification process in Pennsylvania by voiding its mail-in ballots. No justice registered a dissent – suggesting that the decision could have been 9-0. Gov. Tom Wolf already has certified Biden’s victory and the state’s 20 electors are to meet on Dec. 14 to cast their votes for Biden. Biden beat President Donald Trump by more than 80,000 votes in Pennsylvania, a state Trump had won in 2016. Most mail-in ballots were submitted by Democrats. Within minutes Donald Trump’s campaign blasted a text appeal to supporters effectively admitting defeat in the courts and saying: ‘Everything Pres. Trump has achieved is on the line on Jan 5′ – the day before Congress meets to certify the Electoral College’s result. The justices’ decision leaves just one Hail Mary for Republicans – a case filed by Texas’ AG Ken Paxton demanding SCOTUS overturn the results in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Georgia, which appeared doomed by the late afternoon ruling on Pennsylvania alone.

  142. Very Stable Genius says:

    After Trump’s Loss in Arizona, State Republicans Hurl Insults at One Another

    A top Republican told the governor to “shut the hell up.” Another official described a lawmaker as a resident of “Crazytown.” All this in a state where the party recently reigned supreme.

    Gov. Doug Ducey of Arizona, a Republican, has made it clear that President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s narrow win over President Trump will stand. Credit…Pool photo by Ross D. Franklin

  143. Fabius Maximus says:

    In honor of the day. 40 years and it still runs deep.

    And you think you’re so clever and classless and free
    But you’re still fcuking peasants as far as I can see

  144. Fabius Maximus says:

    I always said that Roberts would keep SCOTUS out of this. TX can only go forward if Roberts allows it. Todays PA announcement of throwing the case out without any public dissent from a Justice, signals that this is over from a legal point of view.

    The reason they are tyring to get this back in congress is that, it does not go to a House vote, it goes to a delegation vote so WY gets one vote as does CA. GOP control more delegations so that is the last hope.

    What people need to consider here is that are you happy at how the GOP handled this. 49 court cases and they won one on a procedural quirk. All these cases were an embarrassment and were thrown out as such. They looked to find any chink or loophole to exploit, even if it was one vote in question in an overwhelming majority.

    The reality at the moment is that every county in the US is paying LEO overtime to babysit ballots until Donnie concedes and we can put this election in the books. My county’s ballots are sitting the local regional college under 24 hr guard on my taxpayer dime.

    What do these people need to call this election over?

  145. Phoenix says:

    You can’t even begin to imagine the things that fit up there or the stories of how it “accidentally” happened. I don’t understand either, but like so many other things it’s job security for me.
    Next time you need/want an exam get a lady doctor with small fingers, I can get you a referral for one that is the whole package, super smart. I’ll tell her to be gentle to you.

  146. Phoenix says:

    Thanks for the clip. Didn’t see that one. Burr/Carlin are my favorites. If you have Netflix watch the opening line from Anthony Jeselnik Fire in the Maternity Ward.

    Most likely you will watch the whole show. That line sets the tone for the whole video.

  147. Fast Eddie says:

    I’m very curious to know what the WFH future looks like once we get past this pandemic fiasco. As I’ve mentioned, our CEO said we’re not a WFH organization. Now, that was stated months ago but I’m wondering if people are adjusting to this lifestyle. I’m on the fence with it… I like the office dichotomy but also like this flexibility to stumble out of bed, grab coffee and work in leisure. The flexibility also allows for home service visits, doctors appointments, etc. And what will be the result of reduced toll receipts, drastically reduced ridership and businesses that rely on office workers? Is places like lower and midtown Manhattan left for dead?

  148. Libturd says:

    “Either way the people lost, the democrats purposefully created these issues through their machinations without any regard to the well being of the country”

    And this is where your political bias is getting in the way of your ability to think clearly.

    Sorry boss. More votes are better than less votes. With Covid, it made perfect sense to make it easier for people to vote. Heck, all elections should be held this way if it brings out more voters.

    Or are you in support of voter suppression? You really can’t have it both ways JCER.

  149. grim says:

    The shift will be significant, but don’t for one second believe it’s a cost play.

    What we’ve found, and what our clients have found, is there is little to no cost savings. By the time you account for the technology and IT infrastructure, remote support overhead, etc etc – it’s a wash. You read this right, it’s a wash, there is little to no cost savings associated with the real estate. It’s largely just a 1:1 replacement with technology and support overhead. This is especially the case when we’re talking about work that requires a high level of data security and compliance. It costs real money to be able to do this is a secure manner remotely.

    What folks are seeing as benefits, are benefits to recruiting, hiring, and reduced attrition. Performance is better as well. For low level work, it’s becoming paired with shift bid and flex schedule – no more 9-5, think uber.

    We shifted more than 80,000 associates to at-home work for more than 300 clients globally. I know exactly what the f*ck I’m talking about.

  150. Libturd says:

    Our Indian workers are happier than ever too. It’s not just the US.

  151. Fast Eddie says:

    It’s largely just a 1:1 replacement with technology and support overhead.

    Why is there no cost savings associated with real estate. What’s more expensive to operate remotely as opposed to an office location?

  152. Fast Eddie says:

    Our Indian workers are happier than ever too. It’s not just the US.

    They’re expendable, we don’t need them. If I’m WFH permanently, I’ll shift my hours to work until 12:00 midnight or start at 4:00 AM ET. My role is client-facing, btw.

  153. aj says:

    Zillow(Z) stock continues to surge.

  154. Notpumpsupporter says:

    Our CEO wants everyone back as soon as vaccination is widespread deployed..

    So all those who went to boonies, please start looking for either in suburbs OR in the city..

    We are talking about a financial with 150K+ staff

  155. BoomerRemover says:

    it’s not the size of the finger but rather if he lubes up to the knuckle.

  156. chicagofinance says:

    Phoenix: my You Tube algo is going into overdrive…… more for you….

  157. relo says:

    Btw…I have no misconception that the election outcome will be overturned. Just pointing out why I believe it was rigged to some degree.

  158. 3b says:

    Grim : funny I have spoken to several HR people in various corporate industries and they all say they are considering/in the process of expanding and or making WFH permanent precisely because of cost savings. All of their IT tech, secure data centers are located outside of NYC area. So whether they are in the office or at home, makes no difference from a security perspective. As well they tell me that in addition to lease costs there are additional costs involved with an office that are not with WFH. They are saying the exact opposite that dumping or decreasing office space will be a significant savings.

  159. Phoenix says:

    So Chifi,
    Who won the argument? Jane or Dan?

    Some things never change and that goes back to the late 70’s.

    Now the poor little young girls where I work got the outcome I expected and feared. Sure they eliminated the “man” they wanted to, but now a new woman is in his place that can see through what they are doing. Came down on them like a rabid dog.

    They had no idea how good they had it. He cut them slack, was chill. Ok, so a bit to chill for those he favored, but hey, yeah she was super cute and knew how to work him. Not my circus, not my monkey. The way I grew up, snitches got stiches. Well, he did not give them any stitches, but she most certainly will. And the lack of his predecessor’s efficiency is making the whole team work harder.

    Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

  160. Phoenix says:

    Working from home is the “green” option as well. Less travel, less energy wasted. Plus less traffic on the roads.

  161. Fast Eddie says:


    My company and two of friends at other firms said they are back to the office as soon as humanly possible.

  162. Bystander says:


    Jeselnik is probably the most original comedian of last decade. He absolutely dark and twisted but brilliant. His clean cut appearance throws you off. I think it is really hard to be a punchline comedian and remain entertaining for hour plus. He pulls it off. Not everyone’s cup of tea but I catch him whenever I can.

  163. Phoenix says:

    Burr, Jeselnik, Chappelle. All have one thing in common. Willing to fight in order to not be “culture cancelled” by rabid feminists.

  164. spin says:

    Peloton plans to add 1,600 workers in Plano
    DECEMBER 09, 2020
    Peloton will have more than 130,000 square feet of offices in the Legacy Central development in Plano.

    Fitness firm Peloton has confirmed that it will expand its Plano operations four-fold.

    In 2018, The New York-based company leased almost 30,000 square feet of offices in the $300 million Legacy Central mixed-use campus at U.S. Highway 75 and Legacy Drive.

    Now Peloton is adding another 103,750 square feet of space to its Plano employment center. The expansion will allow Peloton to hire up to 1,600 additional employees over five years for the Plano office, which already had hundreds of workers.

    “Our new building at Legacy Central helps our goal to be the best place to work and will be reflective of our collaborative culture,” David Deason, senior vice president of real estate at Peloton, said in a statement. “The new additions to the space include a state-of-the art fitness center, wellness and mothers’ rooms, and the first ever Peloton corporate training hub to make sure we continue to deliver best-in-class experiences for our members.”

    The Legacy Central facility was the company’s first support center outside of its New York City headquarters and provides member support, sales, field operations and other corporate functions.

    The company plans to move into the space next summer.

    “One of the biggest initial draws to the space at Legacy Central was that it gave them the ability to quickly expand when the company was ready to do so,” Baron Aldrine, executive vice president of CBRE, said in a statement. “All of the reasons Peloton initially picked Plano have proven to be a fantastic decision for the company.”

    CBRE’s Aldrine and Michael Conner negotiated the new lease with Nathan Durham and Duane Henley of Transwestern.

    The 85-acre Legacy Central project is being developed by Los Angeles-based Regent Properties. In 2016, Regent Properties purchased Texas Instruments’ former Plano campus with plans to convert it to multiple uses.

    The existing office and research buildings were renovated for tenants including Samsung and Peloton. Hundreds of apartments, as well as restaurants and a parking garage, have also been built on the site.

  165. chicagofinance says:

    Phoenix: more from the algo…..

  166. grim says:

    Why is there no cost savings associated with real estate. What’s more expensive to operate remotely as opposed to an office location?

    Operating remote adds considerable overhead that doesn’t exist working from an office. Keep in mind not everyone is setup with employees that have laptops and freely work across both modalities. Many companies are setup as pure brick and mortar, people aren’t taking equipment home with them.

    Some things that drive significant cost increases.

    IT support – 2-3x
    Cost to ship hardware around.
    VDI/Remote Workspaces
    Two Factor Auth and Biometrics
    Additional software to train remotely
    Additional software to manage remotely
    Collaboration tools
    Telephony over VDI/Workspaces
    New hire training overhead costs
    Additional technology/security software to protect PII data
    Loss of equipment – people quit and don’t return computers – good luck going after this.
    Troubleshooting remote connectivity
    Loss of productivity when additional hardware needs to be sent to remote employees

    It is a wash, there is no cost savings other than geographic labor arbitrage.

  167. Bystander says:

    I don’t know if that is it Phoenix. They never based their comedy on being mass popular to begin with. You get cancelled if you are worried about ticket sales or acting career bc you based to generalities that appeal to both sexes. Not many women are going to like Jeselnik’s material, way too dark. He is not so well known wither. Chappelle had super stardom and walked away it. Being black makes him harder to be dismissed. Burr is too witty, truthful, funny to be dismissed by anyone. When you can get on stage in Philly (where previous comedians were booed off stage), tell the audience to f-off, make fun of sports teams and have them clapping at end..you are king. No one is touching you.

  168. Phoenix says:

    It’s all funny until it isn’t. Burr is funny cause he is pointing out what we all know but don’t do one single thing about it. Not the courts, the police, the judges.

    And then your children get pulled into the mix. And their lives are damaged or destroyed.

    Burr is a pioneer. Very few men are willing to rush head on into that headwind. Cancel culture is a real thing and it’s quite profitable.
    I for one appreciate his efforts. Hopefully some men will finally open their eyes and at least notice that train that is bearing down on them. I mean really almost every new “superhero” in media is a woman. What are little boys to think now? What is their role anymore? And do female teachers treat them differently than they do little girls?

  169. Phoenix says:

    Yeah that Philly rant is so classic. He just beat the crowd into submission.

  170. BRT says:

    The cancelling comes when you make an apology and give them the moral high ground. It’s never enough and they keep coming back for more. The only case I can think of someone surviving this nonsense was Hart when they brought up a tweet and it was maybe the 5th or 6th time after he’s apologized 50 times over where he finally had to tell the stupid anchors, he’s done it multiple times and he’s done.

    Chappelle and Burr can get away with what they do because they are actually funny. Beverly Hills Cop was on TV the other day. There was a friggin disclaimer saying the material in this movie maybe be outdated and offensive to some. We need to stop catering to these people. Unfortunately many view it as a weapon to eliminate their opponents and want it here to stay…until of course, it comes for them.

  171. ExEssex says:

    2:56 you aren’t wrong. Times change though.
    I happen to have a “liberal” sense of humor.

  172. Fast Eddie says:

    I just listened to the Bill Burr/Philly bit. lol! Holy shit! But, Philly is the worst! Their fans pelted Santa Claus with batteries and snow balls at a football game for Ch1sts sake. One of my first jobs out of school was teaching proprietary software to end users. I had to go to Upper Darby and they were the worst!! I needing a drink after walking away from that one. And, like 1diots, we used to go to Eagles/Giants games at the old Vet. Omg, we got pelted with beer and pretzels and verbal abuse. We were lucky to walk away without getting attacked. Philly deserves any misery they can get!! Find the article by Sal Paolantonio who explains why Philly has such a chip on their shoulders.

  173. Fabius Maximus says:


    A lot of what you laid out should already be in place for most firms. If things like DLP and PII are not in place then people need to be fired.

    Items like VPN and phones should be with third party service providers anyway. Who runs their own phone service these days? Its sounds like your clients have not been investing in this area and now need to play catch up. If they don’t see the cost savings straight away, it wont take long to break even. VPN can run on your home computer and you can remote straight to your desktop. My company returned all the expensive handsets they wont be needing for the next six months. Thats a big chunk of change. We still have all the back end services and people are either getting calls on their laptops or forwarded to their cell.

    Don’t worry about equipment returns. Most IT departments wont want it. Aside from the asset depreciation, the disks should be encrypted and you should be able to brick it remotely.

    For most of your clients, tell them to call 1 (800) 553-6387 and cut a check.

  174. Libturd says:

    Philly has a huge New York City complex. Always has. Always will. Boston has a little of that too.

    As for cancel culture. Was watching the Bad News Bears the other day with my son. The team needs a pitcher and the coach suggest his daughter. All of a sudden, the violent (always wants to fight) blonde kid pipes in, “We already have a nigger and two spics. We don’t need a girl too!” This was a big-time kids’ film.

    I’m with Phoenix that we’ve swung a little too far with this crap, especially in the courts. But there still needs to be a place for satire. The loss of the satire that makes fun of stereotypes is what needs to be fixed. The courts can still rule on slander and defamation and all of that garbage when it occurs. But a comedian makes a black or white joke, just laugh it off.

    I think it’s all related to the lack of adversity our kids are raised with today.

    I mentioned the fact I supported the delaying of ice hockey until Covid numbers dropped on the NJ Youth Hockey Forum and I nearly got my head cut off. Of course it was a bunch of Trumpees that didn’t get it and the argument about mental health would always be brought up, so I told one mom to lick a doorknob. The funny thing, her kid most likely caught Covid less than a week after I posted. Karma sucks. I didn’t post that. But, I really wanted to. These Trumpee dads and moms are something else. On one hand, they love to play the bully. On the other hand, their kids are treated more delicately than snowflakes.

  175. BRT says:

    The high school classes hit peak snowflake 5 years ago IMO. The kids the past 3 to 4 years have a lot more grit than what I saw 5 years ago.

  176. No One says:

    BRT, I guess John Rocker was right about NY subways after all.

    I just caught onto Burr last year. Not 100% convinced it’s really him or it’s mostly an act.
    Adam Carolla is really like that. His books are amusing, and have some good, harsh advice about the death of masculinity. In 20 more years both will be sent to re-education camp.
    Even South Park eventually got neutered by the sjw nazis that run Comedy Central about 7-8 yrs ago. Roughly timed with the arrival of “PC Principal” which I took as a metaphor.

  177. Fast Eddie says:

    Philly could have had the financial and political power. The city elite tuned out, fixed their blinders so, the financial power went to NYC and political power to DC. Boston seems to embrace and admire their identity… they’re proud of it and who they are and have far less disdain for NYC than the Philly crowd. Philly is beyond the unwanted, red-headed step child syndrome.

  178. No One says:

    Second comment on video games in mod, I have no clue why.

  179. chicagofinance says:

    In my son’s middle school there are 4 math teachers that are all female. Two are okay, although one of the two has a bad personality and the other, while fair, still heavily identifies with the girls in the class. The other two are misandrists (good word…. equivalent of misogynists). They are mean spirited and frankly evil to the boys in the class, with assigning work at purposely inconvenient times, creating exams and quizes with pointless land mines, and grading in an arbitrary and capricious manner, and inconsistently across the sexes. My son just said to me today that he loved math entering middle school, and now 2+ years in, he has had enough, and never wants to follow the subject more that will be the base level requirements for other subject.

    What a tragedy!

    Phoenix says:
    December 9, 2020 at 2:48 pm
    Chi, And do female teachers treat them differently than they do little girls?

  180. chicagofinance says:

    Just to be clear….. I had a 790 Math SAT, so it’s not as if I cannot evaluate this objectively.

  181. 3b says:

    Grim: You of course no more on the topic then I do, but people I know in the middle of it say the opposite. We shall see how it turns out. We are supposed to return to the office at some point, certainly not soon. And they have added to the sentence when we return to the office the line and in what fashion. We were already 2 days a week and have already been told that will be increasing.

    I like WFH, work is work, whether here or in the office. But home is much more comfortable and no distractions.

  182. 3b says:

    There is nothing worse than a bad math teacher. My Daughter had some awful ones in HS. We got her a tutor. Math genius and normal. Not always the case with math teachers.

  183. BRT says:

    I ran into my fair share of bad app1e teachers in schoo1. Some of them were tru1y awfu1 individua1s. You gotta cherish the ones that do the opposite. My math teacher in 7th grade, for whatever reason, hated my guts. He said there was zero chance I get recommended for A1gebra. I was annoyed at that and my mother got him to commit that if I got a l00 on every test, he wou1d have to recommend me. We11, 6 months 1ater, I did, and he didn’t. What an aho1e. My parents made enough noise to get me in but the 8th grade teacher was fed a bunch of crap about me from the 7th grade teacher. The 8th grade teacher 1ooked at me with disdain and open1y joked in front of the c1ass about moving me down a 1eve1. By the end of the 1st marking period, whi1e everyone was doing work, I purpose1y went up to him and asked him to review my test grades so that I cou1d “ca1cu1ate my grade”. 5 l00’s. I sarcastica11y went back and said…”so that averages out to an Ap1us I guess”. He ended up respecting me in the end. Moving into high schoo1, I had the same teacher for trig/ca1cu1us. Easi1y one of the best teachers I’ve ever met and I base a 1ot of my own instruction now off his methods and demeanor.

  184. BRT says:

    I have a simi1ar story…not from individua1 teachers but from approach. My son’s e1ementary schoo1 constant1y touts “women in science”. They had an assemb1y on it and basica11y brainwashed my son into thinking science was for gir1s. My wife…who ho1ds mu1tip1e degrees in science, ironica11y a woman in science, had to unwire that nonsense out of his head.

  185. leftwing says:

    “Sorry boss. More votes are better than less votes.”

    100% disagree.

    Or are you in support of voter suppression? You really can’t have it both ways…”

    I am in support of more qualified votes.

    Over the longer scope of our history the pendulum has swung far toward universal absolute suffrage. We should be in the last innings of that game.

    Some changes were needed – voting rights for blacks and women. Until 1971 (26th Amendment) one had to be 21 years of age to vote.

    A few barriers still exist – felons, illegal immigrants – although the Left continues to chip away at those.

    It is a simple ethical, moral, and societal organization question….

    For example, should the vote of an emotionally disturbed (but sane) jobless urine soaked homeless addict who places nothing but financial strain on society and has not contributed in any matter weigh equally as your vote?

    You suggested someone was showing political bias in a statement…I would suggest your use of “suppression” is likewise a politically biased term. To be suppressed one needs to first have the right.

    Factually, we currently expressly limit that right for certain classes of people. I simply acknowledge we put limits and then ask have we drawn the line in the correct place?

    My view, we should tighten it. Landowners? Taxpayers? Either? Both?

    Following your logic absolute suffrage is the only conclusion which is chaos. If you acknowledge any limit, the question must be debated have we placed the limits at the correct thresholds.

  186. leftwing says:

    Fabs, vote by delegation occurs to determine a winner if the Electoral College cannot produce a winner. Senate votes for President, House for VP. If Senate cannot settle on a President, and House votes VP, that person is sworn in as President. If neither Senate nor House can produce a winner then the current House Speaker assumes the Presidency.

    Before we go to that delegation vote for President the Electoral College must be a hung vote. The pathway there is to void electoral slates of the States. That is done by objection, requiring one House member and one Senator to support. Upon the objection the chambers break, debate separately, and vote separately. A prerequisite is that those electors votes were not “lawfully certified”, ie. the Safe Harbor.

    So….again, I see no endgame. Whoever is driving this action – and rank and file Republicans would be crazy to sign on – even if they ‘win’ and have a ruling that the four states’ electoral slates were not “lawfully certified” they will get stuffed when an objection is debated and voted.

  187. Phoenix says:

    Teachers (adults) can make or break a children’s future. You should not be there just for the check. But so many are.

    The good ones are priceless and worth every penny. The bad ones are absolute nightmares.

    As far as Burr, I think he is for real. Like Carlin he is a master at dealing with hypocrites. What I like about him is that he calls out the bad actor men as well. He appears genuine to me.

  188. Phoenix says:

    It’s a known fact more women are graduating college then men. Every college has a “womens center,” but no mens center. Why is that? What about boys that come from bad families or have problems. Just told to “man up and grow a pair” but no place for them to get help.

    The system is truly lopsided against men and boys and this will widen the divide between the genders.

  189. leftwing says:

    I can’t comment on annual PP&E, infrastructure, and the sort but…I have to imagine some of the WFH enthusiasm from corporates is that it gives them the opportunity for a very cheap reset.

    Corporate actions that would have taken some time and immense effort to clear can be easily done under the cover of COVID and a WFH restart.

    We’d normally terminate 6-9% of the workforce annually based on performance. We could have easily done another 5-10% but going that far started to beg for issues….

    Now? All those underperforming individuals that just squeaked under the bar, gone. Useless divisions and corporate offices? Gone. Why did they still exist pre-COVID? Nobody knows. Inertia. Sacred cows. Save face for the hiring manager who wildly fcuked up. Who cares.

    In finance it used to take a good, hard bear market for that type of housecleaning. Sharp downturn and the corporate excesses and underperformers could get whacked without issues. WFH is a big bear market reset for commercial America.

  190. grim says:

    Its sounds like your clients have not been investing in this area and now need to play catch up. If they don’t see the cost savings straight away, it wont take long to break even.

    My clients are the Fortune 500.

  191. grim says:

    left – yep

    became really clear who was important, and who was not

  192. No One says:

    I noticed that in 2008-9 US industrial companies found costs to cut that ended up leaving their margins higher for many years after 2011 or so when revenues recovered.

  193. ExEssex says:

    (CNN)All 50 states and the District of Columbia have now certified their presidential results, according to CNN’s tally, as the Electoral College process moves forward with the meeting of electors on Monday.

    West Virginia became the final state to certify its presidential election results Wednesday, formally declaring that President Donald Trump is entitled to the state’s five
    President-elect Joe Biden is projected to win 306 electoral votes, and Trump is projected to win 232. It takes 270 electoral votes of the 538 available to become president.
    The states’ certifications come as Trump has baselessly claimed that the election was rigged and sowed doubt about the outcome of the presidential race. Dozens of lawsuits challenging the results have been dismissed at the state and federal levels across the country since the November election.

  194. No One says:

    I notice Fang Fang was really fond of long pearl necklaces.
    There’s now more evidence against Swallowell than there ever was about Putin controlling Trump. Will SNL run skits about him being controlled by Chinese honeys? Let alone major media “journalists” investigate beyond repeating his talking points?

  195. ExEssex says:

    4:37 very unforgiving “Math” –

  196. Fabius Maximus says:


    A few points about your rant.

    First off, I will always take what my kid says with a degree of skepticism. You getting one viewpoint on the situation. While your kid may be an angel, what the other boys are doing in the class will get him guilt by association.

    Are “assigning work at purposely inconvenient times,” and
    “creating exams and quizzes with pointless land mines” triggered by the Y Chromosome. Are these gender specific work and quizzes or are the girls getting hit with this equally.

    It is hard to grade Math in an arbitrary and capricious manner. Math is exact. You do it right you get the points. Leave a unit off, you will be docked. Don’t show your work again, you lose points. When you get it wrong the teacher can give you some leeway with show your work. ATEOTD, you can ask for the Rubric and where they lost points. I had bite my tougue and swallow a B+ for my kid. I get the teacher is doing their best, and thats just the breaks. Going nuclear is not going to help me down the line.

    “They are mean spirited and frankly evil to the boys in the class.” Who would want to teach 13/14yo boys. They are a mess. Last thing you want to have to deal with is a kid doing a Giuliani at the back of the classroom. Remember this classic. Slightly NSFW.

  197. Fabius Maximus says:


    What does Fortune 500 have to do with it? A lot of them are the examples for underinvestment. Go into your clients stores look at the POS register and you can usually tell how well their IT is. My favorite was always the Sears IBMs with the disconnected modem and router hanging off the back.

    Supporting Green Screens and fanfold will cost.

  198. Fabius Maximus says:

    BRT would be interested in your wife’s views on Rosalind Franklin in light of this issue.

  199. BRT says:

    She probably doesn’t know enough and neither do I

  200. Juice Box says:

    Interesting stuff on Covid infection treatment.

    Ivermectin already FDA approved….seems is a “miracle”

    Passionate doctor testifying…


  201. Fabius Maximus says:


    She’s worth the research. Short answer is: the dudes stole her research and won a Noble with it.

    For the women in Science I know, having your work stolen ranks way above 70c on the dollar.

  202. Juice Box says:

    Grim – nice list.

    Most companies have had remote and have adjusted at a cost.

    Any How think about the ANGER of coming back…..

    I have heard ANGER about any idea NOW HAVING TO LEAVE THE room/basement office….

    force me back?

    How do we make money folks?

  203. BRT says:

    Teachers assign work at all kinds of stupid times. There are a ton of teachers that try to assign homework at 8pm and say it’s due tomorrow. They’ll tell the kids, guess what, we are doing a test tomorrow. 24 hours notice. Some of them will absolutely play favorites.

    As far as grading math goes, just because it should be impartial, doesn’t mean it is. I’ve seen a ton of math teachers not give credit because they didn’t do it the “the way I taught you”. Sometimes, they are just being jerks. Other times, they aren’t intelligent enough to know the other way. Whenever I’m giving partial credit, I have a voice in the back of my head telling me in the back of my head to give them another point just because they are a good kid…or the opposite. I generally resist the urge. I seriously doubt some of my colleagues are as disciplined.

    This is what makes my job easy. All I gotta do is be fair, give advanced notice, not overburden them, and be logical. They fall right in line.

  204. njtownhomer says:

    I agree with the brilliant list Grim put together.

    But on another angle, if your work could be easily transferred/moved out, or not so essential to remain in office, WFH will stay for those. The added value of the office is minimal, you may use the labor arbitrage to a reduced cost base. Hiring and firing will be easier as non-locals would become instantly eligible. Greater availability to find online.

    If the work needs true hands-on skills, especially benefiting from a brainstorming, or collab settings, or face-time, and if the work demands at least some innovation I think continuing WFH will cause lost market share, efficiency and profitability. I am not sure for all the Fortune500 companies, but clearly office setup for some will be preferred for some.

  205. grim says:

    5 of the Fortune Top 10 are our clients. Just a rough glance, at least 25-30 of the Fortune 100.

  206. grim says:

    What Fab doesn’t realize is that his viewpoint is biased by his position. Of course there is no issue when we’re talking about senior management and executive ranks at HQ.

    I’m talking about the frontline employees, not management.

    These are employees that don’t have offices, are not assigned laptops, do not have VPN accounts, might not even have a dedicated workspace in the brick and mortar. They might not even have email addresses. These are employees that frankly, can’t be trusted to hold mass quantity of company data on a remote device without an incredible amount of supervision, these are situations where the potential for fraud is astronomical. In the brick and mortar, their every move is monitored, restricted, logged and audited. How to do this at home?

    There is massive implication for customer perception. How would you feel applying for a mortgage, with all of that scrutiny on personal information, knowing the person you are giving all of that data to, is in their living room? What about talking with your bank, or credit card number, and realize that there is basically nothing stopping that associate from writing down your name, phone number, address, credit card details, and anything else they care to steal.

    It comes down to something as simple as, how do you even ensure the person logging into to do the job is even the employee? Two factor don’t fix this. Want to laugh? This was a problem in one of the big banks, where a remote employee was using his wife, and older son, to cover a full time job + OT. He actually had more than one full time work-at-home job. They did pretty well with that. So now they deployed webcams, facial recognition software, and a new employee that manually verifies the accuracy of the logins. Huge cost, additional $250,000 a year. When the webcam has an issue, the employee sits around for two days getting paid, doing nothing. Then, a few more days later, the entire employee population knows they can get a paid day off by screwing up their camera.

  207. grim says:

    For a typical work group of 100 or so people. The additional overhead will easily pay for the full all-in costs of leasing an office building in Parsippany.

  208. 3b says:

    No surprise rents are dropping in San Francisco, I am sure NYC will be the same. Rents/ house prices were not sustainable. Ultimately it will be a good thing for these cities a well needed reset.

  209. Phoenix says:

    Interesting-homeland security. Overloading with false paperwork. When it happens to a public official by a layperson, it’s terrorism. When an attorney does it to a layperson, it’s a tactic.


  210. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    The people who told us trump was a Russian agent, kavanaugh participated in gang r@pes, hunter Biden’s kickbacks were misinformation, and Biden had a 17 point lead in Wisconsin now want us to believe there was no widespread illegal voting because they say so.

    Sure, whatever you say.

  211. BRT says:

    When the webcam has an issue, the employee sits around for two days getting paid, doing nothing. Then, a few more days later, the entire employee population knows they can get a paid day off by screwing up their camera.

    Students were trying out this excuse early on. After about the second time they tried that, I got sick of it. Gave an easy question for credit at the end of every class. If you missed it, oh well. Had one kid who legitimately lost power but wanted credit. He hopped on a bike, rode 3 blocks down and pops up in the meeting at another classmates house.

  212. Phoenix says:

    “President-elect Joe Biden insisted Wednesday he is ‘proud’ of Hunter after federal prosecutors publicly launched a probe into his son’s taxes.”

    Pure psychos running the asylum. First one, now another.

  213. 30 year realtor says:


    Trump has found his calling, performance art. He tells lies to the ignorant and they send him money. How much have you sent him?

  214. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    Companies will decentralize where they can.

    But ultimately they will try to limit wfh. It gives too much leverage to the employee and they hate that.

    I’m still massively bearish on nyc for a decade or two. Huge psychological headwinds.

  215. Anon says:

    FWIW my company will not be renewing leases on several NYC office spaces and will be transitioning several thousand employees to a hybrid arrangement (hoteling/hot desk setup in the Manhattan HQ). The expectation is that you will report to the mothership as needed, no excuses. The value proposition and IT infrastructure to facilitate this transition was already mostly in place – Covid just accelerated it.

    I think this is the scenario many here are talking about.

  216. BidenIsTheGOAT says:

    I’m all for the lawsuits. 100%. The more the merrier. Onerturn the POS.

    Call the self appointed Kong’s across the country to account for rigging the election.

    Side benefit is it undermines Biden’s legitimacy the same way the left did with the fabricated Russia hoax. It all comes home to roost.

  217. BRT says:


    She’s worth the research. Short answer is: the dudes stole her research and won a Noble with it.

    For the women in Science I know, having your work stolen ranks way above 70c on the dollar.

    The only way to protect yourself is to actively publish. I’ve watched guys get scooped all the time in academia. Women were treated bad by the science community and probably other professional workplaces in general back then. That ship has long sailed and anyone who claims otherwise has an agenda and is likely a beneficiary of that agenda. The majority of them receive exclusive fellowships now just for signing up. In grad school, most of the guys were paid $18k stipend, most of the girls were paid $35k. We had to teach classes while most of them didn’t. If a guy was screwing up in the lab, he failed out of school. If a girl screwed up in a lab, they would find another one for her and push her through the program. Now…this happened to some guys as well. If a guy obtained an exclusive fellowship and was a screw up, they would push him through the program as well just to make the fellowship look like a success. But it happened much more on one side of the spectrum.

    Another thing to note is that back in the day, they used to tell girls to use their initials when publishing so readers would think they were a guy. Now they tell the girls when they get married they should still publish under their maiden name or not change their last name at all.

  218. Phoenix says:

    Murphy finally got it right this week.

  219. BRT says:

    lol Salt Bae. Guy is a genius. Makes millions of dollars by sprinkling salt. Murphy spends millions of dollars by sprinkling salt.

  220. joyce says:

    Is that drug being used at all right now in the US?

    Juice Box says:
    December 9, 2020 at 10:10 pm
    Interesting stuff on Covid infection treatment.

    Ivermectin already FDA approved….seems is a “miracle”

  221. BRT says:

    Rutgers is currently running a trial where they are monitoring viral load of newly infected patients by treating them with a series of broad spectrum antivirals (one of them being HCQ). Basically, attacking viral replication mechanisms at every which way to slow it down enough for your body to dismantle it quickly. A kitchen sink approach if you will.

  222. BRT says:

    There is a widespread disinformation campaign to discourage the use of cheap broad spectrum antivirals. You shouldn’t be surprised by this. Big Pharma has always worked this way. The thing that is discouraging is they use scientifically ignorant media pundits to peddle their messages. The idea that broad spectrum anti-virals would have effect on the viral load if administered early is completely valid. Yet the too many at the top of discouraged their use while the media seems to think, this virus is so unique that drugs that attack viral replication mechanisms don’t work on this one.

  223. Juice Box says:

    Ivermectin – is not approved for Covid treatment in the US, it works apparently and is being studied.

    Here is another interview, with Dr. Pierre Kory, very impassioned about it..


    Here is the study.


  224. Juice Box says:

    Other studies on Ivermectin done around the world. Egypt, India, Iraq, Peru,Bangladesh and others.


  225. Juice Box says:

    Phoenix – The Delaware Grand Jury looking into Hunter Biden was “paused” so it did not affect the election?

    Trump should just pardon Hunter Biden now, as a favor to Joe so he does not have to do it himself.

  226. BRT says:

    Decent interview. Funny part of the interview was that he said he really hesitates in letting people know this but you can get the less pure form for animals from stores.

  227. chicagofinance says:

    Phoenix: the algo gives again…… this appears to be a stand up in a small Philly comedy club from 2002 based on the content and references in the set. This is amazing…..especially with the riffing after being heckled….. still works in 2020.

    I queued up the Phoenix chewy comestibles for you……

  228. chicagofinance says:

    Here is Burr’s idea for a book…

  229. grim says:

    Watching the FDA approval meeting.

    Doesn’t inspire confidence in the FDA.

  230. Hold my beer says:

    Proposal moms should get $2,400 a month.


    I can just picture Fast Eddie’s and Phoenix’s blood pressure increasing as they read the article.

  231. Crushednjmillenial says:

    No Hunter Biden story on webpage of NYTimes right now.

    I’ve had cnn on in the background for 20 mins and no mention of Hunter.

    The President-Elect’s son is under criminal investigation for activities related to receipt of money from overseas operatives, especially from the operatives of the top US geopolitical rival/foe. The left wing media response to this is plainly ridiculous.

  232. Phoenix says:

    Hmb, send that article to Bill Burr. He’ll handle that.

  233. Juice Box says:

    Re: FDA approval meeting

    Voted for emergency use approval. There were four no votes.

  234. Juice Box says:

    So one of the NO votes was Dr Archana Chatterjee apparently she and a few others want the age raised from 16 to 18 to get the vaccine.

    So looks like no kids will be getting it. Will school ever be allowed to open? There are around 50 million kids under the age of 16 in this country.

  235. Fabius Maximus says:


    Bingo. The world is changing and yes when I get back to the office, I suspect I’ll find my belonging in a box and my space labeled as “General Use.”

  236. Fabius Maximus says:


    What I don’t think you realize is that you are in part of my wheelhouse here. I do a lot of work with the likes of that big blue building around the corner from your booze shop.

    “Hold(ing) mass quantity of company data on a remote device” see my previous comments on DLP and PII and start the firings. Again there is no need for it and if there is it shows the under investment in the space.

    As for talking to someone at home. It happens to me all the time, from my mortgage servicer through my Disney bookings. If you can do medical billing from home, requiring HIPPA compliance, any other business should not have an excuse.

    Remember a few weeks ago, where Microsoft announced they could do productivity tracking. The privacy groups were up in arms. But with employment at will, a lot of companies will just turn it on. As with the kids in the class, after the first few firings, people tend to become compliant.

    As for your building in Parsippany, as today is Dec 10th, I think you can plan your ribbon cutting for Valentines Day.

    Two months and you are still in the same place with the same problems. Call Cisco and you can be well on your way with “as a Service” as an OpEX model with very little capital outlay.

    You said a while back that companies should be using this time to build the DeathStar. This is just part of that process.

  237. ExEssex says:

    Happy Hanukkah ya’ll.

  238. AlexRussian says:

    Any small town in Russia. More than 300 miles away from Moscow Livable. Houses, apartments are free now. Just saying.

    Show me “a livable” area anywhere in the world where real estate has not gone up in 30 years. That’s why it’s a no brainer long term store of wealth. Short-term, it can get dangerous if you bought high, but long term it’s a no brainer investment.

  239. grim says:

    “Hold(ing) mass quantity of company data on a remote device” see my previous comments on DLP and PII and start the firings. Again there is no need for it and if there is it shows the under investment in the space.

    We can talk shop about large banks whose PCI compliance is completely laughable.

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